Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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tmac
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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marc wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:26 am
tmac wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:01 am Rob Smith mentioned it in the video, but only vaguely referenced prophesies, etc., when briefly discussing the perceived advantage of being in the Rocky Mountains. So, although I have asked this question elsewhere, I am again seeking input about what actual strategic advantage the mountains provide. Thoughts?
My guess would be cleaner air with higher elevations, less chances of floodwaters reaching higher elevations, etc. We're more conditioned to higher elevations and have stronger lungs than those living closer to sea level.
Good points. When I was in military basic training at about 900' elevation, my drill sergeants and I were both surprised at how much better and longer I could run, compared to what I was used to here in the West at about 6000'. But, as I considered the video and inundation maps that Silver Pie shared, protection against massive flooding and inundation appeared to be the single biggest possible strategic advantage of living at higher elevation, surrounded by mountains. Just curious if there is some kind of reasonable explanation for other possible strategic advantage(s)?
Last edited by tmac on February 25th, 2023, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fred
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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tmac wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:30 am
Fred wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:18 am For those wanting cheap property in east Arizona. See http://www.witchwellestates.com/ His name is Ron. He has a hundred or so properties. I sold him my place when I left. I had 20 acres. The land is between St Johns and Sanders. The only commercial establishment is the Witch Well Tavern. A lot of Zuni customers as alcohol is not allowed on the res. It is desert, but there are many artesian springs. The cows know where they all are. Open range.
I actually think that particular area is pretty interesting, and overlooked by most people. In terms of a multitude of considerations, including climate, price, etc., I definitely think it's worth a look. At this stage of my life, I definitely think I would rather be there than most places in Montana or the Dakotas. And, to be completely honest, the landscape is not all that unlike the Dakotas. Probably the biggest reason most people have not considered it is because they have never been there. On my end, though, I consider Navajo and Apache Counties, Arizona to be the SW American Redoubt -- with a whole, whole lot more sunshine!
I lived there off-grid for over 10 years. But when I got sober with just a year under my belt. My fishing buddy and his wife decided it would be funny to break my sobriety. So one hundred degree day, they came by with an ice cold cooler full of Bud. My wife and daughter had been gone for 11 months getting a liver transplant and I was alone and took a drink. Then I was drunk every day after just like before. It made me so mad I left and moved to Utah where nobody would ever bring me a beer. Now I have 20 years of sobriety and couldn't be forced to take a drink.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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tmac wrote: February 24th, 2023, 6:30 pm there is no perfect place or perfect location. At this point, I'm more interested in just trying to figure out where God wants me to be, regardless of imperfections of all kinds, and what He wants me to be doing. If I can just figure that out, I have to have faith that He'll fill-in the rest of the gaps.
This is the point I have finally reached. I've told him where I would like to be, but the reality is up to him. He can protect any place.

I, also, would prefer to be in one of the places that map shows as safe. I think the Graham County area it shows is probably Mt. Graham. Anyway, at this point, only God can move me anyway, so I hope it's a place I will love.

Had I a ton of money, though, I would look between Show Low and the New Mexico border, even though I'd prefer a warmer place. (Maybe it's good that I'm totally dependent on God for a place to move to. Lol)

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Cruiserdude wrote: February 24th, 2023, 7:24 pm You've gotta be tough to live in Wyoming. 💪
It definitely makes a person tough. When I first moved here, I thought 55° was cold. Now I think 35° and above is warm. 😆

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Fred wrote: February 24th, 2023, 8:19 pm I suggested a line straight north from Witch Well, Arizona. That line borders Utah and Colorado. You are probably closer to Idaho Falls or Logan. Not the area that inherits the earth. There will likely be survivors all over, but inside the Rocky Mountains has abundant protection and resources.
I'll have to look that up on a map. I do want to avoid the Navajo reservation because that's their land not ours.

Yes, Logan is only a couple of hours away from here, I think.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Great8 wrote: February 24th, 2023, 10:35 pm We 'inspirationally' bought a small property in Star Valley, WY. Never had been there beforehand. Felt impressed. We learned after buying it that it butts up against the national forest so free roaming if xxxx hits the fan.....we just need to find a reliable builder...
That part of Wyoming is probably the warmest part. I don't know if I've been there more than when I was a teenager, but it seems like it was a nice area. (Right now, with the highs being 20 or more degrees below normal, heat is uppermost in my mind. Lol Even when the temps are normal, our winter electric bills are way too close to what we pay for rent!)

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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tmac wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:01 am Rob Smith mentioned it in the video, but only vaguely referenced prophesies, etc., when briefly discussing the perceived advantage of being in the Rocky Mountains. So, although I have asked this question elsewhere, I am again seeking input about what actual strategic advantage the mountains provide. Thoughts?
The only advantage I see is the Suspicious Observers map (YouTube) of the expected inundation if the earth's mantle shifts. Since the map I was able to capture doesn't include tsunamis, some of the "safe" places on it (like in California) might not be safe at all. Places like the Rocky Mountains look safest.

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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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I’m listening to a rammed-earth construction video and the guy mentioned that he was visiting with a Bali tribesman and he said that every time a young couple marries, the community comes together and builds them a home. They begin their married life w/o debt. How did I miss this lesson in Primary?

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Fred wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:18 am For those wanting cheap property in east Arizona. See http://www.witchwellestates.com/ His name is Ron. He has a hundred or so properties. I sold him my place when I left. I had 20 acres. The land is between St Johns and Sanders. The only commercial establishment is the Witch Well Tavern. A lot of Zuni customers as alcohol is not allowed on the res. It is desert, but there are many artesian springs. The cows know where they all are. Open range.
That looks like one of the areas I looked at a few years ago (before I moved to Wyoming). Had I the funds, I might buy a thousand acres there - if I could drill a well and get artesian/spring water (no need for a pump). However, my dd would refuse because she wants to live close to a city or large town.

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tmac
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Story time.

I know that I have shared the gist of this story elsewhere here on LDSFF (perhaps multiple times), but like SP, Fred, and others, this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. So much so that it has essentially been the tail that has wagged the dog for much of the past 20+ years of my life. Consequently, I have expended an immense amount of time and resources based on that paradigm, including acquisition and development of over 100 acres of the best property I could find (and afford), which had a good year-round creek, 30 acres of woods, productive, irrigable farm ground, etc., and we have worked continually to improve and develop it with a well, state of the art pressurized irrigation system, and multiple structures, etc. And I fully acknowledge the hand of the Lord in all things. We have been richly blessed in so many ways, and I don’t even know why.

But, I have still always been looking for an even better place/location/community. For whatever reason, though, despite extensive effort(s), that has never happened. So, at some point, I essentially gave up on that idea, and concluded that if that wasn’t going to happen, we would just keep improving this place.

But by now, after 20+ years have passed, my single biggest concern that has developed is about the extent to which the character of this small rural TBM (increasingly consumption-oriented) community has changed in the past 20+ years, to the point that I am no longer comfortable with the status quo in that regard.

So then I embarked on an effort to acquire even more land, and to recruit more, new, capable “like-minded” people, and offer an opportunity to participate in a new, production-oriented intentional community. But, despite my fairly extensive efforts, that went nowhere. No one seemed to be interested. So, then we decided to just sell-out, and try harder to find and relocate into a “better” community, even if we had to make some sacrifices property-wise. But so far that effort likewise seems to not have the Lord’s blessing either, even as I have been successfully marketing other agricultural property from my parents’ estate, with the Lord’s apparent blessing (so I can clearly see the difference).

Anyway, I really liked especially the first part of Rob Smith’s video that Marc shared, because it seemed to really underscore what I seem to have been experiencing. So, regardless of all other possible property considerations, etc., the biggest challenge for me seems to be figuring out exactly where God wants me to be, and why, and what He wants me to be doing, completely trusting that He will take care of the rest. But it is still all fairly unclear to me at this point, so I just continue to flounder around, taking stabs here and there in the dark, and continually striving to understand why.
Last edited by tmac on February 25th, 2023, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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bbrown wrote: February 20th, 2023, 6:04 pm My brother has built a few geodesic domes when he is finished and the sod and such are in place you’ll hardly be able to see them if you don’t know they are there. The small ones (16’ diameter) are pretty small, but the 32’ is huge. Easy to build, no big beams or trusses just short boards, can be done by one man but it’s easier with help. Easy to heat/cool, skylights are sufficient during the day, and near invisible if you cover them with grass or something.
I’m curious, what do you cover the geodesic dome with in order to plant sod? There has to be some kind of rigid layer for the sod to go on top of.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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I really liked the idea of geodesic domes until I actually went inside one of them. It wasn't a small one, but it still gave me claustrophobia. I do like the idea that they are resistant to strong winds, even though I've never lived (and never intend to live) in tornado alley.

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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Silver Pie wrote: February 25th, 2023, 5:01 pm I really liked the idea of geodesic domes until I actually went inside one of them. It wasn't a small one, but it still gave me claustrophobia. I do like the idea that they are resistant to strong winds, even though I've never lived (and never intend to live) in tornado alley.
I believe you can connect multiples together.

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Fred
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Silver Pie wrote: February 25th, 2023, 5:01 pm I really liked the idea of geodesic domes until I actually went inside one of them. It wasn't a small one, but it still gave me claustrophobia. I do like the idea that they are resistant to strong winds, even though I've never lived (and never intend to live) in tornado alley.
The inside of a dome can be multiple floor levels and as many rooms as a square house. My friend built one in Witch Well. It is still there. He is dead. Domes are stronger than square houses, wind resistant, and cool looking.

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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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I’m curious, what do you cover the geodesic dome with in order to plant sod? There has to be some kind of rigid layer for the sod to go on top of.
[/quote]


Concrete, aircrete, foamcrete, maybe cob if you’re in a dry climate. It also depends on local codes, permitting etc. my brother will use foamcrete as there is a lot of dock foam around that is no longer allowed on the lake. It recycles easy for this and is free. The dome ghia people like aircrete which is also very good. If you’re doing it yourself those are good options. A contractor (if you can find one) will likely use concrete. Cover that with house wrap and put the soil/sod whatever on it.

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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

Post by bbrown »

Also putting windows in will make it no more claustrophobic than any regular house. You just have round outer walls.

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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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BigT wrote: February 20th, 2023, 4:34 pm We’ve been looking at southwest Missouri and haven’t seen anything close to that kind of deal. Here’s a 60-acre parcel, asking price $357K:

https://www.redfin.com/MO/Monett/Tract- ... /184161176
True, it is beautiful there. But good luck with the mosquitos. Even better, bridle them and ride 'em. 😂

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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bbrown wrote: February 25th, 2023, 7:43 pm Also putting windows in will make it no more claustrophobic than any regular house. You just have round outer walls.
Maybe the guy building the one I went into just didn't have enough windows for my comfort. He'd also made it two-story. (It was not complete, either; he was just nice enough to let us in to look at it.)

Perhaps going for the largest they make and putting more than one together like RW said might make it work for me (I really do like the idea and, from the outside, they look cool). In any case, others might not have the closed-in; walls-falling-on-you feeling I had.

Maybe, if I built one (or had one built), I could make straight inner walls and use the areas that creates for something like book cases, storage closets, etc.

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Fred
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Silver Pie wrote: February 26th, 2023, 4:30 pm
bbrown wrote: February 25th, 2023, 7:43 pm Also putting windows in will make it no more claustrophobic than any regular house. You just have round outer walls.
Maybe the guy building the one I went into just didn't have enough windows for my comfort. He'd also made it two-story. (It was not complete, either; he was just nice enough to let us in to look at it.)

Perhaps going for the largest they make and putting more than one together like RW said might make it work for me (I really do like the idea and, from the outside, they look cool). In any case, others might not have the closed-in; walls-falling-on-you feeling I had.

Maybe, if I built one (or had one built), I could make straight inner walls and use the areas that creates for something like book cases, storage closets, etc.
There is no such thing as the largest one they make. You make them whatever size you want. There are no limits. There are different designs though.
Almost all Geodesic Domes are based on the Icosahedron.
Dodecahedron.
Octahedron.
Tetrahedron.

Here is everything you want to know about domes: http://www.domerama.com/

They have calculators to determine the length of each strut. You design it before you build it. Just like any house. And like any house, there are no size limits.
domes.png
domes.png (190.87 KiB) Viewed 397 times

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Being There
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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as I said many years ago.

So for all of you who are preparing and working
so so hard to get all your things ready to survive -
and while I do agree with leaving Babylon, both * first spiritually and literally,
moving out of the cities and off the grid and away from the ways of the World,
and doing some prepping and planning for what's to come -
IT REALLY WON'T MATTER ***
BECAUSE -
There's only 1 survival plan
JESUS CHRIST



* The spirit is all that matters. Matthew 6:33 33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you. "
If we are seeking God and listening to the still small voice, His spirit , it will teach us every thing we need to know.
Where to go and what to do, and to be prepared with getting things ready, if that's his will. John 3:8 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Jesus never taught about temporal things. It was always - "Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? " Matthew 6:25 25
Brothers and Sisters lets seek God 1st , and his spirit to be with us and he will guide and tell us what things we should do.


***
a tenth of a tenth survive the tribulations
Isaiah 6

12 For Jehovah will drive men away,
and great shall be the exodus
from the centers of the land.
13 And while yet a tenth of the people
remain in it, or return,
they shall be burned.
But like the terebinth or the oak
when it is felled, whose stump remains alive,
so shall the holy offspring be what is left standing.

Although people may flee the cities en mass in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment,
they find scant refuge in the countryside (Isaiah 5:30; 8:22).
Using the imagery of tithing—in which the Israelites pay a tenth of the land’s yield to the Levites and the Levites pay a tenth of that tenth to the priests (Numbers 18:24-28)—Isaiah contrasts the many who perish with the few who survive.
The “holy offspring” left standing—a tenth of the tenth—compares to a terebinth or oak that can renew itself when cut down. The one who fells the tree/s is the king of Assyria/Babylon, Jehovah’s axe and saw (Isaiah 10:15; 37:24).

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Being There
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Being There wrote: February 27th, 2023, 8:45 am as I said many years ago.

So for all of you who are preparing and working
so so hard to get all your things ready to survive -
and while I do agree with leaving Babylon, both * first spiritually and literally,
moving out of the cities and off the grid and away from the ways of the World,
and doing some prepping and planning for what's to come -
IT REALLY WON'T MATTER ***
BECAUSE -
There's only 1 survival plan
JESUS CHRIST



* The spirit is all that matters. Matthew 6:33 33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you. "
If we are seeking God and listening to the still small voice, His spirit , it will teach us every thing we need to know.
Where to go and what to do, and to be prepared with getting things ready, if that's his will. John 3:8 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Jesus never taught about temporal things. It was always - "Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? " Matthew 6:25 25
Brothers and Sisters lets seek God 1st , and his spirit to be with us and he will guide and tell us what things we should do.


***
a tenth of a tenth survive the tribulations
Isaiah 6

12 For Jehovah will drive men away,
and great shall be the exodus
from the centers of the land.
13 And while yet a tenth of the people
remain in it, or return,
they shall be burned.
But like the terebinth or the oak
when it is felled, whose stump remains alive,
so shall the holy offspring be what is left standing.

Although people may flee the cities en mass in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment,
they find scant refuge in the countryside (Isaiah 5:30; 8:22).
Using the imagery of tithing—in which the Israelites pay a tenth of the land’s yield to the Levites and the Levites pay a tenth of that tenth to the priests (Numbers 18:24-28)—Isaiah contrasts the many who perish with the few who survive.
The “holy offspring” left standing—a tenth of the tenth—compares to a terebinth or oak that can renew itself when cut down. The one who fells the tree/s is the king of Assyria/Babylon, Jehovah’s axe and saw (Isaiah 10:15; 37:24).
I fear that it will take much much more to survive and make it to Zion
than the things we think we need to get ready and take with us !

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

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Being There wrote: February 27th, 2023, 10:15 am I fear that it will take much much more to survive and make it to Zion
than the things we think we need to get ready and take with us !
The backbone surely must be on true principles, but Lehi took provisions w/ him. Hagoth built a ship to find new lands. No place is safe if we are not willing to care for those in need.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

tmac wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:36 am Just curious if there is some kind of reasonable explanation for other possible strategic advantage(s)?
Here a few that I've been thinking about; though, keep in mind, some may only be applicable in rarer scenarios.

1. More difficult travel -- perhaps a deterrent, especially in those locations where those mountains are surrounded by desert and badlands, and only presenting seasonal windows of potential travel

2. Leeward blast shielding -- whether from some neighboring region's volcano or some other cataclysmic wind forces (if you know where it will be coming from)

3. Offers the same protection to wildlife as #2, AKA. food. And due to #1, perhaps these resources will receive less pressure than area's that are easier to get into.

4. Tornados -- while it can be rare to see a tornado formed in some large mountain valley, the irregular wind patterns caused by mountains can significantly reduce the risk

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

Post by Silver Pie »

Wow! I never thought of it like that. I guess I was thinking of the kits I've seen (this was a good 20 or more years ago). The images intrigue me. I see one I would like to try.

As big as I want, eh?

P.S. I neglected to give my opinion on your "friends". As the saying goes, with friends like those, who needs enemies? :( I'm glad you got away from them.
Fred wrote: February 26th, 2023, 7:51 pm There is no such thing as the largest one they make. You make them whatever size you want. There are no limits. There are different designs though.
Almost all Geodesic Domes are based on the Icosahedron.
Dodecahedron.
Octahedron.
Tetrahedron.

Here is everything you want to know about domes: http://www.domerama.com/

They have calculators to determine the length of each strut. You design it before you build it. Just like any house. And like any house, there are no size limits.

domes.png

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Silver Pie
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Re: Where would you start looking for off grid property?

Post by Silver Pie »

Being There wrote: February 27th, 2023, 8:45 am as I said many years ago.

So for all of you who are preparing and working
so so hard to get all your things ready to survive -
I just love the idea of living in the boonies, self-sufficiently. It's in the core of my make-up. I noticed it at girls camp when I was ~13. It appeals to me. It attracts me. It speaks to the innermost depths of my soul.


And I absolutely do agree with you that the only real safety is in Christ. He can keep us safe no matter where we are if that is his desire.

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