The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

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Bronco73idi
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Posts: 3846

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 2:41 pm
Luke wrote: June 24th, 2024, 10:38 am
ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 10:16 am

What is the fullness?
What is exaltation?

By your understanding it seems that one could receive the fullness without being "exalted".

How does that make sense?
The Fullness of what? What exactly are you referring to? Be direct…
I guess you are playing coy. I can't imagine that you didn't know what was meant, especially in the context of "exaltation."

And will you illustrate "exaltation" in the scriptures?

His fulness

75And the LORD showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world. And he saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy.

11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

16For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fulness.

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

10And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

20And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

56They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60And they shall overcome all things.
61Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.

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ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4323

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2024, 3:25 pm
ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 2:41 pm
Luke wrote: June 24th, 2024, 10:38 am

The Fullness of what? What exactly are you referring to? Be direct…
I guess you are playing coy. I can't imagine that you didn't know what was meant, especially in the context of "exaltation."

And will you illustrate "exaltation" in the scriptures?

His fulness

75And the LORD showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world. And he saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy.

11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

16For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fulness.

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

10And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

20And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

56They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60And they shall overcome all things.
61Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.
#1 no one has said anything, so there has been nothing to twist.

#2 asking questions is not twisting things

#3 you are reading a lot into those passages in Luke.

#4 That means exaltation? This is your demonstration from the scriptures?

#5 my specific mention was about the fullness. So yes what you cited in Luke is a part of that

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I Dont Know...
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Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by I Dont Know... »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: June 24th, 2024, 12:36 pm
Mindfields wrote: June 24th, 2024, 12:10 pm Ah, so the Book of Mormon doesn't actually contain the "Fullness of the Gospel" And the Salvation offered in the Book of Mormon is for the average person while the never mentioned Exaltation is only for the enlightened. Got it.
For giggles, I searched “exaltation” in the BoM. Zero results.

Maybe this is a glass half-empty/half-full kind of puzzle w/ regard to the “fullness”. :)
...well, wait a minute...that's your problem right there...why are you searching scripture when you could just as easily search the words of living Pharisees, I mean prophets...

Bronco73idi
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Posts: 3846

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 6:16 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2024, 3:25 pm
ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 2:41 pm
I guess you are playing coy. I can't imagine that you didn't know what was meant, especially in the context of "exaltation."

And will you illustrate "exaltation" in the scriptures?

His fulness

75And the LORD showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world. And he saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy.

11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

16For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fulness.

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

10And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

20And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

56They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60And they shall overcome all things.
61Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.
#1 no one has said anything, so there has been nothing to twist.

#2 asking questions is not twisting things

#3 you are reading a lot into those passages in Luke.

#4 That means exaltation? This is your demonstration from the scriptures?

#5 my specific mention was about the fullness. So yes what you cited in Luke is a part of that
I had one question for you and you ignored it and then have the audacity to ask me 5. The irony, they know not what they do or say.

“28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?”

Do you need more useless words in my question?

Like, what is Jesus promising his disciples that continue with him in his temptations?

If it’s salvation would that not mean that everyone that is saved will get a kingdom like the lord?

If that is true why did the hypothetical seven brothers, who married one woman after each one died, only get saved and become like an angel?

Maybe it means nothing and we should be atheists and celebrate the God of nothing!

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Posts: 1263
Location: A galaxy far, far away

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

PeaceBeStill wrote: June 23rd, 2024, 1:03 pm ...stated in D&C.132 before Brigham altered it to be plural marriage.

Are any of the covenants made in our temples really required and necessary for our salvation and exaltation?
Brigham altered the temple ceremony, too.

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ransomme
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Posts: 4323

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2024, 3:25 pm
ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 2:41 pm
Luke wrote: June 24th, 2024, 10:38 am

The Fullness of what? What exactly are you referring to? Be direct…
I guess you are playing coy. I can't imagine that you didn't know what was meant, especially in the context of "exaltation."

And will you illustrate "exaltation" in the scriptures?

His fulness

75And the LORD showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world. And he saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy.

11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

16For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fulness.

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

10And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

20And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

56They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60And they shall overcome all things.
61Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.
So Luke 22, I'll try to be quick. I understand why you see exaltation in this passage, because the KJV reads, "I appoint unto you a kingdom..."

But what is the context?

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


Then He institutes the first sacrament. And then...

24 ¶ And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.


Jesus mildly admonishes them and tells them to leave Babylon, put off the natural man/desires, and follow Him. Following the rebuke the Lord softens His speech and gives them recognition for their faithfulness.
28 “Ye are they that have continued with Me in My temptations. (“You are the ones who have remained with me in my trials. (NET))
"ὑμεῖς δέ, but ye, the δέ making transition from words of correction to a more congenial style of address.—οἱ διαμεμενηκότες, who have continued all through; the perfect participle, pointing them out as in possession of a permanent character, a body of thoroughly tried, faithful men.—πειρασμοῖς, in my temptations, pointing to all past experiences fitted to try faith and patience." - {Expositor's Greek Testament}

Next the Lord goes into their reward for enduring.
29 And I appoint unto you a Kingdom, as My Father hath appointed unto Me, {NKJV}
29 Thus[a] I grant to you a kingdom,[c] just as my Father granted to me, {NET}
Footnotes
{A} Here καί (kai) has been translated as “thus” to indicate the implied result of the disciples’ perseverance with Jesus.
{B} With the statement “I grant to you a kingdom” Jesus gave the disciples authority over the kingdom, as God had given him such authority. The present tense looks at authority given presently, though the major manifestation of its presence is yet to come as the next verse shows.
{C} Or “I give you the right to rule” (cf. CEV). For this translation of διατίθεμαι βασιλείαν (diatithemai basileian) see L&N 37.105.

It is about inheriting in/with Christ, ruling with Christ. Of course we need to be faithful, and adopted by Him. Here Paul teaches this same doctrine, that "If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us." (2 Timothy 2:12)

Definitions from the text:
Kingdom: Original Word: βασιλεία - Strong's 932: basileia
basileia is constantly used in connection with the rule of Christ in the hearts of believers –
1. royal power, kingship, dominion, rule:
2. a kingdom
3. Frequent N. T. reference to the Reign of the Messiah

To Appoint / Grant: Original Word: διατίθεμαι - Strong's 1303: diatithémi
Definition: to place separately, dispose of by a will
Usage: (a) I appoint, make (of a covenant), (b) I make (a will).
διατίθεμαι - verb, from which is formed the noun for “covenant,” or “testament.” In Hebrews 9:17 we find ὁ διαθέμενος, "a testator." - {Expositor's Greek Testament & Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers}

Here is the kicker that makes clear the meaning.
30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit[a] on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Footnotes
{A}This verb is future indicative, and thus not subordinate to “grant” (διατίθεμαι, diatithemai) as part of the result clause beginning with ἵνα ἔσθητε (hina esthēte) at the beginning of v. 30. It is better understood as a predictive future.
{B} The statement you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel looks at the future authority the Twelve will have when Jesus returns. They will share in Israel’s judgment.

It is about ruling and reigning at His table in His kingdom and sit as judges over Israel.

In summary, what you referenced does not match your interpretation.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3846

Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by Bronco73idi »

[youtube][/youtube]
ransomme wrote: June 26th, 2024, 2:54 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2024, 3:25 pm
ransomme wrote: June 24th, 2024, 2:41 pm
I guess you are playing coy. I can't imagine that you didn't know what was meant, especially in the context of "exaltation."

And will you illustrate "exaltation" in the scriptures?

His fulness

75And the LORD showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world. And he saw the day of the righteous, the hour of their redemption, and received a fulness of joy.

11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

16For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God; for God giveth him not the Spirit by measure, for he dwelleth in him, even the fulness.

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

10And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

20And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

56They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60And they shall overcome all things.
61Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.
So Luke 22, I'll try to be quick. I understand why you see exaltation in this passage, because the KJV reads, "I appoint unto you a kingdom..."

But what is the context?

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


Then He institutes the first sacrament. And then...

24 ¶ And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.


Jesus mildly admonishes them and tells them to leave Babylon, put off the natural man/desires, and follow Him. Following the rebuke the Lord softens His speech and gives them recognition for their faithfulness.
28 “Ye are they that have continued with Me in My temptations. (“You are the ones who have remained with me in my trials. (NET))
"ὑμεῖς δέ, but ye, the δέ making transition from words of correction to a more congenial style of address.—οἱ διαμεμενηκότες, who have continued all through; the perfect participle, pointing them out as in possession of a permanent character, a body of thoroughly tried, faithful men.—πειρασμοῖς, in my temptations, pointing to all past experiences fitted to try faith and patience." - {Expositor's Greek Testament}

Next the Lord goes into their reward for enduring.
29 And I appoint unto you a Kingdom, as My Father hath appointed unto Me, {NKJV}
29 Thus[a] I grant to you a kingdom,[c] just as my Father granted to me, {NET}
Footnotes
{A} Here καί (kai) has been translated as “thus” to indicate the implied result of the disciples’ perseverance with Jesus.
{B} With the statement “I grant to you a kingdom” Jesus gave the disciples authority over the kingdom, as God had given him such authority. The present tense looks at authority given presently, though the major manifestation of its presence is yet to come as the next verse shows.
{C} Or “I give you the right to rule” (cf. CEV). For this translation of διατίθεμαι βασιλείαν (diatithemai basileian) see L&N 37.105.

It is about inheriting in/with Christ, ruling with Christ. Of course we need to be faithful, and adopted by Him. Here Paul teaches this same doctrine, that "If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us." (2 Timothy 2:12)

Definitions from the text:
Kingdom: Original Word: βασιλεία - Strong's 932: basileia
basileia is constantly used in connection with the rule of Christ in the hearts of believers –
1. royal power, kingship, dominion, rule:
2. a kingdom
3. Frequent N. T. reference to the Reign of the Messiah

To Appoint / Grant: Original Word: διατίθεμαι - Strong's 1303: diatithémi
Definition: to place separately, dispose of by a will
Usage: (a) I appoint, make (of a covenant), (b) I make (a will).
διατίθεμαι - verb, from which is formed the noun for “covenant,” or “testament.” In Hebrews 9:17 we find ὁ διαθέμενος, "a testator." - {Expositor's Greek Testament & Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers}

Here is the kicker that makes clear the meaning.
30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit[a] on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Footnotes
{A}This verb is future indicative, and thus not subordinate to “grant” (διατίθεμαι, diatithemai) as part of the result clause beginning with ἵνα ἔσθητε (hina esthēte) at the beginning of v. 30. It is better understood as a predictive future.
{B} The statement you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel looks at the future authority the Twelve will have when Jesus returns. They will share in Israel’s judgment.

.


Thank you for giving a thoughtful answer.

To say with a certainty

“It is about ruling and reigning at His table in His kingdom and sit as judges over Israel.

In summary, what you referenced does not match your interpretation.”

Is offensive, especially since you brought in a bible that was translated from 1995-2001.

“It is about ruling and reigning at His table in His kingdom and sit as judges over Israel.”

This statement, brings up more questions than answers in the limited understanding of the typical Christian translation of salvation. Which I think you agree with and it helps separate yourself from BY.

Who gets to sit at his table and judge?

Only the twelve? The ones who didn’t have enough faith to cure a lunatic.

Why can’t the seven brothers sit at his table or can they?

Can I please request that if you want to quote something other then what is in our Cannon. That it be from the source language directly to English. I looked this up in “bible hub” Greek to English and it is pretty direct, like my interpretation of it.

Thus all footnotes of “scholars of men” are opinions.

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ransomme
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Re: The only Covenant God commands of us is the New and Everlasting Covenant...

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: June 26th, 2024, 7:09 pm [youtube][/youtube]
ransomme wrote: June 26th, 2024, 2:54 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: June 24th, 2024, 3:25 pm

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Salvation or exaltation?

Is everyone who is save getting a kingdom?

Keep twisting the Lord’s words to fit your understanding.
So Luke 22, I'll try to be quick. I understand why you see exaltation in this passage, because the KJV reads, "I appoint unto you a kingdom..."

But what is the context?

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


Then He institutes the first sacrament. And then...

24 ¶ And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.


Jesus mildly admonishes them and tells them to leave Babylon, put off the natural man/desires, and follow Him. Following the rebuke the Lord softens His speech and gives them recognition for their faithfulness.
28 “Ye are they that have continued with Me in My temptations. (“You are the ones who have remained with me in my trials. (NET))
"ὑμεῖς δέ, but ye, the δέ making transition from words of correction to a more congenial style of address.—οἱ διαμεμενηκότες, who have continued all through; the perfect participle, pointing them out as in possession of a permanent character, a body of thoroughly tried, faithful men.—πειρασμοῖς, in my temptations, pointing to all past experiences fitted to try faith and patience." - {Expositor's Greek Testament}

Next the Lord goes into their reward for enduring.
29 And I appoint unto you a Kingdom, as My Father hath appointed unto Me, {NKJV}
29 Thus[a] I grant to you a kingdom,[c] just as my Father granted to me, {NET}
Footnotes
{A} Here καί (kai) has been translated as “thus” to indicate the implied result of the disciples’ perseverance with Jesus.
{B} With the statement “I grant to you a kingdom” Jesus gave the disciples authority over the kingdom, as God had given him such authority. The present tense looks at authority given presently, though the major manifestation of its presence is yet to come as the next verse shows.
{C} Or “I give you the right to rule” (cf. CEV). For this translation of διατίθεμαι βασιλείαν (diatithemai basileian) see L&N 37.105.

It is about inheriting in/with Christ, ruling with Christ. Of course we need to be faithful, and adopted by Him. Here Paul teaches this same doctrine, that "If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us." (2 Timothy 2:12)

Definitions from the text:
Kingdom: Original Word: βασιλεία - Strong's 932: basileia
basileia is constantly used in connection with the rule of Christ in the hearts of believers –
1. royal power, kingship, dominion, rule:
2. a kingdom
3. Frequent N. T. reference to the Reign of the Messiah

To Appoint / Grant: Original Word: διατίθεμαι - Strong's 1303: diatithémi
Definition: to place separately, dispose of by a will
Usage: (a) I appoint, make (of a covenant), (b) I make (a will).
διατίθεμαι - verb, from which is formed the noun for “covenant,” or “testament.” In Hebrews 9:17 we find ὁ διαθέμενος, "a testator." - {Expositor's Greek Testament & Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers}

Here is the kicker that makes clear the meaning.
30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit[a] on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Footnotes
{A}This verb is future indicative, and thus not subordinate to “grant” (διατίθεμαι, diatithemai) as part of the result clause beginning with ἵνα ἔσθητε (hina esthēte) at the beginning of v. 30. It is better understood as a predictive future.
{B} The statement you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel looks at the future authority the Twelve will have when Jesus returns. They will share in Israel’s judgment.

.


Thank you for giving a thoughtful answer.

To say with a certainty

“It is about ruling and reigning at His table in His kingdom and sit as judges over Israel.

In summary, what you referenced does not match your interpretation.”

Is offensive, especially since you brought in a bible that was translated from 1995-2001.

“It is about ruling and reigning at His table in His kingdom and sit as judges over Israel.”

This statement, brings up more questions than answers in the limited understanding of the typical Christian translation of salvation. Which I think you agree with and it helps separate yourself from BY.

Who gets to sit at his table and judge?

Only the twelve? The ones who didn’t have enough faith to cure a lunatic.

Why can’t the seven brothers sit at his table or can they?

Can I please request that if you want to quote something other then what is in our Cannon. That it be from the source language directly to English. I looked this up in “bible hub” Greek to English and it is pretty direct, like my interpretation of it.

Thus all footnotes of “scholars of men” are opinions.


I always read several translations at once side by side. The NET Bible is very transparent on why they translated things the way they did. It is heavily for foot-noted with details about the translation. It was also translated by a a large group of scholars, which were purposefully from many different denominations.

I usually start with the NKJV, and also put up the NET, the LSB, YLT, Jewish Orthodox bible, and swap around another one for fun like the NASB, Geneva, a couple Russian ones, the Finnish one (based off the German bible), etc

I also look at the interlinear and sometimes take a peak at a collection of many commentaries, just to see if there is anything there worthwhile that may trigger inspiration.

Looking at the Greek of the NT helps because then I can see where else a word has been used in the NT and how else a word gets used/translated. I look at words individually in Strong's to get a better feel for a particular word.

As Add to that context, and it helps a ton. Keywords and cross-referencing are paramount. I don't want to fall into the trap of reading a verse in isolation.

I don't know all the particulars about ruling and reigning with Christ. Or why Jesus said to His earthly apostles that they would sit as judges over Israel. It was just clear that Jesus was covenanting with them to give them rulership, kingship, authority to rule in His kingdom.

But it seems consistent with the scriptures that talk about inheriting with the Christ.

There is no need to take offense. I was not intending to offend, but I wanted to be clear.

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