POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.

POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God
83
58%
I believe Brigham Young was a prophet of God
29
20%
I believe John Taylor was a prophet of God
30
21%
 
Total votes: 142
fractal_light_harvest
captain of 100
Posts: 777

POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

A poll to see where people are at in terms of early church presidents/prophets.

Please select all that apply or that you believe to be true. For example if you believe both Joseph and Brigham were legitimate prophets but not Taylor, then casta vote for each of them but not for Taylor in the poll.

Each user can cast up to 3 votes. I would have added a “I believe none of them were prophets of God” option but doing this would open things up to people accidentally or intentionally casting conflicting votes. So if you believe none were, refrain from voting but you could talk about it in the comments.

So up to 3 votes per person. Unlimited duration poll.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10820
Location: England

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Luke »

All of them.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

fractal_light_harvest wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:20 am A poll to see where people are at in terms of early church presidents/prophets.

Please select all that apply or that you believe to be true. For example if you believe both Joseph and Brigham were legitimate prophets but not Taylor, then casta vote for each of them but not for Taylor in the poll.

Each user can cast up to 3 votes. I would have added a “I believe none of them were prophets of God” option but doing this would open things up to people accidentally or intentionally casting conflicting votes. So if you believe none were, refrain from voting but you could talk about it in the comments.

So up to 3 votes per person. Unlimited duration poll.
I’m curious, why those 3? Or why did you stop with Taylor?

Is it because of the parable of the talents?

Or is it because of the parable of the pounds?

Or both?

If a Prophet of God buries his talent, was he still a prophet? If he lets his wife talk him into breaking his bloody covenant, is he still a prophet of God?

One of those two examples didn’t die and the one that didn’t die was because the wife saved him by circumcising her son herself, she didn’t really repent of her hard heart. She still cried in ignorance, saying “A bloody husband thou art”

User avatar
Mindfields
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1900
Location: Utah

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Mindfields »

It's the message not the man.

User avatar
I Dont Know...
captain of 100
Posts: 504
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by I Dont Know... »

Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:16 am
fractal_light_harvest wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:20 am A poll to see where people are at in terms of early church presidents/prophets.

Please select all that apply or that you believe to be true. For example if you believe both Joseph and Brigham were legitimate prophets but not Taylor, then casta vote for each of them but not for Taylor in the poll.

Each user can cast up to 3 votes. I would have added a “I believe none of them were prophets of God” option but doing this would open things up to people accidentally or intentionally casting conflicting votes. So if you believe none were, refrain from voting but you could talk about it in the comments.

So up to 3 votes per person. Unlimited duration poll.
I’m curious, why those 3? Or why did you stop with Taylor?

Is it because of the parable of the talents?

Or is it because of the parable of the pounds?

Or both?

If a Prophet of God buries his talent, was he still a prophet? If he lets his wife talk him into breaking his bloody covenant, is he still a prophet of God?

One of those two examples didn’t die and the one that didn’t die was because the wife saved him by circumcising her son herself, she didn’t really repent of her hard heart. She still cried in ignorance, saying “A bloody husband thou art”
...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to the backsliding Israelites...
...Moses was the prototype for Christ according to Jehovah (Numbers 12: 1 to 14).

...Aaron was a prophet and Miriam a prophetess...

...but because both Aaron and Miriam spoke out against Moses the Lord in his wrath caused Miriam to be cast out from the encampment for 7 days because the Lord had caused her to become leprous. Moses pleaded with the Lord for mercy on behalf of his sister Miriam...the Lord told Moses, Miriam would remain outside the camp for 7 days and then she would be cleansed and allowed back into camp...

...the Lord threatened to annihilate Moses because Moses failed to keep the Lords commandments...ultimately, the Lord chose Moses to fulfill His will...

....I believe in Moses case, he was called before he was born like Jeremiah and John the baptist...

...there are those who are assigned specific roles, to hasten and make straight the way of the Lord...

...but I get your point...
...there are those however, who were prophets but because of offences committed, or sin, were killed by God...

...so yes you can be a prophet called of God and then fall into sin or error...but be very careful...because once called the responsibility given by God comes with a covenant promise. Either to continue to do good and reap the rewards of heaven or not to continue in the light of Christ...and risk the wrath of God...

...there are false prophets...and the reason they appear to get away with all manner of sin and iniquity is because they were never called of God...therefore they have no such covenant promise to break...the day will come when all false prophets will cry, Lord have we not cast out devils in your name...these will go away into everlasting fire and torment...

...a prophet called of God shall be known by his fruits...but one who is not called as a prophet...is indeed not a prophet therefore he is a false prophet...the Lord will deal with all these false prophets in due course...many of these false prophets will turn back to Christ...

...but even false prophets can be identified by their fruits...

...what are the fruits or works of a false prophet?...what were Christs fruits?...it is given for true prophets to raise the dead...cast out devils...heal the sick...

....by this you shall know a false prophet...

Arm Chair Quarterback
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1215

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Arm Chair Quarterback »

You failed to include a none of the above option.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10820
Location: England

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Luke »

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:45 am You failed to include a none of the above option.
He already acknowledged that.

fractal_light_harvest
captain of 100
Posts: 777

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:45 am You failed to include a none of the above option.
I explain why I chose to do that in my initial post just fyi.

Arm Chair Quarterback
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1215

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Arm Chair Quarterback »

fractal_light_harvest wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 11:24 am
Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:45 am You failed to include a none of the above option.
I explain why I chose to do that in my initial post just fyi.
Does this mean I get the “doesn’t pay attention to details” sign painted on my forehead?

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:23 am
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:16 am
fractal_light_harvest wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:20 am A poll to see where people are at in terms of early church presidents/prophets.

Please select all that apply or that you believe to be true. For example if you believe both Joseph and Brigham were legitimate prophets but not Taylor, then casta vote for each of them but not for Taylor in the poll.

Each user can cast up to 3 votes. I would have added a “I believe none of them were prophets of God” option but doing this would open things up to people accidentally or intentionally casting conflicting votes. So if you believe none were, refrain from voting but you could talk about it in the comments.

So up to 3 votes per person. Unlimited duration poll.
I’m curious, why those 3? Or why did you stop with Taylor?

Is it because of the parable of the talents?

Or is it because of the parable of the pounds?

Or both?

If a Prophet of God buries his talent, was he still a prophet? If he lets his wife talk him into breaking his bloody covenant, is he still a prophet of God?

One of those two examples didn’t die and the one that didn’t die was because the wife saved him by circumcising her son herself, she didn’t really repent of her hard heart. She still cried in ignorance, saying “A bloody husband thou art”
...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to the backsliding Israelites...
...Moses was the prototype for Christ according to Jehovah (Numbers 12: 1 to 14).

...Aaron was a prophet and Miriam a prophetess...

...but because both Aaron and Miriam spoke out against Moses the Lord in his wrath caused Miriam to be cast out from the encampment for 7 days because the Lord had caused her to become leprous. Moses pleaded with the Lord for mercy on behalf of his sister Miriam...the Lord told Moses, Miriam would remain outside the camp for 7 days and then she would be cleansed and allowed back into camp...

...the Lord threatened to annihilate Moses because Moses failed to keep the Lords commandments...ultimately, the Lord chose Moses to fulfill His will...

....I believe in Moses case, he was called before he was born like Jeremiah and John the baptist...

...there are those who are assigned specific roles, to hasten and make straight the way of the Lord...

...but I get your point...
...there are those however, who were prophets but because of offences committed, or sin, were killed by God...

...so yes you can be a prophet called of God and then fall into sin or error...but be very careful...because once called the responsibility given by God comes with a covenant promise. Either to continue to do good and reap the rewards of heaven or not to continue in the light of Christ...and risk the wrath of God...

...there are false prophets...and the reason they appear to get away with all manner of sin and iniquity is because they were never called of God...therefore they have no such covenant promise to break...the day will come when all false prophets will cry, Lord have we not cast out devils in your name...these will go away into everlasting fire and torment...

...a prophet called of God shall be known by his fruits...but one who is not called as a prophet...is indeed not a prophet therefore he is a false prophet...the Lord will deal with all these false prophets in due course...many of these false prophets will turn back to Christ...

...but even false prophets can be identified by their fruits...

...what are the fruits or works of a false prophet?...what were Christs fruits?...it is given for true prophets to raise the dead...cast out devils...heal the sick...

....by this you shall know a false prophet...
So Miriam was a false prophetess?

It’s a slippery slope.

Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10936
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

What is the definition of prophet?

Are we going off what the LDS Church says a prophet is or are we going off what the scriptures tell us?

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4721

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:05 pm Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.
Since that is clearly false, we can put that in the same category as Joseph teaching that he had done more for the saints than Jesus had.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4721

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Mindfields wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 5:25 am It's the message not the man.
It's the message not the man. Amen!

The mistake of the OP is assuming that if a man does something prophetic, he is always a prophet. Not so!

Joseph translating the BoM= Prophetic
Joseph in the barn with Fanny=Not Prophetic

User avatar
I Dont Know...
captain of 100
Posts: 504
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by I Dont Know... »

Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:05 pm
I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:23 am
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:16 am

I’m curious, why those 3? Or why did you stop with Taylor?

Is it because of the parable of the talents?

Or is it because of the parable of the pounds?

Or both?

If a Prophet of God buries his talent, was he still a prophet? If he lets his wife talk him into breaking his bloody covenant, is he still a prophet of God?

One of those two examples didn’t die and the one that didn’t die was because the wife saved him by circumcising her son herself, she didn’t really repent of her hard heart. She still cried in ignorance, saying “A bloody husband thou art”
...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to the backsliding Israelites...
...Moses was the prototype for Christ according to Jehovah (Numbers 12: 1 to 14).

...Aaron was a prophet and Miriam a prophetess...

...but because both Aaron and Miriam spoke out against Moses the Lord in his wrath caused Miriam to be cast out from the encampment for 7 days because the Lord had caused her to become leprous. Moses pleaded with the Lord for mercy on behalf of his sister Miriam...the Lord told Moses, Miriam would remain outside the camp for 7 days and then she would be cleansed and allowed back into camp...

...the Lord threatened to annihilate Moses because Moses failed to keep the Lords commandments...ultimately, the Lord chose Moses to fulfill His will...

....I believe in Moses case, he was called before he was born like Jeremiah and John the baptist...

...there are those who are assigned specific roles, to hasten and make straight the way of the Lord...

...but I get your point...
...there are those however, who were prophets but because of offences committed, or sin, were killed by God...

...so yes you can be a prophet called of God and then fall into sin or error...but be very careful...because once called the responsibility given by God comes with a covenant promise. Either to continue to do good and reap the rewards of heaven or not to continue in the light of Christ...and risk the wrath of God...

...there are false prophets...and the reason they appear to get away with all manner of sin and iniquity is because they were never called of God...therefore they have no such covenant promise to break...the day will come when all false prophets will cry, Lord have we not cast out devils in your name...these will go away into everlasting fire and torment...

...a prophet called of God shall be known by his fruits...but one who is not called as a prophet...is indeed not a prophet therefore he is a false prophet...the Lord will deal with all these false prophets in due course...many of these false prophets will turn back to Christ...

...but even false prophets can be identified by their fruits...

...what are the fruits or works of a false prophet?...what were Christs fruits?...it is given for true prophets to raise the dead...cast out devils...heal the sick...

....by this you shall know a false prophet...
So Miriam was a false prophetess?

It’s a slippery slope.

Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.
...Miriam was a true prophet (Exodus 15:20)..but both she and Aaron erred...therefore she drew the wrath of God...

...why Aaron did not draw Gods wrath is a mystery to me as they both murmured against Moses because he had married an Ethiopian woman...but Aaron and Miriam did humble themselves and restored their own hearts back to God...

...the point being, Jehovah was making a statement to both Aaron and Miriam because they had spoken out against His chosen vessel, Moses...

...Jehovah spoke with Aaron and Miriam in visions and dreams...BUT with Moses it was not so...Jehovah spoke to Moses as a friend...face to face...

...a friend of the Lord is greater than a prophet or servant...this relationship denotes the closeness of heart, mind and thought to Christ...John spoke about this type of relationship because he was also a friend of Christ...a friend knows what you need without asking...but a servant requires direct instructions and then will straight away do the will of the Lord...

...Aaron and Miriam erred because they had both claimed to be Moses equal in receiving communications from Jehovah...Jehovah made it clear that He would make it known that a prophet was so called... by receiving a vision and He would speak to a prophet in dreams...

...both Aaron and Miriam were prophets according to Jehovah...

...the point Jehovah is making to the Israelites and to the world is...just because one is called as a prophet, does not mean a prophet cannot err...every prophet will or has erred...

...it is a false doctrine that a prophet is infallible according to Jehovah...

...being a prophet relies on the faith, humility and repentance of that man or woman...the truly repentant man or woman will receive communication directly from God...that He has heard your heartfelt prayers and has accepted your efforts to come to know Christ...

...the testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy (Rev 19)...all those who have the gift of prophecy are prophets...

...prophets can have bad days...some of them, very bad days!

...if our faith is in God and Christ...we will know the truth and the truth will set us free...lest we become man worshippers...and forget Christ...

...I choose Christ...

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:25 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:05 pm
I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:23 am

...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to the backsliding Israelites...
...Moses was the prototype for Christ according to Jehovah (Numbers 12: 1 to 14).

...Aaron was a prophet and Miriam a prophetess...

...but because both Aaron and Miriam spoke out against Moses the Lord in his wrath caused Miriam to be cast out from the encampment for 7 days because the Lord had caused her to become leprous. Moses pleaded with the Lord for mercy on behalf of his sister Miriam...the Lord told Moses, Miriam would remain outside the camp for 7 days and then she would be cleansed and allowed back into camp...

...the Lord threatened to annihilate Moses because Moses failed to keep the Lords commandments...ultimately, the Lord chose Moses to fulfill His will...

....I believe in Moses case, he was called before he was born like Jeremiah and John the baptist...

...there are those who are assigned specific roles, to hasten and make straight the way of the Lord...

...but I get your point...
...there are those however, who were prophets but because of offences committed, or sin, were killed by God...

...so yes you can be a prophet called of God and then fall into sin or error...but be very careful...because once called the responsibility given by God comes with a covenant promise. Either to continue to do good and reap the rewards of heaven or not to continue in the light of Christ...and risk the wrath of God...

...there are false prophets...and the reason they appear to get away with all manner of sin and iniquity is because they were never called of God...therefore they have no such covenant promise to break...the day will come when all false prophets will cry, Lord have we not cast out devils in your name...these will go away into everlasting fire and torment...

...a prophet called of God shall be known by his fruits...but one who is not called as a prophet...is indeed not a prophet therefore he is a false prophet...the Lord will deal with all these false prophets in due course...many of these false prophets will turn back to Christ...

...but even false prophets can be identified by their fruits...

...what are the fruits or works of a false prophet?...what were Christs fruits?...it is given for true prophets to raise the dead...cast out devils...heal the sick...

....by this you shall know a false prophet...
So Miriam was a false prophetess?

It’s a slippery slope.

Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.
...Miriam was a true prophet (Exodus 15:20)..but both she and Aaron erred...therefore she drew the wrath of God...

...why Aaron did not draw Gods wrath is a mystery to me as they both murmured against Moses because he had married an Ethiopian woman...but Aaron and Miriam did humble themselves and restored their own hearts back to God...

...the point being, Jehovah was making a statement to both Aaron and Miriam because they had spoken out against His chosen vessel, Moses...

...Jehovah spoke with Aaron and Miriam in visions and dreams...BUT with Moses it was not so...Jehovah spoke to Moses as a friend...face to face...

...a friend of the Lord is greater than a prophet or servant...this relationship denotes the closeness of heart, mind and thought to Christ...John spoke about this type of relationship because he was also a friend of Christ...a friend knows what you need without asking...but a servant requires direct instructions and then will straight away do the will of the Lord...

...Aaron and Miriam erred because they had both claimed to be Moses equal in receiving communications from Jehovah...Jehovah made it clear that He would make it known that a prophet was so called... by receiving a vision and He would speak to a prophet in dreams...

...both Aaron and Miriam were prophets according to Jehovah...

...the point Jehovah is making to the Israelites and to the world is...just because one is called as a prophet, does not mean a prophet cannot err...every prophet will or has erred...

...it is a false doctrine that a prophet is infallible according to Jehovah...

...being a prophet relies on the faith, humility and repentance of that man or woman...the truly repentant man or woman will receive communication directly from God...that He has heard your heartfelt prayers and has accepted your efforts to come to know Christ...

...the testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy (Rev 19)...all those who have the gift of prophecy are prophets...

...prophets can have bad days...some of them, very bad days!

...if our faith is in God and Christ...we will know the truth and the truth will set us free...lest we become man worshippers...and forget Christ...

...I choose Christ...
20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

By title she was a prophetess, a true prophet by your own standard, she was not.

A true prophet/prophetess would not let their emotions get the better of them like Miriam did. Aaron tried to reason with her but he fell to her cries. We know this because Yahweh did not punish Aaron.

In other words, Miriam was a chorister who thought they had a valid opinion.

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15806
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

By their fruits ye shall know them.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:32 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:05 pm Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.
Since that is clearly false, we can put that in the same category as Joseph teaching that he had done more for the saints than Jesus had.
Joseph Smith taught: "A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus" (History of the Church, 3:381; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on June 27, 1839)

Is personal revelation not prophecy?

Am I splitting hairs with the words I use?

Who would split hairs, Yahweh or Diabolou?


Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

SJR3t2 wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 12:00 am Brigham Young and John Taylor both helped murder Joseph Smith.
https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/joseph-smiths-murder/
So people making counterfeit money in Kirtland and Nauvoo had nothing to do with the death of Joseph Smith?

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 9078
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 9:23 pm
same day
Doubious prophecy, nevertheless “same day” may refer to the same day in another year, such as what happened for a few years on March 8.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

BeNotDeceived wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 4:04 am
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 9:23 pm
same day
Doubious prophecy, nevertheless “same day” may refer to the same day in another year, such as what happened for a few years on March 8.
Maybe, maybe we are just puppet like the devil wants us to believe?

User avatar
I Dont Know...
captain of 100
Posts: 504
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by I Dont Know... »

Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:41 pm
I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:25 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 12:05 pm

So Miriam was a false prophetess?

It’s a slippery slope.

Jospeh taught that all priesthood holders are prophets.
...Miriam was a true prophet (Exodus 15:20)..but both she and Aaron erred...therefore she drew the wrath of God...

...why Aaron did not draw Gods wrath is a mystery to me as they both murmured against Moses because he had married an Ethiopian woman...but Aaron and Miriam did humble themselves and restored their own hearts back to God...

...the point being, Jehovah was making a statement to both Aaron and Miriam because they had spoken out against His chosen vessel, Moses...

...Jehovah spoke with Aaron and Miriam in visions and dreams...BUT with Moses it was not so...Jehovah spoke to Moses as a friend...face to face...

...a friend of the Lord is greater than a prophet or servant...this relationship denotes the closeness of heart, mind and thought to Christ...John spoke about this type of relationship because he was also a friend of Christ...a friend knows what you need without asking...but a servant requires direct instructions and then will straight away do the will of the Lord...

...Aaron and Miriam erred because they had both claimed to be Moses equal in receiving communications from Jehovah...Jehovah made it clear that He would make it known that a prophet was so called... by receiving a vision and He would speak to a prophet in dreams...

...both Aaron and Miriam were prophets according to Jehovah...

...the point Jehovah is making to the Israelites and to the world is...just because one is called as a prophet, does not mean a prophet cannot err...every prophet will or has erred...

...it is a false doctrine that a prophet is infallible according to Jehovah...

...being a prophet relies on the faith, humility and repentance of that man or woman...the truly repentant man or woman will receive communication directly from God...that He has heard your heartfelt prayers and has accepted your efforts to come to know Christ...

...the testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy (Rev 19)...all those who have the gift of prophecy are prophets...

...prophets can have bad days...some of them, very bad days!

...if our faith is in God and Christ...we will know the truth and the truth will set us free...lest we become man worshippers...and forget Christ...

...I choose Christ...
20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

By title she was a prophetess, a true prophet by your own standard, she was not.

A true prophet/prophetess would not let their emotions get the better of them like Miriam did. Aaron tried to reason with her but he fell to her cries. We know this because Yahweh did not punish Aaron.

In other words, Miriam was a chorister who thought they had a valid opinion.
…perhaps you are right...oh wait...sorry, let me just check what Jehovah had to say about Miriam the chorister...just to confirm the truthfulness of your report....give me a sec...I'll be right back...

Numbers 12: 5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth...

...who has heard such a thing!...why did Jehovah call the chorister lady?...Should He really be talking with the hired help?...oh well, never mind...

...perhaps Jehovah will clear things up and put Miriam where she belongs...next to wine bibbers, harlots and publicans...mmmm...probably not a good example...seeing as the harlots and publicans go in to heaven before the Pharisees and scribes...

okay...lets see...


Numbers 12: 6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream...

...Jehovah will make himself known to a prophet in a vision, and speak to him in a dream...

Numbers 12:

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?...

...as I have already stated...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to a faithless, godless, backsliding, demanding, criticizing, moaning bunch of has-beens, who thought more of their own counsel than the voice of God...if it wasn't for Moses the lot of them would have been wiped out by Jehovah...and I'm not talking about mormons???...in saying that...they were Jehovah's has-beens...and He did eventually allow some of them into the promised land...all but the unrepentant and prideful...there's no hiding the content of ones heart from Christ...

Numbers 12:

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

...unless the Lord was using modern language to identify Miriam by her pronoun - them; I'm going to suggest Jehovah was speaking to both Aaron and Miriam...

Numbers 12:

10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.

...Aaron asks Moses for forgiveness because he knows that Moses is the voice of the Lord to the people and he knows the Lord will listen to Moses...Aaron continues...

12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.

13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.

...remember...Miriam is Moses sister whom he loves...Moses was not offended by his brother and sister...but the Lord was offended because Moses was His chosen and anointed one...in the similitude of the only begotten...

Numbers 12:

14 And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.

16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.

...note that the whole house of Israel did not move until Miriam was restored...the people could only move when the cloud by day moved...it (the Lord) stood still for 7 days...

....to your point regarding Aaron and his efforts to reason with her...there is absolutely no scripture or reference to what you have claimed...further you have claimed on behalf of Jehovah that Aaron MUST have done so because he was not punished...that's a mighty large flaming sword you are carrying, speaking as it were...for the Lord...you do yourself a disservice putting words in both Aaron and Jehovah's mouths...words that are just not there...be careful my friend...just because you do not see Christ...doesn't mean He does not see you...

...there were those among the Israelites who spoke out against Moses and Aaron...it did not go at all well for those men and their families...in fact it was positively devastating...

...there will always be those who speak out against the true words of God and against true prophets like Aaron and Miriam...


...the way I see it...until men quit worshipping men...the harlots and the publicans will continue to enter through the gates of Zion...while the Pharisees, Sadducees, High Priests, Chief Priest, Scribes and Elders will continue to fornicate with the kings and queens, and merchants of Babylon, until the angel having great power, comes down from heaven proclaiming -

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was alightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18

User avatar
I Dont Know...
captain of 100
Posts: 504
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by I Dont Know... »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 8:34 pm By their fruits ye shall know them.
...or lack thereof!...

User avatar
Reluctant Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 15806
Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
Contact:

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I Dont Know... wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 9:48 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 8:34 pm By their fruits ye shall know them.
...or lack thereof!...
exactly!

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3677

Re: POLL — Which were prophets of God? Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and/or John Taylor?

Post by Bronco73idi »

I Dont Know... wrote: April 3rd, 2024, 9:46 am
Bronco73idi wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 7:41 pm
I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:25 pm

...Miriam was a true prophet (Exodus 15:20)..but both she and Aaron erred...therefore she drew the wrath of God...

...why Aaron did not draw Gods wrath is a mystery to me as they both murmured against Moses because he had married an Ethiopian woman...but Aaron and Miriam did humble themselves and restored their own hearts back to God...

...the point being, Jehovah was making a statement to both Aaron and Miriam because they had spoken out against His chosen vessel, Moses...

...Jehovah spoke with Aaron and Miriam in visions and dreams...BUT with Moses it was not so...Jehovah spoke to Moses as a friend...face to face...

...a friend of the Lord is greater than a prophet or servant...this relationship denotes the closeness of heart, mind and thought to Christ...John spoke about this type of relationship because he was also a friend of Christ...a friend knows what you need without asking...but a servant requires direct instructions and then will straight away do the will of the Lord...

...Aaron and Miriam erred because they had both claimed to be Moses equal in receiving communications from Jehovah...Jehovah made it clear that He would make it known that a prophet was so called... by receiving a vision and He would speak to a prophet in dreams...

...both Aaron and Miriam were prophets according to Jehovah...

...the point Jehovah is making to the Israelites and to the world is...just because one is called as a prophet, does not mean a prophet cannot err...every prophet will or has erred...

...it is a false doctrine that a prophet is infallible according to Jehovah...

...being a prophet relies on the faith, humility and repentance of that man or woman...the truly repentant man or woman will receive communication directly from God...that He has heard your heartfelt prayers and has accepted your efforts to come to know Christ...

...the testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy (Rev 19)...all those who have the gift of prophecy are prophets...

...prophets can have bad days...some of them, very bad days!

...if our faith is in God and Christ...we will know the truth and the truth will set us free...lest we become man worshippers...and forget Christ...

...I choose Christ...
20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

By title she was a prophetess, a true prophet by your own standard, she was not.

A true prophet/prophetess would not let their emotions get the better of them like Miriam did. Aaron tried to reason with her but he fell to her cries. We know this because Yahweh did not punish Aaron.

In other words, Miriam was a chorister who thought they had a valid opinion.
…perhaps you are right...oh wait...sorry, let me just check what Jehovah had to say about Miriam the chorister...just to confirm the truthfulness of your report....give me a sec...I'll be right back...

Numbers 12: 5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth...

...who has heard such a thing!...why did Jehovah call the chorister lady?...Should He really be talking with the hired help?...oh well, never mind...

...perhaps Jehovah will clear things up and put Miriam where she belongs...next to wine bibbers, harlots and publicans...mmmm...probably not a good example...seeing as the harlots and publicans go in to heaven before the Pharisees and scribes...

okay...lets see...


Numbers 12: 6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream...

...Jehovah will make himself known to a prophet in a vision, and speak to him in a dream...

Numbers 12:

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?...

...as I have already stated...Moses was not a prophet...he was the voice of God to a faithless, godless, backsliding, demanding, criticizing, moaning bunch of has-beens, who thought more of their own counsel than the voice of God...if it wasn't for Moses the lot of them would have been wiped out by Jehovah...and I'm not talking about mormons???...in saying that...they were Jehovah's has-beens...and He did eventually allow some of them into the promised land...all but the unrepentant and prideful...there's no hiding the content of ones heart from Christ...

Numbers 12:

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

...unless the Lord was using modern language to identify Miriam by her pronoun - them; I'm going to suggest Jehovah was speaking to both Aaron and Miriam...

Numbers 12:

10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.

...Aaron asks Moses for forgiveness because he knows that Moses is the voice of the Lord to the people and he knows the Lord will listen to Moses...Aaron continues...

12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.

13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.

...remember...Miriam is Moses sister whom he loves...Moses was not offended by his brother and sister...but the Lord was offended because Moses was His chosen and anointed one...in the similitude of the only begotten...

Numbers 12:

14 And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.

16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.

...note that the whole house of Israel did not move until Miriam was restored...the people could only move when the cloud by day moved...it (the Lord) stood still for 7 days...

....to your point regarding Aaron and his efforts to reason with her...there is absolutely no scripture or reference to what you have claimed...further you have claimed on behalf of Jehovah that Aaron MUST have done so because he was not punished...that's a mighty large flaming sword you are carrying, speaking as it were...for the Lord...you do yourself a disservice putting words in both Aaron and Jehovah's mouths...words that are just not there...be careful my friend...just because you do not see Christ...doesn't mean He does not see you...

...there were those among the Israelites who spoke out against Moses and Aaron...it did not go at all well for those men and their families...in fact it was positively devastating...

...there will always be those who speak out against the true words of God and against true prophets like Aaron and Miriam...


...the way I see it...until men quit worshipping men...the harlots and the publicans will continue to enter through the gates of Zion...while the Pharisees, Sadducees, High Priests, Chief Priest, Scribes and Elders will continue to fornicate with the kings and queens, and merchants of Babylon, until the angel having great power, comes down from heaven proclaiming -

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was alightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18
What’s your point about Miriam? She was Moses sister and the Lord caved in…..

Did the Lord want Aaron?

I’m glad you think Moses was better the Abraham and Adam….

All of the scripture you quoted shows her doing nothing of what you, yourself said on how to judge a prophet!

Sorry to say brother, it was a waste of words when we judge them to actions!
Last edited by Bronco73idi on April 3rd, 2024, 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply