Why Do So Many Cults Practice Polygamy?

[Reluctant Watchman]

When someone makes up their mind about anything the all "evidence" to the contrary will not budge them.

There has been a GREAT DIFFICULTY IN GETTING ANYTHING INTO THE HEADS of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beetle. EVEN THE SAINTS ARE SLOW TO UNDERSTAND. I have TRIED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS TO GET THE MINDS OF THE SAINTS PREPARED TO RECEIVE THE THINGS OF GOD; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will FLY TO PIECES LIKE GLASS AS SOON AS ANYTHING COMES THAT IS CONTRARY TO THEIR TRADITIONS.

Polygamy most definitely went against the saints "false traditions".
To each his/her own, but IMO, most LDS and affiliated, do not even know JS or any of those that truly knew JC.
I also get a kick out of the statements against the "horny" polygamist leaders, (dont get me wrong as I mostly agree) but the ones making these statements I would venture to say have their own "horny" problems.
Mankind is carnal sensual and devilish, that includes you and me.
Why isn't the terrible state of affairs addressed among among our free love, adulterous mindset in our own houses, towns, cities, and nation? It is easy to condemn the polygamist people, and rightly so in many cases as you can see there are many abusers. But good hell, look at our society, from the very top echelons of power in both church, state and nation all the way down to the lowly bum on the street. Adultery, incest, abortion/murder etc, and all that by "monogamists".
All tables are full of putrid rot.
Just the murder of our offspring, by mainly the "monogamist" portion of our society in America, far outweighs what the polygamists are doing, IMHO.
The polygamists, generally speaking, (there most definitely are exceptions) are at least trying to "multiply and replenish the earth" whereas the rest of society are butchering their offspring, and that includes the self righteous "monogamist" religious people.
So tell me, what is worse? I think there is not even an argument.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, “His”story, is just that. A perspective from one or more people. When I study the principle of polygamy for myself, and ask God what the hell happened in the early restoration era, I know that it wasn’t right. And what BY taught was horrendous. His words are on display for all to read. He was “on record, in public, while he was alive.”

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Sorry, not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you.

[Telavian]

Sorry, not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you.

I have gone that rabbit hole with various people, and it never ended positively once.

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, “His”story, is just that. A perspective from one or more people. When I study the principle of polygamy for myself, and ask God what the hell happened in the early restoration era, I know that it wasn’t right. And what BY taught was horrendous. His words are on display for all to read. He was “on record, in public, while he was alive.”

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Sorry, not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you.

I wish I could find one of BY's horrendous quotes. It was in a meeting. It could have been general conference. And he was calling out and making fun of men who could only find one wife, when he had so many. His language was coarse. And his male ego was astronomically on display. It was one of the most awful quote I've read about BY. "Look at me, I'm a real man. I have lots of women." Ugh.

Worst of all, it acted as sort of a mirror reflecting his true heart with regard to polygamy. It was not pretty.

[Telavian]

I wish I could find one of BY's horrendous quotes. It was in a meeting. It could have been general conference. And he was calling out and making fun of men who could only find one wife, when he had so many. His language was coarse. And his male ego was astronomically on display. It was one of the most awful quote I've read about BY. "Look at me, I'm a real man. I have lots of women." Ugh.

Worst of all, it acted as sort of a mirror reflecting his true heart with regard to polygamy. It was not pretty.

It might have been the time he openly mocked Thomas B. Marsh. That was disgusting and the people should have called him out for it.

[Mamabear]

Author Matt Whitney writes:

Interestingly, you see polygamous patterns in cults that range from those that mimic much of Christianity to those that have drifted far from it. Early leaders in the Latter Day Saints practiced it>4 and even venerated it5. The modern horrors of Warren Jeffs’ Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) were headline news only a few years ago. David Koresh and the Branch Davidians (of Waco massacre fame), Jim Jones (of Jonestown massacre fame), and Charles Manson (of, well, Charles Manson fame) were all cult leaders who either practiced polygamy or practiced partner sharing extensively and abusively.

Here's the full article: https://gospel.vision/why-do-so-many-cu ... -polygamy/

Because typically cults consist of perverts.

[ransomme]

When someone makes up their mind about anything the all "evidence" to the contrary will not budge them.

There has been a GREAT DIFFICULTY IN GETTING ANYTHING INTO THE HEADS of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beetle. EVEN THE SAINTS ARE SLOW TO UNDERSTAND. I have TRIED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS TO GET THE MINDS OF THE SAINTS PREPARED TO RECEIVE THE THINGS OF GOD; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will FLY TO PIECES LIKE GLASS AS SOON AS ANYTHING COMES THAT IS CONTRARY TO THEIR TRADITIONS.

Polygamy most definitely went against the saints "false traditions".
To each his/her own, but IMO, most LDS and affiliated, do not even know JS or any of those that truly knew JC.
I also get a kick out of the statements against the "horny" polygamist leaders, (dont get me wrong as I mostly agree) but the ones making these statements I would venture to say have their own "horny" problems.
Mankind is carnal sensual and devilish, that includes you and me.
Why isn't the terrible state of affairs addressed among among our free love, adulterous mindset in our own houses, towns, cities, and nation? It is easy to condemn the polygamist people, and rightly so in many cases as you can see there are many abusers. But good hell, look at our society, from the very top echelons of power in both church, state and nation all the way down to the lowly bum on the street. Adultery, incest, abortion/murder etc, and all that by "monogamists".
All tables are full of putrid rot.
Just the murder of our offspring, by mainly the "monogamist" portion of our society in America, far outweighs what the polygamists are doing, IMHO.
The polygamists, generally speaking, (there most definitely are exceptions) are at least trying to "multiply and replenish the earth" whereas the rest of society are butchering their offspring, and that includes the self righteous "monogamist" religious people.
So tell me, what is worse? I think there is not even an argument.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, “His”story, is just that. A perspective from one or more people. When I study the principle of polygamy for myself, and ask God what the hell happened in the early restoration era, I know that it wasn’t right. And what BY taught was horrendous. His words are on display for all to read. He was “on record, in public, while he was alive.”

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Take your pick, BY was so full of himself and BS.

BY promoting incest:
"I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives... This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters." - BY

BY promoting that he could take everyone else's wives:
"The Second Way in which a wife can be separated from her husband, while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood, I have not revealed, except to a few persons in this Church; and a few have received it from Joseph the prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is... there is no need for a bill of divorcement... To recapitulate." - BY

Rascist and ignorant of scripture BY:
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Some boasting:
“I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

there are so many...

[ransomme]

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Sorry, not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you.

I wish I could find one of BY's horrendous quotes. It was in a meeting. It could have been general conference. And he was calling out and making fun of men who could only find one wife, when he had so many. His language was coarse. And his male ego was astronomically on display. It was one of the most awful quote I've read about BY. "Look at me, I'm a real man. I have lots of women." Ugh.

Worst of all, it acted as sort of a mirror reflecting his true heart with regard to polygamy. It was not pretty.

“In conversing with brother Marsh, I find that he is about the same Thomas that he always was—full of anecdotes and chit-chat. He could hardly converse for ten minutes without telling an anecdote. His voice and style of conversation are familiar to me.

He has told you that he is an old man. Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congre[ga]tion that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men.

Brother Thomas considers himself very aged and infirm, and you can see that he is, brethren and sisters. What is the cause of it? He left the Gospel of salvation. What do you think the difference is between his age and mine? One year and seven months to a day; and he is one year, seven months, and fourteen days older than brother Heber C. Kimball.

"Mormonism" keeps men and women young and handsome; and when they are full of the Spirit of God, there are none of them but what will have a glow upon their countenances; and that is what makes you and me young; for the Spirit of God is with us and within us.

When brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say. He read brother Orson Pratt's work upon that subject, and discovered that the doctrine was beautiful, consistent, and exalting, and that the kingdom could not be perfect without it. Neither can it be perfect without a great many things that the people do not yet understand, though they will come in the own due time of the Lord.” - Journal_of_Discourses#5:210

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

Sorry, not gonna go down the rabbit hole with you.

I wish I could find one of BY's horrendous quotes. It was in a meeting. It could have been general conference. And he was calling out and making fun of men who could only find one wife, when he had so many. His language was coarse. And his male ego was astronomically on display. It was one of the most awful quote I've read about BY. "Look at me, I'm a real man. I have lots of women." Ugh.

Worst of all, it acted as sort of a mirror reflecting his true heart with regard to polygamy. It was not pretty.

“In conversing with brother Marsh, I find that he is about the same Thomas that he always was—full of anecdotes and chit-chat. He could hardly converse for ten minutes without telling an anecdote. His voice and style of conversation are familiar to me.

He has told you that he is an old man. Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congre[ga]tion that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men.

Brother Thomas considers himself very aged and infirm, and you can see that he is, brethren and sisters. What is the cause of it? He left the Gospel of salvation. What do you think the difference is between his age and mine? One year and seven months to a day; and he is one year, seven months, and fourteen days older than brother Heber C. Kimball.

"Mormonism" keeps men and women young and handsome; and when they are full of the Spirit of God, there are none of them but what will have a glow upon their countenances; and that is what makes you and me young; for the Spirit of God is with us and within us.

When brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say. He read brother Orson Pratt's work upon that subject, and discovered that the doctrine was beautiful, consistent, and exalting, and that the kingdom could not be perfect without it. Neither can it be perfect without a great many things that the people do not yet understand, though they will come in the own due time of the Lord.” - Journal_of_Discourses#5:210

That's the one. But to be honest, it's pretty tame compared to the others you quote in the previous post. LOL. The second one on justification for Jospeh Smith's polyandry (he married 12 women in Nauvoo who already had living husbands also living with their wives in Nauvoo). That quote meets the standard of horrendous. LOL. Brigham Young was a piece of work, wasn't he. Oh my. I guess ounce you have a group of people out in the mountain deserts of the frontier without any other recourse than to toe the line, you can pretty much say anything you want to say and get away with it.

I'm ashamed my ancestors weren't smart enough to see through his veneer. Wow. What guy.

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

Looks like that one guy here (is it Luke or someone else) who defends polygamy at every turn no matter what. No matter the polyandry, the matter the denials, no matter the lies, was right after all. Look what Brigham Young said:

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy
Brigham Young (1867). “Journal of Discourses”, p.269

[FrankOne]

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, “His”story, is just that. A perspective from one or more people. When I study the principle of polygamy for myself, and ask God what the hell happened in the early restoration era, I know that it wasn’t right. And what BY taught was horrendous. His words are on display for all to read. He was “on record, in public, while he was alive.”

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Take your pick, BY was so full of himself and BS.

BY promoting incest:
"I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives... This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters." - BY

BY promoting that he could take everyone else's wives:
"The Second Way in which a wife can be separated from her husband, while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood, I have not revealed, except to a few persons in this Church; and a few have received it from Joseph the prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is... there is no need for a bill of divorcement... To recapitulate." - BY

Rascist and ignorant of scripture BY:
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Some boasting:
“I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

there are so many...

yah, he was off his gourd in many ways lol. I still maintain that without his tyrannical leadership, the members would have floundered and been scattered in the wind. They needed him or even demanded a leader like that. They were burning down non-members barns out of vengeance , running amuck. The timing was perfect for him to take the stage.

[FrankOne]

Looks like that one guy here (is it Luke or someone else) who defends polygamy at every turn no matter what. No matter the polyandry, the matter the denials, no matter the lies, was right after all. Look what Brigham Young said:

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy
Brigham Young (1867). “Journal of Discourses”, p.269

As I've posted before, quoting counsel from a misguided leader which disagrees with your point of view doesn't validate your argument. I could quote people about the necessity of marriage (monogamous) to fulfill God's purpose by preachers that were convicted pedophiles. Would that make monogamy evil?

[Peeps]

Wanting to exalt oneself is evil, whether via polygamy or not.

[Bonhoeffer]

Please elaborate on “wasn’t right” and “horrendous”.

Take your pick, BY was so full of himself and BS.

BY promoting incest:
"I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives... This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters." - BY

BY promoting that he could take everyone else's wives:
"The Second Way in which a wife can be separated from her husband, while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood, I have not revealed, except to a few persons in this Church; and a few have received it from Joseph the prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is... there is no need for a bill of divorcement... To recapitulate." - BY

Rascist and ignorant of scripture BY:
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Some boasting:
“I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

there are so many...

yah, he was off his gourd in many ways lol. I still maintain that without his tyrannical leadership, the members would have floundered and been scattered in the wind. They needed him or even demanded a leader like that. They were burning down non-members barns out of vengeance , running amuck. The timing was perfect for him to take the stage.

That’s where I beg to differ. He was not “needed” as a leader but positioned himself at the helm and scared/shamed people into submission. That’s not what leaders do. Maybe it would’ve been better for them to have scattered and the “religion” ended when it did. Has good come out of it? Sure, but the mind games people have to play to stay in and justify believing what we do is detrimental to the soul. Polygamy is evil, plain & simple. It is a perverse practice by evil men to force women into unrighteous submission. Is it always sexual? I don’t personally know but why else would a man get married?

What is interesting to me is how tyrannical regimes use sex as a way to humiliate/torture others into submission. The Japs would tie Chinese women & girls to trees & rape them. The Nazis would do the same. Isis currently does it, they kidnap young girls & force them into marriage. Did LDS leaders “force” YW to marry them? Apologists would argue “no” but JS threatened them with destruction by an Angel with a sword if they resisted so I’d argue that, yes, they were strongly coerced against their will.

Personally, I’m done making excuses anymore. I’ve done it for far too long. The early leaders of the church who practiced polygamy were evil men. If that means I won’t be living in the higher made-up kingdoms with them GOOD! Being forced to marry a perverted old man & spend eternity with him is most certainly Hell!

[FrankOne]

Take your pick, BY was so full of himself and BS.

BY promoting incest:
"I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives... This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters." - BY

BY promoting that he could take everyone else's wives:
"The Second Way in which a wife can be separated from her husband, while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood, I have not revealed, except to a few persons in this Church; and a few have received it from Joseph the prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is... there is no need for a bill of divorcement... To recapitulate." - BY

Rascist and ignorant of scripture BY:
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Some boasting:
“I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

there are so many...

yah, he was off his gourd in many ways lol. I still maintain that without his tyrannical leadership, the members would have floundered and been scattered in the wind. They needed him or even demanded a leader like that. They were burning down non-members barns out of vengeance , running amuck. The timing was perfect for him to take the stage.

That’s where I beg to differ. He was not “needed” as a leader

JS threatened them with destruction by an Angel with a sword if they resisted so I’d argue that, yes, they were strongly coerced against their will.

I am certainly not in approval of what BY did. I would have never followed the man.

Consider Warren Jeffs and his twisted cult. That cult is still intact. Some would say that the followers were coerced to follow him . Were they? I call it choice. I've talked with many "Jeffites" in person , some which have left him and some that have still stayed to this day. As with all organized religions, the members are always threatened with 'going to hell' if they don't stay in their current church. The LDS church is no different! It has been and always will be the same in that regard. The comical world of men.

It's all Choice.

When I said that they needed a leader:

Keep in mind that many did not follow BY.
Those that did follow him were not coerced, they chose him. Why? because they needed such a leader, not because he was good or right, but because they wanted him.
They got what they wanted.

It is a very difficult thing to accept responsibility for personal choices instead of blaming others when the mistake is discovered.

[ransomme]

Looks like that one guy here (is it Luke or someone else) who defends polygamy at every turn no matter what. No matter the polyandry, the matter the denials, no matter the lies, was right after all. Look what Brigham Young said:

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy
Brigham Young (1867). “Journal of Discourses”, p.269

There are many who defend polygamy here that include Luke, Duke, Bronco, Cyclops, and others. It is something that TBMs, Brighamites, fundamentalists, and others support, so there are plenty here. And I use those terms loosely, and not as a pejorative, but to help sum a basic platform of beliefs.

[Bonhoeffer]

yah, he was off his gourd in many ways lol. I still maintain that without his tyrannical leadership, the members would have floundered and been scattered in the wind. They needed him or even demanded a leader like that. They were burning down non-members barns out of vengeance , running amuck. The timing was perfect for him to take the stage.

That’s where I beg to differ. He was not “needed” as a leader

JS threatened them with destruction by an Angel with a sword if they resisted so I’d argue that, yes, they were strongly coerced against their will.

I am certainly not in approval of what BY did. I would have never followed the man.

Consider Warren Jeffs and his twisted cult. That cult is still intact. Some would say that the followers were coerced to follow him . Were they? I call it choice. I've talked with many "Jeffites" in person , some which have left him and some that have still stayed to this day. As with all organized religions, the members are always threatened with 'going to hell' if they don't stay in their current church. The LDS church is no different! It has been and always will be the same in that regard. The comical world of men.

It's all Choice.

When I said that they needed a leader:

Keep in mind that many did not follow BY.
Those that did follow him were not coerced, they chose him. Why? because they needed such a leader, not because he was good or right, but because they wanted him.
They got what they wanted.

It is a very difficult thing to accept responsibility for personal choices instead of blaming others when the mistake is discovered.

So you’re saying 12 yo girls have the “choice” to marry an old man? That’s the justification BYU HI Pres gave to students who refused the jab in order to continue their education there. It was their “choice” to leave thus absolving the corrupt authoritarian leadership of coercing others against their will. You are making my earlier point perfectly. Cult leaders are masters at gaslighting people into thinking they have the ability to make choices when the opposite is true.

[FrankOne]

That’s where I beg to differ. He was not “needed” as a leader

JS threatened them with destruction by an Angel with a sword if they resisted so I’d argue that, yes, they were strongly coerced against their will.

I am certainly not in approval of what BY did. I would have never followed the man.

Consider Warren Jeffs and his twisted cult. That cult is still intact. Some would say that the followers were coerced to follow him . Were they? I call it choice. I've talked with many "Jeffites" in person , some which have left him and some that have still stayed to this day. As with all organized religions, the members are always threatened with 'going to hell' if they don't stay in their current church. The LDS church is no different! It has been and always will be the same in that regard. The comical world of men.

It's all Choice.

When I said that they needed a leader:

Keep in mind that many did not follow BY.
Those that did follow him were not coerced, they chose him. Why? because they needed such a leader, not because he was good or right, but because they wanted him.
They got what they wanted.

It is a very difficult thing to accept responsibility for personal choices instead of blaming others when the mistake is discovered.

So you’re saying 12 yo girls have the “choice” to marry an old man? That’s the justification BYU HI Pres gave to students who refused the jab in order to continue their education there. It was their “choice” to leave thus absolving the corrupt authoritarian leadership of coercing others against their will. You are making my earlier point perfectly. Cult leaders are masters at gaslighting people into thinking they have the ability to make choices when the opposite is true.

if you read my post carefully, you will find that I was intentionally addressing the question of the 'why' people followed BY. Trying to relate what I've said to the forcing of 12 yr old girls to marry old men is energy mis-spent.

Students refusing the jab is a choice. A person that uses the excuse that they were coerced to take the jab has no faith and has no vision. What was more important for a student that did take the jab to stay enrolled? It's about what is important to a person and that is exactly how ALL of this world is shaping up at this time.

The BYU HI pres was doing the work of God , while possessed with the Devil. He told them what they were doing, which is making a choice of what is more important. "which do you want? Make your choice"

It's a time of division.

"I choose to take a poison into my body instead of leaving this school because school (the pursuit of the world) is more important"

This is a very precise threshing and sifting that we are going through and difficult to navigate. A person has to ask themselves , "what is more important to me?". ...and there you stand....and there you make your choice, taking full responsibility for it.

Although I do not believe that every person will be subjected to this, but you can be sure that in the future, there will be a time required to comply with certain things, perhaps a vax?, where you will be given a choice to comply or be executed. It's still a choice.

A choice for children of God to give up the body or be a servant to Lucifer himself. It is a choice.

Until then, we will be subjected to many moments of choosing and it will become worse and worse. Those that do not understand that they are immortals within a body will choose to comply with the Devil himself. Fear is their guide.

[Telavian]

Until then, we will be subjected to many moments of choosing and it will become worse and worse. Those that do not understand that they are immortals within a body will choose to comply with the Devil himself. Fear is their guide.

This is very well put. Certainly we all had a choice, however to many it didn't feel that way.
Of course, many chose to trust the world because of their job, or their pension, or their age. It ultimately is a lack of faith and trust in God.

I don't think it is as simple as that, because many also thought they were trusting in God by taking the vaccine.

[onefour1]

Did God ever allow polygamy in days of old? Did God's prophets ever give other wives to men of old? Hmmm I wonder where this idea of plural wives came from? Why did God put up with polygamy and still give revelation and communications to prophets who practiced such abominations?

[OPMissionary]

Notice how many of those leaders were women…

Leaders in general aren't women. There's never been a female POTUS, for example. Not saying polygamy is excusable, but that's just the nature of... well, nature.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Notice how many of those leaders were women…

Leaders in general aren't women. There's never been a female POTUS, for example. Not saying polygamy is excusable, but that's just the nature of... well, nature.

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

[OPMissionary]

Notice how many of those leaders were women…

Leaders in general aren't women. There's never been a female POTUS, for example. Not saying polygamy is excusable, but that's just the nature of... well, nature.

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

I think the natural man applies to women as well, just as the word "mankind" also applies to women. Women have their own problems, even if they're not so obvious as war and violence.

You should know that the line about "his story" is a modern feminist talking point, designed to inflict resentment and strife among the genders. Feminism is just another branch of leftism, and leftism is at it's root essentially satanic, set on deconstructing God's laws and essential traditions.

We hear about men in history more because it is males who have done more "historically" notable things by and large. Women's roles traditionally are that of mothers, wives, and caregivers, like you note, not of statesmen, explorers, inventors, etc. There's no "evil patriarchy" bent on suppressing women's accomplishments. If anything there is a coalition of simps trying to overemphasize the role of masculine women and try to intellectually pit them against men in male domains, and thereby convincing them they are "oppressed," when in fact they are being intentionally propped up to suit a particular progressive agenda, who's ultimate goal is to dissolve the role of gender altogether.

[FrankOne]

Until then, we will be subjected to many moments of choosing and it will become worse and worse. Those that do not understand that they are immortals within a body will choose to comply with the Devil himself. Fear is their guide.

This is very well put. Certainly we all had a choice, however to many it didn't feel that way.
Of course, many chose to trust the world because of their job, or their pension, or their age. It ultimately is a lack of faith and trust in God.

I don't think it is as simple as that, because many also thought they were trusting in God by taking the vaccine.

exactly. It just depends on where you're going in this life. ...by choice. Many choices for many reasons. Each avenue taken by choice just determines who we are. It can be muddled or clear.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

I think the natural man applies to women as well, just as the word "mankind" also applies to women. Women have their own problems, even if they're not so obvious as war and violence.

You should know that the line about "his story" is a modern feminist talking point, designed to inflict resentment and strife among the genders. Feminism is just another branch of leftism, and leftism is at it's root essentially satanic, set on deconstructing God's laws and essential traditions.

We hear about men in history more because it is males who have done more "historically" notable things by and large. Women's roles traditionally are that of mothers, wives, and caregivers, like you note, not of statesmen, explorers, inventors, etc. There's no "evil patriarchy" bent on suppressing women's accomplishments. If anything there is a coalition of simps trying to overemphasize the role of masculine women and try to intellectually pit them against men in male domains, and thereby convincing them they are "oppressed," when in fact they are being intentionally propped up to suit a particular progressive agenda, who's ultimate goal is to dissolve the role of gender altogether.

Yes, that's why I said men have a greater predisposition.

While you can chalk the word "his"story to feminism, men have abused women for centuries. And to suggest that looking at it this way is false, is untrue. Men write most of the history books. Men have removed women from many histories. Men need to get over their pride and greed.

And I would disagree about the "more notable"... stuff. Tell that to the women in the NT. I can show you tons of women in the Nemenhah Record who play significant roles in their history. In fact, all of their communities were governed by a women's council that chose the governing council.

I hope you see your future wife as not only an equal but possessing many qualities and attributes that are worth you honoring her for.

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

Leaders in general aren't women. There's never been a female POTUS, for example. Not saying polygamy is excusable, but that's just the nature of... well, nature.

Also a very important observation. When the BoM talks about the “natural man”, MEN is far more predispositions to pride and greed. There’s something quite significant about the connection women have with their children. Women are far less prone to doing actions that will harm their children. Men are far more prone to go to war. This difference between genders is not always the case. I mean, some women are hellbent on securing their right to kill children through abortion.

And there have been a fair amount of women who have been leaders. We just don’t often get to hear about those stores. There’s a reason it’s called “His”story and not “Her”story.

I think the natural man applies to women as well, just as the word "mankind" also applies to women. Women have their own problems, even if they're not so obvious as war and violence.

You should know that the line about "his story" is a modern feminist talking point, designed to inflict resentment and strife among the genders. Feminism is just another branch of leftism, and leftism is at it's root essentially satanic, set on deconstructing God's laws and essential traditions.

We hear about men in history more because it is males who have done more "historically" notable things by and large. Women's roles traditionally are that of mothers, wives, and caregivers, like you note, not of statesmen, explorers, inventors, etc. There's no "evil patriarchy" bent on suppressing women's accomplishments. If anything there is a coalition of simps trying to overemphasize the role of masculine women and try to intellectually pit them against men in male domains, and thereby convincing them they are "oppressed," when in fact they are being intentionally propped up to suit a particular progressive agenda, who's ultimate goal is to dissolve the role of gender altogether.

You nailed it!!!!