Inspired Version?

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Is the Joseph Smith translation the pure word of God?

Poll ended at March 21st, 2023, 3:39 pm

1) Joseph Smith and Sidney Ridgon were commanded of God to translate the King James Bible.
19
73%
2) The Joseph Smith translation has some truth in it, but has introduced false doctrines as well.
2
8%
3) The Inspired Version is a work of men, and not of God.
1
4%
4) Satan used things besides the KJV Bible and Book of Mormon to deceive and cause turmoil and false doctrines to thrive.
1
4%
5) Other
3
12%
 
Total votes: 26
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CaptainM
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Inspired Version?

Post by CaptainM »

The following is a poll seeking votes and opinions.

Here are a few things to consider:

1) 23 The Book which thou beholdest, is a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord which he hath made unto the House of Israel; and it also containeth many of the prophecies of the Holy Prophets; and it is a record like unto the engravings which are upon the plates of brass, save there are not so many:  nevertheless, they contain the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the House of Israel; wherefore, they are of great worth unto the Gentiles. (1 Nephi 13).

2) 35 For, behold, saith the Lamb: I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious; and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, by the gift and power of the Lamb.
36 And in them shall be written my gospel, saith the Lamb, and my rock and my salvation.
37 And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be. (1Nephi 13)


3) 12 Wherefore, the fruit of my loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3)

4) 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (KJV Revelation 22).


The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John. God cannot lie.

The Book of Mormon was to be the only record according to God to go hand-in-hand with the KJV Bible which was what the gentiles brought across the great waters. Beginning at or shortly after 6 April 1830 the two records were diluted by adding other records, precepts of men, and doctrines to the fulness of the gospel. It is proven that the only way salt loses its savor is to pollute it with impurities.

The descendants of Lehi hardly know anything of the records of their fathers, and there are certainly false doctrines and no peace among them at present.

If you voted "Other", please elaborate.
Last edited by CaptainM on March 14th, 2023, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Niemand »

Other: I don't think it was thorough enough. Matthew is well covered. Other books less so.

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BuriedTartaria
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Posts: 1959

Re: Inspired Version?

Post by BuriedTartaria »

JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John. God cannot lie.
Interesting point. Do we have an original version of Revelation to know for sure that Joseph's additions weren't simply expounding or restoring points or phrasing or ideas from Revelation that had been lost to time?

From what I understand. some of the JST is Joseph, as a prophet, providing commentary on Biblical passages. I understand the Lord's statement and point on not taking away or adding to Revelation but certainly if God had a prophet, let's say on the earth today, that prophet probably could expound and elaborate on passages in Revelation. Serving the role of being a teacher and helping people understand scripture. If Joseph wasn't restoring statements, or words, or phrases lost to time in Revelation then I suppose he was going too far adding JST passages to Revelation but if Joseph was a prophet (and I believe he was) I do think he probably had commentary to offer on Revelation that was meaningful and otherworldly.


JRM, I take it your view of the restoration is that Joseph was a prophet, was used by the Lord to translate the Book of Mormon but he became a fallen prophet and the restoration languished. I respect your take. I definitely agree the restoration failed and the death of both Joseph AND the successor (Hyrum, with Hyrum dying first) with so much still left to be done was symbolic of it failing.

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CaptainM
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by CaptainM »

BuriedTartaria wrote: March 15th, 2023, 6:28 am
JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John. God cannot lie.
JRM, I take it your view of the restoration is that Joseph was a prophet, was used by the Lord to translate the Book of Mormon but he became a fallen prophet and the restoration languished. I respect your take. I definitely agree the restoration failed and the death of both Joseph AND the successor (Hyrum, with Hyrum dying first) with so much still left to be done was symbolic of it failing.
Thank you for the time you've taken to weigh in on the post. Yes, your assessment is correct on my views. It hurts to experience the disappointment of being -in my view- deceived by someone who I put in the past next to the Savior in importance. However, the Lord is able to do His own work, and can use a situation to the best. I hope the very best for Joseph. I am not equipped to be a judge of souls, but I do want to help my fellow-man. That help may require taking a bold stand about things that others don't want to hear. I can' say I have developed charity to the level that the Lord would have me have, but that is my goal. I honestly want to help others.

I believe the Lord when He said that the only gift Joseph would be given was the translation of the Book of Mormon. After it was completed, and the plates and interpreters were returned, the church was intended to be as it was in America after Christ's ministry to the Nephites. I believe that satan immediately began his work around 6 April 1830. Once a church is organized according to the laws of a government, it comes under the power of the adversary in my opinion.

I would also like to add that showing the lack of response to the poll indicates to me that participants aren't sure how to vote, and maybe aren't confident or have a testimony of the JST.

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Shawn Henry
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Posts: 4831

Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Shawn Henry »

JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John.
We don't know that. The BoM tells us that many plain and precious things were removed from the Bible and that obviously includes John's book. We received the Bible in an already adulterated state, despite it still retaining the fulness of the gospel.

We were naturally expecting a correct translation to come, but the saint's indifference towards the work and their unwillingness to pay for its publishing hindered that work and postponed it to the 3rd Watch when the Marvelous Work and a Wonder comes upon us.

"...and he has a gift to translate the book and I have commanded him that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift." — Book of Commandments 4:2

The Lord says he declares the end from the beginning and right here we have fulfillment of the Lord's words and Joseph himself never attempted to canonize the new translation or the Pearl of Great Price, nor do they have witnesses for them as the BoM does. He did indeed pretend to no other gift of translation.

The D&C, however, can't be excluded on the same grounds because it is not a translation, rather it is direct revelation, and the Lord gave revelation instructing the church who had stewardship (witnesses) over the work, and he commanded them to oversee its publication.

Interestingly, the Joseph the Seer prophecy in 2 Ne 3 still has to come to fruition. The two books have to go forth to the world in one volume. This is a future work.

If one reads that prophecy carefully, the fruit of the loins of Judah will give us a second translation of the Bible and the fruit of the loins of Joseph will give us a second translation of the BoM. These are the two books that will go to the world as one.

This volume of scripture will rock the world and it will confound all false doctrines. "Hold on to your butts"-Samuel L. Jackson

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CaptainM
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Location: "A chosen land, and the land of liberty"

Re: Inspired Version?

Post by CaptainM »

Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:17 am
JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John.
We don't know that. The BoM tells us that many plain and precious things were removed from the Bible and that obviously includes John's book. We received the Bible in an already adulterated state, despite it still retaining the fulness of the gospel.

We were naturally expecting a correct translation to come, but the saint's indifference towards the work and their unwillingness to pay for its publishing hindered that work and postponed it to the 3rd Watch when the Marvelous Work and a Wonder comes upon us.

"...and he has a gift to translate the book and I have commanded him that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift." — Book of Commandments 4:2

The Lord says he declares the end from the beginning and right here we have fulfillment of the Lord's words and Joseph himself never attempted to canonize the new translation or the Pearl of Great Price, nor do they have witnesses for them as the BoM does. He did indeed pretend to no other gift of translation.

The D&C, however, can't be excluded on the same grounds because it is not a translation, rather it is direct revelation, and the Lord gave revelation instructing the church who had stewardship (witnesses) over the work, and he commanded them to oversee its publication.

Interestingly, the Joseph the Seer prophecy in 2 Ne 3 still has to come to fruition. The two books have to go forth to the world in one volume. This is a future work.

If one reads that prophecy carefully, the fruit of the loins of Judah will give us a second translation of the Bible and the fruit of the loins of Joseph will give us a second translation of the BoM. These are the two books that will go to the world as one.

This volume of scripture will rock the world and it will confound all false doctrines. "Hold on to your butts"-Samuel L. Jackson
For Joseph's sake, I hope you're right. I am doubtful of all the narratives. For now I will hold fast to the Book of Mormon.

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Shawn Henry
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Posts: 4831

Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Shawn Henry »

JRM wrote: March 16th, 2023, 12:16 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: March 16th, 2023, 11:17 am
JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John.
We don't know that. The BoM tells us that many plain and precious things were removed from the Bible and that obviously includes John's book. We received the Bible in an already adulterated state, despite it still retaining the fulness of the gospel.

We were naturally expecting a correct translation to come, but the saint's indifference towards the work and their unwillingness to pay for its publishing hindered that work and postponed it to the 3rd Watch when the Marvelous Work and a Wonder comes upon us.

"...and he has a gift to translate the book and I have commanded him that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift." — Book of Commandments 4:2

The Lord says he declares the end from the beginning and right here we have fulfillment of the Lord's words and Joseph himself never attempted to canonize the new translation or the Pearl of Great Price, nor do they have witnesses for them as the BoM does. He did indeed pretend to no other gift of translation.

The D&C, however, can't be excluded on the same grounds because it is not a translation, rather it is direct revelation, and the Lord gave revelation instructing the church who had stewardship (witnesses) over the work, and he commanded them to oversee its publication.

Interestingly, the Joseph the Seer prophecy in 2 Ne 3 still has to come to fruition. The two books have to go forth to the world in one volume. This is a future work.

If one reads that prophecy carefully, the fruit of the loins of Judah will give us a second translation of the Bible and the fruit of the loins of Joseph will give us a second translation of the BoM. These are the two books that will go to the world as one.

This volume of scripture will rock the world and it will confound all false doctrines. "Hold on to your butts"-Samuel L. Jackson
For Joseph's sake, I hope you're right. I am doubtful of all the narratives. For now I will hold fast to the Book of Mormon.
We all, unfortunately, never learned growing up to make the Lord's narrative in scripture our only narrative. We are all having to learn to do this. It's more labor intensive than a 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Silver Pie »

Other. Joseph went through the Bible and fixed a lot that he saw there. I'd always been told he was intending to go through it again, but got killed before he did it.

Also, the Church with the copyright to the Inspired Version made their own changes to the text (I don't have the sources; sorry).

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Niemand
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Niemand »

Silver Pie wrote: March 16th, 2023, 8:51 pm Other. Joseph went through the Bible and fixed a lot that he saw there. I'd always been told he was intending to go through it again, but got killed before he did it.

Also, the Church with the copyright to the Inspired Version made their own changes to the text (I don't have the sources; sorry).
As I say above, I think it is very thorough in some books but not others. A lot of the Old Testament has little or nothing in the way of notes/alterations.

Yes, there have been claims RLDS/CoC made changes.

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BuriedTartaria
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Posts: 1959

Re: Inspired Version?

Post by BuriedTartaria »

JRM wrote: March 15th, 2023, 7:12 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: March 15th, 2023, 6:28 am
JRM wrote: March 14th, 2023, 3:39 pm The Joseph Smith translations has both taken away and added word from the Revelation of John. God cannot lie.
JRM, I take it your view of the restoration is that Joseph was a prophet, was used by the Lord to translate the Book of Mormon but he became a fallen prophet and the restoration languished. I respect your take. I definitely agree the restoration failed and the death of both Joseph AND the successor (Hyrum, with Hyrum dying first) with so much still left to be done was symbolic of it failing.
Thank you for the time you've taken to weigh in on the post. Yes, your assessment is correct on my views. It hurts to experience the disappointment of being -in my view- deceived by someone who I put in the past next to the Savior in importance. However, the Lord is able to do His own work, and can use a situation to the best. I hope the very best for Joseph. I am not equipped to be a judge of souls, but I do want to help my fellow-man. That help may require taking a bold stand about things that others don't want to hear. I can' say I have developed charity to the level that the Lord would have me have, but that is my goal. I honestly want to help others.

I believe the Lord when He said that the only gift Joseph would be given was the translation of the Book of Mormon. After it was completed, and the plates and interpreters were returned, the church was intended to be as it was in America after Christ's ministry to the Nephites. I believe that satan immediately began his work around 6 April 1830. Once a church is organized according to the laws of a government, it comes under the power of the adversary in my opinion.

I would also like to add that showing the lack of response to the poll indicates to me that participants aren't sure how to vote, and maybe aren't confident or have a testimony of the JST.
I once was very convinced that Joseph was a fallen prophet. I was bitter and hated Joseph for a while (but I eventually softened and decided to not hate him and just acknowledge he fell) and I adored McLellin, Whitmer, the Book of Mormon, and early Joseph Smith revelation warning of falling. I really felt David Whitmer's assessment of Joseph falling, the church failing and the Book of Mormon being a groundwork laid for a greater event for a later date was a beautiful and truthful account of what happened. Even though my views have shifted, I still find value in and like David Whitmer and McLellin


I don't want to sound like a shill or missionary for anyone. All I will say is what if someone brought forth words you believed to be inspired words, revelation and even words of prophesy? Brought forth words you believed came from the Lord? And what if they told a different story about Joseph? What if you rejected them multiple times and always went back because the words they offer and teach seem to be the voice of the shepherd and the situation around the words looks to rhyme with previous dispensations? I don't have an answer for every polygamous story linked to Joseph but the framing of the situation being that historians and secret combinations have linked to create an image and destroy the identity of a prophet, the prophet will be exonerated, the "experts" and the "authorities" on the topic will be proven wrong, and the mighty building of earthly wisdom on Joseph and the earthly wealth of the LDS church will come crashing down coupled with voices around this movement that I believe to be inspired. It's too much to ignore. I'm not closing the door on the fallen prophet theory, but I also have faith the monogamist-Joseph theory could be true


I agree with you that organizing into a church was a problem. The Israelites wanted a king despite the Lord knowing better and offering them another way. After being petitioned about it and rejecting what the Lord wanted for them, the Lord gave them kings and they were the worse off for it. That early church got what it wanted; a church, callings, titles, rank.

I feel the Book of Mormon should have been brought forth and immediately framed as a non-denominational Christian warning that grew into becoming an Americana oddity that found believers in all walks of Christianity rather than becoming a trophy for the LDS church to argue sole authority. I agree with you the focus on a church became something Satan was able to intercept and attack.

I really like what you say about the lack of posts and comments in this thread suggesting most people really don't know what to make of the JST. I agree. I think most of us don't know what to make of it. I would file myself under that as well

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Silver Pie
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Silver Pie »

Niemand wrote: March 17th, 2023, 3:53 am As I say above, I think it is very thorough in some books but not others. A lot of the Old Testament has little or nothing in the way of notes/alterations.

Yes, there have been claims RLDS/CoC made changes.
Yep.

CoC - I couldn't remember their name. I always remember RLDS, but know that they changed that a while back.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Inspired Version?

Post by Silver Pie »

BuriedTartaria wrote: March 17th, 2023, 7:45 pm I feel the Book of Mormon should have been brought forth and immediately framed as a non-denominational Christian warning that grew into becoming an Americana oddity that found believers in all walks of Christianity rather than becoming a trophy for the LDS church to argue sole authority.
That's exactly how I feel about the book, also.

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