Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

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A Disciple
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Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by A Disciple »

Effective teaching begins with helping students learn the five "W"s of the topic: Who, What, Where, When and Why. As it concerns the scriptures the LDS church has historically been very good at teaching the five W"s. A good example is the Seminary Manual.

Here is the Seminary Manual chapter about the Epistles of John: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

In this chapter as in all chapters of the Seminary manual, the writers explicitly address the Who, What, Where, Why and When. The writing is fluid - easy to read and understand - and informs the reader of important facts and truths.

Contrast this writing with that found in Come Follow Me. Here is the lesson on the Epistles of John and Jude: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 9?lang=eng

Come Follow Me is all about the Why. It tells you the Why - at least the Why the writers care about - and some Whats but it ignores the Who, When, and Where and this makes the context nebulous and confusing. The writing is disconnected and jumps from one topic to another. There is no "flow".

That Come Follow Me is an inferior product is demonstrated by comparing it to other Bible lessons. Here is a Christian Ministry lesson on the Epistles of John: https://www.insight.org/resources/bible ... first-john

As with the Seminary Manual, this lesson begins by teaching the Who, Where and When, explains the Why and then presents What John taught. The writing is fluid - easy to read and understand - and helps the student become more knowledgeable about the topic - the Epistles of John.

As a lesson manual, Come Follow Me is an incredibly disappointing product. Knowing that the church already has in its possession quality lessons manuals I am baffled why Come Follow Me is so inferior. Appreciate that with the shift towards online publishing, there is no excuse that the Seminary lessons would be too expensive to print for everyone. There is no printing!

So I wonder. Who approved Come Follow Me? Could they not see it is a very low quality lesson manual? Why were quality lessons from previously published manuals not used? Is it an intentional goal to make church members less knowledgeable about the scriptures?

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marc
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by marc »

Lazy learners produce lazy teachers. Or maybe it's the other way around? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

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Fred
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Fred »

According to statistics, todays graduates are lucky if they can read and write at all.

Education costs have doubled, tripled, quadrupled. Results have not. Perhaps if every teacher who had less than 90% test at grade level at the end of the year were automatically fired and permanently banned from ever teaching again, we would have better results.

The church probably paid considerably more for the trash manuals than the good ones.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by CuriousThinker »

I suppose a reason could be that the Seminary and Institute manuals are already available on Gospel Library and this is the milk given to everyone and the meat is there if people want it in other manuals. It definitely is a fast food way of doing family and individual study if that's all people choose to do. We haven't used the manual in a couple years.

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Lineman1012
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Lineman1012 »

The problem with the “come follow me” manuals/lessons is the same problem with all church manuals and lessons. The problem is the correlation of all church teaching materials and it started in 1973 with the creation of the correlation committee.

Instead of allowing teachers to search out study, ponder, and pray about a specific topic, a LDS lesson manual outlines and in some cases does a Word for Word on what you’re supposed to teach. Teachers do not have to study, ponder, and pray and therefore the spirit does not attend the class in most cases and everyone goes away hungry and malnourished.

I taught the priest quorum with 18 to 20 priest in it at any given point. I used the manual and taught like an any good TBM would teach. Out of 20 priests, 4 went on missions and 2 of the 20 are still active to this day.(An additional 1 got his call but the night before he was going to go into the mission home is girlfriend and her dad knocked on his door to tell him he was going to be a daddy. Needless to say he didn’t go into the mission field.)

I have since thrown the “manual” away, make up my own lessons by only using the scriptures and spend time inviting the Spirit to teach the class. Right now we are having some killer “gospel principles” lessons from the Spirit.

Correlation robbed the LDS church of the spirit that comes by a teacher having to study and ponder and pray for help. The Spirit only shows up when he knows you care enough to put in the effort to get him on board. Correlation is the problem and “come follow me” is the current result of the problem.

It doesn’t get any better in EQ/RS when all we do is read conference talks (teachings of men) every other Sunday. Sure it’s different people taking one of many slips of paper given out at the beginning of class. (I attended a GD class where the teacher passed out 19 slips. I never went back to that class.) Members are not feeling the spirit in the class and I think it is one of the reasons so many people are leaving the church. No Spirit in the classrooms because the manuals spoon-feed people all the who, what, where, when and how’s and doesn’t account for; “is that the message Father wants taught in this class this week?”

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

A Disciple wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 7:01 pm
So I wonder. Who approved Come Follow Me? Could they not see it is a very low quality lesson manual? Why were quality lessons from previously published manuals not used? Is it an intentional goal to make church members less knowledgeable about the scriptures?
This is deliberate and has been going on since HJ Grant became church president. Once the leaders and pioneers who were personally taught by Joseph Smith died off, the doctrines began to be changed. This is evident when you study all of the magazines of the church from the beginning. I have every magazine ever published by the church since its inception that is available on PDF (more than 9200 magazines). On several different subjects, I have gone through all of it several times and I noticed a pattern of changes instituted under Grant's presidency that resulted in the watering-down of the key doctrines of faith, repentance, and miracles to the point where miracles are almost impossible. What is taught for faith and repentance cannot save. What is taught for "discernment" bears little resemblance to what Joseph taught.

Every president since Grant wanted to put his own stamp on the doctrines of the church and this is no more evident than by what RM Nelson has done than when he eliminated the manuals of the Teachings of the Presidents and instituted the regurgitating of the watered-down conference talks.

All of this is deliberate with the "follow the prophet" fallacy. It creates lazy learners who believe that nothing more is required.

A Disciple
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by A Disciple »

This is evident when you study all of the magazines of the church from the beginning.

There was a time I looked forward to reading the Ensign / Liahona. That was more than a decade ago. If the goal of correlation was to make the "Restoration" bland and boring that mission was accomplished.

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Chip
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Chip »

Nowadays, it's all about impressing members into thinking that the LDS church is vital to their spiritual welfare and the leaders control the gates to God. Covenant Path, Temple, Tithing, and Trust Only Us.

If the scriptures must be read in church, they must be presented in such a way that THIS is the take-away message.

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Mindfields
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Mindfields »

Lineman1012 wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 8:17 pm The problem with the “come follow me” manuals/lessons is the same problem with all church manuals and lessons. The problem is the correlation of all church teaching materials and it started in 1973 with the creation of the correlation committee.

Instead of allowing teachers to search out study, ponder, and pray about a specific topic, a LDS lesson manual outlines and in some cases does a Word for Word on what you’re supposed to teach. Teachers do not have to study, ponder, and pray and therefore the spirit does not attend the class in most cases and everyone goes away hungry and malnourished.

I taught the priest quorum with 18 to 20 priest in it at any given point. I used the manual and taught like an any good TBM would teach. Out of 20 priests, 4 went on missions and 2 of the 20 are still active to this day.(An additional 1 got his call but the night before he was going to go into the mission home is girlfriend and her dad knocked on his door to tell him he was going to be a daddy. Needless to say he didn’t go into the mission field.)

I have since thrown the “manual” away, make up my own lessons by only using the scriptures and spend time inviting the Spirit to teach the class. Right now we are having some killer “gospel principles” lessons from the Spirit.

Correlation robbed the LDS church of the spirit that comes by a teacher having to study and ponder and pray for help. The Spirit only shows up when he knows you care enough to put in the effort to get him on board. Correlation is the problem and “come follow me” is the current result of the problem.

It doesn’t get any better in EQ/RS when all we do is read conference talks (teachings of men) every other Sunday. Sure it’s different people taking one of many slips of paper given out at the beginning of class. (I attended a GD class where the teacher passed out 19 slips. I never went back to that class.) Members are not feeling the spirit in the class and I think it is one of the reasons so many people are leaving the church. No Spirit in the classrooms because the manuals spoon-feed people all the who, what, where, when and how’s and doesn’t account for; “is that the message Father wants taught in this class this week?”
They realized they couldn't allow teachers to teach from the vast Mormon depository of "knowledge". Way to many contradictions and a lot of nonsense.
In a perfect world with real prophets who actually spoke the words of God and knew when to keep their opinions to themselves it could've worked.

Would've certainly saved a lot of effort and tons of paper. :)

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Mindfields wrote: December 3rd, 2023, 7:25 am
Lineman1012 wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 8:17 pm The problem with the “come follow me” manuals/lessons is the same problem with all church manuals and lessons. The problem is the correlation of all church teaching materials and it started in 1973 with the creation of the correlation committee.

Instead of allowing teachers to search out study, ponder, and pray about a specific topic, a LDS lesson manual outlines and in some cases does a Word for Word on what you’re supposed to teach. Teachers do not have to study, ponder, and pray and therefore the spirit does not attend the class in most cases and everyone goes away hungry and malnourished.

I taught the priest quorum with 18 to 20 priest in it at any given point. I used the manual and taught like an any good TBM would teach. Out of 20 priests, 4 went on missions and 2 of the 20 are still active to this day.(An additional 1 got his call but the night before he was going to go into the mission home is girlfriend and her dad knocked on his door to tell him he was going to be a daddy. Needless to say he didn’t go into the mission field.)

I have since thrown the “manual” away, make up my own lessons by only using the scriptures and spend time inviting the Spirit to teach the class. Right now we are having some killer “gospel principles” lessons from the Spirit.

Correlation robbed the LDS church of the spirit that comes by a teacher having to study and ponder and pray for help. The Spirit only shows up when he knows you care enough to put in the effort to get him on board. Correlation is the problem and “come follow me” is the current result of the problem.

It doesn’t get any better in EQ/RS when all we do is read conference talks (teachings of men) every other Sunday. Sure it’s different people taking one of many slips of paper given out at the beginning of class. (I attended a GD class where the teacher passed out 19 slips. I never went back to that class.) Members are not feeling the spirit in the class and I think it is one of the reasons so many people are leaving the church. No Spirit in the classrooms because the manuals spoon-feed people all the who, what, where, when and how’s and doesn’t account for; “is that the message Father wants taught in this class this week?”
They realized they couldn't allow teachers to teach from the vast Mormon depository of "knowledge". Way to many contradictions and a lot of nonsense.
In a perfect world with real prophets who actually spoke the words of God and knew when to keep their opinions to themselves it could've worked.

Would've certainly saved a lot of effort and tons of paper. :)
CFM like a mormon "suppository" of "knowledge"-- I suppose

Arm Chair Quarterback
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by Arm Chair Quarterback »

A Disciple wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 7:01 pm Effective teaching begins with helping students learn the five "W"s of the topic: Who, What, Where, When and Why. As it concerns the scriptures the LDS church has historically been very good at teaching the five W"s. A good example is the Seminary Manual.

Here is the Seminary Manual chapter about the Epistles of John: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

In this chapter as in all chapters of the Seminary manual, the writers explicitly address the Who, What, Where, Why and When. The writing is fluid - easy to read and understand - and informs the reader of important facts and truths.

Contrast this writing with that found in Come Follow Me. Here is the lesson on the Epistles of John and Jude: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 9?lang=eng

Come Follow Me is all about the Why. It tells you the Why - at least the Why the writers care about - and some Whats but it ignores the Who, When, and Where and this makes the context nebulous and confusing. The writing is disconnected and jumps from one topic to another. There is no "flow".

That Come Follow Me is an inferior product is demonstrated by comparing it to other Bible lessons. Here is a Christian Ministry lesson on the Epistles of John: https://www.insight.org/resources/bible ... first-john

As with the Seminary Manual, this lesson begins by teaching the Who, Where and When, explains the Why and then presents What John taught. The writing is fluid - easy to read and understand - and helps the student become more knowledgeable about the topic - the Epistles of John.

As a lesson manual, Come Follow Me is an incredibly disappointing product. Knowing that the church already has in its possession quality lessons manuals I am baffled why Come Follow Me is so inferior. Appreciate that with the shift towards online publishing, there is no excuse that the Seminary lessons would be too expensive to print for everyone. There is no printing!

So I wonder. Who approved Come Follow Me? Could they not see it is a very low quality lesson manual? Why were quality lessons from previously published manuals not used? Is it an intentional goal to make church members less knowledgeable about the scriptures?
It’s not awful if you understand the goal of those who write the manual. They don’t want to engage the critical thinking mind with the who what where when and why. They want to engage the emotions with a focus on their version of why.

tribrac
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by tribrac »

It seems to me the church curriculum and plans are deliberate to empower the church managerial hierarchy .

Kids learn their neighborhood adults know very little, but the church employee seminary teacher is someone who knows and who they can trust.

Ward Youth camp with a $500 budget is meh....but the corporate FSY is a rocking party.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

tribrac wrote: December 3rd, 2023, 11:50 am It seems to me the church curriculum and plans are deliberate to empower the church managerial hierarchy .

Kids learn their neighborhood adults know very little, but the church employee seminary teacher is someone who knows and who they can trust.

Ward Youth camp with a $500 budget is meh....but the corporate FSY is a rocking party.
The difference is that the corporate church directly controls the seminary or institute teacher’s income and didactic training. But they can only control the bishop’s, EQ pres’s, or gospel doctrine teacher’s so much.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by MikeMaillet »

I have spent many hours teaching in Sunday School, Priesthood, Primary... I always used the lesson material as merely a title for the topic to be discussed for that Sunday. The dudes in SLC have no way of knowing the individuals in your classes, where you live and what unique challenges your students may face. Teaching has not much to do with the study material; a good teacher will have this down cold. Teaching is about finding ways to connect with your students so that they can see the world in a different way, a way different than what Babylon teaches.

I've been a Bishop, an EQ President, a member of the Stake HC, a clerk, an executive secretary......... but the calling I enjoyed the most was the one of teacher.

Mike

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SJR3t2
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by SJR3t2 »

When you don't know the truth in the scriptures your are more easily deceived. And the LDS / Brighamite church is not who they claim to be. https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/lds/

JohnnyL
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by JohnnyL »

Fred wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 7:25 pm According to statistics, todays graduates are lucky if they can read and write at all.

Education costs have doubled, tripled, quadrupled. Results have not. Perhaps if every teacher who had less than 90% test at grade level at the end of the year were automatically fired and permanently banned from ever teaching again, we would have better results.

The church probably paid considerably more for the trash manuals than the good ones.
If only it were just the teachers! State Education, school board, principal, core curriculum, curriculum program, whole language reading, etc. make sure children can't perform like before. In addition, teachers have an incredible amount of extras like we never had back in the day. And the most important thing--parents. Parents fail big time when it comes to things like homework and behavior.

JohnnyL
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by JohnnyL »

CuriousThinker wrote: December 2nd, 2023, 7:33 pm I suppose a reason could be that the Seminary and Institute manuals are already available on Gospel Library and this is the milk given to everyone and the meat is there if people want it in other manuals. It definitely is a fast food way of doing family and individual study if that's all people choose to do. We haven't used the manual in a couple years.
Yes--that!!

JohnnyL
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by JohnnyL »

For most teachers in Utah, not very helpful. For many teachers in the USA, not very helpful. For some teachers all over the world, very helpful. It's written for the lowest of teachers, and the others can add to it.

GladiusManus
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Re: Why is the Come Follow Me curriculum so bad?

Post by GladiusManus »

Anyone with a keen mind and some background in ancient philosophy understands that the masses, who cling to tradition, rarely, if ever, desire to hear anything new or additional doctrines connected with those of a fundamental level. Those who attempt to elevate the conversation to a higher spiritual plain will face objections and perhaps even a hostile backlash for their efforts. And this gives the correlation committee the leverage they need to gradually diminish the teaching offered within Church curriculum; that is, all they need to do is maintain what the people want to hear while slowly degrading the level of insight offered in manuals. The people set their own trap that their nefarious leaders are all too eager to lead them into.

If you truly want to learn the Gospel, toss the manuals in the garbage and do the work necessary to cultivate your mind by immersing yourself in the scriptures.

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