Joseph Smith on Law of Moses

[SJR3t2]

Here is a ton of quotes from Joseph Smith from my Law of Moses page https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ which I put together to explain how Torah and Law of Moses are two different things.

Now the purpose in himself [Yeshua/Jesus] in the winding up scene of the last dispensation is, that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted PRECISELY in accordance with the preceding dispensationS. And again, God purposed in himself that there should not be an eternal fulness, until every dispensation should be fulfilled [taught] and GATHERED TOGETHER IN ONE … therefore he set the ORDINANCES TO BE THE SAME FOR EVER AND EVER …
… thus we behold the keys of this priesthood consisted in obtaining the voice of Jehovah, that he talked with him [Noah] in a familiar and friendly manner, that he continued to him the keys, the covenants, the power and the glory, with which he blessed Adam at the beginning; and THE OFFERING OF SACRIFICE, WHICH ALSO SHALL BE CONTINUED AT THE LAST TIME; for ALL THE ORDINANCES AND DUTIES that ever have been required by the priesthood, under the directions and commandments of the Almighty in any of the dispensations, SHALL ALL BE HAD IN THE LAST DISPENSATION. Therefore ALL THINGS HAD UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIESTHOOD AT ANY FORMER PERIOD SHALL BE HAD AGAIN, BRINGING TO PASS THE RESTORATION spoken of by the mouth of all the holy prophets; then shall the sons of Levi offer an acceptable offering to the Lord [YHWH]. ‘And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord’ Malachi 3:3-4 [3 Nephi (LDS 24:3-4) (RLDS 11:6-7)].
IT IS GENERALLY SUPPOSED THAT SACRIFICE WAS ENTIRELY DONE AWAY WHEN THE GREAT SACRIFICE [Alma (LDS 34:10-15) (RLDS )] [i.e.,] THE SACRIFICE OF THE LORD [YHWH] JESUS [YESHUA] WAS OFFERED UP, AND THAT THERE WILL BE NO NECESSITY FOR THE ORDINANCE OF SACRIFICE IN THE FUTURE; BUT THOSE WHO ASSERT THIS ARE CERTAINLY NOT ACQUAINTED WITH THE DUTIES, PRIVILEGES AND AUTHORITY OF THE PRIESTHOOD, OR WITH THE PROPHETS.
The OFFERING OF SACRIFICE has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It [offering of sacrifice] began with the Priesthood, and WILL BE CONTINUED UNTIL AFTER THE COMING OF CHRIST [THE MESSIAH] [Adam-ondi-Aham], from generation to generation. We frequently have mention made of the offering of sacrifice by the servants of the Most High in ancient days, PRIOR TO THE LAW OF MOSES, WHICH ORDINANCES WILL BE CONTINUED WHEN THE PRIESTHOOD IS RESTORED WITH ALL IT’S AUTHORITY [Joseph Smith did not restore everything put did got it started], POWER AND BLESSINGS.
… THESE SACRIFICES, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, WHEN THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD [YHWH] SHALL BE BUILT [FUTURE], and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else HOW CAN THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass. IT IS NOT TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE LAW OF MOSES [DAILY PERFORMANCES AND ORDINANCES] WILL BE ESTABLISHED AGAIN with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; BUT THOSE THINGS WHICH EXISTED PRIOR TO MOSES’ DAY, namely, SACRIFICE, WILL BE CONTINUED.
It may be asked by some, what necessity for sacrifice, since the great sacrifice was offered? In answer to which, if repentance, baptism, and faith existed prior to the days of Christ, what necessity for them since that time?
Joseph Smith, History of the Church Volume 4 pages 211–212, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pages 172–173, Doctrines of Salvation Volume 3 page 94, The Words of Joseph Smith pages 38-44

It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine, set forth in the above quotation, As it is generally supposed that Sacrifice was entirely done away when the great sacrafice was offered up—and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of Sacrifice in future, but those who assert this, are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood. or with the prophets The offering of Sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the priesthood. It began with the priesthood and will be continued until after the coming of Christ [the Messiah] [Adam-ondi-Ahman] from generation to generation—We frequently have mention made of the offering of Sacrifice by the servants of the most high in ancient days prior to the law of Moses [carnal commandment].
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 765-771)

Gospel Ordinances from the Beginning:
Perhaps our friends will say that the Gospel and its ordinances were not known till the days of John, the son of Zacharias, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea. But we will here look at this point: For our own part we cannot believe that the ancients in all ages were so ignorant of the system of heaven as many suppose, since all that were ever saved, were saved through the power of this great plan of redemption, as much before the coming of Christ as since; if not, God has had different plans in operation (if we may so express it), to bring men back to dwell with Himself; and this we cannot believe, since there has been no change in the constitution of man since he fell; and the ordinance or institution of offering blood in sacrifice, was only designed to be performed till Christ [the Messiah] was offered up and shed His blood—as said before—that man might look forward in faith to that time. It will be noticed that, according to Paul, (see Gal. 3:8) the Gospel was preached to Abraham. We would like to be informed in what name the Gospel was then preached, whether it was in the name of Christ [the Messiah] or some other name. If in any other name, was it the Gospel? And if it was the Gospel, and that preached in the name of Christ [the Messiah], had it any ordinances? If not, was it the Gospel? And if it has ordinances what were they? Our friends may say, perhaps, that there were never any ordinances except those of offering sacrifices before the coming of Christ [the Messiah], and that it could not be possible before the Gospel to have been administered while the law of sacrifices of blood was in force. But we will recollect that Abraham offered sacrifice, and notwithstanding this, had the Gospel preached to him. That the offering of sacrifice was only to point the mind forward to Christ [the Messiah], we infer from these remarkable words of Jesus [Yeshua] to the Jews: “Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad” (John 8:56). So, then, because the ancients offered sacrifice it did not hinder their hearing the Gospel; but served, as we said before, to open their eyes, and enable them to look forward to the time of the coming of the Savior, and rejoice in His redemption. We find also, that when the Israelites came out of Egypt they had the Gospel preached to them, according to Paul in his letter to the Hebrews, which says: “For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (see Hebrews 4:2). It is said again, IN GAL 3:19 THAT THE LAW (OF MOSES, OR THE LEVITICAL LAW) WAS “ADDED” BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION. What, we ask, was this law added to, if it was not added to the Gospel? It must be plain that it was added to the Gospel, since we learn that they had the Gospel preached to them. From these few facts, we conclude that whenever the Lord [YHWH] revealed Himself to men in ancient days, and commanded them to offer sacrifice to Him [YHWH], that IT WAS DONE THAT THEY MIGHT LOOK FORWARD IN FAITH TO THE TIME OF HIS COMING, and rely upon the power of that atonement for a remission of their sins. And this they have done, thousands who have gone before us, whose garments are spotless, and who are, like Job, waiting with an assurance like his, that they will see Him in the latter day upon the earth, even in their flesh. We may conclude, that though there were different dispensations, yet all things which God [Elohim] communicated to His people were calculated to draw their minds to the great object, and to teach them to rely upon God [Elohim] alone as the author of their salvation, as contained in His law [Torah].
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition – Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith(Kindle Locations 9130-9155)

Paul’s great controversy with the Christian Jews was in relation to the superiority of the Gospel to the law of Moses [Carnal Commandments].
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition – Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith(Kindle Locations 16243-16244)

Rom. x: 3,4, “For they (Israel) being ignorant of God’s righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God; for Christ [the Messiah] is the end [goal] of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Thus the righteousness of God [Elohim] is made manifest in the plan of salvation by His crucified son; for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved,” but the name of Jesus [Yeshua] Christ [the Messiah] of Nazareth (Acts iv: 10, 12); but of this the Jews were ignorant, although they themselves crucified Him; and they have been going about wandering among all the nations of the earth ever since, for the space of eighteen hundred years, trying to establish their own righteousness, which is of the law of Moses [Carnal Commandments], which law can never make the comers thereto perfect [Torah makes perfect] (Heb. x: i.); yet notwithstanding their darkness and long dispersion, there is a remnant, according to the election of grace (Rom. xi: 5); whom God [Elohim] will gather from among all people whither they are scattered and will be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen; then shall they dwell in their land which God [Elohim] gave to His servant Jacob, and they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses and plant vineyards; “Yea, they shall dwell with confidence when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about; and they shall know that I am the Lord [YHWH] their God [Elohim]” (Ezek. 28: 25, 26; Is. xi: 11 to 16); and when this gathering shall be completed, “It shall no more be said, The Lord [YHWH] liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, but the Lord [YHWH] liveth that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers” (Jer. xvi: 14 to the end).
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition – History of the Church (Kindle Locations 43297-43309)

Rom. xi: 7. “What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it.” And why have they not obtained it? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law, for they stumbled at the stumbling stone: as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense” (Rom. ix: 32, 33); “to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble” (Isaiah viii: 14, 15); but “have they stumbled that they should fall? God [Elohim] forbid; but rather through their fall, salvation is come unto the Gentiles” (Rom. xi: 11). “And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Luke xxi: 24); and when the house of Israel shall be restored to their possessions in Canaan, it may truly be said, the election hath obtained it; for the fulfillment of God’s [Elohim’s] oath of election to Abraham as the father of the faithful, and the promises to His children will obtain that for Israel, which he has sought for in vain [fruitless] by the law of Moses [Performances and Ordinances].
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition – History of the Church (Kindle Locations 43309-43317)

James Burgess Notebook:
Hebrews 7 chap. … The priesthood of Levi consisted of cursings and blessings CARNAL COMMANDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES] and not of blessings and if the priesthood of this generation has no more power than that of Levi or Aaron or of a bishopric it administers no blessings …
The Levitical priesthood was an appendage to the Melchizedek priesthood or the whole law [Torah] of God [Elohim] when in full face or power in all its parts and bearings on the earth. …
OFFERING’S SACRIFICE’S AND CARNAL COMMANDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES], WAS ADDED IN CONSEQUENCE OF TRANSGRESSION and they that did them should live by them.
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 3400-3420)

Thus the Gospel was taught to the ancients. Noah was a preacher of it as well as Enoch. So, too, was Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God, King of Salem, who met Abraham in his day and blessed him. Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles, bears unmistakable testimony to the fact that the Gospel was preached unto Abraham; AND ALSO THAT IT WAS OFFERED TO ISRAEL UNDER MOSES BEFORE “THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMONDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES]” WAS GIVEN.
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 16235-16238)

From Moses to John the Baptist and Messiah:
In greater clearness, however, than in these sayings of Paul gathered up from his writings like scattered rays of light from a prism’s reflection, the antiquity of the Gospel, as far as it concerns ancient Israel, is stated in a revelation of God [Elohim] to the Prophet Joseph Smith. And not only the antiquity of the Gospel, but in greater clearness also is stated the reasons why, AFTER THE GOSPEL WAS FIRST PREACHED TO ANCIENT ISRAEL, THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMENDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES] WAS “ADDED” to the Gospel, or given in its place, to act as a schoolmaster to bring Israel unto Christ [Messiah]. And by the knowledge imparted in that revelation the time between the Mosaic dispensation and the coming of John the Baptist, to prepare the way for the coming of the Christ [Messiah], is spanned by a statement so rational, that the truth of it cannot be reasonably questioned.
Speaking of the MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTHOOD and its powers in administering the ordinances of the Gospel, and HOW IT CAME TO DISAPPEAR AS AN ORGANIZATION IN ISRAEL, the passage in question says:
This greater Priesthood administereth the Gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God [Elohim]. Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the Priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh: for without this no man can see the face of God [Elohim], even the Father, and live. Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God [Elohim]; BUT THEY HARDENED THEIR HEARTS and could not endure His [YHWH] presence; therefore, the Lord [YHWH] in His wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into His [YHWH] rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of His [YHWH] glory. THEREFORE HE [YHWH] took Moses OUT OF THEIR MIDST, AND THE HOLY [MELCHIZEDEK] PRIESTHOOD ALSO; and the lesser [Aaronic] Priesthood continued, which Priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory Gospel; which Gospel is the Gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, AND THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMANDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES], WHICH THE LORD [YHWH] IN HIS [YHWH] WRATH, CAUSED TO CONTINUE WITH THE HOUSE OF AARON AMONG THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL UNTIL JOHN, whom God [Elohim] raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost [Torah] from his mother’s womb; for he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood [eight years old], and was ordained by the angel of God [Elohim] at the time he was eight days old unto this power to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord [YHWH] before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord [YHWH], in whose hand is given all power.
As before remarked, this passage spans the interval of time between Moses and John the Baptist, and gives a fuller explanation than can be found in the writings of Paul or elsewhere, for the reason why and in what manner the law supplanted the Gospel; and what measure of the Priesthood remained with Israel unto the coming of John; in what the mission of John consisted, and in what manner he was qualified to fulfill that mission.
It should be remarked, however, that while the Lord [YHWH] took Moses out of the midst of ancient Israel, and the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood also, as an institution, as an organization, it is evident that subsequently special dispensations of that Priesthood were given to individual prophets, such as Samuel, Nathan, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel: for these men exercised powers and enjoyed privileges which belong exclusively to the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 16254-16278)

Of the churches throughout the province of Galatia, it is scarcely necessary to say more than we have already said concerning the invasion of that province by JUDAIZING Christian ministers who were TURNING AWAY THE SAINTS FROME THE GRACE OF CHRIST [THE MESSIAH] BACK TO THE BEGGARLY ELEMENTS OF THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMANDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES]; a circumstance which led Paul to exclaim: “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that had called you unto the grace of Christ [the Messiah] unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ [the Messiah].
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 16545-16549)

Paul, referring to the Saints, (Rom. 1: 7), calls them beloved of God [Elohim], called to be Saints; and says, (Rom. viii: 1), “There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ [Messiah] Jesus [Yeshua], who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” and goes on to show in his epistle to the Romans, that the law (THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMANDMENTS [LAW OF MOSES] given to the children of Israel, the covenant people), COUNT NOT MAKE THE COMERS THEREUNTO PERFECT [TORAH] (see also Heb. x: 1), but was given for a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ [the Messiah] (Gal. iii: 24); so that when He had come and offered Himself without spot unto God [Elohim] (Heb. ix: 14), THE SACRIFICE OF THE LAW [OF MOSES] SHOULD BE DONE AWAY IN HIM [YESHUA], that the honest in heart all might come unto the perfect law [Torah] of liberty (James i: 25); or the Gospel of Christ [the Messiah], walking no longer after the flesh but after the spirit, and be of that number who love God [Elohim] and keep His commandments, that they might be called according to His purpose (Rom. viii: 28);
Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 43183-43189)

[FrankOne]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

[John Tavner]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

[SJR3t2]

Millennial Temple Model of Ezekiel 40 – 48 helped me see from the scriptures that animal sacrifices are coming back and that the AntiChrist / Moon Child will not enter the coming Temple of YHWH Elohim
https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/03/20/mill ... iel-40-48/

[SJR3t2]

A reprint of a post that helped me learn about the coming animal sacrifices.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/03/16/the- ... illennium/

[SJR3t2]

Important Coming Dates and expounding of scriptures with the Second Coming of Yeshua / Jesus.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/04/07/impo ... ing-dates/

[John Tavner]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

hahaha! Thanks again for the laugh!

[FrankOne]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

thanks for engaging my question since the OP finds me offensive. I see it as you do in that blood sacrifices were for those that were traditionally acclimated to that kind of lifestyle. Christ solved it as far as I understand.

[FrankOne]

I would like to add that I do believe that animal sacrifices will return for those that do not understand which follow an ancient path that goes nowhere. Those fixed on the way of condemnation and not forgiveness . Those that believe that an outward show of obedience will gain them a crown instead of changing themselves within as Christ taught.

[Bronco73idi]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

The problem with Christianity in its non Old Testament form is they don’t know what parts of the law was truly fulfilled.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15 LDS
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.

The saris Paul writes in opinion. Why do I point out that he is a saris?

[John Tavner]

Interesting, I read through your post and it looks like JS is saying that animal sacrifices will start back up and continue?

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

The problem with Christianity in its non Old Testament form is they don’t know what parts of the law was truly fulfilled.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15 LDS
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.

The saris Paul writes in opinion. Why do I point out that he is a saris?

Christ himself was the fulfillment of the law. He was the final sacrifice. Hebrews says it. It is scripture.As does Peter see 1 Peter 3, but because mormons don't read their scriptures, in particular the New Testament, they are unaware that there are two witnesses to this: 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit... Also 1 John : 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Because you are under the false impression he is a eunuch and never could have been married or had children and have some idea that eunuch's are less and always will be because you don't understand symbolism- by your definition and through scripture Jesus is also a eunuch, you just have to assume He was married in order to make your theology fit.

This is the law 1 John 3: 22and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. 23And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us.24Whoever keeps His commandments remains in God, and God in him. And by this we know that He remains in us: by the Spirit He has given us.

Mormons would be wise to follow the next admonition of John: 1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[Bronco73idi]

Back when I basically worshiped anything Joseph did- he (JS) did imply there would be animal sacrifices at some point the sons of Aaron etc...

The only way I was able to grasp that concept in a way that made sense when I still deeply embraced mormon theology and believed in Multiple probations/condescensions was it was the beginning of a new world sort of thing. Now it just seems anti-antithetical to Jesus Christ- another manifestation of how Mormons really don't believe that Jesus Christ is God and He can't do what He said He did. As I think about it now, if JS really did say those things as well, it it just another arrow in the quiver about how JS just created another Old Testament or was creating another Old Testament religion and was unable to do as Peter and Paul taught- believe in Jesus Christ unto becoming and obtaining the Full stature of Christ.

The problem with Christianity in its non Old Testament form is they don’t know what parts of the law was truly fulfilled.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15 LDS
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.

The saris Paul writes in opinion. Why do I point out that he is a saris?

Christ himself was the fulfillment of the law. He was the final sacrifice. Hebrews says it. It is scripture.As does Peter see 1 Peter 3, but because mormons don't read their scriptures, in particular the New Testament, they are unaware that there are two witnesses to this: 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit...

Because you are under the false impression he is a eunuch and never could have been married or had children and have some idea that eunuch's are less and always will be because you don't understand symbolism- by your definition and through scripture Jesus is also a eunuch, you just have to assume He was married in order to make your theology fit.

Jesus was married and had kids.

Paul was a self proclaimed Saris. Paul can never obtain what Jesus said Abraham obtained. Paul will be higher than the sons and daughters of Heavenly Father per Isaiah.

You should not take offense of my words, but as someone who needs his truth to be understood you take offense. A saris is an official or a keeper of the bed, Joseph of Egypt was a saris per the Torah.

I understand you like your personal feelings more than facts, that is why you agreed with Shawn Henry about David being alive when Solomon “Built” the temple.

Jesus fulfilled the laws that he gave Moses. But “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Except for Jesus’s marriage to a woman, this is simple reading. Have ye not read?

[John Tavner]

The problem with Christianity in its non Old Testament form is they don’t know what parts of the law was truly fulfilled.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15 LDS
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.

The saris Paul writes in opinion. Why do I point out that he is a saris?

Christ himself was the fulfillment of the law. He was the final sacrifice. Hebrews says it. It is scripture.As does Peter see 1 Peter 3, but because mormons don't read their scriptures, in particular the New Testament, they are unaware that there are two witnesses to this: 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit...

Because you are under the false impression he is a eunuch and never could have been married or had children and have some idea that eunuch's are less and always will be because you don't understand symbolism- by your definition and through scripture Jesus is also a eunuch, you just have to assume He was married in order to make your theology fit.

Jesus was married and had kids.

Paul was a self proclaimed Saris. Paul can never obtain what Jesus said Abraham obtained. Paul will be higher than the sons and daughters of Heavenly Father per Isaiah.

You should not take offense of my words, but as someone who needs his truth to be understood you take offense. A saris is an official or a keeper of the bed, Joseph of Egypt was a saris per the Torah.

I understand you like your personal feelings more than facts, that is why you agreed with Shawn Henry about David being alive when Solomon “Built” the temple.

Jesus fulfilled the laws that he gave Moses. But “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Except for Jesus’s marriage to a woman, this is simple reading. Have ye not read?

I didn't. You are getting me confused with someone else- I never agreed with Shawn on David being alive. Stop creating false narratives in your mind. It's amazing what we create in our mind when we perceive others as enemies. So much projection. Yet Joseph of Egypt was married and had children- You are likely, according to LDS theology a descendant of a eunuch. Paul, if he was a member of the Sanhedrin was married, but decided not to be remarried, thus remained celibate- but I know it doesn't fit your theological narrative.

Yeah. We are ALL the Bride of Christ, thus anyone who knows God- NONE will be Eunuchs. When I decided to just believe Jesus, and His apostles over Joseph Smith things made more sense. To Paraphrase Dave Chapelle with a little twist "Prophet worship is a hell of a drug"

[FrankOne]

i got lost in translation. Paul on a eunicycle, memory holes and Shawn. That's a lot to take in.

[John Tavner]

I would like to add that I do believe that animal sacrifices will return for those that do not understand which follow an ancient path that goes nowhere. Those fixed on the way of condemnation and not forgiveness . Those that believe that an outward show of obedience will gain them a crown instead of changing themselves within as Christ taught.

The only way I see that happening anymore is through deception- as the Truth has been made manifest- so to return to that way of animal sacrifice would/could not be guided by Truth, because the Truth was lifted up for the whole world to see and was the sacrifice made ONCE for all according to scripture.

[SJR3t2]

OT, D&C, BoM, JS all testify that animal sacrifices are coming back because it's suppose to come back and YHWH does not have a different law for different people.

[Bronco73idi]

Christ himself was the fulfillment of the law. He was the final sacrifice. Hebrews says it. It is scripture.As does Peter see 1 Peter 3, but because mormons don't read their scriptures, in particular the New Testament, they are unaware that there are two witnesses to this: 18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit...

Because you are under the false impression he is a eunuch and never could have been married or had children and have some idea that eunuch's are less and always will be because you don't understand symbolism- by your definition and through scripture Jesus is also a eunuch, you just have to assume He was married in order to make your theology fit.

Jesus was married and had kids.

Paul was a self proclaimed Saris. Paul can never obtain what Jesus said Abraham obtained. Paul will be higher than the sons and daughters of Heavenly Father per Isaiah.

You should not take offense of my words, but as someone who needs his truth to be understood you take offense. A saris is an official or a keeper of the bed, Joseph of Egypt was a saris per the Torah.

I understand you like your personal feelings more than facts, that is why you agreed with Shawn Henry about David being alive when Solomon “Built” the temple.

Jesus fulfilled the laws that he gave Moses. But “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Except for Jesus’s marriage to a woman, this is simple reading. Have ye not read?

I didn't. You are getting me confused with someone else- I never agreed with Shawn on David being alive. Stop creating false narratives in your mind. It's amazing what we create in our mind when we perceive others as enemies. So much projection. Yet Joseph of Egypt was married and had children- You are likely, according to LDS theology a descendant of a eunuch. Paul, if he was a member of the Sanhedrin was married, but decided not to be remarried, thus remained celibate- but I know it doesn't fit your theological narrative.

Yeah. We are ALL the Bride of Christ, thus anyone who knows God- NONE will be Eunuchs. When I decided to just believe Jesus, and His apostles over Joseph Smith things made more sense. To Paraphrase Dave Chapelle with a little twist "Prophet worship is a hell of a drug"

ttps://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p1523723

You liked his post that he made arguing with me. and his post said David was alive when Solomon “built” the temple.

I don’t worship anyone but my Heavenly Father and his Son, remember anyone who believes in the father and not the son is worshipping the devil per John 8:44.


You should educate yourself about ancient Hebrews and saris. They were respected and could have kids if they matured into that.

[FrankOne]

I would like to add that I do believe that animal sacrifices will return for those that do not understand which follow an ancient path that goes nowhere. Those fixed on the way of condemnation and not forgiveness . Those that believe that an outward show of obedience will gain them a crown instead of changing themselves within as Christ taught.

The only way I see that happening anymore is through deception- as the Truth has been made manifest- so to return to that way of animal sacrifice would/could not be guided by Truth, because the Truth was lifted up for the whole world to see and was the sacrifice made ONCE for all according to scripture.

I was listening to a program some time ago as an Old Rabbi was talking of the Jewish prophecied future of Israel. By the time he was done, I had concluded that the anti-christ himself is who they are waiting for. I had never before had even a passing thought on that subject, yet, hearing his long description of who they are waiting for and all the events that would take place, I couldn't see any similarity to Christ in what he was saying and what 'he' will do. I was stunned. It appears to me that the 'dyed in the wool' Jews of today will be worshiping the anti-christ.

That's just my perspective based on his monologue and the little bit that I studied afterwards.

[John Tavner]

Jesus was married and had kids.

Paul was a self proclaimed Saris. Paul can never obtain what Jesus said Abraham obtained. Paul will be higher than the sons and daughters of Heavenly Father per Isaiah.

You should not take offense of my words, but as someone who needs his truth to be understood you take offense. A saris is an official or a keeper of the bed, Joseph of Egypt was a saris per the Torah.

I understand you like your personal feelings more than facts, that is why you agreed with Shawn Henry about David being alive when Solomon “Built” the temple.

Jesus fulfilled the laws that he gave Moses. But “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Except for Jesus’s marriage to a woman, this is simple reading. Have ye not read?

I didn't. You are getting me confused with someone else- I never agreed with Shawn on David being alive. Stop creating false narratives in your mind. It's amazing what we create in our mind when we perceive others as enemies. So much projection. Yet Joseph of Egypt was married and had children- You are likely, according to LDS theology a descendant of a eunuch. Paul, if he was a member of the Sanhedrin was married, but decided not to be remarried, thus remained celibate- but I know it doesn't fit your theological narrative.

Yeah. We are ALL the Bride of Christ, thus anyone who knows God- NONE will be Eunuchs. When I decided to just believe Jesus, and His apostles over Joseph Smith things made more sense. To Paraphrase Dave Chapelle with a little twist "Prophet worship is a hell of a drug"

ttps://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p1523723

You liked his post that he made arguing with me. and his post said David was alive when Solomon “built” the temple.

I don’t worship anyone but my Heavenly Father and his Son, remember anyone who believes in the father and not the son is worshipping the devil per John 8:44.


You should educate yourself about ancient Hebrews and saris. They were respected and could have kids if they matured into that.

I didn't like that post for the whole David and Solomon life span, I liked it for the very last sentence. " Christ fulfilled this when he declared that his body was the temple. ." I don't agree with most of what He said, but that little snippet is why I liked it. Again you assume because someone likes a post they agree with everything they are talking about. That is a ridiculous assumption. There was a thread a while ago about how and why people like posts.

Yep, you should look more into what "believing" the Son actually means. Too many say they believe, but their lives demonstrate they don't. There will be many that say "Lord , Lord..

[John Tavner]

I would like to add that I do believe that animal sacrifices will return for those that do not understand which follow an ancient path that goes nowhere. Those fixed on the way of condemnation and not forgiveness . Those that believe that an outward show of obedience will gain them a crown instead of changing themselves within as Christ taught.

The only way I see that happening anymore is through deception- as the Truth has been made manifest- so to return to that way of animal sacrifice would/could not be guided by Truth, because the Truth was lifted up for the whole world to see and was the sacrifice made ONCE for all according to scripture.

I was listening to a program some time ago as an Old Rabbi was talking of the Jewish prophecied future of Israel. By the time he was done, I had concluded that the anti-christ himself is who they are waiting for. I had never before had even a passing thought on that subject, yet, hearing his long description of who they are waiting for and all the events that would take place, I couldn't see any similarity to Christ in what he was saying and what 'he' will do. I was stunned. It appears to me that the 'dyed in the wool' Jews of today will be worshiping the anti-christ.

That's just my perspective based on his monologue and the little bit that I studied afterwards.

Yeah, I actually was reading and listening to someone the other day, that at this point they are actually worshipping in the synagogue of Satan, unaware that any future sacrifices will not be to or for God, but to Satan- albeit through deception, I don't think they will realize they are doing it, but it falls into line with your anti-christ comment.

[Bronco73idi]

I didn't. You are getting me confused with someone else- I never agreed with Shawn on David being alive. Stop creating false narratives in your mind. It's amazing what we create in our mind when we perceive others as enemies. So much projection. Yet Joseph of Egypt was married and had children- You are likely, according to LDS theology a descendant of a eunuch. Paul, if he was a member of the Sanhedrin was married, but decided not to be remarried, thus remained celibate- but I know it doesn't fit your theological narrative.

Yeah. We are ALL the Bride of Christ, thus anyone who knows God- NONE will be Eunuchs. When I decided to just believe Jesus, and His apostles over Joseph Smith things made more sense. To Paraphrase Dave Chapelle with a little twist "Prophet worship is a hell of a drug"

ttps://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p1523723

You liked his post that he made arguing with me. and his post said David was alive when Solomon “built” the temple.

I don’t worship anyone but my Heavenly Father and his Son, remember anyone who believes in the father and not the son is worshipping the devil per John 8:44.


You should educate yourself about ancient Hebrews and saris. They were respected and could have kids if they matured into that.

I didn't like that post for the whole David and Solomon life span, I liked it for the very last sentence. " Christ fulfilled this when he declared that his body was the temple. ." I don't agree with most of what He said, but that little snippet is why I liked it. Again you assume because someone likes a post they agree with everything they are talking about. That is a ridiculous assumption. There was a thread a while ago about how and why people like posts.

Yep, you should look more into what "believing" the Son actually means. Too many say they believe, but their lives demonstrate they don't. There will be many that say "Lord , Lord..

You liked a post because of a description of a bible verse? So vague of a reason, I have read many posts that have bible verses described properly mixed in with emotional opinion that they are trying to pass as facts.

I would never like them just because I like the common description of said verse.

I believe the son, he said he is there to do the work of the father.

He is one with the father, he had many things to judge the Pharisees of but the Father told him no.

Most Christians believe the son is the father thus they don’t believe his words!

Have ye not read?

[Luke]

John Tavner, you are 99% right, but you are missing something.

I guess we’re all in that boat to one degree or another.

[Luke]

Yep, you should look more into what "believing" the Son actually means. Too many say they believe, but their lives demonstrate they don't. There will be many that say "Lord , Lord..

Interested in hearing your thoughts on this as you have a good way of explaining things. I completely agree with this comment, by the way. There’s a massive difference between accepting that Jesus lived as a historical figure (or even believing that He is the Messiah) and truly believing on His name — truly trusting in Him so that we have confidence in the fact that we are saved and understanding that through His Spirit, He will change us and mould us as He lives in us.

[John Tavner]

ttps://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... 3#p1523723

You liked his post that he made arguing with me. and his post said David was alive when Solomon “built” the temple.

I don’t worship anyone but my Heavenly Father and his Son, remember anyone who believes in the father and not the son is worshipping the devil per John 8:44.


You should educate yourself about ancient Hebrews and saris. They were respected and could have kids if they matured into that.

I didn't like that post for the whole David and Solomon life span, I liked it for the very last sentence. " Christ fulfilled this when he declared that his body was the temple. ." I don't agree with most of what He said, but that little snippet is why I liked it. Again you assume because someone likes a post they agree with everything they are talking about. That is a ridiculous assumption. There was a thread a while ago about how and why people like posts.

Yep, you should look more into what "believing" the Son actually means. Too many say they believe, but their lives demonstrate they don't. There will be many that say "Lord , Lord..

You liked a post because of a description of a bible verse? So vague of a reason, I have read many posts that have bible verses described properly mixed in with emotional opinion that they are trying to pass as facts.

I would never like them just because I like the common description of said verse.

I believe the son, he said he is there to do the work of the father.

He is one with the father, he had many things to judge the Pharisees of but the Father told him no.

Most Christians believe the son is the father thus they don’t believe his words!

Have ye not read?

Yep. I did.

Cool, thanks for describing why we are different.

Ok.

I'm sure I disagree with whatever you are implying here- maybe agree with part and disagree in part.

I'm sure I disagree partly with whatever you are also implying here- probably agree in part and disagree in part.

You don't have a proper understanding of what most Christians believe.

I have read, thanks for asking- Just assume that I've read in the future, it must hurt your fingers to type that out every time you speak with someone- I'll save you the trouble and just let you know that I have read so you don't have to keep typing that out.

[Bronco73idi]

I didn't like that post for the whole David and Solomon life span, I liked it for the very last sentence. " Christ fulfilled this when he declared that his body was the temple. ." I don't agree with most of what He said, but that little snippet is why I liked it. Again you assume because someone likes a post they agree with everything they are talking about. That is a ridiculous assumption. There was a thread a while ago about how and why people like posts.

Yep, you should look more into what "believing" the Son actually means. Too many say they believe, but their lives demonstrate they don't. There will be many that say "Lord , Lord..

You liked a post because of a description of a bible verse? So vague of a reason, I have read many posts that have bible verses described properly mixed in with emotional opinion that they are trying to pass as facts.

I would never like them just because I like the common description of said verse.

I believe the son, he said he is there to do the work of the father.

He is one with the father, he had many things to judge the Pharisees of but the Father told him no.

Most Christians believe the son is the father thus they don’t believe his words!

Have ye not read?

Yep. I did.

Cool, thanks for describing why we are different.

Ok.

I'm sure I disagree with whatever you are implying here- maybe agree with part and disagree in part.

I'm sure I disagree partly with whatever you are also implying here- probably agree in part and disagree in part.

You don't have a proper understanding of what most Christians believe.

I have read, thanks for asking- Just assume that I've read in the future, it must hurt your fingers to type that out every time you speak with someone- I'll save you the trouble and just let you know that I have read so you don't have to keep typing that out.

So then you know that to say the first temple is not of God, that means the book of Isaiah is not of God because chapter 6 happened in that temple. Then that means Jesus is not of God because he talks about the prophecies of Isaiah being fulfilled in him!

This route you and Shawn are on is a slippery slope. Where do you stop the Justification?

The Jews who didn’t believe Jesus, hated him, he told them the truth, to their point of view he was a jerk. They thought they were perfect in their religion!

Jesus is an alpha, the alpha and the omega!