Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

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White
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Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by White »

Eliza R Snow wrote many poems. She was great at writing poems. O My Father is one of those, she delves into the topic of Heavenly Mother, but she went into more details about Heavenly Mother on many occasions, but have you ever heard those hymns in song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JoemAOpIqM

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Rose Nier Babalonia
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Rose Nier Babalonia »

That was Amazing. Thankyou so much for sharing this. Oh how I adore Eliza she revealed many grand things.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by JLHPROF »

Adam God was widely believed in by the late 1860s. It was part of the temple teachings, dozens of discourses, and much discussion.
Is it any surprise that there were hymns/poems about it too?

There were more than just these ones.

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ParticleMan
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by ParticleMan »

Did not Joseph teach Eliza privately some of the revelations he had had that he did not teach publicly, only a small portion thereof privately to others? And did not Eliza also receive her own revelations, including along the lines of Joseph's private teachings?

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Rose Nier Babalonia
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Rose Nier Babalonia »

ParticleMan wrote: May 26th, 2024, 5:13 pm Did not Joseph teach Eliza privately some of the revelations he had had that he did not teach publicly, only a small portion thereof privately to others? And did not Eliza also receive her own revelations, including along the lines of Joseph's private teachings?
Indeed she did. She was second president in the reliefs society. And wife of both Joseph and Brigham. And sister to Lorenzo snow. It's been said that her and Emma did not get along.

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ParticleMan
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by ParticleMan »

Brigham was said to have "let the cat out of the bag." But are there not, as it were, more "bags"?

Did Eliza learn more from Joseph than did Brigham? I have heard there are unpublished journals of Eliza that contain some of this sacred knowledge. If true, and anyone can corroborate; or moreover, has access, I would be most interested.

I desire to learn and feel what has been made known to the Prophet of the Restoration and to Zion's Poetess, Eliza R. Snow Smith.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

ParticleMan wrote: May 26th, 2024, 5:13 pm Did not Joseph teach Eliza privately some of the revelations he had had that he did not teach publicly, only a small portion thereof privately to others? And did not Eliza also receive her own revelations, including along the lines of Joseph's private teachings?
Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.

I honestly think she was a barren old maid that had a wild imagination. An attention &#$@$ of the worst kind.

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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by OneEternalRound »

"What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."
- Joseph Smith

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Luke
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Luke »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 26th, 2024, 7:45 pm Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.
No she did not. What on earth are you talking about?

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gkearney
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by gkearney »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 26th, 2024, 7:45 pm

Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.
.
Where is the documentation for this claim?

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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

gkearney wrote: May 27th, 2024, 3:41 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 26th, 2024, 7:45 pm

Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.
.
Where is the documentation for this claim?
I'll prob have to dig to find it, but I've read the claim/ accounts several times. She claimed that Joseph and Hyrum assaulted her (sexually) at the same time. Which makes it very odd that she would later clam to be sealed to him.

Mind you, I don't believe the claim. One of the biggest problems with Ms. snow is that there are so many conflicting versions of her story. They range from the above account to being gang raped by eight Missourians, to being impregnated by Joseph causing Emma to throw her down the stairs causing miscarriage, to another version in which Emma violates her with a broom handle, rendering her infertile.

At the sum of it all, once again stands the fact that the Prophet declared to his dying breath that he never had but one wife. Either Joseph was a liar of the worst kind, including to his dear Emma who also denied it, or perhaps Ms Snow and others had ulterior motives to tell such lies.

Ms Snow was also fond of 'revealing' doctrine that was supposedly taught to her in secret by her (secret) husband. Conveniently with no other witnesses.

Do you see a pattern here? Because it looks an awful lot like a barren old spinster desperately seeking for importance/ attention.

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ransomme
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by ransomme »

JLHPROF wrote: May 26th, 2024, 2:51 pm Adam God was widely believed in by the late 1860s. It was part of the temple teachings, dozens of discourses, and much discussion.
Is it any surprise that there were hymns/poems about it too?

There were more than just these ones.
Widely believed? That must be why it was abandoned so quickly after Brigham died.

Brigham tried peddling his AGT, but it seems that it mostly only took with zealot fundamentalist types.

And as I recall, it wasn't until very late and only in St George that it was actually apart of an expanded instruction at the veil. Like only six months before Brigham died.

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gkearney
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by gkearney »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am
gkearney wrote: May 27th, 2024, 3:41 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 26th, 2024, 7:45 pm

Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.
.
Where is the documentation for this claim?
I'll prob have to dig to find it, but I've read the claim/ accounts several times. She claimed that Joseph and Hyrum assaulted her (sexually) at the same time. Which makes it very odd that she would later clam to be sealed to him.

Mind you, I don't believe the claim. One of the biggest problems with Ms. snow is that there are so many conflicting versions of her story. They range from the above account to being gang raped by eight Missourians, to being impregnated by Joseph causing Emma to throw her down the stairs causing miscarriage, to another version in which Emma violates her with a broom handle, rendering her infertile.

At the sum of it all, once again stands the fact that the Prophet declared to his dying breath that he never had but one wife. Either Joseph was a liar of the worst kind, including to his dear Emma who also denied it, or perhaps Ms Snow and others had ulterior motives to tell such lies.

Ms Snow was also fond of 'revealing' doctrine that was supposedly taught to her in secret by her (secret) husband. Conveniently with no other witnesses.

Do you see a pattern here? Because it looks an awful lot like a barren old spinster desperately seeking for importance/ attention.
Far more than some ginned up story of a sexual assault, which more than likely would have originated not with Snow but with enemies of Joseph. Is the unanswered question, in the case of early Church plural marriage, of the total lack of any children born to the unions of Joseph Smith, Jr. and the supposed bevy of women he is alleged to have had as wives.

In an age with no real effective means of birth control there would have been children produced. This given the fact that many of Joseph alleged plural wives would go on to have families following his death and we know that Joseph himself was capable of producing children. Yet they only DNA evidence of children through Joseph Smith come from the children born to Emma and not other womanm dissipate many efforts to prove otherwise.

Until such time as the lack of children being born to all these alleged unions between Joseph and these women can be explained I will need to withhold judgement upon the question of Joseph's involvement in plural marriage in his lifetime.
Last edited by gkearney on May 28th, 2024, 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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tacocat
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by tacocat »

Eliza r Snow seems to be a good example of how each person is a mixed bag of truth and deception. And both truth and deception can differ in objectivity and subjectivity. I believe that what she wrote about a Mother in Heaven to be true, but there are other things that she wrote that seem very at odds with things I know to be true.

I have some real beef with Brigham Young and some of the things that he taught and did, but there are some things that he said or did that I really like and ring true to me. It is possible to be a tyrannical monstrous dictator, and also be a pretty good guy in some other ways. Case in point, Adolf Hitler made some really fine paintings.

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White
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by White »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am
gkearney wrote: May 27th, 2024, 3:41 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 26th, 2024, 7:45 pm

Let's not forget that Eliza not only claimed to be married to Joseph, but previously claimed to have been raped by both Joseph and Hyrum.
.
Where is the documentation for this claim?
let me repeat the lies devils have perpetuated through hands of murderers and liars
tacocat wrote: May 27th, 2024, 8:19 am Let me fall onto the fence and neither deny all righteousness or fall into complete apostasy, so that I will always hear the voice of angels and the assaults of demons. and then talk about hitler and his art.
When the secrets of the highest portions of your spiritual memory are bumped into you turn and burn those who opened those doors for you. Aught I to draw up quotes and stories to disprove your accusations... I don't have time for that, those who really want to know the truth can dig it up on their own, and those who swim into the depths of doubt go there by choice. Eliza R Snow was a holier woman than any of you will ever know. Life is messy, but she wasn't part of that messiness. I swear that on my life, and encourage those who listen to the Lord to go in prayer, Joseph and those who stood by him after his death will inherit celestial life of some grand sort, those who turn against him will be swallowed up by the demons of hell in their confusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkrjck_pFsw

Peeps2.0
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Peeps2.0 »

tacocat wrote: May 27th, 2024, 8:19 am Eliza r Snow seems to be a good example of how each person is a mixed bag of truth and deception. And both truth and deception can differ in objectivity and subjectivity. I believe that what she wrote about a Mother in Heaven to be true, but there are other things that she wrote that seem very at odds with things I know to be true.

I have some real beef with Brigham Young and some of the things that he taught and did, but there are some things that he said or did that I really like and ring true to me. It is possible to be a tyrannical monstrous dictator, and also be a pretty good guy in some other ways. Case in point, Adolf Hitler made some really fine paintings.
Lucifer also has a lighter, shiny side.
Image
He uses it in a similar fashion as this angler fish.

2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

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tacocat
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by tacocat »

White wrote: May 27th, 2024, 10:35 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am
gkearney wrote: May 27th, 2024, 3:41 am

Where is the documentation for this claim?
let me repeat the lies devils have perpetuated through hands of murderers and liars
tacocat wrote: May 27th, 2024, 8:19 am Let me fall onto the fence and neither deny all righteousness or fall into complete apostasy, so that I will always hear the voice of angels and the assaults of demons. and then talk about hitler and his art.
You people are brimming with crap, a cesspool of confusion and senseless slander arrayed in a nasty mural. When the secrets of the highest portions of your spiritual memory are bumped into you turn and burn those who opened those doors for you. Aught I to draw up quotes and stories to disprove your accusations... I don't have time for that, those who really want to know the truth can dig it up on their own, and those who swim into the depths of doubt go there by choice. Eliza R Snow was a holier woman than any of you will ever know. Life is messy, but she wasn't part of that messiness. I swear that on my life, and encourage those who listen to the Lord to go in prayer, Joseph and those who stood by him after his death will inherit celestial life of some grand sort, those who turn against him will be swallowed up by the demons of hell in their confusion.
Is your name a reference to Walter White? You remind me of him.

I wonder how you would have reacted if someone else had rephrased your words in a false quote. The purpose of a forum is discussion, which fosters learning. Being able to change, or at least consider other views when presented with new information can be an indication of someone who is genuinely seeking truth.

You seem to have made up your mind on everything already. I hope you find whatever you're looking for, or at least whatever you need.

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Luke
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Luke »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am Do you see a pattern here? Because it looks an awful lot like a barren old spinster desperately seeking for importance/ attention.
Extremely unkind.

Also, some of JS’s other wives confirmed in separate accounts the things that ERSS claimed.

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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:00 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am Do you see a pattern here? Because it looks an awful lot like a barren old spinster desperately seeking for importance/ attention.
Extremely unkind.

Also, some of JS’s other wives confirmed in separate accounts the things that ERSS claimed.
And yet we must face the fact that, ugly as it may be, Joseph called Eliza and the rest of them LIARS. As did Emma and Hyrum. Someone is lying.

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Luke
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Luke »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:07 am
Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:00 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am Do you see a pattern here? Because it looks an awful lot like a barren old spinster desperately seeking for importance/ attention.
Extremely unkind.

Also, some of JS’s other wives confirmed in separate accounts the things that ERSS claimed.
And yet we must face the fact that, ugly as it may be, Joseph called Eliza and the rest of them LIARS. As did Emma and Hyrum. Someone is lying.
They all lied and told the truth at different times.

Eliza lied in 1842 in her affidavit and told the truth later on.

Joseph and Hyrum lied in public and told the truth in private.

Emma told the truth in private and lied in public.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

White wrote: May 27th, 2024, 10:35 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 5:52 am
gkearney wrote: May 27th, 2024, 3:41 am

Where is the documentation for this claim?
let me repeat the lies devils have perpetuated through hands of murderers and liars
tacocat wrote: May 27th, 2024, 8:19 am Let me fall onto the fence and neither deny all righteousness or fall into complete apostasy, so that I will always hear the voice of angels and the assaults of demons. and then talk about hitler and his art.
You people are brimming with crap, a cesspool of confusion and senseless slander arrayed in a nasty mural. When the secrets of the highest portions of your spiritual memory are bumped into you turn and burn those who opened those doors for you. Aught I to draw up quotes and stories to disprove your accusations... I don't have time for that, those who really want to know the truth can dig it up on their own, and those who swim into the depths of doubt go there by choice. Eliza R Snow was a holier woman than any of you will ever know. Life is messy, but she wasn't part of that messiness. I swear that on my life, and encourage those who listen to the Lord to go in prayer, Joseph and those who stood by him after his death will inherit celestial life of some grand sort, those who turn against him will be swallowed up by the demons of hell in their confusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkrjck_pFsw
I DO in fact stand with Joseph. Joseph who in fact swore till his dying breath that he had but one wife, and never taught nor practiced polygamy in the least degree. According to Joseph, that makes Ms. Snow the liar here, among others.

Interestingly, you throw the prophet under the bus and call him a horrible liar who snuck around with other women behind the back of his loyal and faithful wife. Choose to believe the fairy tales of lonesome old women, or believe the Prophet who brought forth the Book of Mormon. Choose wisely.

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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:10 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:07 am
Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:00 am

Extremely unkind.

Also, some of JS’s other wives confirmed in separate accounts the things that ERSS claimed.
And yet we must face the fact that, ugly as it may be, Joseph called Eliza and the rest of them LIARS. As did Emma and Hyrum. Someone is lying.
They all lied and told the truth at different times.

Eliza lied in 1842 in her affidavit and told the truth later on.

Joseph and Hyrum lied in public and told the truth in private.

Emma told the truth in private and lied in public.
Of course the man obsessed with polygamy believes this. I have no doubt you believe this. Again, it contradicts the sworn testimony of the Prophet himself. Sorry, mate. I'll take the word of JS over you, any day of the week.

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Luke
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by Luke »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:15 am
Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:10 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:07 am

And yet we must face the fact that, ugly as it may be, Joseph called Eliza and the rest of them LIARS. As did Emma and Hyrum. Someone is lying.
They all lied and told the truth at different times.

Eliza lied in 1842 in her affidavit and told the truth later on.

Joseph and Hyrum lied in public and told the truth in private.

Emma told the truth in private and lied in public.
Of course the man obsessed with polygamy believes this. I have no doubt you believe this. Again, it contradicts the sworn testimony of the Prophet himself. Sorry, mate. I'll take the word of JS over you, any day of the week.
Whatever.

It’s just a historical fact.

Further, I don’t understand why you seem invested in defending JS as far as polygamy is concerned. You deny baptism for the dead, tithing, and the Temple Ordinances (to name a few) — all of which are doctrines that he introduced. If he was that severely mistaken, why does it matter to you whether he was a polygamist or not?

blitzinstripes
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by blitzinstripes »

Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:20 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:15 am
Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:10 am

They all lied and told the truth at different times.

Eliza lied in 1842 in her affidavit and told the truth later on.

Joseph and Hyrum lied in public and told the truth in private.

Emma told the truth in private and lied in public.
Of course the man obsessed with polygamy believes this. I have no doubt you believe this. Again, it contradicts the sworn testimony of the Prophet himself. Sorry, mate. I'll take the word of JS over you, any day of the week.
Whatever.

It’s just a historical fact.

Further, I don’t understand why you seem invested in defending JS as far as polygamy is concerned. You deny baptism for the dead, tithing, and the Temple Ordinances (to name a few) — all of which are doctrines that he introduced. If he was that severely mistaken, why does it matter to you whether he was a polygamist or not?
He didn't teach tithing as a compulsory 10% of income, nor was it part of a requirement for a temple recommend. He did in fact teach baptism for the dead but again, it was in a much different context than today. You can read it for yourself in D&C. As for endowments, again. Quite a bit of evidence that today's endowment is a far different endeavor than Joseph originally taught and is more the work of Brigham and his successors.

The church of Joseph and the church of Brigham are two very different entities.

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White
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Re: Adam God Doctrine 80s song?!?

Post by White »

blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 12:28 pm
Luke wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:20 am
blitzinstripes wrote: May 27th, 2024, 11:15 am

Of course the man obsessed with polygamy believes this. I have no doubt you believe this. Again, it contradicts the sworn testimony of the Prophet himself. Sorry, mate. I'll take the word of JS over you, any day of the week.
Whatever.

It’s just a historical fact.

Further, I don’t understand why you seem invested in defending JS as far as polygamy is concerned. You deny baptism for the dead, tithing, and the Temple Ordinances (to name a few) — all of which are doctrines that he introduced. If he was that severely mistaken, why does it matter to you whether he was a polygamist or not?
i'm gonna cherry pick Josephs teachings because some are just too hard for me to swallow!

The church of Joseph and the church of Brigham are two very different entities inside of my mind because i decided thats the way it is and i'm always right!
Why did people say they saw Brigham Translated after Joseph's death? I mean even William Morgan 's wife was remarried to Joseph, her previous husband was also killed by the Free Masons... People sure get up on a high horse when it comes to multiple wives, but they dare never say a word of h0m0 practice in public, lest they face shame. Imagine marrying more than one person and actually not divorcing inbetween... Everyone I know has more than one wife, they just place a little divorce between. they were doing things right, furthermore, if polygamy is wrong, how do you explain the birth of Jesus??? God has more than one wife, and Marry is one of them. Lest Jesus is the result of adultery, as the jews who killed him claim. Will you sit on their side of the fence after this life? I sure hope not!

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