Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Teancum1
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Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Teancum1 »

2 Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

This has been on my mind quite a lot of late. What are the precepts of men I have been taught and accepted that cause me to err? I do not want to be led astray and do not want to lead any family or friends astray. But how am I to untangle these precepts and get rid of them?

What precepts of men have crept into the doctrines of the restoration? How can I identify them, as I freely admit that for years my cognitive dissonance has clouded my understanding.

Godislove
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Godislove »

Teancum1 wrote: March 25th, 2023, 9:04 am 2 Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

This has been on my mind quite a lot of late. What are the precepts of men I have been taught and accepted that cause me to err? I do not want to be led astray and do not want to lead any family or friends astray. But how am I to untangle these precepts and get rid of them?

What precepts of men have crept into the doctrines of the restoration? How can I identify them, as I freely admit that for years my cognitive dissonance has clouded my understanding.
For starters I think one might be 'we should never judge.'

I think one way to identify the falsehoods is to become very familiar with what's written in the scriptures.

Godislove
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Godislove »

Teancum1 wrote: March 25th, 2023, 9:04 am 2 Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

This has been on my mind quite a lot of late. What are the precepts of men I have been taught and accepted that cause me to err? I do not want to be led astray and do not want to lead any family or friends astray. But how am I to untangle these precepts and get rid of them?

What precepts of men have crept into the doctrines of the restoration? How can I identify them, as I freely admit that for years my cognitive dissonance has clouded my understanding.
In light of the scripture you referenced I find it interesting how many people seemed to put down the direction other people received from the Holy Ghost not to get the jab and labeled them as 'tares' for not following the prophet.

Teancum1
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Teancum1 »

That a man (prophet or otherwise) cannot lead us astray seems to be a major one.

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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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“Trust me.”

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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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“Trust the experts.”

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“You can’t prove God exists.”

Godislove
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: March 25th, 2023, 10:06 am “Trust the experts.”
"Follow the science" "It's for the greater good"

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oneClimbs
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Teancum1 wrote: March 25th, 2023, 9:04 am 2 Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

This has been on my mind quite a lot of late. What are the precepts of men I have been taught and accepted that cause me to err? I do not want to be led astray and do not want to lead any family or friends astray. But how am I to untangle these precepts and get rid of them?

What precepts of men have crept into the doctrines of the restoration? How can I identify them, as I freely admit that for years my cognitive dissonance has clouded my understanding.
The 1828 Dictionary defines “precept” as: “In a general sense, any commandment or order intended as an authoritative rule of action; but applied particularly to commands respecting moral conduct. The ten commandments are so many precepts for the regulation of our moral conduct.”

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BigT
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Godislove wrote: March 25th, 2023, 9:38 am I think one way to identify the falsehoods is to become very familiar with what's written in the scriptures.
This. But if you've only listened to LDS Inc.'s version of the scriptures, you're still stuck in the precepts of men and traditions of the fathers.

I just looked and the first entry into my journal regarding being "awaken" was August 4, 2020, but I was a month or 2 into by then. Seems longer.

For me, I needed guides to see through my "programming" (teachings of man). I can't recall the steps of my journey now but I read a bunch of Rock Waterman's posts, the anonymous bishop, here on LDSFF, and at some point One Who is Watching. Reluctant Watchman has some good articles.

But I settled on Watcher. I looked up every scripture quoted (regardless of whether the text was copied into the post) and every reference, both in his posts as well as his book. At first I did it because I thought he was not being truthful. Most of the references can still be found, but some are gone. They can be found elsewhere, usually. Joseph in the Gap is good for a condensed version of Wacther's book. (I'm trying to get my wife to read it as she'd never make it though Watcher's book.)

After almost a year of intense study, when I read the scriptures, especially in the D&C, I feel I know what's being said and why. It's wonderful. Before when I read the D&C my cog dis would cause me to skip over the stuff I didn't understand, which was most.

And, of course, tell the Lord you want to know the truth, as much as He thinks you need. No more relying on the arm of flesh. Rely on the arm of God.

Teancum1
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Teancum1 »

BigT wrote: March 25th, 2023, 11:06 am
Godislove wrote: March 25th, 2023, 9:38 am I think one way to identify the falsehoods is to become very familiar with what's written in the scriptures.
This. But if you've only listened to LDS Inc.'s version of the scriptures, you're still stuck in the precepts of men and traditions of the fathers.

I just looked and the first entry into my journal regarding being "awaken" was August 4, 2020, but I was a month or 2 into by then. Seems longer.

For me, I needed guides to see through my "programming" (teachings of man). I can't recall the steps of my journey now but I read a bunch of Rock Waterman's posts, the anonymous bishop, here on LDSFF, and at some point One Who is Watching. Reluctant Watchman has some good articles.

But I settled on Watcher. I looked up every scripture quoted (regardless of whether the text was copied into the post) and every reference, both in his posts as well as his book. At first I did it because I thought he was not being truthful. Most of the references can still be found, but some are gone. They can be found elsewhere, usually. Joseph in the Gap is good for a condensed version of Wacther's book. (I'm trying to get my wife to read it as she'd never make it though Watcher's book.)

After almost a year of intense study, when I read the scriptures, especially in the D&C, I feel I know what's being said and why. It's wonderful. Before when I read the D&C my cog dis would cause me to skip over the stuff I didn't understand, which was most.

And, of course, tell the Lord you want to know the truth, as much as He thinks you need. No more relying on the arm of flesh. Rely on the arm of God.
Great post. This is where I wanted to go with the thread. What precepts have we (disaffected LDS and exLDS faith tradition) been taught over the pulpit and accepted.
1. Prophets cannot lead us astray.
2. The Melchizedek priesthood is on the earth in the LDS church.
3. Temple work/ endowment as we know it is from God.
4. The Book of Mormon is what Isaiah was writing about in Isaiah 29:11-12
5. Polygamy is the New and Everlasting Covenant
6. Blacks are the seed of Cain and should not have the priesthood.
7. The “covenant path” is the fulness of the gospel spoken of in the Book of Mormon.
8. We should work with the UN and other government agencies to “help “ mankind
9. Because the Book of Mormon is true then Joseph Smith was a Prophet. And because Joseph was a Prophet then the prophets/seers and revelators today are true Prophets of equal or greater importance than Joseph or Moses, etc.
10. Tithing is to be invested and fast offering and other offerings( members time and other resources) are to care for the poor.
11. The church must utilize the rich, powerful and well connected to get Gods work done on the earth.
12. The “weak things” spoken of in the scriptures are actually a group of prominent business men, lawyers , well known doctors and other wealthy and well educated elites who control vast wealth.
13. Correlation is vital to moving Gods work forward- individuals within wards and stakes couldn’t possibly receive inspiration to guide them how to administer the local church- we must do it the way SLC deems necessary.
14. The Gentiles in the Book of Mormon are NOT the LDS gentiles
15. The Lord wouldn’t allow His church to go astray.
16. The kingdom of God on the earth is the church.

So what other “precepts of men” have we embraced and never considered we were wrong?

Teancum1
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Teancum1 »

Another precept of men: The prophets, seers in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc are NOT the leadership of the church in our day.

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InfoWarrior82
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"We no longer need to literally gather to Zion."

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"Apostles no longer need to preach the gospel to the unbelievers. We have teenagers to do that for us."

"Apostles don't need to literally be a witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ".

"The words of Jesus Christ no longer need to be written down because we have everything and don't need any more"

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"We are amassing billions of dollars so that we can hand that over to Jesus Christ when He comes back"

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"We don't need a Urim and Thumimn in order to have the title 'seer' anymore"

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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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"The word of wisdom is now a commandment from the Lord in order to go to the temple/celestial kingdom"

silverado
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by silverado »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: March 26th, 2023, 8:57 am "The word of wisdom is now a commandment from the Lord in order to go to the temple/celestial kingdom"
Only certain parts of the Word of Wisdom have to be obeyed, other parts can be ignored.

"Some sins have to be confessed to your bishop before you can be forgiven for them."

Pahoran
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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I don't know if you call this a precept of men or just a misinterpretation of scripture. But recently, I did see in a conference talk that it seemed to teach that the meaning of the parable of the wheat and the tares is that the wheat are church members, and the tares are anyone outside of the church.

But the parable states that an enemy came by night and sowed the tares among the wheat. This seems to indicate that the tares are servants of Satan amongst the wheat (true disciples), who have an intentional mission to destroy the wheat. The wheat are the "children of the kingdom." The correct interpretation on this parable seems very important because if you think the tares are just people that are outside the church, those people are easy to identify and watch out for. However, it seems much more dangerous if the parable is actually saying that there are servants of Satan, who look like disciples of Christ within the church, and they are on a mission to destroy the true followers.

Pahoran
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Pahoran »

Emphasizing the wrong characteristic or principle at the wrong time. For example,

Instead of emphasizing standing for truth, righteousness, courage in the face of LGBT cultural onslaught, we emphasize kindness, acceptance, and tolerance.

Instead of emphasizing word of wisdom, free agency and general health principles during a pandemic we say that to show love we wear masks and get vaccinated, and follow the prophet.

Those are just a couple, but this technique is hard to deal with because of the appeals to some truth, which could confuse some people.

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Fred
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: March 25th, 2023, 10:06 am “You can’t prove God exists.”
It amazes me that some people think this whole thing is an accident. A fluke of nature. Like our having 2 eyes instead of seven. Or a thumb. I missed the part about how the fish grew legs after jumping on land, before it dies of no oxygen in it's gills. They think evolution happened for millions of years and then one day, just stopped.

It's a lot harder for me to think of no creator than a creator.

Pahoran
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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Reluctant Watchman wrote: March 25th, 2023, 10:06 am “Trust the experts.”
Along those lines. I think encouraging people to fully rely on anyone or any organization because of the person's/organization's position, education, credentials, popularity, talent, etc. is perhaps one of the best ways that Satan uses to deceive so many people in an efficient way.

BOMdotcom
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

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oneClimbs wrote: March 25th, 2023, 10:34 am

The 1828 Dictionary defines “precept” as: “In a general sense, any commandment or order intended as an authoritative rule of action; but applied particularly to commands respecting moral conduct. The ten commandments are so many precepts for the regulation of our moral conduct.”
Realizing that precept means “commandment” has been an extremely key in helping me recognize the precepts of men. They are the commandments of men. If God didn’t command it Himself, by his voice, it’s a precept of men. And if a true commandment of God came through a man, the Holy Ghost will ratify it.

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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Pahoran wrote: March 26th, 2023, 9:26 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: March 25th, 2023, 10:06 am “Trust the experts.”
Along those lines. I think encouraging people to fully rely on anyone or any organization because of the person's/organization's position, education, credentials, popularity, talent, etc. is perhaps one of the best ways that Satan uses to deceive so many people in an efficient way.
I think we can learn a great deal from people who have perfected their craft or are honest seekers of truth. BUT, a humble person should also say that they can ALWAYS be wrong. The whole pandemic put Satan's agenda on a global stage.

Teancum1
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Re: Precepts of men- help me identify them

Post by Teancum1 »

silverado wrote: March 26th, 2023, 2:09 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: March 26th, 2023, 8:57 am "The word of wisdom is now a commandment from the Lord in order to go to the temple/celestial kingdom"
Only certain parts of the Word of Wisdom have to be obeyed, other parts can be ignored.

"Some sins have to be confessed to your bishop before you can be forgiven for them."

It seems I’ve read that different “small p” prophets emphasized different elements within the WoW at different times in history. I know that wine is what the Savior drank and it seems to have some symbolic significance. Why have we ceased using wine? Was it due to the churches desire to get in good graces with the prohibition movement?

I know the large P Prophet Joseph drank mild barley drinks and this was not a sin. Why have we become so insistent on establishing our version of 613 commandments in our day?

I know the vast majority of members do not live the Word of Wisdom as they are significantly obese or overweight, consume loads of sugary caffeinated drinks, eat junk food and have a host of medical problems due to this. And yet, these same people fill the temples?

The Word of Wisdom is not a commandment and church leadership has turned it into one.

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