Church cooks the books...to appear more generous

[The Red Pill]

I wake up to an email from the church...gushing over it's generosity to the needy.

Screenshot_20230323_112123_Gmail.jpg (235.84 KiB) Viewed 543 times

BUT WAIT...as the widowsmitereport pointed out last year...this increased generosity was ACTUALLY an accounting trick...by newly classifying FAST OFFERINGS as humanitarian aid...which greatly boosted the perception of generosity.

Screenshot_20230323_112611_Brave.jpg (224.18 KiB) Viewed 543 times

I'm sure this "pat ourselves on the back" email of apparent generosity has nothing to do with the recent SEC fines and revelations of BILLIONS and BILLIONS of tithing slush funds at EPA....

These guys are FAKING generosity to make themselves look good...pathetic.

[InfoWarrior82]

Question 1:

Why would Jesus Christ's true church with legit prophets and apostles need to desperately do damage control regarding their own mistakes?

Question 2:

What did Jesus Christ say about seeking praise for charity?

[endlessQuestions]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

[Mindfields]

I'm sure they also count the amount of hours donated by members as part of the cash total.

6,300,000 hours x $25.00(Probably to low) per hour = $157,500,000.00

[The Red Pill]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

I'm not bashing their charity EQ...I'm bashing the DECEPTIVE reclassification of fast offerings over into the humanitarian aid column...to make it look like they are giving much more than they used to give...when they really are not.

Then bragging about the generosity...

I'm sure you understand the difference.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

Timing is everything.

Also, if they wanted to be fiscally honest/transparent, there are many ways to let the members know church expenditures w/o making a public spectacle out of it. Create a backend system for members that gives a fully transparent audit. I don't think that would be very difficult.

Then again... it gets a little complicated when you have to hide 13 shell companies along w/ the rest of the $$.

[Subcomandante]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

Considering the recent SEC bruhaha, I think this is the only logical choice.

It is even so in a marriage. You lie to your spouse and she finds out you lied to her (and trust me, she will ALWAYS find out), then to gain her trust back, you have to disclose absolutely EVERYTHING that you are doing.

The Church has been caught being dishonest by a government organization. I'm looking on different sites and there are MANY people now who are not wanting to pay tithes to the Church over this (and I understand them). The only way that the Church is going to assuage this is by being more open with their finances. Not only on the charities side but also on the different programs side...missionary work, scriptures printed, temples being built or land for chapels and temples being bought.

[endlessQuestions]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

I'm not bashing their charity EQ...I'm bashing the DECEPTIVE reclassification of fast offerings over into the humanitarian aid column...to make it look like they are giving much more than they used to give...when they really are not.

Then bragging about the generosity...

I'm sure you understand the difference.

Ah, I understand your position better.

Honestly, when finances and real estate and law are involved, my eyes kind of gloss over. Just not a world I care all that much about.

[endlessQuestions]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

Considering the recent SEC bruhaha, I think this is the only logical choice.

It is even so in a marriage. You lie to your spouse and she finds out you lied to her (and trust me, she will ALWAYS find out), then to gain her trust back, you have to disclose absolutely EVERYTHING that you are doing.

The Church has been caught being dishonest by a government organization. I'm looking on different sites and there are MANY people now who are not wanting to pay tithes to the Church over this (and I understand them). The only way that the Church is going to assuage this is by being more open with their finances. Not only on the charities side but also on the different programs side...missionary work, scriptures printed, temples being built or land for chapels and temples being bought.

Agreed.

It would be soothing to see some sign of repentance from those who are always calling us to repentance.

[endlessQuestions]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

Timing is everything.

Also, if they wanted to be fiscally honest/transparent, there are many ways to let the members know church expenditures w/o making a public spectacle out of it. Create a backend system for members that gives a fully transparent audit. I don't think that would be very difficult.

Then again... it gets a little complicated when you have to hide 13 shell companies along w/ the rest of the $$.

That’s an interesting proposal.

No way it would stay private, of course.

[Reluctant Watchman]

That’s an interesting proposal.

No way it would stay private, of course.

The point isn't to make it private, but it would accomplish a few things:

1) It gives the members that subtle hint of "we're in the club" and can access it whenever we want as opposed to reading it on another website.

2) They aren't making a public announcement of it which fulfills the desire to "not let your alms be seen before men", just if you want to check it out on the backend tools.

[Subcomandante]

That’s an interesting proposal.

No way it would stay private, of course.

The point isn't to make it private, but it would accomplish a few things:

1) It gives the members that subtle hint of "we're in the club" and can access it whenever we want as opposed to reading it on another website.

2) They aren't making a public announcement of it which fulfills the desire to "not let your alms be seen before men", just if you want to check it out on the backend tools.

This is actually a pretty cool idea.

Probably will need to use JAVA for this, or some other computing language that makes distinctions between public, private, and protected classes.

[Reluctant Watchman]

This is actually a pretty cool idea.

Probably will need to use JAVA for this, or some other computing language that makes distinctions between public, private, and protected classes.

Our family attended a Baptist church a while back. A financial disclosure was on the back of each bulletin. It wasn't super complicated but allowed the members to see what money was coming in, what the pastor made, and sizable expenditures.

[Lizzy60]

It’s 100% about deception. Just like with a spouse, the deception is harder to repair in many cases, than the offense that was hidden.

Ages ago, when our finances were very tight and I was scrimping on every household expense, my husband bought a new gadget, something he wanted but did not need. He hid the receipt, which I accidentally found, but not until he had lied to me about “winning” it as a work reward. It took a long time to build trust back again, and it had nothing to do with the toy or how much it cost.

Deception, lying, lack of trust. That’s why people are hesitant to pay tithing. It no longer feels like it is going to the Lord.

[InfoWarrior82]

I’ll admit, I feel for the Church one on this a bit.

They hide their assets, you bash them.

They talk about their charity, you bash them.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone give me a good, balanced approach to what should be disclosed and what should be hidden when it comes to the finances.

I personally lean towards full disclosure on all fronts, FWIW.

Considering the recent SEC bruhaha, I think this is the only logical choice.

It is even so in a marriage. You lie to your spouse and she finds out you lied to her (and trust me, she will ALWAYS find out), then to gain her trust back, you have to disclose absolutely EVERYTHING that you are doing.

The Church has been caught being dishonest by a government organization. I'm looking on different sites and there are MANY people now who are not wanting to pay tithes to the Church over this (and I understand them). The only way that the Church is going to assuage this is by being more open with their finances. Not only on the charities side but also on the different programs side...missionary work, scriptures printed, temples being built or land for chapels and temples being bought.

Haha, sub.... THIS was that attempt...

viewtopic.php?t=70341

[LDS Physician]

It’s 100% about deception.

Deception, lying, lack of trust. That’s why people are hesitant to pay tithing. It no longer feels like it is going to the Lord.

Was it ever?

[GeeR]

It would be soothing to see some sign of repentance from those who are always calling us to repentance.

This is called gaslighting!

[FreedomJess]

I just think full disclosure on everything the church spends money on should be accessible.

They tout how charitable they are, but live like such elitists… on the members’ donations.

I had no idea… and I’m sure 99% of members who are just trying to live their best lives also have no idea… that the church employs 9 full time employees whose only job is to be the handy men for the Q15 at their homes. Oh, and maybe a select few from the “lesser quorum” can have this perk. But I’m not sure what qualifies the lower levels for this kind of service… and my new friend wasn’t sure either.

I met a guy today who told me this is his job. A church employee. Full time, great retirement, great benefits… just got a 12% raise… he loves his job. Says he spends a lot of time in North Salt Lake/Bountiful bench where most of the GA’s live.. but he said a lot of them have 2nd homes in Heber Valley. So he does work there too. All paid for by the church. Their department is housed in the basement of the Relief Society Building downtown.

He was so happy that Elder Gong recently hosted their 9 man unit at a Jazz game. Elder Gong was so kind to serve them drinks. They took pictures with him.

Then he proceeded to tell me how nice the church workout facility is on the 7th floor. He works out there every morning. One of his benefits. And how Elder Stevenson.. who just sold his business for $998 million, paid for all the new equipment in this super nice gym.

Idk…. Sure seems like we are the peasants and they are the 1%…. I’d love to not have to pay for repairs on my house… or to have a nice guy come hang pictures in my parlor…or change the paint in my guest house… etc etc. (I don’t have a parlor or a guest house… but if I did, I’d want the pictures hung… and I have nothing against people that have these things.)

Time for the members to know the truth. For reals.

Side note: I have lost all interest in worldly “things”. I just want to learn and grow and be with the people I connect with most. It has been the best side effect of waking up. So just for the record, this post is not about my personal envy. But it is about the leaders of the church I once loved and their love of all things worldly.

[Robin Hood]

It’s 100% about deception. Just like with a spouse, the deception is harder to repair in many cases, than the offense that was hidden.

Ages ago, when our finances were very tight and I was scrimping on every household expense, my husband bought a new gadget, something he wanted but did not need. He hid the receipt, which I accidentally found, but not until he had lied to me about “winning” it as a work reward. It took a long time to build trust back again, and it had nothing to do with the toy or how much it cost.

Deception, lying, lack of trust. That’s why people are hesitant to pay tithing. It no longer feels like it is going to the Lord.

The most important aspect of this story is: what was the gadget?

[The Red Pill]

I just think full disclosure on everything the church spends money on should be accessible.

They tout how charitable they are, but live like such elitists… on the members’ donations.

I had no idea… and I’m sure 99% of members who are just trying to live their best lives also have no idea… that the church employs 9 full time employees whose only job is to be the handy men for the Q15 at their homes. Oh, and maybe a select few from the “lesser quorum” can have this perk. But I’m not sure what qualifies the lower levels for this kind of service… and my new friend wasn’t sure either.

I met a guy today who told me this is his job. A church employee. Full time, great retirement, great benefits… just got a 12% raise… he loves his job. Says he spends a lot of time in North Salt Lake/Bountiful bench where most of the GA’s live.. but he said a lot of them have 2nd homes in Heber Valley. So he does work there too. All paid for by the church. Their department is housed in the basement of the Relief Society Building downtown.

He was so happy that Elder Gong recently hosted their 9 man unit at a Jazz game. Elder Gong was so kind to serve them drinks. They took pictures with him.

Then he proceeded to tell me how nice the church workout facility is on the 7th floor. He works out there every morning. One of his benefits. And how Elder Stevenson.. who just sold his business for $998 million, paid for all the new equipment in this super nice gym.

Idk…. Sure seems like we are the peasants and they are the 1%…. I’d love to not have to pay for repairs on my house… or to have a nice guy come hang pictures in my parlor…or change the paint in my guest house… etc etc. (I don’t have a parlor or a guest house… but if I did, I’d want the pictures hung… and I have nothing against people that have these things.)

Time for the members to know the truth. For reals.

Side note: I have lost all interest in worldly “things”. I just want to learn and grow and be with the people I connect with most. It has been the best side effect of waking up. So just for the record, this post is not about my personal envy. But it is about the leaders of the church I once loved and their love of all things worldly.

When you think about it, not much has changed. Brigham was building mansions for himself and his concubines...Brigham was the first millionaire west of the Mississippi...lived on tithing funds, but didn't pay it himself...while the average member was in a small log cabin...paying for it all.

ANYONE on the outside looking in...would call it a racket. Cognitive dissonance keeps the TBM's from seeing it.

[sevenator]

And I thought the matter was closed...

[endlessQuestions]

I just think full disclosure on everything the church spends money on should be accessible.

They tout how charitable they are, but live like such elitists… on the members’ donations.

I had no idea… and I’m sure 99% of members who are just trying to live their best lives also have no idea… that the church employs 9 full time employees whose only job is to be the handy men for the Q15 at their homes. Oh, and maybe a select few from the “lesser quorum” can have this perk. But I’m not sure what qualifies the lower levels for this kind of service… and my new friend wasn’t sure either.

I met a guy today who told me this is his job. A church employee. Full time, great retirement, great benefits… just got a 12% raise… he loves his job. Says he spends a lot of time in North Salt Lake/Bountiful bench where most of the GA’s live.. but he said a lot of them have 2nd homes in Heber Valley. So he does work there too. All paid for by the church. Their department is housed in the basement of the Relief Society Building downtown.

He was so happy that Elder Gong recently hosted their 9 man unit at a Jazz game. Elder Gong was so kind to serve them drinks. They took pictures with him.

Then he proceeded to tell me how nice the church workout facility is on the 7th floor. He works out there every morning. One of his benefits. And how Elder Stevenson.. who just sold his business for $998 million, paid for all the new equipment in this super nice gym.

Idk…. Sure seems like we are the peasants and they are the 1%…. I’d love to not have to pay for repairs on my house… or to have a nice guy come hang pictures in my parlor…or change the paint in my guest house… etc etc. (I don’t have a parlor or a guest house… but if I did, I’d want the pictures hung… and I have nothing against people that have these things.)

Time for the members to know the truth. For reals.

Side note: I have lost all interest in worldly “things”. I just want to learn and grow and be with the people I connect with most. It has been the best side effect of waking up. So just for the record, this post is not about my personal envy. But it is about the leaders of the church I once loved and their love of all things worldly.

When you think about it, not much has changed. Brigham was building mansions for himself and his concubines...Brigham was the first millionaire west of the Mississippi...lived on tithing funds, but didn't pay it himself...while the average member was in a small log cabin...paying for it all.

ANYONE on the outside looking in...would call it a racket. Cognitive dissonance keeps the TBM's from seeing it.

I prefer the term “cultural conditioning”.

People seem to understand exactly what it means and have little resistance to it.

[HereWeGo]

I met a guy today who told me this is his job. A church employee. Full time, great retirement, great benefits… just got a 12% raise… he loves his job. Says he spends a lot of time in North Salt Lake/Bountiful bench where most of the GA’s live.. but he said a lot of them have 2nd homes in Heber Valley. So he does work there too. All paid for by the church. Their department is housed in the basement of the Relief Society Building downtown.

I can confirm this. My friends husband must be one of these 9. The only difference is that he barely makes enough money for the family to get by. I think that changed with the raise. In the real world, there is usually a pay difference depending on your skill set--Electrician, plumber, carpentry, etc. My friend was less skilled.

[HereWeGo]

And I thought the matter was closed...

The matter was closed on the SEC scandal, according to the church. This is about the church reporting all the good things they are doing with their money. They changed how they reported it and it went up $700 million per year.

[TwochurchesOnly]

I just think full disclosure on everything the church spends money on should be accessible.

They tout how charitable they are, but live like such elitists… on the members’ donations.

I had no idea… and I’m sure 99% of members who are just trying to live their best lives also have no idea… that the church employs 9 full time employees whose only job is to be the handy men for the Q15 at their homes. Oh, and maybe a select few from the “lesser quorum” can have this perk. But I’m not sure what qualifies the lower levels for this kind of service… and my new friend wasn’t sure either.

I met a guy today who told me this is his job. A church employee. Full time, great retirement, great benefits… just got a 12% raise… he loves his job. Says he spends a lot of time in North Salt Lake/Bountiful bench where most of the GA’s live.. but he said a lot of them have 2nd homes in Heber Valley. So he does work there too. All paid for by the church. Their department is housed in the basement of the Relief Society Building downtown.

He was so happy that Elder Gong recently hosted their 9 man unit at a Jazz game. Elder Gong was so kind to serve them drinks. They took pictures with him.

Then he proceeded to tell me how nice the church workout facility is on the 7th floor. He works out there every morning. One of his benefits. And how Elder Stevenson.. who just sold his business for $998 million, paid for all the new equipment in this super nice gym.

Idk…. Sure seems like we are the peasants and they are the 1%…. I’d love to not have to pay for repairs on my house… or to have a nice guy come hang pictures in my parlor…or change the paint in my guest house… etc etc. (I don’t have a parlor or a guest house… but if I did, I’d want the pictures hung… and I have nothing against people that have these things.)

Time for the members to know the truth. For reals.

Side note: I have lost all interest in worldly “things”. I just want to learn and grow and be with the people I connect with most. It has been the best side effect of waking up. So just for the record, this post is not about my personal envy. But it is about the leaders of the church I once loved and their love of all things worldly.

Stevenson could "donate " gym equipment for an attraction at the new catholic mall - you know the proprietors of the slc enterprise are gonna want a piece of that action, to promote their fancy visitor center and unholy house - They, too, will need diversified income streams since flushing billions in unholy investments ( sorry for mixing threads- can't help myself)