What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

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Atrasado
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Atrasado »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:05 pm
Atrasado wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:50 pm It's weird to see Brigham teaching truth, considering some of the awful things that happened under him, some of which he was certainly involved with. Still, I don't know that he wasn't a prophet of God, and I don't know that he was. God still hasn't told me. I'm withholding judgment until God tells me what the truth is.
I'm not sure how prophetic this statement really is. He admittedly was a "Yankee guesser." I see it similar to the LDS org today. They can quote (and misquote) scripture like the rest of us. I think they often do a poor job of it because they exempt themselves from much of the condemnation. Kind of like Brigham did in this very quote.

What I can do with BY is evaluate his fruits. I can judge those fruits and choose not to partake. IMO that is righteous judgment.
I can't argue with that. There are things that trouble me about Brigham Young, but there are a few things that trouble me about Moses, and I believe he was a prophet. Since I'm not living in Brigham's time and time blurs things and the historical records are probably incomplete and inaccurate, I'm withholding final judgment.

However, I have no problem judging the current President of the Church. Rusty didn't have to donate all that money to UNICEF or the NAACP. Rusty didn't have to support the vaccine and masks. Rusty doesn't have to allow Gordon Bowen to have influence in the Church and he doesn't have to have his henchmen burying the victims of abuse. But he does all of those things.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Here's one way Babylon creeps in. God gives us the BoM which teaches us that his name is Jesus Christ and that there is no other name by which we call him and thereby there would also be no other name by which he calls himself and then Satan sneaks in and starts to rename him as the "Peacemaker", the Peacemaker this and the Peacemaker that.

Here is what Jesus said when asked about peace: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." So, if Jesus didn't come to bring peace, who is this Peacemaker? Cue the Jeopardy theme song.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Atrasado wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:36 pm I can't argue with that. There are things that trouble me about Brigham Young, but there are a few things that trouble me about Moses, and I believe he was a prophet. Since I'm not living in Brigham's time and time blurs things and the historical records are probably incomplete and inaccurate, I'm withholding final judgment.

However, I have no problem judging the current President of the Church. Rusty didn't have to donate all that money to UNICEF or the NAACP. Rusty didn't have to support the vaccine and masks. Rusty doesn't have to allow Gordon Bowen to have influence in the Church and he doesn't have to have his henchmen burying the victims of abuse. But he does all of those things.
If you dig into the history books, there's plenty to absorb about Brigham, IMO. Far more than Moses.

In fact, for both Brigham and Nelson, I feel things are far more sinister than any of the members have even fathomed.

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SJR3t2
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by SJR3t2 »

This is one.

Part of not learning the ways of the nations is to not do them, not to teach them, and not to promote them.
Jeremiah 10:2 This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by the signs in the heavens, though the nations themselves are terrified by them.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/pagan-holidays/

Atrasado
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Atrasado »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:49 pm
Atrasado wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:36 pm I can't argue with that. There are things that trouble me about Brigham Young, but there are a few things that trouble me about Moses, and I believe he was a prophet. Since I'm not living in Brigham's time and time blurs things and the historical records are probably incomplete and inaccurate, I'm withholding final judgment.

However, I have no problem judging the current President of the Church. Rusty didn't have to donate all that money to UNICEF or the NAACP. Rusty didn't have to support the vaccine and masks. Rusty doesn't have to allow Gordon Bowen to have influence in the Church and he doesn't have to have his henchmen burying the victims of abuse. But he does all of those things.
If you dig into the history books, there's plenty to absorb about Brigham, IMO. Far more than Moses.

In fact, for both Brigham and Nelson, I feel things are far more sinister than any of the members have even fathomed.
I would agree about Rusty. The general membership of the Church will be devastated when they learn who he really is. I can see signs of that with Brigham, but I am still not 100 percent sure. The more I learn about him, the more I wonder.

I have read Church history a fair amount, however, there are a lot of primary source documents that have come out recently I haven't taken the time to read, yet. I have my hands full just studying the scriptures, lately. I guess I rationalize this by saying that I know the Church is currently off track so I'll worry about that right now. However, if we don't know our history, we are doomed to repeat it. Hiding much of our history is probably where the problems started.
Last edited by Atrasado on April 2nd, 2024, 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Niemand »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:38 pm Here's one way Babylon creeps in. God gives us the BoM which teaches us that his name is Jesus Christ and that there is no other name by which we call him and thereby there would also be no other name by which he calls himself and then Satan sneaks in and starts to rename him as the "Peacemaker", the Peacemaker this and the Peacemaker that.

Here is what Jesus said when asked about peace: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." So, if Jesus didn't come to bring peace, who is this Peacemaker? Cue the Jeopardy theme song.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:38 pm Here's one way Babylon creeps in. God gives us the BoM which teaches us that his name is Jesus Christ and that there is no other name by which we call him and thereby there would also be no other name by which he calls himself and then Satan sneaks in and starts to rename him as the "Peacemaker", the Peacemaker this and the Peacemaker that.

Here is what Jesus said when asked about peace: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." So, if Jesus didn't come to bring peace, who is this Peacemaker? Cue the Jeopardy theme song.
Lol... good to see you around SH.

Maybe we can add calling his prophet of the Restoration a polygamist...

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Shawn Henry
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Niemand wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:11 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 2:38 pm Here's one way Babylon creeps in. God gives us the BoM which teaches us that his name is Jesus Christ and that there is no other name by which we call him and thereby there would also be no other name by which he calls himself and then Satan sneaks in and starts to rename him as the "Peacemaker", the Peacemaker this and the Peacemaker that.

Here is what Jesus said when asked about peace: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." So, if Jesus didn't come to bring peace, who is this Peacemaker? Cue the Jeopardy theme song.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
Everybody knows those verses, but surely you are not implying that those change what he himself said.

What he chose to emphasize is the sword. Why? My conclusion is that there is no peace until the wheat and tares are separated. Peace will be established then and only then and now is the time to fight for righteousness.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:19 pm Lol... good to see you around SH.
Good to see you back, Doug. Love you!

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Seed Starter
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:29 am
JuneBug12000 wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 10:57 am How can mother nurture a child she only sees long enough to put to bed each night?
I know a woman who chooses to work because she doesn't like being home with her children. Ironically, her job is working at a school in an administrative position.
Small world, I know the same woman... Come to think of it, I know a few ;) They can be found on any community Facebook page counting the days until the end of summer when a stranger can once again take over for her or if she's out of the home anyway, cut her daycare costs. Once the kiddos are locked up again this woman will be basking in the glow of her normal. When I hear people start talking like this in person at the store or whatever I can't stick around. Everyone has their agency but man it makes me sad and a little mad. On the first day of school, my wife likes to celebrate our first day of school by taking the kids hiking. One time she passed by a local school and witnessed a woman dropping her child off and sobbing in her car. She wanted to pull into the parking lot and invite that woman on their hike and tell her she didn't have to do this. It made my wife cry re-telling the story.

I know there are women who want to stay home but feel they can't or they really can't. Those are not the women celebrating freeing themselves from their children. IMO - If women have kids driving them crazy something else needs to change besides sending them to an institution. Parents don't need to be in the entertainment business 24/7. I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.

4Joshua8
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by 4Joshua8 »

We're guilty of idolatry, in the church as much as outside of it.
I second Marc's suggestion of reading the 12 Diatribes of Modern Israel by Avraham Gileadi. It covers our idolatry in the following areas:
Images
Violence and Sex
Music
Organized Sports
Human Idols
Imaginations of the Heart
Nature Cults
Mammon
Babylon
The Arm of Flesh
Elitism-Pharisaism
Pollution of the Temple

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Seed Starter
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Seed Starter »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:27 am
Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 10:51 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 8:01 am We are invited often to separate ourselves from Babylon. What does that mean to you? How is the church doing in their efforts to cast off Babylon?

Was this written last week?

"And his wife shall be forced to labor as well" Wow! And, "They shall labor away from the family and the rulers of the lad shall take the children and they shall raise them up into bondage." My wife and I are always talking about how unnatural it is for families to get up first thing and separate until late in the day. People bucking that system get looked at sideways. Ask me how I know.

Separating ourselves from Babylon means opting out of a lot and when you can't, setting yourself apart as a follower of Christ to the extent you can. We can separate while being in the city. The church isn't doing enough and in some cases looks to be joining with Babylon. Ezra Taft Benson is what I would expect to hear if the church was serious about separating. I decided to worry more about how I'm separating than how they're separating. I no longer have any expectations of them but I can see how it's an important topic since so many are inside the LDS church. To put it simply I'm trying to awake and they're trying to be woke :lol:
I used to think that some of these people who homeschooled or lived off the land were quacks. Now I see how enlightened some of them were/are.

I find it interesting that LDS church meetings are also separated; men from women, and children from parents. (The NR actually talks about this aspect of gentile culture as well.)

Benson is an interesting fella. He espoused many constitutional rights, yet also gave talks like "14 fundamentals in following the prophet."
Agreed. Take the good and leave the rest. My wife uses part of a curriculum called the Well-Educated Heart. It focuses on beautiful literature, music, history, and art. The woman who creates the curriculum is LDS. She sells reprints of classics that no longer have a copyright claim. I just mention it here because knowing what true beauty is will help the next generation gain some awareness of objective beauty and will help them discern what fake Babylon has created. There are many moderns creating beauty still but we seem to be trending negative in the arts as well. As homeschoolers, we try to move out into the world. Almost every day can be a field trip with HS. When school starts we're still out in the world which is a lot less crowded in September. The parents with kids sitting at desks are usually the ones calling us out for avoiding the world. It's very strange LOL I have fond memories of summer but this several-month free-for-all where nobody cares about education isn't good. Learning should never stop and kids should always have a high degree of autonomy. Swinging from extremes is probably not the best idea is all I'm saying.

JuneBug12000
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by JuneBug12000 »

Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:56 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:29 am
JuneBug12000 wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 10:57 am How can mother nurture a child she only sees long enough to put to bed each night?
I know a woman who chooses to work because she doesn't like being home with her children. Ironically, her job is working at a school in an administrative position.
Small world, I know the same woman... Come to think of it, I know a few ;) They can be found on any community Facebook page counting the days until the end of summer when a stranger can once again take over for her or if she's out of the home anyway, cut her daycare costs. Once the kiddos are locked up again this woman will be basking in the glow of her normal. When I hear people start talking like this in person at the store or whatever I can't stick around. Everyone has their agency but man it makes me sad and a little mad. On the first day of school, my wife likes to celebrate our first day of school by taking the kids hiking. One time she passed by a local school and witnessed a woman dropping her child off and sobbing in her car. She wanted to pull into the parking lot and invite that woman on their hike and tell her she didn't have to do this. It made my wife cry re-telling the story.

I know there are women who want to stay home but feel they can't or they really can't. Those are not the women celebrating freeing themselves from their children. IMO - If women have kids driving them crazy something else needs to change besides sending them to an institution. Parents don't need to be in the entertainment business 24/7. I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.
I remember as a young mom seeing both kinds of mom's on my Facebook feed. All the mom's who celebrated would reassure the mom's who cried. I remember doing as your wife and saying, "You don't have to do this. Listen to your instincts. Teach your children at home. At least don't send them so young and defenseless for goodness sakes!"

I remember one year watching my kids play in the knee high pool in the backyard during Indian summer. I thought of all the poor kids in school missing the last warm day of the year in October, never dreaming of the freedom my kids had. We did learn from books, but we also hiked a lot, visited with friends, traveled, read aloud together, discussed deep topics doctrinal and otherwise with other kids and their moms, toured places closed to the public like a behind the scenes tour of a local university. So cool to take the kids through the different labs and resources only the teachers and their research students for to see.

One funny story. We had a repairman come to my house when my oldest two boys were like 8 and 10. Since it was a rental, the property management always sent the same guy. He was friendly and would let the kids watch him work. One time he started to tell them about a book he was reading. I can't remember the name now, but about a ship that sailed to the southern pole and crashed. My boys excitedly told him they were reading the same book. He was surprised and they spent an hour discussing it together. Impromptu book club with 40 year old the handyman. 😂

We're still going strong. We just got some new sports equipment for the family to learn a new sport together. We're planning our trips to explore new hikes and camping spots now that the youngest is 3 and we are in a new state. Tetons, Lava Hot springs, Yellowstone and maybe a trip down to Goblin Valley for the little kids who don't remember it.

My oldest is starting a roofing business this year. He's worked with a guy from our old ward from the time he was 15 so he's got the skills. He'll have his best friends work with him as they get old enough, his brothers.

Homeschooling has made my kids best friends and I love it.

CuriousThinker
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by CuriousThinker »

Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 6:22 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:27 am
Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 10:51 am

Was this written last week?

"And his wife shall be forced to labor as well" Wow! And, "They shall labor away from the family and the rulers of the lad shall take the children and they shall raise them up into bondage." My wife and I are always talking about how unnatural it is for families to get up first thing and separate until late in the day. People bucking that system get looked at sideways. Ask me how I know.

Separating ourselves from Babylon means opting out of a lot and when you can't, setting yourself apart as a follower of Christ to the extent you can. We can separate while being in the city. The church isn't doing enough and in some cases looks to be joining with Babylon. Ezra Taft Benson is what I would expect to hear if the church was serious about separating. I decided to worry more about how I'm separating than how they're separating. I no longer have any expectations of them but I can see how it's an important topic since so many are inside the LDS church. To put it simply I'm trying to awake and they're trying to be woke :lol:
I used to think that some of these people who homeschooled or lived off the land were quacks. Now I see how enlightened some of them were/are.

I find it interesting that LDS church meetings are also separated; men from women, and children from parents. (The NR actually talks about this aspect of gentile culture as well.)

Benson is an interesting fella. He espoused many constitutional rights, yet also gave talks like "14 fundamentals in following the prophet."
Agreed. Take the good and leave the rest. My wife uses part of a curriculum called the Well-Educated Heart. It focuses on beautiful literature, music, history, and art. The woman who creates the curriculum is LDS. She sells reprints of classics that no longer have a copyright claim. I just mention it here because knowing what true beauty is will help the next generation gain some awareness of objective beauty and will help them discern what fake Babylon has created. There are many moderns creating beauty still but we seem to be trending negative in the arts as well. As homeschoolers, we try to move out into the world. Almost every day can be a field trip with HS. When school starts we're still out in the world which is a lot less crowded in September. The parents with kids sitting at desks are usually the ones calling us out for avoiding the world. It's very strange LOL I have fond memories of summer but this several-month free-for-all where nobody cares about education isn't good. Learning should never stop and kids should always have a high degree of autonomy. Swinging from extremes is probably not the best idea is all I'm saying.
We use Well-Educated Heart too in our homeschool. Marlene was so inspired to do it all.

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LateOutOfBed
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by LateOutOfBed »

marc wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 8:12 am I really like Gileadi's 12 Diatribes of Modern Israel. In this essay, he outlines the many forms of idolatry of today's gentiles, particularly members of the church. I was so impacted by it that I shared it some five years ago. Mainstream members of the church tend to bristle at the notion that they are idolatrous, but if the shoe fits:

Twelve Diatribes of Modern Israel
Thanks for that write-up! I've read a lot of it now, and I would have been mad at you many years ago (I was pretty prideful-likely still am), but now I think you're spot on with this analysis! :D

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marc
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by marc »

LateOutOfBed wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 11:03 am
marc wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 8:12 am I really like Gileadi's 12 Diatribes of Modern Israel. In this essay, he outlines the many forms of idolatry of today's gentiles, particularly members of the church. I was so impacted by it that I shared it some five years ago. Mainstream members of the church tend to bristle at the notion that they are idolatrous, but if the shoe fits:

Twelve Diatribes of Modern Israel
Thanks for that write-up! I've read a lot of it now, and I would have been mad at you many years ago (I was pretty prideful-likely still am), but now I think you're spot on with this analysis! :D
You're welcome and no worries. I am not at all the same person who joined this forum back around 2011 either.

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EndTimesBeliever
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by EndTimesBeliever »

Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:56 pm
I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.
That is me. I home-schooled my three children all the way through high school. I was pretty much an "unschooler" for many years (in the beginning - love of learning and all of that) and I thought it was funny when I would talk to people that were against homeschooling. They would start off with their list of negatives. I would say, "Well, I am a certified school teacher." and they would reply, "Well, then it is ok for you, but those other people..." Usually the conversation ended there but I would think, "If you only knew my homeschool looks absolutely nothing like public school..." and would have a good private chuckle.

I kept my teaching certificate current and went back to teaching last year. I teach High School Physics online. More than half of my students sit around and do nothing what-so-ever all period long (look at their phones, talk, or sleep). So, maybe my homeschool looked a lot like public school after all. :? (Except we did various activities and often enjoyed nature while we did our nothing.)

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

JuneBug12000 wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 9:23 am
Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:56 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:29 am
I know a woman who chooses to work because she doesn't like being home with her children. Ironically, her job is working at a school in an administrative position.
Small world, I know the same woman... Come to think of it, I know a few ;) They can be found on any community Facebook page counting the days until the end of summer when a stranger can once again take over for her or if she's out of the home anyway, cut her daycare costs. Once the kiddos are locked up again this woman will be basking in the glow of her normal. When I hear people start talking like this in person at the store or whatever I can't stick around. Everyone has their agency but man it makes me sad and a little mad. On the first day of school, my wife likes to celebrate our first day of school by taking the kids hiking. One time she passed by a local school and witnessed a woman dropping her child off and sobbing in her car. She wanted to pull into the parking lot and invite that woman on their hike and tell her she didn't have to do this. It made my wife cry re-telling the story.

I know there are women who want to stay home but feel they can't or they really can't. Those are not the women celebrating freeing themselves from their children. IMO - If women have kids driving them crazy something else needs to change besides sending them to an institution. Parents don't need to be in the entertainment business 24/7. I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.
I remember as a young mom seeing both kinds of mom's on my Facebook feed. All the mom's who celebrated would reassure the mom's who cried. I remember doing as your wife and saying, "You don't have to do this. Listen to your instincts. Teach your children at home. At least don't send them so young and defenseless for goodness sakes!"

I remember one year watching my kids play in the knee high pool in the backyard during Indian summer. I thought of all the poor kids in school missing the last warm day of the year in October, never dreaming of the freedom my kids had. We did learn from books, but we also hiked a lot, visited with friends, traveled, read aloud together, discussed deep topics doctrinal and otherwise with other kids and their moms, toured places closed to the public like a behind the scenes tour of a local university. So cool to take the kids through the different labs and resources only the teachers and their research students for to see.

One funny story. We had a repairman come to my house when my oldest two boys were like 8 and 10. Since it was a rental, the property management always sent the same guy. He was friendly and would let the kids watch him work. One time he started to tell them about a book he was reading. I can't remember the name now, but about a ship that sailed to the southern pole and crashed. My boys excitedly told him they were reading the same book. He was surprised and they spent an hour discussing it together. Impromptu book club with 40 year old the handyman. 😂

We're still going strong. We just got some new sports equipment for the family to learn a new sport together. We're planning our trips to explore new hikes and camping spots now that the youngest is 3 and we are in a new state. Tetons, Lava Hot springs, Yellowstone and maybe a trip down to Goblin Valley for the little kids who don't remember it.

My oldest is starting a roofing business this year. He's worked with a guy from our old ward from the time he was 15 so he's got the skills. He'll have his best friends work with him as they get old enough, his brothers.

Homeschooling has made my kids best friends and I love it.

Such a wonderful life you are giving to your children !
I'm immensely grateful to have most of my grandchildren experiencing the same sort of blessings in their home learning families.
I want the same for all children
How I wish to go back and give the same gift to my children

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I think this topic of education is very important. In many regards, Babylon is teaching children in schools. In think the remote/rural areas may be a few years behind the larger cities, but not by much.

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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

Post by Seed Starter »

JuneBug12000 wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 9:23 am
Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:56 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:29 am
I know a woman who chooses to work because she doesn't like being home with her children. Ironically, her job is working at a school in an administrative position.
Small world, I know the same woman... Come to think of it, I know a few ;) They can be found on any community Facebook page counting the days until the end of summer when a stranger can once again take over for her or if she's out of the home anyway, cut her daycare costs. Once the kiddos are locked up again this woman will be basking in the glow of her normal. When I hear people start talking like this in person at the store or whatever I can't stick around. Everyone has their agency but man it makes me sad and a little mad. On the first day of school, my wife likes to celebrate our first day of school by taking the kids hiking. One time she passed by a local school and witnessed a woman dropping her child off and sobbing in her car. She wanted to pull into the parking lot and invite that woman on their hike and tell her she didn't have to do this. It made my wife cry re-telling the story.

I know there are women who want to stay home but feel they can't or they really can't. Those are not the women celebrating freeing themselves from their children. IMO - If women have kids driving them crazy something else needs to change besides sending them to an institution. Parents don't need to be in the entertainment business 24/7. I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.
I remember as a young mom seeing both kinds of mom's on my Facebook feed. All the mom's who celebrated would reassure the mom's who cried. I remember doing as your wife and saying, "You don't have to do this. Listen to your instincts. Teach your children at home. At least don't send them so young and defenseless for goodness sakes!"

I remember one year watching my kids play in the knee high pool in the backyard during Indian summer. I thought of all the poor kids in school missing the last warm day of the year in October, never dreaming of the freedom my kids had. We did learn from books, but we also hiked a lot, visited with friends, traveled, read aloud together, discussed deep topics doctrinal and otherwise with other kids and their moms, toured places closed to the public like a behind the scenes tour of a local university. So cool to take the kids through the different labs and resources only the teachers and their research students for to see.

One funny story. We had a repairman come to my house when my oldest two boys were like 8 and 10. Since it was a rental, the property management always sent the same guy. He was friendly and would let the kids watch him work. One time he started to tell them about a book he was reading. I can't remember the name now, but about a ship that sailed to the southern pole and crashed. My boys excitedly told him they were reading the same book. He was surprised and they spent an hour discussing it together. Impromptu book club with 40 year old the handyman. 😂

We're still going strong. We just got some new sports equipment for the family to learn a new sport together. We're planning our trips to explore new hikes and camping spots now that the youngest is 3 and we are in a new state. Tetons, Lava Hot springs, Yellowstone and maybe a trip down to Goblin Valley for the little kids who don't remember it.

My oldest is starting a roofing business this year. He's worked with a guy from our old ward from the time he was 15 so he's got the skills. He'll have his best friends work with him as they get old enough, his brothers.

Homeschooling has made my kids best friends and I love it.
That's beautiful! I love the story about the repairman. Age segregation can be good in some ways but being able to mix it up with all ages allows such a great (and necessary) exchange between young and old. It's nice to hear more people choosing this. I wish you all the best.

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Seed Starter
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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

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EndTimesBeliever wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 12:10 pm
Seed Starter wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:56 pm
I know several teachers who decided to homeschool when they had kids. That says a lot.
That is me. I home-schooled my three children all the way through high school. I was pretty much an "unschooler" for many years (in the beginning - love of learning and all of that) and I thought it was funny when I would talk to people that were against homeschooling. They would start off with their list of negatives. I would say, "Well, I am a certified school teacher." and they would reply, "Well, then it is ok for you, but those other people..." Usually the conversation ended there but I would think, "If you only knew my homeschool looks absolutely nothing like public school..." and would have a good private chuckle.

I kept my teaching certificate current and went back to teaching last year. I teach High School Physics online. More than half of my students sit around and do nothing what-so-ever all period long (look at their phones, talk, or sleep). So, maybe my homeschool looked a lot like public school after all. :? (Except we did various activities and often enjoyed nature while we did our nothing.)
Great story! Ya the certified thing comes up a lot. When I see people who are worried they can't teach kindergarten or first grade for fear of messing their children up I wonder why they doubt themselves so much after making it through high school and even college. I tell them, "You can do it!" Managing and teaching one child is much different from teaching 35 kids at varying levels of education. Not to mention dealing with all the children's parents and admin directives. One Mother teaching one or two small children is optimal.

I'm hearing similar stories of sitting around all period from high school students attending in-person classes now. One young man I know is just doing packets so he doesn't have to waste his time. He is an amazing student and athlete but found a way around the BS. He values his time LOL His parents are very supportive. Unschooling really throws some people for a loop :lol:

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Re: What are the attributes of Babylon and how do we cast her off?

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Atrasado wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:50 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:10 pm
Luke wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:45 am

“But as to trials, why bless your hearts, the man or woman who enjoys the spirit of our religion has no trials; but the man or woman who tries to live according to the Gospel of the Son of God, and at the same time clings to the spirit of the world, has trials and sorrows acute and keen, and that, too, continually.
This is the deciding point, the dividing line. They who love and serve God with all their hearts rejoice evermore, pray without ceasing, and in everything give thanks; but they who try to serve God and still cling to the spirit of the world, have got on two yokes — the yoke of Jesus and the yoke of the devil, and they will have plenty to do. They will have a warfare inside and outside, and the labor will be very galling, for they are directly in opposition one to the other. Cast off the yoke of the enemy, and put on the yoke of Christ, and you will say that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. This I know by experience.” — Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses vol. 16 <29 June 1873> page 123)
I'm not so sure I'd quote BY w/ the desire to shine a light on the path out of Babylon. IMO he literally placed the yoke of Babylon upon the saints. From a purely financial standpoint, he changed the law of the tithe, exempted himself, and did many other things while in Utah that were a burden upon the saints.
It's weird to see Brigham teaching truth, considering some of the awful things that happened under him, some of which he was certainly involved with. Still, I don't know that he wasn't a prophet of God, and I don't know that he was. God still hasn't told me. I'm withholding judgment until God tells me what the truth is.
You may wish to draw a comparison between Brigham Young and King Noah in the Book of Mormon. This may help you decide for yourself.

Mike

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