Hey, who’s Heyl-El?

[Thinker]

Hopefully Hidden-hand is ok.

Yeah, I can see how it does indeed require discernment because often there is a lot of important truth included along with lies. Eg., There’s this notion that they MUST act evil, but I think that’s a lie. True that “there must needs be opposition in all things,” but life itself involves constant challenges! There’s no need to go try to invent challenges! No parents are perfect & plenty are dysfunctional, plus our own weaknesses so there are already plenty of challenges without trying.

They seem to suggest that they know everything and are better at consciously arranging evil obstacles for people. But again, this is deceiving because there is already plenty of evil to keep us each busy fighting the good fight. We don’t need their supposed “expert evil tests” etc. God is the only one who is all knowing.

That said, I don’t discard things completely if I see truth, even if lies are mixed in. One of the most enlightening experiences I remember hearing is from a guy who was possessed by a spirit. I had issues with the possession itself, but some truth amazed me!

The idea of good & evil is not so clear cut. Both are within each of us & none of us are 100% good nor 100% evil.

There was a great disclosure of the "luciferian cult" here on this forum as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWreAwQKyLs

Couple of key points.

1. 16 year old youth member of the cult/KMafia gets 100k+ deposited in his fast food account payments.
2. Women, success, glory, careers, all checked off.
3. Great recruitment tool, but they don't even know Lucifer's real name. Luciferi s some name made up by a roman bishop because one of his rivals was called Lucifer. These Roman bishops loved playing these kind of games with scripture. Kill the witch and heretic.

People get physically afraid when I say that Jeshua is brother to Heyl-El (a type of satan, a job description). Then they get really triggered when I say I am brother to Jeshua and Heyl-El.

These are likely pro Christian or pro religion in some respects. THey love to think themselves moral because they use the term "brother or sister", but the real test comes and they fail hard. They don't actually see other entities as being equal to them. Either some entity is above them, like Jeshua, or they see Heyl-El as being below Jeshua, because humans need a corporate hierarchy to make sense of the pecking order.

The Lucifer cult also says

1. Jeshua utilized the teachings or doctrine from Heylel who they call Lucifer.
2. These would be intelligence and worldly power

3. Jeshua was a pretty bad student then, cause his worldly power was pretty weak. He didn't write down a manifesto like Audrey Hale or Saul Alinsky. People follow Saul Alinsky's rules more than Jeshua's, since his words were second hand at best.

4. The people who try to lecture me about Lucifer's teachings when they don't even know the real name, which is Heyl-El, are always suspicious to me. They aren't given the fullness of the information.

How much do I know? Well that is not for me to write of at this time. God has a specific schedule for this apocalypse and it is not useful to fight Divine Fate. People will get it when they get it. Assuming they survive.

I've been online since 2006 talking gloom and doom prophecies/predictions (US CW1 being inevitable if people refuse to repent/change) and all kinds of conspiracy based analysis. Google finally unshadow banned my name from search results after x decades. I find that very amusing, March 2023. My background is a bit of an outlier, because I used original analysis and dot connection to discover certain things. I did not encounter 9/11 conspiracies or Alex Jones conspiracies, nor did I utilize them as part of my research/belief structure. This gave me a lot of leeway to do things on my own. I only encountered the conspiracy world in 2018, long after I had awakened from the paranoia state.

What I thought was a curseo r lost opportunity turnedo ut to be a divine blessing. Because that levelo f solo research also made me basically immune to coercion/public psy ops like 2020 lockdowns, masks, and mrna stuff.

1. You can't have a job without this
2. You can't fly without this

Ymar: So what, I've been through all that, why do you think I will bend now of all times, Satan souls? Seriously, stop underestimating me. I don't need the kingdoms of Satan. I'm going to demolition the kingdoms of Satan.

I wanted to start this discussion here but will respond more another time.

[Ymarsakar]

It is the hebrew name for isaiah s falling star and morning star. Translated by rome as lucifer because the trqnslator did not like a rival boshop called lucifer.

This was some very obscure hebrew translation that i saw heiser do.

It can be interpreted as god s howling aka confusion which is my interpretation. The el suffix is common for archangels. Gabri el. Micha el. El may refer to elohim or another name for the holy one of israel. There are a lot of terms used which i would need to look up the list. Cannot remember em now.

Thus it is the true name of the fallen archangel. Or at least the hebrew ot name. Not many mentions. Fallen watchers are mentioned in 1st enoch. A whole list of em.

And a couple of other independent methods i used verified it as their preferred name as well. I find it kind of ironic that the true name for the devil feared by humanity for thousands have years does not even have their true name sound. This reality is one big maze and optical illusion.

We have cultists worshipping lucifer and they dont even use the name. We have people worshipping god but not using the yhvh tetra. One big illusion here.

When i started reading otestament, it took forever because every 3rd line the holy spirit said go look up the original hebrew this is incorrect.

[Lynn]

In actuality, it is the story of the fall of Adam. Let me check my notes ... Let's see, in my book TEACHING aka 'The Teaching of the Lost Sacred Word or the 7th Power* (*even the Logos or Christ-consciousness that lies dormant and unfulfilled within you.)', the index notes the term "Helel-ben-Shahar" is on p.125. Hmm, I also recall that I had this in one of mt three booklets as well.

In TEACHING, it is section #27 in Chapter 9 (Special Notes & Definitions) on pp.124-125 which does not give the whole excerpt, but discusses it. I even had a bookmarker inserted here on these 2 pages. It has reference #34 on both pages. I would have to look at my three booklets to see which one it was in, and have to type it up completely. Oh, I see it identifies which of me 3 previous booklets it was in originally one chapter- M&Ms aka "Misnomers and Misinterpretations".


#27 excerpt (all of it/ not edited):
++++++++++++++++++
p.124
...
27) This one concerns Jesus, and will be
highly controversial to almost all people. In Rev.
22:16, Jesus (or the excerpt) says he is "the root and offspring of
David, and the bright and morning star". Recently,
in a booklet of mine, titled "Misnomers and
Misinterpretations", I had one brief chapter on the
subject of Lucifer- the name. I believe that somewhere
down the line, things were misinterpreted
and resulted in Satan being linked with Lucifer.
To me, after my research, I have found that this
may not be as supposed or believed, even though
we equate Lucifer to Satan from Isaiah 14:12-14
and Ezekiel 28:l3-l5. If you have an open mind
and understand the power of rumors that can
distort or twist anything imaginable; read on. Some
compare these two references of a "hero of an
earlier story in which the morning star (Venus)
tried to steal the role (or power) of the sun, but
was defeated, this myth itself stemming from the
observation that the morning star (Venus) is the
last star proudly to defy the sunrise but as the
sun's rays strengthen, his light fades" {Ref.34}. In other
words, a cosmogonic idea such as those found in
the Apocryphal books of Enoch and in other myths
-----------------------------------------------
Chap.9/p.125

of the world. The same source says that here is a
suggestion that these 2 stories in the OT are
"another version of the fall of Adam and his
expulsion from Eden" {Ref.34} because of his transgression.
It would seem that Adam is "the divine spirit who
tried to rival God" {Ref.34} because he was tempted to eat
of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of
Good & Evil. If you will note in Genesis (KJV 3:5/
IV of RLDS-CoC 3:10), that they (Adam & Eve) were tempted that
if they would eat of that fruit, they would
become like God and be gods. Adam is also known as
Michael in various religions. Michael was also
noted as meaning: "who is like God" or "like unto
God". And if you view IV Genesis 3:1-4 with an
open mind; it can be interpreted as Jesus being
sent to redeem mankind by the will and purposes
of God thru time, not instantly, and that the
glory be given to God. This would allow Jesus to
work thru a process of incarnations, which would
progress mankind slowly. And there is a unique
analogy from the Jewish Kabbalists. This concerns
the word- Adam. Adam is said to contain 3 names of
incarnations. A-Adam/ Da-David/ M-Messiah. I now
conclude with these ending notes on Lucifer. Lucifer
is derived from the Hebrew term- "helel-ben-shahar",
which means "day-star, son of the dawn"{Ref.34}, or as
we have it today- "light-bearer/ son of the morning/
morning star". I have to say that these 2 references
to Lucifer in the OT, are not linked to
Satan, but Adam or the fall or allowment of Michael
to bring the battle to earth according to
God's strange purposes. This Lucifer association,
with Satan ["satana"], is a misnomer and a misinterpretation.
But so-called wise men have not searched deeply
enough. For soon, "the wisdom of the wise shall
perish". "For the Lord has chosen the foolish
things to confound the wise".
...
++++++++++++++++++

Reference 34 is listed on p.212 of References in TEACHING:
pp.1662-1663 of Volume 12- Cavendish (24 volume set)- 1970.

In the Bibliography of TEACHING this source is listed on p.224:
Cavendish, Richard -editor-in-chief (1970). 'Man, Myth & Magic'- 24 volume set. NY, NY: Marshall Cavendish.

Also noted that a newer version was published in 1983, in which the 24 volumes were put into 12 volumes, so I assume it would be in Volume 6 (& perhaps the same page numbers).

I am also thinking I may have run into it or something similar in either 'The Encyclopedia of Religion' edited by Mircea Eliade (16 volume set- 1987) or 'Encyclopedia of Religion & Ethics' edited by James Hastings (13 volume set- 1961). You have to remember or be advised that this was research done back in 1987 thru 1989 of which I spent a good portion of a year in the Texas A&M University Library, sometimes 12+ hours a day. That was some 34 to 36 years ago and many notes & such are somewhere here in my various personal library sections.

If you want, I can look around to find a copy of M&Ms to get the full quote or excerpt. Just let me know.

Hmm, let's see if George Lamsa who translated the Peshitta OT & NT from Aramaic (the language Jesus spoke) referred to as the LT edition (Lamsa Translation) 1957 in his book- 'Old Testament Light' 1964/1st Holman Edition HB 1978.

Isaiah 14:12-14
Here is what Lamsa states on p.646 & it seems now there is a third angle added to the previous two I just shared:
+++++++++++++
The Aramaic word "ailel" (to howl, cry out) has been confused with the Hebrew word "helel" (brightness). The term "Lucifer" means morning star, but it does not appear in the Eastern text.

The Eastern text reads "ailel" (howl, Mourn). The reference here is to the king of Babylon whose impending fall is foretold by the prophet. The king of Babylon, like the kings of Assyria and Egypt whose doom was predicted by the prophets, is told to howl and mourn over his fall.

The king of Babylon had lifted himself to heaven but would come down into Sheol. This passage has nothing to do with the falling of an angel , a star, or Lucifer. It refers to the fall of Babylon and its tyrant ruler who had lifted up himself and compelled the nations to worship him as a god. The whole chapter is about the fall of of the king of Babylon [verse 4].

All the kings who had oppressed the Israelites unjustly were overthrown.
+++++++++++++

Ezekiel 28:l3-l5

I will type this one up later, but Lamsa says on p.824 that verse 13 relates to Tyre (Zur) which was noted for its wealth, and was like a little Babylon & doomed just like Babylon in Isaiah, so eventually the king of Zur (Tyre) fell, as well as his kingdom.


A side note ...
It is brought out by Moira Timms in her extremely well researched book- 'Beyond Prophecies and Predictions: Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes' 1980/1994 Revised The 1994 Revised edition was a Pkt.PB (Mass Market Ed.) by Ballantine (4 1/4" x 7"). The 1996 was a reprint by Ballantine in PB or Trade Edition (5 5/8" x 8 1/2"). In chapter 13 "Babylonian Prophecy" (in both editions, same pages- pp.204-228) Timms reveals that Saddam Hussein "saw himself as the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar, the ancient king of Babylon" on page 210. But interestingly, Timms brings out the 4th kingdom of what Daniel reveals (on p.212). The four kingdoms were: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. "The 4th kingdom, the present era, passed from military Rome to Papal Rome, and that, symbolically, it continues today." Paraphrasing from here, Timms brings up that the dream also envisioned that this image (the 4 kingdoms) were destroyed by "a stone" unmade by human hands. "Daniel said that this stone that brought down the last world kingdom, crushing history, would absorb all the kingdoms of the Earth into itself and become the 'Stone Kingdom' that would last forever and never be destroyed." Timms notes that it seems Saddam was trying to initiate that prophecy with a 1990 claim of Iraq having a new missile named "The Stone".

HOWEVER, I see it is reference to the Comet (the Blue Star Kachina), which in its second encounter with Earth, is destined to impact the Earth. Its final decent goes over France, then Italy, especially Rome, as it will burn the city of the 7 Hills which will end the Papacy in Rome completely (but the very day the comet is spotted back in the spring, the Pope will be brutally murdered in northern Italy, of which is the last Pope in St. Malachy's list of Popes). It will impact (smash) into the Aegean Sea which will initiate the greater Earth Changes for the following 10 years.


And as far as Satan is concerned, I can say the key in understanding is the term of which it is derived from- "satana". Rocco Errico (the understudy of Lamsa) shares about that in 'Let There Be Light: The Seven Keys'.

As to if an angel fell, or not, in 'Revelations of the Metatron" it seems Ba-El or Bael, eventually was called Baal (or renamed). That is interesting, as Dolores Cannon found that there were 12 Commandments of the Essenes, not 10. One refers not to follow the path of Baal. This is in either 'Jesus & the Essenes' or "They Walked With Jesus'. Just looked & it seems it is in 'Jesus & the Essenes' my 2nd copy- OMP PB edition (1992/2009 ... 24th Print 2020) with Addendum, Bibliography, and Index, to which I don't recall in the first edition by Gateway Books in the UK (which is running around here somewhere). The "Commandments of Moses" is noted to be on page 87 of the 2009 revised later addition. Actually it encompasses pp.87-91. The other two of the 12 Commandments are:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thou shalt do only unto others as they would do unto you.

Thou shall not follow the ways of the path of Baal.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The one that mirrors the "golden rule" was explained like this:
+++++++++
It has to do with having memory of if you treat others as you would wish to be treated. For this is what you shall carry forward with you. (Dolores notes: Was he relating it to karma?)
+++++++++

[Lynn]

So, in essence, you have three angles of interpretation of the excerpt in Isaiah & Ezekiel.
They are:

The fall of Adam (Adam fell that men might have joy).

Venus succumbs to the Sun (cosmological).

And these two references are in error due to translation & were actually directed at the kings of Babylon & to Zur (Tyre).

And all 3 are correct. But all the stuff about Lucifer is man's twisted invention. For it was written that finally, all things would be revealed. In so, that mankind would either awaken or be lost in the maze.

[Ymarsakar]

I do not think satan is a person but a title. It can refer to a number of entities based on thrir job here.

Heiser looked at the translation of hey le el. When the vowel points were added to the text it changed the reading. And violated the command not to change the words of god.

At the time my testimony was based on bom and joseph smith not the bible.

There is more than 1 morning star. In the morning at jerusalem there are constellations of stars at times. Mercury can also be a morning star.

When the text refers to jeshua as a morning star and also heyl el, to me it is of no import. It is like a poet comparing the lips of their beloved to honey.

Mercury is in astrological terms the messenger of the gods and applies to commerce silver and intelligence. While venus occupies the authority of love and luxury.

I wonder if they refer to hey la el as mercury and jeshua as venus because daniel s star watchers knew of the connections

Stars as signs. Signs of events or a language from the heavens. The 3 magi saw something in the sky and knew a ruler had been born and where even.

[Lynn]

The Star of Bethlehem is revealed or explained in Dolores Cannon's 'Jesus & the Essenes'. In the OMP PB revised edition, the Index lists it as on pages 200,206-207. Since I can't find my Gateway Books PB edition, I am not sure if it is the same pages.

In the OMP ed. it explains it as a conjunction, which in chapter 18 titled "The Star of Bethlehem" an Essene describes that the prophecy is finally being revealed.
The prophecy states on p.201-
+++++++++++++
Suddi's father had told him there would be a sign in the heavens when the Messiah was coming. "It is said that from four corners that stars will rise together and when they meet, it will be the time of his birth."
+++++++++++++

On p.202 the description of it as it occurred-
+++++++++++++
Suddi shares, "It is like the heavens themselves have opened up and all of the light is just shining down upon us. It is like the sun of day! It is so bright! They are .. they come together. They have not met so that it is larger than it will be."
...
"And it is said, that when it becomes as one, in that moment he will be born."
+++++++++++++

And on p.204, further description by Suddi-
+++++++++++++
"There is a beam .. it is like a tail. It comes down with all the light. It is like focus that drops straight from the star. And it is said that in this light he shall be born [or bore]."
...
"It is like most of the light is being focused. In that it is no longer scattered about, but in a precise point. It is about the brightness of a very large , full moon."
+++++++++++++

I might add the next chapter (#19) is titled "The Magi & the Baby".

As to the word Satan, when I have time, I will soon share what Rocco Errico has researched & writes in one of his books.

[Ymarsakar]

The Star of Bethlehem is revealed or explained in Dolores Cannon's 'Jesus & the Essenes'. In the OMP PB revised edition, the Index lists it as on pages 200,206-207. Since I can't find my Gateway Books PB edition, I am not sure if it is the same pages.

In the OMP ed. it explains it as a conjunction, which in chapter 18 titled "The Star of Bethlehem" an Essene describes that the prophecy is finally being revealed.
The prophecy states on p.201-
+++++++++++++
Suddi's father had told him there would be a sign in the heavens when the Messiah was coming. "It is said that from four corners that stars will rise together and when they meet, it will be the time of his birth."
+++++++++++++

On p.202 the description of it as it occurred-
+++++++++++++
Suddi shares, "It is like the heavens themselves have opened up and all of the light is just shining down upon us. It is like the sun of day! It is so bright! They are .. they come together. They have not met so that it is larger than it will be."
...
"And it is said, that when it becomes as one, in that moment he will be born."
+++++++++++++

And on p.204, further description by Suddi-
+++++++++++++
"There is a beam .. it is like a tail. It comes down with all the light. It is like focus that drops straight from the star. And it is said that in this light he shall be born [or bore]."
...
"It is like most of the light is being focused. In that it is no longer scattered about, but in a precise point. It is about the brightness of a very large , full moon."
+++++++++++++

I might add the next chapter (#19) is titled "The Magi & the Baby".

As to the word Satan, when I have time, I will soon share what Rocco Errico has researched & writes in one of his books.

I am somehwat familiar with cannon s work and thr astronomical reverse enegineering of thr star of bethlehem conjunction.

I suspect the occultization of astrology was to deny to the latter days the knowledge that daniel and persians had of the stars. Heck even lukifer cults use the morning star line to recruit for their cult mafia

[Thinker]

…they don't even know Lucifer's real name. Luciferi s some name made up by a roman bishop because one of his rivals was called Lucifer. These Roman bishops loved playing these kind of games with scripture. Kill the witch and heretic.

People get physically afraid when I say that Jeshua is brother to Heyl-El (a type of satan, a job description). Then they get really triggered when I say I am brother to Jeshua and Heyl-El.

These are likely pro Christian or pro religion in some respects. THey love to think themselves moral because they use the term "brother or sister", but the real test comes and they fail hard. They don't actually see other entities as being equal to them. Either some entity is above them, like Jeshua, or they see Heyl-El as being below Jeshua, because humans need a corporate hierarchy to make sense of the pecking order…

There’s a lot I wanted to think more about because you raise a lot of complex ideas that I see truth in, but as you implied, they can easily be misunderstood & then building on that misunderstanding. It is the notion of YinYang, the opposites yet mixing of good & evil… part of each promotes the other…



Although new to me, it doesn’t surprise me that Catholicism made up the term Lucifer to mean Satan, based on hating someone with that name. Back then & some in our lds church now focus so much on traditions even when they’re corrupt. Leaders set it up in corrupt ways & then shame & punish anyone who dares openly question it. On top of that confusion, they establish this deceiving pride that is too enticing for many to resist - this lie that because they go along with corrupt tradition, they are somehow better than those who don’t.

Take away all dogma & what does one have? Death will answer that, if it’s not answered before.

[Thinker]

Heyl-El
“Hey hey hey is a way of getting someone's attention or announcing oneself, often used playfully and popularly known as the catchphrase of the cartoon character Fat Albert. It can also be used more sternly to call out bad behavior.”

“Urban Dictionary: Heyl
Usually a very odd person. Doesn't like music, talks in mono-tone, and shows no emotions. However deemed somewhat psychotic, and talks a lot about torture. Also reffered to at times as a "Heyl-bot" “

“Strong's Hebrew: 1966. הֵילֵל (helel) -- a shining one”…

“ HEYLEL is a Male baby name and origin is Hebrew. HEYLEL, Male means: (הֵילֵל) Hebrew name HEYLEL means "light-bringer." In the bible, this is a name for the morning star (Lucifer) and the honorific title of a Babylonian king. Lucifer is the Latin translation of this name. In Hebrew, the name HEYLEL is most often used as the name of a Male.

“ HEYL A gene on chromosome 1p34.3 that encodes a DNA-binding basic helix-loop-helix (bHLH) transcription factor. HEYL is a downstream effector of Notch signalling and may be required for cardiovascular development by downregulating the cardiac transcriptional activators GATA4 and GATA6.”

El

[Ymarsakar]

Heyl-El
“Hey hey hey is a way of getting someone's attention or announcing oneself, often used playfully and popularly known as the catchphrase of the cartoon character Fat Albert. It can also be used more sternly to call out bad behavior.”

“Urban Dictionary: Heyl
Usually a very odd person. Doesn't like music, talks in mono-tone, and shows no emotions. However deemed somewhat psychotic, and talks a lot about torture. Also reffered to at times as a "Heyl-bot" “

“Strong's Hebrew: 1966. הֵילֵל (helel) -- a shining one”…

“ HEYLEL is a Male baby name and origin is Hebrew. HEYLEL, Male means: (הֵילֵל) Hebrew name HEYLEL means "light-bringer." In the bible, this is a name for the morning star (Lucifer) and the honorific title of a Babylonian king. Lucifer is the Latin translation of this name. In Hebrew, the name HEYLEL is most often used as the name of a Male.

“ HEYL A gene on chromosome 1p34.3 that encodes a DNA-binding basic helix-loop-helix (bHLH) transcription factor. HEYL is a downstream effector of Notch signalling and may be required for cardiovascular development by downregulating the cardiac transcriptional activators GATA4 and GATA6.”

El

A few times Strong's concordance gives an erroneous primary definition when looking at the Hebrew-King James translation text (they read line by line together, so I could reference it. I didn't do this for even 25% of the bible, but enough that I got a grasp of it). It was by looking at the ancient root word and synonyms that the HS verified that as being the stronger/closer meaning of the text.

There's a couple of reasons for this. If you notice Hebrew in the Strong Concordance has these umlouts or dots under and above the symbols. What are those? Those are vowel points. Meaning original ancient hebrew, before they changed the Torah, didn't have these. And so "adding these points" is actually against the "not jot or dot changed or added or removed" command.

This is why people wrote on metal and stone, because it is visually able to see when changes were made to the text from different tools and different striking styles. The corrosion may also be different over time. And not only that, but they held these tablets and records in their family line, always handing them down 1 to 1, so nobody corruptible may even touch it.

Paper? Papyrus? Anybody can counter feit that in less than 1 generation let alone 10 or 100.

So these vowel points actually end up changing the way the word is prounounced. Let us use english. Take the use of the word nigg** and the country Niger, then change up the spelling. Even in our own modern language, we have things have silent letters like Delacroix although that's probably French.

Now instead of God saying "let us go to Niger and save them" you get something else entirely.

That's what happened to Heyl-El. Also the dag internet search engines don't even work and I cannot find the sources that covered this back when I was researching.

One strong point for KingJames bible and Strong's concordance Hebrew is that it makes the OT very easy to read in parallel, as it is a word by word translation. Although after understanding how the original source texts were edited and changed, I now know why the Kjames version contains so many incorrect word usages. They were going off the Masoretic text. That was the oldest/best record we had of the Torah, the 5 books of the Old Testament.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_1966.htm

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1966.htm

Another problem is that it is only used once. How are we supposed to get the context for that other than by inspiration and re searching the archives? It is like figuring out what people meant when they keep talking about super bowls and lemons not working. A lemon is a fruit but it is also a word used for a car. A super bowl can be a big bowl or it can be a game people play in a big stadium shaped like a bowl. If one only had one instance of this used in a context, there is no easy way to figure out using our intellect what the author meant.

Mandy used a lemon to get to the super bowl.

Mandy bought a lemon to drink with a big acai super bowl.

? ?

When Heiser and others removed the "vowel points" from this Hebrew, then we had access to other roots that made slightly more sense. The Howling One, aka the Confusion at Babel, the Veil of Maya.

israel IS-Ra-El yes it is a phonetic connection, ironically.

[Thinker]

…When i started reading otestament, it took forever because every 3rd line the holy spirit said go look up the original hebrew this is incorrect.

I know what you mean.
Upon realizing the lds church is a partly good but partly harmful cult, I began studying a lot - including how the biblical books were chosen as canon & the voting process etc. So, not only are original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic sometimes translated incorrectly, the original authors were not perfect gods themselves!

Sometimes I miss feeling safe under the childish illusion that I can trust whatever I read in the scriptures, etc. But when I consider how appropriately up to 80% of mental illnesses may be from dysfunctional interpretations of religious doctrine, I sigh with gratitude for that illusional bubble being popped.

[Niemand]

Lucifer means "light bearer" or "carrier". It is appropriate in that the Bible states that he can appear as an "angel of light". Within the context of occultism, we see the concept of "light" used all the time. This is a clear counterfeit of Jesus as the "light of the world".

The pagan Romans called Venus "Lucifer", and the Septuagint calls it "morning star" ìn its Greek translation of Isaiah.

The reference to Venus has several possible implications:
* Venus is the brightest natural object in the sky after the Sun and Moon.
* Venus fades out in the light of day (unlike the Moon sometimes) and can sink to the horizon (hence the "son of the morning" reference), which is symbolic of falling from Heaven.
* The movement of Venus can trace a pentagram shape out in the sky. The fruit in Eden was probably not an apple, but is traditionally associated with it, something which has been aided by the appearance of a pentagram inside the apple core. Satan himself is connected with the inverted pentagram as a goat's head can appear in it.

Apple-Pentagram.jpg (36.48 KiB) Viewed 643 times

* Apart from the occult association, the pentagram is associated with Communism (there is a major Communist newspaper called the Morning Star), the globalist language Esperanto and the US flag.
* Venus is said to be the hottest planet in our solar system, so a hell world. It is regularly blotted out by the sun.
* Morning Star could be seen as a reference to Satan's early appearance in the world.

Ancients often considered the Morning Star (Hesperus) and Evening Star (Phosphorus) to be two separate entities. They're both Venus. It is also known as "Noctifer", the "bringer or bearer of night."

I do not think satan is a person but a title. It can refer to a number of entities based on thrir job here.

Both are correct. I think there is such a being. But you are right to point out it is a title. It means adversary or enemy, or accuser.

In the Koran, the Arabic equivalent is used a number of times in the plural, much as we would speak about "devils" rather than just "the Devil".

In Arabic, Persian, and I think Hebrew the word "Satan" and its relatives are used to refer to people and even certain nations.

[Thinker]

In actuality, it is the story of the fall of Adam…

…somewhere down the line, things were misinterpreted and resulted in Satan being linked with Lucifer.

… Adam is "the divine spirit who
tried to rival God" {Ref.34} because he was tempted to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil. If you will note in Genesis (KJV 3:5/
IV of RLDS-CoC 3:10), that they (Adam & Eve) were tempted that
if they would eat of that fruit, they would
become like God and be gods. Adam is also known asMichael in various religions. Michael was also noted as meaning: "who is like God" or "like unto
God"….

Adam is said to contain 3 names of
incarnations. A-Adam/ Da-David/ M-Messiah...

Lucifer is derived from the Hebrew term- "helel-ben-shahar", which means "day-star, son of the dawn"{Ref.34}, or as
we have it today- "light-bearer/ son of the morning/morning star". I have to say that these 2 references to Lucifer in the OT, are not linked to Satan, but Adam or the fall or allowment of Michael to bring the battle to earth according to God's strange purposes. This Lucifer association, with Satan ["satana"], is a misnomer and a misinterpretation.
But so-called wise men have not searched deeply enough. For soon, "the wisdom of the wise shall perish". "For the Lord has chosen the foolish things to confound the wise"....

Interesting because I believe this is hidden truth right under our noses!
Of course, it could so easily be misunderstood so I’m glad this is in the heretic section where maybe people will be a bit more careful in thinking things through before blindly rejecting or accepting.

Previously I read how Christ was said to be the snake in the garden of eden. The notion of good & evil is not how most Sunday school curricula would teach. It’s complex because evil/opposition is NEEDED for good & vice versa.

Adam represents us. It’s ALL meant to be “likened to us” personally. So, when Adam has another name - Messiah - maybe that suggests truth Christ taught - that the kingdom of God is within us each. As I was telling someone recently, the ultimate anti-Christ are those who twisted Christ’s messages so that billions of people now have believed the opposite of what was originally intended. And to pretend that the experience of God is NOT within us each already & cannot be had without an external church etc is to prevent people from the very soul healing (shedding light on dark/ignorance) we so much crave & need!

Meat, definitely not milk, though. If Christ was the snake, what does that mean? Not being lukewarm? Note in Genesis 3:4:

• “And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

Some have suggested before the serpent was cursed to be a belly-going snake, it was a mystical dragon (again pointing to symbolism - NOT literalism. Duh!). What if Christ/Lucifer/Serpent are representative of our carnal aspects and God is saying, “Look, I set this up for you to CHOOSE & you did choose as I knew you would & now part of the plan is for you - at least the mortal part of you - to struggle. Like Adam, the price you pay for knowledge of good & evil is you will leave the ignorant-bliss illusion of the garden of Eden & have to deal with things like weeds. I know it will sometimes be difficult but this will develop your faith in me & in all GOoD.”

[Ymarsakar]

…When i started reading otestament, it took forever because every 3rd line the holy spirit said go look up the original hebrew this is incorrect.

I know what you mean.
Upon realizing the lds church is a partly good but partly harmful cult, I began studying a lot - including how the biblical books were chosen as canon & the voting process etc. So, not only are original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic sometimes translated incorrectly, the original authors were not perfect gods themselves!

Sometimes I miss feeling safe under the childish illusion that I can trust whatever I read in the scriptures, etc. But when I consider how appropriately up to 80% of mental illnesses may be from dysfunctional interpretations of religious doctrine, I sigh with gratitude for that illusional bubble being popped.

First trust the science goes bye. Then scientism. Then trust fauci. Then trust ukraine. Then trust nato. Then trust banks. And later on even trust in scriptures go boom.

The god apocalypse. It is indeed great.

Trust in the apocalypse heh

Sooner or later ya got to leave primary

[Ymarsakar]

I do not think christ was a snake.

Kingdom of god within can be interpreted as the deactivated divine dna. Religions were meant as training wheels. They got hijacked to be pyramif schemes instead. Those that resisted were destroyed.

There are keys but the chest containing the treasure is inside ur dna. Christ s blood is the dna given unto u.

Those that choose evil will be given evil. Those that vhoose victimhood will become victims for a long time. Manifestatiom and karma works.

[Niemand]

I do not think christ was a snake.

Depends on your interpretation of John 3:14

[Ymarsakar]

Look upon fauci and pharmacology as savior

[Lynn]

I will have to be brief, as my time is short. Time for me to take another round to catch "The Giant" (a YellowCat that seems to be well over 100 pounds. My last tango with him was 5 years ago on Cinco de Mayo 2018. We set two trotlines out this past weekend. One is set in The Giant's normal path. But this time, it has size 96 main line (previously size 36) & size 96 & 70+ leader lines (instead of size 36 which he broke & took the hook , which I think was a Mustad 9/0 short shank SS triple strength hook), but he did not break my 5/0 SS swivels. This time I went to 6/0 SS swivels. I head back to the lake Friday after lunch since this is a YellowCat weekend (13th & 14th), as well as also being my PYC (Personal YellowCat Days) according to their "roam-feed circuit switch". Everything in this universe has patterns, you just need to look deep enough to find it.

OK, subject at hand. I do not feel the symbolic snake is representative of Christ. But, here is what it is. The snake that runs on its belly, is the carnal self which seeks for its own self. the "raised" serpent is that which has overcome & risen to the spiritual self. The physical journey is taking us thru the lower stages to overcome & arise & awaken, to that which we once were & yet are.

[Ymarsakar]

That is a good and balanced pov, lynn.

[Thinker]

…Sooner or later ya got to leave primary

True & well summarized.
Still, there are childish elements that are good - humility, enthusiasm etc.

[Thinker]

I do not think christ was a snake.

… Religions were meant as training wheels.

I agree that religions are like training wheels - help us until we can balance on our own.

Re: Adam/Eve story - It’s all symbolism…
Before the symbolic creature was NOT on his belly otherwise God wouldn’t have said, “upon thy belly shalt thou go.” So that’s why some think it was a dragon - which makes it unquestionably symbolic.
Ie: “most sacred animal”



I don’t have major stakes either way, but if Christ did represent the dragon/snake then maybe it was the yinyang of Christ.

• “Christ first had to become his Antichrist, his under worldly brother… Christ did not remain in Hell, but rose to the heights in the beyond. ~Carl Jung

Christ - the mediator or for some, lower god they can resonate with easier. So they worship him even though as he implied himself, he is not God but as a sign trying to point to God.

Christ may represent the ideal us… who is willing to put off the natural man & become new. Snakes shed skin to survive representing change or die (spiritually/physically). The 1 constant is change.

[Ymarsakar]

God condescends to humanity, children of mankind.

The root word being descends.

If humanity can lift itself up as gods that would solve the problem. I see little signs of that. People still fighting each other over airplane window seats anf toilet paper.

[Ymarsakar]

Another thingarcud aubrey brought up is that lhcifer is the idea that someelse will bring to humanity light. This runs counter to apotheosis where mankind becomes the light of god.

It is need and victimhood mentality.

Also of this was the name of satan or the devil, why would hebrews call their children by this name....

Think people. Think. Dont do a 2p2p covid lockdown again

[Thinker]

God condescends to humanity, children of mankind.

The root word being descends.

If humanity can lift itself up as gods that would solve the problem. I see little signs of that. People still fighting each other over airplane window seats anf toilet paper.

Interesting semantics - especially if you consider the word broken up… con (with) descend (go down)… God coming down with us. The kingdom of God within.

Lifting ourselves up as gods is easier said than done, otherwise it would be more common.

“The path to paradise begins in hell.” - Dante

“There are no crown-wearers in heaven who were not cross-bearers here below.”- Charles Spurgeon

[Cruiserdude]

“There are no crown-wearers in heaven who were not cross-bearers here below.”- Charles Spurgeon

That's a good one