LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

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PeacefulProtests
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by PeacefulProtests »

This thread reminded me of this quote from one of my favorite books "The God Who Weeps" by Terryl Givens

"What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.
We are, as reflective, thinking, pondering seekers, much like the proverbial @#$ of Buridan. The beast in the parable starves to death because he is faced with two equally desirable and equally accessible piles of hay. Having no determinative reason to choose one over the other in indecision. In the case of us mortals, we are confronted with a world in which there are appealing arguments for a Divinity that is a childish projection, for prophets as scheming or deluded imposters, and for scriptures as so much fabulous fiction. But there is also compelling evidence that a glorious Divinity presides over the Cosmos, that his angels are strangers we have entertained unaware, and that his Word and will are made manifest through a scriptural canon that is never definitively closed.
There is, as with the @#$ of Buridan, nothing to compel an individual's preference for one over the other. For most of us, at least, there neither a choir of heavenly heralds proving God exists, not a laboratory of science equipment proving He doesn't. Rather, we find a persuasive body of evidence on both sides of life's competing propositions. Only in the case of us mortals, there is something to tip the scale. There is something to predispose us to a life of faith or life of disbelief. There is a heart that, in these conditions of equilibrium and balance, equally "enticed by the one or the other," is truly free to choose belief or skepticism, faith or faithlessness
The call to faith in this light, is not some test of a coy god, waiting to see it we "get it right". It is the only summons issued under the only conditions, which can allows us to fully to reveal who we are, what we most love, and what we most devoutly desire. Without constrain, without any form of mental compulsion, the act of belief becomes the freest possible projection of what resides in our hearts.
Like the poet's image of a church bell that only reveals its latent music when struck, or a dragonfly that only flames forth its beauty in flight, so does the content of a human heart lie buried until action calls it forth. The greatest act of self revelation occurs when we choose what we will believe, in that space of freedom that exists between knowing that a thing is, and knowing that a thing is not.
This is the realm where faith operates, and when faith is freely chosen gesture, it expresses something essential about the self. For we do indeed create gods after our own image - or potential image. And that is an actively endowed with incalculable moral meaning. If we linger in indecision, as does Buridans beast, we will not perish. We will simply miss an opportunity to act decisively in the absence of certainty, and shoe that fear of error is greater than our love of truth"

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Doctrine and Covenants 93:
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
Truth is a correct knowledge of things as they were, are and will be. In essence, truth, then, is EXPERIENTIAL knowledge. It is obtained by diligence and precedes intelligence according to symmetry in the following reference:
Doctrine and Covenants 130:
18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.
While KNOWLEDGE is obtained through DILIGENCE, INTELLIGENCE is obtained through OBEDIENCE to the knowledge which one has acquired and is the EXPRESSION of the proper use of KNOWLEDGE. When knowledge finds application, it is a process of revelation and reception of LIGHT.
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught:

The nearer man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments, till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 210).
Progression Digression.png
Progression Digression.png (159.01 KiB) Viewed 299 times
WISDOM is the proper application of INTELLIGENCE and can, also, be recognized as OBEDIENCE to INTELLIGENCE.
Doctrine and Covenants 93:
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
We know not because we seek not. The problem is that truth is relative until it becomes absolute.

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TheDuke
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by TheDuke »

BruceRGilbert wrote: June 5th, 2023, 9:46 pm
Doctrine and Covenants 93:
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
Truth is a correct knowledge of things as they were, are and will be. In essence, truth, then, is EXPERIENTIAL knowledge. It is obtained by diligence and precedes intelligence according to symmetry in the following reference:
Doctrine and Covenants 130:
18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.
While KNOWLEDGE is obtained through DILIGENCE, INTELLIGENCE is obtained through OBEDIENCE to the knowledge which one has acquired and is the EXPRESSION of the proper use of KNOWLEDGE. When knowledge finds application, it is a process of revelation and reception of LIGHT.
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught:

The nearer man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments, till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 210).
Progression Digression.png

WISDOM is the proper application of INTELLIGENCE and can, also, be recognized as OBEDIENCE to INTELLIGENCE.
Doctrine and Covenants 93:
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
We know not because we seek not. The problem is that truth is relative until it becomes absolute.
I love these comments. I have tried to start several threads on FF about "truth". In fact, that was the first thread I ever started. I could see that among the few on here that are either clueless or anti-LDS for whatever reason, or just lost, MOST have truth. Some truth, their truth and they seem to differ. further (see Stapley's plans of salvation on BCC to see how many different truths Joseph's friends had) the HG or at least the LoC or Light of Truth or the Holy Spirit, testifies to these seemingly contradictory truths. I mean not all posted here. I do press folks on their views that I feel are contrary to both my truths and the LDS baseline truths to see where the came from. The vast majority are simply opinion or their views mingled with their understanding of scripture. On topics about LDS leaders or Covid or government they are usually just feelings based on rumors (likely true rumors) and anger. but, some are based on different levels of revelation or inspiration from the Lord or one of his spiritual interfaces (HS, HG, LoC, LoT, intelligence flowing, etc....). If someone says something, even very seemingly wrong but uses their statement is is "truth revealed to them by the Lord". I will never say they are wrong. As they are either lying, or deceived, or learning another truth that is for them. I must assume the later, except for truths that are about me or my family or something larger than themselves, then they are not correct as they don't get truths for me.

Anyway, the key is stated above. Truths is "knowledge of ....", not the facts, not the things, but knowledge of things. Knowledge of means "comprehension" or "understanding" or "enlightenment" and we all are enlightened differently, even for the same facts. Hence, truth is truly different for each of us in that level of depth and must be accepted by others.

However, we interact to help each other see our truths (well some do, some just tear down others and anything they feel is either TBM-ish or other sides non-TMB-ish). Because understanding someone's truths help us refine our own. I have learned so much from FF, more than church in the past 3-4 years. but seldom do I accept anyone's truths directly. I find that if I hear a truth (like I did from "herewego" in Utah, that later, maybe hours, maybe days, maybe weeks, it comes back to me. I revisit it and I see a middle ground. Often it stretches my own understanding, where at first blush, I just found it out-of-bounds of my precepts.

This is why, I dearly love real, honest discussions w/o the vitriol and hate that is her post covid (always was for polygamy but not too many other areas). It takes away the spirit for no reason and makes it hard to learn. I love learning. I have learned from FF and links and links to links and extrapolation, basically the entire purpose of life and surely its essence; of course when combined with the spirit the LoC and deeper study of scripture and Joseph's teachings.

SO I DISAGREE WITH THE OP; THERE IS TRUTH HERE, BUT LIKE IN THE LDS CHURCH TEACHINGS, YOU MUST DIG IT OUT!

Well, not so successful on the FF prophesies yet! batting ZERO there.

Good & Global
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Good & Global »

I agree with a lot of that Duke. I think for the most part there is honesty in how people express things here.
Where there is honesty, learning can occur. It is like the gospel doctrine class that should have been.

I have learned a lot and been encouraged to try to learn more by being here.
Questions ordinarily aren't shut down or no attempt made to answer..

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Ymarsakar
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Ymarsakar »

Good & Global wrote: June 6th, 2023, 1:52 am I agree with a lot of that Duke. I think for the most part there is honesty in how people express things here.
Where there is honesty, learning can occur. It is like the gospel doctrine class that should have been.

I have learned a lot and been encouraged to try to learn more by being here.
Questions ordinarily aren't shut down or no attempt made to answer..
Honesty is it....

Is that a 6 or a 9? Optical illusions, people see different things and both may be valid. They see a six. Others see a 9. They are looking at the exact same thing.
Last edited by Ymarsakar on June 6th, 2023, 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Ymarsakar »

Now this is a much better example of using quotation of dead people in context and not misusing bible/scripture authors to make a personal point.

Hopefully this will spread across the christian web.
BruceRGilbert wrote: June 5th, 2023, 9:46 pm
Doctrine and Covenants 93:
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
Truth is a correct knowledge of things as they were, are and will be. In essence, truth, then, is EXPERIENTIAL knowledge. It is obtained by diligence and precedes intelligence according to symmetry in the following reference:
Doctrine and Covenants 130:
18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.
While KNOWLEDGE is obtained through DILIGENCE, INTELLIGENCE is obtained through OBEDIENCE to the knowledge which one has acquired and is the EXPRESSION of the proper use of KNOWLEDGE. When knowledge finds application, it is a process of revelation and reception of LIGHT.
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught:

The nearer man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments, till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 210).
Progression Digression.png

WISDOM is the proper application of INTELLIGENCE and can, also, be recognized as OBEDIENCE to INTELLIGENCE.
Doctrine and Covenants 93:
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
We know not because we seek not. The problem is that truth is relative until it becomes absolute.

Bookworm101
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Bookworm101 »

I'm going to give this a shot and post my first reply on a subject here. I have a infrared sauna. I am going through a major healing of shingles and some other skin issues that have plagued me for the last 4 years. I spend a lot of time in this sauna for it's healing properties and I am never inside it without my long reaching back scratcher due to the itchiness of sweating. One day I was deep in meditation and looked down at my backscratcher. When I went into the sauna the handle was one color but due to the color I had turned on the handle turned a different color. I went in with a green
handle but under the light in the sauna I was now holding a yellow handle. I could "testify" to anyone around me that I had a yellow handle....but if I handed to someone our in the light of the bedroom they would be holding a green handle and could then "testify" to me of the truthfulness of the green over my "knowledge"of the yellow. It's the light of Christ and where we are in it. How much true light/lense do we see through is what truth we will see. I learned from this that nothing anyone testifies to me means much....even "proof" in the scriptures doesn't mean much....I seek His light to show me what is real and true. Because I have learned these past few years I know nothing. 😁
Last edited by Bookworm101 on June 6th, 2023, 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Good & Global
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Good & Global »

Bookworm101 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:35 am I'm going to give this a shot and post my first reply on a subject here. I have a infrared sauna. I am going through a major healing of shingles and some other skin issues that have plagued me for the last 4 years. I spend a lot of time in this sauna for it's healing properties and I am never inside it without my long reaching back scratcher due to the itchiness of sweating. One day I was deep in meditation and looked down at my backscratcher. When I went into the sauna the handle was one color but due to the color I had turned on the handle turned a different color. I went in with a green
handle but under the light in the sauna I was now holding a yellow handle. I could "testify" to anyone around me that I had a yellow handle....but if I handed to someone our in the light of the bedroom they would be holding a green handle and could then "testify" to me of the truthfulness of the green over my "knowledge"of the yellow. It's the light of Christ and where we are in it. How much true light/lense do we see through is what truth we will see. I learned from this that nothing anyone testifies to me means much....even "proof" in the scriptures doesn't mean much....I seek His light to show me what is real and true. Because I have learned these past few years I know nothing. 😁
I commend you on knowing the truthfulness of your back scratcher.

Good luck on your journey here and welcome!

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Ymarsakar
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Ymarsakar »

clap clap. another advanced student has arrived
Bookworm101 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:35 am I'm going to give this a shot and post my first reply on a subject here. I have a infrared sauna. I am going through a major healing of shingles and some other skin issues that have plagued me for the last 4 years. I spend a lot of time in this sauna for it's healing properties and I am never inside it without my long reaching back scratcher due to the itchiness of sweating. One day I was deep in meditation and looked down at my backscratcher. When I went into the sauna the handle was one color but due to the color I had turned on the handle turned a different color. I went in with a green
handle but under the light in the sauna I was now holding a yellow handle. I could "testify" to anyone around me that I had a yellow handle....but if I handed to someone our in the light of the bedroom they would be holding a green handle and could then "testify" to me of the truthfulness of the green over my "knowledge"of the yellow. It's the light of Christ and where we are in it. How much true light/lense do we see through is what truth we will see. I learned from this that nothing anyone testifies to me means much....even "proof" in the scriptures doesn't mean much....I seek His light to show me what is real and true. Because I have learned these past few years I know nothing. 😁

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Thinker
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Thinker »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 5th, 2023, 9:45 am The journey of souls book documented a lot of life between lives memories.

The audiobooks are on scribd and ytube.

They seem to learn in soul groups like grades or classrooms. Advanced individuals graduate in color based on chakra rainbow.

The dim whites are new souls. Red. Orange. Yellow are like teenager souls or 10 year olds.

The green marks the advancement of maturity, a junior guide or responsible soul. Blue and indigo are the higher grades.

The graduates are pure silver white or very black.

The black represents self control. Not letting any light go to waste in expressing energy. Indigo is a very very dark shade of purple.

If a soul advsnces fast they may graduate out of their soul group.

The stories were very interesting and i read them post lds baptism. They seemed to parallel the teachings of j smith and brigham young.
I looked up that book - thanks for bringing it to my attention. Seems mixed reviews as far as “legitimacy.” But, that’s to be expected in speculating on the universally unknown.

Might read it. One comment of someone who read it seemed fitting in multiple contexts, including JS/Mormonism at its various stages… maybe the spirit realm that particular person describes is the only 1 they are able to perceive & draws or attracts similar spirits. It’s not THE single truth, but 1 of many possibilities.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Ymarsakar »

The book compiles testimonies of thousands ofnclinical clients
Thinker wrote: June 9th, 2023, 4:51 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 5th, 2023, 9:45 am The journey of souls book documented a lot of life between lives memories.

The audiobooks are on scribd and ytube.

They seem to learn in soul groups like grades or classrooms. Advanced individuals graduate in color based on chakra rainbow.

The dim whites are new souls. Red. Orange. Yellow are like teenager souls or 10 year olds.

The green marks the advancement of maturity, a junior guide or responsible soul. Blue and indigo are the higher grades.

The graduates are pure silver white or very black.

The black represents self control. Not letting any light go to waste in expressing energy. Indigo is a very very dark shade of purple.

If a soul advsnces fast they may graduate out of their soul group.

The stories were very interesting and i read them post lds baptism. They seemed to parallel the teachings of j smith and brigham young.
I looked up that book - thanks for bringing it to my attention. Seems mixed reviews as far as “legitimacy.” But, that’s to be expected in speculating on the universally unknown.

Might read it. One comment of someone who read it seemed fitting in multiple contexts, including JS/Mormonism at its various stages… maybe the spirit realm that particular person describes is the only 1 they are able to perceive & draws or attracts similar spirits. It’s not THE single truth, but 1 of many possibilities.

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Alaris
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Alaris »

DivineSpark wrote: June 4th, 2023, 10:21 pm Polygamy - half the people know it's real, and the other half know it's lies.
Wrong - there is a small percentage who know what to write. I will do what God cares. Brigham Young was wrong. Abraham, and his grandson Jacob, was right. God knows.

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markharr
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by markharr »

Go back to the basics. Find the common ground. The fundamentals that are the foundation of it all. All else must be built upon a foundation.

There is a creator. All things denote that there is a God.

There must be a Savior to temper justice with mercy while not supplanting justice.

Revenge and pride always continue a downward spiral to destruction. Forgiveness ends the spiral.

There is only man and woman.

Light always overcomes darkness. Darkness never overcomes light.

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Thinker
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Thinker »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 10th, 2023, 5:42 am The book compiles testimonies of thousands ofnclinical clients
I listened to many - hours - of them. Started part 2 but the spirit guide thing turned me off. No gods before God.


Here are some notes from part 1:

No soul is inherently evil - but may be immature.
1:58 Judgment/accountability. Some souls who acted evil in life won’t mix w other souls - not punishment but regeneration - no destroying energy but remanaging. They help choose next life/Karma to develop empathy/learn. (Main key is trying/growing - not perfection.
2:35 Suicide will return relearn it all over again. Guide tried to talk w - but need to reach deep within. Healing area: 1 eventually learned to use healing energy more effectively partly by releasing damaged parts.
2:52 life review partly about if we accomplished what we set out to.
4:45 grouped by ego, cognitive awareness, expression & desire.
4:54 no 2 guides r the same.
https://youtu.be/9YJiYEiGg3c

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Thinker
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Re: LDSFF has proven one thing 100%

Post by Thinker »

Erastothenes wrote: June 5th, 2023, 5:27 pm Your absolutely 100% correct DivineSpark. When it comes to religion, God, death, life etc. no one knows anything. The majority of the LDS faith accept RMN as a prophet of God. He knows nothing about the mysteries of God. No one does. We all have theories. But there are a billion different theories. Each human has faith is a different being they hope exists and listens or even cares about us. NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING! Its all theory.
Good thing to keep in mind.
Nobody “knows” which is why testimony meetings are partly lies when people claim to know… as I did once upon a time… then years later realized I was wrong.

Atheists love this quote 😉 “All have faith, but not all are conscious of having faith.”

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