Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

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Pahoran
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Pahoran »

Ebenezer wrote: December 8th, 2023, 7:59 pm Elder Ballard's son goes to Saudi Arabia frequently for his job. I wonder if there's a connection there.
Is there a connection between Utah and Saudi Arabia being where religion is highly influential and where they are both at the forefront of smart cities development? Will the church take a more active role in smart cities and collaborate with other world leaders like in Saudi Arabia? When you think of Saudi Arabia I feel like they use Islam as a method of controlling the population. Does this happen in Utah too?

Pahoran
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Pahoran »

Just saw that someone made the same connection I just made. Excuse the redundancy.

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Telavian
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Telavian »

Robin Hood wrote: December 9th, 2023, 1:41 am While I agree with you, the wording of the D&C isn't clear on this. It doesn't say common consent is required before the ordination, only that it is required. You and I, and most people, would interpret it to mean a vote is required before the ordination, but if you're so inclined you could also argue that as long as it takes place it's OK.
Clearly the leadership interpret it loosely.
I can see both sides. If a vote is taken after and the people reject the apostle, in this case, what does that mean and how would that work?

Scooter
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Scooter »

Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:37 am I stand to be corrected, but I can't remember this happening before. The new apostle is revealed at General Conference.
Elder Maxwell and Elder Holland were both called to be Apostles outside of conferences. Both of them were ordained in the summer.

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ithink
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by ithink »

Severed Lips wrote: December 8th, 2023, 1:01 pm
Telavian wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:02 am
CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am I find it interesting that they ordained him before he was sustained by common consent by the members of the church.
The leaders don't care about our opinions. They make a decision and then we must "sustain" it.
Honestly though y’all wouldn’t sustain anyone they choose so why do you care?

The arrogance though to assume the Lord and the President of the Church needs your opinion about the calling of an apostle…that’s next level.
The entire thing is about consent.
And by thing, I mean everything.
Every single thing God does, is by consent.
You'll find that out eventually as you apparently haven't at this point.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Hogmeister »

tmac wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:12 am As we all know, Common Consent is long, long gone.

They are not going to call anyone who hasn’t amply demonstrated that they are thoroughly church-broke.

The reason I asked about his occupational background is because actions speak louder than words. GG comes across as a nice, mild-mannered guy too. But it sounds like they are probably both galloping globalists who may be very useful tools in the socialistic global agenda.
First talk I heard from him in GC rubbed me the wrong way. Aligned with our globalists. Wanted even more dilution of Christianity in Europe - bring in more muslims (Coudenhove Kalergi plan).

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Hogmeister »

SimpleSaint wrote: December 8th, 2023, 7:30 pm Here is a quote from a 2020 talk he gave to give you an idea on some of his thoughts...

"If we use politics as an example, one thing you could do if you acknowledge that you're out near one pole or another to move inwards from those poles, is read the point of view of the other people. If you have been, for instance, reading a particular publication or strands of information delivered to you through social media or through other sources, deliberately go and read the point of view that some of your friends are being delivered through their own media channels or publications. The value of doing this is greater now than it ever has been before because as we're learning, one of the ways that our media gets delivered to us is that it constantly hones in on the things that we're already looking at. So, it gives us more and more, an ever-greater diet of the thoughts and ideologies that we already adhere to. When it would do us very well to turn, read, and listen to the ideologies, thoughts, and concepts of those we currently may disagree with. If we do that with an open heart, we'll be blessed to understand the people we disagree with and become a force for peace. And goodness knows, we need greater peace in our public and private life."
So basically don't be ETB ;)

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Hogmeister
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Hogmeister »

GeeR wrote: December 8th, 2023, 1:20 pm Kearon is a sneeky Globalist through and through. I have some information on him from his past history and I'll look it up but you can count on him as a true Globalist.
This is my impression also. I hope I am wrong though.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Robin Hood »

Scooter wrote: December 9th, 2023, 8:42 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:37 am I stand to be corrected, but I can't remember this happening before. The new apostle is revealed at General Conference.
Elder Maxwell and Elder Holland were both called to be Apostles outside of conferences. Both of them were ordained in the summer.
Thanks for that.
It seems a distinction is made between ordination as an apostle, and being sustained as a member of the Quorum. It appears the latter is always done at a GC.
This begs a question regarding Elder Kearon's current status; is he currently an ordained apostle operating outside of the Quorum as has occured in the past? It does seem to be a little odd.

I suspect the reason they didn't wait is because Elder Kearon is Pres. Nelson's pick, and he is perhaps concerned that he won't make it to April.
If Nelson dies before April, the next GC will be concerned with the solemn assembly and ascension of Pres. Oaks, and the vacancy in the Twelve would have to wait.
Last edited by Robin Hood on December 9th, 2023, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Robin Hood »

SimpleSaint wrote: December 8th, 2023, 7:30 pm Here is a quote from a 2020 talk he gave to give you an idea on some of his thoughts...

"If we use politics as an example, one thing you could do if you acknowledge that you're out near one pole or another to move inwards from those poles, is read the point of view of the other people. If you have been, for instance, reading a particular publication or strands of information delivered to you through social media or through other sources, deliberately go and read the point of view that some of your friends are being delivered through their own media channels or publications. The value of doing this is greater now than it ever has been before because as we're learning, one of the ways that our media gets delivered to us is that it constantly hones in on the things that we're already looking at. So, it gives us more and more, an ever-greater diet of the thoughts and ideologies that we already adhere to. When it would do us very well to turn, read, and listen to the ideologies, thoughts, and concepts of those we currently may disagree with. If we do that with an open heart, we'll be blessed to understand the people we disagree with and become a force for peace. And goodness knows, we need greater peace in our public and private life."
I don't see much wrong with that, so long as it doesn't apply to moral issues. I don't need to read pro-abortion media.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:54 am
Ebenezer wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am
tmac wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:49 am What is his occupational background?
This is vague, but from one of the press releases. "He has lived and worked in the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and the United States in various industries, including health care, food, transport, and automotive, and ran his own communications consultancy."
AKA he's rich. Lol
And well-connected.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: December 8th, 2023, 1:29 pm You know they hired him solely for his accent, right...?
;)
He doesn't have one.
You guys have the accent.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:32 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:27 am
CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am I find it interesting that they ordained him before he was sustained by common consent by the members of the church.
Apart from calling it correctly (been predicting his ascension to the Twelve for years), my first thought was that this was out of order.
My son was recently ordained to the office of Elder. He had to be sustained by the members of the ward before that could happen. There is no way they would have gone out of order.
Definitely a rules for thee, not for me moment in the church that is so blatantly obvious.
Well….They have to non-verbally assert their institutional authority somehow….

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Another multimillionaire.

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BringerOfJoy
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by BringerOfJoy »

Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:37 am I stand to be corrected, but I can't remember this happening before. The new apostle is revealed at General Conference.
I posted this link a short time ago when this subject came up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm1SAYQwzcA

Nelson was ordained in January very promptly after Monson's death, and of course wasn't sustained until April. I assume that the newest apostle that replaced Nelson in the 12 when he arose to take the chief seat was also ordained about that time, but I don't remember. But it appears to be the new normal.

Back in about 2013, we were told by a management level church employee who answered to the Presiding Bishop that if you have gone through the temple you don't really have a choice about these things. (We were serving at the time in an assignment WE did not accept, and in fact had said no to).
He told a most interesting story about sitting on the stand of a stake conference: A brother was being called to a Stake presidency, but the junior visiting G.A. had neglected to call him in and ask him if he would serve before the conference. The senior visiting G.A. just said something to the effect of: "Go ahead and announce his name from the pulpit. He has been to the temple and consecrated it all to the church, so he doesn't really have a choice."

That ALSO seems to be the new normal. That whole attitude seems to be permeating the institution right now. "Free agency," my foot!
Last edited by BringerOfJoy on December 10th, 2023, 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

endlessQuestions
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

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CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am I find it interesting that they ordained him before he was sustained by common consent by the members of the church.
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BringerOfJoy
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by BringerOfJoy »

endlessQuestions wrote: December 9th, 2023, 5:01 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am I find it interesting that they ordained him before he was sustained by common consent by the members of the church.
Scriptures? We don't need no stinkin' scriptures! Apparently.

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endlessQuestions wrote: December 9th, 2023, 5:01 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am I find it interesting that they ordained him before he was sustained by common consent by the members of the church.
A Clear Violation of what was written.❗️

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Arm Chair Quarterback
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Arm Chair Quarterback »

ransomme wrote: December 8th, 2023, 3:36 pm
Severed Lips wrote: December 8th, 2023, 1:01 pm
Telavian wrote: December 8th, 2023, 11:02 am

The leaders don't care about our opinions. They make a decision and then we must "sustain" it.
Honestly though y’all wouldn’t sustain anyone they choose so why do you care?

The arrogance though to assume the Lord and the President of the Church needs your opinion about the calling of an apostle…that’s next level.
Well, it was a principle revealed by the Lord, if that still counts for something these days.
Revealed by the lord or by Joseph smith? There’s a difference.

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TheDuke
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by TheDuke »

Pahoran wrote: December 9th, 2023, 7:20 am
Ebenezer wrote: December 8th, 2023, 7:59 pm Elder Ballard's son goes to Saudi Arabia frequently for his job. I wonder if there's a connection there.
Is there a connection between Utah and Saudi Arabia being where religion is highly influential and where they are both at the forefront of smart cities development? Will the church take a more active role in smart cities and collaborate with other world leaders like in Saudi Arabia? When you think of Saudi Arabia I feel like they use Islam as a method of controlling the population. Does this happen in Utah too?
I don't feel there is any true religious belief in Saudi or such nations in the middle east. sure, they are Muslim and fight each other all the time. but, I don't consider what those leaders like Bin Salmon and others believe as true religion, more national zeal and excuse to liberate everything from all those beneath them, like the did with Kashogie. And BTW everyone is beneath them because they are royalty.

On another point, that I perhaps should not share. but last night I woke up in a night mare and screamed out loud, startled my wife. I was dreaming I was some where, almost felt like in the back seat of a car. I had a pen and paper. I was being forced to decide if I believed or accepted something. I wasn't sure what. I felt a lot of pressure. The dream was very vivid from an emotional perspective. I was really being pushed. I was shown a list of other names of people professing acceptance. I didn't really know what the names meant. It was like a secret ballot. but then someone came by the window and was watching me. I was infuriated that he would put himself in my personal space. I reached out the window in fury, like a punch, the window must have been open as I didn't break any glass. I was so extremely pressured and upset that I sat up and screamed in bed with a deep growl and had thrust my hand way up into the air.

So, could have been my imagination. But, after I started thinking that I didn't even know what I was being pressured to accept. Felt like the church was true or something or the leaders? I felt so much weight on my decision but I didn't feel pushed into any one answer. I remember thinking I cannot answer the question as the question is too vague and I have limited information. Then I got thinking about Kearon being called and felt it was to sustain him and I couldn't do it. I got bad feelings. I don't wish to make ill comments of someone I don't know. I did post that I find anyone dealing for 40 years with Saudi's as walking the line of integrity, every single day. But my feelings were bad. I guess I will just wait and see. Likely just a night mare.

Refraction75
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Refraction75 »

SimpleSaint wrote: December 8th, 2023, 7:30 pm Here is a quote from a 2020 talk he gave to give you an idea on some of his thoughts...

"If we use politics as an example, one thing you could do if you acknowledge that you're out near one pole or another to move inwards from those poles, is read the point of view of the other people. If you have been, for instance, reading a particular publication or strands of information delivered to you through social media or through other sources, deliberately go and read the point of view that some of your friends are being delivered through their own media channels or publications. The value of doing this is greater now than it ever has been before because as we're learning, one of the ways that our media gets delivered to us is that it constantly hones in on the things that we're already looking at. So, it gives us more and more, an ever-greater diet of the thoughts and ideologies that we already adhere to. When it would do us very well to turn, read, and listen to the ideologies, thoughts, and concepts of those we currently may disagree with. If we do that with an open heart, we'll be blessed to understand the people we disagree with and become a force for peace. And goodness knows, we need greater peace in our public and private life."
Ok cool. So he is ok with us reading any anti-mormon stuff! Just to get the other perspective....I would assume truth in divisive thought will always prevail.

Refraction75
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Refraction75 »

TheDuke wrote: December 8th, 2023, 8:52 pm I will wait to judge. I must admit that I feel it is necessary to sell your soul to work in Saudi. I went once (not to Saudi but to Dubai) and worked for/with them a while. I found it nearly to my moral limits to work there as the double standard of the leaders there makes Nancy seem like a humble America mother, IMO. But to do it for many years and have your father do the same would take some real grit to remain humble that is for sure.
What did you do there in Dubai?

Refraction75
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Refraction75 »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: December 9th, 2023, 3:34 pm Another multimillionaire.
God doesn't call the humble followers...only the wealthy ones. Prosperity Gospel.

Because you know Christ said wide is the gate for the rich to enter into the Kingdom of God and narrow is the gate like an eye of the needle is for the poor to enter into the Kingdom of God.

spiritMan
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by spiritMan »

First words from him regarding it.

Atrasado
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Re: Elder Patrick Kearon called to the Quorum of the 12.

Post by Atrasado »

The one thing about Elder Kearon is that he and his wife Jennifer ran a PR consultancy for years. PR is the art of subterfuge and deception. It's getting people to hold opinions that are not necessarily grounded in fact. Hinckley was a master at that. Boy, is that going to be a valuable skill to have back in the Q15.

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