Give Me Thine Honor

[TheDuke]

Lucifer wanted something for nothing.

However, he lied and said that we could come to mortality and be governed by good instincts such that we wouldn't sin and with his plan we would all return.

Interesting. Got a scripture to support these two statements?

I'm not sure Lucifer wanted something for nothing. I don't recall anywhere it says he was lazy or such?

I don't think Lucifer could lie in the pre-mortal arena. Doesn't seem like that is allowed in god's plans. I don't see this as a viable option. More like he talked of partial truths that resonated well with 1/3 part.

Where did he say we wouldn't sin? He said he would "redeem" all. I don't see much more detail. I guess it would be good to understand his use of "redeem".

Satan told God that he wanted His honor because of his plan, but his plan couldn't work, at all. That is something for nothing. Con artists can sometimes be some of the hardest working people out there. They still are looking for something for nothing.

D&C 93:25 says, "And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning." That would make it seem that he lied in pre-mortality. Also, we know that he lied because the plan he presented in the Grand Council was a complete and total lie.

precisely where does it say Lucifer's plan wouldn't work? it implies it wasn't the best but it doesn't say it would not work for what he was offering. Also, you persist in some feeling of "con" in this event and such yet I see no evidence of lies. Sure we see his actions as "lies" here, but we are talking his actions in "heaven", I don't think the celestial but a spirit place where Jesus was for sure and the great and noble ones. It doesn't say god said "Lucifer you are a liar and con man"? It says he tried to take man's agency. I think your interpretation is typical LDS in nature, which is ok, but shallow. I don't think it has much precision but perhaps it is not important.

I think Lucifer was offering an alternative. But, one that led to another endgame and one that gave benefits to the lower progressed people and limited those with higher potential. As I read D&C 88 says those that failed receive no glory and go back where they came from. Seems that group was not redeemed. Seems for them maybe a "con" as you put it would have been a "win"?

[Atrasado]

Interesting. Got a scripture to support these two statements?

I'm not sure Lucifer wanted something for nothing. I don't recall anywhere it says he was lazy or such?

I don't think Lucifer could lie in the pre-mortal arena. Doesn't seem like that is allowed in god's plans. I don't see this as a viable option. More like he talked of partial truths that resonated well with 1/3 part.

Where did he say we wouldn't sin? He said he would "redeem" all. I don't see much more detail. I guess it would be good to understand his use of "redeem".

Satan told God that he wanted His honor because of his plan, but his plan couldn't work, at all. That is something for nothing. Con artists can sometimes be some of the hardest working people out there. They still are looking for something for nothing.

D&C 93:25 says, "And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning." That would make it seem that he lied in pre-mortality. Also, we know that he lied because the plan he presented in the Grand Council was a complete and total lie.

precisely where does it say Lucifer's plan wouldn't work? it implies it wasn't the best but it doesn't say it would not work for what he was offering. Also, you persist in some feeling of "con" in this event and such yet I see no evidence of lies. Sure we see his actions as "lies" here, but we are talking his actions in "heaven", I don't think the celestial but a spirit place where Jesus was for sure and the great and noble ones. It doesn't say god said "Lucifer you are a liar and con man"? It says he tried to take man's agency. I think your interpretation is typical LDS in nature, which is ok, but shallow. I don't think it has much precision but perhaps it is not important.

I think Lucifer was offering an alternative. But, one that led to another endgame and one that gave benefits to the lower progressed people and limited those with higher potential. As I read D&C 88 says those that failed receive no glory and go back where they came from. Seems that group was not redeemed. Seems for them maybe a "con" as you put it would have been a "win"?

Satan's plan couldn't have worked in the sense that it would have made everyone miserable forever. It says in 2 Nephi 9 that absent the Atonement of Jesus Christ (the Plan of Salvation, in other words),

our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself.

Satan's plan would make us miserable and it has made him miserable and it would have always done so, even if he could have made it happen which he couldn't. Satan could not understand the mind of God, so in his pride and madness he attacked God and in doing so caused himself endless misery.

Anyways, that's all for me. Have a good Sabbath.

[Silver Pie]

. . . only He could come down to this earth He had created and pay the price of sin, endure the heavy load of his creations sins apon the Cross and only He being God could arise from the dead.
Yes it would have to be God Himself to come to this earth to be the perfect sacrifice, no other in the heavens were worthy.
. . .
Neither satan or any other angelic being could of paid the price of our sin apon the cross, nor could they of arisen from the dead. They had not the perfection, the power or the glory.

Even from the LDS perspective of God the Father and Jesus the Son being separate entities (though one God [title of God] ), this makes a lot of sense.

I don't think satan could have done it (the atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane and the death on the cross), because he (being self-serving) could not have gone through with it. Jesus, being the God who created this planet and who was full of love and self-sacrifice, succeeded because of who and what he was at his core, where the devil would have failed because of who and what he was at his core.

I also think the devil never intended to perform the sacrifices Jesus went through. Perhaps he wanted to "be somebody" in heaven. Perhaps he saw how easily the Father was obeyed, and he wanted that power. He wanted to be obeyed by the elements. But it would not have worked because he didn't have the love and selflessness required.

Somehow, though, he managed to reach the level of "an angel in authority". (I forget the scripture reference for this.)

[onefour1]

. . . only He could come down to this earth He had created and pay the price of sin, endure the heavy load of his creations sins apon the Cross and only He being God could arise from the dead.
Yes it would have to be God Himself to come to this earth to be the perfect sacrifice, no other in the heavens were worthy.
. . .
Neither satan or any other angelic being could of paid the price of our sin apon the cross, nor could they of arisen from the dead. They had not the perfection, the power or the glory.

Even from the LDS perspective of God the Father and Jesus the Son being separate entities (though one God [title of God] ), this makes a lot of sense.

I don't think satan could have done it (the atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane and the death on the cross), because he (being self-serving) could not have gone through with it. Jesus, being the God who created this planet and who was full of love and self-sacrifice, succeeded because of who and what he was at his core, where the devil would have failed because of who and what he was at his core.

I also think the devil never intended to perform the sacrifices Jesus went through. Perhaps he wanted to "be somebody" in heaven. Perhaps he saw how easily the Father was obeyed, and he wanted that power. He wanted to be obeyed by the elements. But it would not have worked because he didn't have the love and selflessness required.

Somehow, though, he managed to reach the level of "an angel in authority". (I forget the scripture reference for this.)

Maybe after understanding what sacrifice was necessary of a Savior, Lucifer wanted no part of it and thus devised his own plan which circumvented requiring a savior. He wanted to be the Son with all the glory but maybe he didn't want to put forth the love and devotion by going through such a painful and trying sacrifice. His desire for power and glory was great but his love and self sacrifice was lacking. This is definitely an interesting thought.

[mudflap]

Joseph in the King Follett discourse is recorded as saying:

The contention in heaven was this: Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved, and the devil said he could save them all. The grand council gave in for Jesus Christ. So the devil rebelled against God and fell, with all who put up their heads for him. All sins shall be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost.

I do not believe the idea that the devil offered to save all people through restricting choice, but rather to save all people by forgiving them in their sins (note agency is still destroyed if you are not responsible for the natural consequences of your choices). And not just regular sins that afflict us all here in mortality, but the worst sins, deliberate rebellion against God and Christ, to seek their overthrow and destruction.

It seems clear to me that this is exactly what Satan wanted to do -
supporting scripture:

Moses 4:3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him....

It wasn't about forgiveness without repentance, it was about complete control of choice (the "destruction of Agency").

Since we know the war in Heaven has since been moved to a new location (Earth), we can see battles over agency still playing out all around us - politicians restricting our freedom by claiming "it's for your own safety" is one of my favorites.

And I'll tell you why 1/3 chose Satan's plan - it was guaranteed (they thought) salvation - no chance of failure. Under God's plan, there is definitely a chance of failure. It's a very appealing (lie). The winner would've been Satan. and that's it.

You can see that play out all the time on Earth as well - promises of safety and security:
"Everyone wins"
"A prize for every participant"
"guaranteed Universal Basic Income"
"No child left behind"
"free healthcare"

Don't forget the most recent: equity vs equality:

The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances.

Very appealing, right?

How many of these have we seen? It never works out for anyone's betterment - because it's all part of Satan's war against agency. He's the self-titled "god of this world" (yet another lie- man was given dominion over the earth, not Satan).

[Cruiserdude]

Joseph in the King Follett discourse is recorded as saying:

The contention in heaven was this: Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved, and the devil said he could save them all. The grand council gave in for Jesus Christ. So the devil rebelled against God and fell, with all who put up their heads for him. All sins shall be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost.

I do not believe the idea that the devil offered to save all people through restricting choice, but rather to save all people by forgiving them in their sins (note agency is still destroyed if you are not responsible for the natural consequences of your choices). And not just regular sins that afflict us all here in mortality, but the worst sins, deliberate rebellion against God and Christ, to seek their overthrow and destruction.

It seems clear to me that this is exactly what Satan wanted to do -
supporting scripture:

Moses 4:3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him....

It wasn't about forgiveness without repentance, it was about complete control of choice (the "destruction of Agency").

Since we know the war in Heaven has since been moved to a new location (Earth), we can see battles over agency still playing out all around us - politicians restricting our freedom by claiming "it's for your own safety" is one of my favorites.

And I'll tell you why 1/3 chose Satan's plan - it was guaranteed (they thought) salvation - no chance of failure. Under God's plan, there is definitely a chance of failure. It's a very appealing (lie). The winner would've been Satan. and that's it.

You can see that play out all the time on Earth as well - promises of safety and security:
"Everyone wins"
"A prize for every participant"
"guaranteed Universal Basic Income"
"No child left behind"
"free healthcare"

Don't forget the most recent: equity vs equality:

The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances.

Very appealing, right?

How many of these have we seen? It never works out for anyone's betterment - because it's all part of Satan's war against agency. He's the self-titled "god of this world" (yet another lie- man was given dominion over the earth, not Satan).

Agency lies at the very core of the truth. Agency will ALWAYS be a key, critical part of our eternal existence.

[TheDuke]

Satan told God that he wanted His honor because of his plan, but his plan couldn't work, at all. That is something for nothing. Con artists can sometimes be some of the hardest working people out there. They still are looking for something for nothing.

D&C 93:25 says, "And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning." That would make it seem that he lied in pre-mortality. Also, we know that he lied because the plan he presented in the Grand Council was a complete and total lie.

precisely where does it say Lucifer's plan wouldn't work? it implies it wasn't the best but it doesn't say it would not work for what he was offering. Also, you persist in some feeling of "con" in this event and such yet I see no evidence of lies. Sure we see his actions as "lies" here, but we are talking his actions in "heaven", I don't think the celestial but a spirit place where Jesus was for sure and the great and noble ones. It doesn't say god said "Lucifer you are a liar and con man"? It says he tried to take man's agency. I think your interpretation is typical LDS in nature, which is ok, but shallow. I don't think it has much precision but perhaps it is not important.

I think Lucifer was offering an alternative. But, one that led to another endgame and one that gave benefits to the lower progressed people and limited those with higher potential. As I read D&C 88 says those that failed receive no glory and go back where they came from. Seems that group was not redeemed. Seems for them maybe a "con" as you put it would have been a "win"?

Satan's plan couldn't have worked in the sense that it would have made everyone miserable forever. It says in 2 Nephi 9 that absent the Atonement of Jesus Christ (the Plan of Salvation, in other words),

our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself.

Satan's plan would make us miserable and it has made him miserable and it would have always done so, even if he could have made it happen which he couldn't. Satan could not understand the mind of God, so in his pride and madness he attacked God and in doing so caused himself endless misery.

Anyways, that's all for me. Have a good Sabbath.

ok, but don't mix Nephi talking of this earth after the creation was started on Jesus' plan as in the same conceptual basis is "if" we had been on another plan. I don't think anyone, let alone 1/3 part would really accept a plan to be miserable for eternity. They couldn't really be that stupid could they?

[sonofliberty]

Where does HF get His honor and glory?

Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

HF is glorified by bringing to pass the eternal life of His spirit offspring. The more of His children that become like Him the greater His glory.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Where does HF reside? The celestial kingdom. Therefore, the more children who qualify for the celestial kingdom the greater HF’s glory.

D.C. 88:22, 38-39
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

D&C 84:44
44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

If we are forced to obey the commandments, we are not living a celestial law but instead a terrestrial law. Thus, Lucifer’s plan was to save all mankind in the terrestrial kingdom. Only Lucifer would have abided the celestial law. Lucifer would have obtained the celestial kingdom and all HF has. Then when he created worlds without end and sent a savior and ultimately had exalted children, he would end up surpassing HF in glory because he would have more exalted offspring.

[Silver Pie]

Maybe after understanding what sacrifice was necessary of a Savior, Lucifer wanted no part of it and thus devised his own plan which circumvented requiring a savior. He wanted to be the Son with all the glory but maybe he didn't want to put forth the love and devotion by going through such a painful and trying sacrifice. His desire for power and glory was great but his love and self sacrifice was lacking.

This really makes a lot of sense.

[Silver Pie]

They couldn't really be that stupid could they?

They could have been. Or greatly deceived about exactly how it would have worked.

[Silver Pie]

Only Lucifer would have abided the celestial law. Lucifer would have obtained the celestial kingdom and all HF has. Then when he created worlds without end and sent a savior and ultimately had exalted children, he would end up surpassing HF in glory because he would have more exalted offspring.

This may have been what he thought, but he obviously couldn't do what was required of a Savior, because he lacked the love and selflessness. His plan would have failed bigtime, just like it always does here.

[TheDuke]

Where does HF get His honor and glory?

Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

HF is glorified by bringing to pass the eternal life of His spirit offspring. The more of His children that become like Him the greater His glory.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Where does HF reside? The celestial kingdom. Therefore, the more children who qualify for the celestial kingdom the greater HF’s glory.

D.C. 88:22, 38-39
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

D&C 84:44
44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

If we are forced to obey the commandments, we are not living a celestial law but instead a terrestrial law. Thus, Lucifer’s plan was to save all mankind in the terrestrial kingdom. Only Lucifer would have abided the celestial law. Lucifer would have obtained the celestial kingdom and all HF has. Then when he created worlds without end and sent a savior and ultimately had exalted children, he would end up surpassing HF in glory because he would have more exalted offspring.

good thoughts but a couple of questions and comments. I'm not sure "glory" and "honor" are the same thing, but I'm not saying they aren't either. If I agree they are then the more children brought forth the more glory, but if not to god, then to Lucifer.

but, why do you say god's only glory (or here honor) is in the celestial realm? That is the purest and most everlasting, but terrestrial and telestial are kingdoms of "glory" therefore they must have or be or contain glory. And it is the glory of god. I feel like anyone who gets into a kingdom of glory adds to gods' glory. And if you buy JS' KFD, then they will all some day be in the celestial anyway. So, if they're in the terrestrial today then their a bird in the bush, so to speak.

Where do you get the understanding (not challenging just wondering) that Lucifer would be in the celestial and his followers in the terrestrial? I mean the followers must have a testimony of Christ according to D&C 76 (but then that is in Jesus' plan), so you're assuming under Lucifer's plan they have a testimony of him and that is the same thing? (does follow logic anyway). I don't see how Lucifer got into the celestial? was he already? did he do something like Jesus in a lower form to get back?

Anyway interesting inputs, just trying to see some backup?

[TheDuke]

. . . only He could come down to this earth He had created and pay the price of sin, endure the heavy load of his creations sins apon the Cross and only He being God could arise from the dead.
Yes it would have to be God Himself to come to this earth to be the perfect sacrifice, no other in the heavens were worthy.
. . .
Neither satan or any other angelic being could of paid the price of our sin apon the cross, nor could they of arisen from the dead. They had not the perfection, the power or the glory.

Even from the LDS perspective of God the Father and Jesus the Son being separate entities (though one God [title of God] ), this makes a lot of sense.

I don't think satan could have done it (the atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane and the death on the cross), because he (being self-serving) could not have gone through with it. Jesus, being the God who created this planet and who was full of love and self-sacrifice, succeeded because of who and what he was at his core, where the devil would have failed because of who and what he was at his core.

I also think the devil never intended to perform the sacrifices Jesus went through. Perhaps he wanted to "be somebody" in heaven. Perhaps he saw how easily the Father was obeyed, and he wanted that power. He wanted to be obeyed by the elements. But it would not have worked because he didn't have the love and selflessness required.

Somehow, though, he managed to reach the level of "an angel in authority". (I forget the scripture reference for this.)

Maybe after understanding what sacrifice was necessary of a Savior, Lucifer wanted no part of it and thus devised his own plan which circumvented requiring a savior. He wanted to be the Son with all the glory but maybe he didn't want to put forth the love and devotion by going through such a painful and trying sacrifice. His desire for power and glory was great but his love and self sacrifice was lacking. This is definitely an interesting thought.

I certainly agree with this in principle. Lucifer obviously wanted to be the son, but he also either wasn't capable, wasn't allowed or didn't want to make the sacrifice necessary.

However, if he was a son of the morning, he made some sacrifices before and gained much glory.

I guess I think he honestly and truthfully offered another plan. but the plan had limitations and while best for some, perhaps a few, wasn't best for everyone, and wasn't the best for the father either as he would take the father's glory in this.

[mudflap]

I don't think anyone, let alone 1/3 part would really accept a plan to be miserable for eternity. They couldn't really be that stupid could they?

omg - did you see that last presidential election we had here in the US?

the stupid is deep in this country.....

[TheDuke]

So from the last several posts comments. If we accept the honor of god is the same as the glory of god. And if the glory of god having offspring and bringing them back into the presence of the gods. And if Lucifer wanted the father's glory. Then Lucifer wanted to have and bring offspring back to the presence of the gods.

Which thing is, as stated above by several, not possible; as the children would not have been able to become perfected w/o agency. Hence, many on this thread say he "lied" as his plan had not ability to succeed.

I just don't see him being able to lie in the presence of the father and/or great and noble ones. Sure he is a liar here, but we are not where the father is; we are not in a council of the gods; we are cutoff and are being tested to know good from evil. It does say he "became" not he was a liar. Anyway, hard to know how anyone could choose anything in the council if lies were pervasive?

I'm still of the mind that Lucifer offered an honest but less-than-filling plan. but it seems he could not get his children back to the celestial. So, he must have offered another destination, but one that is greater than where they came from but less than the potential of some; yet better downside for some as well. To me there must be kingdoms w/o limits, some are god's with his glory; some are another's with that persons glory. The glory of the latter being less than god's. But, still these lower glories must have some sort of glory above that which they had before the council. This is what is says in D&C 88:24,32. Seems to me that is all Lucifer could offer.

[TheDuke]

I don't think anyone, let alone 1/3 part would really accept a plan to be miserable for eternity. They couldn't really be that stupid could they?

omg - did you see that last presidential election we had here in the US?

the stupid is deep in this country.....

please note: I didn't say they weren't stupid. I said "that" stupid. The comment I was referring to was them openly choosing to be miserable. Yes, I saw the last election. and I don't think more than a few intentionally voted to be made miserable. they voted with their lazy, empty wallets. They want the opposite of misery and think (as it turns out quite rightly so at this time) someone will give them everything they want as they are entitled to it. I'm not convinced god ran a show up there that would allow that much of a freak election scam. I think god's ballot boxes were under constant surveillance.

[sonofliberty]

Where does HF get His honor and glory?

Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

HF is glorified by bringing to pass the eternal life of His spirit offspring. The more of His children that become like Him the greater His glory.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Where does HF reside? The celestial kingdom. Therefore, the more children who qualify for the celestial kingdom the greater HF’s glory.

D.C. 88:22, 38-39
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

D&C 84:44
44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

If we are forced to obey the commandments, we are not living a celestial law but instead a terrestrial law. Thus, Lucifer’s plan was to save all mankind in the terrestrial kingdom. Only Lucifer would have abided the celestial law. Lucifer would have obtained the celestial kingdom and all HF has. Then when he created worlds without end and sent a savior and ultimately had exalted children, he would end up surpassing HF in glory because he would have more exalted offspring.

good thoughts but a couple of questions and comments. I'm not sure "glory" and "honor" are the same thing, but I'm not saying they aren't either. If I agree they are then the more children brought forth the more glory, but if not to god, then to Lucifer.

but, why do you say god's only glory (or here honor) is in the celestial realm? That is the purest and most everlasting, but terrestrial and telestial are kingdoms of "glory" therefore they must have or be or contain glory. And it is the glory of god. I feel like anyone who gets into a kingdom of glory adds to gods' glory. And if you buy JS' KFD, then they will all some day be in the celestial anyway. So, if they're in the terrestrial today then their a bird in the bush, so to speak.

Where do you get the understanding (not challenging just wondering) that Lucifer would be in the celestial and his followers in the terrestrial? I mean the followers must have a testimony of Christ according to D&C 76 (but then that is in Jesus' plan), so you're assuming under Lucifer's plan they have a testimony of him and that is the same thing? (does follow logic anyway). I don't see how Lucifer got into the celestial? was he already? did he do something like Jesus in a lower form to get back?

Anyway interesting inputs, just trying to see some backup?

I’m not saying Lucifer had a workable plan that would actually accomplish what he set out to do. I was merely showing by scriptures a theory of how Lucifer could think his plan would work and he could take HF’s honor and glory. I think he would have assumed by being the “son” he would become celestial as he was the only one with choice who could choose to abide a celestial law.

Obviously Lucifer’s understanding of the law and agency was flawed fundamentally or he wouldn’t have ended up where he did. He thought he was on par with Jehovah but clearly was not.

[jdt]

Joseph in the King Follett discourse is recorded as saying:

The contention in heaven was this: Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved, and the devil said he could save them all. The grand council gave in for Jesus Christ. So the devil rebelled against God and fell, with all who put up their heads for him. All sins shall be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost.

I do not believe the idea that the devil offered to save all people through restricting choice, but rather to save all people by forgiving them in their sins (note agency is still destroyed if you are not responsible for the natural consequences of your choices). And not just regular sins that afflict us all here in mortality, but the worst sins, deliberate rebellion against God and Christ, to seek their overthrow and destruction.

It seems clear to me that this is exactly what Satan wanted to do -
supporting scripture:

Moses 4:3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him....

It wasn't about forgiveness without repentance, it was about complete control of choice (the "destruction of Agency").

Since we know the war in Heaven has since been moved to a new location (Earth), we can see battles over agency still playing out all around us - politicians restricting our freedom by claiming "it's for your own safety" is one of my favorites.

And I'll tell you why 1/3 chose Satan's plan - it was guaranteed (they thought) salvation - no chance of failure. Under God's plan, there is definitely a chance of failure. It's a very appealing (lie). The winner would've been Satan. and that's it.

You can see that play out all the time on Earth as well - promises of safety and security:
"Everyone wins"
"A prize for every participant"
"guaranteed Universal Basic Income"
"No child left behind"
"free healthcare"

Don't forget the most recent: equity vs equality:

The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances.

Very appealing, right?

How many of these have we seen? It never works out for anyone's betterment - because it's all part of Satan's war against agency. He's the self-titled "god of this world" (yet another lie- man was given dominion over the earth, not Satan).

Interesting that you claim it is about forcing choice not ignoring the natural consequences of choice, but the examples you give are a mix of ignoring the natural consequences of choice.
In a kid's basketball game, there are no adults who follow every shot and put the ball in the basket (forcing success), instead the adults just ignore whether the ball went in the basket and call people winners (ignoring the natural consequences)
Same with giving prizes to everyone - the games play out as they normally do, they just say that people's performance did not really matter.
UBI and free healthcare - remove the choice altogether (as opposed forcing a "good choice") and just give benefits.
You did not mention it, but minimum wage is not about forcing people into high skill/wage careers, it is removing the natural consequence of low skill jobs, and just giving the high wages to low skill jobs (again ignoring natural consequences)
No child left behind is somewhere in between, there is also an aspect of force (we will give those schools so much money that teachers and facilities will force a good result, but it has not really worked, so we are left things like giving everyone passing grades, removing standardized tests, etc. that either remove metrics or make the results irrelevant).