Kicked out of the club

[Fred]

Since there are only two churches, Christ and satan, which church do you believe the LDS leadership are?

And if the members follow the leaders, which church do they belong to?

What do you call people that worship satan?

As we've discussed before, I believe there is significance in doing so intentionally vs unintentionally.

As far as the current leadership? The are sucking the teet of the whore, the church of the devil.

Well, we all have been commanded to search the scriptures. Therein lies the truth. The truth that calls the Q15 out for the Drunkards of Ephraim that they are. So when the members disregard God's word to search the scriptures, and willfully decide to follow a man or group of men instead, even though specifically commanded by God not to, you think this is unintentional?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Since there are only two churches, Christ and satan, which church do you believe the LDS leadership are?

And if the members follow the leaders, which church do they belong to?

What do you call people that worship satan?

As we've discussed before, I believe there is significance in doing so intentionally vs unintentionally.

As far as the current leadership? The are sucking the teet of the whore, the church of the devil.

Well, we all have been commanded to search the scriptures. Therein lies the truth. The truth that calls the Q15 out for the Drunkards of Ephraim that they are. So when the members disregard God's word to search the scriptures, and willfully decide to follow a man or group of men instead, even though specifically commanded by God not to, you think this is unintentional?

I call it ignorance. But that ignorance varies. I think there are members from the least to the greatest that are not ignorant of what is happening. I do have friends who are very aware of what is going on, yet have felt prompted to attend church and be silent. According to your earlier definition, these people would be satan worshippers. That's why I don't think it's as black/white as we often want to make it.

[Fred]

As we've discussed before, I believe there is significance in doing so intentionally vs unintentionally.

As far as the current leadership? The are sucking the teet of the whore, the church of the devil.

Well, we all have been commanded to search the scriptures. Therein lies the truth. The truth that calls the Q15 out for the Drunkards of Ephraim that they are. So when the members disregard God's word to search the scriptures, and willfully decide to follow a man or group of men instead, even though specifically commanded by God not to, you think this is unintentional?

I call it ignorance. But that ignorance varies. I think there are members from the least to the greatest that are not ignorant of what is happening. I do have friends who are very aware of what is going on, yet have felt prompted to attend church and be silent. According to your earlier definition, these people would be satan worshippers. That's why I don't think it's as black/white as we often want to make it.

I don't have a problem with people that are aware, but continue to attend church anyway. I call that following Christ in spite of the Brethren. I certainly would not call them satanists. I was referring to the people that totally disregard God's word, including the scriptures, and continue to attend church to follow the Brethren. Because, every time a Q15, Bishop, Stake President, or whatever, makes a statement that differs from scripture and a member does not say "Liar, Liar, pants on fire!" then the member has made a willful decision to knowingly disregard God and follow RMN.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't have a problem with people that are aware, but continue to attend church anyway. I call that following Christ in spite of the Brethren. I certainly would not call them satanists. I was referring to the people that totally disregard God's word, including the scriptures, and continue to attend church to follow the Brethren. Because, every time a Q15, Bishop, Stake President, or whatever, makes a statement that differs from scripture and a member does not say "Liar, Liar, pants on fire!" then the member has made a willful decision to knowingly disregard God and follow RMN.

Degrees within degrees.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Hey, he posted a new video about Common Consent in the church:

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can see fragments of my belief system in this guy… but only where I was around the beginning of the plandemic. If he took this same approach w/ all of the church theologies, I think he’d find some gaping holes.

[investigator]

When I listened to the part of the video where the church leaders brought him in and told him he could not say anything in church, I was reminded of how the Jews attempted to control the Apostles. They brought them in and threatened them and commanded them to speak no more. The apostles responded, should we hearken to you or to God.

Acts 4:17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name. 18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

[Thinker]

Maybe it’s more about trust & patterns - like baseball - 3 strikes and out. If someone goofs once - maybe it was unintentional & they may still be trustworthy. But if they have a pattern of repeatedly “goofing” & not taking responsibility - then they ought not to be trusted.

And “no matter how thin you slice it, there are always 2 sides.” We are told to listen to profits & follow them - then the other side is to listen to distinguish false profits & NOT follow them. To make it more complicated, the falsity and truth are mixed - nobody’s 100% good nor 100% evil. We must judge - to CHOOSE right from wrong, good from evil - & sometimes it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack.

How many strikes are we up to now?

Well… maybe that’s the problem - nobody going on strike! My neighbor joked about going on strike when the ward boundaries were changed. Imagine if we actually picketed church on Sundays!

[Reluctant Watchman]

My neighbor joked about going on strike when the ward boundaries were changed.

My brother's stake was just reorganized. (They lost a ward) The guy/friend sitting next to him was really pissed off, like fuming mad. All of these friends he's made over the years and now he doesn't get to see them.

I say let people attend where ever they want. I know the church likes to fit these types of things into their itty bitty box for leadership and callings, but come one, they're making people mad. And rightly so.

[Thinker]

My neighbor joked about going on strike when the ward boundaries were changed.

My brother's stake was just reorganized. (They lost a ward) The guy/friend sitting next to him was really pissed off, like fuming mad. All of these friends he's made over the years and now he doesn't get to see them.

I say let people attend where ever they want. I know the church likes to fit these types of things into their itty bitty box for leadership and callings, but come one, they're making people mad. And rightly so.

Yeah, so much for free agency… it applies except for things like underwear, where you sit for church … oh & about a million other lds unspoken “commandments.” Fine print that is not disclosed until you’re already signed up.

Then again, you could just do your thing no matter what.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, so much for free agency… it applies except for things like underwear, where you sit for church … oh & about a million other lds unspoken “commandments.” Fine print that is not disclosed until you’re already signed up.

Then again, you could just do your thing no matter what.

We had a young, newly baptized, couple in our home 4+ years ago. We briefly talked about tithing/temple and he said it felt like he'd joined a multi-level marketing company. Once you get in they begin to introduce the "pay-to-play" part of the program. I told him it was all about faith...

...and then two years ago I called him (now divorced) and apologized about how I approached the church and tithing. Live and learn.

[silverado]

Hey, he posted a new video about Common Consent in the church:

[/quote

[Niemand]

It makes me think of the Grand Inquisitor from The Brothers Karamazov. The Grand Inquisitor threw the Savior in prison and then visits Him. The Inquisitor proclaims that they are working with the adversary and that once they've gotten full control over everyone then they will plan man's happiness which he says can't happen yet because of agency. On a related note, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints doesn't really like agency so much anymore, do they?

At the end of that story, without a word, Christ walks to the Inquisitor and kisses Him. The man is stunned, lets Jesus go, and orders him to never come back again.

If anyone is interested in a dramatised version (slightly dated), here's a 26 minute long version:

[TheChristian]

Surely oh surely, only one is fit to sit as Judge of our souls............

And I rejoice and look forward to that day when that Judge shows me His nail pierced hands.

I have been taken shackled before so many courts in my youth, standing there sometimes as guilty as sin, sometimes innocent of all what I was accused of, yes religious courts also have I endured.
The stuff of life, all goodly experience for the soul, yet defenceless, oft shackled, limited in what I could say, powerless and weak in my humanity and lack of wealth and social standing, I stood before men to be judged that were just as sinfull as I, for as scripture says God has penned all men in the same prison house of disobediance, all are sinners, our righteousness like filthy rotten rags before Him.
And so I look forward indeed to that day when I will be brought before that Judge with the nail pierced hands, for I know apon that day, will be the only day I will recieve a fair judgement and a honest hearing, wether He assigns me to heaven or the deepest hell, I will look apon His nail peirced hands and say to Him.

"My dear Lord Jesus, you give, you take away ... Blessed is your name forever"

What else could a man say to the Judge with the nail pierced hands.

[Ymarsakar]

Fred, I also encourage you to break the cycle of victim, victimizer, savior complex.

For your soul to grow, it can either stick with this paradigm or reach the next level.

If you want to live a life where you see more people like those that disfellowshiped the video guy, then you can stay in the victim consciousness, but I doubt you will prefer that timeline.

This bifurcation is happening across the world. Brics, families who don't agree with waxinations, political infighting, and so forth. It is a divide between the victim conscious and those who have grasped free will for self responsibility. This divides the goat from the sheep, for now.

The best thing the LDS org could have done for video man, was to kick him out. This cements his timeline. He is now on his own and can make quick progress now.

Perhaps he needed that kick in the can from the Godhead. He joined this forum after all, right. If they had not kicked him out, perhaps he would still wish to "toe the line" subconsciously.

[Telavian]

The best thing the LDS org could have done for video man, was to kick him out. This cements his timeline. He is now on his own and can make quick progress now.

I agree. However it is a very scary thing at first.
It is almost like living your whole life in a boat and being told the water is not safe. However, when you do go in the water you realize there is a whole vibrant ecosystem to explore.

Stepping into the dark will certainly cause people to make mistakes. However, if we trust in a loving God then he will help us correct our mistakes if we let him.

[Ymarsakar]

The best thing the LDS org could have done for video man, was to kick him out. This cements his timeline. He is now on his own and can make quick progress now.

I agree. However it is a very scary thing at first.
It is almost like living your whole life in a boat and being told the water is not safe. However, when you do go in the water you realize there is a whole vibrant ecosystem to explore.

Stepping into the dark will certainly cause people to make mistakes. However, if we trust in a loving God then we will help us correct our mistakes if we let him.

Bird has to fly out of the nest sooner or later, same for Primary.

To Godhead, perhaps 150 years of the Saints tradition was just Primary graduation. The line of the Old Ones, Adam and Noah, lived almost 1000 years after all.

[BigT]

The best thing the LDS org could have done for video man, was to kick him out. This cements his timeline. He is now on his own and can make quick progress now.

I agree. However it is a very scary thing at first.
It is almost like living your whole life in a boat and being told the water is not safe. However, when you do go in the water you realize there is a whole vibrant ecosystem to explore.

Stepping into the dark will certainly cause people to make mistakes. However, if we trust in a loving God then he will help us correct our mistakes if we let him.

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

[Telavian]

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

Mormonism does kind of get into your blood and then you can't think of anything else. I personally have always had a bit of a rebellious nature so have been on the outside of things to a degree.


Many years ago my Stake President asked me to shave my beard for a calling. I thought that was the stupidest thing in the world, but I did it anyways because I thought that was the right thing to do. I should have though asked him to show me in the scriptures where it said that was a requirement. The more members the church has that do things like that, the faster we can help things to improve.

[JuneBug12000]

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

Mormonism does kind of get into your blood and then you can't think of anything else. I personally have always had a bit of a rebellious nature so have been on the outside of things to a degree.


Many years ago my Stake President asked me to shave my beard for a calling. I thought that was the stupidest thing in the world, but I did it anyways because I thought that was the right thing to do. I should have though asked him to show me in the scriptures where it said that was a requirement. The more members the church has that do things like that, the faster we can help things to improve.

Are you the guy in the video? You and your family did a great job with seeing and living truth.

I kept thinking "He reminds me of my husband" similar faces, beards demeanor. Then "Funny, they have the same name." We have 8 kids not 7 though.

Same path, but in Idaho. Not out of the church yet, but I still teach Sunday school. I joke with my kids everytime I teach "This will be the week they "fire me" for speaking truth from the scriptures. "

[Teancum1]

I watched the video and feel so sorry for this guy. Having the Saul type leadership who culls the flock to protect it from erring from the brethren is a serious problem in more and more places. I did not wear a mask and have been very vocal with leadership regarding the plandemic. I have yet to be called to repentance as these men, although presumably TBM’s still allow agency.

I have family in the southeastern USA who have TBMs more of the connected Bev Campbell types- Sigma Chi and Order of the Coif. They wield their influence like they are the caretakers of all us lowly normal people. Shocking how this is becoming the norm more everywhere

I expect that one day I will have the Ammon Bundy experience- being persecuted by the high priests and scribes. I pray I’ll be like Abinadi and Shadrach Meshach and Abednego- unyielding to the powers of this world.

[GeeR]

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

Mormonism does kind of get into your blood and then you can't think of anything else. I personally have always had a bit of a rebellious nature so have been on the outside of things to a degree.


Many years ago my Stake President asked me to shave my beard for a calling. I thought that was the stupidest thing in the world, but I did it anyways because I thought that was the right thing to do. I should have though asked him to show me in the scriptures where it said that was a requirement. The more members the church has that do things like that, the faster we can help things to improve.

This reminded me of an incident that happened a few years ago. This customer and I were talking and he told me that he was expected to attend a leadership meeting the night before a stake conference. They had a visiting general authority, don't remember his name, address the priesthood brethren that night where he demanded all the brethren to shave their beards and mustaches off by morning when they would meet to see who was compliant. Everyone was compliant except my customer who was telling the story. The general authority singled him out and tried to shame him into compliance, he matter of factly told the authority that he would shave his beard and mustache off if the general authority would shave off his eye-brows. The matter was then dropped.

[Ymarsakar]

The best thing the LDS org could have done for video man, was to kick him out. This cements his timeline. He is now on his own and can make quick progress now.

I agree. However it is a very scary thing at first.
It is almost like living your whole life in a boat and being told the water is not safe. However, when you do go in the water you realize there is a whole vibrant ecosystem to explore.

Stepping into the dark will certainly cause people to make mistakes. However, if we trust in a loving God then he will help us correct our mistakes if we let him.

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

Discerning what is true or not, is difficult. The LDS was created by humans, mortals. Thus it taught that people don't always win or accomplish the plan. The Book of Mormon is full of successes but also failures.

The traditions of Mormonism or the LDS organization, is no more absolute than were the days of Alma and Mormon. Civilizations rise and fall. Empires rise and fall. The British sure thought their Empire of Perfidious Albion would never cease, same for the3rd Reich, 1000 years they thought it would last. A simple joke is that the reason God does not let the sun set on the British Empire is because God does not trust Perfidious Albion in the dark.

Is there a Divine Plan? Yes, there is a Divine Plan and Divine powers that work through mortals like Brigham Young or Joseph Smith, but perhaps people mistook their human leaders for gods and angels. I started the journey into the LDS faith and tradition from the first generation on. I did not read the teachings of later Presidents first. THat gave me a very different pov than someone who was raised with Mormon/Utah traditions. There was quite a lot of indoctrination I saw in Primary and missionary preparation/outcomes. I spoke up at times to guide them back to the truer path in my view, but that was only a local geography. It was up to the rest of the Saints to guide each other in the rest of the world, and results will be different. Even if the narrative is that "the church" is the same across the world, that cannot be true as individuals compose the "church". The "church" is not supposed to be a building.

It should never be frightening to know that the Godhead is true and that humans will fail. That's always been the case. What should concern people is that they told themselves a fiction, like the story of Santa Clause or as I call him, Satan Cause.

[Ymarsakar]

We haven’t been booted out, likely because I don’t have the guts to do what you did, but when I first realized the church might not be “true,” it was indeed frightening. Both sides of my family go back to the early 1840s, in the church.

Mormonism does kind of get into your blood and then you can't think of anything else. I personally have always had a bit of a rebellious nature so have been on the outside of things to a degree.


Many years ago my Stake President asked me to shave my beard for a calling. I thought that was the stupidest thing in the world, but I did it anyways because I thought that was the right thing to do. I should have though asked him to show me in the scriptures where it said that was a requirement. The more members the church has that do things like that, the faster we can help things to improve.

This reminded me of an incident that happened a few years ago. This customer and I were talking and he told me that he was expected to attend a leadership meeting the night before a stake conference. They had a visiting general authority, don't remember his name, address the priesthood brethren that night where he demanded all the brethren to shave their beards and mustaches off by morning when they would meet to see who was compliant. Everyone was compliant except my customer who was telling the story. The general authority singled him out and tried to shame him into compliance, he matter of factly told the authority that he would shave his beard and mustache off if the general authority would shave off his eye-brows. The matter was then dropped.

This beard thing may be a little bit more sinister than expected.

From what I know, the hair of women were to be covered because it attracts spiritual phenomenon. The copper/metal acts as an antennae and allows the person to pick up things or to be seen by spiritual entities like Ephesians 6:12 warns of.

Divine femininity absorbs. Divine masculine projects and exerts will upon the surroundings. Thus the beard of the old ones grew long to make it easier for them to pick up divine revelation and to perceive their spiritual surroundings, to shape them into a better mold.

By cutting off their hair, they become deaf, numb, to the spirit, good or bad. And thus they cannot pick up the evil vibrations or entities, nor can they hear the voice of the spirit as easily.

Perhaps we can look at the old Prophets of the LDS and check their beard lengths vs how accurate their prophecies/words were.

[Reluctant Watchman]

So… those of us who can’t grow a beard drew the short straw?