The Davidic Servant is The Holy Ghost

[Alaris]

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord; and I will heal him.

If you look at the Hebrew of verse 19 ... Jehovah is the one who heals this "spirit" with whom He was wroth.

https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/57-19.htm

The Isaiah institute translation preserves the tetragrammaton: "Jehovah"

Verses 18-19 and go together:

Yet I have seen his conduct and I will heal him;
I will guide him and amply console him
and those who mourn for him,
who partakee of the fruit of the lips:
Peace, wellbeing, to those far off
and to those who are near,
says Jehovah who heals him.

The fruit of the lips are Jehovahs but delivered by the Angel of the Lord who is the Marred Servant healed by Jesus and who is the recipient of the Davidic Covenant. The Holy Ghost.

The fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant (1 Chronicles 17) prophesied:

Isaiah 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.


Compare this to the message to the sixth angel of the sixth church - that sixth promise of overcoming is the reward to all those seraphim who ascend from conditional servants to everlasting inheritors. That IS the Davidic Covenant. I will be his father. He shall be my son

Nathan is speaking here to David:

11 ¶ And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

Jehovah - who is the one who purchased the right of mercy by condescending as Jesus Christ - suffered shame and death and wore a crown of thorns to purchase the right for His heir to rule. The recipient of the covenant has the mercy of Jehovah as an essential element to securing his right to rule forever in the house of Israel.

[Alaris]

The Marred Servant and the Davidic Servant aren't necessarily the same people

Joseph Smith is probably the Marred Servant (he is also the One Mighty and Strong who brings forth the sealed portion)

??? is the Davidic Servant

People always try and shoehorn the many servants into one individual when this simply isn't the case. There are many last days servants

Be sure your motivations are seeking truth and not seeking retribution. Jesus says He will heal the marred servant in 3 Nephi 21. That never happened with Joseph.

Thanks for the link. I was able to get to the discourse by Joseph Smith given on the 10th of March, 1844, as recorded in the DHC 6:249-254, and also the Times and Seasons article about the Millennium printed on the 15th of February, 1842, included as part of vol. 3, no. 8, pp. 687–702.

Both references do mention the latter-day David who will be a king during the Millennium, but nothing else is added. The Times and Seasons says:

• "The immortal saints will be made kings and priests, and they shall reign with Christ; but is is not said that the mortal ones shall be made kings and priests, to hold authority with Christ like the immortal ones, while in a state of mortality; only they shall have a king, priests, and all other necessary officers, to administer all ordinances, and perform all necessary ceremonies. We mean a king that shall be chosen or proceed out of their midst" (p. 690, emphasis added).

These two quotes can only support the conclusion that in the millennium there will be a mortal descendant of David named David who will rule the righteous mortals.

That Joseph Smith is perhaps God the Third, the Testator, and his healing from being marred may be his resurrection and return to finish the strange act and marvelous work as an immortal being, does not unseat this mortal David or Davidic Servant.

That's hardly grounds for proving the Joseph Smith is the testator either. I used to believe this very thing years ago when I pondered what possibly Joseph could have meant by "would to God brethren I could tell you who I am" - yet the answer to that mystery lies in Zechariah 4, Revelation, and the Discourse on Abbaton - and the Testament of Levi. Oh and 1 Enoch. Seven holy ones ... who have already secured the fullness of the Priesthood and secured their unconditional inheritance are the seven candlesticks of Zechariah 4, the seven spirits of Revelation, and the seven angels who pass up their right to rule to the eighth angel who sits upon the throne of Adam. This is symbolized by King David's own choosing where the seven sons of Jesse stand before Samuel. Eliab is of such great stature that Samuel assumes he's the one. This is clearly a type and symbol of the great archangel Michael. Yet the right to rule passes on to the youngest who isn't even present or numbered among them. Saul is a type of the one whose right it was to rule next who fell due to pride, refusing to worship Adam.

In testament of Levi there are seven men in white who dress Levi in the vestment of the High Priest symbolic of the seven holy ones who dress and prepare the eighth angel to join their order. If Joseph Smith told these men, who were all raised to believe the Holy Ghost wasn't a distinct individual, that he was yet higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself they would all have cried blasphemy and sought his life just as he predicted.

" So is god & is god & Jesus Christ & the holy ghost. Separate persons. but the all agree in one or the Self Same thing But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies" ~ Joseph Smith

That's a difficult quote to synthesize with Jospeh Smith being the Holy Ghost "yet a spiritual body waiting to take himself a body"

Here's another - notice the context of the fullness of the Priesthood. The fullness aligns PERFECTLY to the fourth token - being fastened as a nail in the sure place exactly as predicted in Isaiah for the Davidic heir. Securing the right as King IS becoming a King and a Priest.

"Although David was a king, he never did obtain the spirit and power of Elijah and the fullness of the Priesthood; and the Priesthood that he received, and the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage." ~ Joseph Smith

The unspoken subtext is clear .... "given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage[,]" who WILL secure the fullness of the Priesthood

[Luke]

Lol who is shoehorning? You are trying to shoehorn healing into the word resurrection to make this Joseph Smith theory float. He believed in a mortal future king David. This failure by the brethren to prepare the minds of the saints to receive this king is central to the watchtower fail. This failure is what is meant by the branches taking strength into themselves.

I'm not shoehorning, I'm saying there's more than one servant. I never claimed Joseph was the DS, because he isn't

Folks trying to shoehorn the past, familiar, the known into the future is not a new phenomenon.

True and I'm not doing that, go back and read my comments

The first trumpet of healing

The morning of the first healing

Jesus is healing the marring and not death. The healing somehow shows that Jesus' Wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil. A resurrection is a display of power not wisdom.....

Says who? Who are you to say that resurrection isn't what Jesus' was referring to

Anyway my calling into question your motives was to hopefully save you from further embarrassment coming into this thread half cocked, overly eager to prove me wrong about shoehorning... You know exactly what I'm talking about.

It really isn't embarrassing though. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I'm just stating my opinion but you feel the need to attack me. I'm unsure what I've done to touch such a nerve. I've done nothing wrong lol

As for shoehorning the marred servant into the end times mortal king, clearly you need to spend more time in Isaiah and less in Brigham Youngs journals.

1. Strawman
2. Isaiah never says that the DS is the MS

[Luke]

Also Alaris I have to say have you ever considered that you might be wrong? You come across as if you feel like your opinions are pure truth and anything that anyone else says is automatically wrong, and that they aren't real truth seekers. Can you not see how full of pride that is?

[Alaris]

Also Alaris I have to say have you ever considered that you might be wrong? You come across as if you feel like your opinions are pure truth and anything that anyone else says is automatically wrong, and that they aren't real truth seekers. Can you not see how full of pride that is?

Ask Robbinius for many examples of me being ever eager to let go of a past conclusions for further light and knowledge. You can find examples in this very thread. For example, I used to believe Abraham 3 was about choosing Michael - yet this world was Michaels from the very beginning. He earned this world the same way ALL gods earn worlds of their own where their throne is placed upon the world. As emblematic of the grand presidency in heaven, the Gods of Earths just like this one stand down to allow a younger soul to rule in their stead - to earn their own throne by doing the very works and tasting of the powers of the world to come - a principle that trickles down to all of us.

I used to believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost. Heck, when I first joined this forum I embraced the idea that all who are baptized join in on a collective Holy Ghost identity (pains me to admit that one.) Go ahead and look through my early posts. I WAS WRONG about that.

If you can find examples of anyone doing the same, I'd be more than happy to receive it as we've been infected by a plague of pride where folks resist any semblance of being wrong about darn near anything and avoid apologies like they're the plague. I'm afraid we'll see what real plagues look like soon enough.

I have only one object and desire in mind here and that's to discover the truth, share it, and rejoice in it with my brethren. And if that means suffering the lambasting of folks who have other objects in mind so be it. And whenever I call folks out for anything here, I hope it's heavily balanced in the spirit of love as it is here for you. We should not be closed to censuring each other if our object is truth and understanding and further light - which light cannot be attained if we marry our pride to our current understanding.

[Baurak Ale]

The Marred Servant and the Davidic Servant aren't necessarily the same people

Joseph Smith is probably the Marred Servant (he is also the One Mighty and Strong who brings forth the sealed portion)

??? is the Davidic Servant

People always try and shoehorn the many servants into one individual when this simply isn't the case. There are many last days servants

Be sure your motivations are seeking truth and not seeking retribution. Jesus says He will heal the marred servant in 3 Nephi 21. That never happened with Joseph.

Thanks for the link. I was able to get to the discourse by Joseph Smith given on the 10th of March, 1844, as recorded in the DHC 6:249-254, and also the Times and Seasons article about the Millennium printed on the 15th of February, 1842, included as part of vol. 3, no. 8, pp. 687–702.

Both references do mention the latter-day David who will be a king during the Millennium, but nothing else is added. The Times and Seasons says:

• "The immortal saints will be made kings and priests, and they shall reign with Christ; but is is not said that the mortal ones shall be made kings and priests, to hold authority with Christ like the immortal ones, while in a state of mortality; only they shall have a king, priests, and all other necessary officers, to administer all ordinances, and perform all necessary ceremonies. We mean a king that shall be chosen or proceed out of their midst" (p. 690, emphasis added).

These two quotes can only support the conclusion that in the millennium there will be a mortal descendant of David named David who will rule the righteous mortals.

That Joseph Smith is perhaps God the Third, the Testator, and his healing from being marred may be his resurrection and return to finish the strange act and marvelous work as an immortal being, does not unseat this mortal David or Davidic Servant.

That's hardly grounds for proving the Joseph Smith is the testator either. I used to believe this very thing years ago when I pondered what possibly Joseph could have meant by "would to God brethren I could tell you who I am" - yet the answer to that mystery lies in Zechariah 4, Revelation, and the Discourse on Abbaton - and the Testament of Levi. Oh and 1 Enoch. Seven holy ones ... who have already secured the fullness of the Priesthood and secured their unconditional inheritance are the seven candlesticks of Zechariah 4, the seven spirits of Revelation, and the seven angels who pass up their right to rule to the eighth angel who sits upon the throne of Adam. This is symbolized by King David's own choosing where the seven sons of Jesse stand before Samuel. Eliab is of such great stature that Samuel assumes he's the one. This is clearly a type and symbol of the great archangel Michael. Yet the right to rule passes on to the youngest who isn't even present or numbered among them. Saul is a type of the one whose right it was to rule next who fell due to pride, refusing to worship Adam.

In testament of Levi there are seven men in white who dress Levi in the vestment of the High Priest symbolic of the seven holy ones who dress and prepare the eighth angel to join their order. If Joseph Smith told these men, who were all raised to believe the Holy Ghost wasn't a distinct individual, that he was yet higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself they would all have cried blasphemy and sought his life just as he predicted.

" So is god & is god & Jesus Christ & the holy ghost. Separate persons. but the all agree in one or the Self Same thing But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies" ~ Joseph Smith

That's a difficult quote to synthesize with Jospeh Smith being the Holy Ghost "yet a spiritual body waiting to take himself a body"

What is the primary object? Learning or being right?

I am trying to learn, but you get so hot headed and defensive when contrary opinions are brought up that it becomes hard to learn anything from you. Also, your WPM must be insanely high because I will have barely written up a response when I click submit and find that you've written two or more responses in the meantime, lol.

Yes, that quote does present trouble to my view, along with D&C 130. But I can accept that the Holy Ghost has more than one meaning in the case of D&C 130. Can you supply the citation for that quote about the holy ghost taking a body so I can do more research on it?

As for a general take on everything else, I just don't think your connections to the apocrypha and the number seven, etc., are that compelling. I find it very convoluting and difficult to comprehend—not a great test result for the plainness that I typically find in God's dealings. I like Avraham Giliadi's research on Isaiah and appreciate his translation, but I don't like to lean on his interpolation that some "Davidic servant" is hiding in the text and that key words are needed to make linkages from one place to another. I like to think for myself on that. When I attempt to gain the spirit of prophecy and thereby understand Isaiah, as Nephi instructs, I find that the only hidden character is Isaiah himself who is narrating and speaking for God in condemning the drunkards of Ephraim, etc., and that this represents whoever the spokesperson for God is on the earth at a given time condemning the faithlessness of the body of the church. It is Israel as a people, and their local leaders and politicians, who are the drunkards that lack the faith to receive God's word and be brought into his presence, and thus the brethren have been told to be silent by God and are only allowed to tell us to repent of pride and seek the Holy Ghost's direction for ourselves. When the OMAS comes he will find that those who did follow direction of the brethren to gain the Holy Ghost for themselves will be able to withstand the whirlwind. A mere remnant shall return, as Isaiah prophesies, while I fear that others who would have followed will be outside the sheepfold and their names not found in the Book of Remembrance.

[Robbinius]

Also Alaris I have to say have you ever considered that you might be wrong? You come across as if you feel like your opinions are pure truth and anything that anyone else says is automatically wrong, and that they aren't real truth seekers. Can you not see how full of pride that is?

Ask Robbinius for many examples of me being ever eager to let go of a past conclusions for further light and knowledge. You can find examples in this very thread. For example, I used to believe Abraham 3 was about choosing Michael - yet this world was Michaels from the very beginning. He earned this world the same way ALL gods earn worlds of their own where their throne is placed upon the world. As an emblematic of the grand presidency in heaven, the Gods of Earths just like this one stand down to allow a younger soul to rule in their stead - to earn their own throne by doing the very works and tasting of the powers of the world to come - a principle that trickles down to all of us.

I used to believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost. Heck, when I first joined this forum I embraced the idea that all who are baptized join in on a collective Holy Ghost identity (pains me to admit that one.) Go ahead and look through my early posts. I WAS WRONG about that.

If you can find examples of anyone doing the same, I'd be more than happy to receive it as we've been infected by a plague of pride where folks resist any semblance of being wrong about darn near anything and avoid apologies like they're the plague. I'm afraid we'll see what real plagues look like soon enough.

I have only one object and desire in mind here and that's to discover the truth, share it, and rejoice in it with my brethren. And if that means suffering the lambasting of folks who have other objects in mind so be it. And whenever I call folks out for anything here, I hope it's heavily balanced in the spirit of love as it is here for you. We should not be closed to censuring each other if our object is truth and understanding and further light - which light cannot be attained if we marry our pride to our current understanding.

I will chime in here. Just this weekend I pitched a new interpretation of scripture at him that challenges a significant component of what he's been talking about on here regarding the Rod and the Root. He was nothing but humble and anxious to consider where he may be wrong. This is par for the course. I have never seen him hold onto an incorrect position when greater light is manifest. It's shocking actually. I expect a hard pushback and never get it. He's anxious to admit when he's wrong.

There's other times however, when I'll pitch something and he will push back. I will search for the Spirit to show me where I'm wrong. Every time he's pushed back on me, I quickly see where I was wrong.

Furthermore, I will chime in and say the things he's pushing on here with Joseph Smith being above the Holy Ghost as one of the seven archangels who operate under Jesus Christ are true. The Spirit has born witness to both him and me.

[abijah`]

"criticism is for people who aren't perfect"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb9SyOQ ... u.be&t=260

[Alaris]

Be sure your motivations are seeking truth and not seeking retribution. Jesus says He will heal the marred servant in 3 Nephi 21. That never happened with Joseph.

Thanks for the link. I was able to get to the discourse by Joseph Smith given on the 10th of March, 1844, as recorded in the DHC 6:249-254, and also the Times and Seasons article about the Millennium printed on the 15th of February, 1842, included as part of vol. 3, no. 8, pp. 687–702.

Both references do mention the latter-day David who will be a king during the Millennium, but nothing else is added. The Times and Seasons says:

• "The immortal saints will be made kings and priests, and they shall reign with Christ; but is is not said that the mortal ones shall be made kings and priests, to hold authority with Christ like the immortal ones, while in a state of mortality; only they shall have a king, priests, and all other necessary officers, to administer all ordinances, and perform all necessary ceremonies. We mean a king that shall be chosen or proceed out of their midst" (p. 690, emphasis added).

These two quotes can only support the conclusion that in the millennium there will be a mortal descendant of David named David who will rule the righteous mortals.

That Joseph Smith is perhaps God the Third, the Testator, and his healing from being marred may be his resurrection and return to finish the strange act and marvelous work as an immortal being, does not unseat this mortal David or Davidic Servant.

That's hardly grounds for proving the Joseph Smith is the testator either. I used to believe this very thing years ago when I pondered what possibly Joseph could have meant by "would to God brethren I could tell you who I am" - yet the answer to that mystery lies in Zechariah 4, Revelation, and the Discourse on Abbaton - and the Testament of Levi. Oh and 1 Enoch. Seven holy ones ... who have already secured the fullness of the Priesthood and secured their unconditional inheritance are the seven candlesticks of Zechariah 4, the seven spirits of Revelation, and the seven angels who pass up their right to rule to the eighth angel who sits upon the throne of Adam. This is symbolized by King David's own choosing where the seven sons of Jesse stand before Samuel. Eliab is of such great stature that Samuel assumes he's the one. This is clearly a type and symbol of the great archangel Michael. Yet the right to rule passes on to the youngest who isn't even present or numbered among them. Saul is a type of the one whose right it was to rule next who fell due to pride, refusing to worship Adam.

In testament of Levi there are seven men in white who dress Levi in the vestment of the High Priest symbolic of the seven holy ones who dress and prepare the eighth angel to join their order. If Joseph Smith told these men, who were all raised to believe the Holy Ghost wasn't a distinct individual, that he was yet higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself they would all have cried blasphemy and sought his life just as he predicted.

" So is god & is god & Jesus Christ & the holy ghost. Separate persons. but the all agree in one or the Self Same thing But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies" ~ Joseph Smith

That's a difficult quote to synthesize with Jospeh Smith being the Holy Ghost "yet a spiritual body waiting to take himself a body"

What is the primary object? Learning or being right?

I am trying to learn, but you get so hot headed and defensive when contrary opinions are brought up that it becomes hard to learn anything from you. Also, your WPM must be insanely high because I will have barely written up a response when I click submit and find that you've written two or more responses in the meantime, lol.

Yes, that quote does present trouble to my view, along with D&C 130. But I can accept that the Holy Ghost has more than one meaning in the case of D&C 130. Can you supply the citation for that quote about the holy ghost taking a body so I can do more research on it?

As for a general take on everything else, I just don't think your connections to the apocrypha and the number seven, etc., are that compelling. I find it very convoluting and difficult to comprehend—not a great test result for the plainness that I typically find in God's dealings. I like Avraham Giliadi's research on Isaiah and appreciate his translation, but I don't like to lean on his interpolation that some "Davidic servant" is hiding in the text and that key words are needed to make linkages from one place to another. I like to think for myself on that. When I attempt to gain the spirit of prophecy and thereby understand Isaiah, as Nephi instructs, I find that the only hidden character is Isaiah himself who is narrating and speaking for God in condemning the drunkards of Ephraim, etc., and that this represents whoever the spokesperson for God is on the earth at a given time condemning the faithlessness of the body of the church. It is Israel as a people, and their local leaders and politicians, who are the drunkards that lack the faith to receive God's word and be brought into his presence, and thus the brethren have been told to be silent by God and are only allowed to tell us to repent of pride and seek the Holy Ghost's direction for ourselves. When the OMAS comes he will find that those who did follow direction of the brethren to gain the Holy Ghost for themselves will be able to withstand the whirlwind. A mere remnant shall return, as Isaiah prophesies, while I fear that others who would have followed will be outside the sheepfold and their names not found in the Book of Remembrance.

BA when you open your heart and plant this seed, it bears immense, beautiful fruit. The Davidic Servant isn't an Isaiah construct - Isaiah just happens to have the most pointed prophecies. The Psalms are riddled with prophecies about the Davidic King - Jeremiah - Ezekiel both are full of Davidic "Servant" prophecies. Look at what Moroni quotes to Joseph Smith! He quotes Isaiah 11 and Malachi where the Angel of the Covenant comes suddenly to his temple and purifies the Sons of Levi. When one learns - as Abijah has - that the Angel of the Lord who is ALL OVER the Old Testament and in the Pearl of Great Price and beyond - is in fact the Holy Ghost, suddenly the amount of time spent on these prophecies start to make sense. The Angel of the Lord / Holy Ghost is experiencing his probationary rule in this world right now earning his Kingdom. Jesus's primary gift to us is the gift of the Holy Ghost. All our ordinances now point forward to these fulfillment - the fall festivals. This is not some isolated Isaiah theory. This truth is the connective thread through all the standard works and beyond. This is the "Elect One" of 1 Enoch.

As for the seven levels of mankind, they lay the foundation to understanding the progression to Godhood. It's really not all that convoluted though I'm sure my weakness in writing may make it seem that way. It's literally as easy as counting to seven.

1 - cursed
2 - gentiles
3 - Israel
4 - levites
5 - latter-day saints / Ephraim
6 - high priests
7- kings and priests

3 Nephi 23:1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.

Perhaps the greatest single chapter regarding the Davidic Servant isn't in Isaiah but Ezekiel. "David" and "servant" aren't the interpolation of man but the words of Jehovah.

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Clearly this is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant between Jehovah and his Davidic Servant or Beloved Servant.

[Baurak Ale]

Thanks for the link. I was able to get to the discourse by Joseph Smith given on the 10th of March, 1844, as recorded in the DHC 6:249-254, and also the Times and Seasons article about the Millennium printed on the 15th of February, 1842, included as part of vol. 3, no. 8, pp. 687–702.

Both references do mention the latter-day David who will be a king during the Millennium, but nothing else is added. The Times and Seasons says:

• "The immortal saints will be made kings and priests, and they shall reign with Christ; but is is not said that the mortal ones shall be made kings and priests, to hold authority with Christ like the immortal ones, while in a state of mortality; only they shall have a king, priests, and all other necessary officers, to administer all ordinances, and perform all necessary ceremonies. We mean a king that shall be chosen or proceed out of their midst" (p. 690, emphasis added).

These two quotes can only support the conclusion that in the millennium there will be a mortal descendant of David named David who will rule the righteous mortals.

That Joseph Smith is perhaps God the Third, the Testator, and his healing from being marred may be his resurrection and return to finish the strange act and marvelous work as an immortal being, does not unseat this mortal David or Davidic Servant.

That's hardly grounds for proving the Joseph Smith is the testator either. I used to believe this very thing years ago when I pondered what possibly Joseph could have meant by "would to God brethren I could tell you who I am" - yet the answer to that mystery lies in Zechariah 4, Revelation, and the Discourse on Abbaton - and the Testament of Levi. Oh and 1 Enoch. Seven holy ones ... who have already secured the fullness of the Priesthood and secured their unconditional inheritance are the seven candlesticks of Zechariah 4, the seven spirits of Revelation, and the seven angels who pass up their right to rule to the eighth angel who sits upon the throne of Adam. This is symbolized by King David's own choosing where the seven sons of Jesse stand before Samuel. Eliab is of such great stature that Samuel assumes he's the one. This is clearly a type and symbol of the great archangel Michael. Yet the right to rule passes on to the youngest who isn't even present or numbered among them. Saul is a type of the one whose right it was to rule next who fell due to pride, refusing to worship Adam.

In testament of Levi there are seven men in white who dress Levi in the vestment of the High Priest symbolic of the seven holy ones who dress and prepare the eighth angel to join their order. If Joseph Smith told these men, who were all raised to believe the Holy Ghost wasn't a distinct individual, that he was yet higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself they would all have cried blasphemy and sought his life just as he predicted.

" So is god & is god & Jesus Christ & the holy ghost. Separate persons. but the all agree in one or the Self Same thing But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies" ~ Joseph Smith

That's a difficult quote to synthesize with Jospeh Smith being the Holy Ghost "yet a spiritual body waiting to take himself a body"

What is the primary object? Learning or being right?

I am trying to learn, but you get so hot headed and defensive when contrary opinions are brought up that it becomes hard to learn anything from you. Also, your WPM must be insanely high because I will have barely written up a response when I click submit and find that you've written two or more responses in the meantime, lol.

Yes, that quote does present trouble to my view, along with D&C 130. But I can accept that the Holy Ghost has more than one meaning in the case of D&C 130. Can you supply the citation for that quote about the holy ghost taking a body so I can do more research on it?

As for a general take on everything else, I just don't think your connections to the apocrypha and the number seven, etc., are that compelling. I find it very convoluting and difficult to comprehend—not a great test result for the plainness that I typically find in God's dealings. I like Avraham Giliadi's research on Isaiah and appreciate his translation, but I don't like to lean on his interpolation that some "Davidic servant" is hiding in the text and that key words are needed to make linkages from one place to another. I like to think for myself on that. When I attempt to gain the spirit of prophecy and thereby understand Isaiah, as Nephi instructs, I find that the only hidden character is Isaiah himself who is narrating and speaking for God in condemning the drunkards of Ephraim, etc., and that this represents whoever the spokesperson for God is on the earth at a given time condemning the faithlessness of the body of the church. It is Israel as a people, and their local leaders and politicians, who are the drunkards that lack the faith to receive God's word and be brought into his presence, and thus the brethren have been told to be silent by God and are only allowed to tell us to repent of pride and seek the Holy Ghost's direction for ourselves. When the OMAS comes he will find that those who did follow direction of the brethren to gain the Holy Ghost for themselves will be able to withstand the whirlwind. A mere remnant shall return, as Isaiah prophesies, while I fear that others who would have followed will be outside the sheepfold and their names not found in the Book of Remembrance.

When one learns...that the Angel of the Lord who is ALL OVER the Old Testament and in the Pearl of Great Price and beyond - is in fact the Holy Ghost, suddenly the amount of time spent on these prophecies start to make sense. The Angel of the Lord / Holy Ghost is experiencing his probationary rule in this world right now earning his Kingdom.

Something clicked when I read this particular line. I had never thought of the Holy Ghost's probation, which Joseph Smith said he's currently passing through, as being fulfilled in his role as a spirit being; I had always thought "probation" in this quote had to mean physical incarnation, hence Joseph Smith as the only living candidate that made sense when that quote was given by him. But what you and Robbinius are saying is that Joseph Smith is a character above the Holy Ghost yet below Jesus... right? The seven angels somehow include some of the godhead? some mental paradigms are liquifying, so you'll have to excuse my sentence fragments...

Well, I will have to ruminate on this a little as I test and prod my mental constructs to see if it continues to make sense.

All that said, I now we've had a falling out, but if I'm correct in my summation it's due to my defense of the church and its leaders (new symbol, general conference, etc.). I also once asked to see how the church was removing the Holy Ghost from the scriptures as had been claimed (that would be pretty serious) but I don't think I got a direct answer. I would like to see what is meant by that.

Here's the deal, the Holy Ghost has instructed me to stay in the church and moreover I have seen the attitudes I sense in you in myself in times past—as we learn about church history and expanded truth it's bound to happen. It's a test. Joseph Smith says the spirit of apostasy is to stand up in the congregation and say that you know the way to truth and life and the brethren leading the church are out of the way. It's easy to become like this—I did for a while, but now I see the brethren as doing the best they can as men who are more or less inspired but most importantly sitting in Moses' seat. I prefer to treasure up truth in my heart (that which is not taught for doctrine due to the keys of the mysteries being turned against them) and keep my covenant to build up The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion. My experience in the temple in March lead me to continue to believe that Zion will yet come forth from this body. I am waiting for messengers from my father—any other self-directed route out of the church is not to a place of safety, I would caution. It seemed like when I tried to give a word of caution to you that it was essentially rebuffed and ignored and I was turned into you and Robbinius' enemy. This has not made it easier for me to comprehend what you were saying about the Davidic Servant, and, in fact, it pushed me toward the conclusion that you had been mislead in your understanding.

Perhaps we won't see eye to eye on the original teachings of the church—such as polygamy and Adam-God, against which you puzzlingly tend to lob generalizing, tired attacks rather than engaging in an intelligent dialogue—but I can see the Holy Ghost as playing a role throughout the scriptures as you've stated. (To me it fits with Michael being the Father, Jesus being the son, and then the Holy Ghost being the hidden pupil that eventually becomes a mortal king in the Millennium—each having their own dispensation.) Another small detail I would push back against, as Robbinius said he has done with success in the past, is that the Holy Ghost did not resurrect Christ, the Father did. The last time I tried to maintain this point you didn't seem to want to listen. But I think you are more approachable in reality than this experience has made you out to be for me on this forum.

[Alaris]

That's hardly grounds for proving the Joseph Smith is the testator either. I used to believe this very thing years ago when I pondered what possibly Joseph could have meant by "would to God brethren I could tell you who I am" - yet the answer to that mystery lies in Zechariah 4, Revelation, and the Discourse on Abbaton - and the Testament of Levi. Oh and 1 Enoch. Seven holy ones ... who have already secured the fullness of the Priesthood and secured their unconditional inheritance are the seven candlesticks of Zechariah 4, the seven spirits of Revelation, and the seven angels who pass up their right to rule to the eighth angel who sits upon the throne of Adam. This is symbolized by King David's own choosing where the seven sons of Jesse stand before Samuel. Eliab is of such great stature that Samuel assumes he's the one. This is clearly a type and symbol of the great archangel Michael. Yet the right to rule passes on to the youngest who isn't even present or numbered among them. Saul is a type of the one whose right it was to rule next who fell due to pride, refusing to worship Adam.

In testament of Levi there are seven men in white who dress Levi in the vestment of the High Priest symbolic of the seven holy ones who dress and prepare the eighth angel to join their order. If Joseph Smith told these men, who were all raised to believe the Holy Ghost wasn't a distinct individual, that he was yet higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself they would all have cried blasphemy and sought his life just as he predicted.

" So is god & is god & Jesus Christ & the holy ghost. Separate persons. but the all agree in one or the Self Same thing But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies" ~ Joseph Smith

That's a difficult quote to synthesize with Jospeh Smith being the Holy Ghost "yet a spiritual body waiting to take himself a body"

What is the primary object? Learning or being right?

I am trying to learn, but you get so hot headed and defensive when contrary opinions are brought up that it becomes hard to learn anything from you. Also, your WPM must be insanely high because I will have barely written up a response when I click submit and find that you've written two or more responses in the meantime, lol.

Yes, that quote does present trouble to my view, along with D&C 130. But I can accept that the Holy Ghost has more than one meaning in the case of D&C 130. Can you supply the citation for that quote about the holy ghost taking a body so I can do more research on it?

As for a general take on everything else, I just don't think your connections to the apocrypha and the number seven, etc., are that compelling. I find it very convoluting and difficult to comprehend—not a great test result for the plainness that I typically find in God's dealings. I like Avraham Giliadi's research on Isaiah and appreciate his translation, but I don't like to lean on his interpolation that some "Davidic servant" is hiding in the text and that key words are needed to make linkages from one place to another. I like to think for myself on that. When I attempt to gain the spirit of prophecy and thereby understand Isaiah, as Nephi instructs, I find that the only hidden character is Isaiah himself who is narrating and speaking for God in condemning the drunkards of Ephraim, etc., and that this represents whoever the spokesperson for God is on the earth at a given time condemning the faithlessness of the body of the church. It is Israel as a people, and their local leaders and politicians, who are the drunkards that lack the faith to receive God's word and be brought into his presence, and thus the brethren have been told to be silent by God and are only allowed to tell us to repent of pride and seek the Holy Ghost's direction for ourselves. When the OMAS comes he will find that those who did follow direction of the brethren to gain the Holy Ghost for themselves will be able to withstand the whirlwind. A mere remnant shall return, as Isaiah prophesies, while I fear that others who would have followed will be outside the sheepfold and their names not found in the Book of Remembrance.

When one learns...that the Angel of the Lord who is ALL OVER the Old Testament and in the Pearl of Great Price and beyond - is in fact the Holy Ghost, suddenly the amount of time spent on these prophecies start to make sense. The Angel of the Lord / Holy Ghost is experiencing his probationary rule in this world right now earning his Kingdom.

Something clicked when I read this particular line. I had never thought of the Holy Ghost's probation, which Joseph Smith said he's currently passing through, as being fulfilled in his role as a spirit being; I had always thought "probation" in this quote had to mean physical incarnation, hence Joseph Smith as the only living candidate that made sense when that quote was given by him. But what you and Robbinius are saying is that Joseph Smith is a character above the Holy Ghost yet below Jesus... right? The seven angels somehow include some of the godhead? some mental paradigms are liquifying, so you'll have to excuse my sentence fragments...

Well, I will have to ruminate on this a little as I test and prod my mental constructs to see if it continues to make sense.

All that said, I now we've had a falling out, but if I'm correct in my summation it's due to my defense of the church and its leaders (new symbol, general conference, etc.). I also once asked to see how the church was removing the Holy Ghost from the scriptures as had been claimed (that would be pretty serious) but I don't think I got a direct answer. I would like to see what is meant by that.

Here's the deal, the Holy Ghost has instructed me to stay in the church and moreover I have seen the attitudes I sense in you in myself in times past—as we learn about church history and expanded truth it's bound to happen. It's a test. Joseph Smith says the spirit of apostasy is to stand up in the congregation and say that you know the way to truth and life and the brethren leading the church are out of the way. It's easy to become like this—I did for a while, but now I see the brethren as doing the best they can as men who are more or less inspired but most importantly sitting in Moses' seat. I prefer to treasure up truth in my heart (that which is not taught for doctrine due to the keys of the mysteries being turned against them) and keep my covenant to build up The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion. My experience in the temple in March lead me to continue to believe that Zion will yet come forth from this body. I am waiting for messengers from my father—any other self-directed route out of the church is not to a place of safety, I would caution. It seemed like when I tried to give a word of caution to you that it was essentially rebuffed and ignored and I was turned into you and Robbinius' enemy. This has not made it easier for me to comprehend what you were saying about the Davidic Servant, and, in fact, it pushed me toward the conclusion that you had been mislead in your understanding.

Perhaps we won't see eye to eye on the original teachings of the church—such as polygamy and Adam-God, against which you puzzlingly tend to lob generalizing, tired attacks rather than engaging in an intelligent dialogue—but I can see the Holy Ghost as playing a role throughout the scriptures as you've stated. (To me it fits with Michael being the Father, Jesus being the son, and then the Holy Ghost being the hidden pupil that eventually becomes a mortal king in the Millennium—each having their own dispensation.) Another small detail I would push back against, as Robbinius said he has done with success in the past, is that the Holy Ghost did not resurrect Christ, the Father did. The last time I tried to maintain this point you didn't seem to want to listen. But I think you are more approachable in reality than this experience has made you out to be for me on this forum.

All things are secondary to the Lord's teachings and His words and His will. This is the first great commandment.

[Baurak Ale]

I am trying to learn, but you get so hot headed and defensive when contrary opinions are brought up that it becomes hard to learn anything from you. Also, your WPM must be insanely high because I will have barely written up a response when I click submit and find that you've written two or more responses in the meantime, lol.

Yes, that quote does present trouble to my view, along with D&C 130. But I can accept that the Holy Ghost has more than one meaning in the case of D&C 130. Can you supply the citation for that quote about the holy ghost taking a body so I can do more research on it?

As for a general take on everything else, I just don't think your connections to the apocrypha and the number seven, etc., are that compelling. I find it very convoluting and difficult to comprehend—not a great test result for the plainness that I typically find in God's dealings. I like Avraham Giliadi's research on Isaiah and appreciate his translation, but I don't like to lean on his interpolation that some "Davidic servant" is hiding in the text and that key words are needed to make linkages from one place to another. I like to think for myself on that. When I attempt to gain the spirit of prophecy and thereby understand Isaiah, as Nephi instructs, I find that the only hidden character is Isaiah himself who is narrating and speaking for God in condemning the drunkards of Ephraim, etc., and that this represents whoever the spokesperson for God is on the earth at a given time condemning the faithlessness of the body of the church. It is Israel as a people, and their local leaders and politicians, who are the drunkards that lack the faith to receive God's word and be brought into his presence, and thus the brethren have been told to be silent by God and are only allowed to tell us to repent of pride and seek the Holy Ghost's direction for ourselves. When the OMAS comes he will find that those who did follow direction of the brethren to gain the Holy Ghost for themselves will be able to withstand the whirlwind. A mere remnant shall return, as Isaiah prophesies, while I fear that others who would have followed will be outside the sheepfold and their names not found in the Book of Remembrance.

When one learns...that the Angel of the Lord who is ALL OVER the Old Testament and in the Pearl of Great Price and beyond - is in fact the Holy Ghost, suddenly the amount of time spent on these prophecies start to make sense. The Angel of the Lord / Holy Ghost is experiencing his probationary rule in this world right now earning his Kingdom.

Something clicked when I read this particular line. I had never thought of the Holy Ghost's probation, which Joseph Smith said he's currently passing through, as being fulfilled in his role as a spirit being; I had always thought "probation" in this quote had to mean physical incarnation, hence Joseph Smith as the only living candidate that made sense when that quote was given by him. But what you and Robbinius are saying is that Joseph Smith is a character above the Holy Ghost yet below Jesus... right? The seven angels somehow include some of the godhead? some mental paradigms are liquifying, so you'll have to excuse my sentence fragments...

Well, I will have to ruminate on this a little as I test and prod my mental constructs to see if it continues to make sense.

All that said, I now we've had a falling out, but if I'm correct in my summation it's due to my defense of the church and its leaders (new symbol, general conference, etc.). I also once asked to see how the church was removing the Holy Ghost from the scriptures as had been claimed (that would be pretty serious) but I don't think I got a direct answer. I would like to see what is meant by that.

Here's the deal, the Holy Ghost has instructed me to stay in the church and moreover I have seen the attitudes I sense in you in myself in times past—as we learn about church history and expanded truth it's bound to happen. It's a test. Joseph Smith says the spirit of apostasy is to stand up in the congregation and say that you know the way to truth and life and the brethren leading the church are out of the way. It's easy to become like this—I did for a while, but now I see the brethren as doing the best they can as men who are more or less inspired but most importantly sitting in Moses' seat. I prefer to treasure up truth in my heart (that which is not taught for doctrine due to the keys of the mysteries being turned against them) and keep my covenant to build up The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion. My experience in the temple in March lead me to continue to believe that Zion will yet come forth from this body. I am waiting for messengers from my father—any other self-directed route out of the church is not to a place of safety, I would caution. It seemed like when I tried to give a word of caution to you that it was essentially rebuffed and ignored and I was turned into you and Robbinius' enemy. This has not made it easier for me to comprehend what you were saying about the Davidic Servant, and, in fact, it pushed me toward the conclusion that you had been mislead in your understanding.

Perhaps we won't see eye to eye on the original teachings of the church—such as polygamy and Adam-God, against which you puzzlingly tend to lob generalizing, tired attacks rather than engaging in an intelligent dialogue—but I can see the Holy Ghost as playing a role throughout the scriptures as you've stated. (To me it fits with Michael being the Father, Jesus being the son, and then the Holy Ghost being the hidden pupil that eventually becomes a mortal king in the Millennium—each having their own dispensation.) Another small detail I would push back against, as Robbinius said he has done with success in the past, is that the Holy Ghost did not resurrect Christ, the Father did. The last time I tried to maintain this point you didn't seem to want to listen. But I think you are more approachable in reality than this experience has made you out to be for me on this forum.

All things are secondary to the Lord's teachings and His words and His will. This is the first great commandment.

Well... that is what someone under the influence of the spirit of apostasy, as Joseph Smith described it, would have to say to justify their course. Is that all you have to say in response to me?

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That is the first and great commandment. Combined with the oath and covenant of the priesthood you find that "he that receiveth my servants receiveth me" (D&C 84:36). If you reject his servants then you reject Him and therefore are found not in keeping with the first great commandment. There's nothing about all things being secondary to His teachings, etc. The question one must ask then is this: who are his servants in this latter day?

I take it from the solemnity and brevity of your response to me that you reject the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as constituting His servants. If you meant something else by that, then please elucidate.

[Alaris]

When one learns...that the Angel of the Lord who is ALL OVER the Old Testament and in the Pearl of Great Price and beyond - is in fact the Holy Ghost, suddenly the amount of time spent on these prophecies start to make sense. The Angel of the Lord / Holy Ghost is experiencing his probationary rule in this world right now earning his Kingdom.

Something clicked when I read this particular line. I had never thought of the Holy Ghost's probation, which Joseph Smith said he's currently passing through, as being fulfilled in his role as a spirit being; I had always thought "probation" in this quote had to mean physical incarnation, hence Joseph Smith as the only living candidate that made sense when that quote was given by him. But what you and Robbinius are saying is that Joseph Smith is a character above the Holy Ghost yet below Jesus... right? The seven angels somehow include some of the godhead? some mental paradigms are liquifying, so you'll have to excuse my sentence fragments...

Well, I will have to ruminate on this a little as I test and prod my mental constructs to see if it continues to make sense.

All that said, I now we've had a falling out, but if I'm correct in my summation it's due to my defense of the church and its leaders (new symbol, general conference, etc.). I also once asked to see how the church was removing the Holy Ghost from the scriptures as had been claimed (that would be pretty serious) but I don't think I got a direct answer. I would like to see what is meant by that.

Here's the deal, the Holy Ghost has instructed me to stay in the church and moreover I have seen the attitudes I sense in you in myself in times past—as we learn about church history and expanded truth it's bound to happen. It's a test. Joseph Smith says the spirit of apostasy is to stand up in the congregation and say that you know the way to truth and life and the brethren leading the church are out of the way. It's easy to become like this—I did for a while, but now I see the brethren as doing the best they can as men who are more or less inspired but most importantly sitting in Moses' seat. I prefer to treasure up truth in my heart (that which is not taught for doctrine due to the keys of the mysteries being turned against them) and keep my covenant to build up The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion. My experience in the temple in March lead me to continue to believe that Zion will yet come forth from this body. I am waiting for messengers from my father—any other self-directed route out of the church is not to a place of safety, I would caution. It seemed like when I tried to give a word of caution to you that it was essentially rebuffed and ignored and I was turned into you and Robbinius' enemy. This has not made it easier for me to comprehend what you were saying about the Davidic Servant, and, in fact, it pushed me toward the conclusion that you had been mislead in your understanding.

Perhaps we won't see eye to eye on the original teachings of the church—such as polygamy and Adam-God, against which you puzzlingly tend to lob generalizing, tired attacks rather than engaging in an intelligent dialogue—but I can see the Holy Ghost as playing a role throughout the scriptures as you've stated. (To me it fits with Michael being the Father, Jesus being the son, and then the Holy Ghost being the hidden pupil that eventually becomes a mortal king in the Millennium—each having their own dispensation.) Another small detail I would push back against, as Robbinius said he has done with success in the past, is that the Holy Ghost did not resurrect Christ, the Father did. The last time I tried to maintain this point you didn't seem to want to listen. But I think you are more approachable in reality than this experience has made you out to be for me on this forum.

All things are secondary to the Lord's teachings and His words and His will. This is the first great commandment.

Well... that is what someone under the influence of the spirit of apostasy, as Joseph Smith described it, would have to say to justify their course. Is that all you have to say in response to me?

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That is the first and great commandment. Combined with the oath and covenant of the priesthood you find that "he that receiveth my servants receiveth me" (D&C 84:36). If you reject his servants then you reject Him and therefore are found not in keeping with the first great commandment. There's nothing about all things being secondary to His teachings, etc. The question one must ask then is this: who are his servants in this latter day?

I take it from the solemnity and brevity of your response to me that you reject the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as constituting His servants. If you meant something else by that, then please elucidate.

LOL!!! That was hearty laugh thank you. So my silence means that ... OR I'm busy with, I don't know, WORK, where I don't have time to go through your self-focused ruminations or coddling any wounded pride. The first commandment is the greater work. Nice try though.

Clearly you haven't read or understood what I feel about the Lord's watchmen today given the disconnect between your accusation and what I actually believe.

[Baurak Ale]

Something clicked when I read this particular line. I had never thought of the Holy Ghost's probation, which Joseph Smith said he's currently passing through, as being fulfilled in his role as a spirit being; I had always thought "probation" in this quote had to mean physical incarnation, hence Joseph Smith as the only living candidate that made sense when that quote was given by him. But what you and Robbinius are saying is that Joseph Smith is a character above the Holy Ghost yet below Jesus... right? The seven angels somehow include some of the godhead? some mental paradigms are liquifying, so you'll have to excuse my sentence fragments...

Well, I will have to ruminate on this a little as I test and prod my mental constructs to see if it continues to make sense.

All that said, I now we've had a falling out, but if I'm correct in my summation it's due to my defense of the church and its leaders (new symbol, general conference, etc.). I also once asked to see how the church was removing the Holy Ghost from the scriptures as had been claimed (that would be pretty serious) but I don't think I got a direct answer. I would like to see what is meant by that.

Here's the deal, the Holy Ghost has instructed me to stay in the church and moreover I have seen the attitudes I sense in you in myself in times past—as we learn about church history and expanded truth it's bound to happen. It's a test. Joseph Smith says the spirit of apostasy is to stand up in the congregation and say that you know the way to truth and life and the brethren leading the church are out of the way. It's easy to become like this—I did for a while, but now I see the brethren as doing the best they can as men who are more or less inspired but most importantly sitting in Moses' seat. I prefer to treasure up truth in my heart (that which is not taught for doctrine due to the keys of the mysteries being turned against them) and keep my covenant to build up The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the establishment of Zion. My experience in the temple in March lead me to continue to believe that Zion will yet come forth from this body. I am waiting for messengers from my father—any other self-directed route out of the church is not to a place of safety, I would caution. It seemed like when I tried to give a word of caution to you that it was essentially rebuffed and ignored and I was turned into you and Robbinius' enemy. This has not made it easier for me to comprehend what you were saying about the Davidic Servant, and, in fact, it pushed me toward the conclusion that you had been mislead in your understanding.

Perhaps we won't see eye to eye on the original teachings of the church—such as polygamy and Adam-God, against which you puzzlingly tend to lob generalizing, tired attacks rather than engaging in an intelligent dialogue—but I can see the Holy Ghost as playing a role throughout the scriptures as you've stated. (To me it fits with Michael being the Father, Jesus being the son, and then the Holy Ghost being the hidden pupil that eventually becomes a mortal king in the Millennium—each having their own dispensation.) Another small detail I would push back against, as Robbinius said he has done with success in the past, is that the Holy Ghost did not resurrect Christ, the Father did. The last time I tried to maintain this point you didn't seem to want to listen. But I think you are more approachable in reality than this experience has made you out to be for me on this forum.

All things are secondary to the Lord's teachings and His words and His will. This is the first great commandment.

Well... that is what someone under the influence of the spirit of apostasy, as Joseph Smith described it, would have to say to justify their course. Is that all you have to say in response to me?

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That is the first and great commandment. Combined with the oath and covenant of the priesthood you find that "he that receiveth my servants receiveth me" (D&C 84:36). If you reject his servants then you reject Him and therefore are found not in keeping with the first great commandment. There's nothing about all things being secondary to His teachings, etc. The question one must ask then is this: who are his servants in this latter day?

I take it from the solemnity and brevity of your response to me that you reject the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as constituting His servants. If you meant something else by that, then please elucidate.

LOL!!! That was hearty laugh thank you. So my silence means that ... OR I'm busy with, I don't know, WORK, where I don't have time to go through your self-focused ruminations or coddling any wounded pride. The first commandment is the greater work. Nice try though.

Clearly you haven't read or understood what I feel about the Lord's watchmen today given the disconnect between your accusation and what I actually believe.

Haha, okay, so you’re busy with work. Why did you send a cryptic statement that seemed inflated with the airs of conceit? I thought I might have jumped the gun with my response, but then I couldn’t figure out why you’d shoot off a pithy retort. I’m know you do reject the brethren though. You have planted that seed.

I hope it’s not beyond your pride to still respond to my full message earlier. I want to know your thoughts. Also, the first commandment is to love God, I don’t know what you mean by “the greater work.”

[Alaris]

All things are secondary to the Lord's teachings and His words and His will. This is the first great commandment.

Well... that is what someone under the influence of the spirit of apostasy, as Joseph Smith described it, would have to say to justify their course. Is that all you have to say in response to me?

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That is the first and great commandment. Combined with the oath and covenant of the priesthood you find that "he that receiveth my servants receiveth me" (D&C 84:36). If you reject his servants then you reject Him and therefore are found not in keeping with the first great commandment. There's nothing about all things being secondary to His teachings, etc. The question one must ask then is this: who are his servants in this latter day?

I take it from the solemnity and brevity of your response to me that you reject the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as constituting His servants. If you meant something else by that, then please elucidate.

LOL!!! That was hearty laugh thank you. So my silence means that ... OR I'm busy with, I don't know, WORK, where I don't have time to go through your self-focused ruminations or coddling any wounded pride. The first commandment is the greater work. Nice try though.

Clearly you haven't read or understood what I feel about the Lord's watchmen today given the disconnect between your accusation and what I actually believe.

Haha, okay, so you’re busy with work. Why did you send a cryptic statement that seemed inflated with the airs of conceit? I thought I might have jumped the gun with my response, but then I couldn’t figure out why you’d shoot off a pithy retort. I’m know you do reject the brethren though. You have planted that seed.

I hope it’s not beyond your pride to still respond to my full message earlier. I want to know your thoughts. Also, the first commandment is to love God, I don’t know what you mean by “the greater work.”

Whether the Lord rejects the brethren will become apparent soon enough. Read Isaiah 28, Jacob 5, and D&C 101 - they all read like many and perhaps most of them are preserved, where only the most bitter of branches are plucked out. Yet they are gathered back to the Master of the Vineyard. Then the gathering of Israel and redemption of the vineyard. My heart rejoices at the thought of this day - and those who cannot receive their own light may fall to darkness before the Lord cleanses the vineyard and sets his house in order. I find it very likely that the most bitter branches will remain while the rest are cast out - very likely the majority of the Apostles who are in fact Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Your accusations and questions are in the very spirit of the Caiaphas and the corrupt Sanhedrin - I don't answer to you, and I certainly don't need your false accusations leveled at me. This is the Lord's church yet his watchmen have betrayed the written word just as prophesied by Joseph Smith, Isaiah 28, D&C 101 and elsewhere. There are many prophecies about this stumbling just before the OMAS stands up and sets the house in order. Those who can't see past themselves while assessing this situation will be stuck while those who learn to receive directly from the Holy Ghost - just as President Nelson prophesied - will survive spiritually what's coming and see what's what and, more importantly, who's who.

[Baurak Ale]

Well... that is what someone under the influence of the spirit of apostasy, as Joseph Smith described it, would have to say to justify their course. Is that all you have to say in response to me?

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." That is the first and great commandment. Combined with the oath and covenant of the priesthood you find that "he that receiveth my servants receiveth me" (D&C 84:36). If you reject his servants then you reject Him and therefore are found not in keeping with the first great commandment. There's nothing about all things being secondary to His teachings, etc. The question one must ask then is this: who are his servants in this latter day?

I take it from the solemnity and brevity of your response to me that you reject the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as constituting His servants. If you meant something else by that, then please elucidate.

LOL!!! That was hearty laugh thank you. So my silence means that ... OR I'm busy with, I don't know, WORK, where I don't have time to go through your self-focused ruminations or coddling any wounded pride. The first commandment is the greater work. Nice try though.

Clearly you haven't read or understood what I feel about the Lord's watchmen today given the disconnect between your accusation and what I actually believe.

Haha, okay, so you’re busy with work. Why did you send a cryptic statement that seemed inflated with the airs of conceit? I thought I might have jumped the gun with my response, but then I couldn’t figure out why you’d shoot off a pithy retort. I’m know you do reject the brethren though. You have planted that seed.

I hope it’s not beyond your pride to still respond to my full message earlier. I want to know your thoughts. Also, the first commandment is to love God, I don’t know what you mean by “the greater work.”

Whether the Lord rejects the brethren will become apparent soon enough. Read Isaiah 28, Jacob 5, and D&C 101 - they all read like many and perhaps most of them are preserved, where only the most bitter of branches are plucked out. Yet they are gathered back to the Master of the Vineyard. Then the gathering of Israel and redemption of the vineyard. My heart rejoices at the thought of this day - and those who cannot receive their own light may fall to darkness before the Lord cleanses the vineyard and sets his house in order. I find it very likely that the most bitter branches will remain while the rest are cast out - very likely the majority of the Apostles who are in fact Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Your accusations and questions are in the very spirit of the Caiaphas and the corrupt Sanhedrin - I don't answer to you, and I certainly don't need your false accusations leveled at me. This is the Lord's church yet his watchmen have betrayed the written word just as prophesied by Joseph Smith, Isaiah 28, D&C 101 and elsewhere. There are many prophecies about this stumbling just before the OMAS stands up and sets the house in order. Those who can't see past themselves while assessing this situation will be stuck while those who learn to receive directly from the Holy Ghost - just as President Nelson prophesied - will survive spiritually what's coming and see what's what and, more importantly, who's who.

I like this response and it’s pretty much in line with what I’ve received from the Holy Ghost, except that I am to wait within the church for what’s to come.

As for equating me with Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin, that would be something if I had some authority and was seeking to persecute you. You get me totally wrong! I have no authority and don’t seek to persecute you. I am trying to understand your position. What you’ve said above about “true apostles” makes it appear as though you do sustain some of the brethren. If that’s true then you and I are not too different except that I will withhold my judgement on who stands on which side of the divide until the Lord executes judgement. I sustain them, yes, but I am suspect of some of them too.

Now, unless you have aught to correct in the preceding, could you please answer my question about the removal of the Holy Ghost from the scriptures that you’ve mentioned? Also, I attempted to show by the scriptures previously that the Father resurrected the Son, not the Holy Ghost. You never answered my linguistic proofs on that head. Also, could you explain how it is that the godhead (or something of them) is incorporated into the seven angels?

We won’t get far without charity. I’m sorry for writing so harshly to you in the past. I feel a brotherly love for you and my concerns sometimes rise to a fever pitch of passions. I will do better and try to be less accusatory in my language. It is not becoming of disciples of the lamb!

[Robbinius]

So recently my mind has been open to a slightly different interpretation of Zechariah 4 with the seven candlesticks connected to a large bowl above by golden pipes. I believe the bowl represents the Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Alaris has spoken of this vision quite a bit. We have always equated the large bowl to Jehovah, from whom all blessings and wisdom flow. While I completely believe Jehovah is the source of these things, I don’t believe He is the bowl on top of the candlesticks. I believe this is the eighth angel / Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost who tastes the powers of the world to come by sitting in the top spot for this world. He would receive the oil from Jehovah, and the archangels who are more advanced than the Davidic Servant, voluntarily submit to the fall and become subject TO the Davidic Servant.

Where is this coming from? Three places.

• The Spirit recently whispered it to me

• Since that whispering, the Spirit has shown me this exact tutoring happening by showing me archangels in the flesh being tutored directly by the Davidic Servant

• 3 Enoch 48

3 Enoch 48 lists the 70 names of Metatron. One of the 70 names of Metatron, or the Davidic Servant is Segansakkiel, the Prince of Wisdom. It’s a notable name that he has because it means that he has all wisdom committed to him from Jehovah.

3 Enoch 48:2 And why is he called by the name Sagnesakiel? Because all the treasuries of wisdom are committed in his hand.

The 7 angels in front of him learn the treasures of wisdom from him. Notice in Zechariah 4 the pipes from the bowl to each of the candlesticks. They receive through the pipes from the bowl. This pattern is shown in the very next verse of 3 Enoch 48 where it tells the story of Moses learning all manner of mysteries from the DS.

[Alaris]

So recently my mind has been open to a slightly different interpretation of Zechariah 4 with the seven candlesticks connected to a large bowl above by golden pipes. I believe the bowl represents the Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Alaris has spoken of this vision quite a bit. We have always equated the large bowl to Jehovah, from whom all blessings and wisdom flow. While I completely believe Jehovah is the source of these things, I don’t believe He is the bowl on top of the candlesticks. I believe this is the eighth angel / Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost who tastes the powers of the world to come by sitting in the top spot for this world. He would receive the oil from Jehovah, and the archangels who are more advanced than the Davidic Servant, voluntarily submit to the fall and become subject TO the Davidic Servant.

Where is this coming from? Three places.

• The Spirit recently whispered it to me

• Since that whispering, the Spirit has shown me this exact tutoring happening by showing me archangels in the flesh being tutored directly by the Davidic Servant

• 3 Enoch 48

3 Enoch 48 lists the 70 names of Metatron. One of the 70 names of Metatron, or the Davidic Servant is Segansakkiel, the Prince of Wisdom. It’s a notable name that he has because it means that he has all wisdom committed to him from Jehovah.

3 Enoch 48:2 And why is he called by the name Sagnesakiel? Because all the treasuries of wisdom are committed in his hand.

The 7 angels in front of him learn the treasures of wisdom from him. Notice in Zechariah 4 the pipes from the bowl to each of the candlesticks. They receive through the pipes from the bowl. This pattern is shown in the very next verse of 3 Enoch 48 where it tells the story of Moses learning all manner of mysteries from the DS.

I know we've been talking about much of this offline, but John sort of came out and said this already (lol)

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Who is the God of the Earth? Well it's Michael / Adam, but he stepped down. Jesus said so. You can take that to the gates of heaven.

Peter asks ...

"Now therefore, O my Lord, we wish Thee to inform us concerning the day wherein Thou didst stablish Abbatôn, the Angel of Death, and didst make him to be awful and disturbing, and to pursue all souls until they yield up their spirits, so that we may preach concerning him to all mankind"

Jesus answers ...

'O ye whom I have chosen from out of the whole world, I will hide nothing from you, but I will inform you how My Father stablished him (i.e. Abbatôn) over all the created things which He had made.

The context of the creation is given next where this Earth is created, the 8th angel brings the materials to make Adam, and Adam is seated upon the throne of this world. The devil refuses and falls and then tempts Adam and Eve ... Adam falls and the fall causes Adam to be unseated.

'And when Adam heard these things he became very sad, and shed many tears both by day and by night. And My Father said unto Mouriêl (Abaddon) the angel, "Behold, the man whom I created in My image hath transgressed the commandment which I gave him. He hath eaten of the tree, and hath brought a great injury upon all mankind. For this reason I make thee king over him, for it was thou who didst bring him to Me on this day, which is the thirteenth of the month Hathor.

I realize this is a new paradigm but on my soul this is the true account of the creation. Adam fell that "Man" may be and man is the offspring of God. This is how Gods are made worlds without end.

----


https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

[Alaris]

Zechariah 4:11 ¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Lord - אֲד֥וֹן -’ă-ḏō-wn

of all - כָּל־ - kāl

the Earth - הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - hā-’ā-reṣ


אֲד֥וֹן / ă-ḏō-wn is the same "Lord" in Malachi 3:1

https://biblehub.com/text/malachi/3-1.htm

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

[Alaris]

I've been writing commentary on Ascension of Isaiah and the second section of 1 Enoch called "The Parables."

I found an amazing connection between the "first parable" (chapters 37-44) and Abraham 3. Stars & orders are both taught to Enoch and Abraham in the context of the Holy Ghost (Elect One.)

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... er-43.html

[Alaris]

Ascension of Isaiah Chapter 4 is an incredible - incredible confirmation of many of the truths discussed here in regards to the OG 12, the mark of the beast, and the truth that the voice of the Lord is the end times Davidic King. I mean - what are the chances we have yet another another another (x? I lost count) scripture that has come to light after Joseph Smith's death that confirms all these truths?

THIS is the watchtower. The brethren haven't laid one brick in ... how many years? Ever looking backwards without believing the foundation revealed through Joseph Smith that there are mysteries to be found and all we must do is seek them.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... ter-4.html

[BeNotDeceived]

Archangel Michael Defeating Satan

satan-u2 HighSpy

search.php?keywords=3838 strikes again.

Apropos, but not unexpected.