Torah and Law of Moses are two different things

[SJR3t2]

My apologies, I didn't realize you had asked me.
If you read 1 John, it is clear that his audience is the unconverted, non-member who does not know Christ and has not received his salvation.

However, John says if we do not keep his commandments and his word we cannot know him. What are his commandments? What is his word?

~Seeker

The context of the passage shows something different than what you are stating, and instead of answering the question, you ask another question. What Yeshua lived was Torah and it states we are to do what Yeshua did which was Torah.

You quoted, "...hereby we do know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments."

Jesus commanded,

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

You quoted, "But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God [Elohim] perfected:"

Jesus taught that perfection is acheived not by loving those who love us, like the wicked do, but by loving our enemies like God loves His enemies,

Matt. 5
43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gal. 5
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Obedience to dead laws of commandments should not be our goal. The wicked keep the commandment not to kill their enemies whom they hate. Are we to live like the wicked?

The difference between the wicked and the righteous is that the righteous hear his voice and follow him.

D&C 84:52-53
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked...

Mosiah 26:21 & 28
21 And he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church, and him will I also receive.
…
28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.

D&C 38:6
6 And even so will I cause the wicked to be kept, that will not hear my voice but harden their hearts, and wo, wo, wo, is their doom…

Mosiah 16:2
2 And then shall the wicked be cast out, and they shall have cause to howl, and weep, and wail, and gnash their teeth; and this because they would not hearken unto the voice of the Lord; therefore the Lord redeemeth them not.

The Voice of the Lord is the Spirit or the Holy Ghost.

D&C 18:35-36
35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, ...
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words.

D&C 75:1
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, I who speak even by the voice of my Spirit, even Alpha and Omega, your Lord and your God—

D&C 97:1
1 Verily I say unto you my friends, I speak unto you with my voice, even the voice of my Spirit, that I may show unto you my will...

D&C 88:66
66 Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness—in the wilderness, because you cannot see him—my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound.

D&C 68:3-4
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

You quoted, "He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked."

How did he walk?

John 14
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

If we live according to the books that are written, including the Bible, we are dead. We must live like Jesus lived, speaking the words given to us by the spirit and doing the works we are led to do by the spirit. Only then are we living as he lived.

2 Nephio 32
5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

~Seeker

We have gone over this, and you don't want to acknowledge that the new commandments are renewed commandments, in addition to what the scriptures and Joseph Smith say on the subject that I show here extensively https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ .

Leviticus 19:18
AA Thou shalt not avenge,
AB nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [forgive],
BA but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
BB I am the Lord [YHWH].

Deuteronomy 6:5
A And thou shalt love the Lord [YHWH] thy God [Elohim]
BA with all thine heart,
BB and with all thy soul,
BC and with all thy might.

[I Dont Know...]

1 John 2:3-6
AA 3 And hereby we do know
AB that we know Him,
AC IF we keep His commandments.
-BA 4 He that saith, I know Him,
-BB and keepeth not His commandments,
-BC is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
-BA 5 But whoso keepeth His word,
-BB in him verily is the love of God [Elohim] perfected:
-BC hereby know we that we are in Him.
AA 6 He that saith he abideth in Him
AB ought himself also so to walk,
AC even as He walked.

Also why is it you think you can keep asking me question and expect me to answer them, when you don't answer question I ask?

My apologies, I didn't realize you had asked me.
If you read 1 John, it is clear that his audience is the unconverted, non-member who does not know Christ and has not received his salvation.

However, John says if we do not keep his commandments and his word we cannot know him. What are his commandments? What is his word?

~Seeker

...I must say, your patience and humility is impressive...

...as part of your calling, its not surprising...

...the sign of a true friend of Christ...

...

[SJR3t2]

1 John 2:3-6
AA 3 And hereby we do know
AB that we know Him,
AC IF we keep His commandments.
-BA 4 He that saith, I know Him,
-BB and keepeth not His commandments,
-BC is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
-BA 5 But whoso keepeth His word,
-BB in him verily is the love of God [Elohim] perfected:
-BC hereby know we that we are in Him.
AA 6 He that saith he abideth in Him
AB ought himself also so to walk,
AC even as He walked.

Also why is it you think you can keep asking me question and expect me to answer them, when you don't answer question I ask?

My apologies, I didn't realize you had asked me.
If you read 1 John, it is clear that his audience is the unconverted, non-member who does not know Christ and has not received his salvation.

However, John says if we do not keep his commandments and his word we cannot know him. What are his commandments? What is his word?

~Seeker

...I must say, your patience and humility is impressive...

...as part of your calling, its not surprising...

...the sign of a true friend of Christ...

...

A true friend of Christ would not be teaching not to keep His law / Torah.

[I Dont Know...]

My apologies, I didn't realize you had asked me.
If you read 1 John, it is clear that his audience is the unconverted, non-member who does not know Christ and has not received his salvation.

However, John says if we do not keep his commandments and his word we cannot know him. What are his commandments? What is his word?

~Seeker

...I must say, your patience and humility is impressive...

...as part of your calling, its not surprising...

...the sign of a true friend of Christ...

...

A true friend of Christ would not be teaching not to keep His law / Torah.

...thus saith the Lord?...

[SJR3t2]

...I must say, your patience and humility is impressive...

...as part of your calling, its not surprising...

...the sign of a true friend of Christ...

...

A true friend of Christ would not be teaching not to keep His law / Torah.

...thus saith the Lord?...

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

[Shawn Henry]

Steven, 3 pages and nobody agrees with you.

If you see that as a red flag, please respond by saying: not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

[SJR3t2]

Steven, 3 pages and nobody agrees with you.

If you see that as a red flag, please respond by saying: not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere and you are trying to set a trap you basterd.

[Shawn Henry]

Steven, 3 pages and nobody agrees with you.

If you see that as a red flag, please respond by saying: not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere and you are trying to set a trap you basterd.

Steven, holy cow! It's not a trap when everyone sees exactly what I am doing. Traps only work when they are not easily seen.

When being called a bastard, I request that my designation is at least spelled correctly.

Love you, Steven. I'll stop teasing you. Sleep well.

[SJR3t2]

Steven, 3 pages and nobody agrees with you.

If you see that as a red flag, please respond by saying: not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere and you are trying to set a trap you basterd.

Steven, holy cow! It's not a trap when everyone sees exactly what I am doing. Traps only work when they are not easily seen.

When being called a bastard, I request that my designation is at least spelled correctly.

Love you, Steven. I'll stop teasing you. Sleep well.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere. You don't love me you actions and lies, and traps show otherwise.

[Seeker144k]

A true friend of Christ would not be teaching not to keep His law / Torah.

...thus saith the Lord?...

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

Wait, I quoted Jesus 12 times, 2 Apostles and 2 prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and you say I am teaching against His law?

Which words of Christ do you take issue with and want to challenge? The ones he spoke directly in the New Testament or Doctrine and Covenants or his words spoken by the Prophets or Apostles in the New Testament and Book of Mormon?

~Seeker

[SJR3t2]

...thus saith the Lord?...

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

Wait, I quoted Jesus 12 times, 2 Apostles and 2 prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and you say I am teaching against His law?

Which words of Christ do you take issue with and want to challenge? The ones he spoke directly in the New Testament or Doctrine and Covenants or his words spoken by the Prophets or Apostles in the New Testament and Book of Mormon?

~Seeker

You still are not acknowledging everything I have here https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ and how it's a renewed covenant.

[Seeker144k]

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

Wait, I quoted Jesus 12 times, 2 Apostles and 2 prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and you say I am teaching against His law?

Which words of Christ do you take issue with and want to challenge? The ones he spoke directly in the New Testament or Doctrine and Covenants or his words spoken by the Prophets or Apostles in the New Testament and Book of Mormon?

~Seeker

You still are not acknowledging everything I have here https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ and how it's a renewed covenant.

Wait, again... I assume that you are an expert in the material you posted on that website. And that your understanding of the material on that website prompted your response to the references I quoted.

I quoted 12 seperate references from Jesus, 2 different Apostles and 2 different prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. You responded by saying that I was "teaching against His law / Torah."

Does what you wrote on that website somehow explain, justify or make your negative response to the words of Christ reasonable, acceptable or aligned with God?

And if your response to the words of Christ is in fact aligned with God, then are his words which you criticized aligned with God?

~Seeker

[SJR3t2]

Wait, I quoted Jesus 12 times, 2 Apostles and 2 prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and you say I am teaching against His law?

Which words of Christ do you take issue with and want to challenge? The ones he spoke directly in the New Testament or Doctrine and Covenants or his words spoken by the Prophets or Apostles in the New Testament and Book of Mormon?

~Seeker

You still are not acknowledging everything I have here https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ and how it's a renewed covenant.

Wait, again... I assume that you are an expert in the material you posted on that website. And that your understanding of the material on that website prompted your response to the references I quoted.

I quoted 12 seperate references from Jesus, 2 different Apostles and 2 different prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. You responded by saying that I was "teaching against His law / Torah."

Does what you wrote on that website somehow explain, justify or make your negative response to the words of Christ reasonable, acceptable or aligned with God?

And if your response to the words of Christ is in fact aligned with God, then are his words which you criticized aligned with God?

~Seeker

I"m criticizing you for not acknowledging YHWH's renewed covenant and how you are not addressing much what I have shared in the thread with you, and what I have at https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ while telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

For now on I will respond with the following to you, because you don't respond to anything, and you are twisting the situation, to try to make me look bad.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

[Seeker144k]

You still are not acknowledging everything I have here https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ and how it's a renewed covenant.

Wait, again... I assume that you are an expert in the material you posted on that website. And that your understanding of the material on that website prompted your response to the references I quoted.

I quoted 12 seperate references from Jesus, 2 different Apostles and 2 different prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. You responded by saying that I was "teaching against His law / Torah."

Does what you wrote on that website somehow explain, justify or make your negative response to the words of Christ reasonable, acceptable or aligned with God?

And if your response to the words of Christ is in fact aligned with God, then are his words which you criticized aligned with God?

~Seeker

I"m criticizing you for not acknowledging YHWH's renewed covenant and how you are not addressing much what I have shared in the thread with you, and what I have at https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ while telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

For now on I will respond with the following to you, because you don't respond to anything, and you are twisting the situation, to try to make me look bad.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

I appologize. I was not intending to make you look bad, I certainly didn't tell you that you do not know what you are talking about. I was surprised by your response to my post since 95% of my response was quoting the words of Christ. You seemed to disagree with the words of Christ I quoted by saying that they were "teaching against God's law/Torah."

Jesus' words caused the Pharisees and Sadducees of his day to say the same thing, essentially that he was preaching against God's law/Torah. His response was, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matt. 5:17)

That being said, I admit that I am judging your writings by their fruit, without reading them. The fruit is what your beliefs produce.

Matt. 7
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits brought forth or produced by your beliefs caused you to responsed in the way you did. I don't need to know the details of your beliefs to see the fruits or results of them. The fruit was to say that by quoting the words of Christ I was "teaching against His law / Torah?"

This means that your beliefs are in conflict with the words of Christ, or you wouldn't have responded by saying so. If you disagree, then I would love to hear you explain how the words of Christ that I quoted are actually aligned with and support your beliefs and what you have written on that website. Of if they do not, then explain why the words of Christ are wrong.

I hold no ill feelings toward you. I just believe you that your beliefs are at odds with the words of Christ.

~Seeker

[SJR3t2]

Wait, again... I assume that you are an expert in the material you posted on that website. And that your understanding of the material on that website prompted your response to the references I quoted.

I quoted 12 seperate references from Jesus, 2 different Apostles and 2 different prophets from the New Testament, Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. You responded by saying that I was "teaching against His law / Torah."

Does what you wrote on that website somehow explain, justify or make your negative response to the words of Christ reasonable, acceptable or aligned with God?

And if your response to the words of Christ is in fact aligned with God, then are his words which you criticized aligned with God?

~Seeker

I"m criticizing you for not acknowledging YHWH's renewed covenant and how you are not addressing much what I have shared in the thread with you, and what I have at https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ while telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

For now on I will respond with the following to you, because you don't respond to anything, and you are twisting the situation, to try to make me look bad.

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

I appologize. I was not intending to make you look bad, I certainly didn't tell you that you do not know what you are talking about. I was surprised by your response to my post since 95% of my response was quoting the words of Christ. You seemed to disagree with the words of Christ I quoted by saying that they were "teaching against God's law/Torah."

Jesus' words caused the Pharisees and Sadducees of his day to say the same thing, essentially that he was preaching against God's law/Torah. His response was, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matt. 5:17)

That being said, I admit that I am judging your writings by their fruit, without reading them. The fruit is what your beliefs produce.

Matt. 7
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits brought forth or produced by your beliefs caused you to responsed in the way you did. I don't need to know the details of your beliefs to see the fruits or results of them. The fruit was to say that by quoting the words of Christ I was "teaching against His law / Torah?"

This means that your beliefs are in conflict with the words of Christ, or you wouldn't have responded by saying so. If you disagree, then I would love to hear you explain how the words of Christ that I quoted are actually aligned with and support your beliefs and what you have written on that website. Of if they do not, then explain why the words of Christ are wrong.

I hold no ill feelings toward you. I just believe you that your beliefs are at odds with the words of Christ.

~Seeker

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

[I Dont Know...]

A true friend of Christ would not be teaching not to keep His law / Torah.

...thus saith the Lord?...

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

...I don't think he is...

...everything Christ teaches must be considered in context...

...I agree that animal sacrifice will continue...its clear that during the millennium its a requirement...

...if therefore its a requirement, we need to consider not only who will be administering this commandment, but who will be required to offer sacrifice...

...we know that nothing that defileth can enter into the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven (Rev 21)...

...we also know, that during this period (millennium), the nations that have come up to battle against Israel, will burn (Zachariah 14: 12-13)...

...now, we know that not all the nations that have battled against Jerusalem will be destroyed...Christ's love and mercy will give every repentant heart a chance to turn away from wickedness...

...for those nations that remain, having previously fought against Christ...these will be required to come up to Jerusalem year on year to offer sacrifice or suffer the plagues of Egypt...

...two separate things are taking place during the millennium...

1 the righteous who have overcome Babylon through repentance and turning to Christ (baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost)...will inherit a place at the throne of Christ (new Jerusalem)...

2 the nations that remain, who have previously fought against Christ, but having realised the error of their sinful ways, have turned to Christ...(outside new Jerusalem)...these are they that are required to continue their journey of deliverance, and continue to obey Christ and show their willingness to grow beyond the law of sacrifice...until their spirit has been renewed (born again)...

...remember, turning to Christ is just the beginning...once a man has turned to Christ, he or she must labour diligently to prove worthy of greater glory...that of the spirit...

...for all those that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 23 & 24)...

...all laws lead to Christ...but in order to rule and reign with him...man is required to deliver up his heart...

...no mortal or physical ordinance can save, but it must be practiced, (sacrifice and baptism) as a witness for mortal man, who is not yet saved, to continue his journey of redemption, by being prepared to follow every command of Christ, until they have been redeemed...

...Christ is perfect but we are not...

...if Christ therefore, is willing to offer redemption to the wicked...how then should we act towards our fellow man?...

...we need to move beyond our mortal tendencies to criticise and take offence where none is given...

...I appreciate the work you do...even though I don't necessarily agree with your musings...I can still find a place in my heart to appreciate the great work you do...

...we need to be prepared to teach by the spirit...

...in order to teach by the spirit, we must be willing to be led by the spirit...we must not let our own zeal compromise the good work we have done...

...when we can show Christ that our spirit is greater than our zeal...

...he will speak...

[SJR3t2]

...thus saith the Lord?...

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

...I don't think he is...

...everything Christ teaches must be considered in context...

...I agree that animal sacrifice will continue...its clear that during the millennium its a requirement...

...if therefore its a requirement, we need to consider not only who will be administering this commandment, but who will be required to offer sacrifice...

...we know that nothing that defileth can enter into the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven (Rev 21)...

...we also know, that during this period (millennium), the nations that have come up to battle against Israel, will burn (Zachariah 14: 12-13)...

...now, we know that not all the nations that have battled against Jerusalem will be destroyed...Christ's love and mercy will give every repentant heart a chance to turn away from wickedness...

...for those nations that remain, having previously fought against Christ...these will be required to come up to Jerusalem year on year to offer sacrifice or suffer the plagues of Egypt...

...two separate things are taking place during the millennium...

1 the righteous who have overcome Babylon through repentance and turning to Christ (baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost)...will inherit a place at the throne of Christ (new Jerusalem)...

2 the nations that remain, who have previously fought against Christ, but having realised the error of their sinful ways, have turned to Christ...(outside new Jerusalem)...these are they that are required to continue their journey of deliverance, and continue to obey Christ and show their willingness to grow beyond the law of sacrifice...until their spirit has been renewed (born again)...

...remember, turning to Christ is just the beginning...once a man has turned to Christ, he or she must labour diligently to prove worthy of greater glory...that of the spirit...

...for all those that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 23 & 24)...

...all laws lead to Christ...but in order to rule and reign with him...man is required to deliver up his heart...

...no mortal or physical ordinance can save, but it must be practiced, (sacrifice and baptism) as a witness for mortal man, who is not yet saved, to continue his journey of redemption, by being prepared to follow every command of Christ, until they have been redeemed...

...Christ is perfect but we are not...

...if Christ therefore, is willing to offer redemption to the wicked...how then should we act towards our fellow man?...

...we need to move beyond our mortal tendencies to criticise and take offence where none is given...

...I appreciate the work you do...even though I don't necessarily agree with your musings...I can still find a place in my heart to appreciate the great work you do...

...we need to be prepared to teach by the spirit...

...in order to teach by the spirit, we must be willing to be led by the spirit...we must not let our own zeal compromise the good work we have done...

...when we can show Christ that our spirit is greater than our zeal...

...he will speak...

But he is.

Yes the Mighty and Strong One, https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/might ... trong-one/ , will be bringing back Torah, burnt offerings, animal sacrifices as I explain here https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/04/07/impo ... ing-dates/ . But this thread is how the daily two lambs was a punishment and ended at Yeshua's cross which is also known as carnal commandments, blood sacrifices and Law of Moses. At https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ I show this with quotes from Joseph Smith, OT, NT, BoM, JST, and D&C. There is clearly a difference between Torah and Law of Moses. Yeshua wants us to be like Him, and thus keep Torah https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/ .

[MikeMaillet]

As YHWH has stated multiple times someone stating that we should not eat meat is not of YHWH Elohim. I go over this in these post and pag.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2017/04/30/bom- ... -the-time/
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/health/

I didn't say we should not eat meat, I said it isn't particularly good for us.
Also, Adam & Eve were told to eat fruit. No meat was eaten in the Garden, or for some considerable time afterwards.
Meat eating, in my view, is a characteristic of our deeply fallen nature, and though permitted, is not ideal. It will be abandoned when Zion is established.

It is good for us, and to keep all of YHWH's commandments we have to eat meat. Adam and Eve ate meat. Meat will be eaten in Zion.

I doubt very much that meat will be eaten in Zion. Adam and Eve (us) will return to the Garden from which we were expelled. The Garden is situated in an area between corruptibility (matter as we know it) and incorruptibility (something permanent) and death was not present in the Garden. Adam and Eve became mortal when they were expelled from the Garden, given coats of skins (mortal bodies) and were now forced to eat food for survival. Meat is made from dead bodies and if there is no death in the Garden there are no dead animals to consume. Also, why would an immortal body rely on food that came from a corrupt kingdom such as ours?

Mike

[Shawn Henry]

For now on I will respond with the following

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

Steven, your club of backlisted individuals continues to grow. If Seeker asks for forgiveness for any misunderstandings, don't you think you should forgive?

[I Dont Know...]

Do you think a friend of YHWH would be teaching against His law / Torah?

...I don't think he is...

...everything Christ teaches must be considered in context...

...I agree that animal sacrifice will continue...its clear that during the millennium its a requirement...

...if therefore its a requirement, we need to consider not only who will be administering this commandment, but who will be required to offer sacrifice...

...we know that nothing that defileth can enter into the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven (Rev 21)...

...we also know, that during this period (millennium), the nations that have come up to battle against Israel, will burn (Zachariah 14: 12-13)...

...now, we know that not all the nations that have battled against Jerusalem will be destroyed...Christ's love and mercy will give every repentant heart a chance to turn away from wickedness...

...for those nations that remain, having previously fought against Christ...these will be required to come up to Jerusalem year on year to offer sacrifice or suffer the plagues of Egypt...

...two separate things are taking place during the millennium...

1 the righteous who have overcome Babylon through repentance and turning to Christ (baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost)...will inherit a place at the throne of Christ (new Jerusalem)...

2 the nations that remain, who have previously fought against Christ, but having realised the error of their sinful ways, have turned to Christ...(outside new Jerusalem)...these are they that are required to continue their journey of deliverance, and continue to obey Christ and show their willingness to grow beyond the law of sacrifice...until their spirit has been renewed (born again)...

...remember, turning to Christ is just the beginning...once a man has turned to Christ, he or she must labour diligently to prove worthy of greater glory...that of the spirit...

...for all those that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 23 & 24)...

...all laws lead to Christ...but in order to rule and reign with him...man is required to deliver up his heart...

...no mortal or physical ordinance can save, but it must be practiced, (sacrifice and baptism) as a witness for mortal man, who is not yet saved, to continue his journey of redemption, by being prepared to follow every command of Christ, until they have been redeemed...

...Christ is perfect but we are not...

...if Christ therefore, is willing to offer redemption to the wicked...how then should we act towards our fellow man?...

...we need to move beyond our mortal tendencies to criticise and take offence where none is given...

...I appreciate the work you do...even though I don't necessarily agree with your musings...I can still find a place in my heart to appreciate the great work you do...

...we need to be prepared to teach by the spirit...

...in order to teach by the spirit, we must be willing to be led by the spirit...we must not let our own zeal compromise the good work we have done...

...when we can show Christ that our spirit is greater than our zeal...

...he will speak...

But he is.

Yes the Mighty and Strong One, https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/might ... trong-one/ , will be bringing back Torah, burnt offerings, animal sacrifices as I explain here https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/04/07/impo ... ing-dates/ . But this thread is how the daily two lambs was a punishment and ended at Yeshua's cross which is also known as carnal commandments, blood sacrifices and Law of Moses. At https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ I show this with quotes from Joseph Smith, OT, NT, BoM, JST, and D&C. There is clearly a difference between Torah and Law of Moses. Yeshua wants us to be like Him, and thus keep Torah https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/ .

...but is that really the point though?...

...I'm right, your wrong?...

...how many times have you been absolutely sure of a thing...only to realise, later, that your knowledge has expanded to reveal even more than you may have previously considered...

...Christ is more concerned about the condition of our heart, than how much we think we know...

...have you never been mistaken?...

...I can assure you, Joseph, the BOM & D&C are not the undefiled work, Mormons believe they are...

...but if our focus is Christ...what does it matter?...is Christ not enough?...

...sadly, in LDS circles, Christ is "numero dos", by a country mile...

[BigT]

[SJR3t2]

For now on I will respond with the following

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

Steven, your club of backlisted individuals continues to grow. If Seeker asks for forgiveness for any misunderstandings, don't you think you should forgive?

not going to answer you, because discussions with you never go anywhere.

[SJR3t2]

I didn't say we should not eat meat, I said it isn't particularly good for us.
Also, Adam & Eve were told to eat fruit. No meat was eaten in the Garden, or for some considerable time afterwards.
Meat eating, in my view, is a characteristic of our deeply fallen nature, and though permitted, is not ideal. It will be abandoned when Zion is established.

It is good for us, and to keep all of YHWH's commandments we have to eat meat. Adam and Eve ate meat. Meat will be eaten in Zion.

I doubt very much that meat will be eaten in Zion. Adam and Eve (us) will return to the Garden from which we were expelled. The Garden is situated in an area between corruptibility (matter as we know it) and incorruptibility (something permanent) and death was not present in the Garden. Adam and Eve became mortal when they were expelled from the Garden, given coats of skins (mortal bodies) and were now forced to eat food for survival. Meat is made from dead bodies and if there is no death in the Garden there are no dead animals to consume. Also, why would an immortal body rely on food that came from a corrupt kingdom such as ours?

Mike

Meat eating is a commandment in Torah. And our bodies need meat. No where in scriptures does it state that animals will be immortal.

I preached to a large congregation at the stand, on the science and practice of MEDICINE, desiring to persuade the Saints to TRUST in GOD when SICK, and not in an ARM OF FLESH, and live by FAITH and not by MEDICINE, or POISON; and when they were SICK, and had called for the Elders to PRAY for them, and they were not healed, to use HERBS and MILD FOOD.
Joseph Smith; Documentary History of the Church, Volume 4, page 414; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Trust in God When Sick, 1841 Sep 05
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/health/

[SJR3t2]

...I don't think he is...

...everything Christ teaches must be considered in context...

...I agree that animal sacrifice will continue...its clear that during the millennium its a requirement...

...if therefore its a requirement, we need to consider not only who will be administering this commandment, but who will be required to offer sacrifice...

...we know that nothing that defileth can enter into the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven (Rev 21)...

...we also know, that during this period (millennium), the nations that have come up to battle against Israel, will burn (Zachariah 14: 12-13)...

...now, we know that not all the nations that have battled against Jerusalem will be destroyed...Christ's love and mercy will give every repentant heart a chance to turn away from wickedness...

...for those nations that remain, having previously fought against Christ...these will be required to come up to Jerusalem year on year to offer sacrifice or suffer the plagues of Egypt...

...two separate things are taking place during the millennium...

1 the righteous who have overcome Babylon through repentance and turning to Christ (baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost)...will inherit a place at the throne of Christ (new Jerusalem)...

2 the nations that remain, who have previously fought against Christ, but having realised the error of their sinful ways, have turned to Christ...(outside new Jerusalem)...these are they that are required to continue their journey of deliverance, and continue to obey Christ and show their willingness to grow beyond the law of sacrifice...until their spirit has been renewed (born again)...

...remember, turning to Christ is just the beginning...once a man has turned to Christ, he or she must labour diligently to prove worthy of greater glory...that of the spirit...

...for all those that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 23 & 24)...

...all laws lead to Christ...but in order to rule and reign with him...man is required to deliver up his heart...

...no mortal or physical ordinance can save, but it must be practiced, (sacrifice and baptism) as a witness for mortal man, who is not yet saved, to continue his journey of redemption, by being prepared to follow every command of Christ, until they have been redeemed...

...Christ is perfect but we are not...

...if Christ therefore, is willing to offer redemption to the wicked...how then should we act towards our fellow man?...

...we need to move beyond our mortal tendencies to criticise and take offence where none is given...

...I appreciate the work you do...even though I don't necessarily agree with your musings...I can still find a place in my heart to appreciate the great work you do...

...we need to be prepared to teach by the spirit...

...in order to teach by the spirit, we must be willing to be led by the spirit...we must not let our own zeal compromise the good work we have done...

...when we can show Christ that our spirit is greater than our zeal...

...he will speak...

But he is.

Yes the Mighty and Strong One, https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/might ... trong-one/ , will be bringing back Torah, burnt offerings, animal sacrifices as I explain here https://seekingyhwh.org/2024/04/07/impo ... ing-dates/ . But this thread is how the daily two lambs was a punishment and ended at Yeshua's cross which is also known as carnal commandments, blood sacrifices and Law of Moses. At https://seekingyhwh.org/law-of-moses/ I show this with quotes from Joseph Smith, OT, NT, BoM, JST, and D&C. There is clearly a difference between Torah and Law of Moses. Yeshua wants us to be like Him, and thus keep Torah https://seekingyhwh.org/torah/ .

...but is that really the point though?...

...I'm right, your wrong?...

...how many times have you been absolutely sure of a thing...only to realise, later, that your knowledge has expanded to reveal even more than you may have previously considered...

...Christ is more concerned about the condition of our heart, than how much we think we know...

...have you never been mistaken?...

...I can assure you, Joseph, the BOM & D&C are not the undefiled work, Mormons believe they are...

...but if our focus is Christ...what does it matter?...is Christ not enough?...

...sadly, in LDS circles, Christ is "numero dos", by a country mile...

Read the title of the thread, it is the point.

[MikeMaillet]

It is good for us, and to keep all of YHWH's commandments we have to eat meat. Adam and Eve ate meat. Meat will be eaten in Zion.

I doubt very much that meat will be eaten in Zion. Adam and Eve (us) will return to the Garden from which we were expelled. The Garden is situated in an area between corruptibility (matter as we know it) and incorruptibility (something permanent) and death was not present in the Garden. Adam and Eve became mortal when they were expelled from the Garden, given coats of skins (mortal bodies) and were now forced to eat food for survival. Meat is made from dead bodies and if there is no death in the Garden there are no dead animals to consume. Also, why would an immortal body rely on food that came from a corrupt kingdom such as ours?

Mike

Meat eating is a commandment in Torah. And our bodies need meat. No where in scriptures does it state that animals will be immortal.

I preached to a large congregation at the stand, on the science and practice of MEDICINE, desiring to persuade the Saints to TRUST in GOD when SICK, and not in an ARM OF FLESH, and live by FAITH and not by MEDICINE, or POISON; and when they were SICK, and had called for the Elders to PRAY for them, and they were not healed, to use HERBS and MILD FOOD.
Joseph Smith; Documentary History of the Church, Volume 4, page 414; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Trust in God When Sick, 1841 Sep 05
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/health/

I was speaking about eating meat in Zion/Garden and not the corruptible earth on which we live.

Mike