"I... have beheld for the last fifty years of my life, the fulfilment of that prophecy". Rocky Mountains

[kirtland r.m.]

Some of Joseph Smith’s Prophecies regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its rise in the Rocky Mountains

Here is a sample. Wilford Woodruff reports on Joseph’s vision for the Church:
Wilford Woodruff

On Sunday (April 26, 1834) night the Prophet called us all who held the Priesthood to gather into the little log school house they had there. It was a small house, perhaps 14 feet square. But it held the whole of the Priesthood of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who were then in the town of Kirtland, and who had gathered together to go off in Zion’s Camp. That was the first time I ever saw Oliver Cowdery, or heard him speak; the first time I ever saw Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, and the two Pratts, and Orson Hyde and many others. There were no Apostles in the Church then except Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. When we got together the Prophet called upon the Elders of Israel with him to bear testimony of this work. Those that I have named spoke, and a good many that I have not named, bore their testimonies.

When they got through the Prophet said, “Brethren I have been very much edified and instructed in your testimonies here tonight, but I want to say to you before the Lord, that you know no more concerning the destinies of this Church and kingdom than a babe upon its mother’s lap. You don’t comprehend it.” I was rather surprised. He said “It is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America—it will fill the world.” Among other things he said, “it will fill the Rocky Mountains. There will be tens of thousands of Latter-days Saints who will be gathered in the Rocky Mountains, and there they will open the door for the establishing of the Gospel among the Lamanites, who will receive the Gospel and their endowments and the blessings of God. This people will go into the Rocky Mountains; they will there build temples to the Most High. They will raise up a posterity there, and the Latter-day Saints who dwell in these mountains will stand in the flesh until the coming of the Son of Man. The Son of Man will come to them while in the Rocky Mountains.”

I name these things because I want to bear testimony before God, angels, and men that mine eyes behold the day, and have beheld for the last fifty years of my life, the fulfilment of that prophecy. I never expected to see the Rocky Mountains when I listened to that man’s voice, but I have, and do today. I will say here that I shall not live to see it, you may not live to see it; but these thousands of Latter-day Saint children that belong to the Sabbath schools, I believe many of them will stand in the flesh when the Lord Jesus Christ visits the Zion of God here in the mountains of Israel.

(Conference Report, 6 April 1898, 57; see also Collected Discourses, edited by Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. (Burbank, California, and Woodland Hills, Utah: B. H. S. Publishing, 1987-92), 3:85).


This is possibly from that same meeting at Kirtland. Joseph looked around very solemnly. It was the first time some of them had ever seen him. Said he, "There are enough here to hold a little meeting." They got a board and put it across two chairs to make seats. Martin Harris sat on a little box at Joseph's feet. They sang and prayed. Joseph got up and began to speak to us. As he began to speak very solemnly and very earnestly, all at once his countenance changed and he stood mute. Those who looked at him that day said there was a search light within him, over every part of his body. I never saw anything like it on the earth. I could not take my eyes off him; he got so white that anyone who saw him would have thought he was transparent. I remember I thought I could almost see the cheek bones through the flesh. I have been through many changes since but that is photographed on my brain. I shall remember it and see in my mind's eye as long as I remain upon the earth. Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU
Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, 1905,
BYU Archives and Manuscripts
Source: Mary Elizabeth Lightner, Address at Brigham Young University,
April 14, 1905, typescript, BYU.

JOSEPH UNDERSTOOD THE INTENTION TO MOVE WEST. In the pioneer journey, coming here, we had to come by faith; we knew nothing about this country, but we intended to come to the mountains. Joseph had organized a company to come here, before his death. He had these things before him, and understood them perfectly.—JD 13:160, December 12, 1869.

THE PROPHET’S KNOWLEDGE. The Prophet Joseph knew what he was doing; in fact, he knew much more than he dared to tell on account of the prejudice, traditions, and unbelief of the people.—JD 24:54, January 27, 1883.

Brigham Young continued the idea of westward immigration, but did not take credit for it. On one occasion he stated that “I did not devise the great scheme of the Lord’s opening the way to send this people to these mountains. Joseph Smith contemplated the move for years before it took place, but he could not get here.” (JD 4:41)

On another occasion he explained: “When the pioneers left the confines of civilization we were not seeking a country on the Pacific, neither a county to the north or south; we were seeking a country which had been pointed out by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the great North American Continent.” (JD 16:207)

Joseph Smith had even drawn out the route which the Saints would follow as they moved to the West. One of the pioneers George H. Goddard… left on record the statement that he was present in the Masonic Hall in Nauvoo when Joseph Smith mapped out on the floor with a piece of chalk the Great Basin of western America, indicating the course they would follow across the continent. (McGavin, E. Cecil, Nauvoo the Beautiful, Salt Lake City, Stevens and Wallis, 1946, p. 127)

Hopkins C. Pendar also reported that “Joseph Smith just before he was killed, made a sketch of the future home of the Saints in the Rocky Mountains and their route or road to that country as he had seen [it] in vision; a map or drawing of it.” A copy of this map was either made by the Prophet or by Levi W. Hancock, and other copies then made from it. Brigham Young kept one copy, and “one was carried by the Mormon Battalion by which they knew where to find the Church, or Salt Lake Valley.” (Diary of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 2, p. 425. A typewritten copy is available in the Special Collections Room of the BYU Library).

Mosiah Hancock, the son of Levi, added more background on this matter by reporting a visit by Joseph Smith to his father’s home, shortly before his departure for Carthage:

The Prophet came to our home and stopped in our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe. I went and got my map for him. “Now,” said he, “I will show you the travels of this people.” He then showed our travels through Iowa, and said, “Here you will make a place for the winter; and here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the Great Salt Lake! You will build cities to the North and to the South, and to the East and to the West; you will then become a great and wealthy people in that land.” (The Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, p. 28. A typewritten copy is available in the Special Collections Room of the BYU Library).https://www.ldsscriptureteachings.org/2 ... mountains/

[Ymarsakar]

It is ironic how the nephite karma repeats itself.

[Shawn Henry]

I would be interested in seeing any contemporaneous accounts of Joseph mentioning the Rocky Mountains. Some say there aren't any and I know we have seen a lot of embellishments for the sake of member's testimonies given decades after the fact.

Jeremiah 17 mentions how Israel will trust in the arm of flesh and "inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited."

I suppose we fulfilled that.

[kirtland r.m.]

I would be interested in seeing any contemporaneous accounts of Joseph mentioning the Rocky Mountains. Some say there aren't any and I know we have seen a lot of embellishments for the sake of member's testimonies given decades after the fact.

Jeremiah 17 mentions how Israel will trust in the arm of flesh and "inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited."

I suppose we fulfilled that.

Are you a Community of Christ member 'cause you sure sound like one? Just asking. Also among others I have posted on the Forum, here are some. Joseph Smith's Prophecies of The LDS Church's Rise in the Rocky Mountains

Joseph Smith's Prophecies of The LDS Church's Rise in the Rocky Mountains
Joseph predicts that the church would move to the Inter mountain West and flourish, but he would not be with them. He also mapped out the path they would end up taking.
Wilford Woodruff gave the following account: "On Sunday night (April 26, 1834) the Prophet called on all who held the Priesthood to gather into the little log school house they had there. It was a small house, perhaps 14 feet square. But it held the whole of the Priesthood of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who were then in the town of Kirtland, and who had gathered together to go off in Zion's camp. That was the first time I ever saw Oliver Cowdery, or heard him speak; the first time I ever saw Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, and the two Pratts, and Orson Hyde and many others. There were no Apostles in the Church then except Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. When we got together the Prophet called upon the Elders of Israel with him to bear testimony of this work. Those that I have named spoke, and a good many that I have not named, bore their testimonies.

"When they got through the Prophet said, 'Brethren I have been very much edified and instructed in your testimonies here tonight, but I want to say to you before the Lord, that you know no more concerning the destinies of this Church and kingdom than a babe upon its mother's lap. You don't comprehend it.'

"I was rather surprised. He said 'it is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America. it will fill the world.' Among other things he said, 'it will fill the Rocky Mountains. There will be tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints who will be gathered in the Rocky Mountains, and there they will open the door for the establishing of the Gospel among the Lamanites, who will receive the Gospel and their endowments and the blessings of God. This people will go into the Rocky Mountains; they will there build temples to the Most High. They will raise up a posterity there, and the Latter-day Saints who dwell in these mountains will stand in the flesh until the coming of the Son of Man. The Son of Man will come to them while in the Rocky Mountains."

On August 6, 1842, Joseph Smith wrote: "I had a conversation with a number of brethren in the shade of the building on the subject of our persecutions in Missouri and the constant annoyance which has followed us since we were driven from that state. I prophesied that the Saints would continue to suffer much affliction and would be driven to the Rocky Mountains, many would apostatize, others would be put to death by our persecutors or lose their lives in consequence of exposure to disease, and some of you will live to go and assist in making settlements and build cities and see the Saints become a mighty people in the midst of the Rocky Mountains."

There are also recollections by other church members of Joseph mapping the path the pioneers would take to the Salt Lake Valley. For example, George H. Goddard, a Mormon Pioneer, testified that he was present in the Nauvoo Masonic Hall when Joseph Smith drew a map on the floor with a piece of chalk the Great Basin of western America, indicating the course they would follow across the plains and into the West.

Another church member, Hopkins C. Pendar, reported that "Joseph Smith just before he was killed, made a sketch of the future home of the Saints in the Rocky Mountains and their route or road to that country as he had seen [it] in vision; a map or drawing of it."

Mosiah Hancock wrote in his journal about Joseph Smith visiting his father, Levi's, home, just prior to his demise in Carthage. Mosiah writes, ". . . the Prophet came to our home and stopped in our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe I went and got my map for him. 'Now,' said he, 'I will show you the travels of this people.' He then showed our travels thru Iowa, and said, 'Here you will make a place for the winter; and here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the Great Salt Lake! You will build cities to the North and to the South, and to the East and to the West; and you will become a great and wealthy people in that land.'" Joseph Smith Looking Westward
Source:
Wilford Woodruff, Conference Report, April 1898, p.57
Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith (Aug. 6, 1842.) (Millennial Star, Vol. xix., page 630)
"The Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock"
E. Cecil McGavin, "Nauvoo the Beautiful" (Salt Lake City, 1946)

In 1832, while in Jackson County, Missouri, the Prophet Joseph gathered a group of children together in the Lyman and Harriet Wight home and blessed them. Paulina Eliza Phelps, who was five at the time, later recalled, “In blessing me he said that I should live to go to the Rocky Mountains. I did not know at the time what the term ‘Rocky Mountains’ meant, but I supposed it to be something connected with the Indians. This frightened me for the reason that I dreaded the very sight of an Indian.” (Signed affidavit by Paulina Elizabeth Phelps Lyman, witnessed on 31 July 1903 by James Jack, notary.)
Hyrum L. Andrus, BYU Studies, Vol. 2, No. 2, p.141
thanks to Moroni 10 for gathering these quotes http://www.moroni10.com/mormon_history/ ... tains.html

August 6, 1842, Joseph Smith recorded another prophecy that the Saints would be driven to the Rocky Mountains: “Saturday, Aug. 6, 1842.—Passed over the river to Montrose, Iowa, in company with General Adams, Colonel Brewer, and others, and witnessed the installation of the officers of the Rising Sun Lodge Ancient York Masons, at Montrose by General James Adams, Deputy Grand-Master of Illinois. While the Deputy Grand-Master was engaged in giving the requisite instructions to the Master-elect, I had a conversation with a number of brethren in the shade of the building on the subject of our persecutions in Missouri and the constant annoyance which has followed us since we were driven from that state. I prophesied that the Saints would continue to suffer much affliction and would be driven to the Rocky Mountains, many would apostatize, others would be put to death by our persecutors or lose their lives in consequence of exposure to disease, and some of you will live to go and assist in making settlements and build cities and see the Saints become a mighty people in the midst of the Rocky Mountains.” (Joseph Smith Papers, History, 1838-1856, Vol. D-1, p. 1362; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1938, 255.)

Anson Call, who was there, recorded more details in his journal about what the Prophet said. (Anson reports a different date, but is describing the same occasion). He wrote:

“With quite a number of his brethren, he [Joseph Smith] crossed the Mississippi River to the town of Montrose to be present at the installment of the Masonic lodge of the ‘rising sun.’ A block schoolhouse had been prepared with shade in front, under which a barrel of ice water [was set]. …[Hyrum Smith, John C. Bennett, and others], including Joseph Smith, remained under the bowery. [As Joseph] was tasting of the cold water,…with the tumbler still in his hand he prophesied that the Saints would yet go to the Rocky Mountains; …Said he, ‘this water tastes much like that of the crystal streams that are running from the snow capped mountains.’

“I had before seen him in a vision and now saw while he was talking his countenance changed to white: not the deadly white of a bloodless face, but a living brilliant white. He seemed absorbed in gazing at something at a great distance and said, ‘I am gazing upon the valleys of those mountains’. This was followed by a vivid description of the scenery of these mountains as I have since become acquainted with [them]. Pointing to Shadrach Roundy and others, he said, ‘There are some men here who shall do a great work in that land.’ Pointing to me he said, ‘There is Anson, he shall go and shall assist in building cities from one end of that country to the other, and you’ rather extending the idea to all those he had spoken of, ‘shall perform as great a work as has been done by man, so that the nation of the earth shall be astonished and many of them will be gathered in that land and assist in building cities and temples, and Israel shall he made to rejoiced’.

“It is impossible to represent in words this scene which is still vivid in my mind, of the grandeur of Joseph’s appearance, his beautiful descriptions of this land and his wonderful prophetic utterances as they emanated from the glorious inspirations that overshadowed him. There was a force and power in his exclamations of which the following is but a faint echo: ‘Oh the beauty of those snow capped mountains. The cool refreshing streams that are running down through those mountains’ gorges.’

“Then gazing in another direction, as if there was a change and locality; ‘Oh the scenes that this people will pass through’ The dead that will lay between here and there.’ Then turning in another direction as if the scene had again changed: ‘Oh the apostasy that will take place before my brethren reach that land’. But he continued, ‘the Priesthood shall prevail over all it’s enemies, triumph over the devil and be established upon the earth never more to be thrown down.’ He then charged us with great force and power, to be faithful in these things…” (Life Sketch of Anson Call, 1810-1890, Pioneer in Building the West.)

Oliver B. Huntington recalled that in 1840, Joseph Smith’s father visited the Huntington home and said that the Lord had informed the Prophet Joseph that the Mormons would stay in Nauvoo only seven years, after which time they would go to the Rocky Mountains:

“My father was living in a good hewed log house in 1840 when one morning as the family all sat at breakfast old Father Joseph Smith, the first Patriarch of the Church and father of the Prophet Joseph, came in and sat down by the fire place, after declining to take breakfast with us, and there he sat some little time in silence looking steadily in the fire. At length he observed that we had been driven from Missouri to this place; with some passing comments, he then asked this question: ‘And how long, Brother Huntington, do you think we will stay here?’ As he asked this question I noticed a strange, good-natured expression creep over his whole being—an air of mysterious joy.

“Father answered, after just a moment’s hesitation, ‘Well, Father Smith, I can’t begin to imagine.’

“’We will just stay here seven years,’ he answered. ‘The Lord has told Joseph so—just seven years,’ he repeated. ‘Now this is not to be made public; I would not like to have this word go any further,’ said the Patriarch, who leaned and relied upon his son Joseph in all spiritual matters as much as boys generally do upon their parents for temporalities. There were then two or three minutes of perfect silence. The old gentleman with more apparent secret joy and caution in his countenance said, ‘And where do you think we will go to when we leave here, Brother Huntington?’ Father did not pretend to guess; unless we went back to Jackson County.

“’No,’ said the old Patriarch, his whole being seeming to be alive with animation. ‘The Lord has told Joseph that when we leave here we will go into the Rocky Mountains; right into the midst of the Lamanites.’

“This information filled our hearts with unspeakable joy, for we knew that the Book of Mormon and this gospel had been brought to light more for the remnants of Jacob upon this continent than for the Gentiles.

“Father Smith again enjoined upon us profound secrecy in this matter and I don’t think it was ever uttered by one of Father Huntington’s family. The history of Nauvoo shows that we located in Nauvoo in 1839 and left it in 1846.
(Oliver B. Huntington, “Prophecy,” Young Woman’s Journal 2, no. 7 [April 1891], pp. 314–15; also in Remembering Joseph, 2003, pp. 138-139.)

Later in Salt Lake City, Oliver B. Huntington related another experience in his journal: “Monday [Sept.] 27th [1897]… I met [this] day, at the Hall of Relicks, Hopkins G. Pendar, an old Nauvoo Mormon, and from him learned that Joseph Smith just before he was killed, made a sketch of the future home of the saints in the Rocky Mountains, and their route or road to that country as he had seen in vision; a map or drawing of it. Levi W. Hancock drew a copy of that map, which copy H. C. Pender [sic] had seen. He said that Levi W. Hancock told him that there was 4 copies of that map taken, one of which Brigham Young kept, one was carried by the Mormon Battalion, by which they knew where to find the church, or Salt Lake Valley.” (“History of the Life of Oliver B. Huntington, Written by Himself 1878–1900,” BYU Special Collections, typescript, p. 50.)

Just five days before he was martyred (on 22 June 1844), the Prophet Joseph Smith learned by revelation that if he and his brother Hyrum were taken to Carthage, they would be murdered. Said he, “I told Stephen Markham that if I and Hyrum were ever taken again we should be massacred, or I was not a prophet of God” (History of the Church, 6:546). That same day, the Prophet received a prompting about what to do to spare their lives: “The way is open,” he told Hyrum. “It is clear to my mind what do…We will cross the river tonight, and go away to the West” (History of the Church, 6:545-546). To the Saints in Nauvoo, Joseph said, “All they want is Hyrum and myself.…They will come here and search for us. Let them search; they will not harm you in person or property, and not even a hair of your head. We will cross the river tonight, and go away to the West” (History of the Church, 6:545-546). Later that same evening, Hyrum spoke to Reynolds Cahoon: “A company of men are seeking to kill my brother Joseph, and the Lord has warned him to flee to the Rocky Mountains to save his life” (History of the Church 6:547).

That night the Prophet, Hyrum, Reynolds Cahoon and Orrin Porter Rockwell rowed across the Mississippi River to an island for safety. While there, letters arrived accusing Joseph of abandoning the Saints who didn’t believe his promise they would be safe. Heartbroken, and knowing the fate that awaited them, Joseph and Hyrum returned to Nauvoo, were then arrested, and taken to Carthage. John Murdock, who watched them row back across the river, later confirmed that Joseph knew by revelation where he could find safety. He said, “The light he had was toward the mountains” (Southern Star 1, 11 March 1899, 117).

Three years later in 1847, and while leading the first company of pioneers to the west, Apostle George A. Smith described a vision President Brigham Young had one night when the Prophet Joseph Smith appeared to him and accrued him in vision to Ensign Peak, which lies on the north end of the Salt Lake Valley:

“After the death of Joseph Smith, when it seemed as if every trouble and calamity had come upon the Saints, Brigham Young . . . sought the Lord to know what they should do, and where they should lead the people for safety, and while they were fasting and praying daily on this subject. President Young had a vision of Joseph Smith, who showed him the mountain that we now call Ensign Peak, immediately north of Salt Lake City, and there . . . an ensign [flag] fell upon that peak, and Joseph said, ‘Build under the point where the colors fall and you will prosper and have peace.’” (Journal of Discourses, 20 June 1869, 13:85-86.)

As the vanguard company neared the Salt Lake Valley, Rocky Mountain fever hit (an illness spread by ticks and brings chills, coughs, severe headaches and pains throughout the body). President Brigham Young was smitten and became ill. A small, advance group, was sent ahead to look over the valley. When they returned to report, President Young said, “This is the right spot. I know it is the spot and we have come here according to the suggestion and direction of Joseph Smith who was martyred. The word of the Lord was to go to that valley and the best place you can find in it is the spot. I prayed that he would lead us directly to the best spot, which he has done, for after searching we can find no better.” (Norton Jacobs Diary, 28 July 1847, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.)

[TheDuke]

So, a couple of thoughts. First, this was 10 years before Joseph's death and he never sent an emissary to the mountains but he did build or try to build in NY, OH, MO, IL, IA? Also, as I have said Mormons never settled the rockies, was he seeing Denver? If Wasatch or Unitas are the rockies, then so are the Cascades and Sierras and others? What of BY and Joseph discussing CA and Vancouver?

Still, why is there no revelation to go there? there are revelations for Colesville, Kirkland, Jackson County, Nauvoo, even in IA across from Nauvoo? None for rockies!

I'm sorry but the more these late 1800's revelations from earlier days come out and the obvious discrepancies emerge, the less I come to believe our early leaders? I no longer find them faith promoting. why were they not screamed from the top of the pulpit in early 1850's? Why did 50 years pass before they were revealed by very old men in their diaries and such?

I love early church leaders, but I don't like the propensity for remaking history any more, the bare truths are enough for me. IMO.

[Shawn Henry]

So, a couple of thoughts. First, this was 10 years before Joseph's death and he never sent an emissary to the mountains but he did build or try to build in NY, OH, MO, IL, IA? Also, as I have said Mormons never settled the rockies, was he seeing Denver? If Wasatch or Unitas are the rockies, then so are the Cascades and Sierras and others? What of BY and Joseph discussing CA and Vancouver?

Still, why is there no revelation to go there? there are revelations for Colesville, Kirkland, Jackson County, Nauvoo, even in IA across from Nauvoo? None for rockies!

I'm sorry but the more these late 1800's revelations from earlier days come out and the obvious discrepancies emerge, the less I come to believe our early leaders? I no longer find them faith promoting. why were they not screamed from the top of the pulpit in early 1850's? Why did 50 years pass before they were revealed by very old men in their diaries and such?

I love early church leaders, but I don't like the propensity for remaking history any more, the bare truths are enough for me. IMO.

IMO, the stakes of Zion merited a revelation, but getting kicked out of the promised land only required getting kicked out. We know they left because of disobedience because they were told that if they were obedient in Nauvoo, they would not be moved out of their place.

[TheDuke]

So, a couple of thoughts. First, this was 10 years before Joseph's death and he never sent an emissary to the mountains but he did build or try to build in NY, OH, MO, IL, IA? Also, as I have said Mormons never settled the rockies, was he seeing Denver? If Wasatch or Unitas are the rockies, then so are the Cascades and Sierras and others? What of BY and Joseph discussing CA and Vancouver?

Still, why is there no revelation to go there? there are revelations for Colesville, Kirkland, Jackson County, Nauvoo, even in IA across from Nauvoo? None for rockies!

I'm sorry but the more these late 1800's revelations from earlier days come out and the obvious discrepancies emerge, the less I come to believe our early leaders? I no longer find them faith promoting. why were they not screamed from the top of the pulpit in early 1850's? Why did 50 years pass before they were revealed by very old men in their diaries and such?

I love early church leaders, but I don't like the propensity for remaking history any more, the bare truths are enough for me. IMO.

IMO, the stakes of Zion merited a revelation, but getting kicked out of the promised land only required getting kicked out. We know they left because of disobedience because they were told that if they were obedient in Nauvoo, they would not be moved out of their place.

ok, but I also don't think they had a chance. I think god knew well before everything what would take place. So, I'm ok with BY ending up in Utah. I'm ok that things actually worked out as they were supposed to. Perhaps their were options for better outcomes, I don't know. But what I believe is that in 1834/5 Joseph had no plan to go to the Rockies. His plans were elsewhere. So if WW and others heard these revelations and didn't bother to say them for 50 years in some journal, I wonder about them. If they would say it occurred in Jackson Co, or Nauvoo, ok, there is evidence as things started collapsing that time Joseph looked for options. but not in OH time frame. All the canonized revelations say other things.

[kirtland r.m.]

I have more on this subject. I have an entire book written by a B.Y.U. Prof. on individual saints who are quoted as having their own confirming personal revelation(mostly Navuoo era if memory serves me correctly) that the saints would be heading to the rocky Mountains. I need to dig it out and put up some quotes. One of the earliest I have found is one I have posted before, and it bears repeating. It was given to a nine year old non member who would one day help drive away Satan and some of his followers from the Logan Temple and among other things become an Apostle. His Name, Marriner Wood Merrill.

As a boy of only nine(as I said, he was a non member, but would become a future Apostle) growing up in New Brunswick, Canada, Marriner Wood Merrill experienced the first of many spiritual events in his life. He beheld a vision of his future as a member of the restored Church. Although he did not understand the things he saw, he later realized that he had been shown the prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, the journey of the Saints to Utah in covered wagons, vehicles that were unknown to him at the time of the vision, and some of his friends with more than one wife. So strong an impression did this last sight have upon him that he asked his mother why plurality of wives was not practiced as in biblical times. She tried to probe into the origin of his question, but because a voice had instructed him to maintain secrecy, he could not tell her of the vision.https://rsc.byu.edu/prophets-apostles-l ... od-merrill

[kirtland r.m.]

So, a couple of thoughts. First, this was 10 years before Joseph's death and he never sent an emissary to the mountains but he did build or try to build in NY, OH, MO, IL, IA? Also, as I have said Mormons never settled the rockies, was he seeing Denver? If Wasatch or Unitas are the rockies, then so are the Cascades and Sierras and others? What of BY and Joseph discussing CA and Vancouver?

Still, why is there no revelation to go there? there are revelations for Colesville, Kirkland, Jackson County, Nauvoo, even in IA across from Nauvoo? None for rockies!

I'm sorry but the more these late 1800's revelations from earlier days come out and the obvious discrepancies emerge, the less I come to believe our early leaders? I no longer find them faith promoting. why were they not screamed from the top of the pulpit in early 1850's? Why did 50 years pass before they were revealed by very old men in their diaries and such?

I love early church leaders, but I don't like the propensity for remaking history any more, the bare truths are enough for me. IMO.

Hey theDuike, just a couple of side notes for you. I have always wanted to tell you since seeing your first posts, that B.Y.U.'s relative finder lists me as a closer relative of John Wayne. Also, most people who have not been to Denver would not know this but Denver barely qualifies as rocky mountain territory. Interestingly people think of it being surrounded by tall mountains high in the Rockies. Actually on Denver's east side is the end of the Midwestern plains of the U.S. Directly west of the city are the beginning of the Rockies. Very beautiful and striking contrast.

[Telavian]

I have more on this subject. I have an entire book written by a B.Y.U. Prof. on individual saints who are quoted as having their own confirming personal revelation(mostly Navuoo era if memory serves me correctly) that the saints would be heading to the rocky Mountains. I need to dig it out and put up some quotes. One of the earliest I have found is one I have posted before, and it bears repeating. It was given to a nine year old non member who would one day help drive away Satan and some of his followers from the Logan Temple and among other things become an Apostle. His Name, Marriner Wood Merrill.

As a boy of only nine(as I said, he was a non member, but would become a future Apostle) growing up in New Brunswick, Canada, Marriner Wood Merrill experienced the first of many spiritual events in his life. He beheld a vision of his future as a member of the restored Church. Although he did not understand the things he saw, he later realized that he had been shown the prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, the journey of the Saints to Utah in covered wagons, vehicles that were unknown to him at the time of the vision, and some of his friends with more than one wife. So strong an impression did this last sight have upon him that he asked his mother why plurality of wives was not practiced as in biblical times. She tried to probe into the origin of his question, but because a voice had instructed him to maintain secrecy, he could not tell her of the vision.https://rsc.byu.edu/prophets-apostles-l ... od-merrill

A serious issue with church history is someone will say something and then others will copy. Then people parrot the copy and you eventually have a lot of "evidence" that is really just fake in nature. Just because a lot of leaders say something doesn't make it true.

[larsenb]

So, a couple of thoughts. First, this was 10 years before Joseph's death and he never sent an emissary to the mountains but he did build or try to build in NY, OH, MO, IL, IA? Also, as I have said Mormons never settled the rockies, was he seeing Denver? If Wasatch or Unitas are the rockies, then so are the Cascades and Sierras and others? What of BY and Joseph discussing CA and Vancouver?

Still, why is there no revelation to go there? there are revelations for Colesville, Kirkland, Jackson County, Nauvoo, even in IA across from Nauvoo? None for rockies!

I'm sorry but the more these late 1800's revelations from earlier days come out and the obvious discrepancies emerge, the less I come to believe our early leaders? I no longer find them faith promoting. why were they not screamed from the top of the pulpit in early 1850's? Why did 50 years pass before they were revealed by very old men in their diaries and such?

I love early church leaders, but I don't like the propensity for remaking history any more, the bare truths are enough for me. IMO.

Hey theDuike, just a couple of side notes for you. I have always wanted to tell you since seeing your first posts, that B.Y.U.'s relative finder lists me as a closer relative of John Wayne. Also, most people who have not been to Denver would not know this but Denver barely qualifies as rocky mountain territory. Interestingly people think of it being surrounded by tall mountains high in the Rockies. Actually on Denver's east side is the end of the Midwestern plains of the U.S. Directly west of the city are the beginning of the Rockies. Very beautiful and striking contrast.

And the Wasatch Range is considered a western boundary of the Rock Mountains and the eastern boundary of the Basin and Range geologic province.

[Ymarsakar]

For those that want the truth and not his story, ask ur god and not mortal or elohim historians.

[TheDuke]

Jonathan Stapley pointed me to a link of the "Seer" an 1852 set up publications by Orson Pratt in DC, appointed by the FP to tell east coasters about the Mormons. He says that 22 years earlier (1830) JS prophesied that Zion would flourish in the hills and mountains, BUT it was not known for 15 more years before enemies (1845) caused them to UNEXPECTEDLY flee to the mountains.

So, I don't see any correlation in 1852 with the OP's story as being accurate at the time. OP was an apostle selected by BY, WW and WR to write about the church. And he clearly says several times that going to the mountain west was unanticipated in the 1830's. This was written 45 years earlier than the OP's story and from a direct source, not a secondary copy.

I think it dis-spells any and all pre-1840's notions of the Rocky's as the home of the LDS and surely Zion.