Temple Endowment Changes
- LDS Physician
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1812
Temple Endowment Changes
I'm hearing from relatives who attended today that there are "13 minutes" of changes in the temple endowment. I'd love to hear if anyone has seen them or know what they are specifically?
- Chip
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7909
- Location: California
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Creator found this on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... t_changes/
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... t_changes/
The endowment starts with a message from the first presidency about the adjustments. The video starts with a picture of Jesus. Images of Jesus and references to Jesus now appear throughout the endowment.
There is a new intro that explains the 5 covenants prior to inviting people to leave or stay. The narrator voice is accompanied by soft music.
There is no witness couple; Adam and Eve play that role on the big screen.
- BigT
- captain of 100
- Posts: 737
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Not much else on the Reddit thread so far. Doesn’t sound like a big deal (so far). Actually sounds somewhat positive. .
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- captain of 10
- Posts: 43
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I thought that these ordinances were eternal and unchanging. We are taught that every must have these ordinances or they cannot be saved. Isaiah condemns those that "change the ordinances." Honest question, why do the dead need these ordinances to change? If 99% of the work is for the dead, why do they need the ordinances to change?
Once again, where is the declaration of revelation? We are told about "adjustments." Maybe we need a book of "adjustments" added to the end of the D&C. Humm.....That is not the same as receiving revelation. Adjustments are "almost revelations."
I'm sorry to sound so disgruntled. I truly want Adjustments come from committees. We are total these adjustments are part of the on going "Restoration." But, we are never told about actual revelation. We are told they are PSRs and asked to sustain them as such. But, there is no prophesying, seeing, or revealing.
Once again, where is the declaration of revelation? We are told about "adjustments." Maybe we need a book of "adjustments" added to the end of the D&C. Humm.....That is not the same as receiving revelation. Adjustments are "almost revelations."
I'm sorry to sound so disgruntled. I truly want Adjustments come from committees. We are total these adjustments are part of the on going "Restoration." But, we are never told about actual revelation. We are told they are PSRs and asked to sustain them as such. But, there is no prophesying, seeing, or revealing.
- Mindfields
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1867
- Location: Utah
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
They, the church, can change the endowment all they want. It doesn't make it any truer, any more meaningful, and it's still NOT required for salvation. ( Mormon Exaltation is not a thing)
- Mindfields
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1867
- Location: Utah
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Focus groups, questionnaires, and trial runs are the new revelatory techniques used by the church.Free_Man wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 2:06 pm I thought that these ordinances were eternal and unchanging. We are taught that every must have these ordinances or they cannot be saved. Isaiah condemns those that "change the ordinances." Honest question, why do the dead need these ordinances to change? If 99% of the work is for the dead, why do they need the ordinances to change?
Once again, where is the declaration of revelation? We are told about "adjustments." Maybe we need a book of "adjustments" added to the end of the D&C. Humm.....That is not the same as receiving revelation. Adjustments are "almost revelations."
I'm sorry to sound so disgruntled. I truly want Adjustments come from committees. We are total these adjustments are part of the on going "Restoration." But, we are never told about actual revelation. We are told they are PSRs and asked to sustain them as such. But, there is no prophesying, seeing, or revealing.
- Robin Hood
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13109
- Location: England
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
From the description so far, it appears the changes are all about presentation of the endowment. The presentation is not the ordinance.
- HereWeGo
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1220
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Here is what I know so far about today’s temple changes.
*There’s a new intro that adds in the premortal life.
*There is no live witness couple. Adam and Eve now do what the witness couple did. They receive the signs and tokens now.
*Some of the symbols are explained.
*All instructions, including the veil teachings, are now prerecorded. The live ordinance worker is no longer part of anything other than the prayer circle and the last part at the veil.
*There are changes in wording that match what is in the updated temple prep and missionary lessons.
*The session is about 1 1/2 hours now which 10 minutes longer than before.
*The male ordinance worker no longer does anything other than sit and press buttons as needed until the live prayer circle is performed.
*The endowment now focuses on the Savior and covenants. There is more context with revised wording in various places.
*There’s a longer intro and everything is now automated.
*There’s a new intro that adds in the premortal life.
*There is no live witness couple. Adam and Eve now do what the witness couple did. They receive the signs and tokens now.
*Some of the symbols are explained.
*All instructions, including the veil teachings, are now prerecorded. The live ordinance worker is no longer part of anything other than the prayer circle and the last part at the veil.
*There are changes in wording that match what is in the updated temple prep and missionary lessons.
*The session is about 1 1/2 hours now which 10 minutes longer than before.
*The male ordinance worker no longer does anything other than sit and press buttons as needed until the live prayer circle is performed.
*The endowment now focuses on the Savior and covenants. There is more context with revised wording in various places.
*There’s a longer intro and everything is now automated.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2711
- Location: Canada
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
It appears that there are no witness couples anymore. I know from previous sessions that I've been in here in Canada that they don't like to use witness couples that aren't married. Only as a last resort. I've had to do it a few times and I'm not married because there just wasn't any married couple available.
With more and more of the population being unmarried, it's going to be a bigger issue going forward. People just can't afford to get married anymore and it seems the churches and governments are finally realizing that fact. Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
With more and more of the population being unmarried, it's going to be a bigger issue going forward. People just can't afford to get married anymore and it seems the churches and governments are finally realizing that fact. Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
- Sarah
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6702
- ransomme
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4013
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I experienced it today.
It will be somewhat more clear for first timers and those who never understood much.
There are more references to Christ and the Atonement, and coming to the veil.
Not much difference in length.
It will be somewhat more clear for first timers and those who never understood much.
There are more references to Christ and the Atonement, and coming to the veil.
Not much difference in length.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7016
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Sure hope Initiatory hasn’t become ‘automated’!
What happens should reliable electricity become unreliable or even gone? Will we remember? Will knowledge be retained? Will ‘hard copies’ exist?
I’m having a hard time getting my ‘ministering’ assignments because I’m at least 3 operating systems behind on my computer & have no ‘apps’ on my phone. NO TOOLs!
I look forward to the future. The reality we now share does not seem sustainable.
What happens should reliable electricity become unreliable or even gone? Will we remember? Will knowledge be retained? Will ‘hard copies’ exist?
I’m having a hard time getting my ‘ministering’ assignments because I’m at least 3 operating systems behind on my computer & have no ‘apps’ on my phone. NO TOOLs!
I look forward to the future. The reality we now share does not seem sustainable.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
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Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Unfortunately, none of this has to do with the oaths you make to follow these men in order to get in the door. The phrase "appearance" of righteousness comes to mind.
- pho·to·syn·the·sis
- captain of 100
- Posts: 683
- Location: Close to Faraway
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13997
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
It's not a lie unfortunately. When you factor in all the costs of raising a child, it's considerable. The savings are in sharing a homepho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
The destruction of community and the extended family has all contributed to the rising costs.
- Reluctant Watchman
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I think we've convinced ourselves of what a "typical" standard of living looks like. It doesn't need to look like that. But that comes with less amenities.Niemand wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:13 pmIt's not a lie unfortunately. When you factor in all the costs of raising a child, it's considerable. The savings are in sharing a homepho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
The destruction of community and the extended family has all contributed to the rising costs.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13997
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
If you try and raise your children at the level that I remember several decades ago, you'd likely have them taken off you by the state. At least round here.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:18 pmI think we've convinced ourselves of what a "typical" standard of living looks like. It doesn't need to look like that. But that comes with less amenities.Niemand wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:13 pmIt's not a lie unfortunately. When you factor in all the costs of raising a child, it's considerable. The savings are in sharing a homepho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
The destruction of community and the extended family has all contributed to the rising costs.
- pho·to·syn·the·sis
- captain of 100
- Posts: 683
- Location: Close to Faraway
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Can it be more expensive, than if you are single? sure.Niemand wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:13 pmIt's not a lie unfortunately. When you factor in all the costs of raising a child, it's considerable. The savings are in sharing a homepho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
The destruction of community and the extended family has all contributed to the rising costs.
I still find it a lie.
Last edited by pho·to·syn·the·sis on February 7th, 2023, 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1186
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Every time I read how much they say it costs per child to raise till their 18 I think, "gee only a millionaire could do that". The numbers are way inflated. Is it super inexpensive to raise a family? No. But it's not crazy expensive either. My husband and I have 5 kids, I am a SAHM. My husband has never had a high paying job, but we always have provided for our kids.pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:23 pmCan it be more expensive, than if you are single? sure.Niemand wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:13 pmIt's not a lie unfortunately. When you factor in all the costs of raising a child, it's considerable. The savings are in sharing a homepho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
The destruction of community and the extended family has all contributed to the rising costs.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2711
- Location: Canada
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Canada has one of the highest cost of living in the world currently. Americans would be shocked at the price differences. When you try to tell someone that a 1 bedroom apartment now costs $2000-2500 a month with utilities and food on top of that, they think it's a lie. That's after some of the highest taxes in the world. Americans would be shocked how much Canada has collapsed since COVID.pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
Last edited by Sunain on February 7th, 2023, 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- TheDuke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5862
- Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Interesting. I have much faith the Lord and what he tells me. In late 1999 I was looking at a cabin in Utah or Id or Co. The Lord told me that my "refuge" would be in Canada in the Okanogan valley. Then came COVID and Trudeau........ Now, I must admit I am questioning the Lord for the first time ever!Sunain wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 6:43 pm Americans would be shocked how much Canada has collapsed since COVID.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2711
- Location: Canada
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I live in BC. In the event that you would need to go to a refuge, the Okanogan valley is still a good location. Isolated from most the major population centers in North America yet beneficial to grow food almost year round. One of the only places in Canada where you can do that. Trust in the Lord, if that's where he has told you to go, don't second guess the prompting from the spirit! Who knows, you might see a fellow wanderer in the wilderness there!TheDuke wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 6:52 pm Interesting. I have much faith the Lord and what he tells me. In late 1999 I was looking at a cabin in Utah or Id or Co. The Lord told me that my "refuge" would be in Canada in the Okanogan valley. Then came COVID and Trudeau........ Now, I must admit I am questioning the Lord for the first time ever!
- TheDuke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5862
- Location: Eastern Sodom Suburbs
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
thanks, I was sarcastic about the "not trusting the Lord" part. The real issue is that the location is with the family of my former spouse, and that is way complicated (Oliver BC on Inkameep Band Reserve). My wife would divorce me before letting us move there...................... unless the tribulations make things much different in the near future.Sunain wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 6:55 pmI live in BC. In the event that you would need to go to a refuge, the Okanogan valley is still a good location. Isolated from most the major population centers in North America yet beneficial to grow food almost year round. One of the only places in Canada where you can do that. Trust in the Lord, if that's where he has told you to go, don't second guess the prompting from the spirit! Who knows, you might see a fellow wanderer in the wilderness there!TheDuke wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 6:52 pm Interesting. I have much faith the Lord and what he tells me. In late 1999 I was looking at a cabin in Utah or Id or Co. The Lord told me that my "refuge" would be in Canada in the Okanogan valley. Then came COVID and Trudeau........ Now, I must admit I am questioning the Lord for the first time ever!
- pho·to·syn·the·sis
- captain of 100
- Posts: 683
- Location: Close to Faraway
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
I live on a border state. They remind me how expensive things are. What is interesting is, that nations that are "touted" as the safest, most prosperous and socially advanced in the history of the world, are not conducive to traditional vibrant family. You would think the opposite would be true. It is a phenomenon I find interesting. This appears to be similar in Scandinavian countries.Sunain wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 6:43 pmCanada has one of the highest cost of living in the world currently. Americans would be shocked at the price differences. When you try to tell someone that a 1 bedroom apartment now costs $2000-2500 a month with utilities and food on top of that, they think it's a lie. That's after some of the highest taxes in the world. Americans would be shocked how much Canada has collapsed since COVID.pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑February 7th, 2023, 4:07 pmI have to disagree with this sentiment. Another misnomer/ or lie to discourage family.Families cost a LOT of money unfortunately.
What constitutes "a lot of money"? I'm sure the answer varies from person-to-person.
I'm sure Canadian fertility would be closer to 1, if it wasn't for immigration.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71 ... 03-eng.htm
- BuriedTartaria
- Captain of Tartary
- Posts: 1904
Re: Temple Endowment Changes
Didn't Watchmen say to look out for changes on 02/07? I love that guy. Fiery warrior for the truth