Jesus the Christ

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lundbaek
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Jesus the Christ

Post by lundbaek »

Can anybody explain why Jesus is usually known and spoken of as Jesus Christ, and on only rare occasions as Jesus the Christ?

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Luke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Luke »

English language strangeness.

Jesus Messiah

Jesus the Messiah

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John Tavner
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by John Tavner »

I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one" (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"

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Luke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Luke »

John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:29 am I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"
Other languages, like Hebrew, don’t use the word “the”. They just say the noun.

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John Tavner
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by John Tavner »

Luke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:31 am
John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:29 am I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"
Other languages, like Hebrew, don’t use the word “the”. They just say the noun.
It would have been greek ( Christ is greek, not Hebrew)- but you could be right. I didn't care to look into it too much though I thought greek did use articles... though ancient greek might have been different.

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Luke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Luke »

John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:33 am
Luke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:31 am
John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:29 am I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"
Other languages, like Hebrew, don’t use the word “the”. They just say the noun.
It would have been greek- but you could be right. I didn't care to look into it too much.
True. Hebrew actually does use the word “the” I think, i.e. Yeshua HaMashiach. I’m no expert though.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by BeNotDeceived »

John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:29 am I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one" (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"
Prolly

Church of March 8 Miracle

Becomes

Church of the Christ Miracle.❗️

as per march8miracle.org

Autocomplete is catching on. 8-)

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TheDuke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by TheDuke »

just to add to the confusion, Bro of J, heard "I am Jesus Christ". 3000 years before the Greek term Christ was coined. I think there is fairly wide "editors" leeway in all the wording, expect perhaps direct revelation, untouched, re-edited, re-translated; which is very few verses and none anciently and perhaps D&C and PofGP today.

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Chip
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Chip »

Some high-ups like to say over the rameumpton, "I testify that Jesus is The Christ."

That's like the biggest freebee nothing burger, ever, that's supposed to wow people with the amazing spirituality of the speaker. I mean who contests that? The Jews, only? Why is that even a thing? Saying that to Christians is like telling someone, "I testify that water is wet." Big whoop. You're amazing. Next.

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gkearney
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by gkearney »

All I have to say is that something had better happen on March 8th. Of course you never specify the year so you'll have an out if nothing does happen.

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TheDuke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by TheDuke »

gkearney wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:35 am All I have to say is that something had better happen on March 8th. Of course you never specify the year so you'll have an out if nothing does happen.
Prolly

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Niemand
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Niemand »

For the same reason that the scriptures talk about Christ Jesus and also Jesus Christ.

Christ is just the Greek for Messiah, which both mean "anointed one."

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Niemand
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Niemand »

Luke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:35 am
John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:33 am
Luke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:31 am
John Tavner wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:29 am I think, and I could be wrong (about "the", but I'm pretty sure Christ means "the anointed one (including "the") So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed one" Jesus the Christ means "Jesus the the anointed one"
Other languages, like Hebrew, don’t use the word “the”. They just say the noun.
It would have been greek- but you could be right. I didn't care to look into it too much.
True. Hebrew actually does use the word “the” I think, i.e. Yeshua HaMashiach. I’m no expert though.
Hebrew frequently uses definite articles in the middle of constructions where English wouldn't normally. This kind of construction is common in both Celtic and Semitic languages, but not in English, which is very curious.

Latin does not have the definite article at all, and some of our religious terminology is highly influenced by that language, because of the long term presence of the Church of Rome, the use of the Vulgate Bible etc.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by BeNotDeceived »

TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 2:38 pm
gkearney wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:35 am All I have to say is that something had better happen on March 8th. Of course you never specify the year so you'll have an out if nothing does happen.
Prolly
See the first sentence

and the final picture at march8miracle.org.❗️

Capisce. :?:

. . . * . . . . . . . .**

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TheDuke
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by TheDuke »

BeNotDeceived wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 3:56 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 2:38 pm
gkearney wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:35 am All I have to say is that something had better happen on March 8th. Of course you never specify the year so you'll have an out if nothing does happen.
Prolly
See the first sentence

and the final picture at march8miracle.org.❗️

Capisce. :?:

. . . * . . . . . . . .**
Honestly, I usually cannot follow your posts as I don't speak your same language. I use sentences, etc... But, in this case I had to say "prolly' because my youngest says it all the time and it made me think of him.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by BeNotDeceived »

TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:22 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 3:56 pm
TheDuke wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 2:38 pm
gkearney wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:35 am All I have to say is that something had better happen on March 8th. Of course you never specify the year so you'll have an out if nothing does happen.
Prolly
See the first sentence

and the final picture at march8miracle.org.❗️

Capisce. :?:

. . . * . . . . . . . .**
Honestly, I usually cannot follow your posts as I don't speak your same language. I use sentences, etc... But, in this case I had to say "prolly' because my youngest says it all the time and it made me think of him.
The photo above was taken at the Oklahoma City Memorial on March 8, 2002.
Not exactly rocket science.

Hopefully, you and your youngster may each find a link of interest. :)

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Being There
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Being There »

Did Jesus have a last name?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-last-name.html

We call Him “Jesus,” and sometimes we refer to Him as “Jesus Christ.” Some have mistakenly assumed that Jesus is the Lord’s first name, and that Christ is His last name.

The reality is that Christ is a title, not a name. The word Christ is transliterated from a Greek word meaning “Anointed One” or “Chosen One.” The Hebrew equivalent is the source of the word Messiah. When the Bible refers to “Jesus Christ,” it is saying that Jesus is the Chosen One of God. It’s another way of stating that Jesus is the Messiah. See 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Jude 1:1, and Revelation 1:1.

In Acts 18:5, we see a clear distinction between the name Jesus and the title the Christ: “Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus” (ESV). In other words, the subject of Paul’s preaching at that time was proving that the Messiah (the Christ) was in fact Jesus. The man called “Jesus” fulfilled the role of the Christ, as prophesied in the Law and the Prophets.

Christ is not Jesus’ last name or surname. People in those days did not have last names. Instead, they were identified in other ways, especially if they had a common name (and Jesus was a common name). Many people were identified by who their fathers were: Levi the son of Alphaeus (Mark 2:14), James the son of Zebedee (Mark 3:17), James the son of Alphaeus (verse 18), and Bartimaeus the son of Timaeus (Mark 10:46) are examples.

Other people were identified by their hometown. Jesus was often identified this way. “Jesus of Nazareth” was a common way of referring to Him (Mark 10:47; Luke 24:19; John 18:5). Others who had their hometowns or home countries attached to their names include Lucius of Cyrene (Acts 13:1), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 27:56), and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 10:4).

Still others were distinguished from people with the same name by the use of nicknames. For example, two of Jesus’ disciples were named “Simon”; Jesus gave one the nickname Peter (John 1:42), and the Bible distinguishes the other as “Simon the Zealot” (Matthew 10:4).

Jesus’ last name was not Christ, but referring to Him as “Jesus Christ” is one way to identify His mission in the world. He has many titles. The angel told Mary that He would “be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Isaiah said He would be called “Immanuel” (Isaiah 7:14). Others called Him “Son of David” (Matthew 15:22). Whatever title we use, we know that “there is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12, NLT). Jesus has been given “the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9–11, BSB).

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Niemand
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Niemand »

Being There wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:43 pm Christ is not Jesus’ last name or surname. People in those days did not have last names.
This isn't quite true. Upmarket Romans did have surnames.

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cyclOps
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by cyclOps »

Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:29 am Some high-ups like to say over the rameumpton, "I testify that Jesus is The Christ."

That's like the biggest freebee nothing burger, ever, that's supposed to wow people with the amazing spirituality of the speaker. I mean who contests that? The Jews, only? Why is that even a thing? Saying that to Christians is like telling someone, "I testify that water is wet." Big whoop. You're amazing. Next.
Are you seriously setting at nought the fact that “high-ups” testify of Jesus Christ?

What would you have them testify of instead?

So because Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ then we don’t need to testify of it or repeat it ever? It would follow that we shouldn’t testify to each other that the Book of Mormon is true or that Joseph Smith was a prophet, because… well, we all believe it. Why would we need to testify of it? How absurd.

So we should only testify to each other of things we don’t all believe?

Just because they may word it as “Jesus is the Christ” doesn’t mean they’re testifying of something as menial as “water is wet”. Testifying that Jesus is the Christ testifies that Jesus is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Messiah, the Son of God, and everything else true about Him.

Your post drips with pride. All because you want to put down the “high-ups”, and use none other than their testimony of Jesus Christ do to so.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Niemand wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:47 pm
Being There wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:43 pm Christ is not Jesus’ last name or surname. People in those days did not have last names.
This isn't quite true. Upmarket Romans did have surnames.
Judas Iscariot. :?:

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Chip
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Chip »

cyclOps wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:58 pm
Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:29 am Some high-ups like to say over the rameumpton, "I testify that Jesus is The Christ."

That's like the biggest freebee nothing burger, ever, that's supposed to wow people with the amazing spirituality of the speaker. I mean who contests that? The Jews, only? Why is that even a thing? Saying that to Christians is like telling someone, "I testify that water is wet." Big whoop. You're amazing. Next.
Are you seriously setting at nought the fact that “high-ups” testify of Jesus Christ?

What would you have them testify of instead?

So because Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ then we don’t need to testify of it or repeat it ever? It would follow that we shouldn’t testify to each other that the Book of Mormon is true or that Joseph Smith was a prophet, because… well, we all believe it. Why would we need to testify of it? How absurd.

So we should only testify to each other of things we don’t all believe?

Just because they may word it as “Jesus is the Christ” doesn’t mean they’re testifying of something as menial as “water is wet”. Testifying that Jesus is the Christ testifies that Jesus is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Messiah, the Son of God, and everything else true about Him.

Your post drips with pride. All because you want to put down the “high-ups”, and use none other than their testimony of Jesus Christ do to so.

Huh, yes, and who, for Pete's sake, might Jesus otherwise be? This is not testifying of Christ. It's pious virtue signaling. Members never wonder if Jesus was maybe an imposter, or something. It's not even something someone ventures to think about. Of course Jesus is Jesus, and Christ, and the Savior, and the Son of God, etc.

Imagine for a moment that you're a stake president, perhaps a guy who is also a hospital administrator. You've presided over both a hospital that was mistreating COVID patients and a stake where you were pushing masks and phony vaccines were being pushed. Now, you're in front of the stake members at stake conference. It's "go" time. Maybe, having been aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, you're rather lacking the spirit. What a great opener to testify that Jesus is the Christ. Sounds sophisticated. I mean, how many members ever even thought to question the notion that Jesus was the Son of God? Whoa! This is next-level stuff! We don't relate to the stake president, but he sure is advanced, isn't he? We can only marvel at our leaders. The church is amazing! Even our stake president talks like a prophet. This just PROVES we are the TRUE CHURCH.

To testify that "Jesus is the Christ" is esoteric and superfluous to most every human being, except Jews who deny Christ, but have an expectation of a deliverer. To everyone, else, it's pious nonsense.

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cyclOps
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by cyclOps »

Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 5:24 pm
cyclOps wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:58 pm
Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:29 am Some high-ups like to say over the rameumpton, "I testify that Jesus is The Christ."

That's like the biggest freebee nothing burger, ever, that's supposed to wow people with the amazing spirituality of the speaker. I mean who contests that? The Jews, only? Why is that even a thing? Saying that to Christians is like telling someone, "I testify that water is wet." Big whoop. You're amazing. Next.
Are you seriously setting at nought the fact that “high-ups” testify of Jesus Christ?

What would you have them testify of instead?

So because Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ then we don’t need to testify of it or repeat it ever? It would follow that we shouldn’t testify to each other that the Book of Mormon is true or that Joseph Smith was a prophet, because… well, we all believe it. Why would we need to testify of it? How absurd.

So we should only testify to each other of things we don’t all believe?

Just because they may word it as “Jesus is the Christ” doesn’t mean they’re testifying of something as menial as “water is wet”. Testifying that Jesus is the Christ testifies that Jesus is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Messiah, the Son of God, and everything else true about Him.

Your post drips with pride. All because you want to put down the “high-ups”, and use none other than their testimony of Jesus Christ do to so.

Huh, yes, and who, for Pete's sake, might Jesus otherwise be? This is not testifying of Christ. It's pious virtue signaling. Members never wonder if Jesus was maybe an imposter, or something. It's not even something someone ventures to think about. Of course Jesus is Jesus, and Christ, and the Savior, and the Son of God, etc.

Imagine for a moment that you're a stake president, perhaps a guy who is also a hospital administrator. You've presided over both a hospital that was mistreating COVID patients and a stake where you were pushing masks and phony vaccines were being pushed. Now, you're in front of the stake members at stake conference. It's "go" time. Maybe, having been aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, you're rather lacking the spirit. What a great opener to testify that Jesus is the Christ. Sounds sophisticated. I mean, how many members ever even thought to question the notion that Jesus was the Son of God? Whoa! This is next-level stuff! We don't relate to the stake president, but he sure is advanced, isn't he? We can only marvel at our leaders. The church is amazing! Even our stake president talks like a prophet. This just PROVES we are the TRUE CHURCH.

To testify that "Jesus is the Christ" is esoteric and superfluous to most every human being, except Jews who deny Christ, but have an expectation of a deliverer. To everyone, else, it's pious nonsense.
It’s meaningless for me to comment on your hypothetical. All I will say is… I can’t relate to you, but you sure are advanced, aren’t you?

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Chip
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Chip »

cyclOps wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 5:34 pm
Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 5:24 pm
cyclOps wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:58 pm
Chip wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:29 am Some high-ups like to say over the rameumpton, "I testify that Jesus is The Christ."

That's like the biggest freebee nothing burger, ever, that's supposed to wow people with the amazing spirituality of the speaker. I mean who contests that? The Jews, only? Why is that even a thing? Saying that to Christians is like telling someone, "I testify that water is wet." Big whoop. You're amazing. Next.
Are you seriously setting at nought the fact that “high-ups” testify of Jesus Christ?

What would you have them testify of instead?

So because Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ then we don’t need to testify of it or repeat it ever? It would follow that we shouldn’t testify to each other that the Book of Mormon is true or that Joseph Smith was a prophet, because… well, we all believe it. Why would we need to testify of it? How absurd.

So we should only testify to each other of things we don’t all believe?

Just because they may word it as “Jesus is the Christ” doesn’t mean they’re testifying of something as menial as “water is wet”. Testifying that Jesus is the Christ testifies that Jesus is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Messiah, the Son of God, and everything else true about Him.

Your post drips with pride. All because you want to put down the “high-ups”, and use none other than their testimony of Jesus Christ do to so.

Huh, yes, and who, for Pete's sake, might Jesus otherwise be? This is not testifying of Christ. It's pious virtue signaling. Members never wonder if Jesus was maybe an imposter, or something. It's not even something someone ventures to think about. Of course Jesus is Jesus, and Christ, and the Savior, and the Son of God, etc.

Imagine for a moment that you're a stake president, perhaps a guy who is also a hospital administrator. You've presided over both a hospital that was mistreating COVID patients and a stake where you were pushing masks and phony vaccines were being pushed. Now, you're in front of the stake members at stake conference. It's "go" time. Maybe, having been aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, you're rather lacking the spirit. What a great opener to testify that Jesus is the Christ. Sounds sophisticated. I mean, how many members ever even thought to question the notion that Jesus was the Son of God? Whoa! This is next-level stuff! We don't relate to the stake president, but he sure is advanced, isn't he? We can only marvel at our leaders. The church is amazing! Even our stake president talks like a prophet. This just PROVES we are the TRUE CHURCH.

To testify that "Jesus is the Christ" is esoteric and superfluous to most every human being, except Jews who deny Christ, but have an expectation of a deliverer. To everyone, else, it's pious nonsense.
It’s meaningless for me to comment on your hypothetical. All I will say is… I can’t relate to you, but you sure are advanced, aren’t you?

If you say so.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by iWriteStuff »

I’ve seen all kinds of things to fight about, but this one takes the cake.

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Jesus the Christ

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Being There wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 4:43 pm Did Jesus have a last name?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-last-name.html

We call Him “Jesus,” and sometimes we refer to Him as “Jesus Christ.” Some have mistakenly assumed that Jesus is the Lord’s first name, and that Christ is His last name.

The reality is that Christ is a title, not a name. The word Christ is transliterated from a Greek word meaning “Anointed One” or “Chosen One.” The Hebrew equivalent is the source of the word Messiah. When the Bible refers to “Jesus Christ,” it is saying that Jesus is the Chosen One of God. It’s another way of stating that Jesus is the Messiah. See 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Jude 1:1, and Revelation 1:1.

In Acts 18:5, we see a clear distinction between the name Jesus and the title the Christ: “Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus” (ESV). In other words, the subject of Paul’s preaching at that time was proving that the Messiah (the Christ) was in fact Jesus. The man called “Jesus” fulfilled the role of the Christ, as prophesied in the Law and the Prophets.

Christ is not Jesus’ last name or surname. People in those days did not have last names. Instead, they were identified in other ways, especially if they had a common name (and Jesus was a common name). Many people were identified by who their fathers were: Levi the son of Alphaeus (Mark 2:14), James the son of Zebedee (Mark 3:17), James the son of Alphaeus (verse 18), and Bartimaeus the son of Timaeus (Mark 10:46) are examples.

Other people were identified by their hometown. Jesus was often identified this way. “Jesus of Nazareth” was a common way of referring to Him (Mark 10:47; Luke 24:19; John 18:5). Others who had their hometowns or home countries attached to their names include Lucius of Cyrene (Acts 13:1), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 27:56), and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 10:4).

Still others were distinguished from people with the same name by the use of nicknames. For example, two of Jesus’ disciples were named “Simon”; Jesus gave one the nickname Peter (John 1:42), and the Bible distinguishes the other as “Simon the Zealot” (Matthew 10:4).

Jesus’ last name was not Christ, but referring to Him as “Jesus Christ” is one way to identify His mission in the world. He has many titles. The angel told Mary that He would “be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Isaiah said He would be called “Immanuel” (Isaiah 7:14). Others called Him “Son of David” (Matthew 15:22). Whatever title we use, we know that “there is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12, NLT). Jesus has been given “the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9–11, BSB).
How was the name Jesus pronounced phonetically in his day, does anyone know? Are we pronouncing it correctly currently in modern English?

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