Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

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mudflap
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by mudflap »

ransomme wrote: May 19th, 2024, 12:52 am
mudflap wrote: May 18th, 2024, 2:20 pm
ransomme wrote: May 18th, 2024, 2:03 pm

It's liberty, not freedom

And it's what the country is founded on, not how it's been corrupted
Liberty can be defined as the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior, or political views. It emphasizes the rights of individuals to be left alone and make their own choices without interference from the government or other institutions. The idea of liberty is enshrined in the United States Constitution, which guarantees a number of fundamental freedoms such as freedom of speech, religion, and the press.

Freedom, on the other hand, refers to the ability to act or think as one wants without being hindered by outside forces. It is often associated with the idea of self-determination and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom is a more general concept that can be applied to a wide range of activities, from economic freedom to personal freedom.
so we had liberty for a good 50 years - that makes USA the only promised land on the continent? ha ha.
You are not looking at what the Book says. How is the word used in the scriptures?

2 Nephi 10
10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.
11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.

Where is the promised land? Where Zion will be?

It's the mountain/nation that Isaiah and Nephi saw:
Isaiah 2 / 2 Nephi 12
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.


Like above, it is very often specified that it is about having no king and not being in bondage, captivity. It's about maintaining their right to worship.

Spoiler alert: Mexico had a monarch following its independence from Spain in the 1820s.

Mosiah 29
39 Therefore, it came to pass that they assembled themselves together in bodies throughout the land, to cast in their voices concerning who should be their judges, to judge them according to the law which had been given them; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them.

Alma 21
22 And he also declared unto them that they might have the liberty of worshiping the Lord their God according to their desires, in whatsoever place they were in, if it were in the land which was under the reign of king Lamoni.

Alma 43
9 And now the design of the Nephites was to support their lands, and their houses, and their wives, and their children, that they might preserve them from the hands of their enemies; and also that they might preserve their rights and their privileges, yea, and also their liberty, that they might worship God according to their desires...(48)...with these thoughts—yea, the thoughts of their lands, their liberty, yea, their freedom from bondage.

Alma 46
10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

3 Nephi 6
30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.


But it is set upon conditions of righteousness.

Alma 58
40 But behold, they have received many wounds; nevertheless they stand fast in that liberty wherewith God has made them free; and they are strict to remember the Lord their God from day to day; yea, they do observe to keep his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments continually; and their faith is strong in the prophecies concerning that which is to come.

D&C 88
86 Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
I don't see "USA is where the BOM took place" in any of that.

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

As it is, the understanding back then, was that it encompassed all the land connected. which would include North, Central & South America. But one area was designated for Zion. From Zion inward, shall the ring of protection be expanded. As much will be consumed by negativity, not just the world, but in the Americas as well. You are reading it shall we say, too verbally, as Jesus would probably agree. You are making a mountain from the molehill. But then that is how Zion will expand, a little eventually becomes a lot.

For instance, as to the heartland model (that many claim), that is far away from Hopi Land in the Four Corners from New York. They too know of the Great Purification coming. The 9th and final sign of which is the Blue Star Kachina aka the Comet of Nostradamus, you will then know that you are smack dab in that talked about fulfillments.

P.S.- Zion is not in New York.

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

Folks, sometimes you just have to chill. As you recall, certain ones who got caught up in the letter of the law were criticized more by Jesus, than people who might have committed a sin. In other words, Jesus preached more of the heart of the law.

For instance, when asked which was the greatest of the 10 commandments, I prefer how he answered in the AG version of the NT. He explained that he saw a thread running thru the commandments which was LOVE. If you had true Love, you would not do those things it states not to do. I don't think anybody has really caught on. There are a lot of DO NOTs because misbehaving kids have to be governed until they can learn how to do it themselves.

But sadly people do not learn to govern themselves.

You will have to forgive my keyboard I have hooked up to my U-10 (a 2020 HP) laptop. It seems instead of just the shift key, the space bar & others are sticking now.

I set up this thread & the other one in to "share" about an alternative Hill Cumorah/Ramah aka Hill Rabon. You are free to chose which Hill Cumorah you wish. If it brings you to quarrel or start slinging a sword around, that tells me you are vulnerable & are lashing out due to fear of possibly having to change (adjust) your views. You can still stand on the ROCK without budging. You MUST become as a reed in the wind, allowed to bend in strong winds, or you will snap & then what good are you then.

I am not trying to cram something down your throat. I am simply presenting a "share". You can disregard it, question it, pursue investigation, and so on. So just because it is shared, you are the captain of your destiny. And I will be captain of my destiny.

When the scriptures speak of reasoning, it is not what one might view as rational or irrational, but learning to simmer down & walk in the other one's moccasins for just a tad, to get a better understanding of what, why, how, and where they are coming from. Not to pounce upon them & draw your sword. Heck that's like the Crusades. Its this way or death to you or the brigade (prison), That is not what Jesus came to assist for.

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

Let's see, I still have to try & get that other pic taken to be able to load into a post. It is from the village nearby, looking thru a construction site towards the cliff side of Hill Rabon.

Then on the twin thread (info/data), I need to post the next one, but I have not compiled it from previous data tracts I have pooled.

Plus I was supposed to go thru the two chapters of SEALED that I shared, as to the 3 stories of Rabon related to me , then the Real Deal (listening to the cassette tape, recounting the actual adventure to & at Rabon, in order to give you the real identities of the players involved.

Then there is the next post on the Seers & their Looking Devices which will be on Nostradamus. I have to have full concentration on that one, as I will be sharing new information that you may not know of. The problem with that, is I don't need to write it as a book, but a brief (if you can believe that is even possible).

Then almost ready to put the next one up on Crystals. I was going to cram in too much, so it might be in 3 parts, like Star Wars. I'll give you the one in the middle first (today), then the prequel, followed with the sequel.

I did order two refurbished Dell keyboards as this one is getting stickier & stickier. One to replace it with for another computer U-13, which has not been fired up yet- a refurbished Dell tower & one to use here with U-10 laptop. Come to think of it, I have never fired up U-9 which is a Naxa 10" tablet bundle, as I wanted faster internet out here to be able to work with it.

I better print this list so I can focus.

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ransomme
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by ransomme »

mudflap wrote: May 19th, 2024, 8:27 am
ransomme wrote: May 19th, 2024, 12:52 am
mudflap wrote: May 18th, 2024, 2:20 pm




so we had liberty for a good 50 years - that makes USA the only promised land on the continent? ha ha.
You are not looking at what the Book says. How is the word used in the scriptures?

2 Nephi 10
10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.
11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.

Where is the promised land? Where Zion will be?

It's the mountain/nation that Isaiah and Nephi saw:
Isaiah 2 / 2 Nephi 12
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.


Like above, it is very often specified that it is about having no king and not being in bondage, captivity. It's about maintaining their right to worship.

Spoiler alert: Mexico had a monarch following its independence from Spain in the 1820s.

Mosiah 29
39 Therefore, it came to pass that they assembled themselves together in bodies throughout the land, to cast in their voices concerning who should be their judges, to judge them according to the law which had been given them; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them.

Alma 21
22 And he also declared unto them that they might have the liberty of worshiping the Lord their God according to their desires, in whatsoever place they were in, if it were in the land which was under the reign of king Lamoni.

Alma 43
9 And now the design of the Nephites was to support their lands, and their houses, and their wives, and their children, that they might preserve them from the hands of their enemies; and also that they might preserve their rights and their privileges, yea, and also their liberty, that they might worship God according to their desires...(48)...with these thoughts—yea, the thoughts of their lands, their liberty, yea, their freedom from bondage.

Alma 46
10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

3 Nephi 6
30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.


But it is set upon conditions of righteousness.

Alma 58
40 But behold, they have received many wounds; nevertheless they stand fast in that liberty wherewith God has made them free; and they are strict to remember the Lord their God from day to day; yea, they do observe to keep his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments continually; and their faith is strong in the prophecies concerning that which is to come.

D&C 88
86 Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
I don't see "USA is where the BOM took place" in any of that.
It's the land, not the the USA. And you didn't even attempt to answer the simple questions I asked.

Through revelation we have been enlightened as to where Eden was and Zion will be. It is the land of promise, the same land to which Lehi was led. It is the same land that the prophets prophesied would be a great prosperous gentile nation, to which all nations would flow in the latter days.

Saw this today. He is from one of the tribes that the Lord specifically told Joseph to send missionaries to...

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mudflap
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by mudflap »

ransomme wrote: May 21st, 2024, 7:15 am
mudflap wrote: May 19th, 2024, 8:27 am
ransomme wrote: May 19th, 2024, 12:52 am

You are not looking at what the Book says. How is the word used in the scriptures?

2 Nephi 10
10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.
11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.

Where is the promised land? Where Zion will be?

It's the mountain/nation that Isaiah and Nephi saw:
Isaiah 2 / 2 Nephi 12
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.


Like above, it is very often specified that it is about having no king and not being in bondage, captivity. It's about maintaining their right to worship.

Spoiler alert: Mexico had a monarch following its independence from Spain in the 1820s.

Mosiah 29
39 Therefore, it came to pass that they assembled themselves together in bodies throughout the land, to cast in their voices concerning who should be their judges, to judge them according to the law which had been given them; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them.

Alma 21
22 And he also declared unto them that they might have the liberty of worshiping the Lord their God according to their desires, in whatsoever place they were in, if it were in the land which was under the reign of king Lamoni.

Alma 43
9 And now the design of the Nephites was to support their lands, and their houses, and their wives, and their children, that they might preserve them from the hands of their enemies; and also that they might preserve their rights and their privileges, yea, and also their liberty, that they might worship God according to their desires...(48)...with these thoughts—yea, the thoughts of their lands, their liberty, yea, their freedom from bondage.

Alma 46
10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

3 Nephi 6
30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.


But it is set upon conditions of righteousness.

Alma 58
40 But behold, they have received many wounds; nevertheless they stand fast in that liberty wherewith God has made them free; and they are strict to remember the Lord their God from day to day; yea, they do observe to keep his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments continually; and their faith is strong in the prophecies concerning that which is to come.

D&C 88
86 Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
I don't see "USA is where the BOM took place" in any of that.
And you didn't even attempt to answer the simple questions I asked.
neither did you, so I guess we're even.

grneal
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by grneal »

mudflap wrote: May 16th, 2024, 6:54 pm
ransomme wrote: May 16th, 2024, 5:36 pm
mudflap wrote: May 16th, 2024, 8:20 am

I just don't get why folks are so beholden to the heartland model - it doesn't make any sense. Every time someone explains the geography to me, I have to disbelieve what I see on a map to believe it.

Saying "it just fits" doesn't make it fit. I need proof, and the maps don't prove it. So then everyone resorts to "the revelations and prophecies" prove it - no they don't because there was no "USA" in 400 AD - there was just "the promised land", which Joseph Smith and the Angel Moroni said "are the North American Continent". So are we supposed to believe brother May and his heartland theory or are we supposed to believe the guy who conversed with the Angel Moroni?

I gotta go with Moroni and JS on this one. Who is brother May, and what "fantastic revelations" has he received? He's nobody.
But you don't go with Joseph, or Moroni or the Lord. (please provide a source then. And "it's obvious!" isn't a source)

It fits because they Lord sent Joseph where to speak to descendents of the Lamanites? (see below) Independence was on which border? Etc, etc.

It fits because only the United States fits the prophecies in the book (so does the rest of the north american continent). Has any other nation in the Americas been a land of liberty? (I wouldn't call a 40% tax rate "liberty" - but I already went over this. ugh. please go back and re-read the thread and all your questions will have answers) Any other have all nations flow into it? (this hasn't been fulfilled yet, IMO) Any other been as prosperous? (the poorest san salvadorian is richer than the poorest African, so yes) Etc, etc.
says you. there isn't A LICK of proof of anything you say. Lamanites can travel pretty far in a thousand years. The presence of Lamanites in MO isn't proof that the limits of the current USA borders define "the land of promise". I'm a native of Utah, living in Alabama. Does that mean Alabama is Utah? that's what you're saying with this argument.

Your homework: show me a quote where the Lord says "the USA is the land of the BOM".

And "the land of Liberty" is NOT specific enough because as I've already proven in this thread - I can make a really good case that MEXICO is freer than the USA.

here's one I already pointed out earlier that will throw a wrench in your heartland:
VOYAGE PATH OF LEHI REVEALED
Recorded in March 1836
By the Prophet Joseph
(The Bernhisel JST Manuscript, Page 135)
At Kirtland, Ohio

1 The course that Lehi traveled from the city of Jerusalem to the place where he and his family took ship:
2 They traveled nearly a south-southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of North latitude.
3 Then nearly east to the Sea of Arabia;
4 Then sailed in a Southeast direction, and landed on the continent of South America in Chile-- thirty degrees South latitude.
But May and Anderson IGNORE Joseph Smith and say the first landing was in Florida. So who's really ignoring Joseph Smith?
That isn't the slam dunk you think it is. I wouldn't hang your hat on that one. By the way, I am cool with either theory.
https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/vie ... text=byusq

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mudflap
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by mudflap »

grneal wrote: May 22nd, 2024, 7:39 pm
mudflap wrote: May 16th, 2024, 6:54 pm
ransomme wrote: May 16th, 2024, 5:36 pm

But you don't go with Joseph, or Moroni or the Lord. (please provide a source then. And "it's obvious!" isn't a source)

It fits because they Lord sent Joseph where to speak to descendents of the Lamanites? (see below) Independence was on which border? Etc, etc.

It fits because only the United States fits the prophecies in the book (so does the rest of the north american continent). Has any other nation in the Americas been a land of liberty? (I wouldn't call a 40% tax rate "liberty" - but I already went over this. ugh. please go back and re-read the thread and all your questions will have answers) Any other have all nations flow into it? (this hasn't been fulfilled yet, IMO) Any other been as prosperous? (the poorest san salvadorian is richer than the poorest African, so yes) Etc, etc.
says you. there isn't A LICK of proof of anything you say. Lamanites can travel pretty far in a thousand years. The presence of Lamanites in MO isn't proof that the limits of the current USA borders define "the land of promise". I'm a native of Utah, living in Alabama. Does that mean Alabama is Utah? that's what you're saying with this argument.

Your homework: show me a quote where the Lord says "the USA is the land of the BOM".

And "the land of Liberty" is NOT specific enough because as I've already proven in this thread - I can make a really good case that MEXICO is freer than the USA.

here's one I already pointed out earlier that will throw a wrench in your heartland:
VOYAGE PATH OF LEHI REVEALED
Recorded in March 1836
By the Prophet Joseph
(The Bernhisel JST Manuscript, Page 135)
At Kirtland, Ohio

1 The course that Lehi traveled from the city of Jerusalem to the place where he and his family took ship:
2 They traveled nearly a south-southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of North latitude.
3 Then nearly east to the Sea of Arabia;
4 Then sailed in a Southeast direction, and landed on the continent of South America in Chile-- thirty degrees South latitude.
But May and Anderson IGNORE Joseph Smith and say the first landing was in Florida. So who's really ignoring Joseph Smith?
That isn't the slam dunk you think it is. I wouldn't hang your hat on that one. By the way, I am cool with either theory.
https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/vie ... text=byusq
no, of course it isn't a slam dunk - I was simply providing quotes from JS on the location of the events in the BOM. The heartland folks provide many dubious "quotes from JS" to support their theories. Which JS quote do you want to believe?

I guess whatever tickles your fancy. ;)

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

Got plenty of books in today (2 mailboxes full). I just posted on the mirror thread, as I backed up to the Conversations listings in SEALED & pooled the ones involved. I took several pics of the one I could not load onto the Forum. It was only 1.09 MB worth. I pulled up on U-6 & took a couple of shots with the Sony Mavica.. Here it is, 2 variations.

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

OOPS! punched the wrong button. Got the refurbished Dell keyboards in for about $15 a pop from Ebay. Much better, as I don't get hung with "r"s like this rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

One of the books was a 1996 Revised & Enlarged copy of Verneil Simmon's HB by ZRF- 'Peoples, Places and Prophecies with a blue cover instead of red (HB). Not sure what was revised.

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

Hmm, they do not seem to load. Let's see if I can click-n-drag one in. If so, I might try the original.

Nope, it says HTTP error just like the other way. OK, I'll try again Saturday later.

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mudflap
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Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by mudflap »

you might try uploading them to postimage.org.

Then enclose them in tags [ i m g ] coolpicture.jpg [ / i m g ]

(I put spaces in the tags above to show how to do it, but you would take out the spaces to post)

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

Yay!!! Progress.

Same pic, different shot.

Randle took this one looking out thru a construction site in Jalapa de Diaz about 5 miles from Hill Rabon. You are seeing the cliff end of the is whale shaped mountain.

April 4th, 2008 Weird, as the copies I made give 2001 for some reason.
Attachments
TVRab005.JPG
TVRab005.JPG (24.61 KiB) Viewed 52 times
TVRab001.JPG
TVRab001.JPG (24.17 KiB) Viewed 52 times

Lynn
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Posts: 1073

Re: Correlated Map of sites & hills in the Book of Mormon in the setting of Central America

Post by Lynn »

I also have a PDF of a satellite view, but I will have to take it upstairs to U-4 (a 1999 e-machines tower & see if I can alter it to a jpg or gif or tif. I am able to retype (rename) the file type, as well as the normal file name too the name & it actually converts it. I have not put the new AC unit in upstairs yet. I hope to next weekend. Time will tell.

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