I can't believe I am posting.

[EndTimesBeliever]

I have been lurking here for several years (my guess is 7). Over the years I have felt several times that I benefited from what was posted. Other times I have felt that I had something of value to add to the conversation. I have considered joining the forum multiple times, but have, until now, always decided not to go through with it. In part, not joining would be due to my self-conscious, perfectionist personality along with my anxiety, OCD tendencies, and being prone to addiction. Another thing holding me back was that I have lurked here long enough to be fully aware that a good many threads are derailed and deteriorate into bickering between a few individuals, limiting the good that could come from the conversation. At any rate, here I am posting; giving an honest effort to get out of my comfort zone; hoping that it is the spirit that is guiding me to do so and that I will not regret this decision.

I used to know a good many things. Now that I am in my mid-fifties, I know very little. There are few things that I would claim that I KNOW. These include: 1. There are two genders. 2. Feminism is rooted in evil and has done much to tear down individual lives as well as the world as a whole. 3. The Doctrine and Covenants changed about 7 years ago.

I am sure many will not believe the last one, but 7 years ago, before being admitted to the hospital for a week's stay, I read several chapters in the D&C. I read these chapters out load, but in a whisper, while I circled every single word, one by one, with my eyes. These chapters were about building the temple in the New Jerusalem (Missouri); what to name the buildings, where to locate the buildings, how to measure the buildings, etc. At some point after returning home from the hospital, I tried to find these chapters and they are nowhere to be found. What exactly this means, I am not sure. It may be that I was changed to a different time line, and different time lines have different scriptures. It could be that time travel is possible and that God really did give Satan the power change the past and the times. Maybe it is both of these things or other options that I haven't thought of. At any rate, I KNOW that God allowed for the scriptures to be changed, for what purpose and benefit I cannot say. I am choosing to trust in Him and believe that there is some way this works towards our good.

The reason that I am telling you this, is that I read a post a short time ago where people were discussing why the church is changing history and I have skimmed many posts where people are bickering about "the facts." I just thought to encourage you to be cautious about making firm conclusions. There are multiple things going on. Wicked people really are changing things to vilify leaders of the past, who although human were good people and did not do many of the things that are being attributed to them now. We are in the time of the unveiling where things that were hidden are coming to light, so some of the new things we are hearing and learning are true. Some people have pretended to be righteous while hiding many wicked tendencies from public view. It appears that time travel is possible and someone (person, spirit, extra-terrestrial, ?) can go back in history and change the records and that changes all the records moving forward from that point. Do you really believe that you have the ability to tell which is which in every situation? Maybe some of the things that cause heated debate should be "tabled" until Christ comes (i.e. Brigham Young did this or that. Joseph Smith did this or that.) just like most of us have come to live with the fact that we really won't know the truth about dinosaurs until after this life.

If there are multiple time lines, and different things happen on different time lines, how can we even pretend to guess which version of history will count when we are being judged? Our consciousness is here in this time line, so we must move forward with faith and effort to live righteously in the here and now and behave like this is the history/life that we will be judged on, but maybe we should leave it open to the possibility that this is not the time line that counts for all people. Maybe on a different time line they are doing much better and that is the one that counts for them. Could we all exist in multiple time lines at the same time and have at least one where we are really good and that is the one that counts? I don't know, but these are some of the things I have wondered about for the last 7 years.

[creator]

Welcome to the forum EndTimesBeliever.

The mandela effect is an interesting theory.

D&C 84 has a few verses about the New Jerusalem and where to build it. Could it be that you were also reading something like the Book of Revelation chapter 21?

I tend to think time travel is not possible and that we are only ever in the present. But I also realize that God exists outside of time and space, as he is the creator of time and space. And so I realize I don't fully understand "time".

[nightlight]

One time *circle*

[creator]

..The reason that I am telling you this, is that I read a post a short time ago where people were discussing why the church is changing history and I have skimmed many posts where people are bickering about "the facts." I just thought to encourage you to be cautious about making firm conclusions. There are multiple things going on...

Agreed. While I'm unsure about things changing due to time travel, we don't always understand the perspective and culture of the past, and we don't always have enough information to make accurate conclusions. Sometimes new information comes to light. Sometimes we've relied on non-contemporaneous twisting of history. Sometimes the published history gets revised, etc.

One time *circle*

Aren't you going to expound?..

[LateOutOfBed]

Welcome to the forum. Great first post. I think pride is one of the worst things that tend to be shown in disagreements here on the forum. I like your approach and thoughts, especially on how things can and have changed. I too "KNOW" very little (I do believe a lot though, but most of my beliefs could change with the right information). I'm trying to have a soft heart so that God can teach me instead of leaning on my own knowledge to know the truth. I think you'll find many like-minded folks here too.

[logonbump]

I can vouch for the scripture changes. I saw them happen and freaked out as I remembered them. These are some I remember and tagged as effected:
(I wish I had read the D&C and recognized those changes)

James 2
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe,
and tremble
Used to be demons also believe, not devils.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Used to be two by two

Luke 17
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Used to be grinding at the mill

Matthew 26

45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners
them,
Used to be wilt thou sleep on now,..

Matthew 9
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Used to be Wineskins not bottles

Amos 7
14 ¶ Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet’s son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
Used to Be I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet;...

Isaiah 53
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Used to be by his stripes are healed

John 3:
16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Used to be believeth on him shall not perish.
Proverbs 16
18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Used to be Pride goeth before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction

John 8
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
Used to be shall set you free

2 Corinthians 11
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
Used to be bear well with him

Mark 13
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Used to be winter or on the Sabbath day

These are changed from the past King James Version which is the only one I've ever read.

[WikiUp]

This is why I only read paper scriptures.

Electronic scriptures are easy to change and then difficult to find the changes.

[creator]

This is why I only read paper scriptures..

I was assuming they were referring to the Mandela effect, meaning that the alleged changes would also appear in the printed paper versions.

The Mandela effect is a type of false memory that occurs when many different people incorrectly remember the same thing. It refers to a widespread false memory that Nelson Mandela died in prison in the 1980s.

False memories? or some kind of divine changing of the past??? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Robin Hood]

I can vouch for the scripture changes. I saw them happen and freaked out as I remembered them. These are some I remember and tagged as effected:
(I wish I had read the D&C and recognized those changes)

James 2
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe,
and tremble
Used to be demons also believe, not devils.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Used to be two by two

Luke 17
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Used to be grinding at the mill

Matthew 26

45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners
them,
Used to be wilt thou sleep on now,..

Matthew 9
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Used to be Wineskins not bottles

Amos 7
14 ¶ Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet’s son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
Used to Be I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet;...

Isaiah 53
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Used to be by his stripes are healed

John 3:
16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Used to be believeth on him shall not perish.
Proverbs 16
18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Used to be Pride goeth before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction

John 8
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
Used to be shall set you free

2 Corinthians 11
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
Used to be bear well with him

Mark 13
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Used to be winter or on the Sabbath day

These are changed from the past King James Version which is the only one I've ever read.

Just checked my old KJV and in every case the verses you quote are identical to my more recently published one, and to the online version. There is no difference.
Can you clarify?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Were any of you on certain hallucinogens at the time of these occurrences? Certainly a point worth noting if so...

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

I have been lurking here for several years (my guess is 7). Over the years I have felt several times that I benefited from what was posted. Other times I have felt that I had something of value to add to the conversation. I have considered joining the forum multiple times, but have, until now, always decided not to go through with it. In part, not joining would be due to my self-conscious, perfectionist personality along with my anxiety, OCD tendencies, and being prone to addiction. Another thing holding me back was that I have lurked here long enough to be fully aware that a good many threads are derailed and deteriorate into bickering between a few individuals, limiting the good that could come from the conversation. At any rate, here I am posting; giving an honest effort to get out of my comfort zone; hoping that it is the spirit that is guiding me to do so and that I will not regret this decision.

I used to know a good many things. Now that I am in my mid-fifties, I know very little. There are few things that I would claim that I KNOW. These include: 1. There are two genders. 2. Feminism is rooted in evil and has done much to tear down individual lives as well as the world as a whole. 3. The Doctrine and Covenants changed about 7 years ago.

I am sure many will not believe the last one, but 7 years ago, before being admitted to the hospital for a week's stay, I read several chapters in the D&C. I read these chapters out load, but in a whisper, while I circled every single word, one by one, with my eyes. These chapters were about building the temple in the New Jerusalem (Missouri); what to name the buildings, where to locate the buildings, how to measure the buildings, etc. At some point after returning home from the hospital, I tried to find these chapters and they are nowhere to be found. What exactly this means, I am not sure. It may be that I was changed to a different time line, and different time lines have different scriptures. It could be that time travel is possible and that God really did give Satan the power change the past and the times. Maybe it is both of these things or other options that I haven't thought of. At any rate, I KNOW that God allowed for the scriptures to be changed, for what purpose and benefit I cannot say. I am choosing to trust in Him and believe that there is some way this works towards our good.

The reason that I am telling you this, is that I read a post a short time ago where people were discussing why the church is changing history and I have skimmed many posts where people are bickering about "the facts." I just thought to encourage you to be cautious about making firm conclusions. There are multiple things going on. Wicked people really are changing things to vilify leaders of the past, who although human were good people and did not do many of the things that are being attributed to them now. We are in the time of the unveiling where things that were hidden are coming to light, so some of the new things we are hearing and learning are true. Some people have pretended to be righteous while hiding many wicked tendencies from public view. It appears that time travel is possible and someone (person, spirit, extra-terrestrial, ?) can go back in history and change the records and that changes all the records moving forward from that point. Do you really believe that you have the ability to tell which is which in every situation? Maybe some of the things that cause heated debate should be "tabled" until Christ comes (i.e. Brigham Young did this or that. Joseph Smith did this or that.) just like most of us have come to live with the fact that we really won't know the truth about dinosaurs until after this life.

If there are multiple time lines, and different things happen on different time lines, how can we even pretend to guess which version of history will count when we are being judged? Our consciousness is here in this time line, so we must move forward with faith and effort to live righteously in the here and now and behave like this is the history/life that we will be judged on, but maybe we should leave it open to the possibility that this is not the time line that counts for all people. Maybe on a different time line they are doing much better and that is the one that counts for them. Could we all exist in multiple time lines at the same time and have at least one where we are really good and that is the one that counts? I don't know, but these are some of the things I have wondered about for the last 7 years.

A simpler analysis is that back in the past some people lied, some people told the truth, some people told part of what they knew and held back parts, and as more and more documents are discovered a more accurate picture is slowly coming together. Not another dimension of time. Just more corroborating evidence. And the means (internet) to disseminate that information.

[honestseeker12]

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

[creator]

...it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

What they typically show in movies, such as the obsession with a multiverse, seems to be more of a distortion and distraction from the truth. Just like NASA and Sci-Fi have distorted the truth about the universe and what actually exists beyond the Earth.

[Telavian]

Welcome. I agree that some things are not worth bickering about. However, I think some things are.
If God allows the scriptures to be changed, presumably from day to day, then what is the iron rod for us to follow?
Why should I even trust in God then?

This is not to suggest that the scriptures are perfect or can't be altered. However, if we have nothing to trust as a source of divine knowledge, then we really have nothing to trust at all.

[Niemand]

People put a lot of stock in their memories being reliable, when evidence has always proven that they are often not so. The original Mandela Effect was ?Steve Biko dying in prison and people conflating him with Nelson Mandela. Here in the UK, we had much more prominent coverage of apartheid-era South Africa and so you don't run into people who remember Mandela dying in custody. (Or at least I haven't. ) Much more common in the USA, where it was a smaller news item.

The idea of Satan being able to mess around with the past is unscriptural I think and raises some serious issues with Free Will.

[EndTimesBeliever]

***Edited to quote other posts in the correct way.***

This is why I only read paper scriptures.

Electronic scriptures are easy to change and then difficult to find the changes.

I am talking about changes in hard copy printed scripture on paper. I was reading from my hard copy of the D&C when I read the scriptures and they are now missing from that exact same copy of the D&C that I still have in my possession. I do agree though, being digital makes things easier to change. It is much harder to change handwritten history. This is in part why "they" push to not teach cursive writing in school anymore, so that people will not be able to go back and read the historical record as written by the person that experienced it.

I have definitely been more interested in the Mandela Effect after my experience than I was before it. I have seen videos of many of the things that people say have changed, there are a few that I have an opinion on, but most I wasn't paying enough attention, or never saw the show, etc. to have an opinion one way or the other. The one that really shook me was the change in Isaiah 11:6 which used to say "The lion shall lie down with the lamb." but now says "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb." My parent's had a big picture of a Lion with a Lamb with the scripture printed on it hanging on our wall in our kitchen/dinning area when I was growing up. When I looked up the scripture to verify I was completely shocked and found it very off-putting to find pictures of a wolf and lamb on the internet. It just feels so wrong.

Were any of you on certain hallucinogens at the time of these occurrences? Certainly a point worth noting if so...

Most certainly not. But I do hope to share my story with you because I went through some mighty strange experiences before and after the incident that I am talking about. It has been seven years or fervent prayer to try to find answers, and mostly God is silent. I am hoping that if I formulate the experiences into words it will help me process the information better and maybe gain some insights. Maybe some of you will be able to provide some help that will lead me to answers.

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

Yes, I have seen Loki. I was quite intrigued with it mostly due to my experience. It is a good representation of what I am saying about different time lines. That and "The Flash." I am certain that before my personal experience with it I would have completely dismissed it as a possibility. I have no idea what the truth is, other than it will not be the simple, cut and dried truth that I used to believe it would be. I was excited to see that the next season of Loki came out and just watched it about a month ago. I would have to say that the ending left me somewhat bothered.

Welcome. I agree that some things are not worth bickering about. However, I think some things are.
If God allows the scriptures to be changed, presumably from day to day, then what is the iron rod for us to follow?
Why should I even trust in God then?

This is not to suggest that the scriptures are perfect or can't be altered. However, if we have nothing to trust as a source of divine knowledge, then we really have nothing to trust at all.

I believe that I have struggled with this sentiment quite a bit over the last several years. If I know one thing changed, but didn't have the scriptures memorized to the point that I can spot other changes, how am I to know what is changed and what is truth? Are there other changes that alter meanings and will result in misunderstanding that lead away from God?

To be honest, I have hardly read my scriptures since this experience. I do follow different people that often expound and quote scriptures and I focus on watching the signs of the times as I am still a firm believer in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Redeemer. (This in contrast to the four-year period of time that I read my scriptures almost every day. I read the entire standard works along with the manuals that explained them (the old ones with a lot of information) as well as every Ensign and other church books as well. Other time periods of my life I was somewhere in between the two extremes of scripture study/reading.)

I have not told many people about this experience until now. 1. Why would anyone believe me? 2. What if people do believe me? Will I shake their faith like mine has been shaken? Are people strong enough to know that the truth is not as simple as what we have been led to believe in the church?

On the other hand, will sharing help people to prepare for future things that will be unveiled during the apocalypses? Will it help them to be prepared for what is coming and be able to maintain their faith in God because they were forewarned that things are really a bit stranger than we imagined them to be?

People put a lot of stock in their memories being reliable, when evidence has always proven that they are often not so. The original Mandela Effect was ?Steve Biko dying in prison and people conflating him with Nelson Mandela. Here in the UK, we had much more prominent coverage of apartheid-era South Africa and so you don't run into people who remember Mandela dying in custody. (Or at least I haven't. ) Much more common in the USA, where it was a smaller news item.

The idea of Satan being able to mess around with the past is unscriptural I think and raises some serious issues with Free Will.

I equate my experience to be along the lines of Joseph Smith's First Vision in the sense that I know it happened and I know that God knows it happened and I will not deny it. Strong unmistakable experience that I am not misremembering in the macro. (Truthfully in the micro I don't remember all the details. What were the chapter numbers for instance? Was if four or five chapters I read?)

I will have to do some research to find the You-Tube video that talked about Satan being given the power to change the times, but that in the end it will do him no good and he will fail anyway. I believe that they quoted a scripture to back it up. I am not very good at bookmarking videos that I may want to refer back to and can't always locate the one part that I want to share that is sandwiched in the middle of some video that is titled by something completely different than the one part that was meaningful to me. So, if it isn't too hard to locate it I will let you know the scripture, but I probably won't spend hours on trying to find it, so I may not report back on that.

[Wolfwoman]

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

I loved the Loki season one on Disney+!
My husband didn’t like that Loki was a woman in one of the timelines though.
But I thought the whole season was so interesting and fun to think about. We also cancelled our Disney + membership after that, so I haven’t seen season 2 which I think is out now.

As to the OP, I have never read the scriptures that were mentioned, except for the part about Zion and the temple were supposed to be built in Missouri.

[Jonesy]

I know similarly how you may feel about your lost scriptures! I was overseas by myself recently and lost my favorite pair of khakis—I mean, I only had two. One I tossed and the other I kept. Then the next week I could only find my old pair—I had thrown away in the trash my new ones on accident! I looked everywhere! So I went to church in those. The next week after I washed them I couldn’t find that pair! Unloaded the drier several times to check. Then they magically showed up in the drier despite trying to find them—but the plot twist is that I found the new ones, though—not the old ones! I now lost the old pair and magically found the new. Completely baffled. I know what I saw! Biggest mind bend of my life.

[Jonesy]

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

I loved the Loki season one on Disney+!
My husband didn’t like that Loki was a woman in one of the timelines though.
But I thought the whole season was so interesting and fun to think about. We also cancelled our Disney + membership after that, so I haven’t seen season 2 which I think is out now.

As to the OP, I have never read the scriptures that were mentioned, except for the part about Zion and the temple were supposed to be built in Missouri.

Yes! I’m not a Loki fan, but I got wrapped in because of the plot about timelines. Fascinating. In reality, I do believe God controls the divine timeline in the end.

[honestseeker12]

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

I loved the Loki season one on Disney+!
My husband didn’t like that Loki was a woman in one of the timelines though.
But I thought the whole season was so interesting and fun to think about. We also cancelled our Disney + membership after that, so I haven’t seen season 2 which I think is out now.

As to the OP, I have never read the scriptures that were mentioned, except for the part about Zion and the temple were supposed to be built in Missouri.

I don't think I saw the episode where Loki was a woman. I would not have liked that part. I believe that gender is eternal no matter what timeline we may or may not be on. (I don't think gender changes.)

[Wolfwoman]

Have any of you seen Loki on Disney Plus? A couple of years ago, I saw the first season of Loki, but then I cancelled my Disney Plus membership because Disney was promoting too many things that I disagreed with. However, Loki was interesting about the time line thing. I can't remember everything, but it seemed to show time didn't behave in just a linear fashion, and there were even parallel universes, both good and bad Lokis in a different point in time, etc. I used to think this was all just sci-fi, but these last four years have made me rethink everything. Also, TPTB seem to plan everything, show it to us in movies, and then it happens in real life very similarly to what was in the movies.

I loved the Loki season one on Disney+!
My husband didn’t like that Loki was a woman in one of the timelines though.
But I thought the whole season was so interesting and fun to think about. We also cancelled our Disney + membership after that, so I haven’t seen season 2 which I think is out now.

As to the OP, I have never read the scriptures that were mentioned, except for the part about Zion and the temple were supposed to be built in Missouri.

I don't think I saw the episode where Loki was a woman. I would not have liked that part. I believe that gender is eternal no matter what timeline we may or may not be on. (I don't think gender changes.)

Yeah, there were many different Lokis from all the different universes. So a least one of them was female. I think one was non-human too, like a dog or something. I think it played into how Loki is a trickster.

[EndTimesBeliever]

Let me share a bit about what led up to being admitted to the hospital. There were several hard trials that I was going through at the time. It is a rather long story, so it will take multiple posts to tell it.

I was a counselor in the Relief Society Presidency, and was over the lessons. I felt to give a lesson about my testimony of the creation and shared some of the evidences that Divine Design was part of the equation. Five or six sisters were so offended by my testimony that they left the room; so of course, I was reprimanded by the Relief Society President and the Bishop and had to make an apology. After that, I had no “authority of position;” I had to get all of my lessons approved beforehand by the Relief Society President and was limited to statements made by current prophets and apostles. She was much more willing to have the Relief Society Secretary give comments that taught false doctrine than to chance me saying something offensive like “God created the Earth” ever again. It took me four months of begging and pleading to convince the Bishop to release me from that calling.

I was also going through a hard time in my marriage and was really questioning if it was worth continuing to work at it. My husband doesn’t believe in saying sorry, but one night he did say “Sorry.” and it felt genuine. My first reaction was to want to push back and reject the apology, but I made a conscious decision to accept the apology and immediately felt a “healing” come over me that made me want to try and salvage things. Although a lot of the anger was gone at that moment, I knew that I needed help to work through a few things, so I decided to council with the Bishop about saving our marriage.

Having two reasons to meet with the Bishop, I decided to make it three reasons and confess all past sins as well. I knew that I didn’t need to do this because I already had done so, but for years Satan had played games with my mind and would say things like “You didn’t say enough.” “Are you sure you mentioned ______.” etc. So, I decided to take that ability from him by being certain that I confessed anything and everything that could even remotely be construed to be in the realm of needing to be confessed to a Bishop. (I did a good portion of this in writing so I could better focus my thoughts, have a record of what I had shared, and better use our time together.) One thing that the Bishop counseled me to do was to work through the Addiction Recovery Program, which I did.

While I was meeting with the Bishop, I got his approval for a lesson I wanted to give, so that I didn’t have to get permission from the RS President. The lesson was based off of the book “Satan’s War on Free Agency” by Greg Wright and based off of “Agency: Essential to the Plan of Life” By Elder Robert D. Hales, October 2010 conference. I had the Bishop help me with the object lesson at the beginning of my lesson. I had him help so everyone in the room would know that this was a “Bishop approved lesson” and for moral support as this lesson was the first time I publicly shared that I had been sexually abused as a child. (By several different people at different times, thankfully none to intercourse.)

This is part of what I said in my lesson on May 1, 2016:

”Truly understanding agency is a quest of a lifetime. For today, I will take the next few minutes to share a personal experience from my own life with you. Then I am going to relate what I have learned about choice, freedom, and agency from this experience and the choice I made regarding it. Please understand that this is simply my own personal experience, my own personal interpretation, and my own personal testimony. You are under no obligation to agree with my opinion or my conclusions. However, I do ask you to be aware of the fact that getting through the last few moments will be listed among the hardest things I have done in my life. And I appeal to you to treat these next few minutes with respect, as I am about to publicly face my deepest, darkest fear. And then I am going to attempt to articulate the incalculable heartache and sorrow that I have suffered because of my refusal to face this fear earlier in my life. I urge you to listen with an open heart, to learn from my mistake, and to apply what you hear to your own life and your own particular set of circumstances in order that you may save yourselves from unneeded suffering.

So, I am not going to share any details with you, as that would not be appropriate, but I have determined that it is time for me to take President _________ advice that he has shared in our last two Stake Conferences and stop defining myself by my mortality, challenges, and past. I need to internalize the fact that I have a true eternal identity as a daughter of God. So, I am going to let it be known, that I was sexually abused as a child

So, I don’t know about you, but when I think of any kind of abuse, the words that generally come to my mind would include “force,” “manipulation,” and “no choice.” God tells us that our agency cannot be taken from us, so we probably do have a choice at some level, but when we are being abused, it is common to feel like we have no choice, we are often blinded and cannot see that there are options. This is particularly true when the other person is bigger, stronger, smarter, … than we are. We feel that we have been enrolled in what we could term Force College. And I submit that we absolutely hate being enrolled there. We resent it. We want out!

The person doing the forcing is obviously, in that moment, on Satan’s side of the line and acting for selfish purposes. They are putting their own will above your will and the will of God. Force in this regards is considered to be a tool of Satan, but I propose that it is not the plan that he presented in the pre-earth life. Just think for a moment how immediately and completely repulsed you are at the thought of being forced to do anything. Do you really think that the idea of being forced and really having no choice was so appealing that ⅓ of Heavenly Father’s children were willing to rebel against an all powerful God? I don’t. So, could there have been another way that Satan could destroy our agency; a way that is much more subtle and deceptive; much more appealing?

I submit to you that there is. Eliminating or limiting choice, as in Force College, is only one way to destroy agency. If you recall there are three requirements that need to be met in order to have agency. And, agency can be destroyed by removing any one of them. So, another way to destroy agency is to eliminate or limit consequences. This is a much more appealing proposal, and we could call it the University of Freedom – where we have freedom from consequences (or at least we think we do).

So, in at least this one aspect of my life, I have been enrolled in the University of Freedom plan. I chose to believe that how I dealt with the abuse in my past was up to me, and that the one choice was just as good as the other. I could bury the experience and the feelings deep in my heart and pretend that they were not there, or I could bring them out in the open and deal with them, release them, and move on. It was up to me. It didn’t matter which I chose. Either option was just as good as the other. I should do what felt best and appropriate for me. And, so I did. I took the experience and the guilt that I felt, that it was somehow my fault, and buried it in my heart. And with that act I started to create a wall around my heart. This appeared to work just fine for quite some time. So, I continued to use that approach with most of my trials and heartache.

As with most Young Women, I heard several lessons about chastity and virtue. I specifically recall the one that taught that we wanted to keep ourselves clean and pure, because “Nobody wants a used stick of gum.” I took that phrase to heart and added another layer of impenetrable bricks around my heart. I came to identify myself as a “used stick of gum,” and felt inferior to everyone around me. I came to believe that not even God could love me, and when I prayed to know if He did love me or not, I could not feel the answer in my heart.

As life went on and I experienced more challenges and heartache the wall became stronger and more fortified as I looked for proof that I was unlovable. I also became very resentful because I felt like I was trying to live the Gospel, keep the commandments, follow the prophet, but it just wasn’t working out for me! In reality, I became two quite different people at the exact same time. In my head, I knew that the church was true and I often felt the Spirit guiding me to the truth with logic. I could logic in my head that because the Gospel is true and that God loves all His children that He loved me, but I absolutely could not feel it in my heart. I feared that it was true for everyone but me.

This war between my head and my heart created quite a bit of CONFLICT in my soul! And, as the years passed, it finally became obvious to me that Mark 3:25 is true; “And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.” The conflict was tearing me apart and I believe that it is one of the main causes of my anxiety and depression. I became so depressed, that my most frequent fervent prayer during 2015 was, “Lord, if you are not going to help me, please just let me die.” I was near complete despair and I truly saw no hope for my future.

Somehow, through a series of small miracles that add up to a very great big miracle, I have been able to chip away at this wall around my heart and create a hole big enough for the love of God to penetrate. And now, finally at the age of 46, I can say that I can feel God’s love for me in my heart. I can feel the Atonement working in my life, Christ is willing to take away my sins and my sorrow and my suffering. I know that God wants me to choose to live so that I can return to Him. I can actually feel peace and now know that it is possible to have peace in my heart for more than just one fleeting second at a time (which are separated by miles of time).

I understand now, that there are consequences to every choice that I make, and I have to live with those consequences whether or not I recognize them, and whether or not I want them. I had to suffer the consequences for my choice to suppress my feelings and emotions, even though I first made that choice before I was 8. As, I continued to make that my habit, I lost the ability to see other options and lost my ability to exercise my agency well. Satan had trapped me with a flaxen cord and was binding me with his strong cords.

Because I have now allowed myself to feel the love of God, now is the time that I can act with agency. I know, without a doubt, that suppressing negative emotions causes misery. I know without a doubt that taking my emotions out and evaluating them and expressing them has freed me from the prison that I was bound in; at a minimum the door is now open. I know that God knows that I have learned this lesson and that now I have full knowledge of the choices and their respective consequences. So now, if I choose to revert to my natural tendencies and entrenched behaviors, I know it is me choosing misery and the consequences will be even more severe than before. Waking up to this fact, now allows me to say to myself, “Is this what you really want [EndTimesBeliever]?” and I am finding it much easier to stay in a positive mindset as I continue to consciously choose to feel God’s peace and the love He has for me. I know that the better we understand agency the more readily we will be able to free ourselves from Satan’s traps. I know that the better we and our children understand and live the Gospel the more readily we will be able to exercise our agency appropriately.”

This is some of what I wrote to my sister when I decided to share this lesson with her a few weeks after I gave it:

“Part of the reason that I gave this lesson, besides God telling me to, is that the Bishop shared Isaiah 54:4 with me, several times actually. He appeared to have the view that to “forget the shame of thy youth” meant to forget about it and not talk about it. “It is confessed, move on.” But, I believe that it is the not talking about it that brings shame. I am uncertain of where I am going from here, but when you asked for a copy of my lesson, my heart cried, “I need my sister!” So, I shared it with you. I love you. Thank you for your listening ear and guidance as I continue on the path of healing.

I spent Feb and March doing nothing but talking to the Bishop, reading my scriptures, taking hour long showers, three hour long baths, pondering in the sun, going on walks, and playing the piano. (With a few necessities like helping on [my daughter’s] school, but not as well as should have been done, doing my own school, and paying bills.) I literally could not even open my mail, it was too overwhelming. One day, I determined I would open the mail that had been sitting there for a week or so (for some reason [my husband] hadn’t done that pile) and I called [my husband] in to help me open the mail. I picked it up and started to cry, because, even with his help, I just couldn’t do it. So, we went for a walk instead. I think I opened it about 1 week later, with his help. I can open the mail most days now, so I think that I am on the mend. I even have made a few real meals this month. So, I am hopeful.”

[Juliet]

There is definitely manipulation on any level where it is possible. I wonder if time management is an aspect of the priesthood. I think Kolob has something to do with how time is governed on earth.

[creator]

Thanks for sharing. I am glad you were able to find healing and the love of God despite what you went through.

..I felt to give a lesson about my testimony of the creation and shared some of the evidences that Divine Design was part of the equation. Five or six sisters were so offended by my testimony that they left the room...

How is the idea of creation by divine design offensive to anyone that believes in God? I could understand having different opinions on the specifics, but belief in God seems to imply belief in God as a divine creator.

[Telavian]

How is the idea of creation by divine design offensive to anyone that believes in God? I could understand having different opinions on the specifics, but belief in God seems to imply belief in God as a divine creator.

Maybe how intelligent design implies a form of evolution vs the idea of taking plants and animals from another planet. I don't know if God seeds every planet or each planet grows its own planets and animals independently. I don't think it really matters but is interesting to think about.