Apostle coming to Independence

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EndTimesBeliever
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Apostle coming to Independence

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We have stake conference coming up on Oct 27, 2024. We (stake choir members) have been told that we have an apostle coming. Would they send an apostle if it is just to divide/make a new stake? Or, do you think it will be more interesting than that? It seems like if they are going to make a big announcement in Independence, that President N would want to share the news first. Do you think there will be an interesting announcement during General Conference that will explain why they are sending an apostle to Independence, MO? Or, will it be a typical nothing special event? Thoughts? Inside scoop?

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JK4Woods
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Temple in Independence..?

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Telavian
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Impossible to say. However I am sure there will be a lot of speculation.

From what I have seen the LDS church will try to insert themselves into all sorts of endtime beliefs. However, in retrospection very few of them will be accurate. This will be like Rasband claiming Isaiah 2:2 was fulfilled by the SLC Olympics. It sounded very good at the time, however in hindsight it is complete nonsense.

4Joshua8
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Rev 21:22
I saw no temple in the (New Jerusalem), for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

A city? Yes. Descending out of heaven from God. A temple? Nope! If the church builds one, expect it to be overshadowed by the New Jerusalem when it comes.

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Telavian
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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4Joshua8 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:21 pm Rev 21:22
I saw no temple in the (New Jerusalem), for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
A lot of people try to explain this away. However, what is the purpose of a temple if every person and building is dedicated to God?
I really don't see the need for a specific building called a temple.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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Telavian wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:16 pm Impossible to say. However I am sure there will be a lot of speculation.

From what I have seen the LDS church will try to insert themselves into all sorts of endtime beliefs. However, in retrospection very few of them will be accurate. This will be like Rasband claiming Isaiah 2:2 was fulfilled by the SLC Olympics. It sounded very good at the time, however in hindsight it is complete nonsense.
I say the biggest giveaway is

β€œand they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:”

They shall be a blue collar working people!

The church today loves social influencers and Pharisees , I mean white collar workers πŸ˜‚

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AgeOfAquarius
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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JK4Woods wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:14 pm Temple in Independence..?
Yes, there is already a Temple there.

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EndTimesBeliever
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It appears that it was "just because." I'm not sure why they kept it secret for about a month on who was coming. We were told that we were only having a general session on Sunday and it would be only 1 1/2 hours long as the apostle that was coming couldn't do long meetings. Then about a week before, they said that it was Gong. So my guess is they kept it secret who was coming so that they could change it.

At any rate, it was a good stake conference. The choir sounded amazing, if I do say so myself. There was zero about what Gong and other leaders said that stood out from a typical meeting.

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LDSFreedom
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My wife and I served a full-time senior mission at he mission office in Independence. We were caught up in all mystique of "Zion".

I can remember when Anderson came for a visit. He basically laughed at the condition of Independence. True there is adequate property to built something, but if it happens, there will be no manifestation of the presence of God.

Jackson County was a convenient "Revelation" to convince the LDS to leave Kirtland because Smith was about to be overthrown, etc. There is no center-place in the BoM. If something is built there, it will be with the same devious intent to get the members to stay with the church instead of exiting with the current swell.

A Disciple
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EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 11:43 am ...There was zero about what Gong and other leaders said that stood out from a typical meeting.
When was the last time this wasn't the case? An interesting thought is that when we study the scriptures we make note of the local issues and concerns the saints faced in their particular community and how the prophet or apostle addressed those concerns. The modern LDS church sends out apostles to cities & states throughout the world and yet the message they give is one that could be given in any locality.

Do apostles have any awareness of political and cultural issues saints face in particular areas? Do they make an effort to be aware? Or do they just quiz the stake president for a few minutes the day they arrive to the area?

Serragon
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Each stake has 2 conferences per year. One of those is supposed to have a GA preside. The apostles are part of the GA rotation, so sometimes you will get one presiding at your conference. You will normally get a member of the 70 though.

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LDSFreedom
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I wonder if any of the following was performed:

5) And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick, and raise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus. (4 Nephi)/i]

29)And it shall come to pass, when the Lord seeth fit in his wisdom that they shall minister unto all the scattered tribes of Israel, and unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, and shall bring out of them unto Jesus many souls, that their desire may be fulfilled, and also because of the convincing power of God which is in them.
30)And they are as the angels of God, and if they shall pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus they can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good.
31)Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the great and coming day when all people must surely stand before the judgment-seat of Christ; (3 Nephi 28)


When the three Nephite complete their ministry, they will be recognized by the above works. Of course there will be many to point the finger and say (like the Pharisees) it is by the power of the devil.

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BringerOfJoy
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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LDSFreedom wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 11:54 am My wife and I served a full-time senior mission at he mission office in Independence. We were caught up in all mystique of "Zion".

I can remember when Anderson came for a visit. He basically laughed at the condition of Independence. True there is adequate property to built something, but if it happens, there will be no manifestation of the presence of God.

Jackson County was a convenient "Revelation" to convince the LDS to leave Kirtland because Smith was about to be overthrown, etc. There is no center-place in the BoM. If something is built there, it will be with the same devious intent to get the members to stay with the church instead of exiting with the current swell.
We almost did! We ended up at a smaller town, and were grateful that it turned out the way it did. That way we didn't end up being the Car Czar or the Housing Czar! It seemed like we were driving down to Independence anyway every couple of weeks. I wasn't particularly impressed with Jackson County either. Nor do I think anything but destruction lies in the near future for Jackson County. Long term? Who knows. I liked hanging out at Adam-Ondi-Ahman and the Far West temple site just because it was so danged peaceful. I will say that being in that part of the country was a very educational experience.

By the way, we did get RMN out there at that time (he was then President of the 12) to do a conference for the missionaries--so I don't think it's all that unusual? After all, the 1st presidency are technically the mission president for the AoA missionaries, though it is administered generally by a couple of emeritus GA's. Or it was a decade ago.

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LDSFreedom
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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BringerOfJoy wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 2:14 pm
LDSFreedom wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 11:54 am My wife and I served a full-time senior mission at he mission office in Independence. We were caught up in all mystique of "Zion".

I can remember when Anderson came for a visit. He basically laughed at the condition of Independence. True there is adequate property to built something, but if it happens, there will be no manifestation of the presence of God.

Jackson County was a convenient "Revelation" to convince the LDS to leave Kirtland because Smith was about to be overthrown, etc. There is no center-place in the BoM. If something is built there, it will be with the same devious intent to get the members to stay with the church instead of exiting with the current swell.
We almost did! We ended up at a smaller town, and were grateful that it turned out the way it did. That way we didn't end up being the Car Czar or the Housing Czar! It seemed like we were driving down to Independence anyway every couple of weeks. I wasn't particularly impressed with Jackson County either. Nor do I think anything but destruction lies in the near future for Jackson County. Long term? Who knows. I liked hanging out at Adam-Ondi-Ahman and the Far West temple site just because it was so danged peaceful. I will say that being in that part of the country was a very educational experience.

By the way, we did get RMN out there at that time (he was then President of the 12) to do a conference for the missionaries--so I don't think it's all that unusual? After all, the 1st presidency are technically the mission president for the AoA missionaries, though it is administered generally by a couple of emeritus GA's. Or it was a decade ago.
My wife was secretary to the mission president. I was finance.

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Sarah
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 11:43 am It appears that it was "just because." I'm not sure why they kept it secret for about a month on who was coming. We were told that we were only having a general session on Sunday and it would be only 1 1/2 hours long as the apostle that was coming couldn't do long meetings. Then about a week before, they said that it was Gong. So my guess is they kept it secret who was coming so that they could change it.

At any rate, it was a good stake conference. The choir sounded amazing, if I do say so myself. There was zero about what Gong and other leaders said that stood out from a typical meeting.
What's likely is that he had to travel to the area for other reasons, and wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to talk to some saints while there, so scheduled a Stake Conference. This happened recently in our Stake.

p8riot
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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4Joshua8 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:21 pm Rev 21:22
I saw no temple in the (New Jerusalem), for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

A city? Yes. Descending out of heaven from God. A temple? Nope! If the church builds one, expect it to be overshadowed by the New Jerusalem when it comes.
The city is a temple. The Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are at the center of it, thus a holy of holies.

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tmac
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BringerOfJoy wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 2:14 pm
LDSFreedom wrote: ↑October 29th, 2024, 11:54 am My wife and I served a full-time senior mission at he mission office in Independence. We were caught up in all mystique of "Zion".

I can remember when Anderson came for a visit. He basically laughed at the condition of Independence. True there is adequate property to built something, but if it happens, there will be no manifestation of the presence of God.

Jackson County was a convenient "Revelation" to convince the LDS to leave Kirtland because Smith was about to be overthrown, etc. There is no center-place in the BoM. If something is built there, it will be with the same devious intent to get the members to stay with the church instead of exiting with the current swell.
We almost did! We ended up at a smaller town, and were grateful that it turned out the way it did. That way we didn't end up being the Car Czar or the Housing Czar! It seemed like we were driving down to Independence anyway every couple of weeks. I wasn't particularly impressed with Jackson County either. Nor do I think anything but destruction lies in the near future for Jackson County. Long term? Who knows. I liked hanging out at Adam-Ondi-Ahman and the Far West temple site just because it was so danged peaceful. I will say that being in that part of the country was a very educational experience.

By the way, we did get RMN out there at that time (he was then President of the 12) to do a conference for the missionaries--so I don't think it's all that unusual? After all, the 1st presidency are technically the mission president for the AoA missionaries, though it is administered generally by a couple of emeritus GA's. Or it was a decade ago.
I am interested in the banter here about the Independence area. I have spent some time the last few months looking around in NW MO, mostly at productive farm properties, etc. But I have some current interest in a unique eight acre property in Independence, as an investment, and I am interested in any inside scoop(s) or information about the area. Personally, my interest in the area does not coincide with most Mormons' interest in that area. But I am interested in hearing pros and cons, etc., about the area that are mostly completely unrelated to conventional Mormon paradigms.

Anybody want to share?

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tmac
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:04 pm We have stake conference coming up on Oct 27, 2024. We (stake choir members) have been told that we have an apostle coming. Would they send an apostle if it is just to divide/make a new stake? Or, do you think it will be more interesting than that? It seems like if they are going to make a big announcement in Independence,
Please see previous post.

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EndTimesBeliever
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tmac wrote: ↑October 30th, 2024, 7:03 pm
EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:04 pm We have stake conference coming up on Oct 27, 2024. We (stake choir members) have been told that we have an apostle coming. Would they send an apostle if it is just to divide/make a new stake? Or, do you think it will be more interesting than that? It seems like if they are going to make a big announcement in Independence,
Please see previous post.
If you call Humidity Moisture then,

Moles, Mice, Mosquitoes, and Moisture, are what make Missouri Miserable.

It is Misery living in Missouri, so it is aptly named.

All jokes aside, those are the four things that I am still learning to deal with as they were never factors in my prior to Missouri life. (Yes, I have dealt with mosquitoes on occasions especially when camping, but I have never lived in a place where I have gotten over 50 bites from being out working my the yard for an hour.)

The majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming.

Taxes are high. They more than doubled mine last year. The state has told the city that they raised taxes illegally and need to refund the money, but the city is fighting that.

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ransomme
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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Telavian wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:49 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2024, 1:21 pm Rev 21:22
I saw no temple in the (New Jerusalem), for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
A lot of people try to explain this away. However, what is the purpose of a temple if every person and building is dedicated to God?
I really don't see the need for a specific building called a temple.
I found these verses very interesting regarding the temple. Especially in context with all of the book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 9
1 Now the first covenant, in fact, had regulations for worship and its earthly sanctuary.
… 8 The Holy Spirit is making clear that the way into the Holy Place had not yet appeared as long as the old tabernacle was standing. 9 This was a symbol for the time then present, when gifts and sacrifices were offered that could not perfect the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They served only for matters of food and drink and various ritual washings; they are external regulations imposed until the new order came.(Deut.30; Jer.31;Ezk.11&36 - these are about the new covenant and receiving a new heart) 11 But now Christ has come as the high priest of the good things to come. He passed through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, 12 and he entered once for all into the Most Holy Place not by the blood of goats and calves but by his own blood, and so he himself secured eternal redemption.

Christ said His body was the temple: John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

And then how collectively His church is referred to as the body of Christ.

And then off of course how as an archetype or bodies and likeness to temples as well.
1 Corinthians 3
16. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.

2 Corinthians 6:16
16 And what mutual agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, "I will live in them and will walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Last edited by ransomme on October 31st, 2024, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tmac
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EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑October 30th, 2024, 10:13 pm
The majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming.

Taxes are high. They more than doubled mine last year. The state has told the city that they raised taxes illegally and need to refund the money, but the city is fighting that.
Do Mormons dominate Independence city government?

It seems to me that Independence is more or less a suburb or bedroom community of Kansas City. Am I wrong about that? How much industry, economic activity and tax base is there in Independence? A lack of balance between residential growth/development and legitimate economic tax base is one of the reasons why a municipal government might go crazy with property taxes. How does KC view Independence? And how does Independence view KC? What is the relationship between the two?

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gkearney
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tmac wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 6:17 am
EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑October 30th, 2024, 10:13 pm
The majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming.

Taxes are high. They more than doubled mine last year. The state has told the city that they raised taxes illegally and need to refund the money, but the city is fighting that.
Do Mormons dominate Independence city government?

It seems to me that Independence is more or less a suburb or bedroom community of Kansas City. Am I wrong about that? How much industry, economic activity and tax base is there in Independence? A lack of balance between residential growth/development and legitimate economic tax base is one of the reasons why a municipal government might go crazy with property taxes. How does KC view Independence? And how does Independence view KC? What is the relationship between the two?
I live in the area as well. Independence is a close in suburb of Kansas City, MO. and borders that city to the east. While mostly residential it does have some industrial areas in it's western edge. It is mostly residential and retail. It is the county seat of Jackson County which includes Kansas City so local politics runs thick and fast there. I would not say that Latter Day Saints, of any variety, dominate either city or county government. Parts of Independence are what one would call "scruffy" and really need to be redeveloped this is so in the western areas of town.

It is sort of hard to not at least me aware of the Latter Day Saints in town, the biggest public buildings are the RLDS auditorium and The Temple (RLDS) which is far and away the tallest structure in the city. I'm not sure you can say that the "majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming" but the various kinds of Latter Day Saints in town certainly would.

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EndTimesBeliever
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gkearney wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 8:00 am I'm not sure you can say that the "majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming" but the various kinds of Latter Day Saints in town certainly would.
I thought about rephrasing that last night when I wrote it, but decided it was better to go to bed.

The percentage of LDS in this area that believe Independence will play a role in the second coming is far greater than the average of all LDS. We have had several converts from the offshoots into our ward, and they have expressed that they have believed this to be Zion their entire lives.

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Telavian
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EndTimesBeliever wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 11:18 am
gkearney wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 8:00 am I'm not sure you can say that the "majority of the people here believe that it will play a role in the second coming" but the various kinds of Latter Day Saints in town certainly would.
I thought about rephrasing that last night when I wrote it, but decided it was better to go to bed.

The percentage of LDS in this area that believe Independence will play a role in the second coming is far greater than the average of all LDS. We have had several converts from the offshoots into our ward, and they have expressed that they have believed this to be Zion their entire lives.
It's interesting because Joseph originally said that the New Jerusalem would be "among the Lamanites". However, when the church couldn't get a license to enter their territory, he changed that to "on the borders by the Lamanites". Independence happened to be right on the border between USA and Lamanite land at the time.

I always thought that Independence was a special place. However, now I really am not so sure.

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EndTimesBeliever
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Re: Apostle coming to Independence

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Telavian wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 11:50 am
I always thought that Independence was a special place. However, now I really am not so sure.
I am finding it hard to be sure about anything these days. I am still leaning in that direction though. I recall seeing something about the Native Americans feeling this area is sacred, but I don't recall the specifics, just that it is a special location for more reasons than church history.

I do know that our stake has been collecting people's stories and how they have come to be here and that they occasionally put on firesides where they share some of these. (I have not attended one.) I have heard that many of these stories go over how God's hand brought them to be here. Maybe that is the case for anywhere people move to; they feel that God led them there. ???

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