6 transgender youth... In one ward

[TheDuke]

In my last ward (Midvale) there was a boy who came to church in a dress every Sunday. You could clearly see the father was in a a deep depression...while the mom seemed peachy as ish

I felt for the man. Our state gives all the power to the mother. I try not to judge the guy because no way in hell would I let my son do that, but Im blessed with beautiful wife that is sees eye to eye with me

Smh

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

[Dusty Wanderer]

"...would be the only thing that would get him to not have a testimony anymore"

I've heard these kind of statements, too. For many members a "testimony" is nothing more than agreement or "alignment" with the Church. Disaffection results in the abandonment of everything perceived as being associated with the Church.

Yeah.

It seems unpleasant or uncomfortable truths trump the Holy Ghost for most. It's mostly the spirit of the devil overcoming the person and trying to kill their faith in as much as the person allows.

I wouldn't use 'testimony' in these cases. It's all about a lack of previous testimony, or much more likely, a lack of faith.

For me, "testimony" (as often is in the past) is great, but faith (now) is more important; though true faith is belief in things which are know, but not seen--how are they known? by the power of the Holy Ghost.

You make a good point about the continued need for faith. We have a tendency in the Church to talk about a "testimony" as it were the destination. But we risk becoming slothful, resting on this portion of light as if it were a perfect knowledge, and eventually losing it. ("I know beyond a shadow of doubt")

Paul in Hebrews 6 talks to those have have "tasted" of the heavenly gift -- about their need to press on, beyond these waypoints of the assurances of our faith. Nephi says "must press forward" (2Nep. 31). "Testimony" experiences are great, but they can also become a tempting place to settle into when we should be continuing our ascent up the mountain.

11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

[Lemarque]

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

I was pointing out the context of his comment. Someone said that kids have been groomed by TV, social media, and the internet, and he responded, "And now. Church." Adding church to the list of places kids are being groomed.

I also don't see where my response says that he means non-LDS churches? I even used the term wards, which as far as I know is only used in LDS.

CHURCH, in the context it was used, was referring to a place where grooming can happen.

Not that the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is to groom kids and actively recommend transgenderism.

[Bronco73idi]

In my last ward (Midvale) there was a boy who came to church in a dress every Sunday. You could clearly see the father was in a a deep depression...while the mom seemed peachy as ish

I felt for the man. Our state gives all the power to the mother. I try not to judge the guy because no way in hell would I let my son do that, but Im blessed with beautiful wife that is sees eye to eye with me

Smh

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

[prew]

transgender-ism: lost faith in a God of Miracles. A God of Miracles is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The same moral laws of the past is the same for today and tomorrow. A God of Miracles doesn't make mistakes. (example: the statement 'god put me in the wrong body at birth' is false.) transgender-ism denies the power of God and that the power of God is here on earth. (See similar wording in Moroni 8, when talking about infant baptism. Substitute infant baptism with transgender.)

[spiritMan]

In my last ward (Midvale) there was a boy who came to church in a dress every Sunday. You could clearly see the father was in a a deep depression...while the mom seemed peachy as ish

I felt for the man. Our state gives all the power to the mother. I try not to judge the guy because no way in hell would I let my son do that, but Im blessed with beautiful wife that is sees eye to eye with me

Smh

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

When did people lose their marbles.

If a member in good standing was flying a flag with the Playboy bunny at their house, drove a truck that had the Playboy bunny on it, wore a Playboy bunny pin, tie, logo on their clothes at church... that IS advocacy for it, it is absolutely grooming bc the kids will look up the Playboy bunny, find a whole bunch of stuff about it and get GROOMED into accepting porn.

The same thing with the queer flag.

Sheesh... SMH.

[TheDuke]

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

I agree with what you just said. My point is this does not show the "church" "LDS church" is grooming people to be transgender........... grooming is way different than accepting. And by accepting, I mean accepting the person not the transgression and/or sin.

You can say there are things wrong, but this is not "grooming" by the church.

[TheDuke]

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

When did people lose their marbles.

If a member in good standing was flying a flag with the Playboy bunny at their house, drove a truck that had the Playboy bunny on it, wore a Playboy bunny pin, tie, logo on their clothes at church... that IS advocacy for it, it is absolutely grooming bc the kids will look up the Playboy bunny, find a whole bunch of stuff about it and get GROOMED into accepting porn.

The same thing with the queer flag.

Sheesh... SMH.

BS, I worked for a farmer long ago that had those black mud flaps with the silvery playboy bunny symbol on them. We all drove that truck around. Not sure where he got them from, likely free with some tires.

But neither he, nor I, nor the other workers were promoting playboy. I will admit, I never saw a playboy tie pin (or do you mean tie clip, seems pins would have been pretty small)?

Perhaps if I wore a tie and if I went to church, I might wear one for effect, you know, to get those, like you, to jump all over me? Prolly not though.

[logonbump]

The youth have all been groomed by T V, Social Media and the internet.

And now.

Church.

Sir H

Please show some evidence of the church pushing, or actively recommending transgender! I mean the church not some random LDS person (or former). Doubt you will find it but if you do,, I'll read it. REMEMBER your stated was "groomed by Church" and the topic is "transgender".

The LDS church doesn't have to push it actively. All it needs to do for this illness to take firm hold is to take a weak stance on the issue and social contagion will do the rest and the epidemic will spread.
Remember, we are to be the leaven in the loaf or the salt of the earth and when we are not; this happens. We, as in all of Christ's church: those that come unto him in repentance and in his name, in or out of this organization.

[spiritMan]

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

When did people lose their marbles.

If a member in good standing was flying a flag with the Playboy bunny at their house, drove a truck that had the Playboy bunny on it, wore a Playboy bunny pin, tie, logo on their clothes at church... that IS advocacy for it, it is absolutely grooming bc the kids will look up the Playboy bunny, find a whole bunch of stuff about it and get GROOMED into accepting porn.

The same thing with the queer flag.

Sheesh... SMH.

BS, I worked for a farmer long ago that had those black mud flaps with the silvery playboy bunny symbol on them. We all drove that truck around. Not sure where he got them from, likely free with some tires.

But neither he, nor I, nor the other workers were promoting playboy. I will admit, I never saw a playboy tie pin (or do you mean tie clip, seems pins would have been pretty small)?

Perhaps if I wore a tie and if I went to church, I might wear one for effect, you know, to get those, like you, to jump all over me? Prolly not though.

Oh come on. You know you are avoiding the issue.

[Bronco73idi]

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

I agree with what you just said. My point is this does not show the "church" "LDS church" is grooming people to be transgender........... grooming is way different than accepting. And by accepting, I mean accepting the person not the transgression and/or sin.

You can say there are things wrong, but this is not "grooming" by the church.

I see what you are saying.

Do you think that if we still did not let women speak in general conference like it was in Jospeh’s day and all the way up until 1908 (besides Lucy Smith in 1945 due to her sons being murdered) that we would have allowed a boy dressed as a girl or a girl dressed as a boy?

The worst part is we are shaming boys for something we let girls do and no one sees this as a real problem or hypocritical.

[JohnnyL]

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

That would definitely be ideal.

Reality check: let's see how it would work. He pushes, she divorces, he pays 1/2 in alimony and goes bankrupt, she gets the boy and can fully indulge herself with him...

Lose-lose situations are never fun, but some are more bearable in some ways than others?

Maybe he has received revelation to hang in there and do his best.

[JohnnyL]

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

When did people lose their marbles.

If a member in good standing was flying a flag with the Playboy bunny at their house, drove a truck that had the Playboy bunny on it, wore a Playboy bunny pin, tie, logo on their clothes at church... that IS advocacy for it, it is absolutely grooming bc the kids will look up the Playboy bunny, find a whole bunch of stuff about it and get GROOMED into accepting porn.

The same thing with the queer flag.

Sheesh... SMH.

Agreed, but... I don't see the Church doing that. "Weak" stances sometimes, yes, hopefully only for necessity's sake.

[Bronco73idi]

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

That would definitely be ideal.

Reality check: let's see how it would work. He pushes, she divorces, he pays 1/2 in alimony and goes bankrupt, she gets the boy and can fully indulge herself with him...

Lose-lose situations are never fun, but some are more bearable in some ways than others?

Maybe he has received revelation to hang in there and do his best.

You forgot, her bishop supports her decision because she said the lord has told her to get out of that abusive relationship.

When the lord said “ And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” it wasn’t about her because her situation is different and the bishop doesn’t really believe the lord’s words in the Bible because they are not in the handbook…..

Clown world

[DesertWonderer2]

I went to dinner last night with a friend of mine who lives in Riverton. We had a long talk about how insane the world is getting. He serves with the young men. In his ward there are 6 transgender youth, some as young as 11. Three of them are part of actively attending families.

We are both in our early 30's and have a hard time believing that we've gone from Family: Proclamation (prop 8 in 2008) to active members transitioning their young kids in 15 years.

As a side note he said that for him, changing marriage to include gays would be the only thing that would get him to not have a testimony anymore. So now I'm praying for the church to announce that sooner than later.

A big wake up call like that is needed.

This is so unbelievably sad.

This is a big piece of it all: https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-03-22- ... utism.html

[JohnnyL]

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

That would definitely be ideal.

Reality check: let's see how it would work. He pushes, she divorces, he pays 1/2 in alimony and goes bankrupt, she gets the boy and can fully indulge herself with him...

Lose-lose situations are never fun, but some are more bearable in some ways than others?

Maybe he has received revelation to hang in there and do his best.

You forgot, her bishop supports her decision because she said the lord has told her to get out of that abusive relationship.

When the lord said “ And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” it wasn’t about her because her situation is different and the bishop doesn’t really believe the lord’s words in the Bible because they are not in the handbook…..

Clown world

Saw a prophylactic spouse abuse divorce one time, too.

[Bronco73idi]

That would definitely be ideal.

Reality check: let's see how it would work. He pushes, she divorces, he pays 1/2 in alimony and goes bankrupt, she gets the boy and can fully indulge herself with him...

Lose-lose situations are never fun, but some are more bearable in some ways than others?

Maybe he has received revelation to hang in there and do his best.

You forgot, her bishop supports her decision because she said the lord has told her to get out of that abusive relationship.

When the lord said “ And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” it wasn’t about her because her situation is different and the bishop doesn’t really believe the lord’s words in the Bible because they are not in the handbook…..

Clown world

Saw a prophylactic spouse abuse divorce one time, too.

I’m sure you did. If this sister didn’t pluck out her eye (get a divorce) in this instance, she would have gone to hell with her abusive spouse, or become an angel of her Heavenly Father, right? Maybe now she can find a righteous man, doubt it. No one knows the everlasting covenant.

Let’s go back to nightlight’s example. The husband needs to say, yea yea or nay nay. If he says nothing he then is burying his talent and we know what happens to the ones who know what is right and bury it. The obvious answer is nay. If the wife leaves, let Hagar leave. He can marry another who will want to raise righteous seed.

[David13]

Yeah, I think it is contagious.
dc

[latterdayloco]

If that were to happen I would take my wife back to the Spanish Branch/Ward where most the people hate this stuff as much as I do and God bless them for it.

I've only heard about the pro-lgbtqrstpwhatever bishop in Riverton because I have been a long time listener to KTALK radio. What an abomination this man has helped create as well as the people who supported and sustained him.

We started going to a Spanish ward a year ago for this exact same reason.

[endlessQuestions]

C767BD61-F398-4A4C-9B8E-D5F7F7C375F8.jpeg (656.9 KiB) Viewed 197 times

[anonymous91]

The youth have all been groomed by T V, Social Media and the internet.

And now.

Church.

Sir H

Please show some evidence of the church pushing, or actively recommending transgender! I mean the church not some random LDS person (or former). Doubt you will find it but if you do,, I'll read it. REMEMBER your stated was "groomed by Church" and the topic is "transgender".

For what it's worth they crossed the Rubicon when they shifted their position on all things LGBT+. As an organization, they are leaning over backward to accommodate the LGBT+ community along with all of the baggage that comes with it. Either the leaders are complete idiots, or they know exactly who they are getting into bed with.

I'm from a generation that likes to give people the benefit of the doubt and when someone gives you their word you hold them to it. Unfortunately, the world has dramatically shifted and it is few and far between that have good intentions. So I get where you are coming from, and I have been giving the benefit of the doubt to our leaders for a long time too. Personally, for me it's similar to supporting a bad habit, you keep rationalizing your actions (or in this case someone else's actions).

For me, there have been too many red flags popping up every time I turn around, that go way beyond being clueless idiots. I am strongly suspecting that we (collectively) are being played like a fiddle. I for one am seeing the "fruits" of false prophets, and choose to put my faith in the Rock of Christ, rather than in an organization that seems hell-bent on having me build my house on a sandy foundation, rationalizing it all along the way.

[anonymous91]

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Isaiah 3:12, 2 Nephi 13:12 comes to mind.

this is LDS ff, if you hadn't noticed? church, at church, the church all mean LDS. Read the his posts on this thread, he wasn't talking Catholics? Come on man!

Even then, hanging a flag isn't "grooming".

Also, CHURCH does not mean a church member. Read ANY thread on here and you will see it means the LDS leaders of the LDS church.

Not even sure where you came up with that defense?

What are you talking about?

The poor dad is ashamed that his son wears a dress to church. The dad sounds mentally oppressed to me….. Nightlight then said that the mom looks happy about it, sounds like the woman is leading the man in error, again fulfilling the scripture Isaiah 3:12.

The ashamed father needs to lead his family like a man, a patriarch, a son of god!

That, or take a permanent vacation across the border with his son.

[Lemarque]

"...would be the only thing that would get him to not have a testimony anymore"

I've heard these kind of statements, too. For many members a "testimony" is nothing more than agreement or "alignment" with the Church. Disaffection results in the abandonment of everything perceived as being associated with the Church.

The question I have with the OP's situation in the Church is how much is complicity vs attempted mitigation. Would it be growing within the Church if they had held a firmer position on it? ("If the Church is fine with it, then it must be okay.")

Or would there just be more people leaving as parent(s) encourage their children to fall into the jaws of Baal? (If this, I can see why the Church is taking some of its positions on the issue; though, I whole-heartedly disagree and think there may be more self-preservation and some vanity in it, rather than any hope that accommodation/acceptance will result in reversal/abolishment.)

The way my friend explained it is that essentially the only thing that the church exclusively offers is a promise of eternal families, and the sealing ordinance to enforce it. Plenty of other churches teach of Christ, but the eternal family has been the core 'plain and precious' truth that no one else offers an ordinance for.

If the church allows gay marriage, then the only legitimate offering the church isn't there anymore. A family is a man and a woman with potential for eternal increase. If you change that, for him at least, the church is saying the family isn't really anything concrete. Which removes the core of church doctrine.

[spiritMan]

Recently seen:
-------------------------
Hi all! I'm a gay missionary and just wanted to share some thoughts on patience I've had recently. Without going into detail, I've been having my patience somewhat tested the past month.
Hebrews 12:1 says, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
What does it mean to "run with patience?"
To answer that, I should start by saying that I'm no stranger to patience. Growing up gay in the church, much of what I'm advised to do by the church is to essentially "wait for my life to be over" before receiving the necessary-for-exaltation blessings of an eternal temple marriage. Throughout my childhood, I have been expecting to live the rest of my life playing this "waiting game." I have become accustomed to delayed gratification. (In fact, indefinite "un-gratification" has been my companion, as there has been no revelation given to modern prophets on how attraction works after this life.) The only hope offered by church leaders is that "it will all work out in the end." How in the world was I to "run" with that?
Well, part of my answer is found in Hebrews 12:1. We are advised to "lay aside every weight." Makes sense. Extra weight makes it hard to run. If we just set it down, we can run faster and longer. And what kind of weight are we asked to lay aside? "The sin which doth so easily beset us." Now, if you asked me five years ago what the sin was that I needed to lay aside, I would say it was my homosexuality. Surely that was a weight that was dragging me down.
Since then, though, I learned that the sin I needed to lay aside was not this attraction, this integral part of me. It was actually my thoughts about that integral part of me. You see, I thought I needed to take a scalpel (or, rather, a butcher's knife) and dismember the so-called-tumor that I thought made me slow, ill, and heavy in this run of life. Over time, through incredibly heart-felt prayer and fasting, as well as with the shoulders of mortal angels around me to lean on, I have learned that my attraction is not a sin. The strongest confirmation of love from my Heavenly Father I have ever felt is that He made me the way I am for a purpose. That my attraction is divinely given. And in that realization, I identified the real sin, the real weight, that was acting as a drogue on my run of patience. The real sin, for me, was self-criticism. Self-hatred. The sin was that I thought I could call one of God's creations—me—a mistake. An accident. That is sinful. That is what was weighing me down.
Once I learned to use Christ's atonement to repent of that sin, I was able to set that weight aside and run faster and longer.
Though my race of life has changed significantly in the last few years, I still find myself needing to run other races with patience. Like this race here in my area. After I identified what sins—true sins, not fake—were weighing me down, I have been able to bear this journey longer and easier. I know that as we seek to make ourselves better, to set aside those unnecessary weights, we can develop patience. As we begin doing so, Christ will recognize our efforts and provide much-needed help to us.
For anyone who is struggling with patience in their own race right now, please remember that anything that takes away from your divine worth is not of God, and is a weight, even a sin, that you need to set aside. Once you do, I know that you will more fully feel God's love and the incredible peace that He has in store for you.
--------------------------

Ah so I see now. Sexual desire for the same-sex is beautiful, wonderful, divine. I wonder when we will say sexual desire for little children is beautiful, wonderful, divine.

[spiritMan]

And now.

Church.

Sir H

Please show some evidence of the church pushing, or actively recommending transgender! I mean the church not some random LDS person (or former). Doubt you will find it but if you do,, I'll read it. REMEMBER your stated was "groomed by Church" and the topic is "transgender".

For what it's worth they crossed the Rubicon when they shifted their position on all things LGBT+. As an organization, they are leaning over backward to accommodate the LGBT+ community along with all of the baggage that comes with it. Either the leaders are complete idiots, or they know exactly who they are getting into bed with.

I'm from a generation that likes to give people the benefit of the doubt and when someone gives you their word you hold them to it. Unfortunately, the world has dramatically shifted and it is few and far between that have good intentions. So I get where you are coming from, and I have been giving the benefit of the doubt to our leaders for a long time too. Personally, for me it's similar to supporting a bad habit, you keep rationalizing your actions (or in this case someone else's actions).

For me, there have been too many red flags popping up every time I turn around, that go way beyond being clueless idiots. I am strongly suspecting that we (collectively) are being played like a fiddle. I for one am seeing the "fruits" of false prophets, and choose to put my faith in the Rock of Christ, rather than in an organization that seems hell-bent on having me build my house on a sandy foundation, rationalizing it all along the way.

Find out what an organizations first principles are and you'll find out what matters and what can get thrown out.

LDS Church's first principles is money.