Is God not enough?

[Thinker]

God made us in His image

This is an entertaining little video and gets the point across well enough to be understood

[youtube]YbipxLDtY8c

Yes, I’m very familiar with those ideas. I just quoted a scripture in another thread about Heavenly Mother:

• ”God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” - Genesis 1:27

But that’s different from worshipping false gods - idols (like the bible) that are prioritized above God.

[Luke]

In the New Testament . . . parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.

What are these parts, then?

[Thinker]

In the New Testament . . . parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.

What are these parts, then?

Ha! That’s like asking what would countless hours of study, meditation & the Spirit tell me about every single scripture?

Spoiler

[Luke]

In the New Testament . . . parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.

What are these parts, then?

Ha! That’s like asking what would countless hours of study, meditation & the Spirit tell me about every single scripture?

Spoiler

Give me a few examples then.

[Thinker]

In the New Testament . . . parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.

What are these parts, then?

Ha! That’s like asking what would countless hours of study, meditation & the Spirit tell me about every single scripture?

Spoiler

Give me a few examples then.

It is well known that canonization of the gospels & some other New Testament books happened much later - hundreds of years - AFTER Jesus & supposed biblical events… and after councils of voting on theology.
Eg:

1) Scriptures that speak about the nature of (Latin) Jesus are based on these councils which evolved from claiming Jesus became God after resurrection… to being God in preexistance.

2) References to Human Sacrifice being required by God are obviously evil, not godly. Eating his body & drinking his blood??? Obviously satanic.

3) References to scapegoating Jesus - pretending to put all the blame on him so we don’t have to make amends, correct any wrongs, being required by God - are obviously evil, not godly.

There are countless others - but it’s as I read, after studying Christian origins, meditating & praying - I spiritually sense when scriptures are edifying and truth-based, and when they come from a lower, deceptive spirit.


And the “FATHER OF CHRISTIAN HISTORY” is a self- admitting LIAR:

How was the biblical canon first determined? The Catholic (“Universal”) church, under Constantine’s organization of councils.

“The Fifty Bibles of Constantine were Bibles in the original Greek language commissioned in 331 by Constantine I and prepared by Eusebius of Caesarea.They were made for the use of the Bishop of Constantinople in the growing number of churches in that very new city. Eusebius quoted the letter of commission in his Life of Constantine...”

Eusebius was Constantine’s trusted advisor, Father of church history, Catholic Bishop from 260-339 & had great influence in establishing the Bible - and admitted to lying and deception when it came to doctrine...

Eusebius said:
“It is an act of virtue to deceive & lie, when by such means the interest of the church might be promoted.”
&
“It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.”

[Thinker]

About Religion, (Alan watts)
8: Impossible religion
Christianity is set up so it’s impossible to follow Christ. He’s too high on a pedestal.
Reminds me of Jung saying, ”man can't see God because he doesn't look low enough.”

13: Greek originally: Christ is A son of God… religion OF… vs ABOUT Jesus. :17: mystic: 1 with God.
Catholic= “universal” so he implied we are all children of God. Christ was 1 too & his Union with God was misinterpreted to mean he was uniquely God, but really he was saying “the god in me connects with God” & that internal connection is within all - that is “the way, the truth, the life.”

https://youtu.be/avN_gQ7NC0I

[Thinker]

No matter what happens, all of the ups and downs and constant change, God is the one constant, and the only fulfillment. Everything else is “not enough.” This is why so many of us have struggled with addiction - whether it be alcohol, religion, drugs, food, or online forums… they’re low lying fruit but can never provide what only God can.

I imagine this song being about without God it’s never enough… and wanting to hold on to that powerful spiritual moment…

https://youtu.be/ao46CL-FDUM

[varnaj42]

Definitely heretical so brace yourself.

It seems like for all religious people (including me) - God is NOT enough. We need idols to attach to God - or even make idols (like Jesus) into gods. Dogma shames anyone who dares question these idols or gods - yet the biggest red flag for the adversary’s approach is to try to deny free agency & shift the focus away from God & shifting response-ability - which ironically forcing belief in Eg., human sacrifice scapegoating does.

“Thou shalt have no other gods.”
Why not?

To be clear, I appreciate & see truth in scriptures & I believe in Christ as the ultimate ideal to follow, but I don’t replace God with him. And I don’t trust in fallible scripture authors/editors etc. Even though I see Catholicism responsible for corruption of many Christian ideas, I still value truths from it... Eg:

Who God is & who God isn’t:
https://youtu.be/1zMf_8hkCdc

God is not “a” being, but being itself... “I AM that I AM.” “Be still and know that I AM God.” Who we are minus physicality, are children of God. “The kingdom of God is within us”! God may be the effort of striving for the highest GOoD - remembering & living our first estate - our divine nature. In doing this, sometimes religious ideas, rituals etc., help & sometimes hinder. It’s ignorant to assume we can blindly accept whatever others tell us & that “opposition in all things” doesn’t apply to religion.

The idea that God/GOoD is revealed through its opposite is hard to fathom & I can see how this truth is twisted to pretend evil is good & vice versa. Truth & integrity need to be prioritized - & even then, it may be a maze in figuring out truth & good. God created everything & in a sense is in & part of everything - omnipresent. So, “God is not enough” - seems impossible except God is hierarchal - striving for higher & higher goods. Worshiping God - who is intelligent (“to choose between”) is being selective. Thinking or expressing belief in God is not enough to experience God. Worshipping God is striving for what’s best, through active faith (trial & error).

Maybe some of these idols are attempts to experience God & may not be idols but rather “divination tools” if they help connect to God - not distract away from God. But because the adversary has infiltrated religions, caution is needed. Replacing god with idols - it will never be enough (hence addictions, feeling unfulfilled etc). Maybe that is how you know the difference between godly aids & idols - experiencing God is enough.

The idea that a mere image means a "god" is a carry over from the reformation. They needed every possible reason to reject the Roman church so they came up with the idea that if one uses a statue to depict a holy person "it must mean worship"??? Nonsense. How many of us have photos of loved ones? They are used as reminders. Do we consider them gods just because we like to look at the photo from time to time? Nope. They are just reminders. It's the same with religious icons.

In the pre-Christian world people really did believe in and worship other gods. They still did not worship the image. They knew perfectly well that it was only a physical form used to represent their god. But protestant Christians go ape over it every time they see a Catholic with a statue of Jesus. Oh they worship the statue. Horsefeathers!!!!

In the LDS visitor's center in Salt Lake City is a great big statue of Jesus with some benches in front. I sat down and the statue began speaking. I got up and walked away. No thanks. I'm not listening to a talking statue. Does this mean Mormons worship a statue? No. But it means they have no business criticizing Catholics just because they, too, have statues in their churches.

The single greatest thing that is wrong with religions is that they, all of them, are man made. We are imperfect. So are our religions.

I heaven we will find, finally, that there are no religious requirements at all. How very refreshing that will be.

[Ymarsakar]

Another problem with Constantine is that he gave christianity taxation exemption. They functioned under an autocephalous patriarch system. Each diocese had a patriarch and that patriarch answered to the liege lord of the land, and paid tithes and other stuff. The patriarch was appointed by the ranking title holder. Sometimes they WERE the title holder. There was no "election" by the faithful.

So the Empire became more and more interested in "regulating" christianity, to ensure it could cement the entire empire in faith, as it served as a stabilizing force against rebellion and dissent.

Follow the patriarch and the Son of God, who is in Rome, and all is well!

In modern days, the state still does this using "tax exemption". The churches are not free from the government so much as regulated and under the government. We saw this in 2020. When the state really gave a command, it was obeyed.

[Thinker]

... How many of us have photos of loved ones? They are used as reminders. Do we consider them gods just because we like to look at the photo from time to time? Nope. They are just reminders. It's the same with religious icons…

In the LDS visitor's center in Salt Lake City is a great big statue of Jesus with some benches in front. I sat down and the statue began speaking. I got up and walked away. No thanks. I'm not listening to a talking statue. Does this mean Mormons worship a statue? No. But it means they have no business criticizing Catholics just because they, too, have statues in their churches.

The single greatest thing that is wrong with religions is that they, all of them, are man made. We are imperfect. So are our religions.

I heaven we will find, finally, that there are no religious requirements at all. How very refreshing that will be.

I agree on multiple points. Images can inspire us - and not necessarily be worshipped (though having white hippy handsome Jesus paintings in places of worship is suspect). The Christus & recording in the SLC visitors center is weird - & definitely looks like idol worship.

How refreshing that you see no religious requirements refreshing! I feel similarly.

You’ve probably heard the story of an Angel giving a tour of the different parts of Heaven. The Angel described each place until they came to an area & asked everyone to please be quiet as they passed this area. Once out of that area, someone asked, “Why did you want us quiet back there?” The Angel responded, “That’s the Mormons - they think they’re the only ones here.”

It seems that a major purpose of life is to become more aware of ourselves & others - to love better. Inner awareness is awareness and being connected to God, who connects us all. And that’s how we live the greatest commandments.

[varnaj42]

... How many of us have photos of loved ones? They are used as reminders. Do we consider them gods just because we like to look at the photo from time to time? Nope. They are just reminders. It's the same with religious icons…

In the LDS visitor's center in Salt Lake City is a great big statue of Jesus with some benches in front. I sat down and the statue began speaking. I got up and walked away. No thanks. I'm not listening to a talking statue. Does this mean Mormons worship a statue? No. But it means they have no business criticizing Catholics just because they, too, have statues in their churches.

The single greatest thing that is wrong with religions is that they, all of them, are man made. We are imperfect. So are our religions.

I heaven we will find, finally, that there are no religious requirements at all. How very refreshing that will be.

I agree on multiple points. Images can inspire us - and not necessarily be worshipped (though having white hippy handsome Jesus paintings in places of worship is suspect). The Christus & recording in the SLC visitors center is weird - & definitely looks like idol worship.

How refreshing that you see no religious requirements refreshing! I feel similarly.

You’ve probably heard the story of an Angel giving a tour of the different parts of Heaven. The Angel described each place until they came to an area & asked everyone to please be quiet as they passed this area. Once out of that area, someone asked, “Why did you want us quiet back there?” The Angel responded, “That’s the Mormons - they think they’re the only ones here.”

It seems that a major purpose of life is to become more aware of ourselves & others - to love better. Inner awareness is awareness and being connected to God, who connects us all. And that’s how we live the greatest commandments.

Angels are a race of being apart. They existed before the creation, with God, to do His (or Her) bidding. They are messengers as most of us will agree.

In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia. Here is a bit of information that I truly believe in.

Human souls are born to a higher plane in the Earth's heavens. They prepare for the journey. Then, when the time is right, they descend to the physical Earth and are born as babies. This is the way it is. The object of all this? Easy. Our God given goal is to grow and to achieve, not knowledge, but wisdom. Then when we have learned all the Earth can teach we are released. This is exactly what is meant when Christians talk of achieving perfection, resurrection and redemption and all that. Any Christian who wants to know more need only study mystical Judaism. It's all there. BTY Jesus' temporal family were all members of the Essenes. They were the "knowers" of those times.

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden). In the Earth's heavens we cannoe meet and overcome adversity. Only here on Earth is that possible. This is why incarnations are necessary. We live thousands of lives. We are of all races, gay and straight, short and tall, normal or disfigured, sick or healthy and all of the other variations. From each we learn. But the knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle.

There is much more to this story. The trouble with Christianity is that it gives us a present and a future but about our origins and past it says nothing.... nothing at all. This is OK for junior souls. It is not ok for those who have achieved. And, I might add. those among humanity who were prophets did know all this. They just keep it quiet.

[Ymarsakar]

The social memory complex, aka archangel collective, calling itself the Ra Confederation as channeled in the Law of One books, talks about a belief system based around the Law of One. Meaning that ultimately at the end of the day, the game of good vs evil is simply a game and we are all spiritual comrades when outside the game of time and space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guLQ8KDNyLw

This is exemplified in this 8 minute clip.

"And, I might add. those among humanity who were prophets did know all this. They just keep it quiet."

Jeshua was so sick of people following him around and feeding them, that he told them that they had to eat of his flesh and blood. That was a hard teaching for many to take and then they left him. I think he was intentionally being antagonistic there and veiling the Divine DNA stuff, speaking in such a way that it offended people (because cannibalism was a very real religious teaching in other areas back then).

The old prophets and ancient civs always had to worry about some satan worshipper pretending to be a pure authority, stoning them to death for something or other. If it is not prophecies not coming true, it is something else entirely, like what they beheaded John the baptist for.

Basically it is suppressing their free speech. So either people didn't understand what they were talking about, or if they did understand, they would come and start the killing.

... How many of us have photos of loved ones? They are used as reminders. Do we consider them gods just because we like to look at the photo from time to time? Nope. They are just reminders. It's the same with religious icons…

In the LDS visitor's center in Salt Lake City is a great big statue of Jesus with some benches in front. I sat down and the statue began speaking. I got up and walked away. No thanks. I'm not listening to a talking statue. Does this mean Mormons worship a statue? No. But it means they have no business criticizing Catholics just because they, too, have statues in their churches.

The single greatest thing that is wrong with religions is that they, all of them, are man made. We are imperfect. So are our religions.

I heaven we will find, finally, that there are no religious requirements at all. How very refreshing that will be.

I agree on multiple points. Images can inspire us - and not necessarily be worshipped (though having white hippy handsome Jesus paintings in places of worship is suspect). The Christus & recording in the SLC visitors center is weird - & definitely looks like idol worship.

How refreshing that you see no religious requirements refreshing! I feel similarly.

You’ve probably heard the story of an Angel giving a tour of the different parts of Heaven. The Angel described each place until they came to an area & asked everyone to please be quiet as they passed this area. Once out of that area, someone asked, “Why did you want us quiet back there?” The Angel responded, “That’s the Mormons - they think they’re the only ones here.”

It seems that a major purpose of life is to become more aware of ourselves & others - to love better. Inner awareness is awareness and being connected to God, who connects us all. And that’s how we live the greatest commandments.

Angels are a race of being apart. They existed before the creation, with God, to do His (or Her) bidding. They are messengers as most of us will agree.

In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia. Here is a bit of information that I truly believe in.

Human souls are born to a higher plane in the Earth's heavens. They prepare for the journey. Then, when the time is right, they descend to the physical Earth and are born as babies. This is the way it is. The object of all this? Easy. Our God given goal is to grow and to achieve, not knowledge, but wisdom. Then when we have learned all the Earth can teach we are released. This is exactly what is meant when Christians talk of achieving perfection, resurrection and redemption and all that. Any Christian who wants to know more need only study mystical Judaism. It's all there. BTY Jesus' temporal family were all members of the Essenes. They were the "knowers" of those times.

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden). In the Earth's heavens we cannoe meet and overcome adversity. Only here on Earth is that possible. This is why incarnations are necessary. We live thousands of lives. We are of all races, gay and straight, short and tall, normal or disfigured, sick or healthy and all of the other variations. From each we learn. But the knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle.

There is much more to this story. The trouble with Christianity is that it gives us a present and a future but about our origins and past it says nothing.... nothing at all. This is OK for junior souls. It is not ok for those who have achieved. And, I might add. those among humanity who were prophets did know all this. They just keep it quiet.

[Thinker]

…In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia...

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden)…
… knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle…

Good thoughts.
Some say wisdom = healed pain, & I’d add that it’s ability to apply knowledge to love God/truth & others as well as ourselves.

I think that being expelled from the garden of Eden represents being able to SEE not just ignorant bliss but good & evil.

Maybe trying to force religion (ie missionaries proselytizing) is indeed futile, but it depends on the goal. It’s worked for some purposes (ie controlling people in ways government can’t, & it may develop some good habits early on of not smoking/not drinking etc.). Religion is herd mentality - does the thinking for you, & practically pushes you along without much effort on your part, so it’s the wide more popular gait…

• “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7

Missionary work is so based on herd mentality! How many people would go door to door, stating their own unique beliefs that went against all group thought? Not saying mission work is all bad, but it’s good to recognize how counter it is to free thought & thus free will.

The narrow way or strait gate may be less common because it involves more inner work that many of us actively avoid & it is discouraged by religious leaders & therapists who need us to feel reliant on them. The idea that relatively few find this way seems true…Ie:

• “Unlike other theories of development such as Erikson's stages of psychosocial development, it is not assumed that even a majority of people progress through all levels [of Positive Disintegration].
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration

[Ymarsakar]

To me thr missionaries did a great job respecting my free will. But they would be given directives to preach something they dont understand by the stake president and make a mistake.

One time the stake president was telling people to reread the book of mormon. To focus on christ or such teachings. Most people were focusing on school or their careers in 2018.

So i had just finished reading bom in 2017 ish and was reading the d n c and 1st enoch.

So they and some other elders q people come to my house saying they wanted to share a bom q. U know motivating people to read.

I said i had just got done reading the entire bom and it was time to focus on enoch. They kept trying to make me compromise my integrity and promise to devote more time to the bom. The spirit in me was telling me to resist these humans as they had no clue what my reading order should be. Nor did they even care they simply acted upon the spirit of contention to force feed what they were told to the members. Irregardless of individual fate or detail. They were not listening. Then my driver to church piped up with a louder than normal voice and said as if annoyed that i should just dp as the missionaries and stake p directed.

These people were not even sharing any bom quote to begin with. They brought the spirit of strife with them.

Later on i told god to get rid of these missionaries and stop them from interfering with me. I had almost zero contact from them until they got shuffled out. And the next ones. And the next ones.

They were trying to get between me and the godhead s instructions to read 1st enoch. I had important homework to do and mortals were interfering. So they went bye bye. I cannot remember anyone directly telling me to reread bom after that. I did some bible divinations and ended up talking about ether 8 in fast testimony. That was the fruit of me rereading all right. I was not going to reread all of it just the stuff god highlights.

I never told them to not contact me. This manifests in ways people wont see if they dont get the spirit.

This is an example of how people dont understand how divine authority and the spirit works. They jist do a cookie cutter ministering visit or obey the stake president and now think they are some kind of elder authority.

In truth i held far more authority than they had. Difference is i dont bother telling people about it.

I dont bother complaining to the bishop or stake p. I speak directly to the godhead for redress of grievances. Why? Cause it works.

I think what differs me from many lds who were brought up in lds communities is that my examples were joseph smith and brigham young. I like to start in chronokogical order so refused to read recent president talks until i had read most of the data on the first 2. And then3 and plural marriage changes. Not any recent lds brethren. That waz perhaps a huge difference. A 1857 saint vs a 2000 saint.

…In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia...

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden)…
… knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle…

Good thoughts.
Some say wisdom = healed pain, & I’d add that it’s ability to apply knowledge to love God/truth & others as well as ourselves.

I agree with the implication that being expelled from the garden of Eden represents being able to SEE not just ignorant bliss but good & evil.

Maybe trying to force religion (ie missionaries proselytizing) is indeed futile, but it depends on the goal. It’s worked for some purposes (ie controlling people in ways government can’t, & it may develop some good habits early on of not smoking/not drinking etc.). Religion is herd mentality - does the thinking for you, & practically pushes you along without much effort on your part, so it’s the wide more popular gait…

• “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7

Missionary work is so based on herd mentality! How many people would go door to door, stating their own unique beliefs that went against all group thought? Not saying mission work is all bad, but it’s good to recognize how counter it is to free thought & thus free will.

[Cruiserdude]

To me thr missionaries did a great job respecting my free will. But they would be given directives to preach something they dont understand by the stake president and make a mistake.

One time the stake president was telling people to reread the book of mormon. To focus on christ or such teachings. Most people were focusing on school or their careers in 2018.

So i had just finished reading bom in 2017 ish and was reading the d n c and 1st enoch.

So they and some other elders q people come to my house saying they wanted to share a bom q. U know motivating people to read.

I said i had just got done reading the entire bom and it was time to focus on enoch. They kept trying to make me compromise my integrity and promise to devote more time to the bom. The spirit in me was telling me to resist these humans as they had no clue what my reading order should be. Nor did they even care they simply acted upon the spirit of contention to force feed what they were told to the members. Irregardless of individual fate or detail. They were not listening. Then my driver to church piped up with a louder than normal voice and said as if annoyed that i should just dp as the missionaries and stake p directed.

These people were not even sharing any bom quote to begin with. They brought the spirit of strife with them.

Later on i told god to get rid of these missionaries and stop them from interfering with me. I had almost zero contact from them until they got shuffled out. And the next ones. And the next ones.

They were trying to get between me and the godhead s instructions to read 1st enoch. I had important homework to do and mortals were interfering. So they went bye bye. I cannot remember anyone directly telling me to reread bom after that. I did some bible divinations and ended up talking about ether 8 in fast testimony. That was the fruit of me rereading all right. I was not going to reread all of it just the stuff god highlights.

I never told them to not contact me. This manifests in ways people wont see if they dont get the spirit.

This is an example of how people dont understand how divine authority and the spirit works. They jist do a cookie cutter ministering visit or obey the stake president and now think they are some kind of elder authority.

In truth i held far more authority than they had. Difference is i dont bother telling people about it.

I dont bother complaining to the bishop or stake p. I speak directly to the godhead for redress of grievances. Why? Cause it works.

I think what differs me from many lds who were brought up in lds communities is that my examples were joseph smith and brigham young. Not any recent lds brethren. That waz perhaps a huge difference. A 1857 saint vs a 2000 saint.

…In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia...

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden)…
… knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle…

Good thoughts.
Some say wisdom = healed pain, & I’d add that it’s ability to apply knowledge to love God/truth & others as well as ourselves.

I agree with the implication that being expelled from the garden of Eden represents being able to SEE not just ignorant bliss but good & evil.

Maybe trying to force religion (ie missionaries proselytizing) is indeed futile, but it depends on the goal. It’s worked for some purposes (ie controlling people in ways government can’t, & it may develop some good habits early on of not smoking/not drinking etc.). Religion is herd mentality - does the thinking for you, & practically pushes you along without much effort on your part, so it’s the wide more popular gait…

• “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7

Missionary work is so based on herd mentality! How many people would go door to door, stating their own unique beliefs that went against all group thought? Not saying mission work is all bad, but it’s good to recognize how counter it is to free thought & thus free will.

That's a different and unique perspective and it really helped me see a little bigger part of the picture thanks for sharing that hermano

[Ymarsakar]

Yw

At the time i was confused why people were acting like that. Now i know it was spirits of satan pranking me. Cause they saw me understand 1st enoch. Dna modification.

Dna waxxine? Lol. I doubt if anyone understood what the watchers did to human dna would be taking any mrna.

Satans were too weak to do much at that time.

To me thr missionaries did a great job respecting my free will. But they would be given directives to preach something they dont understand by the stake president and make a mistake.

One time the stake president was telling people to reread the book of mormon. To focus on christ or such teachings. Most people were focusing on school or their careers in 2018.

So i had just finished reading bom in 2017 ish and was reading the d n c and 1st enoch.

So they and some other elders q people come to my house saying they wanted to share a bom q. U know motivating people to read.

I said i had just got done reading the entire bom and it was time to focus on enoch. They kept trying to make me compromise my integrity and promise to devote more time to the bom. The spirit in me was telling me to resist these humans as they had no clue what my reading order should be. Nor did they even care they simply acted upon the spirit of contention to force feed what they were told to the members. Irregardless of individual fate or detail. They were not listening. Then my driver to church piped up with a louder than normal voice and said as if annoyed that i should just dp as the missionaries and stake p directed.

These people were not even sharing any bom quote to begin with. They brought the spirit of strife with them.

Later on i told god to get rid of these missionaries and stop them from interfering with me. I had almost zero contact from them until they got shuffled out. And the next ones. And the next ones.

They were trying to get between me and the godhead s instructions to read 1st enoch. I had important homework to do and mortals were interfering. So they went bye bye. I cannot remember anyone directly telling me to reread bom after that. I did some bible divinations and ended up talking about ether 8 in fast testimony. That was the fruit of me rereading all right. I was not going to reread all of it just the stuff god highlights.

I never told them to not contact me. This manifests in ways people wont see if they dont get the spirit.

This is an example of how people dont understand how divine authority and the spirit works. They jist do a cookie cutter ministering visit or obey the stake president and now think they are some kind of elder authority.

In truth i held far more authority than they had. Difference is i dont bother telling people about it.

I dont bother complaining to the bishop or stake p. I speak directly to the godhead for redress of grievances. Why? Cause it works.

I think what differs me from many lds who were brought up in lds communities is that my examples were joseph smith and brigham young. Not any recent lds brethren. That waz perhaps a huge difference. A 1857 saint vs a 2000 saint.

Good thoughts.
Some say wisdom = healed pain, & I’d add that it’s ability to apply knowledge to love God/truth & others as well as ourselves.

I agree with the implication that being expelled from the garden of Eden represents being able to SEE not just ignorant bliss but good & evil.

Maybe trying to force religion (ie missionaries proselytizing) is indeed futile, but it depends on the goal. It’s worked for some purposes (ie controlling people in ways government can’t, & it may develop some good habits early on of not smoking/not drinking etc.). Religion is herd mentality - does the thinking for you, & practically pushes you along without much effort on your part, so it’s the wide more popular gait…

• “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7

Missionary work is so based on herd mentality! How many people would go door to door, stating their own unique beliefs that went against all group thought? Not saying mission work is all bad, but it’s good to recognize how counter it is to free thought & thus free will.

That's a different and unique perspective and it really helped me see a little bigger part of the picture thanks for sharing that hermano

[varnaj42]

…In any given time, most of humanity is very spiritually immature. They need what religions offer. This is why they endure over the millennia...

Why do arguments between devotees persist? Simply because there are so many levels of maturity in humanity. Most of us are relatively new. Some of us are elders. Those who know are usually found to live solitary lives. They work in private. They understand the futility of forcing religions on people.

We, all of us, are born to spirit. We descend to Earth (this is told in the metaphor of being expelled from the garden)…
… knowledge is not the goal. What is necessary is the wisdom that derives from application of that knowledge. This, not mere beliefs, is what frees us from the cycle…

Good thoughts.
Some say wisdom = healed pain, & I’d add that it’s ability to apply knowledge to love God/truth & others as well as ourselves.

I think that being expelled from the garden of Eden represents being able to SEE not just ignorant bliss but good & evil.

Maybe trying to force religion (ie missionaries proselytizing) is indeed futile, but it depends on the goal. It’s worked for some purposes (ie controlling people in ways government can’t, & it may develop some good habits early on of not smoking/not drinking etc.). Religion is herd mentality - does the thinking for you, & practically pushes you along without much effort on your part, so it’s the wide more popular gait…

• “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7

Missionary work is so based on herd mentality! How many people would go door to door, stating their own unique beliefs that went against all group thought? Not saying mission work is all bad, but it’s good to recognize how counter it is to free thought & thus free will.

The narrow way or strait gate may be less common because it involves more inner work that many of us actively avoid & it is discouraged by religious leaders & therapists who need us to feel reliant on them. The idea that relatively few find this way seems true…Ie:

• “Unlike other theories of development such as Erikson's stages of psychosocial development, it is not assumed that even a majority of people progress through all levels [of Positive Disintegration].
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration

I prefer to find God in my own way. I need not priests and doctrines.

[Thinker]

…One time the stake president was telling people to reread the book of mormon. ..

So i had just finished reading bom in 2017 ish and was reading the d n c and 1st enoch.

So they and some other elders q people come to my house saying they wanted to share a bom q. U know motivating people to read.

I said i had just got done reading the entire bom and it was time to focus on enoch. They kept trying to make me compromise my integrity and promise to devote more time to the bom. The spirit in me was telling me to resist these humans as they had no clue what my reading order should be. Nor did they even care they simply acted upon the spirit of contention to force feed what they were told to the members. Irregardless of individual fate or detail. They were not listening. Then my driver to church piped up with a louder than normal voice and said as if annoyed that i should just dp as the missionaries and stake p directed.

These people were not even sharing any bom quote to begin with. They brought the spirit of strife with them.

Later on i told god to get rid of these missionaries and stop them from interfering with me. I had almost zero contact from them until they got shuffled out. And the next ones. And the next ones.

They were trying to get between me and the godhead s instructions to read 1st enoch. I had important homework to do and mortals were interfering. So they went bye bye. I cannot remember anyone directly telling me to reread bom after that. I did some bible divinations and ended up talking about ether 8 in fast testimony. That was the fruit of me rereading all right. I was not going to reread all of it just the stuff god highlights.

I never told them to not contact me. This manifests in ways people wont see if they dont get the spirit.

This is an example of how people dont understand how divine authority and the spirit works. They jist do a cookie cutter ministering visit or obey the stake president and now think they are some kind of elder authority.

In truth i held far more authority than they had. ..

Cookie cutter ministering - that sums up a lot. Thank God, that God does not deal with us in such a robotic way!

[Thinker]

...The narrow way or strait gate may be less common because it involves more inner work that many of us actively avoid & it is discouraged by religious leaders & therapists who need us to feel reliant on them. The idea that relatively few find this way seems true…Ie:

• “Unlike other theories of development such as Erikson's stages of psychosocial development, it is not assumed that even a majority of people progress through all levels [of Positive Disintegration].
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration

I prefer to find God in my own way. I need not priests and doctrines.

I feel similarly, though I appreciate truth & help wherever I can find it.

[varnaj42]

...The narrow way or strait gate may be less common because it involves more inner work that many of us actively avoid & it is discouraged by religious leaders & therapists who need us to feel reliant on them. The idea that relatively few find this way seems true…Ie:

• “Unlike other theories of development such as Erikson's stages of psychosocial development, it is not assumed that even a majority of people progress through all levels [of Positive Disintegration].
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration

I prefer to find God in my own way. I need not priests and doctrines.

I feel similarly, though I appreciate truth & help wherever I can find it.

Me too. I am open to all voices.... but beholden to none.

[Thinker]

Me too. I am open to all voices.... but beholden to none.

I am open to many - or all - voices too - but maybe I need to be like a sound system & lower some while raising others. In fact, I think sanity demands we be selective. How do you choose which thoughts you focus on?

[Ymarsakar]

I dont have thoughts until i work at it. Makes things easier.

I am aware that before enlightenment i and others have this unstoppable stream of consciousness. The higher the iq the more stuff. Extra more if woman.

Now a days i dont actually have thoughts of my own.

Me too. I am open to all voices.... but beholden to none.

I am open to many - or all - voices too - but maybe I need to be like a sound system & lower some while raising others. In fact, I think sanity demands we be selective. How do you choose which thoughts you focus on?

[varnaj42]

Me too. I am open to all voices.... but beholden to none.

I am open to many - or all - voices too - but maybe I need to be like a sound system & lower some while raising others. In fact, I think sanity demands we be selective. How do you choose which thoughts you focus on?

Creation is not something that happened only once, then stopped. No. Once the process began it became the normal, continual process. New human souls are born to the Earth's heavens all the time as the elders, those who have finally gained wisdom, are freed from the cycle of birth and re-birth. This means that at any given time we humans on Earth are of greatly differing spiritual ages. No. We are not all beginners nor are at the same points or understanding. indeed each of us has differing needs. This is the reason that are so many different religions.

How do we decide on which voice to listen to? That is what prayer is for. Through this series of requests we receive guidances suited to our particular station in life. For instance, we know perfectly well that some need to be told "obey the commandments or suffer the consequences". Others though know in the first place that cooperating with the Will of God is the proper thing to do. They need no admonishments, no threats of retribution. They are knowers. In these two examples we discover two men who are of different spiritual ages. One is very young. The other is the elder. This disparity is the reason Earthly religions persist. They are always needed because there are always junior, beginner souls waiting to begin their journeys.

In the LDS church there exists a mechanism through which a person can advance spiritually much faster than he or she might if they were in some other faith. This is what the series of ordinances is all about. It is a worthy path but not one that is essential. If a man chooses to advance the slower way he may do so. God is in no hurry.

[Ymarsakar]

Me too. I am open to all voices.... but beholden to none.

I am open to many - or all - voices too - but maybe I need to be like a sound system & lower some while raising others. In fact, I think sanity demands we be selective. How do you choose which thoughts you focus on?

Creation is not something that happened only once, then stopped. No. Once the process began it became the normal, continual process. New human souls are born to the Earth's heavens all the time as the elders, those who have finally gained wisdom, are freed from the cycle of birth and re-birth. This means that at any given time we humans on Earth are of greatly differing spiritual ages. No. We are not all beginners nor are at the same points or understanding. indeed each of us has differing needs. This is the reason that are so many different religions.

How do we decide on which voice to listen to? That is what prayer is for. Through this series of requests we receive guidances suited to our particular station in life. For instance, we know perfectly well that some need to be told "obey the commandments or suffer the consequences". Others though know in the first place that cooperating with the Will of God is the proper thing to do. They need no admonishments, no threats of retribution. They are knowers. In these two examples we discover two men who are of different spiritual ages. One is very young. The other is the elder. This disparity is the reason Earthly religions persist. They are always needed because there are always junior, beginner souls waiting to begin their journeys.

In the LDS church there exists a mechanism through which a person can advance spiritually much faster than he or she might if they were in some other faith. This is what the series of ordinances is all about. It is a worthy path but not one that is essential. If a man chooses to advance the slower way he may do so. God is in no hurry.

I sense a spirit of truth here.

[Thinker]

I dont have thoughts until i work at it. Makes things easier.

I am aware that before enlightenment i and others have this unstoppable stream of consciousness. The higher the iq the more stuff. Extra more if woman.

Now a days i dont actually have thoughts of my own.

I don’t believe that.
Maybe, assuming you are a guy, you just hang out mostly in your mental “nothing box.”
https://youtu.be/SZ6mVumHY9I