My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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Arm Chair Quarterback
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Arm Chair Quarterback »

You can't rule out as an option that the restoration was a fraud and Joseph Smith was using his own best guess as where to move to next. They went where they could get cheap land and create an economic empire. It took 200 years, but 160 billion dollars later, it's working out swell. That was a bit harsh, but you still can't rule out the man-made option. It has to be one of the choices in this discussion and so far it's not. So here it as, as an option.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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ransomme wrote: June 1st, 2023, 9:10 am
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 8:03 am ...
Help me understand from where you are coming. I'm never quite sure.

You just countered something that I did not say, twice in a row.
Since you are using examples and quoting other people who are not here and not addressing this specific question at times, I am addressing the root of these issues.

I explained the pattern in which nations and indivdiuals are condemned, meaning the word used in scripture. Maybe you don't use it because you either don't understand what this actually means or you have a different idea of what is going on and using it as a mere example to bolster your personal position. I don't have to disagree or agree with your personal position, I just have to explain what this patterning behind scriptural condemnation is.

This pattern is seen in Noah and Jeremiah, to name two episodes that come off my mind.

First you get a period of some problem that occurs which is noticed by Heaven .Heaven then sends some type of messenger, like Noah or Jeremiah, to alert the kings and leaders and people to repent or else. Then "else" happens. But this time period can be very lengthy. IT was 100+ years in Noah's days between first warning and the Flood. In Jeremiah's days, it was quite a number of decades.

Also at the time, many killed people for being false prophets, because they said that what they spoke of did not happen. Well given how the Divine sees linear time, if a prophet says something and it happens 15 years later, but they killed him 5 years later because they got impatient, well well. They just made it harder on themselves with the blood of a saint. They shot the messenger too soon.

There are other versions of this, like Soddom's angels (half angels) or Balam's curses.

You seem to be using certain phrases from scripture to refer to the LDS corporation being under judgment or perhaps some other group related to it, like America. However, this doesn't fit the pattern unless you can show who or what the messengers were, how long they were warned, and whether they understood the message and refused to repent. I cannot agree with looking at the end result and say that this is due to divine condemnation. Bad results can happen due to any number of factors, including demons, satans, angels, and human errors.

To reduce it to a more easily understandable logick. If the Divine heavens had condemned the LDS corporation and all its members, then the holy spirit would be taken away. However, the holy spirit was working perfectly well in 2020 when people prayed about the MRNA. Now after taking the MRNA< maybe you are now under condemnation but that is not the entire corporation. That is just those who chose 1 over 2.

So this is equivalent to you charging someone with a crime, but then saying you didn't say anything about him being a murderer or killing x y z. True, you just charged them with the crime of manslaughter, you did not technically say that they were a murderer or killed x y z.

The charge, itself, explains the penalties and sins under condemnation. If you are charging a nation, a people, or a corporation with some divine sin, then there is a legal requirement to provide the pattern/framework. At least, if you are serious about this charge.

Otherwise, it is just your personal opinion, and it is not the view of scripture, no matter the examples you use. Scripture in this context can be taken to be precedent law that lawyers use to bolster their cases. Because this case was like the other case, then the judge should rule in our favor, is the reasoning. But I look at the people charged with x in this modern time era, and much of it does not match the scriptural ancient patterns. The penalties don't match. Spiritual gifts and the holy spirit have not been taken from them. The time period grace does not match, not enough time has passed. And the messenger that is supposed to alert the guilty/condemned of their charge, is unknown or does not exist yet.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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Lynn's large quote sounded like some human trying to interpret what a god is thinking.

This removed D C 5 sounds closer to what a god might be saying thinking.

This "generation" refers to every adult mortal in USA at the time. And they definitely failed CW1.

And did not the sword of justice fall on the North and the South in 1860-1864?

To use the pattern I described to Ransome, Joseph Smith was the messenger/prophet to the nation regathering Judah, USA.

USA was under the grip of satans and religious impurity. The generation in the USA failed the tests, and judgment began to commence. 30 years later.

Generally more than one messenger is sent. Lincoln and Joseph both were for peace and against institution of slavery. Although Lincoln preferred to compromise for the sake of peace, but he could not stop the Judgment. Brown may have been another messenger, a more fanatical one even.

One has to recall that Missouri wasn't just ethnically cleansing the saints, Judah, and mormons. They were ethnically cleansing free settlements in Kansas too.

To interpret the scriptures to be referring to the saints under condemnation, this would be incorrect, as it would also mean the Amish/Quakers in Kansas were also under condemnation... for refusing to obey the institution of slavery. That is in no way correct.

Telavian wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:03 am These verses were in the 1833 Book Of Commandments, but were removed in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants.

D&C 5:

And thus, if the people of this generation harden not their hearts, I will work a reformation among them, and I will put down all lyings, and deceivings, and priestcrafts, and envyings, and strifes, and idolatries, and sorceries, and all manner of iniquities, and I will establish my church, (yea even the church which was taught by my disciples), like unto the church which was taught by my disciples in the days of old.

And now if this generation do harden their hearts against my words , behold I will deliver them up unto Satan, for he reigneth and hath much power at this time, for he hath got great hold upon the hearts of the people of this generation: and not far from the iniquities of Sodom and Gomorrah, do they come at this time: and behold the sword of justice hangeth over their heads, and if they persist in the hardness of their hearts, the time cometh that it must fall upon them.
Last edited by Ymarsakar on June 1st, 2023, 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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Niemand wrote: June 1st, 2023, 3:43 pm Am I the only one who sees the irony in the name "Liberty Jail"? It's an oxymoron at least.
January 6, the threats to our democracy and liberty come from these protesters and patriots. We must jail them for their own good, just like the unwaxed are a danger to us.

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FrankOne
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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a thorough study of Joseph Smith's words reveals that many things that he prophesied did not occur. Specific prophecies that couldn't be explained away.

why?

because he was a man. A prophet , yet a man. He misunderstood out of his own bias or ? but...he did make mistakes and some of them were big ones.

wearing rose colored glasses while looking at leaders only cause a person to fall into blue holes.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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OCDMOM wrote: June 1st, 2023, 12:56 pm They built the Temples there so they could fulfill their ordinances before they were driven to the west.
Did they finish the Nauvoo temple in the allotted time given by the Lord?

What did the Lord say would be the consequence of them not doing so?

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: June 1st, 2023, 3:48 pm You can't rule out as an option that the restoration was a fraud and Joseph Smith was using his own best guess as where to move to next. They went where they could get cheap land and create an economic empire. It took 200 years, but 160 billion dollars later, it's working out swell. That was a bit harsh, but you still can't rule out the man-made option. It has to be one of the choices in this discussion and so far it's not. So here it as, as an option.
The Holy Spirit already ruled that out.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Ymarsakar »

It was very religious although your point is valid. It was the religion of satans vs the religion of the christ

Southern Baptists supported the institution, remember. It was very religious. The religion of satan was gaining followers and many so called priests and leaders were following this modern day gadiaton wave.
gkearney wrote: June 1st, 2023, 11:35 am Speaking to the troubles in Missouri at that time it is important to remember that the saint were caught up the greatest and most explosive issue of the day in the United States, that of slavery. In many and perhaps most case the issue was that the Latter-day Saints were non-slave owning northers coming into a salve hold ing state right at the time that the bleeding Kansas events were starting up.

So religion played a secondary role to that of slavery and abolition. It would only be a short time later that the Missourians would ride into Lawrence, Kansas burn the town to the ground kill the men rape and pillage at will. Lawrence was a town settled by abolitionist New Englander who followed the very mainstream United Church of Christ (Congregationalist) so it really wasn't so much an issue of religion.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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You would need to be a psi user like the prophets or experience these roles, to understand more of how it works.

But generally speaking it is not so easy for a person to understand what is being downloaded into their heads. Also predictions, guesstimates, and prophecies are different things.

As I have come to understand it, a "true prophecy" is not a prediction. IT is made to happen.

There were many prophecies given in the bible, that did not happen simply because the person that received it heeded the warnings. IF you don't repent, then x happens. Well if you do repent, then x does not happen.
FrankOne wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:15 pm a thorough study of Joseph Smith's words reveals that many things that he prophesied did not occur. Specific prophecies that couldn't be explained away.

why?

because he was a man. A prophet , yet a man. He misunderstood out of his own bias or ? but...he did make mistakes and some of them were big ones.

wearing rose colored glasses while looking at leaders only cause a person to fall into blue holes.

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FrankOne
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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understanding 'how it works' isn't something for the faint of heart.
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:25 pm You would need to be a psi user like the prophets or experience these roles, to understand more of how it works.

But generally speaking it is not so easy for a person to understand what is being downloaded into their heads. Also predictions, guesstimates, and prophecies are different things.

As I have come to understand it, a "true prophecy" is not a prediction. IT is made to happen.

There were many prophecies given in the bible, that did not happen simply because the person that received it heeded the warnings. IF you don't repent, then x happens. Well if you do repent, then x does not happen.
FrankOne wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:15 pm a thorough study of Joseph Smith's words reveals that many things that he prophesied did not occur. Specific prophecies that couldn't be explained away.

why?

because he was a man. A prophet , yet a man. He misunderstood out of his own bias or ? but...he did make mistakes and some of them were big ones.

wearing rose colored glasses while looking at leaders only cause a person to fall into blue holes.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Ymarsakar »

You just have to desire it enough and pass the divine exams. It is not that hard ; )

The hardest part is probably spending 10-30 years online talking to mortals who think you are a nut jub. Nobody knows whether they are right until things happen or they don't. Jeremiah knew that Israel would suffer, but often times these people are quite tortured and don't want to speak what is coming out of their mouths. Jeremiah didn't want to see mothers starving and eating their kids. But that's what happened and what he saw. So not only does he get to face the lashback from the public calling him a false prophet, nothing happened yet, our nation of America is great. We are exceptional. We are blessed by God. Nobody can take us down, your predictions are foolishness Ymar.

Well, that was in 2015-2019. Then 2020 happened.
FrankOne wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:27 pm understanding 'how it works' isn't something for the faint of heart.
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:25 pm You would need to be a psi user like the prophets or experience these roles, to understand more of how it works.

But generally speaking it is not so easy for a person to understand what is being downloaded into their heads. Also predictions, guesstimates, and prophecies are different things.

As I have come to understand it, a "true prophecy" is not a prediction. IT is made to happen.

There were many prophecies given in the bible, that did not happen simply because the person that received it heeded the warnings. IF you don't repent, then x happens. Well if you do repent, then x does not happen.
FrankOne wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:15 pm a thorough study of Joseph Smith's words reveals that many things that he prophesied did not occur. Specific prophecies that couldn't be explained away.

why?

because he was a man. A prophet , yet a man. He misunderstood out of his own bias or ? but...he did make mistakes and some of them were big ones.

wearing rose colored glasses while looking at leaders only cause a person to fall into blue holes.
Last edited by Ymarsakar on June 1st, 2023, 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FrankOne
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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or the simple path. Meditate and pray for a few years with sincerity.
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:36 pm You just have to desire it enough and pass the divine exams. It is not that hard ; )

The hardest part is probably spending 10-30 years online talking to mortals who think you are a nut jub.
FrankOne wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:27 pm understanding 'how it works' isn't something for the faint of heart.
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:25 pm You would need to be a psi user like the prophets or experience these roles, to understand more of how it works.

But generally speaking it is not so easy for a person to understand what is being downloaded into their heads. Also predictions, guesstimates, and prophecies are different things.

As I have come to understand it, a "true prophecy" is not a prediction. IT is made to happen.

There were many prophecies given in the bible, that did not happen simply because the person that received it heeded the warnings. IF you don't repent, then x happens. Well if you do repent, then x does not happen.


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ransomme
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by ransomme »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 5:54 pm
ransomme wrote: June 1st, 2023, 9:10 am
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 8:03 am ...
Help me understand from where you are coming. I'm never quite sure.

You just countered something that I did not say, twice in a row.
Since you are using examples and quoting other people who are not here and not addressing this specific question at times, I am addressing the root of these issues.

I explained the pattern in which nations and indivdiuals are condemned, meaning the word used in scripture. Maybe you don't use it because you either don't understand what this actually means or you have a different idea of what is going on and using it as a mere example to bolster your personal position. I don't have to disagree or agree with your personal position, I just have to explain what this patterning behind scriptural condemnation is.

This pattern is seen in Noah and Jeremiah, to name two episodes that come off my mind.

First you get a period of some problem that occurs which is noticed by Heaven .Heaven then sends some type of messenger, like Noah or Jeremiah, to alert the kings and leaders and people to repent or else. Then "else" happens. But this time period can be very lengthy. IT was 100+ years in Noah's days between first warning and the Flood. In Jeremiah's days, it was quite a number of decades.

Also at the time, many killed people for being false prophets, because they said that what they spoke of did not happen. Well given how the Divine sees linear time, if a prophet says something and it happens 15 years later, but they killed him 5 years later because they got impatient, well well. They just made it harder on themselves with the blood of a saint. They shot the messenger too soon.

There are other versions of this, like Soddom's angels (half angels) or Balam's curses.

You seem to be using certain phrases from scripture to refer to the LDS corporation being under judgment or perhaps some other group related to it, like America. However, this doesn't fit the pattern unless you can show who or what the messengers were, how long they were warned, and whether they understood the message and refused to repent. I cannot agree with looking at the end result and say that this is due to divine condemnation. Bad results can happen due to any number of factors, including demons, satans, angels, and human errors.

To reduce it to a more easily understandable logick. If the Divine heavens had condemned the LDS corporation and all its members, then the holy spirit would be taken away. However, the holy spirit was working perfectly well in 2020 when people prayed about the MRNA. Now after taking the MRNA< maybe you are now under condemnation but that is not the entire corporation. That is just those who chose 1 over 2.

So this is equivalent to you charging someone with a crime, but then saying you didn't say anything about him being a murderer or killing x y z. True, you just charged them with the crime of manslaughter, you did not technically say that they were a murderer or killed x y z.

The charge, itself, explains the penalties and sins under condemnation. If you are charging a nation, a people, or a corporation with some divine sin, then there is a legal requirement to provide the pattern/framework. At least, if you are serious about this charge.

Otherwise, it is just your personal opinion, and it is not the view of scripture, no matter the examples you use. Scripture in this context can be taken to be precedent law that lawyers use to bolster their cases. Because this case was like the other case, then the judge should rule in our favor, is the reasoning. But I look at the people charged with x in this modern time era, and much of it does not match the scriptural ancient patterns. The penalties don't match. Spiritual gifts and the holy spirit have not been taken from them. The time period grace does not match, not enough time has passed. And the messenger that is supposed to alert the guilty/condemned of their charge, is unknown or does not exist yet.
One problem, you seem to be taking about destruction/judgement (like the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Babylon sacking Jerusalem, etc).

Condemnation is used 60 times in our scriptures. And there are two main meanings.
* an accusation and witness (against)
* Spiritual death, not progressing spiritually
To be concerned is to be under bondage. Here are examples:

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Corinthians 3
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Helaman 14
19 Therefore repent ye, repent ye, lest by knowing these things and not doing them ye shall suffer yourselves to come under condemnation, and ye are brought down unto this second death.

3 Nephi's 26
10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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InfoWarrior82 wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:19 pm
OCDMOM wrote: June 1st, 2023, 12:56 pm They built the Temples there so they could fulfill their ordinances before they were driven to the west.
Did they finish the Nauvoo temple in the allotted time given by the Lord?

What did the Lord say would be the consequence of them not doing so?
This^^^
Taught by the corp my whole life
They got T ordainaces just in nick of time - to "protect"them for the journey west -- driven out...
Last edited by TwochurchesOnly on June 2nd, 2023, 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Good & Global
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

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Many church sites are not as inspiring as one is led to believe. I think that is in part due to the massive religious marketing that mormons receive breaking down with small concentrated doses of reality.

In fact many flaws in church history became apparent at these places without rose colored glasses offered from the visitor center gift shop. If you have thoughts you could share them. It might be nice to know before spending all that money and putting so much undue pressure on themselves and crazy high expectations in the mission field.

Good & Global
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Good & Global »

TwochurchesOnly wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 3:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:19 pm
OCDMOM wrote: June 1st, 2023, 12:56 pm They built the Temples there so they could fulfill their ordinances before they were driven to the west.
Did they finish the Nauvoo temple in the allotted time given by the Lord?

What did the Lord say would be the consequence of them not doing so?
This^^^
Taught by the corp my whole life
They got T ordainaces just in nick if time - to "protect"them for the journey west -- driven out...
These ordinances did not protect them from the avarice of opportunists in the church nor the need to boil drinking water. In fact many of their deaths can be attributable to these two factors.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Good & Global wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 3:33 am
TwochurchesOnly wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 3:28 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: June 1st, 2023, 6:19 pm

Did they finish the Nauvoo temple in the allotted time given by the Lord?

What did the Lord say would be the consequence of them not doing so?
This^^^
Taught by the corp my whole life
They got T ordainaces just in nick if time - to "protect"them for the journey west -- driven out...
These ordinances did not protect them from the avarice of opportunists in the church nor the need to boil drinking water. In fact many of their deaths can be attributable to these two factors.


🎯
Cuz "ordainaces"not of God

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ransomme
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by ransomme »

Niemand wrote: June 1st, 2023, 3:43 pm Am I the only one who sees the irony in the name "Liberty Jail"? It's an oxymoron at least.
It fits perfectly, Freedom is Slavery 😜

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MikeMaillet
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by MikeMaillet »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 7:32 am This passage was Mormon talking about his own civilization, not the later civilizations.
ransomme wrote: June 1st, 2023, 5:13 am Because the Church was under condemnation.

For an example, Mormon 1
13 But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people. 14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief. 15 And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus. 16 And I did endeavor to preach unto this people, but my mouth was shut, and I was forbidden that I should preach unto them; for behold they had wilfully rebelled against their God; and the beloved disciples were taken away out of the land, because of their iniquity.
The specific details might refer to a past event but the Book of Mormon writers were Hebrews and I believe that they wrote in the same manner as the other Hebrew Prophets, using types to prophecy future, latter-day events.

3 Nephi 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.
4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father athey shall go forth unto the Gentiles.
5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things.


All of the Hebrew Prophets wrote about near-future events (for them) and wrote in a way that the prophecies would also apply to the Gentiles, us. The Book of Mormon Prophets were no different.

Mike

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Ymarsakar
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Ymarsakar »

That does not mean people here who try their hand at it are prophets.

This habit of using scripture as a way to put words into thr mouths of god and prophets is all too common a sight amongst religion adherents.

If they had an experience they would not need to quote a manual.
MikeMaillet wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 12:12 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 7:32 am This passage was Mormon talking about his own civilization, not the later civilizations.
ransomme wrote: June 1st, 2023, 5:13 am Because the Church was under condemnation.

For an example, Mormon 1
13 But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people. 14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief. 15 And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus. 16 And I did endeavor to preach unto this people, but my mouth was shut, and I was forbidden that I should preach unto them; for behold they had wilfully rebelled against their God; and the beloved disciples were taken away out of the land, because of their iniquity.
The specific details might refer to a past event but the Book of Mormon writers were Hebrews and I believe that they wrote in the same manner as the other Hebrew Prophets, using types to prophecy future, latter-day events.

3 Nephi 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.
4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father athey shall go forth unto the Gentiles.
5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things.


All of the Hebrew Prophets wrote about near-future events (for them) and wrote in a way that the prophecies would also apply to the Gentiles, us. The Book of Mormon Prophets were no different.

Mike

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MikeMaillet
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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by MikeMaillet »

Ymarsakar wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 2:40 pm That does not mean people here who try their hand at it are prophets.

This habit of using scripture as a way to put words into thr mouths of god and prophets is all too common a sight amongst religion adherents.

If they had an experience they would not need to quote a manual.
MikeMaillet wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 12:12 pm
Ymarsakar wrote: June 1st, 2023, 7:32 am This passage was Mormon talking about his own civilization, not the later civilizations.

The specific details might refer to a past event but the Book of Mormon writers were Hebrews and I believe that they wrote in the same manner as the other Hebrew Prophets, using types to prophecy future, latter-day events.

3 Nephi 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.
4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father athey shall go forth unto the Gentiles.
5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things.


All of the Hebrew Prophets wrote about near-future events (for them) and wrote in a way that the prophecies would also apply to the Gentiles, us. The Book of Mormon Prophets were no different.

Mike
I'm experienced in the Jimmy Hendrix sense. Does that count?

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Re: My TBM sisters thought provoking question

Post by Thinker »

Daniel wrote: May 31st, 2023, 5:11 pm… my sister posted a question… "…why, through revelation, was Joseph Smith told that the saints should stay in those places and build temples only to be persecuted and forced to leave?"

…Thoughts?
One fundamental principle of experiencing God in life is that it’s always in the present moment - no time travel to the past or future. All we can ever experience is the present moment. “The kingdom of God IS within you.”
“I AM that I AM” - not I was, nor I will be.

At that moment in time, JS felt impressed in that way. They say prophets must prophesy, & I think prophets do SEE a vision for a better future & what to do presently towards that. But so many variables (in this case BY & secret combinations taking over the church) come into play & then God’s guidance would adapt to best respond to changing circumstances. And faith is way too important for God to offer crystal balls etc telling us exactly what to expect. Though there may be plenty of self-fulfilling prophesies.

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