Time to flee?

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
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tribrac
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by tribrac »

I was not one into fleeing, but watching what is happening in Utah legislature....i am beginning to consider it.

The Utah Saintly Socialist Republicans.

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by mudflap »

FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 2:31 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:48 am
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am

I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
Do you at least have internet? I'm assuming you don't run into town every day to hop on someone's WiFi.
Sure! Starlink is super fast. Pricey, but very fast.
I'm curious - how many of the folks that live there are living there full time - and don't leave to go into town for jobs? As in, how many are able to fully support themselves financially within the community? I think you said a while back you're invested with a couple hundred thousand so far with the water well and the house, so I wonder how others did it. I don't personally know anyone right now that could A) invest $200k-$300k cash into something and then B) be able to continue to sustain themselves by growing their own food, repairing their own house, car, water well, and have internet access.

logonbump
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by logonbump »

Atrasado wrote: March 5th, 2024, 11:16 am
FrankOne wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 10:20 am
gkearney wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 9:59 amFlee where?
I believe that's where prayer comes into play.

Many have prayed and many have moved.
I can't tell you how many people have moved to Rexburg in the last eight years not knowing why, but just feeling compelled to and not because they got a job here. It seems like every month I hear of someone like that.
Are you in Rexburg? What does it have to offer, besides people who are subject to bizarre cult influencers like Chad and Lori Daybell and easy access to BYU and fly fishing?

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The Airbender
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by The Airbender »

So... I mean, it has been like 9 years for me, probably about 7 for those who took awhile to come around, but there was definitely a spirit of preparation which led a whole bunch of us to do a whole bunch of stuff to get ready for a whole bunch of stuff. I guess the question is.... are we now less likely to see all the things we thought would happen, happen?

My preparations have continued- mostly in ways I never would have imagined.

I gotta say, it seems like those things are still coming.

Maybe things have gotten so much better in society since 2017 that God has changed his mind and we are all just going to simply continue as we are...

I doubt it ;)

Edit because I'm still just here thinking about it:

No inhabitant will ever live in the Valley again? I mean, that is what Spencer saw, at least in Happy Valley.

Who's Jesse?

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by mudflap »

The Airbender wrote: March 5th, 2024, 5:58 pm So... I mean, it has been like 9 years for me, probably about 7 for those who took awhile to come around, but there was definitely a spirit of preparation which led a whole bunch of us to do a whole bunch of stuff to get ready for a whole bunch of stuff. I guess the question is.... are we now less likely to see all the things we thought would happen, happen?

My preparations have continued- mostly in ways I never would have imagined.

I gotta say, it seems like those things are still coming.

Maybe things have gotten so much better in society since 2017 that God has changed his mind and we are all just going to simply continue as we are...

I doubt it ;)

Edit because I'm still just here thinking about it:

No inhabitant will ever live in the Valley again? I mean, that is what Spencer saw, at least in Happy Valley.

Who's Jesse?
Some good thoughts, here, Airbender.

We began our flee in 2012. It took us 12 years to get a piece of land, get out of debt, build a house and move out of the city. Seems like it shouldn't take that long, but getting debt-free is hard work.

when we saw covid coming in January 2020, we felt like we should top off our supplies, so over the next few weeks, we bought extra of everything we normally bought. When the lockdowns happened in April, I remember grabbing a few things like canned goods and bread, but it was surreal walking past the toilet paper aisle and watching folks running down the nearly empty aisle grabbing whatever they could. We felt pretty good about our stock at the time, and did not panic like everyone else.

We still have a very healthy toilet paper supply. But have slacked off on huge amounts of food storage. Our peanut butter and other goods have expired without much use. I guess we bought a lot of stuff that we didn't actually rotate into daily use, but we figured at the time that we were heading into a long term shut down with supply chain disruptions. That hasn't panned out.

There's a sense of waiting right now - and we've noticed this feeling for over a year. It feels like a very quiet news cycle. Almost too quiet. But we've been wrong so many times before....

Should I buy a whole bunch of 2A supplies? meh. I'll just take them from folks after they die. Should I have 2 years of canned goods? maybe. Should I wisely "improve my talents" (biblical talents, not "skills") and make my land as productive as possible and keep improving my ability to grow my own food? yeah, I think so.

But the idea that the collapse is coming this year, or even in the next 5 -10 years or even that the 2nd Coming is within a decade or even 20 years doesn't seem likely at this point. I mean, look at Y2K - nothing. Then 9/11 - nothing. But folks thought that was it. Then the 2007 crash. Then 2012 when the Mayan calendar reset. Then 2020 with covid. We continue to limp along, and things continue to get worse, but it's not like in the BOM when things got really worse within 5-6 years and the government completely collapsed. And their final collapse took 200 years. The Romans, too. England's been in decline for at least 80 years but folks there are still marrying and giving in marriage. I don't know how long it'll last, but it's lasted a lot longer than I thought it would.

I think it will happen, just don't know what "the spark" will be - economic? viral? an earthquake? war? meteor strike? who knows. Still, our priorities are to become more self sufficient. I'm planning on buying a hand auger so I can drill a water well this summer.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by Original_Intent »

Watching social media, it is clear the average TBM feels that the purchase of the Kirtland temple is a sure sign of the coming Rapture (tm)

Of all the stupid things to take as a sign. The church buys an old temple that isn't even going to be used as a temple, more of a tourist attraction or scenic view area on the pilgrimage to Mecca, I mean SLC.

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Telavian
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by Telavian »

Original_Intent wrote: March 6th, 2024, 10:11 am Watching social media, it is clear the average TBM feels that the purchase of the Kirtland temple is a sure sign of the coming Rapture (tm)

Of all the stupid things to take as a sign. The church buys an old temple that isn't even going to be used as a temple, more of a tourist attraction or scenic view area on the pilgrimage to Mecca, I mean SLC.
I think they see it as a sign of dominance. Their team is now slightly better therefore they are one step closer to the second coming.
I think this also fits into the general LDS mindset of when the second coming is going to happen. In their minds the church is always going to be onwards and upwards. Christ will come when the church has dominated the world with missionary work and so on.

It is very hard for them to see the flaw in this approach. Everyone wants to be on the winning side of things.

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The Airbender
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by The Airbender »

mudflap wrote: March 6th, 2024, 9:32 am

I'm planning on buying a hand auger so I can drill a water well this summer.
How in the world? We hit water at 126 feet and people called us extremely blessed that it wasn't closer to 200 feet.

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by mudflap »

The Airbender wrote: March 6th, 2024, 1:03 pm
mudflap wrote: March 6th, 2024, 9:32 am

I'm planning on buying a hand auger so I can drill a water well this summer.
How in the world? We hit water at 126 feet and people called us extremely blessed that it wasn't closer to 200 feet.
we're in the south. I've heard 20'-40' is really common East of the Mississippi, as long as you're not in the Appalachians. plus we're already in a small valley. I guess I'll find out when I try.

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FreedomWorks
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by FreedomWorks »

mudflap wrote: March 5th, 2024, 11:50 am
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 2:31 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:48 am
Do you at least have internet? I'm assuming you don't run into town every day to hop on someone's WiFi.
Sure! Starlink is super fast. Pricey, but very fast.
I'm curious - how many of the folks that live there are living there full time - and don't leave to go into town for jobs? As in, how many are able to fully support themselves financially within the community? I think you said a while back you're invested with a couple hundred thousand so far with the water well and the house, so I wonder how others did it. I don't personally know anyone right now that could A) invest $200k-$300k cash into something and then B) be able to continue to sustain themselves by growing their own food, repairing their own house, car, water well, and have internet access.
There are over 140 full-time residents, half are kids. I only know of one who commutes for work (to Delta). Rest work in the community (mostly construction-related work), are retired, or, work online. Most of us sold our homes and are using the equity to build out our homesteads.

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by mudflap »

FreedomWorks wrote: April 16th, 2024, 10:18 am
mudflap wrote: March 5th, 2024, 11:50 am
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 2:31 pm

Sure! Starlink is super fast. Pricey, but very fast.
I'm curious - how many of the folks that live there are living there full time - and don't leave to go into town for jobs? As in, how many are able to fully support themselves financially within the community? I think you said a while back you're invested with a couple hundred thousand so far with the water well and the house, so I wonder how others did it. I don't personally know anyone right now that could A) invest $200k-$300k cash into something and then B) be able to continue to sustain themselves by growing their own food, repairing their own house, car, water well, and have internet access.
There are over 140 full-time residents, half are kids. I only know of one who commutes for work (to Delta). Rest work in the community (mostly construction-related work), are retired, or, work online. Most of us sold our homes and are using the equity to build out our homesteads.
wow. that's impressive. so it's not as hard as I thought? good to know.

JohnnyL
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by JohnnyL »

All I know, is that those who seem they might know (the rich), are making sure they get their passports quickly.

JohnnyL
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by JohnnyL »

FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 2:31 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:48 am
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am

I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
Do you at least have internet? I'm assuming you don't run into town every day to hop on someone's WiFi.
Sure! Starlink is super fast. Pricey, but very fast.
Glad it is, there.
My relative tried to use it for remote work, and it was very slow--that was if he could get a decent connection.
Last edited by JohnnyL on April 16th, 2024, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ILiveIDieILiveAgain
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by ILiveIDieILiveAgain »

FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am
4Joshua8 wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:08 am Flee? Flee to where?
I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
So I drive out there a lot. Within less than a mile of where Google maps shows. Exploring the abandoned mines around that whole area, from Dugway to Delta and out to Nevada border. Ummmm. There is nothing there. Like, legit nothing. :lol: Most certainly not the cute little sunshine picture with the girl on the website. And that field of lavender clovers Google maps shows - that's complete BS. There's no real trees anywhere. Even up in the "nearby" hills. And I don't care how good the wells are, I doubt that place is growable during the middle of Utah desert summers. There's a reason why its a desolate desert. The place doesn't get developed, because they realize the cost to sustain isn't worth it. Any vegetation that is green in early April/May, when I start wandering out there, is brown and dead by June. Going to say that the only real water comes from Spring rains. And is gone until sparse winter snows.
Also its ironically funny how the place exists only because of all the modern Matrix of Dependencies technologies of civilization that were trucked out there to build it.
In any case, that place isn't a hidden away place to flee. I'm not the only one that runs the trails out there. I see multiple people running the trails everytime I go. If society goes belly up, and people do the Lehi-into-the-wilderness thing, that place is an easy view from all sorts of vantage points. It will be overrun in short order. No matter how many guns and bullets the homesteaders have. As I said about the mines I explore, I often wonder what it was like for those miners to take their finds back into town. Maybe a handful of days hiking with their pack mules. This homestead out there will be overrun with the first swarms of 4x4's fleeing from the cities. Lots of people have 4-wheel drives and SUVs.

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FreedomWorks
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by FreedomWorks »

ILiveIDieILiveAgain wrote: April 16th, 2024, 1:04 pm
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am
4Joshua8 wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:08 am Flee? Flee to where?
I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
So I drive out there a lot. Within less than a mile of where Google maps shows. Exploring the abandoned mines around that whole area, from Dugway to Delta and out to Nevada border. Ummmm. There is nothing there. Like, legit nothing. :lol: Most certainly not the cute little sunshine picture with the girl on the website. And that field of lavender clovers Google maps shows - that's complete BS. There's no real trees anywhere. Even up in the "nearby" hills. And I don't care how good the wells are, I doubt that place is growable during the middle of Utah desert summers. There's a reason why its a desolate desert. The place doesn't get developed, because they realize the cost to sustain isn't worth it. Any vegetation that is green in early April/May, when I start wandering out there, is brown and dead by June. Going to say that the only real water comes from Spring rains. And is gone until sparse winter snows.
Also its ironically funny how the place exists only because of all the modern Matrix of Dependencies technologies of civilization that were trucked out there to build it.
In any case, that place isn't a hidden away place to flee. I'm not the only one that runs the trails out there. I see multiple people running the trails everytime I go. If society goes belly up, and people do the Lehi-into-the-wilderness thing, that place is an easy view from all sorts of vantage points. It will be overrun in short order. No matter how many guns and bullets the homesteaders have. As I said about the mines I explore, I often wonder what it was like for those miners to take their finds back into town. Maybe a handful of days hiking with their pack mules. This homestead out there will be overrun with the first swarms of 4x4's fleeing from the cities. Lots of people have 4-wheel drives and SUVs.
Sounds like you won't be doing the tour then?

ILiveIDieILiveAgain
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by ILiveIDieILiveAgain »

FreedomWorks wrote: April 16th, 2024, 4:28 pm
ILiveIDieILiveAgain wrote: April 16th, 2024, 1:04 pm
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am

I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
So I drive out there a lot. Within less than a mile of where Google maps shows. Exploring the abandoned mines around that whole area, from Dugway to Delta and out to Nevada border. Ummmm. There is nothing there. Like, legit nothing. :lol: Most certainly not the cute little sunshine picture with the girl on the website. And that field of lavender clovers Google maps shows - that's complete BS. There's no real trees anywhere. Even up in the "nearby" hills. And I don't care how good the wells are, I doubt that place is growable during the middle of Utah desert summers. There's a reason why its a desolate desert. The place doesn't get developed, because they realize the cost to sustain isn't worth it. Any vegetation that is green in early April/May, when I start wandering out there, is brown and dead by June. Going to say that the only real water comes from Spring rains. And is gone until sparse winter snows.
Also its ironically funny how the place exists only because of all the modern Matrix of Dependencies technologies of civilization that were trucked out there to build it.
In any case, that place isn't a hidden away place to flee. I'm not the only one that runs the trails out there. I see multiple people running the trails everytime I go. If society goes belly up, and people do the Lehi-into-the-wilderness thing, that place is an easy view from all sorts of vantage points. It will be overrun in short order. No matter how many guns and bullets the homesteaders have. As I said about the mines I explore, I often wonder what it was like for those miners to take their finds back into town. Maybe a handful of days hiking with their pack mules. This homestead out there will be overrun with the first swarms of 4x4's fleeing from the cities. Lots of people have 4-wheel drives and SUVs.
Sounds like you won't be doing the tour then?
Like I said, I drive out that way lots of times every summer. I've driven the road that skirts right around that place multiple times, including driving many of the roads in a 50 mile radius of that place. I've already done the tour. The weather's pretty decentish this weekend, and has me thinking about the mines in that area. I might be doing another tour this weekend. Along with all the rest that frequently "tour" that area.

OCDMOM
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by OCDMOM »

Weather is important if you move. Does it have a long growing season? Are the temperatures mild? Water? Low population?

A Disciple
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by A Disciple »

Missouri, except for the occasional weather extremes. How's the water table in Missouri?

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by mudflap »

ILiveIDieILiveAgain wrote: April 16th, 2024, 1:04 pm
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am
4Joshua8 wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:08 am Flee? Flee to where?
I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
So I drive out there a lot. Within less than a mile of where Google maps shows. Exploring the abandoned mines around that whole area, from Dugway to Delta and out to Nevada border. Ummmm. There is nothing there. Like, legit nothing. :lol: Most certainly not the cute little sunshine picture with the girl on the website. And that field of lavender clovers Google maps shows - that's complete BS. There's no real trees anywhere. Even up in the "nearby" hills. And I don't care how good the wells are, I doubt that place is growable during the middle of Utah desert summers. There's a reason why its a desolate desert. The place doesn't get developed, because they realize the cost to sustain isn't worth it. Any vegetation that is green in early April/May, when I start wandering out there, is brown and dead by June. Going to say that the only real water comes from Spring rains. And is gone until sparse winter snows.
Also its ironically funny how the place exists only because of all the modern Matrix of Dependencies technologies of civilization that were trucked out there to build it.
In any case, that place isn't a hidden away place to flee. I'm not the only one that runs the trails out there. I see multiple people running the trails everytime I go. If society goes belly up, and people do the Lehi-into-the-wilderness thing, that place is an easy view from all sorts of vantage points. It will be overrun in short order. No matter how many guns and bullets the homesteaders have. As I said about the mines I explore, I often wonder what it was like for those miners to take their finds back into town. Maybe a handful of days hiking with their pack mules. This homestead out there will be overrun with the first swarms of 4x4's fleeing from the cities. Lots of people have 4-wheel drives and SUVs.
there's not "nothing there" - this video (https://youtu.be/68jNS_pcLzY) shows at least 6 homes going in, as of November 2023. they have their own concrete company. stuff is going on.

It doesn't make much sense to me to say, on the one hand, "there's nothing there" and then on the other hand, to say that in a grid-down situation, it's going to be overrun. If there's nothing there, what's going to be overrun?

Also, pretty sure MOST of the Salt lake valley looked very similar to riverbed ranch before the pioneers showed up in 1847. I don't know about the lavender field, but I have no doubts that the same spirit that shaped the salt lake valley into what it is today can shape riverbed ranch into something similar in the near future. Sure, the pioneers had some larger creeks to their advantage, but riverbed ranch has plenty of wells - at least enough to support themselves.

I also doubt that, knowing a horde is coming, they'll just sit there and wait for the bullets to fly. Many of those roads would be pretty easy to make impassable in short order, even for the jeep folks. Being that far out from everywhere civilized, you have to live prepared, so I'm sure they would out-do the invaders in a pissing contest (we'll talk more about the invaders next). Plus, they'd have "home advantage", knowing all the side trails, overlooks, choke points, and ridges for easy pickings. "Living somewhere" always outdoes "tooling around there" on the weekends, IMO.

And I don't think the pink-handed city slicker "invaders" will fare that well out of their citified element, should they make the attempt. honestly. I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy in my ward who can pull an engine out of a truck and fix it, much less self-rescue when I get stuck.

The only one. I'm guessing "Wasatch front Utah" has even less "can-do dirt people" than they had when I lived there almost 20 years ago, simply because "can do" folks can't afford to live there anymore.

But this is where "following the prophet" has brought most members: everyone has "muh edu-cation", their 1/4 acre with a fenced in yard, a BBQ, a battery-powered lawnmower, and student loans, car loans, and basically a half-million $ in debt because that's what 50 North Temple told them to do. But they don't know how to "do anything"; they are just glorified drug pushers (aka "doctors"); suits (aka: "lawyers"); computer nerds (aka: "programmers"); sales people (aka "sales people"); engineers (guys who drive a mouse and don't actually "engineer" anything). Oh, and pink-haired rainbow people (aka "liberal arts professors"). There aren't many truck drivers, mechanics, farmers, ditch diggers, welders, carpenters, or heavy equipment operators - not in any amount that would make a difference. So all that other stuff is what'll ooze out of Provo.... I don't think that's much of a threat.

ILiveIDieILiveAgain
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by ILiveIDieILiveAgain »

mudflap wrote: April 16th, 2024, 8:56 pm
ILiveIDieILiveAgain wrote: April 16th, 2024, 1:04 pm
FreedomWorks wrote: November 24th, 2023, 10:19 am

I've "fled" to an off-grid community where everyone is working towards producing all their own life-sustaining food, water and power. Being dependent on cities for those is risky at best. Especially as they will be used more and more as leverage for compliance.

We have over 140 residents with room for another 800 or so.
It's awesome how they are helping each other build out their homesteads.
If you prefer, we're starting a second off-grid community in Arizona, east of Snowflake.

Are these towns perfect? No. But they're a heck of a lot better than living in the Matrix of Dependencies.
So I drive out there a lot. Within less than a mile of where Google maps shows. Exploring the abandoned mines around that whole area, from Dugway to Delta and out to Nevada border. Ummmm. There is nothing there. Like, legit nothing. :lol: Most certainly not the cute little sunshine picture with the girl on the website. And that field of lavender clovers Google maps shows - that's complete BS. There's no real trees anywhere. Even up in the "nearby" hills. And I don't care how good the wells are, I doubt that place is growable during the middle of Utah desert summers. There's a reason why its a desolate desert. The place doesn't get developed, because they realize the cost to sustain isn't worth it. Any vegetation that is green in early April/May, when I start wandering out there, is brown and dead by June. Going to say that the only real water comes from Spring rains. And is gone until sparse winter snows.
Also its ironically funny how the place exists only because of all the modern Matrix of Dependencies technologies of civilization that were trucked out there to build it.
In any case, that place isn't a hidden away place to flee. I'm not the only one that runs the trails out there. I see multiple people running the trails everytime I go. If society goes belly up, and people do the Lehi-into-the-wilderness thing, that place is an easy view from all sorts of vantage points. It will be overrun in short order. No matter how many guns and bullets the homesteaders have. As I said about the mines I explore, I often wonder what it was like for those miners to take their finds back into town. Maybe a handful of days hiking with their pack mules. This homestead out there will be overrun with the first swarms of 4x4's fleeing from the cities. Lots of people have 4-wheel drives and SUVs.
there's not "nothing there" - this video (https://youtu.be/68jNS_pcLzY) shows at least 6 homes going in, as of November 2023. they have their own concrete company. stuff is going on.

It doesn't make much sense to me to say, on the one hand, "there's nothing there" and then on the other hand, to say that in a grid-down situation, it's going to be overrun. If there's nothing there, what's going to be overrun?

Also, pretty sure MOST of the Salt lake valley looked very similar to riverbed ranch before the pioneers showed up in 1847. I don't know about the lavender field, but I have no doubts that the same spirit that shaped the salt lake valley into what it is today can shape riverbed ranch into something similar in the near future. Sure, the pioneers had some larger creeks to their advantage, but riverbed ranch has plenty of wells - at least enough to support themselves.

I also doubt that, knowing a horde is coming, they'll just sit there and wait for the bullets to fly. Many of those roads would be pretty easy to make impassable in short order, even for the jeep folks. Being that far out from everywhere civilized, you have to live prepared, so I'm sure they would out-do the invaders in a pissing contest (we'll talk more about the invaders next). Plus, they'd have "home advantage", knowing all the side trails, overlooks, choke points, and ridges for easy pickings. "Living somewhere" always outdoes "tooling around there" on the weekends, IMO.

And I don't think the pink-handed city slicker "invaders" will fare that well out of their citified element, should they make the attempt. honestly. I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy in my ward who can pull an engine out of a truck and fix it, much less self-rescue when I get stuck.

The only one. I'm guessing "Wasatch front Utah" has even less "can-do dirt people" than they had when I lived there almost 20 years ago, simply because "can do" folks can't afford to live there anymore.

But this is where "following the prophet" has brought most members: everyone has "muh edu-cation", their 1/4 acre with a fenced in yard, a BBQ, a battery-powered lawnmower, and student loans, car loans, and basically a half-million $ in debt because that's what 50 North Temple told them to do. But they don't know how to "do anything"; they are just glorified drug pushers (aka "doctors"); suits (aka: "lawyers"); computer nerds (aka: "programmers"); sales people (aka "sales people"); engineers (guys who drive a mouse and don't actually "engineer" anything). Oh, and pink-haired rainbow people (aka "liberal arts professors"). There aren't many truck drivers, mechanics, farmers, ditch diggers, welders, carpenters, or heavy equipment operators - not in any amount that would make a difference. So all that other stuff is what'll ooze out of Provo.... I don't think that's much of a threat.
The video. It shows some people building some houses out in the middle of nothing. :lol: They should be truly grateful that modern technologies of that civilization they shun so much makes it possible to play house out in the middle of nothing. Those houses are made because of sooooooooo many of society's dependencies. Out in that big nothing, they would never be able to make it happen, from a real scratch starting point, without those essential modern technologies that they are giving the finger to. The ironies.
There's a reason why that whole place was nothing when they got there - because everyone else knew it was folly to try and make a city there. None of the miners from hundred plus years ago left behind homestead attempts. Even they knew that it was a waste to try that; they went back into society to do real business. Ranchers don't exist out there, because they know they can't keep livestock maintained. How the wild horse herds make it out there is truly baffling. Then again, they self-regulate and don't consume, like humans do. Speaking of wildlife, google maps shows that there is still the red fire ant problems, right in the backyards. :lol:
Now that some are putting stuff there, and saying there are going to gather up enough to make it from season to season, if things get really as bad as they are fearmongering it will, people fleeing from cities won't be coming to settle - they will be coming to loot and pillage, then move onto the next easy target homestead. Making roads deliberately impassible would make for a blatant signal that "Those homesteaders out there must have lots of goodies, because they're trying to stop us from getting to their stuff. Let's go get more people and show them good they can't stop us!!!!!" :twisted:
That place isn't defendable. It is out in the flat. It is at the lowest place in the flat. It is easily seen from any direction; there's nothing secluding it. There's no choke points to get out there. There's no side trails. And there's no overlooks that are close enough to that place to get from the overlooks back to the buildings in time to head off invaders they spot. Nearly everything out there is flat. You can drive on both the roads and the open land - I've done it. Did you forget motorcycles? And side-by-side? No roads needed. There's no stone, there's no blocks, there's nothing to build a solid defense against invaders. Especially if things have gotten so bad that their backhoes and dumptrucks have run out of fuel trying to drag sparsely scattered boulders from all over the desert. :lol: As I transverse that place for hours - because that's how wide open it is - my thoughts "ponderize" about if it would be a place to flee to. No. No, it would be a terrible "wilderness" place to flee to.
Salt Lake and Wasatch front became a thing because they were able to make reservoirs nearby that feed the valleys. There are no reservoir places out there in the nothing (at least the Arizona place has a small pond). That place won't make it like the Wasatch front, because there isn't enough out there to store up in order to keep a population supplied. That is, without all sorts of modern technological dependencies of society, which those out there pretend they are escaping from. :lol:

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

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Sorry, but it looks like you're rehashing your entire previous comment. I think we get your point: they are going to fail. But are the city folk going to survive? that's my question.

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Fred
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Re: Time to flee?

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OCDMOM wrote: April 16th, 2024, 7:48 pm Weather is important if you move. Does it have a long growing season? Are the temperatures mild? Water? Low population?
Of course, weather can attract scum. For instance, I lived off-grid in Arizona for 10 years and finally decided to get the heck out.

So I picked a place with 4 distinct seasons, no public transportation, just enough fowl weather to keep the weenies out, and a sheriffs office that promises to uphold the constitution.

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FrankOne
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Re: Time to flee?

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JohnnyL wrote: April 16th, 2024, 12:09 pm All I know, is that those who seem they might know (the rich), are making sure they get their passports quickly.
Ok, I have a bit of perhaps..."intel"on this that I got yesterday.

My friend was just hired by his "god family" where he spent most of his childhood to help them build a home in a rural area which will basically be a fortified bunker. The family has a net worth just shy of a billion dollars. Old family, old money. They are now on the west coast and moving rural inland. They specifically requested he help them with EMP fortification on their vehicles now, while building their bunker house.

I can't give any more details due to the nature of the situation. If they did get "notified" , then I would say they got it from someone at an outside layer of the onion rather than the center. In other words, I would guess that the super elite got notified years ago and now, the next level down is getting the info. It's interesting anyway.

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mudflap
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Re: Time to flee?

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Fred wrote: April 17th, 2024, 12:56 pm
OCDMOM wrote: April 16th, 2024, 7:48 pm Weather is important if you move. Does it have a long growing season? Are the temperatures mild? Water? Low population?
Of course, weather can attract scum. For instance, I lived off-grid in Arizona for 10 years and finally decided to get the heck out.

So I picked a place with 4 distinct seasons, no public transportation, just enough fowl weather to keep the weenies out, and a sheriffs office that promises to uphold the constitution.
yup. The more perks (perceived or real) a place has, the more scum it'll attract. a cost / benefit analysis can help you decide. Take water for example:
- lots of it: more idiots walking around. Also the ability to grow more stuff.
- hardly any of it: less idiots walking around. Not as much ability to grow stuff.

you have to decide what benefit you like the most, and what the cost of that benefit is.

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Fred
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Re: Time to flee?

Post by Fred »

mudflap wrote: April 17th, 2024, 8:29 pm
Fred wrote: April 17th, 2024, 12:56 pm
OCDMOM wrote: April 16th, 2024, 7:48 pm Weather is important if you move. Does it have a long growing season? Are the temperatures mild? Water? Low population?
Of course, weather can attract scum. For instance, I lived off-grid in Arizona for 10 years and finally decided to get the heck out.

So I picked a place with 4 distinct seasons, no public transportation, just enough fowl weather to keep the weenies out, and a sheriffs office that promises to uphold the constitution.
yup. The more perks (perceived or real) a place has, the more scum it'll attract. a cost / benefit analysis can help you decide. Take water for example:
- lots of it: more idiots walking around. Also the ability to grow more stuff.
- hardly any of it: less idiots walking around. Not as much ability to grow stuff.

you have to decide what benefit you like the most, and what the cost of that benefit is.
Absolutely!
Pick a high desert and it will be too cold for most, too dry for most, and a democrat wouldn't be caught dead there. Too much freedom for a democrat. A greenhouse solves any climate issues. I live on a mountain so I can see for miles. When the non-prepared finally leave the city out of desperation, they can't take everything with them. They will need to kill and steal to stay alive. They will stay on the main roads as that is where their prey will be. They will not venture into the mountains as they can see no homes and the reward is not worth the effort. Besides, we can see them a long way off.

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