Abortion

[Wolfwoman]

Here’s a news article about at least two women who died in Georgia after Roe v Wade was overturned and Georgia instituted a ban on abortions after 6 weeks gestation.

https://www.propublica.org/article/geor ... rman-death


Why didn’t doctors perform the D&C for her?
Were D&Cs really not done prior to Roe v Wade?!

It seems like medical neglect to me or malpractice or something along those lines.

What is wrong with doing a D&C on a woman when the fetus is already dead?! This woman had some fetal tissue remaining in her uterus and died of sepsis because they were too afraid to do a D&C. They are doctors. Surely they know that some remaining fetal tissue isn’t going to magically grow back into a living fetus. Were they really afraid that they’d get prosecuted for performing an abortion when the fetus had already died and they were trying to save the life of the woman?!

[captainfearnot]

Found a good article that explains what's going on:

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-polic ... ancy-loss/

To answer your question, yes. Doctors really are afraid that they will be prosecuted for performing D&C, D&X, or D&E to manage miscarriages and stillbirths, because even though they understand perfectly that these are not abortions, the procedures are the same and in some states the laws don't differentiate between them.

[Bronco73idi]

Here’s a news article about at least two women who died in Georgia after Roe v Wade was overturned and Georgia instituted a ban on abortions after 6 weeks gestation.

https://www.propublica.org/article/geor ... rman-death


Why didn’t doctors perform the D&C for her?
Were D&Cs really not done prior to Roe v Wade?!

It seems like medical neglect to me or malpractice or something along those lines.

What is wrong with doing a D&C on a woman when the fetus is already dead?! This woman had some fetal tissue remaining in her uterus and died of sepsis because they were too afraid to do a D&C. They are doctors. Surely they know that some remaining fetal tissue isn’t going to magically grow back into a living fetus. Were they really afraid that they’d get prosecuted for performing an abortion when the fetus had already died and they were trying to save the life of the woman?!

Doctors are not doctors anymore, they are glorified nurses who have to look at what the book says or they might lose their livelihood.

[farmerchick]

After doing a bit of research in the Georgia heartbeat law. There are exceptions for the life of the mother, incest and rape. There is also a lawsuit that has been brought to clarify the law. As it stands though physicians have the final say if the mothers life is in danger...so why are women denied a d&c? Maybe so the law incenses everyone In the state to overturn the heartbeat law.

[Wolfwoman]

Well it pisses me off to no end. No wonder even conservative states are passing pro choice legislation.
I don’t think there are any pro life people who think a woman experiencing a miscarriage should die just because her fetus died. Seriously, what the Hell.

And if I was that woman’s family, I’d be suing the doctors for not doing what was needed to try to save her life WHEN THE BABY WAS ALREADY DEAD.
Let it play out in court. Who cares if the jury are not doctors? Juries have to try cases in things that they’re not experts in all the time. You bring in your expert witnesses and let them explain to the jury the medical side of it. Then you let the jury decide. I think the doctors in the case mentioned in Georgia do not have the law on their side.

Edit to add: If I was a doctor in that situation in Georgia, I would have absolutely done what was required to save the woman. My conscience would not have allowed me to do otherwise. And if someone (I’m not sure WHO?!) wanted to prosecute me, I’d say bring it on and defend myself in court.

[Wolfwoman]

Here’s more info on the OP:

She was pregnant with twins and wanted to abort them. She was already a single mom to a little boy.

She sort of had access to abortion. Not in Georgia, but in North Carolina. She scheduled a surgical abortion there, but ran into traffic on her way there and the abortion center was apparently completely booked, so they couldn’t hold her spot. So they gave her abortion meds to take instead.

She used the abortion meds, and was told to go to the ER if she had complications. Well apparently she did have complications, but did not go to the ER until a week or more later. By that time she was in bad shape already and would die 20 hours later.

At the hospital, for some unknown reason, the doctors delayed the D&C and then her heart stopped on the operating table when they finally did try to do the surgery.

So the blame for her death could be placed on her for getting an abortion and not seeking care soon enough when she had problems, or on the doctors for not giving adequate and timely medical care. A tragic case either way.

[Wolfwoman]

New discussion somewhat related to abortion:

Women who did drugs while pregnant and then the fetus died, have been prosecuted and convicted of child abuse/neglect and given prison time - even up to 20 years!! That is bonkers!! Sometimes women don’t even know they’re pregnant! They could be charged with drug use, but charged with child abuse for having a stillborn baby?! That is crazy and wrong.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022 ... -to-prison

[Bronco73idi]

New discussion somewhat related to abortion:

Women who did drugs while pregnant and then the fetus died, have been prosecuted and convicted of child abuse/neglect and given prison time - even up to 20 years!! That is bonkers!! Sometimes women don’t even know they’re pregnant! They could be charged with drug use, but charged with child abuse for having a stillborn baby?! That is crazy and wrong.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022 ... -to-prison

Let’s take the laws of the beast out of this discussion.

If a woman dies because of a miscarriage or stillbirth she will be blessed. It is sad for the living and hard for whoever she left behind.

Soon millions will die and it won’t be for a noble cause like bearing a child.

I just read what happened to the original lady in your discussion. She is damned…..

[Wolfwoman]

More stories of pregnant women not receiving adequate medical care.

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/11/01 ... an-emtala/

It seems to me there is a fairly big problem of having bad doctors out there. Like the dr. in the Dr. Death podcast/show. And it can be hard for them to be prosecuted or for their medical license to be taken away.

[OCDMOM]

Here’s a news article about at least two women who died in Georgia after Roe v Wade was overturned and Georgia instituted a ban on abortions after 6 weeks gestation.

https://www.propublica.org/article/geor ... rman-death


Why didn’t doctors perform the D&C for her?
Were D&Cs really not done prior to Roe v Wade?!

It seems like medical neglect to me or malpractice or something along those lines.

What is wrong with doing a D&C on a woman when the fetus is already dead?! This woman had some fetal tissue remaining in her uterus and died of sepsis because they were too afraid to do a D&C. They are doctors. Surely they know that some remaining fetal tissue isn’t going to magically grow back into a living fetus. Were they really afraid that they’d get prosecuted for performing an abortion when the fetus had already died and they were trying to save the life of the woman?!

Texas had a case and the Dr. was in error. The Dr. is allowed to give the patient the standard of care. The Dr.'s do not understand the law.

[Wolfwoman]

Here’s a news article about at least two women who died in Georgia after Roe v Wade was overturned and Georgia instituted a ban on abortions after 6 weeks gestation.

https://www.propublica.org/article/geor ... rman-death


Why didn’t doctors perform the D&C for her?
Were D&Cs really not done prior to Roe v Wade?!

It seems like medical neglect to me or malpractice or something along those lines.

What is wrong with doing a D&C on a woman when the fetus is already dead?! This woman had some fetal tissue remaining in her uterus and died of sepsis because they were too afraid to do a D&C. They are doctors. Surely they know that some remaining fetal tissue isn’t going to magically grow back into a living fetus. Were they really afraid that they’d get prosecuted for performing an abortion when the fetus had already died and they were trying to save the life of the woman?!

Texas had a case and the Dr. was in error. The Dr. is allowed to give the patient the standard of care. The Dr.'s do not understand the law.

Yes, agreed. Also according to the article from the Texas Tribune that I linked above, there is a literal threat of doctors being prosecuted by the Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton. According to the article:

“Last year, he sent a letter threatening to prosecute a doctor who had received court approval to provide an emergency abortion for a Dallas woman. He insisted that the doctor and her patient had not proven how, precisely, the patient’s condition threatened her life.”

Utterly ridiculous. Go find some real criminals, Ken.

[nightlight]

Here’s more info on the OP:

She was pregnant with twins and wanted to abort them. She was already a single mom to a little boy.

She sort of had access to abortion. Not in Georgia, but in North Carolina. She scheduled a surgical abortion there, but ran into traffic on her way there and the abortion center was apparently completely booked, so they couldn’t hold her spot. So they gave her abortion meds to take instead.

She used the abortion meds, and was told to go to the ER if she had complications. Well apparently she did have complications, but did not go to the ER until a week or more later. By that time she was in bad shape already and would die 20 hours later.

At the hospital, for some unknown reason, the doctors delayed the D&C and then her heart stopped on the operating table when they finally did try to do the surgery.

So the blame for her death could be placed on her for getting an abortion and not seeking care soon enough when she had problems, or on the doctors for not giving adequate and timely medical care. A tragic case either way.

she died trying to murder her children.

Let's be real

[Wolfwoman]

Here’s more info on the OP:

She was pregnant with twins and wanted to abort them. She was already a single mom to a little boy.

She sort of had access to abortion. Not in Georgia, but in North Carolina. She scheduled a surgical abortion there, but ran into traffic on her way there and the abortion center was apparently completely booked, so they couldn’t hold her spot. So they gave her abortion meds to take instead.

She used the abortion meds, and was told to go to the ER if she had complications. Well apparently she did have complications, but did not go to the ER until a week or more later. By that time she was in bad shape already and would die 20 hours later.

At the hospital, for some unknown reason, the doctors delayed the D&C and then her heart stopped on the operating table when they finally did try to do the surgery.

So the blame for her death could be placed on her for getting an abortion and not seeking care soon enough when she had problems, or on the doctors for not giving adequate and timely medical care. A tragic case either way.

she died trying to murder her children.

Let's be real

It’s true, but if she presented to the emergency room and didn’t confess her crime, and the ER only saw a lady with a dead fetus inside of her developing sepsis, then why did they not try to help her? The story from Texas that I shared today was of an extremely pro life young lady who also died of sepsis from not receiving adequate medical care. She wasn’t trying to kill her baby, unlike the first story.

[gkearney]

It will be interesting to watch what all the abortion released ballot measures in states like Missouri, Florida and Iowa may or may not impact the presidential race. Support of abortion restrictions, when they have made it to the voting public, have consistently failed even in conservative states like Kansas and Kentucky. Will these issues play out in other down ballot issues? Who knows?

[Momma J]

I am 100% against abortion. It is murder. This has been a debate in our house as I would not get an abortion even if I had been raped or my very life was in danger.

It a personal stand of mine. My husband is grateful that we never had to make the decision as it would have broken his heart to lose me if I decided to carry term and lost my life. But he did understand my view.

That being said.... Each and every person will need to decide where they personally are willing to draw the line.

I will not debate anyone on my stand. It is mine alone.

Side note: Back in 2008 I convinced a large room full of Black Democrats to change their vote away from Obama with the simple message: Now is as good of time as any for our nation to elect a black person for president. Yet, I cannot vote for Barack Obama as I will never, in good conscious, support any individual who is pro-abortion.

I thought I would be booed out of the building, but two pastors rose and approached me. They reverently took over the floor and reiterated my statement in a more eloquent manner. One of the men in attendance is my brother-in-law who began preaching and to this day is a staunch pro-life pastor. He has thanked me many times over. (He was once a member of the Black Panthers)

I do not know what gave me the courage to stand that day. Hopefully lives have been saved or at least changed.

[Wolfwoman]

It will be interesting to watch what all the abortion released ballot measures in states like Missouri, Florida and Iowa may or may not impact the presidential race. Support of abortion restrictions, when they have made it to the voting public, have consistently failed even in conservative states like Kansas and Kentucky. Will these issues play out in other down ballot issues? Who knows?

It’s also on the ballot in Arizona (for a constitutional amendment). I’ve heard 10 states have it on the ballot.

[Wolfwoman]

More stories of pregnant women not receiving adequate medical care.

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/11/01 ... an-emtala/

It seems to me there is a fairly big problem of having bad doctors out there. Like the dr. in the Dr. Death podcast/show. And it can be hard for them to be prosecuted or for their medical license to be taken away.

I wondered about the fact that the baby still had a heartbeat, but the lady was in sepsis. I was told that it’s not unheard of to get sepsis during a pregnancy and then the sepsis starts to cause a miscarriage - and kill the mother. Typically the best treatment is not to abort the baby, but to keep the pregnancy and treat the sepsis. Doctors killed this woman by not admitting her to the hospital and treating the sepsis.

[OCDMOM]

I guess some guy on T V walked out crying that is Daughter will be able to kill his grandchildren. VIA abortion.

[Wolfwoman]

I guess some guy on T V walked out crying that is Daughter will be able to kill his grandchildren. VIA abortion.

Yeah, it’s ridiculous.

[Wolfwoman]

It will be interesting to watch what all the abortion released ballot measures in states like Missouri, Florida and Iowa may or may not impact the presidential race. Support of abortion restrictions, when they have made it to the voting public, have consistently failed even in conservative states like Kansas and Kentucky. Will these issues play out in other down ballot issues? Who knows?

I heard that there were 10 states with abortion measures on the ballot.
I know Florida’s did not pass.
Arizona’s passed.
Missouri’s passed.

Anyone heard anything about the other states?

It’s sad because Arizona already had legalized abortions up to 15 weeks and legal after that for medical emergencies, etc. It wasn’t good enough for people, or they are uneducated about it.

[Durzan]

These are the kinds of situations that more or less shifted me to be more pro-choice tbh.

[Wolfwoman]

These are the kinds of situations that more or less shifted me to be more pro-choice tbh.

Yeah, I can definitely see some nuance for sure. It’s not black and white for me. I think elective abortion of a healthy baby and healthy pregnancy is despicable though.

[Luke]

These are the kinds of situations that more or less shifted me to be more pro-choice tbh.

Yeah, I can definitely see some nuance for sure. It’s not black and white for me. I think elective abortion of a healthy baby and healthy pregnancy is despicable though.

What makes it less despicable in other circumstances?

[Durzan]

These are the kinds of situations that more or less shifted me to be more pro-choice tbh.

Yeah, I can definitely see some nuance for sure. It’s not black and white for me. I think elective abortion of a healthy baby and healthy pregnancy is despicable though.

Same here.

[Wolfwoman]

These are the kinds of situations that more or less shifted me to be more pro-choice tbh.

Yeah, I can definitely see some nuance for sure. It’s not black and white for me. I think elective abortion of a healthy baby and healthy pregnancy is despicable though.

What makes it less despicable in other circumstances?

Saving the life of the mother.