2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

[Primary Outcast]

FYI the BoM and D&C are clear about two restorations. The Book of Mormon is split into two parts: the lesser things and the greater things.

Joseph Smith restored the lesser things and it is meant to test our faith. This is why the Church was, rather is under condemnation because we have taken lightly the things that we have been given.

We are still waiting for the greater things to be revealed, to receive the sealed portion.

Ether 4 explains some of this. It won't be given until the Day of the Lord, the Time of the End, when we see the book of revelation unfolding upon the Earth.



14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.

The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.

The second restoration has two acts.

Read D&C 101:43-69

Yes the saints have never been perfect and we all need chastening. Certainly everyone goes through this parable within their own life. Fortunately the Lord explains that the restoration would continue from that day forward without a break.

67 Therefore, a commandment I give unto all the churches, that they shall continue to gather together unto the places which I have appointed.

If all was lost then the Lord would have told the saints to go back to where they came from, there's no point in gathering to the apostate church, and they would need to wait a couple hundred years for the next restoration.

[iWriteStuff]

What about zero restorations?

Or one restoration and two reformations?

Side thought: what if Christ never intended to set up a corporate structure?

[Primary Outcast]

Yesterday morning, my family read from Mormon 8, which prophesies the falling away of the leaders of the church, and the apostasy of every single church, in the last days.

Mormon 8
24 And he knoweth their prayers, that they were in behalf of their brethren. And he knoweth their faith, for in his name could they remove mountains; and in his name could they cause the earth to shake; and by the power of his word did they cause prisons to tumble to the earth; yea, even the fiery furnace could not harm them, neither wild beasts nor poisonous serpents, because of the power of his word.

25 And behold, their prayers were also in behalf of him that the Lord should suffer to bring these things forth.

26 And no one need say they shall not come, for they surely shall, for the Lord hath spoken it; for out of the earth shall they come, by the hand of the Lord, and none can stay it; and it shall come in a day when it shall be said that miracles are done away; and it shall come even as if one should speak from the dead.

27 And it shall come in a day when the blood of saints shall cry unto the Lord, because of secret combinations and the works of darkness.

28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

29 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be heard of fires, and tempests, and vapors of smoke in foreign lands;

30 And there shall also be heard of wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places.

31 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day. But wo unto such, for they are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.

32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.

33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.

35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
-
In spite of the popular philosophy of the modern church, the apostasy is not in the past, it is now. We see it unfolding before our very eyes. Most do not want to believe it. But, the witnesses, ancient prophets who saw our day, testify it happens. People like Mormon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Mark, and Jesus Christ.

Mormon keeps saying something will come in the days of this wickedness. What is coming??? Verse 26 explains that when the Book of Mormon comes from out of the earth, the world would be in the wicked conditions as explained subsequent verses. The coming forth of the Book of Mormon from the earth is also linked with the Lord remembering the covenant in this chapter.

[Primary Outcast]

What about zero restorations?

Or one restoration and two reformations?

Side thought: what if Christ never intended to set up a corporate structure?

The scriptures and Joseph Smith used the words "recover" "restore" and "gather" all associated with the second time. It's about restoring God's covenant people, which happens by making and keeping covenants.

[Primary Outcast]

The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.

You seem far too stubborn to be teachable, brother, but I suppose we all have to check ourselves there.

JS does not say when he thought the first time was, he only thought he was starting the second time. He knew it would have been the last time and therefore would have thought that it had to be the second time. He didn't see how his saints would fail.

Have you done a search on every time "restore" is used in the scriptures? It is never used in connection with the gospel or the church. Restoration means the people being restored to all the promises of the covenant, including their lands of inheritance. The Joseph Smith Papers project shows that the terms "restored gospel" and "restored church" were never used by anyone in the 1800's. It's an early 1900's creation. The gospel and the church have always been around in some lesser version or another.

Ransomme was correct, the first restoration was the lesser things and the second will be the greater things.

We are equally stubborn. The unstoppable force meets the unmovable object.

JS said when he thought the first time was, and he said that the second time had arrived. You can say he was wrong, or ignorant. For me I believe what he said.

The time has at last arrived when the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has set his hand again the second time to recover the remnants of his people, which have been left from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea, and with them to bring in the fulness of the Gentiles, and establish that covenant with them, which was promised when their sins should be taken away. See Isaiah 11; Romans 11:25, 26 and 27, and also Jeremiah 31:31, 32 and 33. This covenant has never been established with the house of Israel, nor with the house of Judah, for it requires two parties to make a covenant, and those two parties must be agreed, or no covenant can be made.

Christ, in the days of His flesh, proposed to make a covenant with them, but they rejected Him and His proposals, and in consequence thereof, they were broken off, and no covenant was made with them at that time. But their unbelief has not rendered the promise of God of none effect: no, for there was another day limited in David, which was the day of His power; and then His people, Israel, should be a willing people;—and He would write His law in their hearts, and print it in their thoughts; their sins and their iniquities He would remember no more.

Thus after this chosen family had rejected Christ and His proposals, the heralds of salvation said to them, “Lo we turn unto the Gentiles;” and the Gentiles received the covenant, and were grafted in from whence the chosen family were broken off; but the Gentiles have not continued in the goodness of God, but have departed from the faith that was once delivered to the Saints, and have broken the covenant in which their fathers were established (see Isaiah 24:5); and have become high-minded, and have not feared; therefore, but few of them will be gathered with the chosen family. Have not the pride, high-mindedness, and unbelief of the Gentiles, provoked the Holy One of Israel to withdraw His Holy Spirit from them, and send forth His judgments to scourge them for their wickedness? This is certainly the case. (TPJS 14-15)

[Primary Outcast]

Understanding the 1st and 2nd times of restoration are detailed in Jacob 5, so an understanding of this chapter helps. This is also where we learn if there would be a reprieve after Joseph Smith comes or not. I've updated my summary which I think is the most concise and accurate version available:

THE FIRST SCATTERING AND ATTEMPT AT RESTORATION (PLANNING)
7-9 so Christ allows the Gentiles to enter into the covenant (around 37 AD), and the original groups of people are scattered around the world, and the more wicked of them died (around 720 BC, 600 BC, and 70 AD).

1ST Restoration (EXECUTING THE GENTILE PLAN)
10-12 The Gentiles are given the covenant, and they are watched over and nourished

HOI Scattering
13-14 The House of Israel is scattered

1ST SCATTERING AND RESTORATION (EVALUATION & PLANNING)
16-18 the Gentiles that entered into the covenant do good things
19-22 the "first" group of scattered Israel went to the poorest spot in the world and they did good works
23 the second group went to a place worse than the 1st and they did good also
24 a 3rd group also did good
25 the 4th and last group (Lehi) went to a good spot and split into a good group and a bad group
26-27 Christ decides not to destroy the wicked group
28 Christ continues to care for his people

The First Time Ends in Failure (2nd Evaluation)
29-37 After a long time... the Gentiles preserved the Bible, but they have fallen into apostasy
38-39 the 1st, 2nd, and 4th groups all fell into apostasy
40, 45 and the lamanites overpowered the Nephites
41-42, 46 all of the branches of Israel and the Gentiles had been corrupted
43 the Americas is the best land in the world
44 and the Lord removed the Jaredites from the land to make way for Lehi's family.
47 Satan corrupted the world and causes Christ to grieve
48 pride caused the fall


Scattering (Planning)
52-54 Wicked scattered Israel will be brought back to their place of origin,


Scattering (Execution)
55-56 The Gentiles will come to America, and the Jews will go back to Israel. notice the lack of nourishing, pruning, and support. This is only a physical relocation


2nd Restoration (Planning)
57 and the most wicked part of the gentiles that had been grafted in will be removed.
58, 65 The vineyard will be cared for, and the wicked will be removed by and by
59-60 so that the good can overcome the evil and the covenant be preserved.
61-62 Prophets will work for the last time
63 The gospel will come first to the Gentiles and then to scattered Israel
66 The wicked will be burned

THE SECOND TIME (Execution)
70 The lord sent Joseph Smith as His servant, and Joseph brought a few other prophets to help.
71 This is the last time this will happen
72-74 The Lord works with Joseph Smith and the prophets, the servants are faithful to the commandments, the wicked are separated and cast away, and the righteous people became one with each other as a Zion society
75 The Lord calls his servants together (maybe Adam-ondi-ahman)
76 there will be peace on earth through the millennium
77 and then evil will come back into the world, and then the world will be burned with fire.

[InfoWarrior82]

FYI the BoM and D&C are clear about two restorations. The Book of Mormon is split into two parts: the lesser things and the greater things.

Joseph Smith restored the lesser things and it is meant to test our faith. This is why the Church was, rather is under condemnation because we have taken lightly the things that we have been given.

We are still waiting for the greater things to be revealed, to receive the sealed portion.

Ether 4 explains some of this. It won't be given until the Day of the Lord, the Time of the End, when we see the book of revelation unfolding upon the Earth.



14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.

The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.

The second restoration has two acts.

Read D&C 101:43-69

Yes the saints have never been perfect and we all need chastening. Certainly everyone goes through this parable within their own life. Fortunately the Lord explains that the restoration would continue from that day forward without a break.

67 Therefore, a commandment I give unto all the churches, that they shall continue to gather together unto the places which I have appointed.

If all was lost then the Lord would have told the saints to go back to where they came from, there's no point in gathering to the apostate church, and they would need to wait a couple hundred years for the next restoration.

1. There certainly was a break. The Lord condemned the church after their apostasy in D&C 84. Also, the Lord explains in D&C 101 that because of this, the church will come and be destroyed by Satan and only a remnant will remain with another mighty and strong prophet that will actually do prophet things unlike these men.

2. We failed in that gathering to the places appointed. We are in a period of apostasy like the church during Christ's mortal ministry.

[Shawn Henry]

The conditions and payment for the "Restoration of all things" was acomplished apon Calvary, the proof there of was the empty Tomb, He had risen!
And when that True Prophet, King, Priest and God returns to this earth Jesus of Nazerath you will see that Restoration in all its glory......

Kinda sounds like if you had lived about 2000 years ago and John the Baptist had offered to help prepare you for Jesus you would have been oblivious to his mission and would have told him to pound sand while you wait for Jesus to prepare you himself.

If his forerunner had a purpose the first time, he definitely will have a purpose the second time.

[Shawn Henry]

So how about you all quit acting like you’ve figured it out. It is a fool’s errand.

Sorry Dad! We'll be good from now on, I promise. Can we please come out and play again? Please! Please! Please!


Studying and knowing the signs of the times is a commandment, not a fool's errand.

[Shawn Henry]

Yes the saints have never been perfect and we all need chastening. Certainly everyone goes through this parable within their own life. Fortunately the Lord explains that the restoration would continue from that day forward without a break.

67 Therefore, a commandment I give unto all the churches, that they shall continue to gather together unto the places which I have appointed.

If all was lost then the Lord would have told the saints to go back to where they came from, there's no point in gathering to the apostate church, and they would need to wait a couple hundred years for the next restoration.

We didn't continue gathering to those appointed places, now did we?

The Lord appointed, via an actual revelation published in the D&C, all of the Stakes of Zion: Kirtland, Jackson County, Far West, and Nauvoo. Those are the only appointed Stakes of Zion. There are no others in the revelations.

[Shawn Henry]

The coming forth of the Book of Mormon from the earth is also linked with the Lord remembering the covenant in this chapter.

The BoM comes forth twice. Once with the "lesser things" and a second time with "the greater things". Read 2 Nephi 3 and you will two different times if you look closely. The second time is "unto the convincing" of when it went forth the first time.

[Shawn Henry]

Christ, in the days of His flesh, proposed to make a covenant with them, but they rejected Him and His proposals

This is being brought into the covenant for the first time, a covenant which would mean they too would be scattered and one day gathered. You can't gather the dispersed of Judah before they have been dispersed. They were already gathered in one place during Christ's ministry. You can't fulfill a promise to gather when they are still in a gathered state.

[Joan7]

The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.

You seem far too stubborn to be teachable, brother, but I suppose we all have to check ourselves there.

JS does not say when he thought the first time was, he only thought he was starting the second time. He knew it would have been the last time and therefore would have thought that it had to be the second time. He didn't see how his saints would fail.

Have you done a search on every time "restore" is used in the scriptures? It is never used in connection with the gospel or the church. Restoration means the people being restored to all the promises of the covenant, including their lands of inheritance. The Joseph Smith Papers project shows that the terms "restored gospel" and "restored church" were never used by anyone in the 1800's. It's an early 1900's creation. The gospel and the church have always been around in some lesser version or another.

Ransomme was correct, the first restoration was the lesser things and the second will be the greater things.

We are equally stubborn. The unstoppable force meets the unmovable object.

JS said when he thought the first time was, and he said that the second time had arrived. You can say he was wrong, or ignorant. For me I believe what he said.

The time has at last arrived when the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has set his hand again the second time to recover the remnants of his people, which have been left from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea, and with them to bring in the fulness of the Gentiles, and establish that covenant with them, which was promised when their sins should be taken away. See Isaiah 11; Romans 11:25, 26 and 27, and also Jeremiah 31:31, 32 and 33. This covenant has never been established with the house of Israel, nor with the house of Judah, for it requires two parties to make a covenant, and those two parties must be agreed, or no covenant can be made.

Christ, in the days of His flesh, proposed to make a covenant with them, but they rejected Him and His proposals, and in consequence thereof, they were broken off, and no covenant was made with them at that time. But their unbelief has not rendered the promise of God of none effect: no, for there was another day limited in David, which was the day of His power; and then His people, Israel, should be a willing people;—and He would write His law in their hearts, and print it in their thoughts; their sins and their iniquities He would remember no more.

Thus after this chosen family had rejected Christ and His proposals, the heralds of salvation said to them, “Lo we turn unto the Gentiles;” and the Gentiles received the covenant, and were grafted in from whence the chosen family were broken off; but the Gentiles have not continued in the goodness of God, but have departed from the faith that was once delivered to the Saints, and have broken the covenant in which their fathers were established (see Isaiah 24:5); and have become high-minded, and have not feared; therefore, but few of them will be gathered with the chosen family. Have not the pride, high-mindedness, and unbelief of the Gentiles, provoked the Holy One of Israel to withdraw His Holy Spirit from them, and send forth His judgments to scourge them for their wickedness? This is certainly the case. (TPJS 14-15)

Because the quote you believe is from the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, I took the time to dig to find the original source. It turns out, this is not in his journal history at all. The first time it shows up is in JS, History, 1838–1856, vol. A-1, created 11 June 1839–24 Aug. 1843; handwriting of James Mulholland, Robert B. Thompson, William W. Phelps, and Willard Richards https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ource-note

Here is the search link https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/searc ... sary|event

In order to determine the validity of this quote, you must understand the timing of the writing of the Joseph Smith, History text. When Joseph died in 1844, he had completed the text to about half way through 1838. This text was concerning 1839, and written after Joseph's death. So he was not there to authorize it. It is, therefore, necessary to see the original source document. I cannot find the original source, which would have been written during Joseph's life.

This quote, is like many others, dubious. Because Brigham and his crew edited most of Joseph's records, and rewrote them in their new way of doing things.

[Primary Outcast]

Here's the problem:

1. Joseph Smith said that "the second time" of restoration was during his time. see D&C 137:6. This is fact. The Book of Mormon says it 5 times. I'll grant that 3 of the references could be argued that they are referring to a time other than 1830, but it is impossible in my mind to make the other references fit with any other time.
2. Jacob 5:72-74 says that the servants in the second time "did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things".
3. Jacob 6:2 says that the second time is the Last Time.

I haven't seen a single substantive argument that refutes these 3 facts. None of these statements can be interpreted in any other way. To refute my logic, you have to say that when you covenant with the Lord through baptism that you are not becoming part of the House of Israel and becoming God's covenant people. You would have to say that Joseph didn't know where he was in history and he didn't know what he was talking about, or he was flat out lying. And you have to rework the allegory of the Olive tree and 2 Ne 25 to another time period.

Any interpretations of scripture could contradict Jacob 5:72-74, but your interpretation of D&C 101 (for example) cannot be more clear and hold more weight than Jacob 5:72-74.

The end is very near, and there isn't time to wait for another restoration. The time is now. Please ponder what I've said, please pray.

[Joan7]

Here's the problem:

1. Joseph Smith said that "the second time" of restoration was during his time. see D&C 137:6. This is fact. The Book of Mormon says it 5 times. I'll grant that 3 of the references could be argued that they are referring to a time other than 1830, but it is impossible in my mind to make the other references fit with any other time.
2. Jacob 5:72-74 says that the servants in the second time "did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things".
3. Jacob 6:2 says that the second time is the Last Time.

I haven't seen a single substantive argument that refutes these 3 facts. None of these statements can be interpreted in any other way. To refute my logic, you have to say that when you covenant with the Lord through baptism that you are not becoming part of the House of Israel and becoming God's covenant people. You would have to say that Joseph didn't know where he was in history and he didn't know what he was talking about, or he was flat out lying. And you have to rework the allegory of the Olive tree and 2 Ne 25 to another time period.

Any interpretations of scripture could contradict Jacob 5:72-74, but your interpretation of D&C 101 (for example) cannot be more clear and hold more weight than Jacob 5:72-74.

The end is very near, and there isn't time to wait for another restoration. The time is now. Please ponder what I've said, please pray.

If there is to be a discussion on what you address, we must discern true sources from false sources. Section 137 was not in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1876, section 101 was in that sacred volume when Joseph was alive.
As far as Jacob 5, I would believe that Jesus has been down here laboring with other Heavenly Servants since the time of Joseph. Who is it that has seen Jesus personally laboring in this vineyard? Why do we expect the other servants He called, are the men who led the Church? It is my expectation that the servants He called are not who you think they are. As evidence, we have the "Not Good," like Brigham Young stealing another man's wife, and taking her to Nauvoo. She left her 6 children behind. We have to look at the realities of what the Church has been. God is a God of truth, and He has said that the truth will be made known, like in Doctrine and Covenants 1 or Isaiah 1.

[cab]

So how about you all quit acting like you’ve figured it out. It is a fool’s errand.

Sorry Dad! We'll be good from now on, I promise. Can we please come out and play again? Please! Please! Please!


Studying and knowing the signs of the times is a commandment, not a fool's errand.

Study - good. Seeking the Lord - better. Thinking you’ve figured it out - foolish.

[Primary Outcast]

Here's the problem:

1. Joseph Smith said that "the second time" of restoration was during his time. see D&C 137:6. This is fact. The Book of Mormon says it 5 times. I'll grant that 3 of the references could be argued that they are referring to a time other than 1830, but it is impossible in my mind to make the other references fit with any other time.
2. Jacob 5:72-74 says that the servants in the second time "did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things".
3. Jacob 6:2 says that the second time is the Last Time.

I haven't seen a single substantive argument that refutes these 3 facts. None of these statements can be interpreted in any other way. To refute my logic, you have to say that when you covenant with the Lord through baptism that you are not becoming part of the House of Israel and becoming God's covenant people. You would have to say that Joseph didn't know where he was in history and he didn't know what he was talking about, or he was flat out lying. And you have to rework the allegory of the Olive tree and 2 Ne 25 to another time period.

Any interpretations of scripture could contradict Jacob 5:72-74, but your interpretation of D&C 101 (for example) cannot be more clear and hold more weight than Jacob 5:72-74.

The end is very near, and there isn't time to wait for another restoration. The time is now. Please ponder what I've said, please pray.

If there is to be a discussion on what you address, we must discern true sources from false sources. Section 137 was not in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1876, section 101 was in that sacred volume when Joseph was alive.
As far as Jacob 5, I would believe that Jesus has been down here laboring with other Heavenly Servants since the time of Joseph. Who is it that has seen Jesus personally laboring in this vineyard? Why do we expect the other servants He called, are the men who led the Church? It is my expectation that the servants He called are not who you think they are. As evidence, we have the "Not Good," like Brigham Young stealing another man's wife, and taking her to Nauvoo. She left her 6 children behind. We have to look at the realities of what the Church has been. God is a God of truth, and He has said that the truth will be made known, like in Doctrine and Covenants 1 or Isaiah 1.

More distraction, look here, don't look here tactics.

D&C 137 came from the JS, “Sketch Book for the use of Joseph Smith, jr.,” Journal, Sept. 1835–Apr. 1836 and it was written by Warren Parrish just as several other revelations were.

It's interesting to see the actual page because "the second time" was added afterwards by Parrish in a different ink color, meaning he was probably told to include those words after reading it back to Joseph Smith. Nobody else would care to add that in randomly. (I tried to upload the image but it keeps failing).

[Joan7]

Here's the problem:

1. Joseph Smith said that "the second time" of restoration was during his time. see D&C 137:6. This is fact. The Book of Mormon says it 5 times. I'll grant that 3 of the references could be argued that they are referring to a time other than 1830, but it is impossible in my mind to make the other references fit with any other time.
2. Jacob 5:72-74 says that the servants in the second time "did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things".
3. Jacob 6:2 says that the second time is the Last Time.

I haven't seen a single substantive argument that refutes these 3 facts. None of these statements can be interpreted in any other way. To refute my logic, you have to say that when you covenant with the Lord through baptism that you are not becoming part of the House of Israel and becoming God's covenant people. You would have to say that Joseph didn't know where he was in history and he didn't know what he was talking about, or he was flat out lying. And you have to rework the allegory of the Olive tree and 2 Ne 25 to another time period.

Any interpretations of scripture could contradict Jacob 5:72-74, but your interpretation of D&C 101 (for example) cannot be more clear and hold more weight than Jacob 5:72-74.

The end is very near, and there isn't time to wait for another restoration. The time is now. Please ponder what I've said, please pray.

If there is to be a discussion on what you address, we must discern true sources from false sources. Section 137 was not in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1876, section 101 was in that sacred volume when Joseph was alive.
As far as Jacob 5, I would believe that Jesus has been down here laboring with other Heavenly Servants since the time of Joseph. Who is it that has seen Jesus personally laboring in this vineyard? Why do we expect the other servants He called, are the men who led the Church? It is my expectation that the servants He called are not who you think they are. As evidence, we have the "Not Good," like Brigham Young stealing another man's wife, and taking her to Nauvoo. She left her 6 children behind. We have to look at the realities of what the Church has been. God is a God of truth, and He has said that the truth will be made known, like in Doctrine and Covenants 1 or Isaiah 1.

More distraction, look here, don't look here tactics.

D&C 137 came from the JS, “Sketch Book for the use of Joseph Smith, jr.,” Journal, Sept. 1835–Apr. 1836 and it was written by Warren Parrish just as several other revelations were.

It's interesting to see the actual page because "the second time" was added afterwards by Parrish in a different ink color, meaning he was probably told to include those words after reading it back to Joseph Smith. Nobody else would care to add that in randomly. (I tried to upload the image but it keeps failing).

Here is the link for the relevant page. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... 5-1836/137

Primary Outcast, how familiar are you with the records kept after Joseph and Hyrum were killed?

The reason that I ask, is that there are many, many journal entries, where men, including Brigham Young, Warren Parrish, and many others, gathered together, day after day, to "edit" Joseph Smith's journals and other written records. Most of 1845 was spent, installing the "new order" of things into the records Joseph had authorized. So, whenever you see an edit in Joseph's journals, you should be looking at it with a critical eye.

In this case, we have an edit "the second time." Do we have any other contemporary records indicating Joseph Smith said that? We do not. Neither is Joseph's time identified as the second time in scripture. So, I would disregard that edit.

[Primary Outcast]

I made a YouTube video today explaining the sequencing of restorations according to Jacob 5