Who are the Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4?

[Niemand]

None of the text quoted below is my interpretation. It is taken from:
https://islekerguelen.com/2016/02/18/wh ... esis-61-4/

Who are the Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4?
Both Peter and Jude mention angels who sinned and were judged by God. In both cases, the angel incident is coupled with another sinful situation mentioned in the book of Genesis. Peter mentions the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. Jude also mentions the immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. Because of that, some have linked these sinful angels to an immoral event which happened just before the Flood (Gen. 6:1-4).

“Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.”

Here is a synopsis of what happened:

* Daughters were born and the sons of God noticed their beauty.
* The sons of God had marital relations with whomever they chose.
* God was not pleased with what happened.
* God gave them only 120 years until the judgment of The Flood.
* Nephilim existed at this time.
* The offspring became powerful men.

You now can understand why this passage has been difficult to interpret. But don’t be dismayed. Good men have differed as to how they have interpreted this passage. And some have changed their position back and forth. It is a difficult passage but one that God placed in the Book of Genesis for us to learn from. So, let’s take some time to learn God’s lesson from it.

Question: Who were the sons of God?
The sons of God were fallen angels. 1
The first interpretation says that fallen angels left their God-given role in heaven and chose to have relations with human women. The off-spring of these relationships were the Nephilim, a super-human race of people. What evidence is there for this interpretation?

a. The title “sons of God” refers to angels in other Old Testament books (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; Dan 3:25).
While we are used to being called sons of God in the New Testament, “in the Old Testament the phrase ‘sons of God’ always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7).” 2 So, it would be natural to assume that angels are being talked about in Genesis 6.

b. It fits with New Testament usage (2 Pet. 2:4, Jude 6).
It would seem that Peter and Jude had this passage in mind since they both referred to sinful situations recorded in the book of Genesis. “We are told in these epistles, ‘angels when they sinned’ (Peter), and ‘angels who did not keep their domain’ (Jude) were judged by God. In Jude especially, the comparison is drawn between the angels’ improper activity and the gross immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah when they ‘went after strange flesh.’” 3

c. Holy angels do not marry but fallen ones might.
One of the biggest obstacles to this view is that angels are spirits who only occasionally take human form. And consider “that Matthew 22:30 declares, ‘At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.’ However, the text does not say ‘angels are not able to marry.’ Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the ‘angels in heaven.’ It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.” 2 Satan and his demons seem to actively push humans toward immorality and sexual sins.

“However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction.”2

d. Early Hebrew commentators favored this view.
Commentators say that “earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudopigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the ‘sons of God’ mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4.” 2 This doesn’t guarantee that this is the correct interpretation but does say something.

The sons of God were the descendants of Seth.
This interpretation says that “the sons of God” were descendants of the godly line of Seth and that “the daughters of men” refers to the ungodly descendants of Cain. But what evidence is there to support this interpretation?

a. The previous chapters differentiate the ungodly line of Cain and godly line of Seth.
Genesis 4 records the downward spiral of Cain and his descendants. Genesis 5, however, records the godly line of Adam’s other son, Seth. Since these two groups were just differentiated, it seems that they could be the two groups referred to in Genesis 6.

“Moses, having enumerated in order, ten patriarchs, with whom the worship of God remained pure, now relates, that their families also were corrupted.” 5

b. They took wives (normal marriage union).
The Hebrew word for “took wives” is the normal word for the marriage relationship and not an immoral relationship. This would fit better with the normal idea of a human man and woman being in a normal relationship.

c. There is no other reference to angels in the context.
Nowhere else in this passage is there any reference to angels. It seems strange that angels pop up all of a sudden with no other reference to them.

d. The angels in heaven “neither marry or are given in marriage” (Matt. 22:30).
This is probably the strongest argument against them being angels. Jesus told his questioners that in the resurrection, people will be like the angels in heaven who do not marry. Angels in heaven do not get married, so why would we think that fallen angels would do this either? It would seem odd for fallen angels to take human form (which they can) and then be able to father human children.

e. This describes the indiscriminate marriage of godly and ungodly people.

“It is also consistent with and forms the foundation for a principle taught throughout God’s Word, the extreme importance of marrying only within the family of God (Exo 34:11-16; 2 Cor 6:14-18). The Bible relates many tragic lessons from the lives of those who did not heed God’s prohibition of ‘spiritual intermarriage,’ eg. Esau, Samson, Solomon… As God’s people observed the ways of the world, they tragically were lured away from a relationship with God by the riches and beauty of the women of the world, and all that the world offered. And so, equipped with the blessings of a Godly heritage combined with the skillful application of worldly methods—for a while—the unholy alliance of the ‘sons of God’ and ‘the daughters of men’ resulted in greatness for the offspring.” 3

f. Men are punished in this passage not angels.
God’s response to the situation is to point out that man is flash in a negative way. But there is no mention of angels being judged for their part in the problem. This seems to point to both groups being human.

Conclusion
I honestly don’t know which interpretation is correct. There are compelling arguments on either side. The first involving fallen angels seem a bit too fantastical for me. But with how wicked Satan and demons in their opposition to anything godly, it wouldn’t surprise me. The second idea seems to fit the context but doesn’t explain what sin of the angels referred to in 2 Peter and Jude.

In either case,

“children of these marriages, despite pagan ideas, were not god-kings. Though heroes and ‘men of renown,’ they were flesh; and they died, in due course, like all members of the human race. When God judges the world—as He was about to—no giant, no deity, no human has any power against Him. God simply allots one’s days and brings his end.” 4

This is the main point in both 2 Peter and Jude. God will judge sin and nobody can get away with it no matter how powerful or what his background – even angels can’t get away with sin. God will judge all men and angels one day and we can count on that. So…

Don’t think that wicked men will get away with their sins.
Do you realize that every wicked man of Noah’s day was destroyed by God in the Great Flood? Do you also realize that all of the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone? Why then do we think that God is oblivious to what sinful man is doing? Trust God to be who He is — both compassionate and patient but also fully aware and doing what He deems best for the situation.

Don’t think that you will get away with your sins.
Secondly, consider your own sin. It is easy to think that this is all about someone else. But for those of you who have not repented of your sin and received Jesus, the precedent has been set. You cannot escape God’s judgement no matter how powerful you are or how great your background. The only way you can escape is by repenting of your sin and believing what Jesus has accomplished for you. He, though perfect, took your sins upon himself and died in your place, so that God could justly forgive you for your sins. Your only hope of escaping judgment is to repent of your sin and cry out to God for mercy because of what Jesus has done for you. Don’t wait until your time comes because then it will be too late.

---
1 The basic outline was taken from a sermon by Gil Rugh, “Wickedness, Flood, and Covenant,” found at http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.a ... 1605112327 on 2/18/2016.

2 “Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4?” as viewed at http://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-God.html on 2/18/2016.

3 “Sons of God in Genesis 6” as viewed at http://www.scriptureoncreation.org/#/bi ... d-in-gen-6 on 2/18/2016.

4 “Genesis” in Bible Knowledge Commentary Old Testament (PocketBible edition)

5 Calvin, John, “Genesis” in Classic Bible Commentary (PocketBible edition)

[Ymarsakar]

The information on this topic can be found in the Urantia bureaucrat papers, Confessions of a Watcher, and 1st Enoch.

The Bene ha elohim, sons of god or sons of the elohim, are celestial entities.

Heiser, also tied them to Deuteronomy 32 (sons of god, not sons of israel, Torah edit violation), and Pslam 82.

https://www.galaxie.com/article/bsac158-629-04

https://scholarlypublishingcollective.o ... m=fulltext

These are just short summary, they don't go on for pages.

https://drmsh.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... of-God.pdf

This is the more comprehensive pdf.

https://www.thedivinecouncil.com/ Heiser's own website on this world view paradigm that utilizes 1st enoch, Deuteronomy 32, and Psalm 82 as center pieces.

To summarize the Confessions of the Watcher. A Prince is assigned to this world and a system of a thousand worlds was assigned to an administrator. Urantia calls the administrator Lucifer (which is not Heyl-El afaik) and the prince Caligastia, the self proclaimed god of this world.

Caligastia was given administrative rights over humanity back in the making fire era of human non civilization. He and his staff were celestial entities that inhabited specifically engineered and constructed avatars that could last more than 500k years while eating some plant or something (Ambrosia legend, food of the gods).

They created a lower order of life, called midwayers. Half angel, half physical. They reside in the ultra violet frequency range. We may think of them as extra dimensional. They can utilize energy from their fellows to manifest physically.

Caligastia and the staff, however, were pretty much immortal so long as they had the plant and cosmic energy. Due to Lucifer's rebellion and Caligastia joining it, the energy was cut off and they began to age.

Caligastia had an arch nemesis in the form of Vanu (short for anu or Vanir perhaps). The name reminds me of norse legends, Valheim, Vanir vs Aesir wars.

Caligastia believed in might makes right, and set human kings against each other, in order to promote weapons development. Kind of sounds like Military industrial complex, Khazarian mafia, or USSA right now.

Vanu believed in the prime directive, so to speak, to uplift the mortal humans without violating freedom of choice and to preserve life.

Cali's army of half angels (nephilim?) outnumbered Vanu by 20000 to 2000,

Cali's staff eventually expired/died.

So essentially, this story's details I cannot completely verify. I was not around at the time this happened apparently. I don't get a false or true reading from it, but a neutral sense. It is a valid pov at least.

The story narrative, however, is very very close to the Divine Counsel narration from Deuteronomy 32, Psalm 82, and 1st Enoch Fallen Watchers/grigori. so close they seem to be talking about the same series of events, but from different povs.

On a side note, the great men of renown, were said to be when Cali ordered his staff ( I think) to procreate with human women, in order to create a caste of sons to influence the nations and the tribes. Cali and staff were frustrated with slow human development and superstitions, adopting Lucifer's rebellion in order to "uplift" humanity faster. This ultimately lead to most of our warfare and our eventual destruction (a few times). Hell is paved with good intentions, and even the angels are susceptible to temptation.

Again, I want to make a note that I am not communicating what my own memories/skills are translating the story as, but summarizing what this Watcher called Georgia has relayed through Timothy. It is almost completely in line with ancient Hebrew povs.

The Middle East and Europe was under Cali's influence, and far east India was under Vanu.

West vs east begins to take on different overtones now. Why were the Indian religions harmonious and very resistant to holy wars, while the Western religions are very prone to holy wars of extermination? The angels did it ; )

[Arm Chair Quarterback]

This presentation by Tim Alberino, author of "Empire of the Gods" (which is also the title of this presentation) covers this topic in great detail with in-depth research where he connects ancient anthropological detail with the creation and flood stories. His presentation begins at the 2.0 minute mark. This video is worth every minute of your time. It gives a whole new bent on Christ's description of the last days being "as in the days of Noah".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0Kd7-K8dU

[TheChristian]

I see such in great simplicity, the Sons of God in the pre flood days were men whom believed in Jesus our Lord. I believe that the Good News of Christ was given to mankind in the beginning, for the only way a man can be a Son of God is revealed with great clarity in the New Testament.

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.""

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"

Its obvious what caused the Lords displeasure, those Sons of God, (The pre flood believers in Jesus) went and took pagan wives.
Yes I truly believe that Jesus our Lord was known of from the very beginning when our first parents were put out of Eden. I believe that Noah also took this most precious of truths with him across the great flood.
We can view this in our times, the world is split into two camps, those that believe in Jesus our Lord are the Sons and daughters of God, those that do not accept Him are the sons and daughters of men.

[Bronco73idi]

Adam is God and his sons are sons of God. This is why Cane needed help from Satan to kill Able.

Gospel of Thomas
15 Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman, fall down upon your faces and worship him; that one is your Father.

18 The disciples said to Jesus: Tell us how our end will be. Jesus said: Since you have discovered the beginning, why do you seek the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who shall stand at the beginning (in the beginning), and he shall know the end, and shall not taste death.

I use to believe who you believed.

Bible hub Hebrew to English
Gen 6:4
The Nephilims were on the earth in days those and also after that when came in the sons of God

Says the same in NKJV.

It is literally saying the Nephilims were already on the earth when the sons of God took daughters of men.

Jospeh Smith translation supports this.
6:5 And then began these men to call upon the name of the Lord; and the Lord blessed them; and a book of remembrance was kept in the which was recorded in the language of Adam, for it was given unto as many as called upon God to write by the Spirit of inspiration;
6:6 And by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled.
6:7 Now this same priesthood which was in the beginning shall be in the end of the world also.
6:8 Now this prophecy Adam spake as he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

Here is my thread on this.

viewtopic.php?t=69603&hilit=Daughters+men

[Bronco73idi]

I see such in great simplicity, the Sons of God in the pre flood days were men whom believed in Jesus our Lord. I believe that the Good News of Christ was given to mankind in the beginning, for the only way a man can be a Son of God is revealed with great clarity in the New Testament.

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.""

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"

Its obvious what caused the Lords displeasure, those Sons of God, (The pre flood believers in Jesus) went and took pagan wives.
Yes I truly believe that Jesus our Lord was known of from the very beginning when our first parents were put out of Eden. I believe that Noah also took this most precious of truths with him across the great flood.
We can view this in our times, the world is split into two camps, those that believe in Jesus our Lord are the Sons and daughters of God, those that do not accept Him are the sons and daughters of men.

You are on the right track. Sons of Adam are the sons of God.

[Shawn Henry]

‘angels who did not keep their domain’

Angels who did not keep their domain sounds like they didn't keep their first estate.

Also, the thought of two lines of seed reminds me of enmity being placed between Eve's seed and Lucifer's seed. Everyone has believed Lucifer's seed to simply mean followers, but why make a comparison between Eve's literal seed and Lucifer's figurative seed? That's a bad comparison. At face value, it means Lucifer had seed.

It also appears the flood didn't wipe out this line of giants, because they were also present after the flood, unless that is a translation error.

[Shawn Henry]

To summarize the Confessions of the Watcher.

Thanks for the summarization.

The story narrative, however, is very very close to the Divine Counsel narration from Deuteronomy 32, Psalm 82, and 1st Enoch Fallen Watchers/grigori. so close they seem to be talking about the same series of events, but from different povs.

This reminds me too of the Divine Counsel.

On a side note, the great men of renown, were said to be when Cali ordered his staff ( I think) to procreate with human women, in order to create a caste of sons to influence the nations and the tribes.

This makes sense.

West vs east begins to take on different overtones now.

Yeah, this makes it sound much more tolerable for those who were placed under a different law. Reminds me of the BoM where it says where no law is given there is no punishment.

[Ymarsakar]

The presentation is mostly harmonious with my pov, as well.

The presenter gives great insights concerning why the Watchers (Caligastia's staff and administration company) decided to usurp the dominion of man. they needed to directly influence and command the nations, which is kind of difficult when you are disembodied voices floating around or something else prevents Caligastia from "descending" into the mortal realm.

THe Watchers were said to descend, but they seemed to get stuck here as a result.

He makes a great point that "domain" is the Greek word for body/house. He connects it to a new testament line as well that uses the same Greek word for body/domain.

There are many saints who report encounters with angels. They seeml ike normal humans at first, but then they disappear very quickly and is right there when needed to say something.

This would most likely be the midwayers, the half angels.

This presentation by Tim Alberino, author of "Empire of the Gods" (which is also the title of this presentation) covers this topic in great detail with in-depth research where he connects ancient anthropological detail with the creation and flood stories. His presentation begins at the 2.0 minute mark. This video is worth every minute of your time. It gives a whole new bent on Christ's description of the last days being "as in the days of Noah".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0Kd7-K8dU

[FrankOne]

In the book of Jasher, there are more details on this than in Genesis.

If memory serves, it is specifically stated there that it was this "error" which caused 'HVH to flood the world.

My guess in a nutshell:

The Sons of God were a highly evolved race which came from another planetary system. They upset the evolutionary apple cart on earth and also were a thorn in 'HVH's side. They were teaching advanced concepts to a barbaric people which weren't ready for them. They were interlopers. 'HVH killed them and their offspring.

right out of a star trek episode.

[Ymarsakar]

In the book of Jasher, there are more details on this than in Genesis.

If memory serves, it is specifically stated there that it was this "error" which caused 'HVH to flood the world.

My guess in a nutshell:

The Sons of God were a highly evolved race which came from another planetary system. They upset the evolutionary apple cart on earth and also were a thorn in 'HVH's side. They were teaching advanced concepts to a barbaric people which weren't ready for them. They were interlopers. 'HVH killed them and their offspring.

right out of a star trek episode.

Yes, Georgia was a watcher that joined Caligastia's rebellion for the desired increased upliftment of mankind.

While they don't utilize the term "prime directive" that is in essence what Caligastia and Lucifer was rebelling against. They felt they were being constrained too much in uplifting the mortals and that each prince should be given more autonomy to try out "new stuff". New stuff that hasn't been proven to work on 100k worlds.

The story of how they engineered their bodies to last 500k years, also sounds very sci fi and not very religious.

The video linked above right under my first post is very good. It is an hour plus though.

Btw, "prince" would be the "prince of this world" as referred to in Ephesians 6:12. And definitely the body of these watchers don't seem to be made out of flesh and blood either. But something different, like silicone or crystal or aether or plasma.

The presentation directly mentions his theory that these Watchers are trying to mimick what happened on Mars.

There are 5 books in the series and I only finished one, the last one, and parts of another 2. So that is why I haven't done a book review. There are a lot of stuff I still need to read first, like Georgia's "interview" with Lucifer. That will give me a better lock on who this Lucifer character is.

[Niemand]

Why were the Indian religions harmonious and very resistant to holy wars, while the Western religions are very prone to holy wars of extermination? The angels did it ; )

Partly because Hinduism was never really a single religion, so much as a number of different beliefs which happen to be found in India. It resembles the religions of Ancient Rome and Egypt more than a modern Abrahamic religion – multiple differing cults and viewpoints and a lot of syncretism.

The system of Hinduism if it could be called such,n attempted to absorb other beliefs, sometimes aggressively. Ashoka spread Buddhism through much of India, but the elite Brahmin caste were not happy at being usurped, so they absorbed some parts of it, and co-opted it back into their system. It survived in the Himalayas and Sri Lanka. Maybe Brahminism is a more accurate description for some forms of Hinduism.

[Ymarsakar]

The funny thing is, I used to be afraid of Lucifer ; )

Haha, oh yea. I'm not sure if this fear was rational or ego based, since I was just reading Book of Mormon and getting used to a personal god in the bible.

Fear of nearly immortal entities that can destroy entire civilizations is perhaps a good rational response. But there are many good reasons I don't fear them now, or whatever they call themselves now.

"Partly because Hinduism was never really a single religion, so much as a number of different beliefs which happen to be found in India."

There were 3 primary lines, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism.

Jainism believed in absolute pacifism even, not harming even insects or suffer karma.

These types also existed in the West, but they were wiped out very early on. What protected Jainism or prevented the Indians from doing a holy war and unifying the religions? It is not like they lacked emperors, warriors, and gold to fund it.

They simply had a different spirit guiding them, or different DNA even.

Hinduism was the most aggressive of the 3, yet Buddhism is still around. Even the Jains are still around, but smaller. India, at least 1000 years ago, could freely have rulers convert from one branch to another. This was a religious tolerance that far exceeded what Europe was capable of until recently.

Nie, any Cathars still left in France? What about bogomists and the churches started by the other 12 disciples in the ME?

Heh.

[abijah]

a+ research video is timestamped

[Niemand]

"Partly because Hinduism was never really a single religion, so much as a number of different beliefs which happen to be found in India."

There were 3 primary lines, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism.

Jainism believed in absolute pacifism even, not harming even insects or suffer karma.

These types also existed in the West, but they were wiped out very early on. What protected Jainism or prevented the Indians from doing a holy war and unifying the religions? It is not like they lacked emperors, warriors, and gold to fund it.

They simply had a different spirit guiding them, or different DNA even.

Hinduism was the most aggressive of the 3, yet Buddhism is still around. India, at least 1000 years ago, could freely have rulers convert from one branch to another.

There are numerous others. Sikhism is one of the more recent ones. The grandchild of Christianity and greatgrandchild of Judaism.

The Jains have always been a minority religion and have never fully taken off. They seem to be a parallel development to Buddhism.

Hinduism isn't a true religion. The main parallel in the west is Roman Catholicism. Hindus in rural areas and of low education worship rocks and trees and local spirits (demons). Brahmins and educated Hindus have a highly developed intellectual forms of Hinduism such as Vedanta (which may be a derivative of Buddhism). Mediaeval European peasants had holy wells and sacred rocks etc and cults of numerous highly localised saints (especially in Celtic areas). The elite Europeans had a more formalised theology with an intellectual underpinning.

There are also numerous local cults (like Roman Catholic saints or Roman deities), and devotional cults to certain gods – there are those who focus on Shivaism, or Lakshmi, or Ganesh(a), or Brahma, or Krishna. Some even focus on Kali.

This was a religious tolerance that far exceeded what Europe was capable of until recently.

Not tolerance but relativism. Hinduism is very good at making arguments that try and claim that all religions either derive from it or agree with it in some way. Some Hindu nationalists can't get their heads around the idea that some things do not come from India or that other people did them first.

[Niemand]

a+ research video is timestamped

I'm glad they've time stamped it, but should point out it's two hours long. (I say this because links don't always indicate the length. I posted a video that was twenty seconds long recently, and have posted others that are four hours long. The thumbnail isn't a good indicator of which is which!)

[TheChristian]

Everything is centred apon and around Jesus of Nazerath. His manifestation in the flesh, His sacrifice for sin apon the cross, His arising from the dead are like unto the middle point of a circle, all time revolves around it.
And so Adam looked forward to the time in the future for his salvation when His God and Saviour would manifest Himself in the flesh apon the earth and bring about redemption, and we in the last days look back in time when God manifest Himself in the flesh also to that redemption act of Calvary for our salvation.
The past and the future all revolves around Calvary.
And so in the beginning Adam the earthly Father of the human race under the direction of Jesus our Lord, taught his children concerning the Good News of Salvation and to look to the future, the middle of time when God Himself would suffer and die for the sins of creation, thus demolish death and sin thru his victory apon the Cross and His arising from the dead.
And so Adam and all his children that accepted the Good News in their day were given the power to become the Sons and daughters of God, they were Born again, became new creations in christ Jesus, much the same as we read of in the New testament when the holy ghost fell apon the first disciples.
Abraham also knew, for was he not the friend of God our Lord Jesus, so he had accepted Him as his God and Saviour, indeed our Lord declared in his mortal ministry that Abraham rejoiced to see our Lords day and he did.
The New testament tells us that the Testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy, so it must needs be that every man and woman from the days of Adam to our very day that had the Spirit of Prophecy have a testimony to one degree or another in Jesus our Lord and so the ancients whom had this gift would of known about Jesus as stated to one degree or another.
This made them Sons and daughters of God.
I speak now as a very ordinary bible believing Christian, have not any of you noticed that when ever the Holy ghost falls apon you, wether it be to a great degree or little, what is the first thing that is impressed apon you more brightly and vividly than all else He brings?
Its a very vibrant, glowing witness that Jesus of Nazerath is a living reality, for that is his main mission, his joy to do, and so it must be that when this very same Spirit fell apon the ancient peoples, said Spirit would of done exactly the same, He would of born witness to the Lord Jesus the great God, King, Redeemer and everlasting Father of all creation.
Its so easy for our human minds thinking we are spiritual, delving into mysteries, seeking always deep and profound seemingly wise explanations that tickle our ears and please human logic, that promote in us a false sense of pride in our supposedly superiour wisdom, which truly leads us further and further away from the very simple truths of Salvation.
A classic example of this is the Jewish sages whom feasted themselves apon ancient mysteries and delighted in taking the history of their forefathers and elevating themselves above all others with their rendings of the scripture.
Jesus said this of them...

"You pour over the scriptures thinking you have Eternal life, but all the time they are pointing to Me!"

Always look for Jesus of Nazerath in the Scriptures and I tell you in all sincerity, you will truly find Him were ever you look. He alone is the one to seek. Let all the Sons and daughters of God say Amen to this!

[Shawn Henry]

Always look for Jesus of Nazerath in the Scriptures and I tell you in all sincerity, you will truly find Him were ever you look. He alone is the one to seek.

Behind your words is the typical implied belief that Jesus cares for his people and took a crap on all other peoples. He is the one who authorized them to be taught what they are taught. Most aren't ready to accept him, but they might be ready to accept something that will eventually lead them to him.

This is how a master teacher works. He gives us all what we are able to handle in an effort to bring us all to him.

Try walking into an Elementary School and teaching college math. You will fail all your students.

Of course, his is the only name whereby salvation comes, but many have to be brought up to that point.

[onefour1]

I've gone over this before somewhere on these threads. Before Jesus, no premortal man or any man that had come to earth and died had yet resurrected. Thus they had no body to be able to have sexual relationships with women on this earth. Thus, no angel that was a premortal spirit or any man or woman who had died could have come back and had a sexual relationship with women living on earth to have children. Thus, it was the righteous who were known as the sons of God and the unrighteous who were known as the daughters of men. This was taught by Spencer W. Kimball in his great work, "Miracle of Forgiveness".

Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

All angels who administer to this earth belong to this earth. In other words, they are to receive or have received their bodies on this earth. Thus if Jesus was the first to resurrect, no angels before his days who were not men on earth could have had sex and offspring through mortal women on this earth.

[Shawn Henry]

I've gone over this before somewhere on these threads. Before Jesus, no premortal man or any man that had come to earth and died had yet resurrected. Thus they had no body to be able to have sexual relationships with women on this earth. Thus, no angel that was a premortal spirit or any man or woman who had died could have come back and had a sexual relationship with women living on earth to have children. Thus, it was the righteous who were known as the sons of God and the unrighteous who were known as the daughters of men. This was taught by Spencer W. Kimball in his great work, "Miracle of Forgiveness".

Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

All angels who administer to this earth belong to this earth. In other words, they are to receive or have received their bodies on this earth. Thus if Jesus was the first to resurrect, no angels before his days who were not men on earth could have had sex and offspring through mortal women on this earth.

You're conflating resurrection with incarnating. Incarnating is the carnal flesh the scriptures speak of. Resurrected flesh is not subject to the natural man. Satan and his seed may very well have a way to incarnate outside of God's foreordained way.

Miracle of Forgiveness has been memory-holed by the brethren.

[onefour1]

I've gone over this before somewhere on these threads. Before Jesus, no premortal man or any man that had come to earth and died had yet resurrected. Thus they had no body to be able to have sexual relationships with women on this earth. Thus, no angel that was a premortal spirit or any man or woman who had died could have come back and had a sexual relationship with women living on earth to have children. Thus, it was the righteous who were known as the sons of God and the unrighteous who were known as the daughters of men. This was taught by Spencer W. Kimball in his great work, "Miracle of Forgiveness".

Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

All angels who administer to this earth belong to this earth. In other words, they are to receive or have received their bodies on this earth. Thus if Jesus was the first to resurrect, no angels before his days who were not men on earth could have had sex and offspring through mortal women on this earth.

You're conflating resurrection with incarnating. Incarnating is the carnal flesh the scriptures speak of. Resurrected flesh is not subject to the natural man. Satan and his seed may very well have a way to incarnate outside of God's foreordained way.

Miracle of Forgiveness has been memory-holed by the brethren.

It is basic doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that Satan and his minions were denied the ability to gain bodies of flesh and bones so I don't believe they have the ability to take on flesh and bones of their own will. This is why they try to possess others bodies. Its not a power that they have. Not sure what you mean by "memory holed".

[TheChristian]

Always look for Jesus of Nazerath in the Scriptures and I tell you in all sincerity, you will truly find Him were ever you look. He alone is the one to seek.

Behind your words is the typical implied belief that Jesus cares for his people and took a crap on all other peoples. He is the one who authorized them to be taught what they are taught. Most aren't ready to accept him, but they might be ready to accept something that will eventually lead them to him.

This is how a master teacher works. He gives us all what we are able to handle in an effort to bring us all to him.

Try walking into an Elementary School and teaching college math. You will fail all your students.

Of course, his is the only name whereby salvation comes, but many have to be brought up to that point.

My brother the Jesus I believe in loves all His creation, the proof of that was Calvary, let us go back in time with the knowlegde we have now, let us look up to the blood splattered figure hanging apon the Cross whom was suffering not just for a few chosen friends, or some inner circle of followers, but also for the indifferent and his fiercest enemies that had Him nailed there, yes for all His fallen creation.
My words testify of a Jesus that loves his creation so much He was willing to shed His precious blood that they all might have life and that abundantly.
And the only message that can bring this about is to preach the Good News of Christ crucified to every man and woman apon this earth, no other message can bring them eternal happiness.That is the Royal command of our Risen Lord.
A watered down Gospel, a set of man made philosophies, no matter how well meaning or pleasing to the logic of the human mind cannot save any soul.
Like Paul we ought to preach Christ and Him crucified, which is utter foolishness to the learned and the wise in their own sight and a stumbling block to the religious men of this world.

It is the devil that would teach, "Dont give them the Message of Christ, they are not ready for it, nor can they accept it, he would relish the idea of giving them any teaching but that of Christ Jesus."
We ought never to underestimate the dynamic life saving power of the preaching of the Cross to those that dwell in this dieing and decaying world.

[Ymarsakar]

Celebrating crucifixion gives energy to the qabal in torturing the saints. A kind of martyr complex. Those that want to be tortured by the qabal will have their wishes granted since the qabal likes that too. The victim found a victimizer.

I prefer to celebrage jeshua s life instead of his mortal weaknesses.

[Shawn Henry]

It is basic doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that Satan and his minions were denied the ability to gain bodies of flesh and bones so I don't believe they have the ability to take on flesh and bones of their own will. This is why they try to possess others bodies. Its not a power that they have. Not sure what you mean by "memory holed".

I know it's basic doctrine, but it's not doctrinal, meaning the scriptures seem to indicate otherwise. It is more accurate to say it is common belief or a learned precept.

The brethren do not let Deseret Book sell Miracle of Forgiveness. They are embarrassed by how it is fodder for the critics. They more or less disavow it.

[Shawn Henry]

It is the devil that would teach, "Dont give them the Message of Christ, they are not ready for it, nor can they accept it, he would relish the idea of giving them any teaching but that of Christ Jesus."

Nobody is teaching that. They were given the message of Christ, but they rejected it, so the Lord gave them a much lesser portion of the word, a portion that they would not reject, so that they would believe that portion and be ready for a greater portion of the word.

It's just like the children of Israel under Moses, they rejected the higher portion and were given the lesser portion. The Lord didn't leave them with nothing as you seem to be advocating.