Let’s see what your tithing dollars have purchased next …

[Momma J]

You're currently in a stake presidency, right? Does the rest of your presidency know how you feel about the Church?

If not, have you thought about being transparent with them?

And/or with members of your stake? Do they know that you criticize the Brethren and the Church online?

You're currently in a stake presidency, right? Does the rest of your presidency know how you feel about the Church?

If not, have you thought about being transparent with them?

And/or with members of your stake? Do they know that you criticize the Brethren and the Church online?

I am and they do. We’re quite open with our opinions. We don’t think it’s an error to disagree with church leadership. We also think it’s cult-like to expect everyone to keep their mouths shut when leaders err.

If I make a mistake as a leader, I’d expect those who I lead to point it out to me so that I can improve and REPENT. It is, after all, a main tenet of the gospel.

So when I see my tithing money (which is equivalent to a portion of my very life) is spent on a mall, or a fat check to the NAACP, or on a Hawaiian resort … it is not only my right to protest it, it’s my duty.

Your complaining about where the tiths are spent is based on rumors and not fact. You really dont know where your literal tithing money went to.
Lets say your stake as a whole paid $100,000 in tithes this month. 20,000 went to bishops store house, 20,000 went to facilities, 60,000 went to SLC.
If you paid $1,000 in tithes how do you know if your 1000 went to support the storehouse, facilities or SLC?

At the end of the day only beta males complain and comply at the same time.

What purpose do all the "acquired" riches of the church serve? Why buy multi-million dollar buildings when the funds would be better served in teaching the hungry how to raise crops. Providing shelters for refugees around the world.

People argue that there will never be enough money to feed all the starving people.... yet the church is buying and building massive buildings for more profit.

You can debate the schematics, but this does nothing to lessen the hunger. How do they explain this if they are called before the Lord?

"but, but... we were making more money for the church!"

[FrankOne]

The church is operating as they did in the bible.

The true follower is asked to sacrifice and even some to sell all they have to care for the poor.

After which, the leaders said Let's go Shopping!

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Those people living on dirt floors don't "cough up" 10 percent. They willingly pay. And unlike many on this board, they don't complain about it. For them the decision is easy. For those with privilege and a white savior mentality, who don't know anything of true destitution, of course they will complain.

although I'm not one of those that get into the tithe debate, i will say that the greatest motivators for paying tithing are fear and guilt. Fear of 'burning' as one scripture says and guilt heaped on them from the church with their black eyed stare downs. The weakest and poorest are the weakest and poorest because they get taken advantage of the most.

"for them the decision is easy?" Are you in their heads? really? I've seen destitution as you likely have and the paying of tithing for the poor isn't "an easy decision" BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING BLESSED FOR BEING HALF STARVED AND FULL TITHED. IT'S CALLED MENTAL CONFLICT WHEN THE BLESSING ISN'T THERE AS PROMISED.

WAKE UP.

i've only done the shout type font here maybe once before, but sometimes the nonsense has to be called out...LOUDLY.

[FrankOne]

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Those people living on dirt floors don't "cough up" 10 percent. They willingly pay. And unlike many on this board, they don't complain about it. For them the decision is easy. For those with privilege and a white savior mentality, who don't know anything of true destitution, of course they will complain.

although I'm not one of those that get into the tithe debate, i will say that the greatest motivators for paying tithing are fear and guilt. Fear of 'burning' as one scripture says and guilt heaped on them from the church with their black eyed stare downs. The weakest and poorest are the weakest and poorest because they get taken advantage of the most.

"for them the decision is easy?" Are you in their heads? really? I've seen destitution as you likely have and the paying of tithing for the poor isn't "an easy decision" BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING BLESSED FOR BEING HALF STARVED AND FULL TITHED. IT'S CALLED MENTAL CONFLICT WHEN THE BLESSING ISN'T THERE AS PROMISED.

WAKE UP.

i've only done the shout type font here maybe once before, but sometimes the nonsense has to be called out...LOUDLY.

I'm quoting my own comment to add to it. Now that I'm off the rant box, hehe, I would like to add something to this to balance it out.

being blessed with 'overabundance' as is described in malachi for paying tithing is something that results from faith. Faith is a very very ambiguous term so I'll try to narrow it down some for this application.

"You get what you expect to get".

Not want, want doesn't do anything except make you crazy.

You have to expect it. It's a very real power. So real, that it's incomprehensible. The richest people in the world all know this. The rich are rich because they are certain they will get what they want and they make a plan, and work it with full expectation that they will succeed. They also know that obstacles will come but that's a given. They work thru them and around them and they get.what.they.expect.

A poor person does not expect much. I'm not talking about a disabled person , I'm talking about a normal, healthy poor person. They don't expect it. When they pay their tithing, no one gives them a course on the power of faith and expectation. They pay their tithing and remain poor because they expect to be poor. It's a bit sad, but it's true.

When a child sees their father that is optimistic, successful and always teaching them that there are no limitations, the child grows up expecting to be successful if they put in the time, effort, and power of certainty that anything is possible. A poor father that can't ever make ends meet teaches the opposite and most of that man's children will follow. The few that are born different, reject the father's reality and does something different.

Tithing in and of itself has relatively nothing to do with being blessed monetarily. The very richest don't pay tithing, they are cunning, manipulative and make every motion to cause others and variables to serve their quest of Mo Money!.

Make a plan, work your plan, muster all the expectation that you have that it will work out and never stop going forward despite any and all setbacks. One doesn't need to be immoral to be wealthy but they do have to be willing to sacrifice their time and other things along the way. Of course, the foregoing can apply to any goal. ...even.... the discovery of God which is accompanied by astonishment.

post script:

If you can form a strong expectation in your mind that you will be blessed 10X whatever you give in tithing, and never let that expectation wane. Never. You will receive that blessing of "overabundance". The more power of expectation that you have, the faster it will work. It could take months or years depending the level of sincerity with yourself.

Faith is relative to time.

[Subcomandante]

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Those people living on dirt floors don't "cough up" 10 percent. They willingly pay. And unlike many on this board, they don't complain about it. For them the decision is easy. For those with privilege and a white savior mentality, who don't know anything of true destitution, of course they will complain.

although I'm not one of those that get into the tithe debate, i will say that the greatest motivators for paying tithing are fear and guilt. Fear of 'burning' as one scripture says and guilt heaped on them from the church with their black eyed stare downs. The weakest and poorest are the weakest and poorest because they get taken advantage of the most.

"for them the decision is easy?" Are you in their heads? really? I've seen destitution as you likely have and the paying of tithing for the poor isn't "an easy decision" BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING BLESSED FOR BEING HALF STARVED AND FULL TITHED. IT'S CALLED MENTAL CONFLICT WHEN THE BLESSING ISN'T THERE AS PROMISED.

WAKE UP.

i've only done the shout type font here maybe once before, but sometimes the nonsense has to be called out...LOUDLY.

For many here, paying tithing is an easy decision in spite of their poverty. They do so with complete faith that the Lord will provide for them, and He does. Does that mean that they go into a multi-million dollar beachside mansion? No. Does it mean that they are able to get a new luxury car? Definitely not.

But what does happen? Because they tithe, they find new ways to get better opportunities to help others. They find out that material goods are not necessarily priority one items, and they spend money only on absolutely necessary items.

A sister pays money to get bakery goods, and starts making items. Her husband goes out to sell those items, coming back with an empty basket and money. Ten percent to the Lord. Rinse and repeat.

Little by little over a few months, the husband gains a more stable job, and talks about his wife's bakery items to his colleagues. Over time, he buys a computer to process those orders cleaner. He finds a very stable job that makes a significant amount of money. Wife doesn't have to spend most of the time cooking bakery items, but can now enjoy them herself with her family. Other bakery items are made for ward activities. All while remembering the ten percent to the Lord. The necessity has become surplus. Doing it because she likes to do it, not because she needs to do it.

Before you start thinking about this being a mere hypothetical setup in an extreme case, the husband in the story is me.

[Subcomandante]

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Priestcraft is not what you think it is.

It is not preaching the gospel for money. It is preaching a message directing people towards someone who is not Jesus Christ, then showing them as a true light. That can be done with or without money.

Oftentimes the message by a participant of priestcraft is one of becoming popular with the world and adapting worldly trends that are contrary to the commandments of God and Jesus Christ.

What is NOT priestcraft?

Teaching and testifying of Jesus Christ as the true Light.

Sub sub sub...

Priestcraft is a sign of the church of the devil. Priests are not supposed to be supported financially by the people. This message is repeated throughout the Book of Mormon.

Hate to break it to you Sub...but RMN and company with thier 259K compensation package are the BOM textbook definition of priestcraft...PERIOD.

...and building Zion is surely not a 157 billion dollar slush fund in the stock market.

Your constant apologetics are often more than a bridge to far.

That is not the BOM textbook definition of priestcraft, period. That is RedPilledMormon's vain interpretation of what the definition of priestcraft is.

[blitzinstripes]

The church is operating as they did in the bible.

The true follower is asked to sacrifice and even some to sell all they have to care for the poor.

After which, the leaders said Let's go Shopping!

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Priestcraft is not what you think it is.

It is not preaching the gospel for money. It is preaching a message directing people towards someone who is not Jesus Christ, then showing them as a true light. That can be done with or without money.

Oftentimes the message by a participant of priestcraft is one of becoming popular with the world and adapting worldly trends that are contrary to the commandments of God and Jesus Christ.

What is NOT priestcraft?

Teaching and testifying of Jesus Christ as the true Light.

Jim Baker taught that Christ was the true light. While he stole millions from his faithful congregations. The Catholic church teaches that Christ is the true light. I don't suppose you need a history lesson about that level of corruption.

Not priestcraft, eh? Someday, Sub.....someday you simply won't be able to remain in your state of denial any longer. And when that day finally comes, I truly believe you will eventually be a stalwart advocate/ defender of the truth. A slumbering warrior.

[Subcomandante]

You aren't kidding...

Literally shopping with YOUR money. Look at this outrageous compensation package for leaders that have for decades LIED about not having a paid ministry.

157K base pay and a 259K total compensation package...this puts them in the top 10% of Utah household income.

DISGUSTING!!!!

What was that in the scriptures about PRIESTCRAFT????

Screenshot_20230530_131716_Brave.jpg

Priestcraft is not what you think it is.

It is not preaching the gospel for money. It is preaching a message directing people towards someone who is not Jesus Christ, then showing them as a true light. That can be done with or without money.

Oftentimes the message by a participant of priestcraft is one of becoming popular with the world and adapting worldly trends that are contrary to the commandments of God and Jesus Christ.

What is NOT priestcraft?

Teaching and testifying of Jesus Christ as the true Light.

Jim Baker taught that Christ was the true light. While he stole millions from his faithful congregations. The Catholic church teaches that Christ is the true light. I don't suppose you need a history lesson about that level of corruption.

Not priestcraft, eh? Someday, Sub.....someday you simply won't be able to remain in your state of denial any longer. And when that day finally comes, I truly believe you will eventually be a stalwart advocate/ defender of the truth. A slumbering warrior.

Nope. What the FP + Q12 do cannot be considered as priestcraft. They do not "rob money from the congregations." Setting excess reserves in areas where more money can be gathered, can only be described as a correct application of the parable of the talents.

There you have people that got five and two talents and they worked and got more talents. Then you had the one with one who simply dug it into the ground.

What the people here are advocating is to do an even worse job than the person with one talent. They suggest they spend it all and come back with nothing, then come up with a number of justifications for it.

Thank goodness the Lord hires servants far wiser than you or I, to guide this Church to be intact when it is to be received by the Lord at His coming. Speaking of course, collectively, and not individually, because there are many that will not make it for one reason or another.

[randyps]

I am and they do. We’re quite open with our opinions. We don’t think it’s an error to disagree with church leadership. We also think it’s cult-like to expect everyone to keep their mouths shut when leaders err.

If I make a mistake as a leader, I’d expect those who I lead to point it out to me so that I can improve and REPENT. It is, after all, a main tenet of the gospel.

So when I see my tithing money (which is equivalent to a portion of my very life) is spent on a mall, or a fat check to the NAACP, or on a Hawaiian resort … it is not only my right to protest it, it’s my duty.

Your complaining about where the tiths are spent is based on rumors and not fact. You really dont know where your literal tithing money went to.
Lets say your stake as a whole paid $100,000 in tithes this month. 20,000 went to bishops store house, 20,000 went to facilities, 60,000 went to SLC.
If you paid $1,000 in tithes how do you know if your 1000 went to support the storehouse, facilities or SLC?

At the end of the day only beta males complain and comply at the same time.

What purpose do all the "acquired" riches of the church serve? Why buy multi-million dollar buildings when the funds would be better served in teaching the hungry how to raise crops. Providing shelters for refugees around the world.

People argue that there will never be enough money to feed all the starving people.... yet the church is buying and building massive buildings for more profit.

You can debate the schematics, but this does nothing to lessen the hunger. How do they explain this if they are called before the Lord?

"but, but... we were making more money for the church!"

I believe the church used to have a few hospitals in Utah back in the day but they realized that the best people to run a hospital are the administrators and medical professionals. The church is not in the business of running hospitals, day cares, educational institutions and homeless shelters. Yet they are most certainly providing ways to help and support those institutions.

I love watching the many homeless stories out there on youtube from various podcasters. The common theme to everyones homeless story is 1. drugs. 2. mental illness usually developed from drug use, and 3 not wanting to comply with the rules of living with their parents and or family. Tell me how giving those homeless people money will solve their situation. Most of those homeless dont even want to go to homeless shelters because they dont want to follow the rules.

The gospel of Jesus Christ and Christianity in general (not just the mormon church) teach our youth to stay away from sex and drugs, it teaches adults to be responsible caretakers to provide for their children. This alone will solve 90% of the worlds homeless and poverty issues. Giving money is not a solution, giving time is. Local bishops, stake presidents, missionaries are giving time to serve their communities and they are equipped with the gospel of Jesus christ which is the solution to end poverty and homelessness.

[Momma J]

Your support of the money machine is admirable. Yet, they still are accountable before God. Are they truly acting as Disciples of the Lord in their actions?

Luke 16:19-26
King James Version
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Are we like the rich man in the parable? He is not damned for doing the wrong thing; he is damned for doing nothing.

He did not steal from Lazarus nor did he abuse him. He was found guilty of failing to administer to him. The dogs had more sympathy than their master.

If Jesus were amongst us today, I believe he would not be sitting with the prophets of the church discussing the wealth that they have amassed. He would be out administering to the sick, the oppressed, the broken.

He wants us to rise up and serve. Ignoring the drug addled, the prostitutes, our enemies, those with a different culture, skin colour, etc... does not glorify our love for our Lord and Saviour. Cherry picking whom we help, judging who is worthy... Building riches and hiding them up...

Not very Christ like in our actions as individuals or a church.

[Silver Pie]

Here are a few other rich (funny) parts of this PR stunt.

"No journalist, author, broadcaster, or YouTube influencer can see the future. None of them are ordained as special witnesses of Jesus Christ. That is why prophets don’t say the same things your favorite social media influencer says. That is why prophets don’t mince words and sometimes rub people the wrong way.27 When prophets teach the doctrine of Christ and the great plan of God the Father Himself, there are those who don’t like how it sounds because it is foreign to the 21st century-saturated ear."

"Elder Jeffrey R. Holland referred to this when he said that too often today “if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds.”28 Celestial training, as taught by prophets, often feels incongruent with this telestial world, because it is. "

"Complicating matters are self-appointed watchdogs, some of them our own members, who feel compelled to censure the Church and its leaders when they don’t like what our leaders say or do. But isn’t criticizing the Lord’s prophets actually criticizing the Lord? Prophets are His messengers. 9 | Page  Be wary of those who think they are smarter than prophets. Be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies and practices of men. Beware of those who try to silence prophets when they don’t conform."

Oh, brother.

[Good & Global]

Priestcraft is not what you think it is.

It is not preaching the gospel for money. It is preaching a message directing people towards someone who is not Jesus Christ, then showing them as a true light. That can be done with or without money.

Oftentimes the message by a participant of priestcraft is one of becoming popular with the world and adapting worldly trends that are contrary to the commandments of God and Jesus Christ.

What is NOT priestcraft?

Teaching and testifying of Jesus Christ as the true Light.

Jim Baker taught that Christ was the true light. While he stole millions from his faithful congregations. The Catholic church teaches that Christ is the true light. I don't suppose you need a history lesson about that level of corruption.

Not priestcraft, eh? Someday, Sub.....someday you simply won't be able to remain in your state of denial any longer. And when that day finally comes, I truly believe you will eventually be a stalwart advocate/ defender of the truth. A slumbering warrior.

Nope. What the FP + Q12 do cannot be considered as priestcraft. They do not "rob money from the congregations." Setting excess reserves in areas where more money can be gathered, can only be described as a correct application of the parable of the talents.

There you have people that got five and two talents and they worked and got more talents. Then you had the one with one who simply dug it into the ground.

What the people here are advocating is to do an even worse job than the person with one talent. They suggest they spend it all and come back with nothing, then come up with a number of justifications for it.

Thank goodness the Lord hires servants far wiser than you or I, to guide this Church to be intact when it is to be received by the Lord at His coming. Speaking of course, collectively, and not individually, because there are many that will not make it for one reason or another.

Yes they are wiser. And this also is not priestcraft (see link below) just it is harder to believe this guy doesn't work for Satan. He has crazy eyes but many of his words aside from southern speaking and crazy eyes are things we might hear ourselves from leaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI
Notice how he shifts blame and starts talking about alcohol. Distractions. Same tactics.
He also considers the matter closed.

The Q15 can't help but to take this tithing money and invest it and enjoy all the perks this guy does.

[Being There]

One persons view of Mormon Priestcraft.


Quote
Mormon Priestcraft… Is There Such a Thing?


I’ve had this burning question for a long time (truth be told, I just re-read the P.D.P. post by Shawn L, and it inspired me to revisit this question): Does “priestcraft” exist in Mormon culture? If so, what qualifies as priestcraft? Is it the books or cds by Mormon authors that are being solicited to Mormons? Is it the endless trinkets with CTR or “Hold to the Rod” emblazoned across them? How about the jazzed up or even rocked out versions of primary classics such as “Give Said the Little Stream,” or “I Belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?” The “Forgotten Carols?” First, a definition of the word. Priestcraft as defined in 2 Nephi 26:29, which states: “…for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.”

Truth is, I don’t have an exact answer to my originally question. However, something in my gut just tells me that profiting off of someone because of their religious convictions has something inherently wrong about it. So, yes, I think it exists in Mormon culture, but to what degree, and what exactly constitutes “priestcraft,” I’m still not sure.

At conflict with my opinion is the 13th Article of Faith, which reads, and I’m paraphrasing, “… If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” Though I doubt that qualifies movies like “The R.M.” or “Singles Ward,” but does it help qualify a few of the well-intentioned books out there?

On that note, I’ve created my list of the top six (it was a top five list, but then I thought of my least favorite out of all of them, so I amended it to the not-so-round-number, six) items that qualify as Mormon Priestcraft (note: I’m not providing a link to where you can buy the item as that would defeat the purpose, n’est-ce pas?)

The CTR Dog Tag (yes, it exists)
An LDS Girl’s Guide to Real Beauty. There are other books, lots of them, that could have made this list. Some of you are probably saying, what, no “Tennis Shoes Among the Nephites?” Personal disclaimer: I liked that book. So instead, I chose this one to represent the miriad of books available the mislead people to think they are getting the LDS perspective on any topic, but it can’t/shouldn’t be quoted in your church meetings. Not that this book in particular is incapable of helping any young lady seeking answers to this question, but by invoking the LDS name can misguide some into thinking it is approved of by the church.
Any t-shirt about the Stripling Warriors, church song themes (Give Said the Little Stream was the first example I saw, but there are others out there), jr. missionaries, etc.
Hold to the Rod key chains. Yes, I had one. No, I will not get one again. Heck, just about any key chain, other than the canister for consecrated oil, which I believe serves an actual purpose (if it hadn’t come in handy so many times, than it would have been considered. But since it actually serves a purpose and is used for more than just trying to out Mormon the next guy, it stays off the list).
Any “Christian Rock” band whose target demographic are Mormons, or any Christians for that sake. Yes, that includes groups like Jericho Road.
And, perhaps my least favorite of all and the reason this is a list of 6 and not 5: RULDS2 Bumper Stickers. Please, I can’t think of anything more pointless, self-righteous and belittling to anyone who understands it but isn’t LDS.

There are a lot more items that could be listed, some that overlap with the P.D.P.’s, but feel free to add to the list of favorite “Mormon Priestcraft” items in the comments below. Let’s be nice (no bashing on the Osmond’s or Stephen Covey… both of whom I exempt from the list because they appeal(ed) to a broader audience), but have fun with it.

[Good & Global]

Being There this is exactly what I have been thinking.

It is so easy to see the mote in our evangelical brother's eye when we do not see the LDS endorsed beam in our own. I think the proverbial scales are falling from the eyes of those who will see.

Before this some of us spent missions telling people about how we didn't have a paid clergy and even the guys at the very top live off their money not the people's. Then we find out they receive generous living stipend packages. So we would make fun of other churches and their preachers for receiving money to provide a living while we were basically doing the same thing giving money to live but calling it a stipend. So the word stipend makes it justifiable and completely another thing. Yet the Book of Mormon teaches about laboring for one's self and not glutting on labors of the people.

We are also so quick to get on other churches' case about their teachers as delving in priestcraft like Kenneth Copeland selling books and cds. Because our leaders never make money on those. They don't? They may not sell cds but they make money on each and every book they sell as additional compensation. They earn royalties on them and probably following how its okay to pay them cuz most CEOs get xyz line ... these general authorities probably receive compensation up front on the book before it even sells one copy as that is what happens with other authors. But they are not Danielle Steele or Stephen King or JK Rowling you say, they are lovable old grandpas. Wouldn't that be the best way to hide it? Wouldn't even suspect it would you?

Can anyone say Boyd K. Packer? The lifelong poor church employee who had a large home and was a millionaire never having worked outside the church. He also coincidentally wrote 15 books. Guess those royalty checks add up?

If these men aren't receiving revelations since they never bother to share any of substance with even their own members, then they are also setting themselves up as a light unto the people. I am not sure what other items that you need especially as we look at UN, NAACP handing out awards and basically the seeking of praise of the world. No, no, that couldn't be priestcraft. It is LDS, it is of God.

[Seed Starter]

Jim Baker taught that Christ was the true light. While he stole millions from his faithful congregations. The Catholic church teaches that Christ is the true light. I don't suppose you need a history lesson about that level of corruption.

Not priestcraft, eh? Someday, Sub.....someday you simply won't be able to remain in your state of denial any longer. And when that day finally comes, I truly believe you will eventually be a stalwart advocate/ defender of the truth. A slumbering warrior.

Nope. What the FP + Q12 do cannot be considered as priestcraft. They do not "rob money from the congregations." Setting excess reserves in areas where more money can be gathered, can only be described as a correct application of the parable of the talents.

There you have people that got five and two talents and they worked and got more talents. Then you had the one with one who simply dug it into the ground.

What the people here are advocating is to do an even worse job than the person with one talent. They suggest they spend it all and come back with nothing, then come up with a number of justifications for it.

Thank goodness the Lord hires servants far wiser than you or I, to guide this Church to be intact when it is to be received by the Lord at His coming. Speaking of course, collectively, and not individually, because there are many that will not make it for one reason or another.

Yes they are wiser. And this also is not priestcraft (see link below) just it is harder to believe this guy doesn't work for Satan. He has crazy eyes but many of his words aside from southern speaking and crazy eyes are things we might hear ourselves from leaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI
Notice how he shifts blame and starts talking about alcohol. Distractions. Same tactics.
He also considers the matter closed.

The Q15 can't help but to take this tithing money and invest it and enjoy all the perks this guy does.

Let's see, where have I heard this before?

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

Here are a few other rich (funny) parts of this PR stunt.

"No journalist, author, broadcaster, or YouTube influencer can see the future. None of them are ordained as special witnesses of Jesus Christ. That is why prophets don’t say the same things your favorite social media influencer says. That is why prophets don’t mince words and sometimes rub people the wrong way.27 When prophets teach the doctrine of Christ and the great plan of God the Father Himself, there are those who don’t like how it sounds because it is foreign to the 21st century-saturated ear."

"Elder Jeffrey R. Holland referred to this when he said that too often today “if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds.”28 Celestial training, as taught by prophets, often feels incongruent with this telestial world, because it is. "

"Complicating matters are self-appointed watchdogs, some of them our own members, who feel compelled to censure the Church and its leaders when they don’t like what our leaders say or do. But isn’t criticizing the Lord’s prophets actually criticizing the Lord? Prophets are His messengers. 9 | Page  Be wary of those who think they are smarter than prophets. Be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies and practices of men. Beware of those who try to silence prophets when they don’t conform."

Oh, brother.

The gripe I hear in the forum is not, as Elder Holland says, be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies of men, but rather, prophets who pressure members to conform to the philosophies of men. LGBTQ, Clot shot, United Nations, etc. come to mind.

[Aussie]

Well I think that the so called leaders cherry pick the FIRE and BRIMSTONE to suite their agenda:

No FIRE and BRIMSTONE only LOVE, ACCEPTANCE and ADVOCATING for:

1/ LGBTQ
2/ Woke
3/ BLM
4/ pornography Lenience
5/ Lack of Modesty
6/ Priestcraft
7/ Medical tyranny
8/ Pronouns
9/ Drag shows
10/ Blindly following the leaders
11/ Cancel culture
12/ Baptizing a man and putting that he was a woman on the church records
13/ Letting that man baptized as a woman go through the Temple when it's ready.
14/ Going easy on all sorts of fornication
15/ Entering into the Governments ESG scoring system

On the other hand NO TOLARANCE or ACCEPTANCE only FIRE and BRIMSTONE for

1/ Investigating
2/ critical thinking
3/ Learning about Deep doctrine/evil spirits/ end times
4/ teaching about JS
5/ Believing JS teachings
6/ Not paying a full tithing
7/ Not being a good global citizen
8/ Not getting the death, clot shot and not accepting / masks and lockdowns
9/ Not idol worshipping the Profit / leaders
10/ Asking about the tithing money $$
11/ Questioning whether the leaders are really called by God
12/ Asking about why there's NO revelation anymore
13/ Asking why the church have a partnership with the UN
14/ Asking why Bednar signed the UN's new 10 commandments and was at the breaking of God's 10 Commandments
15/ Asking why are they Excommunicating people for talking about documents that they themselves released from church archives


This is just to name a few from off the top of my head!!!

[Good & Global]

You forgot suicide. They now have a much lighter stance on suicide.

No longer the great punishment or terrible thing.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... e?lang=eng

Makes you wonder with their track record on everything post covid ... um yeah riiiight like I trust that.

Could just be a change in policy to allow for literal godsend non apologies to take place.

[Aussie]

I think those that are with out the law who commit suicide are judged not as harsh as those with the law. However those people who are experiencing suicidal ideation are possessed by foul spirits. Church members are suppose to know better? The leaders will be held accountable for many of those deaths because they did not teach about evil spirits and possession. They went the way of secular education and not biblical teachings. They rely on the arm of the flesh rather than relying on God! JS spend much of his time trying to teach people about how to discern evil spirits and possession.

The church is probably getting families ready to euthanize their loved ones because the UN, WHO, Media, Medical and the CDC are encouraging (depopulation) I mean suicide. You know the drill, we need to be 'Good Global Citizens.'

[Seed Starter]

Here are a few other rich (funny) parts of this PR stunt.

"No journalist, author, broadcaster, or YouTube influencer can see the future. None of them are ordained as special witnesses of Jesus Christ. That is why prophets don’t say the same things your favorite social media influencer says. That is why prophets don’t mince words and sometimes rub people the wrong way.27 When prophets teach the doctrine of Christ and the great plan of God the Father Himself, there are those who don’t like how it sounds because it is foreign to the 21st century-saturated ear."

"Elder Jeffrey R. Holland referred to this when he said that too often today “if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds.”28 Celestial training, as taught by prophets, often feels incongruent with this telestial world, because it is. "

"Complicating matters are self-appointed watchdogs, some of them our own members, who feel compelled to censure the Church and its leaders when they don’t like what our leaders say or do. But isn’t criticizing the Lord’s prophets actually criticizing the Lord? Prophets are His messengers. 9 | Page  Be wary of those who think they are smarter than prophets. Be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies and practices of men. Beware of those who try to silence prophets when they don’t conform."

Oh, brother.

The gripe I hear in the forum is not, as Elder Holland says, be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies of men, but rather, prophets who pressure members to conform to the philosophies of men. LGBTQ, Clot shot, United Nations, etc. come to mind.

Exactly! I thought it was very interesting how she flipped the truth. I think I laughed the first time I heard that. Then she poses this as a question rather than fact. "But isn’t criticizing the Lord’s prophets actually criticizing the Lord"? First of all, we need to define what a prophet is and understand how we will know them. If RMN and the others don't pass the prophet test then her prophetic firewall building question doesn't even enter the conversation. What if I asked a bishop taking disciplinary action against a member, "But isn't punishing the Lord's son or daughter for following what the Spirit tells them even if it runs contrary to a prophet's favorite sins actually punishing the Lord"?

We can do this all day. She's clearly trying to frame the argument in a way that is designed to see questioners in a negative light and keep them on the PSR IV drip. Almost the entire time I thought, "does she think I'm stupid"? The Spirit immediately testified to me every time she deviated from truth. My Dad sent me her talk to help me. It did, but not in the way he was thinking. The Spirit testifying of her forked tongue strengthened my testimony. I didn't tell him that.

We certainly have a few gems here:

"If people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds.”28 Celestial training, as taught by prophets, often feels incongruent with this telestial world, because it is."

Yes this is what they want especially some TBM's. Imagine slamming most of the audience and they have no clue. We don't see ETB-like talks in conference anymore because the average member's head would explode. And boat rockers and rowers here have been admonished for our questioning. Many members want a God who doesn't demand much. And yet that audience probably assumes she's referring to apostates like me. Truth is something that requires wrestling and many TBM's haven't broken a spiritual sweat in years. I know because I was one. Everyone grows at different rates so it isn't for me to judge. I just think it's interesting how TBM's rarely think the finger is pointing at them in these cases. TBM reads BOM, "Wo unto those who think all is well in Zion." Looks around... "Oh, you're talking to me"?

I'm often out of breath wrestling with truth as people look down their noses at my lack of faith in men. Perhaps I have spiritual asthma... Truly remarkable to experience these things from this side of things.

[Silver Pie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI

Creepy!

[Silver Pie]

Oh, brother.

The gripe I hear in the forum is not, as Elder Holland says, be wary of those who pressure prophets to conform to the philosophies of men, but rather, prophets who pressure members to conform to the philosophies of men. LGBTQ, Clot shot, United Nations, etc. come to mind.

Yep. His words seemed hypocritical to me.