Questions for Denver followers or those that left the DS movement

[Ymarsakar]

Denver recently made a post about being in Christ's family. See his latest post: https://denversnuffer.com/2023/04/christs-family/

In the first paragraph he touts how only his scriptures are the ones the Lord accepts. See Denver's words below:

Throughout the Book of Mormon the theme of being “numbered among” a specific covenant group is repeated. In 1 Ne. 3:25 Nephi’s great vision includes this promise (and prophecy): “And it shall come to pass that if the gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks, and harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father. Yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel[.]” (Quoting from the Restoration Edition of the Scriptures. All other quotes cite to that version of the scriptures–the only one which has been approved by the Lord.)

He never has claimed the Restoration Scriptures are "his" actually far from it. You should get your facts straight before making such statements...kind of makes you look foolish.

Then he goes on to build a case that you had better have taken the covenant he (Denver) offered or else you have no promise. No matter how awesome you are - you had to raise your arm to the square and say that you accept what Denver is offering. You can read the post and see what you think.

Denver has never claimed that the "covenant " he received from the Lord is something Denver offers as if it's his. This "covenant" is offered to all by the Lord. Denver claims no authorship. Again you are not being truthful and it's not a good look. Have you read the covenant?

I feel like Denver is literally LDS 2.0. Denver is basically saying: Take what I offer or you don't get salvation at all. Period.

Denver is the first person to declare he isn't starting a new Church...there are already too many Churches and they are ALL corrupt. Denver is only delivering a message that the Lord commanded him to give. It's up to us to decide whether to accept or reject it. As always when someone comes in the name of the Lord i.e. Abinadi, Samuel the Lamanite most of the time they persecute the messenger but it's not about him it's about the message and the truth can be hard on many such people i.e. Laman, Lemuel, King Noah, TBMs etc.

Even though Joseph Smith declared the Book of Mormon as the most correct book - Denver got it right-er than JS. So now that Denver figured it out, now we must raise our arm to the square and accept that newer version brought to you buy...not Denver. But a committee. A scripture committee. Did anyone read passing the heavenly gift? I'm pretty sure most of that book is calling out the trouble with the church's committees. I knew other men on the Scripture committee who were committing serious sin but somehow that didn't matter to the Lord when He needed to bring about a perfect book. More perfect than JS could do.

There is so much you got just plain wrong and it's apparent that you have not done any real homework of what Denver and the Movement has done. Yes, Joseph did declare that the BoM was the most correct book and one could get closer to the Lord through living its teachings than any other book but others added and removed a lot of things especially punctuation that took away from the book hence the effort to restore that which was lost through using the most correct edition that Joseph provided was incorporated in the Restoration Edition of the BoM. Not only that, these scriptures are the first ever to include ALL of Joseph's Bible translation which is a priceless blessing for everyone. But even with all the effort the Lord said it's acceptable at this time but due to the sources drawn from there are still mistakes and issues with these scriptures.

Where did you get the idea we raise our arm to the square? That is just not so but the covenant you are referring to does instruct you if you are willing to accept it to say yes after being read the four points in the covenant.

The committee was not just one but two independent ad hoc groups that were inspired to recover and reclaim the scriptures as much as possible. Once they were pretty well along they presented their work to Denver for his consideration and he's the one that brought both groups together to complete the work. These groups were created by the people in them not by a top down hierarchical leadership a la LDS. PTHG was the first book I read of Denver mostly because I was on this forum 11 years ago and someone mention that he was being ex'd because of the book so I picked it up and read it in three days which answered so many of my question about the church's history and how we got where we are now. Again, you say that it's claimed to be more correct than what Joseph provided which is not true. What was done was to use the most correct version that Joseph corrected and edited which the LDS don't use.

Another odd thing - Denver was able to see the Lord via the old book of Mormon. Odd that now Jesus is like, "NOPE!"

Yes he was brought into the Lord's presence before the RE BoM...who are you to say he hasn't continued having those experiences. Joseph Smith didn't even have the BoM and he had the first vision. Don't limit the Lord as to what he can and can not do.

So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

There is a requirement to "use" the RE scriptures if you want to accept what the Lord is offering. Here is that part of the covenant for your reference: Second: Do you have faith in these things and receive the scriptures approved by the Lord as a standard to govern you in your daily walk in life, to accept the obligations established by the Book of Mormon as a covenant, and to use the scriptures to correct yourselves and to guide your words, thoughts, and deeds? If I want to accept a covenant like that I personally would like to use the version of scripture accepted of the Lord and is more correct than any others available. You have the choice to accept the covenant the Lord is extending or reject it to your own peril. The Lord told Joseph that whenever he has a people on the earth he commands them to build a temple so there may be a place he can visit which is a sacred space. He is now commanding this people to do so, so that there may a place for him to come and teach his people. If you don't want to be a part of his people he will not force or compel you...it's your choice. (see 1 Nephi 14:7) What happens to those who reject the Lord's offer and choose unwisely?

And apparently Denver doesn't know there are a helluva lot of other Christians out there who will never hear of these new and improved scriptures or covenant and they're going to hell too.

He has a whole website dedicated to all Christians and gave four specific talks to those of other faiths. Check it out since apparently you haven't seen this...https://www.learnofchrist.org/

How are you guys buying this koolaide????

Because the Lord is moving again to gather his people (Jacob 5:71) and ironically he has chosen to use a lawyer from Sandy UT to help in the effort along with many others.

I don't see Jesus with Denver anymore. Though I once did. Once the new scriptures took paramount importance and the covenant was tied to so many things, it got a bit creepy.

As you can see, I used the LDS references in this response. Too bad you didn't stick with it and move through the mist of darkness because there is so much light and truth the Lord is bringing forth right now and it is clear that you once had the holy ghost guiding you but by the content of your OP you have lost your way or have chosen a different path but to castigate and put down those who see things differently is just wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Based on your response I can see how Christ-like following Denver has made you. Let's see - me saying openly and truthfully that I'm frustrated and things don't make sense means you feel you should tell me I "should be ashamed of myself", I'm in "the mist of darkness", I have "lost my way", I have "castigate and put down those who see things differently" (like you just did to me....oh the irony), I have "not done any real homework" (translation: you're saying I'm an idiot and/or lazy) and you say I "look foolish". There's more but that about sums up how Christ-like you are in you response to me. I can see why Denver's teachings are so helpful for you and this confirms what I have felt from this new remnant movement: "We are right and all others are in error and lazy and stupid and shameful and in the mists of darkness."

Thanks.

I just see people in primary. Sometimes the kids argue about what their favorite teachers said and get angry at other kids who dojt like said teacher or treaching.

It is how they learn.

[Silver Pie]

Based on your response I can see how Christ-like following Denver has made you. Let's see - me saying openly and truthfully that I'm frustrated and things don't make sense means you feel you should tell me I "should be ashamed of myself", I'm in "the mist of darkness", I have "lost my way", I have "castigate and put down those who see things differently" (like you just did to me....oh the irony), I have "not done any real homework" (translation: you're saying I'm an idiot and/or lazy) and you say I "look foolish". There's more but that about sums up how Christ-like you are in you response to me. I can see why Denver's teachings are so helpful for you and this confirms what I have felt from this new remnant movement: "We are right and all others are in error and lazy and stupid and shameful and in the mists of darkness."

Thanks.

Well, we are all human, and we all speak out of our paradigms. I don't fault him for his views and I don't fault you for yours. Like Y said, we are like kids in primary. We are still learning.

[Ymarsakar]

Based on your response I can see how Christ-like following Denver has made you. Let's see - me saying openly and truthfully that I'm frustrated and things don't make sense means you feel you should tell me I "should be ashamed of myself", I'm in "the mist of darkness", I have "lost my way", I have "castigate and put down those who see things differently" (like you just did to me....oh the irony), I have "not done any real homework" (translation: you're saying I'm an idiot and/or lazy) and you say I "look foolish". There's more but that about sums up how Christ-like you are in you response to me. I can see why Denver's teachings are so helpful for you and this confirms what I have felt from this new remnant movement: "We are right and all others are in error and lazy and stupid and shameful and in the mists of darkness."

Thanks.

Well, we are all human, and we all speak out of our paradigms. I don't fault him for his views and I don't fault you for yours. Like Y said, we are like kids in primary. We are still learning.

I am hiding in a corner of the room, on the ceiling, or peaking through the door. THe veil protects me from sight.

[Lynnrd57]

Based on your response I can see how Christ-like following Denver has made you. Let's see - me saying openly and truthfully that I'm frustrated and things don't make sense means you feel you should tell me I "should be ashamed of myself", I'm in "the mist of darkness", I have "lost my way", I have "castigate and put down those who see things differently" (like you just did to me....oh the irony), I have "not done any real homework" (translation: you're saying I'm an idiot and/or lazy) and you say I "look foolish". There's more but that about sums up how Christ-like you are in you response to me. I can see why Denver's teachings are so helpful for you and this confirms what I have felt from this new remnant movement: "We are right and all others are in error and lazy and stupid and shameful and in the mists of darkness."

Thanks.

You are correct in that I don't know your heart and my comments about being ashamed and loosing your way and the mist of darkness were not appropriate. I was as offended from your OP as you were from my response and I tried to answer your questions and keep it civil but apparently I failed and I guess I got a little offensive myself. Please forgive me. I get a bit emotional when it comes to people casting disparaging comments and incorrect conclusions which you did in your OP and I will try to do better. Please don't put words in my mouth as you have done in your response. You are way off with your incorrect assumptions of your "translation" and your comment at the end of your post above which is far from the truth about us. I am far from "Christ-like" and am the first to admit it but if you would allow me to try again and help you understand what the Lord is attempting to do with this movement I would love to explain the best I can and answer any of your questions that may still have without contention and negative comments. Again, sorry for the unfriendly comments and please let me try again properly.

Thanks

[Grassland]

Based on your response I can see how Christ-like following Denver has made you. Let's see - me saying openly and truthfully that I'm frustrated and things don't make sense means you feel you should tell me I "should be ashamed of myself", I'm in "the mist of darkness", I have "lost my way", I have "castigate and put down those who see things differently" (like you just did to me....oh the irony), I have "not done any real homework" (translation: you're saying I'm an idiot and/or lazy) and you say I "look foolish". There's more but that about sums up how Christ-like you are in you response to me. I can see why Denver's teachings are so helpful for you and this confirms what I have felt from this new remnant movement: "We are right and all others are in error and lazy and stupid and shameful and in the mists of darkness."

Thanks.

You are correct in that I don't know your heart and my comments about being ashamed and loosing your way and the mist of darkness were not appropriate. I was as offended from your OP as you were from my response and I tried to answer your questions and keep it civil but apparently I failed and I guess I got a little offensive myself. Please forgive me. I get a bit emotional when it comes to people casting disparaging comments and incorrect conclusions which you did in your OP and I will try to do better. Please don't put words in my mouth as you have done in your response. You are way off with your incorrect assumptions of your "translation" and your comment at the end of your post above which is far from the truth about us. I am far from "Christ-like" and am the first to admit it but if you would allow me to try again and help you understand what the Lord is attempting to do with this movement I would love to explain the best I can and answer any of your questions that may still have without contention and negative comments. Again, sorry for the unfriendly comments and please let me try again properly.

Thanks

Yes, of course we can try again. I think it will help if you know that when I asked my questions I wasn't literal - like in "raising the arm to the square", etc. I think you took almost everything I said literally but I was speaking broadly in an attempt to describe what I am seeing within the Denver movement. So maybe my suggestion if you choose to respond to me *is not to get caught up in the way I phrase things* but rather focus on the point that I am making.

[Lynnrd57]

Yes, of course we can try again. I think it will help if you know that when I asked my questions I wasn't literal - like in "raising the arm to the square", etc. I think you took almost everything I said literally but I was speaking broadly in an attempt to describe what I am seeing within the Denver movement. So maybe my suggestion if you choose to respond to me *is not to get caught up in the way I phrase things* but rather focus on the point that I am making.

I am somewhat of a literalist so my bad in taking what you write to be literal. May be you can give us a little hint when you are speaking broadly or figuratively so we can respond appropriately. Thanks for accepting my apology and being willing to start again with your questions. Here is my second take with your OP questions.

1)

In the first paragraph he touts how only his scriptures are the ones the Lord accepts.

Denver received this from the Lord about the new RE scriptures:

The records you have gathered as scriptures yet lack many of my words, have errors throughout, and contain things that are not of me, because the records you used in your labors have not been maintained nor guarded against the cunning plans of false brethren who have been deceived by Satan.
The records of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to my forerunner John, were written in holiness and contained light and truth, but the records you have received have not transmitted that which was first written in holiness, nor are they as many as the records on the plates of brass; and the plates of brass also do not contain all my words. Nevertheless, the records in the form you have of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to John, are of great worth and can serve my purposes, and are acceptable for this time.
The records of my apostles containing my New Covenants were to contain the fullness of my gospel, but during the formation of the great and abominable church, many parts were discarded and other parts were altered. False brethren who did not fear me intended to corrupt and to pervert the right way, to blind the eyes and harden the hearts of others, in order to obtain power and authority over them.
Conspiracies have corrupted the records, beginning among the Jews, and again following the time of my apostles, and yet again following the time of Joseph and Hyrum. As you have labored with the records you have witnessed the alterations and insertions, and your effort to recover them pleases me and is of great worth. You may remove the brackets from your record, as I accept your clarifications, and you are permitted to proceed to the end with your plan to update language to select a current vocabulary, but take care not to change meaning — and if you cannot resolve the meaning, either petition me again or retain the former words. Nevertheless, you labor with an incomplete text.

2)

Then he goes on to build a case that you had better have taken the covenant he (Denver) offered or else you have no promise. No matter how awesome you are - you had to raise your arm to the square and say that you accept what Denver is offering.

Denver has never taken credit for anything he has taught and has always pointed to the Lord. Here is what the Lord said about the Covenant he has offered to everyone.

The Book of Mormon is to convince the gentiles, and a remnant of Lehi, and the Jews, of the truth of the words of my ancient prophets and apostles, with all the records agreeing that I am the Lamb of God, the Son of the Father, and I was sent into the world to do the will of the Father, and I am the Savior of the world. All must come unto me or they cannot be saved. And how do men come unto me? It is by faith, repentance, and baptism, which bring the holy ghost, to then show you all things you must know.
If the gentiles, unto whom the Book of Mormon was given, had hearkened unto the holy ghost, they would have come unto me in Hyrum and Joseph’s day. But they did not hearken, and would not allow me to abide with them in word, and in power, and in very deed.
Hear therefore my words: Repent and bring forth fruit showing repentance, and I will establish my covenant with you and claim you as mine.

3)

I feel like Denver is literally LDS 2.0. Denver is basically saying: Take what I offer or you don't get salvation at all.

Here is what Denver has said about creating another church...

We do not need another church (or churches). We do not need a king. We do not need more priestcraft. Institutional forms of Mormonism want to claim that God has finished His work for our day and has given His authority to a select group of professional clergy. Their jealousy and envy keep them out of the kingdom, and those under their control are prevented from entering in.

It's up to us to choose so we need to choose wisely if we are to accept or reject what the Lord offers, (see 1Nephi 14:7)

4)

Even though Joseph Smith declared the Book of Mormon as the most correct book - Denver got it right-er than JS. So now that Denver figured it out, now we must raise our arm to the square and accept that newer version brought to you buy...not Denver. But a committee. A scripture committee. Did anyone read passing the heavenly gift? I'm pretty sure most of that book is calling out the trouble with the church's committees. I knew other men on the Scripture committee who were committing serious sin but somehow that didn't matter to the Lord when He needed to bring about a perfect book. More perfect than JS could do.
So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

Yes, Joseph did declare that the BoM was the most correct book and one could get closer to the Lord through living its teachings than any other book but others added and removed a lot of things especially punctuation that took away from the book hence the effort to restore that which was lost through using the most correct edition that Joseph provided was incorporated in the Restoration Edition of the BoM. Not only that, these scriptures are the first ever to include ALL of Joseph's Bible translation which is a priceless blessing for everyone. But even with all the effort the Lord said it's acceptable at this time but due to the sources drawn from there are still mistakes and issues with these scriptures.

The committee was not just one but two independent ad hoc groups that were inspired to recover and reclaim the scriptures as much as possible. Once they were pretty well along they presented their work to Denver for his consideration and he's the one that brought both groups together to complete the work. These groups were created by the people in them not by a top down hierarchical leadership a la LDS. What was done was to use the most correct version that Joseph corrected and edited which the LDS don't use. (This was my previous answer without the disparaging remarks

5)

Another odd thing - Denver was able to see the Lord via the old book of Mormon. Odd that now Jesus is like, "NOPE!"

Yes he was brought into the Lord's presence before the RE BoM and he has continued having those experiences. (see this interview it will blow you away https://youtu.be/mSpiEE5rnEg ). Joseph Smith and many others have encountered the Lord who didn't have the BoM so that's not a prerequisite.

6)

So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

See my previous answer...it was pretty good.
"There is a requirement to "use" the RE scriptures if you want to accept what the Lord is offering. Here is that part of the covenant for your reference: Second: Do you have faith in these things and receive the scriptures approved by the Lord as a standard to govern you in your daily walk in life, to accept the obligations established by the Book of Mormon as a covenant, and to use the scriptures to correct yourselves and to guide your words, thoughts, and deeds? If I want to accept a covenant like that I personally would like to use the version of scripture accepted of the Lord and is more correct than any others available. You have the choice to accept the covenant the Lord is extending or reject it to your own peril. The Lord told Joseph that whenever he has a people on the earth he commands them to build a temple so there may be a place he can visit which is a sacred space. He is now commanding this people to do so, so that there may a place for him to come and teach his people. If you don't want to be a part of his people he will not force or compel you...it's your choice." It comes down to are we willing to be open to what the Lord offers not withstanding the messenger he chooses to offer it through?

7)

And apparently Denver doesn't know there are a helluva lot of other Christians out there who will never hear of these new and improved scriptures or covenant and they're going to hell too.

He has a whole website dedicated to all Christians and gave four specific talks to those of other faiths. Check it out since apparently you haven't seen this...https://www.learnofchrist.org/ (from my previous post)

8)

How are you guys buying this koolaide????

Because the Lord is moving again to gather his people (Jacob 5:71) and ironically he has chosen to use a nondescript lawyer from Sandy UT to help in the effort along with many others.

9)

I don't see Jesus with Denver anymore. Though I once did. Once the new scriptures took paramount importance and the covenant was tied to so many things, it got a bit creepy.

We should be careful if we expect to see the Lord in a man or look to a man to see the Lord. The way the Lord has said we can be certain that the person he chooses to work through is by their fruits...and those with soft hearts and open minds will be able to see the fruits from those he has tasked to carry out his work in these last days. We need to stop looking at the "man" and seek the Lord and his word and he will guide us to the correct path back to him because "he employs no servant there". When the Lord offers something like the covenant he doesn't trifle with the souls of man. This is serious stuff and when there is someone whoever it is who claims a message from the Lord we should be willing to consider their words and use the holy ghost to discern truth from error. It's up to us to choose...so choose wisely.

[Grassland]

Yes, of course we can try again. I think it will help if you know that when I asked my questions I wasn't literal - like in "raising the arm to the square", etc. I think you took almost everything I said literally but I was speaking broadly in an attempt to describe what I am seeing within the Denver movement. So maybe my suggestion if you choose to respond to me *is not to get caught up in the way I phrase things* but rather focus on the point that I am making.

I am somewhat of a literalist so my bad in taking what you write to be literal. May be you can give us a little hint when you are speaking broadly or figuratively so we can respond appropriately. Thanks for accepting my apology and being willing to start again with your questions. Here is my second take with your OP questions.

1)

In the first paragraph he touts how only his scriptures are the ones the Lord accepts.

Denver received this from the Lord about the new RE scriptures:

The records you have gathered as scriptures yet lack many of my words, have errors throughout, and contain things that are not of me, because the records you used in your labors have not been maintained nor guarded against the cunning plans of false brethren who have been deceived by Satan.
The records of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to my forerunner John, were written in holiness and contained light and truth, but the records you have received have not transmitted that which was first written in holiness, nor are they as many as the records on the plates of brass; and the plates of brass also do not contain all my words. Nevertheless, the records in the form you have of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to John, are of great worth and can serve my purposes, and are acceptable for this time.
The records of my apostles containing my New Covenants were to contain the fullness of my gospel, but during the formation of the great and abominable church, many parts were discarded and other parts were altered. False brethren who did not fear me intended to corrupt and to pervert the right way, to blind the eyes and harden the hearts of others, in order to obtain power and authority over them.
Conspiracies have corrupted the records, beginning among the Jews, and again following the time of my apostles, and yet again following the time of Joseph and Hyrum. As you have labored with the records you have witnessed the alterations and insertions, and your effort to recover them pleases me and is of great worth. You may remove the brackets from your record, as I accept your clarifications, and you are permitted to proceed to the end with your plan to update language to select a current vocabulary, but take care not to change meaning — and if you cannot resolve the meaning, either petition me again or retain the former words. Nevertheless, you labor with an incomplete text.

2)

Then he goes on to build a case that you had better have taken the covenant he (Denver) offered or else you have no promise. No matter how awesome you are - you had to raise your arm to the square and say that you accept what Denver is offering.

Denver has never taken credit for anything he has taught and has always pointed to the Lord. Here is what the Lord said about the Covenant he has offered to everyone.

The Book of Mormon is to convince the gentiles, and a remnant of Lehi, and the Jews, of the truth of the words of my ancient prophets and apostles, with all the records agreeing that I am the Lamb of God, the Son of the Father, and I was sent into the world to do the will of the Father, and I am the Savior of the world. All must come unto me or they cannot be saved. And how do men come unto me? It is by faith, repentance, and baptism, which bring the holy ghost, to then show you all things you must know.
If the gentiles, unto whom the Book of Mormon was given, had hearkened unto the holy ghost, they would have come unto me in Hyrum and Joseph’s day. But they did not hearken, and would not allow me to abide with them in word, and in power, and in very deed.
Hear therefore my words: Repent and bring forth fruit showing repentance, and I will establish my covenant with you and claim you as mine.

3)

I feel like Denver is literally LDS 2.0. Denver is basically saying: Take what I offer or you don't get salvation at all.

Here is what Denver has said about creating another church...

We do not need another church (or churches). We do not need a king. We do not need more priestcraft. Institutional forms of Mormonism want to claim that God has finished His work for our day and has given His authority to a select group of professional clergy. Their jealousy and envy keep them out of the kingdom, and those under their control are prevented from entering in.

It's up to us to choose so we need to choose wisely if we are to accept or reject what the Lord offers, (see 1Nephi 14:7)

4)

Even though Joseph Smith declared the Book of Mormon as the most correct book - Denver got it right-er than JS. So now that Denver figured it out, now we must raise our arm to the square and accept that newer version brought to you buy...not Denver. But a committee. A scripture committee. Did anyone read passing the heavenly gift? I'm pretty sure most of that book is calling out the trouble with the church's committees. I knew other men on the Scripture committee who were committing serious sin but somehow that didn't matter to the Lord when He needed to bring about a perfect book. More perfect than JS could do.
So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

Yes, Joseph did declare that the BoM was the most correct book and one could get closer to the Lord through living its teachings than any other book but others added and removed a lot of things especially punctuation that took away from the book hence the effort to restore that which was lost through using the most correct edition that Joseph provided was incorporated in the Restoration Edition of the BoM. Not only that, these scriptures are the first ever to include ALL of Joseph's Bible translation which is a priceless blessing for everyone. But even with all the effort the Lord said it's acceptable at this time but due to the sources drawn from there are still mistakes and issues with these scriptures.

The committee was not just one but two independent ad hoc groups that were inspired to recover and reclaim the scriptures as much as possible. Once they were pretty well along they presented their work to Denver for his consideration and he's the one that brought both groups together to complete the work. These groups were created by the people in them not by a top down hierarchical leadership a la LDS. What was done was to use the most correct version that Joseph corrected and edited which the LDS don't use. (This was my previous answer without the disparaging remarks

5)

Another odd thing - Denver was able to see the Lord via the old book of Mormon. Odd that now Jesus is like, "NOPE!"

Yes he was brought into the Lord's presence before the RE BoM and he has continued having those experiences. (see this interview it will blow you away https://youtu.be/mSpiEE5rnEg ). Joseph Smith and many others have encountered the Lord who didn't have the BoM so that's not a prerequisite.

6)

So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

See my previous answer...it was pretty good.
"There is a requirement to "use" the RE scriptures if you want to accept what the Lord is offering. Here is that part of the covenant for your reference: Second: Do you have faith in these things and receive the scriptures approved by the Lord as a standard to govern you in your daily walk in life, to accept the obligations established by the Book of Mormon as a covenant, and to use the scriptures to correct yourselves and to guide your words, thoughts, and deeds? If I want to accept a covenant like that I personally would like to use the version of scripture accepted of the Lord and is more correct than any others available. You have the choice to accept the covenant the Lord is extending or reject it to your own peril. The Lord told Joseph that whenever he has a people on the earth he commands them to build a temple so there may be a place he can visit which is a sacred space. He is now commanding this people to do so, so that there may a place for him to come and teach his people. If you don't want to be a part of his people he will not force or compel you...it's your choice." It comes down to are we willing to be open to what the Lord offers not withstanding the messenger he chooses to offer it through?

7)

And apparently Denver doesn't know there are a helluva lot of other Christians out there who will never hear of these new and improved scriptures or covenant and they're going to hell too.

He has a whole website dedicated to all Christians and gave four specific talks to those of other faiths. Check it out since apparently you haven't seen this...https://www.learnofchrist.org/ (from my previous post)

8)

How are you guys buying this koolaide????

Because the Lord is moving again to gather his people (Jacob 5:71) and ironically he has chosen to use a nondescript lawyer from Sandy UT to help in the effort along with many others.

9)

I don't see Jesus with Denver anymore. Though I once did. Once the new scriptures took paramount importance and the covenant was tied to so many things, it got a bit creepy.

We should be careful if we expect to see the Lord in a man or look to a man to see the Lord. The way the Lord has said we can be certain that the person he chooses to work through is by their fruits...and those with soft hearts and open minds will be able to see the fruits from those he has tasked to carry out his work in these last days. We need to stop looking at the "man" and seek the Lord and his word and he will guide us to the correct path back to him because "he employs no servant there". When the Lord offers something like the covenant he doesn't trifle with the souls of man. This is serious stuff and when there is someone whoever it is who claims a message from the Lord we should be willing to consider their words and use the holy ghost to discern truth from error. It's up to us to choose...so choose wisely.

Denver said in #6 Zion talk: "If someone came up and hit me in the head with a hammer, and six months from now I'm organizing a church asking you to give me women, and pay me your tithing, you remember what I said today, before they hit me in the head with a hammer. I'm intact mentally today. I may be crazy then."

He said he would never start a church. But he did. You have your own scriptures that no one know what you're group is talking about unless they buy into the new, better and more accurately punctuated scriptures.

There is no other person that is allowed to put revelations into the scriptures unless it's Denver so he is the leader of the church.

He is the key note speaker at conferences. There are tithing funds and an organized way of being baptized and, as Denver mentioned in the YouTube link you sent - only his method of baptism is acceptable. You can still be a catholic, baptist, etc. but you need to be baptized under his authority/with his revealed baptism. Temple fund.

I don't like that he said he wouldn't start a church and then he did exactly that. I don't like how all the followers deny, deny, deny there is a church.

I know many people who have had experiences with speaking with Jesus face to face but not within the Denver movement. There seems to be unbelief amongst the group and a high need for someone to tell them what God is saying (i.e. Denver).

He hasn't expounded on all things Isaiah.

And the last thing I will say, and the most important thing I will say is this:

I have pondered on one important question.

What is the fruit of Denver Snuffer?

When I speak with or write with people from his movement, they always, always, always talk about Denver and bear testimony of Denver: Rock Waterman, Adrain Larsen, Anonymous Bishop, Tim Malone, and many, many more.

I don't see fruit of a people grafted into the True Vine (Jesus Christ). I see a people who are grafted into Denver. They love him, they promote him, they read from him, they are obsessed with new Scriptures and the Davidic Servant and Joseph Smith and Jesus seems to continually take a back seat to all of these things.

A true servant of the Lord makes people obsessed with Jesus. They don't ever focus on the messenger. Ever. They focus on this new found relationship with Jesus.

It concerns me that when Denver does read of other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord - he immediately shoots it down.

Lot's of red flags.

Jesus alone. That's all we need. HE is enough.

[Ymarsakar]

Yes, of course we can try again. I think it will help if you know that when I asked my questions I wasn't literal - like in "raising the arm to the square", etc. I think you took almost everything I said literally but I was speaking broadly in an attempt to describe what I am seeing within the Denver movement. So maybe my suggestion if you choose to respond to me *is not to get caught up in the way I phrase things* but rather focus on the point that I am making.

I am somewhat of a literalist so my bad in taking what you write to be literal. May be you can give us a little hint when you are speaking broadly or figuratively so we can respond appropriately. Thanks for accepting my apology and being willing to start again with your questions. Here is my second take with your OP questions.

1)

In the first paragraph he touts how only his scriptures are the ones the Lord accepts.

Denver received this from the Lord about the new RE scriptures:

The records you have gathered as scriptures yet lack many of my words, have errors throughout, and contain things that are not of me, because the records you used in your labors have not been maintained nor guarded against the cunning plans of false brethren who have been deceived by Satan.
The records of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to my forerunner John, were written in holiness and contained light and truth, but the records you have received have not transmitted that which was first written in holiness, nor are they as many as the records on the plates of brass; and the plates of brass also do not contain all my words. Nevertheless, the records in the form you have of the Old Covenants, given from Adam until Moses and from Moses to John, are of great worth and can serve my purposes, and are acceptable for this time.
The records of my apostles containing my New Covenants were to contain the fullness of my gospel, but during the formation of the great and abominable church, many parts were discarded and other parts were altered. False brethren who did not fear me intended to corrupt and to pervert the right way, to blind the eyes and harden the hearts of others, in order to obtain power and authority over them.
Conspiracies have corrupted the records, beginning among the Jews, and again following the time of my apostles, and yet again following the time of Joseph and Hyrum. As you have labored with the records you have witnessed the alterations and insertions, and your effort to recover them pleases me and is of great worth. You may remove the brackets from your record, as I accept your clarifications, and you are permitted to proceed to the end with your plan to update language to select a current vocabulary, but take care not to change meaning — and if you cannot resolve the meaning, either petition me again or retain the former words. Nevertheless, you labor with an incomplete text.

2)

Then he goes on to build a case that you had better have taken the covenant he (Denver) offered or else you have no promise. No matter how awesome you are - you had to raise your arm to the square and say that you accept what Denver is offering.

Denver has never taken credit for anything he has taught and has always pointed to the Lord. Here is what the Lord said about the Covenant he has offered to everyone.

The Book of Mormon is to convince the gentiles, and a remnant of Lehi, and the Jews, of the truth of the words of my ancient prophets and apostles, with all the records agreeing that I am the Lamb of God, the Son of the Father, and I was sent into the world to do the will of the Father, and I am the Savior of the world. All must come unto me or they cannot be saved. And how do men come unto me? It is by faith, repentance, and baptism, which bring the holy ghost, to then show you all things you must know.
If the gentiles, unto whom the Book of Mormon was given, had hearkened unto the holy ghost, they would have come unto me in Hyrum and Joseph’s day. But they did not hearken, and would not allow me to abide with them in word, and in power, and in very deed.
Hear therefore my words: Repent and bring forth fruit showing repentance, and I will establish my covenant with you and claim you as mine.

3)

I feel like Denver is literally LDS 2.0. Denver is basically saying: Take what I offer or you don't get salvation at all.

Here is what Denver has said about creating another church...

We do not need another church (or churches). We do not need a king. We do not need more priestcraft. Institutional forms of Mormonism want to claim that God has finished His work for our day and has given His authority to a select group of professional clergy. Their jealousy and envy keep them out of the kingdom, and those under their control are prevented from entering in.

It's up to us to choose so we need to choose wisely if we are to accept or reject what the Lord offers, (see 1Nephi 14:7)

4)

Even though Joseph Smith declared the Book of Mormon as the most correct book - Denver got it right-er than JS. So now that Denver figured it out, now we must raise our arm to the square and accept that newer version brought to you buy...not Denver. But a committee. A scripture committee. Did anyone read passing the heavenly gift? I'm pretty sure most of that book is calling out the trouble with the church's committees. I knew other men on the Scripture committee who were committing serious sin but somehow that didn't matter to the Lord when He needed to bring about a perfect book. More perfect than JS could do.
So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

Yes, Joseph did declare that the BoM was the most correct book and one could get closer to the Lord through living its teachings than any other book but others added and removed a lot of things especially punctuation that took away from the book hence the effort to restore that which was lost through using the most correct edition that Joseph provided was incorporated in the Restoration Edition of the BoM. Not only that, these scriptures are the first ever to include ALL of Joseph's Bible translation which is a priceless blessing for everyone. But even with all the effort the Lord said it's acceptable at this time but due to the sources drawn from there are still mistakes and issues with these scriptures.

The committee was not just one but two independent ad hoc groups that were inspired to recover and reclaim the scriptures as much as possible. Once they were pretty well along they presented their work to Denver for his consideration and he's the one that brought both groups together to complete the work. These groups were created by the people in them not by a top down hierarchical leadership a la LDS. What was done was to use the most correct version that Joseph corrected and edited which the LDS don't use. (This was my previous answer without the disparaging remarks

5)

Another odd thing - Denver was able to see the Lord via the old book of Mormon. Odd that now Jesus is like, "NOPE!"

Yes he was brought into the Lord's presence before the RE BoM and he has continued having those experiences. (see this interview it will blow you away https://youtu.be/mSpiEE5rnEg ). Joseph Smith and many others have encountered the Lord who didn't have the BoM so that's not a prerequisite.

6)

So, my question is: why do we need to use the restoration scriptures or be damned and accept them by covenant or be damned? Why do you need to build a Temple when YE ARE the Temple??

See my previous answer...it was pretty good.
"There is a requirement to "use" the RE scriptures if you want to accept what the Lord is offering. Here is that part of the covenant for your reference: Second: Do you have faith in these things and receive the scriptures approved by the Lord as a standard to govern you in your daily walk in life, to accept the obligations established by the Book of Mormon as a covenant, and to use the scriptures to correct yourselves and to guide your words, thoughts, and deeds? If I want to accept a covenant like that I personally would like to use the version of scripture accepted of the Lord and is more correct than any others available. You have the choice to accept the covenant the Lord is extending or reject it to your own peril. The Lord told Joseph that whenever he has a people on the earth he commands them to build a temple so there may be a place he can visit which is a sacred space. He is now commanding this people to do so, so that there may a place for him to come and teach his people. If you don't want to be a part of his people he will not force or compel you...it's your choice." It comes down to are we willing to be open to what the Lord offers not withstanding the messenger he chooses to offer it through?

7)

And apparently Denver doesn't know there are a helluva lot of other Christians out there who will never hear of these new and improved scriptures or covenant and they're going to hell too.

He has a whole website dedicated to all Christians and gave four specific talks to those of other faiths. Check it out since apparently you haven't seen this...https://www.learnofchrist.org/ (from my previous post)

8)

How are you guys buying this koolaide????

Because the Lord is moving again to gather his people (Jacob 5:71) and ironically he has chosen to use a nondescript lawyer from Sandy UT to help in the effort along with many others.

9)

I don't see Jesus with Denver anymore. Though I once did. Once the new scriptures took paramount importance and the covenant was tied to so many things, it got a bit creepy.

We should be careful if we expect to see the Lord in a man or look to a man to see the Lord. The way the Lord has said we can be certain that the person he chooses to work through is by their fruits...and those with soft hearts and open minds will be able to see the fruits from those he has tasked to carry out his work in these last days. We need to stop looking at the "man" and seek the Lord and his word and he will guide us to the correct path back to him because "he employs no servant there". When the Lord offers something like the covenant he doesn't trifle with the souls of man. This is serious stuff and when there is someone whoever it is who claims a message from the Lord we should be willing to consider their words and use the holy ghost to discern truth from error. It's up to us to choose...so choose wisely.

Denver said in #6 Zion talk: "If someone came up and hit me in the head with a hammer, and six months from now I'm organizing a church asking you to give me women, and pay me your tithing, you remember what I said today, before they hit me in the head with a hammer. I'm intact mentally today. I may be crazy then."

He said he would never start a church. But he did. You have your own scriptures that no one know what you're group is talking about unless they buy into the new, better and more accurately punctuated scriptures.

There is no other person that is allowed to put revelations into the scriptures unless it's Denver so he is the leader of the church.

He is the key note speaker at conferences. There are tithing funds and an organized way of being baptized and, as Denver mentioned in the YouTube link you sent - only his method of baptism is acceptable. You can still be a catholic, baptist, etc. but you need to be baptized under his authority/with his revealed baptism. Temple fund.

I don't like that he said he wouldn't start a church and then he did exactly that. I don't like how all the followers deny, deny, deny there is a church.

I know many people who have had experiences with speaking with Jesus face to face but not within the Denver movement. There seems to be unbelief amongst the group and a high need for someone to tell them what God is saying (i.e. Denver).

He hasn't expounded on all things Isaiah.

And the last thing I will say, and the most important thing I will say is this:

I have pondered on one important question.

What is the fruit of Denver Snuffer?

When I speak with or write with people from his movement, they always, always, always talk about Denver and bear testimony of Denver: Rock Waterman, Adrain Larsen, Anonymous Bishop, Tim Malone, and many, many more.

I don't see fruit of a people grafted into the True Vine (Jesus Christ). I see a people who are grafted into Denver. They love him, they promote him, they read from him, they are obsessed with new Scriptures and the Davidic Servant and Joseph Smith and Jesus seems to continually take a back seat to all of these things.

A true servant of the Lord makes people obsessed with Jesus. They don't ever focus on the messenger. Ever. They focus on this new found relationship with Jesus.

It concerns me that when Denver does read of other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord - he immediately shoots it down.

Lot's of red flags.

Jesus alone. That's all we need. HE is enough.

Denver is creating something i have seen before. While not optimal it does serve a purpose for those people who can only learn religion via worshipping a concrete person. These are less mature group souls. You domt need to involve urself with their lessons.

[Lynnrd57]

Denver said in #6 Zion talk: "If someone came up and hit me in the head with a hammer, and six months from now I'm organizing a church asking you to give me women, and pay me your tithing, you remember what I said today, before they hit me in the head with a hammer. I'm intact mentally today. I may be crazy then."

He said he would never start a church. But he did. You have your own scriptures that no one know what you're group is talking about unless they buy into the new, better and more accurately punctuated scriptures.

There is no other person that is allowed to put revelations into the scriptures unless it's Denver so he is the leader of the church.

I guess it comes down to how do you define "church". It seems you are looking at this group that believes in the teachings of Denver as a church (small "c") but Denver has not and will not establish an institutional 501c3 corporate entity with a hierarchy and offices and callings and bank accounts and land holdings which would be considered a typical gentile style Church (large "C"). You are then correct in your assumption except there is no hierarchy, offices, property or even a "name" of this group of believers. It is very close to the definition the Lord gives of his church in the BoM..."And they who were baptized in the name of Jesus were called the church of Christ." They were baptized by those who had received authority and power from the Lord.

The restoration edition scriptures were created using the 1835 edition of the BoM along with the Old Testament and New Testament including all of Joseph's translations which has never been available in one volume and all of Joseph's revelations which are directly from him along with some revelations from God received by Denver. It is an open tome and will in the future be added upon with new revelations that the Lord will give to whomever he chooses. I find the new RE Scriptures much easier to read with the new formatting and the updated Joseph translation of the Bible is a real treasure but many people in the movement still use their LDS scriptures which is not frowned upon at all. Denver is a prophet/messenger/teacher/servant who has been chosen to help gather a people who are willing to "be of one heart and one mind, live in righteousness and have no poor among them". He is not a President or Leader in the sense of an organization/corporate structure. He is invited to speak at conferences held and organized by local fellowships but doesn't sit in the "Red Velvet Chief Seats" but among the regular folk that are gathered. He has done and continues to do an immense amount work in explaining and expounding scripture for all who want to learn more about our Savior. His first book he published was about how one can receive the "Second Comforter" by speaking to him through the veil and many have had the experience.

He is the key note speaker at conferences. There are tithing funds and an organized way of being baptized and, as Denver mentioned in the YouTube link you sent - only his method of baptism is acceptable. You can still be a catholic, baptist, etc. but you need to be baptized under his authority/with his revealed baptism. Temple fund.

I don't like that he said he wouldn't start a church and then he did exactly that. I don't like how all the followers deny, deny, deny there is a church.

As I mentioned above, he is invited to speak at conferences and other meetings and he does that as a courtesy and not as a "calling" or "position". Tithing is handle strictly within the local ad hoc fellowships with no central depository and distribution. Baptisms are performed in the manner given to us in the BoM and yes as of now the Lord only recognizes the ordinance performed by the movement because that is what he has said. You can believe or not believe any of this but it's your choice and I if you choose to reject what is offered that is your choice and you should just move on in whatever faith you feel meets your criteria.

As for "starting a church" I have already explained that above. If you have any additional questions about that let me know.

I know many people who have had experiences with speaking with Jesus face to face but not within the Denver movement. There seems to be unbelief amongst the group and a high need for someone to tell them what God is saying (i.e. Denver).

I know of many who have had such an experience in and outside of the movement and it is of the Lord's choosing who he brings into his presence and he usually instructs them NOT to share their experiences until he commands them to do so. I myself am in the process of forsaking my sins, coming to the Lord, calling upon his name, obeying his voice and keeping his commandments until one day of his choosing I will see his face and know that he is. I invite you to do so also.

He hasn't expounded on all things Isaiah.

He wrote a whole book called "Nephi's Isaiah"...you should check it out. I also have enjoyed Avraham Giliadi"s work on Isaiah for many years.

And the last thing I will say, and the most important thing I will say is this:

I have pondered on one important question.

What is the fruit of Denver Snuffer?

Let me ask you a question...what do you consider "fruit"? Give me an example of what you would consider fruit from anyone. (It would be nice if you could use scripture to define fruit but you don't have to.)

When I speak with or write with people from his movement, they always, always, always talk about Denver and bear testimony of Denver: Rock Waterman, Adrain Larsen, Anonymous Bishop, Tim Malone, and many, many more.

I've been around a long time and have seen many who have claimed to this "Strongman" or that "One Might and Strong" but none have done the work and end up glorifying themselves and asking for money or whatever. Denver is just a man and if you ask him, as many have, if he is a prophet/leader and he usually retorts that "he's a damn fool who follows me". All his work, books, talks, blog posts point to Christ and never to himself so we should actually disregard the messenger and focus on the message which is glorious. Denver has done a lot of work and is teaching every and anyone who is willing to listen. I hope you prayerfully reconsider your position about the message the Lord is giving us no matter who he uses to communicate that message. But it sure is a hell of a lot easier to tear down and attack the messenger than deal with the light and truth he is sharing.

I don't see fruit of a people grafted into the True Vine (Jesus Christ). I see a people who are grafted into Denver. They love him, they promote him, they read from him, they are obsessed with new Scriptures and the Davidic Servant and Joseph Smith and Jesus seems to continually take a back seat to all of these things.

Well, I see many who are trying their best to be part of Christ's family and be "grafted" into the Lord's branch. I have learned a lot from Denver but he's just a man who has no power to save me but the message he has been given by the Lord to share with any who choose to believe leads me to have greater faith in the only one who can save me...my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

A true servant of the Lord makes people obsessed with Jesus. They don't ever focus on the messenger. Ever. They focus on this new found relationship with Jesus.

In my humble opinion and considering how you describe a "true servant", Denver himself is "obsessed" with the Savior and has tried over and over to downplay his role and lift our eyes to Jesus Christ who is the only one standing at the gate and does not employ any other there.

It concerns me that when Denver does read of other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord - he immediately shoots it down.

Lot's of red flags.

Specifics would be appreciated...thanks

Jesus alone. That's all we need. HE is enough.

AMEN...just don't reject his true message and work he is doing now in our day!

[HereWeGo]

He said he would never start a church. But he did. You have your own scriptures that no one know what you're group is talking about unless they buy into the new, better and more accurately punctuated scriptures.

There is no other person that is allowed to put revelations into the scriptures unless it's Denver so he is the leader of the church.

He is the key note speaker at conferences. There are tithing funds and an organized way of being baptized and, as Denver mentioned in the YouTube link you sent - only his method of baptism is acceptable. You can still be a catholic, baptist, etc. but you need to be baptized under his authority/with his revealed baptism. Temple fund.

I don't like that he said he wouldn't start a church and then he did exactly that. I don't like how all the followers deny, deny, deny there is a church.

I know many people who have had experiences with speaking with Jesus face to face but not within the Denver movement. There seems to be unbelief amongst the group and a high need for someone to tell them what God is saying (i.e. Denver).

He hasn't expounded on all things Isaiah.

And the last thing I will say, and the most important thing I will say is this:

I have pondered on one important question.

What is the fruit of Denver Snuffer?

When I speak with or write with people from his movement, they always, always, always talk about Denver and bear testimony of Denver: Rock Waterman, Adrain Larsen, Anonymous Bishop, Tim Malone, and many, many more.

I don't see fruit of a people grafted into the True Vine (Jesus Christ). I see a people who are grafted into Denver. They love him, they promote him, they read from him, they are obsessed with new Scriptures and the Davidic Servant and Joseph Smith and Jesus seems to continually take a back seat to all of these things.

A true servant of the Lord makes people obsessed with Jesus. They don't ever focus on the messenger. Ever. They focus on this new found relationship with Jesus.

It concerns me that when Denver does read of other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord - he immediately shoots it down.

Lot's of red flags.

Jesus alone. That's all we need. HE is enough.

Your posts speak in summations, generalities and personal observations. When you make these statements, it would really help to site exact quotes which have lead you to your beliefs. It would help us readers more than just hearing conclusions.

Thanks.

[Lynnrd57]

Ymarsakar said:

Denver is creating something i have seen before. While not optimal it does serve a purpose for those people who can only learn religion via worshipping a concrete person. These are less mature group souls. You domt need to involve urself with their lessons.

Where have you seen this before? Please understand we are not "worshiping" Denver or any other man. We worship and honor God and His Son only. It's hard for me to understand people who make these statements without any basis or understanding (it's usually referred to as ad hominem). By calling us "less mature" (or in other words "stupid") to whom or what are you comparing us to? One more time, these are not "our lessons" they come from the Lord through a chosen messenger as how he has always worked in the past (Abinadi, Samuel the Lamanite, Paul...it's called scripture) and will continue to do so until he is here in person. Do you agree with the concept set forth in the latest General Conference by Elder Haynie?

[Silver Pie]

It concerns me that when Denver does read of other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord - he immediately shoots it down.

I don't recall hearing/reading him shooting down other people who have had experiences meeting the Lord. In fact, I recall him saying in some talk that he wasn't the only one who had seen the Lord. Do you have some examples for what you say?

[Silver Pie]

Well, I see many who are trying their best to be part of Christ's family and be "grafted" into the Lord's branch.

I see that, too. There are many who give Denver's words high priority, but there are also many who are seeking the Lord, not Denver.

And, like you said, this is not an organized Church (TM) with church buildings, with Denver as self-declared leader, with people giving him tithes to support himself.

I seek Christ, but listening to Denver is what opened my eyes to my terrible situation. In fact, after 9/11, I begged God to send us a messenger to warn us of our destruction instead of letting us be destroyed/killed off with no warnings from God. This was after Hinckley was namby pamby about the whole thing. In 2010, I became aware of Denver and I think it was during that year that I was reading one of his blog posts and I recognized who was speaking - it wasn't Denver; it was the Lord. Then God brought to my mind my prayer, and told me, "This is the man you prayed for." I didn't expect that. I honestly thought the man would be one of the First Presidency of the LDS Church. It is because of God's testimony to me that I believe Denver was sent by God to teach, and to give the 10 lectures he gave in 2013-14. And, like you, I seek Christ, not Denver. I listen to God's voice to me over anything Denver might say.

[Ymarsakar]

Silver, freedom of religion after all.

Denver can get the message u wanted but sooner or later you will discover that you dont need external translators if you activate the internal divine kingdom inside ur body temple.

[Silver Pie]

Silver, freedom of religion after all.

True.

Denver can get the message u wanted but sooner or later you will discover that you dont need external translators if you activate the internal divine kingdom inside ur body temple.

The thing is, listening to him woke me up that I was following false traditions. Because of my LDS training, I transferred from Monson to him, but I was aware I was doing that, and I worked really hard to remove that - because I believed Denver and he kept saying, "It isn't about me," and "You don't have to mention my name again."

Like I said in my last post: "I listen to God's voice to me over anything Denver might say." You might even say I'm on the fringes of the movement because I don't keep up with all the drama or whatever is going on. I believed a true messenger from God (according to God's message to me), and now I have no man I answer to. No religion that bosses me around. And it is incredibly freeing to have my life be between me and God, alone.

In my lifetime, calling and election and the Second Comforter was preached even in general conferences. I took an institute class on Joseph Smith around 1985. The teacher focused mostly on those two subjects and it was no big deal to anyone. Now, it's "a common trick of the adversary" to seek Christ's presence.

[BuriedTartaria]

Denver is speaking if anyone is interested in listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHNorhyUt0

"the restoration petering out everywhere, except among us"

The 'except among us' remark aside (and I'm not saying Denver is necessarily wrong on that comment but I'm not certain how much that group is thriving either, no offense), I completely agree with Denver. Mormonism ran out of steam (I would say due to God no longer putting wind behind its sails). When people quote walls of text from Brigham era church history, I just don't care. That went nowhere. It's a dead end (IMO). The restoration needs a restoration.

[Wolfwoman]

Denver is speaking if anyone is interested in listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHNorhyUt0

"the restoration petering out everywhere, except among us"

The 'except among us' remark aside (and I'm not saying Denver is necessarily wrong on that comment but I'm not certain how much that group is thriving either, no offense), I completely agree with Denver. Mormonism ran out of steam (I would say due to God no longer putting wind behind its sails). When people quote walls of text from Brigham era church history, I just don't care. That went nowhere. It's a dead end (IMO). The restoration needs a restoration.

Oh my gosh, I’m dying laughing. In answering someone’s question, Denver says, “The first thing you need to understand is that you’re a boy and you can’t get pregnant.”

[creator]

Oh my gosh, I’m dying laughing. In answering someone’s question, Denver says, “The first thing you need to understand is that you’re a boy and you can’t get pregnant.”

Timestamp needed..

[Wolfwoman]

Oh my gosh, I’m dying laughing. In answering someone’s question, Denver says, “The first thing you need to understand is that you’re a boy and you can’t get pregnant.”

Timestamp needed..

The question starts at about 2:04:00 in the afternoon session that BuriedTartaria linked above.

[Cruiserdude]

Denver is speaking if anyone is interested in listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHNorhyUt0

"the restoration petering out everywhere, except among us"

The 'except among us' remark aside (and I'm not saying Denver is necessarily wrong on that comment but I'm not certain how much that group is thriving either, no offense), I completely agree with Denver. Mormonism ran out of steam (I would say due to God no longer putting wind behind its sails). When people quote walls of text from Brigham era church history, I just don't care. That went nowhere. It's a dead end (IMO). The restoration needs a restoration.

Oh my gosh, I’m dying laughing. In answering someone’s question, Denver says, “The first thing you need to understand is that you’re a boy and you can’t get pregnant.”

That was pretty funny

[Silver Pie]

I listened to it last night. It was quite interesting and refreshing.

Interesting that he said there would not only be a group gathered together, but that there would also be individuals God was protecting (can't recall the exact wording) - as if God has people all over the planet. That fits my understanding of how things are/will be happening.

Denver is speaking if anyone is interested in listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckHNorhyUt0

"the restoration petering out everywhere, except among us"

The 'except among us' remark aside (and I'm not saying Denver is necessarily wrong on that comment but I'm not certain how much that group is thriving either, no offense), I completely agree with Denver. Mormonism ran out of steam (I would say due to God no longer putting wind behind its sails). When people quote walls of text from Brigham era church history, I just don't care. That went nowhere. It's a dead end (IMO). The restoration needs a restoration.

[BeNotDeceived]

The restoration needs a restoration.

Yup.

Where and when did things go wrong, and what is the corrective action.