The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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Niemand
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The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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John Wycliffe who helped create the first full English Bible version
Image

Wycliffe brought the Bible to the masses and was repaid by having his remains burnt and thrown in a river by the Roman church. When there was an attempt to put him on trial in a synod, an earthquake struck the area and delayed it. A very rare thing in England. At least pre-fracking.

Background
"...It helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence" - John Wycliffe (c. 1328 –1384)
The Wycliffe Bible is something of a curiosity now, but it occupies a special place in the hearts of many English-speaking Christians, especially Protestants because it sought to break the stranglehold of the Roman Catholic Church upon the Bible. It predates the KJV by about two centuries. Thus there is a direct line between Wycliffe, the Reformation and the Restoration, and even RCs themselves being able to read the Bible in their own tongue.

The RC priesthood had ditched the Greek and Hebrew texts, and also banned the use of the Bible in languages that ordinary people understood, and instead promoted the Vulgate, a Latin translation of the Bible used throughout western Europe.

A hand printed version appeared in 1382 (one can only imagine the labour involved) and an amended one in 1395 by John Purvey.

Broadly speaking, there are two versions of Wycliffe out there. The first is the original version, which contains the old spelling e.g. "u" and "v" are interchangeable and "ſ" is used for "s" in some cases. The second is a more modernised spelling.

Here is the version complete with thorn (þ/th) and yogh (ȝ/gh)..
In þe bigynnyng God made of nouȝt heuene and erþe. Forsoþe þe erþe was idel and voide, and derknessis weren on the face of depþe; and the Spiryt of þe Lord was borun on the watris. And God seide, Liȝt be maad, and liȝt was maad.
Image
The beginning of John in the old spelling. Despite the age (14th century) it looks bizarre but is not complete gibberish. Some of the spellings are reminscent of Dutch (ij) and German.
In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word. This was in the bigynnyng at God. Alle thingis weren maad bi hym, and withouten hym was maad no thing, that thing that was maad. In hym was lijf, and the lijf was the liyt of men; and the liyt schyneth in derknessis, and derknessis comprehendiden not it.
Here is a modernised Wycliffe version. I think it retains the flavour and the style of the original while making it accessible to modern audiences.
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word. This was in the beginning at God. All things were made by him, and without[en] him was made nothing [nought], that thing that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men; and the light shineth in darknesses, and [the] darknesses comprehended not it.
Translation work
Wycliffe's version is a translation of the Vulgate into English, unlike the KJV, but it was also a massive influence upon the KJV despite that. The work represents the bravery and triumph of defiant Christians who risked death and imprisonment for what they had done. Unlike the KJV they did not have state support. Wycliffe is not quite the first attempt at Bible translation, since sections had been translated into Old English. It is however the first major attempt at an English translation. Because of the sincerity and faith of those involved in the project, I think it can be rated more highly than some recent projects which have had access to a wider range of materials but deliberately sought to introduce new cultural Marxist and sexual content into the text, such as the New International Version (NIV). Errors in Wycliffe are usually sincere, unlike NIV.
viewtopic.php?t=65785

We can thank the Wycliffe translators who worked under threat of death far more than the NIV ones who merely risked their university tenures... if that. Wycliffe's project edified and helped restored Christian truth to English speakers.

The known translators:
* John Wycliffe or Wickcliffe etc: A Yorkshireman, who spent much of his life at Oxford and died in Leicestershire. He would have been a native speaker of northern forms of English and familiar with the Midland varieties. When the church authorities tried to put together a synod at Oxford to deal with Wycliffe, it was delayed by an earthquake. Earthquakes are rare in England.
* Nicholas Hereford (died 1420): Strong believer in the right of Christians to read the Bible in their own language. In later life he reconciled with the Church of Rome and withdrew some criticisms. He was more familiar with western and south western forms of English.
* John Trevisa (1342-1402): English was Trevisa's second language. His mother tongue would have been Cornish which was still widely spoken then.
* John Purvey (c. 1354 – c. 1414): Purvey helped revise the version and update it. He came from Newport Pagnell in Buckinghamshire so would have been a speaker of south eastern forms of English (which became dominant). He was banned from preaching due to his activities.

Image
Their success is still palpable. More than 250 manuscripts of their translation still exist to this day and are the most common surviving document in Middle English. Their Bible helped crystallise the English language, with Chaucer hearing it among others, and its influence was felt as far away as Bohemia (the Czech Republic) where it inspired Jan Hus in his proto-Protestant movement.

Twenty years later the English church authorities were still terrified of new Bible translations which would threaten their priestcraft. Even after his death, they felt threatened by Wycliffe himself (Wikipedia again)
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe (on 4 May 1415) a heretic and under the ban of the Church. It was decreed that his books be burned and his remains be exhumed. In 1428, at the command of Pope Martin V, Wycliffe's remains were dug up, burned, and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth.
Influence on the KJV:
Later Wycliffe: "For God louede so the world, that he ȝaf his oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf."
King James Version: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Last edited by Niemand on January 17th, 2023, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheChristian
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by TheChristian »

In every generation there has always been a faithfull remnant.

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Niemand
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Niemand »

TheChristian wrote: January 17th, 2023, 1:01 pm In every generation there has always been a faithfull remnant.
God bless Wycliffe and Tyndale and all the rest who brought us the Bible in our own languages.

The corrupt church wanted to burn Wycliffe's Bible yet it ran to two editions and we still have 250 of them around today.

The fact that an earthquake delayed his trial... in Oxford... of all places... should have been a warning to those who tried to persecute true Christianity.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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Niemand wrote: January 17th, 2023, 6:59 am John Wycliffe who helped create the first full English Bible version
Image

Wycliffe brought the Bible to the masses and was repaid by having his remains burnt and thrown in a river by the Roman church. When there was an attempt to put him on trial in a synod, an earthquake struck the area and delayed it. A very rare thing in England. At least pre-fracking.

Background
"...It helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence" - John Wycliffe (c. 1328 –1384)
The Wycliffe Bible is something of a curiosity now, but it occupies a special place in the hearts of many English-speaking Christians, especially Protestants because it sought to break the stranglehold of the Roman Catholic Church upon the Bible. It predates the KJV by about two centuries. Thus there is a direct line between Wycliffe, the Reformation and the Restoration, and even RCs themselves being able to read the Bible in their own tongue.

The RC priesthood had ditched the Greek and Hebrew texts, and also banned the use of the Bible in languages that ordinary people understood, and instead promoted the Vulgate, a Latin translation of the Bible used throughout western Europe.

A hand printed version appeared in 1382 (one can only imagine the labour involved) and an amended one in 1395 by John Purvey.

Broadly speaking, there are two versions of Wycliffe out there. The first is the original version, which contains the old spelling e.g. "u" and "v" are interchangeable and "ſ" is used for "s" in some cases. The second is a more modernised spelling.

Here is the version complete with thorn (th) and yogh.
In þe bigynnyng God made of nouȝt heuene and erþe. Forsoþe þe erþe was idel and voide, and derknessis weren on the face of depþe; and the Spiryt of þe Lord was borun on the watris. And God seide, Liȝt be maad, and liȝt was maad.
Image
The beginning of John in the old spelling. Despite the age (14th century) it looks bizarre but is not complete gibberish. Some of the spellings are reminscent of Dutch (ij) and German.
In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word. This was in the bigynnyng at God. Alle thingis weren maad bi hym, and withouten hym was maad no thing, that thing that was maad. In hym was lijf, and the lijf was the liyt of men; and the liyt schyneth in derknessis, and derknessis comprehendiden not it.
Here is a modernised Wycliffe version. I think it retains the flavour and the style of the original while making it accessible to modern audiences.
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word. This was in the beginning at God. All things were made by him, and without[en] him was made nothing [nought], that thing that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men; and the light shineth in darknesses, and [the] darknesses comprehended not it.
Translation work
Wycliffe's version is a translation of the Vulgate into English, unlike the KJV, but it was also a massive influence upon the KJV despite that. The work represents the bravery and triumph of defiant Christians who risked death and imprisonment for what they had done. Unlike the KJV they did not have state support. Wycliffe is not quite the first attempt at Bible translation, since sections had been translated into Old English. It is however the first major attempt at an English translation. Because of the sincerity and faith of those involved in the project, I think it can be rated more highly than some recent projects which have had access to a wider range of materials but deliberately sought to introduce new cultural Marxist and sexual content into the text, such as the New International Version (NIV). Errors in Wycliffe are usually sincere, unlike NIV.
viewtopic.php?t=65785

We can thank the Wycliffe translators who worked under threat of death far more than the NIV ones who merely risked their university tenures... if that. Wycliffe's project edified and helped restored Christian truth to English speakers.

The known translators:
* John Wycliffe or Wickcliffe etc: A Yorkshireman, who spent much of his life at Oxford and died in Leicestershire. He would have been a native speaker of northern forms of English and familiar with the Midland varieties. When the church authorities tried to put together a synod at Oxford to deal with Wycliffe, it was delayed by an earthquake. Earthquakes are rare in England.
* Nicholas Hereford (died 1420): Strong believer in the right of Christians to read the Bible in their own language. In later life he reconciled with the Church of Rome and withdrew some criticisms. He was more familiar with western and south western forms of English.
* John Trevisa (1342-1402): English was Trevisa's second language. His mother tongue would have been Cornish which was still widely spoken then.
* John Purvey (c. 1354 – c. 1414): Purvey helped revise the version and update it. He came from Newport Pagnell in Buckinghamshire so would have been a speaker of south eastern forms of English (which became dominant). He was banned from preaching due to his activities.

Image
Their success is still palpable. More than 250 manuscripts of their translation still exist to this day and are the most common surviving document in Middle English. Their Bible helped crystallise the English language, with Chaucer hearing it among others, and its influence was felt as far away as Bohemia (the Czech Republic) where it inspired Jan Hus in his proto-Protestant movement.

Twenty years later the English church authorities were still terrified of new Bible translations which would threaten their priestcraft. Even after his death, they felt threatened by Wycliffe himself (Wikipedia again)
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe (on 4 May 1415) a heretic and under the ban of the Church. It was decreed that his books be burned and his remains be exhumed. In 1428, at the command of Pope Martin V, Wycliffe's remains were dug up, burned, and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth.
Influence on the KJV:
Later Wycliffe: "For God louede so the world, that he ȝaf his oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf."
King James Version: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Excellent post.

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TheChristian
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by TheChristian »

The Catholic church was wary of unathorised translations of the bible being promoted, which would in their veiw cause great divisions.
The reformation indeed did bring great enlightenment but also division, swiftly the protestant movement splintered into many sects and churchs.
Were as the Catholic church seeking to protect the bible and its authorised translation, had for many long centuries had been stable and had not splintered into a myriad of factions.
However the old catholic church was a tired old woman, she had served her purpose, she had united the western and northern christian countries against Islam and thus drove said evil from her midst and preserved the essence of Christianity and the Bible from destruction in western and northern christian lands, her work was done, it was time for the birth of the Translation of the Bible into the mother tongues thru out all christian lands, a slow, painfull process. Involving blood, sweat and many tears, yet great joy when that birthing process was over.
We can find many catholics from the earliest days translating portions of the bible into their mother tongue, in England we have several including the Venerable Bede and King Alfred. He had portions of the old testament law translated so he could establish English law apon Bible laws and teachings.
You could say Wycliffe was the fullfillment of the hopes of those earlier British catholics whom had began the process of preparing the way for the fullness of the Bible to be translated into their mother tongue.

Neimand my brother, have you read the New testament in the old Scots tongue?
Last edited by TheChristian on January 19th, 2023, 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Niemand »

TheChristian wrote: January 18th, 2023, 6:26 pm Neimand my brother, have you read the New testament in the old Scots tongue?
I've got Lorimer's NT. The Devil speaks English in it. 😆

There is an old version of the Psalms snd a couple of more recent versions which don't always work. Lorimer was at least a decent stylist. I think there are a couple of other ones but I'm not over familiar with them.

Also have the Bible in Scottish Gaelic. I have a copy which was given to me well over thirty years ago. The language in it is very different from what people speak. Also have a Gaelic Bible app which gives you several versions.

Anyway, Scotland was kind of an exception as Reformations go, because the Reformers didn't produce translations for the local languages. We didn't get our own Bible translations until late on. We got an English Bible and an Irish Bible instead. As for the folk in Orkney and Shetland, they never got their own Bible which is probably why their language died out there.

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TheChristian
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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Scotland was the only country in europe that totally went Protestant, there was a wee group of Born Again Christians that brought out a New Testament in the old Doric language of North eastern Aberdeenshire, which was a mix of the old Scots tongue with a bit of the viking langauges in it.
Doric is still spoken today by the Fraserburgh/Peterhead folk, no doubt watered down today.
The Born Again Christian group whom brought the Doric new testament out were the Camerons from Peterhead, I dont know if they are still extant. They had lively meetings and preached oft in America.

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Niemand
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Niemand »

TheChristian wrote: January 19th, 2023, 12:17 pm Scotland was the only country in europe that totally went Protestant, there was a wee group of Born Again Christians that brought out a New Testament in the old Doric language of North eastern Aberdeenshire, which was a mix of the old Scots tongue with a bit of the viking langauges in it.
Doric is still spoken today by the Fraserburgh/Peterhead folk, no doubt watered down today.
The Born Again Christian group whom brought the Doric new testament out were the Camerons from Peterhead, I dont know if they are still extant. They had lively meetings and preached oft in America.
There were a few pockets of Scotland that stayed Catholic. Some of the landward bits of Banffshire, especially up in the hills. Some of the Hebrides as well, like Barra, and one or two places like Moidart in the west.

But John Knox never seemed that interested in translating the Bible into the three languages being spoken in Scotland at the time. (The one folk forget is Norn.)

The Doric spoken by the fishing folk is (or was) very different to the farming folk (let alone the Travellers!). There's a lot of Gaelic in Doric, but there is a very anti-Gaelic tendency in the north east so some folk get hostile if you bring it up. A lot of the names of fish, bugs and plants etc are Gaelic there like gollach(an) etc

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TheChristian
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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The LDS church keeps the Bible in a medieval english language..........

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Niemand
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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TheChristian wrote: January 21st, 2023, 1:58 pm The LDS church keeps the Bible in a medieval english language..........
Sort of. I find that the KJV has a kind of beauty to a lot of it. Wycliffe does as well to some extent. A lot of the more recent Bible translations aren't written beautifully and sometimes their style is even more clunky than mine. :D The recent Bible translations also omit significant verses and change things around for political reasons. (See my NIV discussion here viewtopic.php?t=65785 )

I think the difficulties with the KJV are often exaggerated, although there are a few usages in it I'm not a fan of... like "bowels of mercy". There are a few places where the old words are closer to Scottish usage weirdly enough, so maybe I'm biased there.

The way things are going, "he" and "she" may cause problems. The NIV already uses singular "they" in some cases to appear "non-binary".

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TheChristian
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

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Yes the King James has beautiful prose, but due to it being written in a type of English that has not been used by the common english speaking peoples for several hundred years it oft obscures by said medieval beauty and archiac language and no longer used words very important teachings that are not understandable to todays English speaking peoples.
There are today most excellent modern day english versions of the bible were the translaters have by far more access to earlier biblical manuscripts than the King James translaters had access to.
Yet I agree with you there are New translations such as the JW bible that has altered, omitted or added words, particulary those that prove that our Lord Jesus is Almighty God, the God of the old and New testaments.
Just as the people of Wycliffes time needed a Bible in the language of their day, so do we today.......
We need a bible we can relate to, the King James version was wonderfull for the people of its day for they whom could read could readily understand it for it was written in the language of their times.

My favourite New testament is " The New Testament in modern English for Schools" written by J.B.Philips, the New revised version.

larsenb
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: January 17th, 2023, 6:59 am John Wycliffe who helped create the first full English Bible version
Image

Wycliffe brought the Bible to the masses and was repaid by having his remains burnt and thrown in a river by the Roman church. When there was an attempt to put him on trial in a synod, an earthquake struck the area and delayed it. A very rare thing in England. At least pre-fracking. . . . .
Thanks, Niemand and others. I had no idea about the earlier than Tyndale efforts to translate the Bible into versions of English, Gaelic or other dialects. Very illuminating!

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Cruiserdude
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Cruiserdude »

TheChristian wrote: January 22nd, 2023, 12:32 pm Yes the King James has beautiful prose, but due to it being written in a type of English that has not been used by the common english speaking peoples for several hundred years it oft obscures by said medieval beauty and archiac language and no longer used words very important teachings that are not understandable to todays English speaking peoples.
There are today most excellent modern day english versions of the bible were the translaters have by far more access to earlier biblical manuscripts than the King James translaters had access to.
Yet I agree with you there are New translations such as the JW bible that has altered, omitted or added words, particulary those that prove that our Lord Jesus is Almighty God, the God of the old and New testaments.
Just as the people of Wycliffes time needed a Bible in the language of their day, so do we today.......
We need a bible we can relate to, the King James version was wonderfull for the people of its day for they whom could read could readily understand it for it was written in the language of their times.

My favourite New testament is " The New Testament in modern English for Schools" written by J.B.Philips, the New revised version.
I'm going to check into this version of New Testament by JB Philips, thanks for sharing it👍

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Cruiserdude
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Cruiserdude »

TheChristian wrote: January 22nd, 2023, 12:32 pm Yes the King James has beautiful prose, but due to it being written in a type of English that has not been used by the common english speaking peoples for several hundred years it oft obscures by said medieval beauty and archiac language and no longer used words very important teachings that are not understandable to todays English speaking peoples.
There are today most excellent modern day english versions of the bible were the translaters have by far more access to earlier biblical manuscripts than the King James translaters had access to.
Yet I agree with you there are New translations such as the JW bible that has altered, omitted or added words, particulary those that prove that our Lord Jesus is Almighty God, the God of the old and New testaments.
Just as the people of Wycliffes time needed a Bible in the language of their day, so do we today.......
We need a bible we can relate to, the King James version was wonderfull for the people of its day for they whom could read could readily understand it for it was written in the language of their times.

My favourite New testament is " The New Testament in modern English for Schools" written by J.B.Philips, the New revised version.
I quickly found this and just wanted to share it here.
https://www.bible-researcher.com/phillips.html

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Wolfwoman
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Wolfwoman »

This was super interesting. I thought, oh an English translation of the Bible. I will be able to read that. No… that was not the English I know. 🙂

I am also super grateful for all those who risked and sacrificed their lives to translate the Bible into English.

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Niemand
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Re: The Wycliffe Bible Translation, the original English Bible

Post by Niemand »

Wolfwoman wrote: March 28th, 2023, 8:00 am This was super interesting. I thought, oh an English translation of the Bible. I will be able to read that. No… that was not the English I know. 🙂

I am also super grateful for all those who risked and sacrificed their lives to translate the Bible into English.
It was a major influence on the direction of the English language. The most obvious advantage it had at the time was that the translators came from different places and spoke different dialects, and so they tried to find the common ground between them... which led to a more standard English.

We know Geoffrey Chaucer read the Wycliffe Bible and he is probably the most important writer at the time. Chaucer was read in Scotland (which was independent at the time) and influenced our literature as well as England's. I've no idea if Wycliffe was read north of the Border, but it wouldn't surprise me. A much higher percentage of our population would have been Gaelic speaking back then so it Wycliffe wouldn't have been understood by many Scots.

There are more than a few traces of Wycliffe upon the KJV.... and so it will have had an influence on the way we speak and write right now.

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