Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

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Utahred
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Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Utahred »

Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://utahcindy.substack.com/p/ritual ... -church-is
Last edited by Utahred on October 2nd, 2023, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Atrasado
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Atrasado »

Utahred wrote: October 1st, 2023, 5:07 pm Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://cindymetcalf.substack.com/publi ... sh%2Fposts
Many of us are quite aware of what's happening, even among the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve and are appalled by it. I would like to know how to oppose these things in meaningful ways. Thanks for helping with this!

silverado
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by silverado »

I would read this if I didn't have to sign in with my e mail.

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RosyPosy
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by RosyPosy »

There's a user by the name of EndlessQuestions you should talk to. He's on hiatus but he should be back later this month.

Atrasado
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Posts: 1995

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Atrasado »

RosyPosy wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm There's a user by the name of EndlessQuestions you should talk to. He's on hiatus but he should be back later this month.
I don't know if he will. I hope so, but last we talked he was thinking of not returning and focusing on his family. I get that. I should probably do likewise, but it's hard to not talk to people who understand what I've learned about this crazy world. I'd be too lonely. I'll miss him if he doesn't come back.

Mala_Suerte
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Posts: 204
Location: Western Slope

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Mala_Suerte »

silverado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:31 pm I would read this if I didn't have to sign in with my e mail.
It didn't ask me for to sign in.

Here's her article:
Ritual Abuse in the LDS Church is Alive and Well
A Victim Advocate Speaks Out

UTAHRED
I am a certified victim advocate with a masters degree living in Salt Lake City. I’ve worked with ritual abuse survivors for 5 years. All of my clients are victims of religious abuse which is a form of sex trafficking. We know this is happening across the country but it is no where more evident than in Utah. Why? Because the LDS Church is fully engaged in child trafficking. How do I know this? Because hundreds of survivors have spoken about it. I’ve heard the stories. I’ve seen the evidence. I have worked personally with these broken souls. They are quiet and all around us. There are thousands upon thousands currently in the “system.”

Back in 2017 a gentleman by the name of Brett J O-Hara from the US Census Bureau came to Salt Lake City and gave a speech at the Little America Hotel to a room full of who’s who. Brett had been with the Bureau for quite a long time and was the chief of the Health Insurance and Disability Statistics Branch in the Housing and Household Economic Statistics Division at the U.S. Census Bureau. Note that he was part of the household economic statistics division which meant he was very good with numbers. In his speech Brett detailed his involvement with tracking family members in each household and he noticed something strange. Utah was missing over 1 million children. This far exceeded any other state statistics. While the other states were reporting about 100 - 200k kids missing, the tiny state of Utah was definitely an anomaly. Brett came out to Salt Lake City to investigate because he suspected foul play and he was right. Unfortunately Brett didn’t live long enough to get the truth. He died of a brain tumor a year later.

Between the Brett O-Hara story and the Glenn Pace memo, I could never shake off the idea that indeed there was foul play and so my search began with talking to survivors 5 years ago. I started with a woman in her 60s who had spoken about her abuse as a child within the LDS Church. Immediately I knew this had been going on in the 1950s at least and I also knew this was generational because she told me that ritual abuse was deep seated in the Church passing from bloodline families down. She spoke about a ceremony that took place at the Salt Lake City temple and the Free Mason Temple. She talked about rituals that took place in businesses, city government buildings, meeting houses and homes all cross the state. She was trafficked in other states as well so already we have a federal case on our hands because heaven knows, we’re not going to get justice in Utah. She spoke of the cannibalism, the murders and the torture. She had scars to prove it.

The stories of ritual abuse are the most disgusting, inhumane and evil events I have ever heard in my entire life. Things you can’t imagine have been done to children for money, sex and power. No mind can conceive of the abuse in it’s natural state, so I knew instinctively that the survivors I talked to were telling the truth. I knew this wasn’t false memories as a lot of ill-advised counselors and psychologists had assumed. I came to my conclusion very quickly that this was not conspiracy. How else could I have spoken to dozens and dozens of survivors all around the country who didn’t know each other, but were talking about the same abuse, the same rituals, the same patterns, and in many cases, the same perpetrators. No, I was hearing facts from survivors who were sane and rational.

What the perpetrators didn’t count on was that so many survivors would be linked together via the internet. They weren’t counting on social media to be a place of comradery, and they sure as hell didn’t think that survivors would be strong enough to speak up. Even though survivors as children were threatened with every inch of their life if they spoke up, that didn’t mean they would keep quiet as adults. Once their trauma has settled which is usually around the age of 30 - 40 years old, they are able to recall the details of the rituals. They can recall names, faces and locations quite astutely and with high accuracy. Many of the survivors I have interviewed are professionals with degrees and can articulate minute details including the color of the carpet, furnishing, the number of perpetrators, what they were dressed in, what they were doing and how they were behaving. The sweet LDS president that everyone loved was actually an evil, Satan worshipper who preferred to rape little boys. I remember hearing about the Quorum member who likes to cuddle with his victims after he sodomizes them. Think about that.

I have Mormon friends whom I adore. I don’t want to see the LDS Church destroyed by this information. I, in fact, think the Church has many great qualities. In many ways the Church functions efficiently and effectively. Members who hold fast to the real Jesus Christ have a great opportunity to teach the truth to a fallen world. But members need to clean the swamp. Members need to stand up and demand accountability of their leaders who are lying to them from the pulpit.

Some would suggest that there is a LDS Church of Satan who has infiltrated the Church, but I’m telling you, after working with survivors personally, that ritual abuse is alive and well and is being perpetrated from the highest ranks within the LDS Church and you deserve to know if you are member or were a member. And I would add, that ritual abuse isn’t just happening in the LDS Church but in all major religions including the Baptist Church, Catholic Church, Assembly of God, Lutheran and other mainstream Christian religions. Not all churches are corrupt and are involved with this, but you have a duty as a Christian to vet your leadership and ask questions because kids are no longer safe in the places they should feel safe.

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. — Matthew 18:6

Stay tuned for more SRA information in the weeks ahead.

silverado
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Posts: 684

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by silverado »

Mala_Suerte wrote: October 16th, 2023, 4:32 pm
silverado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:31 pm I would read this if I didn't have to sign in with my e mail.
It didn't ask me for to sign in.

Here's her article:
Ritual Abuse in the LDS Church is Alive and Well
A Victim Advocate Speaks Out

UTAHRED
I am a certified victim advocate with a masters degree living in Salt Lake City. I’ve worked with ritual abuse survivors for 5 years. All of my clients are victims of religious abuse which is a form of sex trafficking. We know this is happening across the country but it is no where more evident than in Utah. Why? Because the LDS Church is fully engaged in child trafficking. How do I know this? Because hundreds of survivors have spoken about it. I’ve heard the stories. I’ve seen the evidence. I have worked personally with these broken souls. They are quiet and all around us. There are thousands upon thousands currently in the “system.”

Back in 2017 a gentleman by the name of Brett J O-Hara from the US Census Bureau came to Salt Lake City and gave a speech at the Little America Hotel to a room full of who’s who. Brett had been with the Bureau for quite a long time and was the chief of the Health Insurance and Disability Statistics Branch in the Housing and Household Economic Statistics Division at the U.S. Census Bureau. Note that he was part of the household economic statistics division which meant he was very good with numbers. In his speech Brett detailed his involvement with tracking family members in each household and he noticed something strange. Utah was missing over 1 million children. This far exceeded any other state statistics. While the other states were reporting about 100 - 200k kids missing, the tiny state of Utah was definitely an anomaly. Brett came out to Salt Lake City to investigate because he suspected foul play and he was right. Unfortunately Brett didn’t live long enough to get the truth. He died of a brain tumor a year later.

Between the Brett O-Hara story and the Glenn Pace memo, I could never shake off the idea that indeed there was foul play and so my search began with talking to survivors 5 years ago. I started with a woman in her 60s who had spoken about her abuse as a child within the LDS Church. Immediately I knew this had been going on in the 1950s at least and I also knew this was generational because she told me that ritual abuse was deep seated in the Church passing from bloodline families down. She spoke about a ceremony that took place at the Salt Lake City temple and the Free Mason Temple. She talked about rituals that took place in businesses, city government buildings, meeting houses and homes all cross the state. She was trafficked in other states as well so already we have a federal case on our hands because heaven knows, we’re not going to get justice in Utah. She spoke of the cannibalism, the murders and the torture. She had scars to prove it.

The stories of ritual abuse are the most disgusting, inhumane and evil events I have ever heard in my entire life. Things you can’t imagine have been done to children for money, sex and power. No mind can conceive of the abuse in it’s natural state, so I knew instinctively that the survivors I talked to were telling the truth. I knew this wasn’t false memories as a lot of ill-advised counselors and psychologists had assumed. I came to my conclusion very quickly that this was not conspiracy. How else could I have spoken to dozens and dozens of survivors all around the country who didn’t know each other, but were talking about the same abuse, the same rituals, the same patterns, and in many cases, the same perpetrators. No, I was hearing facts from survivors who were sane and rational.

What the perpetrators didn’t count on was that so many survivors would be linked together via the internet. They weren’t counting on social media to be a place of comradery, and they sure as hell didn’t think that survivors would be strong enough to speak up. Even though survivors as children were threatened with every inch of their life if they spoke up, that didn’t mean they would keep quiet as adults. Once their trauma has settled which is usually around the age of 30 - 40 years old, they are able to recall the details of the rituals. They can recall names, faces and locations quite astutely and with high accuracy. Many of the survivors I have interviewed are professionals with degrees and can articulate minute details including the color of the carpet, furnishing, the number of perpetrators, what they were dressed in, what they were doing and how they were behaving. The sweet LDS president that everyone loved was actually an evil, Satan worshipper who preferred to rape little boys. I remember hearing about the Quorum member who likes to cuddle with his victims after he sodomizes them. Think about that.

I have Mormon friends whom I adore. I don’t want to see the LDS Church destroyed by this information. I, in fact, think the Church has many great qualities. In many ways the Church functions efficiently and effectively. Members who hold fast to the real Jesus Christ have a great opportunity to teach the truth to a fallen world. But members need to clean the swamp. Members need to stand up and demand accountability of their leaders who are lying to them from the pulpit.

Some would suggest that there is a LDS Church of Satan who has infiltrated the Church, but I’m telling you, after working with survivors personally, that ritual abuse is alive and well and is being perpetrated from the highest ranks within the LDS Church and you deserve to know if you are member or were a member. And I would add, that ritual abuse isn’t just happening in the LDS Church but in all major religions including the Baptist Church, Catholic Church, Assembly of God, Lutheran and other mainstream Christian religions. Not all churches are corrupt and are involved with this, but you have a duty as a Christian to vet your leadership and ask questions because kids are no longer safe in the places they should feel safe.

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. — Matthew 18:6

Stay tuned for more SRA information in the weeks ahead.
Thank you!

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Robin Hood
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Robin Hood »

Mala_Suerte wrote: October 16th, 2023, 4:32 pm
silverado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:31 pm I would read this if I didn't have to sign in with my e mail.
It didn't ask me for to sign in.

Here's her article:
Ritual Abuse in the LDS Church is Alive and Well
A Victim Advocate Speaks Out

UTAHRED
I am a certified victim advocate with a masters degree living in Salt Lake City. I’ve worked with ritual abuse survivors for 5 years. All of my clients are victims of religious abuse which is a form of sex trafficking. We know this is happening across the country but it is no where more evident than in Utah. Why? Because the LDS Church is fully engaged in child trafficking. How do I know this? Because hundreds of survivors have spoken about it. I’ve heard the stories. I’ve seen the evidence. I have worked personally with these broken souls. They are quiet and all around us. There are thousands upon thousands currently in the “system.”

Back in 2017 a gentleman by the name of Brett J O-Hara from the US Census Bureau came to Salt Lake City and gave a speech at the Little America Hotel to a room full of who’s who. Brett had been with the Bureau for quite a long time and was the chief of the Health Insurance and Disability Statistics Branch in the Housing and Household Economic Statistics Division at the U.S. Census Bureau. Note that he was part of the household economic statistics division which meant he was very good with numbers. In his speech Brett detailed his involvement with tracking family members in each household and he noticed something strange. Utah was missing over 1 million children. This far exceeded any other state statistics. While the other states were reporting about 100 - 200k kids missing, the tiny state of Utah was definitely an anomaly. Brett came out to Salt Lake City to investigate because he suspected foul play and he was right. Unfortunately Brett didn’t live long enough to get the truth. He died of a brain tumor a year later.

Between the Brett O-Hara story and the Glenn Pace memo, I could never shake off the idea that indeed there was foul play and so my search began with talking to survivors 5 years ago. I started with a woman in her 60s who had spoken about her abuse as a child within the LDS Church. Immediately I knew this had been going on in the 1950s at least and I also knew this was generational because she told me that ritual abuse was deep seated in the Church passing from bloodline families down. She spoke about a ceremony that took place at the Salt Lake City temple and the Free Mason Temple. She talked about rituals that took place in businesses, city government buildings, meeting houses and homes all cross the state. She was trafficked in other states as well so already we have a federal case on our hands because heaven knows, we’re not going to get justice in Utah. She spoke of the cannibalism, the murders and the torture. She had scars to prove it.

The stories of ritual abuse are the most disgusting, inhumane and evil events I have ever heard in my entire life. Things you can’t imagine have been done to children for money, sex and power. No mind can conceive of the abuse in it’s natural state, so I knew instinctively that the survivors I talked to were telling the truth. I knew this wasn’t false memories as a lot of ill-advised counselors and psychologists had assumed. I came to my conclusion very quickly that this was not conspiracy. How else could I have spoken to dozens and dozens of survivors all around the country who didn’t know each other, but were talking about the same abuse, the same rituals, the same patterns, and in many cases, the same perpetrators. No, I was hearing facts from survivors who were sane and rational.

What the perpetrators didn’t count on was that so many survivors would be linked together via the internet. They weren’t counting on social media to be a place of comradery, and they sure as hell didn’t think that survivors would be strong enough to speak up. Even though survivors as children were threatened with every inch of their life if they spoke up, that didn’t mean they would keep quiet as adults. Once their trauma has settled which is usually around the age of 30 - 40 years old, they are able to recall the details of the rituals. They can recall names, faces and locations quite astutely and with high accuracy. Many of the survivors I have interviewed are professionals with degrees and can articulate minute details including the color of the carpet, furnishing, the number of perpetrators, what they were dressed in, what they were doing and how they were behaving. The sweet LDS president that everyone loved was actually an evil, Satan worshipper who preferred to rape little boys. I remember hearing about the Quorum member who likes to cuddle with his victims after he sodomizes them. Think about that.

I have Mormon friends whom I adore. I don’t want to see the LDS Church destroyed by this information. I, in fact, think the Church has many great qualities. In many ways the Church functions efficiently and effectively. Members who hold fast to the real Jesus Christ have a great opportunity to teach the truth to a fallen world. But members need to clean the swamp. Members need to stand up and demand accountability of their leaders who are lying to them from the pulpit.

Some would suggest that there is a LDS Church of Satan who has infiltrated the Church, but I’m telling you, after working with survivors personally, that ritual abuse is alive and well and is being perpetrated from the highest ranks within the LDS Church and you deserve to know if you are member or were a member. And I would add, that ritual abuse isn’t just happening in the LDS Church but in all major religions including the Baptist Church, Catholic Church, Assembly of God, Lutheran and other mainstream Christian religions. Not all churches are corrupt and are involved with this, but you have a duty as a Christian to vet your leadership and ask questions because kids are no longer safe in the places they should feel safe.

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. — Matthew 18:6

Stay tuned for more SRA information in the weeks ahead.
Just another in a long line of "experts" (thank goodness he told us he had a Masters degree) with outrageous claims. These come and go with regularity.
We even have a forum member who first came here telling these stories he "knew" to be true. Strangely, he doesn't mention them anymore.

Bonhoeffer
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Posts: 430

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Bonhoeffer »

Utahred wrote: October 1st, 2023, 5:07 pm Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://utahcindy.substack.com/p/ritual ... -church-is
I honestly have no words. I grew up far away from the Mormon corridor & cannot begin to fathom the evil you’re describing anywhere but especially in Utah. Do you think these truths will ever come out? How do you see the victims going forward to make their stories heard?

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BigT
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by BigT »

I was born in Utah, spent most of my life in California, moved back to Utah 12 years ago. You have no idea what’s happening here. It will eventually be told upon the housetops but as long as LDS Inc runs the state, getting word out will be tough.

Juliet
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Juliet »

Being able to discern the craftiness of man is one of the things that separates those who make it to the Celestial Kingdom and those who make it to the Terrestrial kingdom.

D&C 76

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

Lemarque
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Posts: 607

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Lemarque »

Utahred wrote: October 1st, 2023, 5:07 pm Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://utahcindy.substack.com/p/ritual ... -church-is
I haven't read the whole thing yet, but just the first part about missing children reminded me of something I heard a couple years ago.

I live in Box Elder county in Utah. Largest town in the county is Brigham City. In November 2021 I attended a town hall meeting where the school district superintendent spoke. He talked about how when some large apartment complexes were built in Brigham City they were expecting to need to build a new elementary school from the population growth. But the new kids never showed up. Then he said that when they count up the number of kids registered to attend school and the kids who have registered for home school or charter/private schools, they are 6,000 kids short of the census numbers. There are 18,000 school age kids in the county based on census numbers, and they can only figure out where 12,000 of them are. The others are just missing.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by blitzinstripes »

Lemarque wrote: October 18th, 2023, 7:57 pm
Utahred wrote: October 1st, 2023, 5:07 pm Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://utahcindy.substack.com/p/ritual ... -church-is
I haven't read the whole thing yet, but just the first part about missing children reminded me of something I heard a couple years ago.

I live in Box Elder county in Utah. Largest town in the county is Brigham City. In November 2021 I attended a town hall meeting where the school district superintendent spoke. He talked about how when some large apartment complexes were built in Brigham City they were expecting to need to build a new elementary school from the population growth. But the new kids never showed up. Then he said that when they count up the number of kids registered to attend school and the kids who have registered for home school or charter/private schools, they are 6,000 kids short of the census numbers. There are 18,000 school age kids in the county based on census numbers, and they can only figure out where 12,000 of them are. The others are just missing.
😲😲😲😲😲

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: October 18th, 2023, 2:27 pm
Just another in a long line of "experts" (thank goodness he told us he had a Masters degree) with outrageous claims. These come and go with regularity.
We even have a forum member who first came here telling these stories he "knew" to be true. Strangely, he doesn't mention them anymore.
Did you watch the recent video about Ballard and Bowen and the $20M that was knowingly given to a pedophile to produce a film that never materialized?

Bookworm101
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Bookworm101 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 18th, 2023, 8:21 pm
Robin Hood wrote: October 18th, 2023, 2:27 pm
Just another in a long line of "experts" (thank goodness he told us he had a Masters degree) with outrageous claims. These come and go with regularity.
We even have a forum member who first came here telling these stories he "knew" to be true. Strangely, he doesn't mention them anymore.
Did you watch the recent video about Ballard and Bowen and the $20M that was knowingly given to a pedophile to produce a film that never materialized?
And it seems Ballard did this after Bowen was excommunicated and after a horrible desire Bowen shared about the Savior.

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Libertas Est Salus
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Libertas Est Salus »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 18th, 2023, 8:21 pm
Robin Hood wrote: October 18th, 2023, 2:27 pm
Just another in a long line of "experts" (thank goodness he told us he had a Masters degree) with outrageous claims. These come and go with regularity.
We even have a forum member who first came here telling these stories he "knew" to be true. Strangely, he doesn't mention them anymore.
Did you watch the recent video about Ballard and Bowen and the $20M that was knowingly given to a pedophile to produce a film that never materialized?
Where would I find this video?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Libertas Est Salus wrote: October 19th, 2023, 9:28 am Where would I find this video?
The video is timecoded in the Show Notes. Bowen starts at 1:22:28
Video was featured in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=72638

Lemarque
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Posts: 607

Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Lemarque »

Lemarque wrote: October 18th, 2023, 7:57 pm I haven't read the whole thing yet, but just the first part about missing children reminded me of something I heard a couple years ago.

I live in Box Elder county in Utah. Largest town in the county is Brigham City. In November 2021 I attended a town hall meeting where the school district superintendent spoke. He talked about how when some large apartment complexes were built in Brigham City they were expecting to need to build a new elementary school from the population growth. But the new kids never showed up. Then he said that when they count up the number of kids registered to attend school and the kids who have registered for home school or charter/private schools, they are 6,000 kids short of the census numbers. There are 18,000 school age kids in the county based on census numbers, and they can only figure out where 12,000 of them are. The others are just missing.
So this is what it says in the article:
"In his speech Brett detailed his involvement with tracking family members in each household and he noticed something strange. Utah was missing over 1 million children. This far exceeded any other state statistics. While the other states were reporting about 100 - 200k kids missing, the tiny state of Utah was definitely an anomaly"

But it doesn't make any sense. Population statistics, for the most part, only make sense in per capita. Not raw numbers. The states have wildly different populations, so you have to compare them using per capita.

I looked up the 2020 census data for Utah. It shows about 950,000 in Utah under the age of 18. If we are to believe this statistic of 1 million missing in Utah, then we have more missing kids than non-missing kids.

I stand by my comment about Box Elder county. I looked at the census data and it shows 18,000 under 18. And the school district superintendent said they could only figure out where 12,000 of them were.

But the idea that there are 1 million missing kids from Utah doesn't hold water.

Mala_Suerte
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Mala_Suerte »

Lemarque wrote: October 19th, 2023, 12:29 pm
Lemarque wrote: October 18th, 2023, 7:57 pm I haven't read the whole thing yet, but just the first part about missing children reminded me of something I heard a couple years ago.

I live in Box Elder county in Utah. Largest town in the county is Brigham City. In November 2021 I attended a town hall meeting where the school district superintendent spoke. He talked about how when some large apartment complexes were built in Brigham City they were expecting to need to build a new elementary school from the population growth. But the new kids never showed up. Then he said that when they count up the number of kids registered to attend school and the kids who have registered for home school or charter/private schools, they are 6,000 kids short of the census numbers. There are 18,000 school age kids in the county based on census numbers, and they can only figure out where 12,000 of them are. The others are just missing.
So this is what it says in the article:
"In his speech Brett detailed his involvement with tracking family members in each household and he noticed something strange. Utah was missing over 1 million children. This far exceeded any other state statistics. While the other states were reporting about 100 - 200k kids missing, the tiny state of Utah was definitely an anomaly"

But it doesn't make any sense. Population statistics, for the most part, only make sense in per capita. Not raw numbers. The states have wildly different populations, so you have to compare them using per capita.

I looked up the 2020 census data for Utah. It shows about 950,000 in Utah under the age of 18. If we are to believe this statistic of 1 million missing in Utah, then we have more missing kids than non-missing kids.

I stand by my comment about Box Elder county. I looked at the census data and it shows 18,000 under 18. And the school district superintendent said they could only figure out where 12,000 of them were.

But the idea that there are 1 million missing kids from Utah doesn't hold water.
I looked up the statistics, as well, and came to the same conclusion you did. Numbers don't make sense.

I also wondered about Brett J. O'Hara, of the Census Bureau, whom UtahCindy states, "Unfortunately Brett didn’t live long enough to get the truth. He died of a brain tumor a year later." The speech he gave and Cindy heard was in 2017, so according to her, he died in 2018. Oddly, the Census Bureau still has Brett's bio listed on their website. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/release ... a_bio.html Also, Brett published an article in 2018 and again in 2019. https://www.census.gov/library/working- ... -DGJ.html https://www.census.gov/library/working- ... 19-27.html Sometimes researchers submit work to be published, but the review process can take a while. So I thought maybe Brett died in 2017 and his co-authors published the work. So I downloaded one of his articles https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Cens ... 053119.pdf in which he compares Census methodologies in 2017 w/ changed methodologies in 2018 to see if there was a measurable result. So not only did he survive 2017, but he was alive in 2018, as well. Now it could very well be that UtahCindy simply got this fact wrong. Or it could be that she is taking dramatic license in her article and misrepresenting the truth for effect. Either way, this along w/ the wonky statistics, makes it hard to believe anything that she says.

I'm not saying there are no missing kids in Utah, b/c I'm sure there are, but UtahCindy's article isn't where the truth is. Although, she states that she has "seen the evidence", the only evidence that she can offer is a few anecdotal stories. If she has evidence why not produce it?

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Robin Hood
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Robin Hood »

Atrasado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 11:09 pm
RosyPosy wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm There's a user by the name of EndlessQuestions you should talk to. He's on hiatus but he should be back later this month.
... last we talked he was thinking of not returning...
That's a relief.

JuneBug12000
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by JuneBug12000 »

Lemarque wrote: October 18th, 2023, 7:57 pm
Utahred wrote: October 1st, 2023, 5:07 pm Read my post on Substack about ritual abuse within the church. You deserve to know what's really going on. Share with your friends. This is not a LDS bashing article but education regarding what is happening within religions nationwide and what needs to change to protect children. I only focus this article on the LDS Church because I live in Salt Lake City and I have worked personally with many ritual abuse survivors here, but this is an epidemic amongst select churches everywhere no matter what your religion.

https://utahcindy.substack.com/p/ritual ... -church-is
I haven't read the whole thing yet, but just the first part about missing children reminded me of something I heard a couple years ago.

I live in Box Elder county in Utah. Largest town in the county is Brigham City. In November 2021 I attended a town hall meeting where the school district superintendent spoke. He talked about how when some large apartment complexes were built in Brigham City they were expecting to need to build a new elementary school from the population growth. But the new kids never showed up. Then he said that when they count up the number of kids registered to attend school and the kids who have registered for home school or charter/private schools, they are 6,000 kids short of the census numbers. There are 18,000 school age kids in the county based on census numbers, and they can only figure out where 12,000 of them are. The others are just missing.
There are two possibilities I see, and there may be more.

Some people don't sign up their kids for home or charter school. It used to be required by law in Utah to sign up each year in your district for homeschool and they would send you your exemption paper. Then they changed it, sign up once and they would kind of auto renew and send you your yearly exemption.

With people moving around, they don't necessarily signal moving or ending in a certain location. So the numbers get off.

I don't live there now, so I don't know the current rules.

Second, I see this all the time with demographics, they use estimates instead of raw data, or combine them. So maybe the enrollments are true data and the expected enrollments are an estimate based on census projections.

Utah is really bad at using old census projections as if they are true and current.

They built a whole bunch of elementary schools in south west salt lake city and then had to change them to overflow for older kids around 2013 because they didn't pay attention to the lower birth rates that started 5 years earlier.

They continue with their 2050 plan to ignore that those who move in are not Mormon. Not going to join. Not having kids. As well as the Mormon population not getting married and having kids.

They are really bad at demographic reality vs. estimates.

Atrasado
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Atrasado »

Robin Hood wrote: October 20th, 2023, 3:16 pm
Atrasado wrote: October 1st, 2023, 11:09 pm
RosyPosy wrote: October 1st, 2023, 10:34 pm There's a user by the name of EndlessQuestions you should talk to. He's on hiatus but he should be back later this month.
... last we talked he was thinking of not returning...
That's a relief.
What an un-Christlike thing to say. He's added a lot to this forum. I'm disappointed that you would write that.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Ritual Abuse Is Alive and Well in the LDS Church

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

He's back btw. :)

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