Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Pahoran
captain of 100
Posts: 138

Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Pahoran »

Feb 8th addition... I added to accept the new normal to the subject line of this post after I listened to Elder Bednar's talk where he said if you don't like change to find another church.

During the pandemic, we had a fifth week lesson where the Bishop was talking to everyone. He posed a question to the group whether or not we were united as a congregation. At the time, I really had no idea what he was trying to say because by that point, noone was wearing masks anymore, and it seemed like we were pretty united in that. Of course, we could feel this was a point of contention with the stake leaders, and I imagine stake leaders were giving my Bishop a hard time about that.

It took over a year for me to make the connection, but now looking back on it, I realize that the call for unity probably wasn't my Bishop's idea. It seems plausible that stake leaders were giving him a tough time because no one in our ward was wearing masks. So, I could see maybe our bishop was stumped on what to do, and so he was told, just give them the whole let's be unified spiel. But, the spiel didn't work on us, because we were already pretty united on the whole mask thing, but it really got me thinking, why did he even say that.

Since that time, I have spoken with others saying that they have been asked by church leaders for their ideas on how we can be more unified. I imagine the response they are looking for is for people to say that we should unify behind the leaders and wear masks or whatever.

I am wondering if this is a church wide unity push to get more people to comply with things that they normally wouldn't do to "take one for the team" and not be selfish.

Am I on to something here? Anyone else seeing what I see and have examples? In the name of unity, will the selfish/independent thinkers eventually be cast out unless they get on board?
Last edited by Pahoran on February 8th, 2023, 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1775peasant
captain of 100
Posts: 614

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by 1775peasant »

sounds plausible enough…..wish we had members here like u do,….my wife & i where the only congregants in our ward to never wear a mask,……so i don’t expect to be approached by any leader asking how “we” feel a greater unity could be achieved…..as, we still have a few wearing them….

at Stake Conf last week, i saw a handful wearing masks, 99% weren’t…..i was surprised at how many people where there first off, and pleasantly surprised at how few did have masks on, secondarily!

maybe the pendulum is getting back on our side, here? it’s been a miserable almost 3 years

User avatar
Momma J
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1493

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Momma J »

I would ask him to be mor specific. Are we unified as a Ward in our love and following of the Saviour? Are we unified in our disdain for wearing masks? Are we unified in our decision to have a potluck dinner on the 11th?

User avatar
Momma J
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1493

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Momma J »

Pahoran wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 6:54 pm I am wondering if this is a church wide unity push to get more people to comply with things that they normally wouldn't do to "take one for the team" and not be selfish.

Am I on to something here? Anyone else seeing what I see and have examples? In the name of unity, will the selfish/independent thinkers eventually be cast out unless they get on board?
Society tried the "Guilt trip" on all who would not wear masks, then on all who would not get vaxxed. At first I was worried that our family would be stigmatized and become outcasts of the community; not allowed to shop or work as punishment. Cannot tell how many times I was told that we were being selfish.

I quickly learned that if I treated others around me with love in my heart, they softened their glares and mumbling. They were AFRAID and needed to know that I was not an evil troll seeking out harm to them.

My husband and I decided that we would rather be cast out of an imperfect society, than follow the falsehoods off a cliff.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by EmmaLee »

Pahoran wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 6:54 pm I am wondering if this is a church wide unity push to get more people to comply with things that they normally wouldn't do to "take one for the team" and not be selfish.

Am I on to something here? Anyone else seeing what I see and have examples? In the name of unity, will the selfish/independent thinkers eventually be cast out unless they get on board?

I think it might be a church-wide push, but ours locally has nothing to do with masks. Just last Sunday, for the combined 2nd hour, "unity" and "being kind" was the topic of the class, which our barely 30-year old bishop taught. The whole hour was nothing but a politically correct, woke fest - something you'd hear on a day-time talk show, Hollyweird award show, or CNN/MSNBC. It was awful. We were told by our new RS president (a woman who gets up in every single testimony meeting and bawls for 20 minutes about how depressed she is - not even kidding - and now she's the leader of the women in our ward), that her middle-school aged daughter brought a friend home from school recently - a boy who wants to mutilate and destroy his body to become a "girl", who was "coming out as transgender" (her exact words), and she felt it her Christ-like duty to refer to him as a she/her, so she did - and further enabled his confusion and/or mental illness. That is NOT "being kind" - that is harming and further damaging the poor, deluded boy. The bishop stood there the whole time she was talking, nodding his head in agreement - and then said something to the effect of, "It is our duty to love people no matter what, and be kind and supportive - because that's what Christ would do - we need to accept people as they are and not try to change them." Oh that's right! I remember now. Our example in all things, Christ, patted the woman accused of adultery on the head, and told her to just go ahead and keep committing adultery, if that's being her true self, if that's her "truth", because he's so kind and loving and accepting and tolerant.

Where's that scripture that says the ONLY thing our generation is supposed to do is preach repentance? Has that been taken out of our scriptures? Nope, still in mine - Doctrine and Covenants 19:21, 31 - Moses 6:57 - D&C 58:43 - Mosiah 18:20 - Alma 37:33 - Doctrine and Covenants 18:41–42 - Doctrine and Covenants 53:3, etc. etc. etc.

The whole hour was like that - a mass of politically correct wokeness and Babylonian attitudes pouring out of everyone's mouths, but especially our bishop and new RS president. The bishop ended it by saying, "Nothing should prevent us from being unified, whether we're Democrats or Republicans, we should be INCLUSIVE and TOLERANT and find joy in our DIVERSITY - because we all follow Christ, so political differences don't matter." Well, I'm sorry, but if someone believes it's fine and dandy to rip a baby in the womb, limb from limb, murdering it - I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ if that's your belief and you support that. If you believe it's fine and dandy to forcibly STEAL from one person and give it to someone else, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following the Savior. If you believe it's fine and dandy to enable and coddle mentally ill/possessed people who think they're the opposite sex, or who are openly and proudly wanting to have sex with the same sex, or perverts who are grooming little kids, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ.

So this is a huge quandary, and can't just be happening in our ward. Is it possible to be unified with those who have diametrically opposed beliefs from what is taught (or used to be) in the gospel and the scriptures? I'm not suggesting anyone be "mean" or anything of the sort. But "kindness" and "never offending" now reigns supreme and has replaced truth and God's law. I see this not only in our stake, but coming from the 15/General leaders, as well. The 2nd commandment is now the ONLY one preached - the 1st Great Commandment is now defunct, old fashioned, outdated, gone, never spoken of. "Love" means something different to every person on earth - and in today's PC vernacular, it means never mentioning truth or God's law.

Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe people who march in gay pride parades, and who promote transgenderism/mutilation, and drag shows for kids, and who support abortion and theft and slavery - who give money and time and effort to these Satanic ideologies - and who desire to remove everyone's liberty and agency - maybe those people will be in Zion? Because that is what we're being taught in our ward. That's what unity and kindness and love means here, and it's coming from SL, too.

User avatar
LDS Physician
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1812

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by LDS Physician »

EmmaLee wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 am
Pahoran wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 6:54 pm I am wondering if this is a church wide unity push to get more people to comply with things that they normally wouldn't do to "take one for the team" and not be selfish.

Am I on to something here? Anyone else seeing what I see and have examples? In the name of unity, will the selfish/independent thinkers eventually be cast out unless they get on board?

I think it might be a church-wide push, but ours locally has nothing to do with masks. Just last Sunday, for the combined 2nd hour, "unity" and "being kind" was the topic of the class, which our barely 30-year old bishop taught. The whole hour was nothing but a politically correct, woke fest - something you'd hear on a day-time talk show, Hollyweird award show, or CNN/MSNBC. It was awful. We were told by our new RS president (a woman who gets up in every single testimony meeting and bawls for 20 minutes about how depressed she is - not even kidding - and now she's the leader of the women in our ward), that her middle-school aged daughter brought a friend home from school recently - a boy who wants to mutilate and destroy his body to become a "girl", who was "coming out as transgender" (her exact words), and she felt it her Christ-like duty to refer to him as a she/her, so she did - and further enabled his confusion and/or mental illness. That is NOT "being kind" - that is harming and further damaging the poor, deluded boy. The bishop stood there the whole time she was talking, nodding his head in agreement - and then said something to the effect of, "It is our duty to love people no matter what, and be kind and supportive - because that's what Christ would do - we need to accept people as they are and not try to change them." Oh that's right! I remember now. Our example in all things, Christ, patted the woman accused of adultery on the head, and told her to just go ahead and keep committing adultery, if that's being her true self, if that's her "truth", because he's so kind and loving and accepting and tolerant.

Where's that scripture that says the ONLY thing our generation is supposed to do is preach repentance? Has that been taken out of our scriptures? Nope, still in mine - Doctrine and Covenants 19:21, 31 - Moses 6:57 - D&C 58:43 - Mosiah 18:20 - Alma 37:33 - Doctrine and Covenants 18:41–42 - Doctrine and Covenants 53:3, etc. etc. etc.

The whole hour was like that - a mass of politically correct wokeness and Babylonian attitudes pouring out of everyone's mouths, but especially our bishop and new RS president. The bishop ended it by saying, "Nothing should prevent us from being unified, whether we're Democrats or Republicans, we should be INCLUSIVE and TOLERANT and find joy in our DIVERSITY - because we all follow Christ, so political differences don't matter." Well, I'm sorry, but if someone believes it's fine and dandy to rip a baby in the womb, limb from limb, murdering it - I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ if that's your belief and you support that. If you believe it's fine and dandy to forcibly STEAL from one person and give it to someone else, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following the Savior. If you believe it's fine and dandy to enable and coddle mentally ill/possessed people who think they're the opposite sex, or who are openly and proudly wanting to have sex with the same sex, or perverts who are grooming little kids, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ.

So this is a huge quandary, and can't just be happening in our ward. Is it possible to be unified with those who have diametrically opposed beliefs from what is taught (or used to be) in the gospel and the scriptures? I'm not suggesting anyone be "mean" or anything of the sort. But "kindness" and "never offending" now reigns supreme and has replaced truth and God's law. I see this not only in our stake, but coming from the 15/General leaders, as well. The 2nd commandment is now the ONLY one preached - the 1st Great Commandment is now defunct, old fashioned, outdated, gone, never spoken of. "Love" means something different to every person on earth - and in today's PC vernacular, it means never mentioning truth or God's law.

Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe people who march in gay pride parades, and who promote transgenderism/mutilation, and drag shows for kids, and who support abortion and theft and slavery - who give money and time and effort to these Satanic ideologies - and who desire to remove everyone's liberty and agency - maybe those people will be in Zion? Because that is what we're being taught in our ward. That's what unity and kindness and love means here, and it's coming from SL, too.
What an on-fire post you just created. Exactly! Yes! 100% on target!

Telling a transgender person that they're right and they should go ahead and have surgeries is like agreeing with the anorexic patient that they're fat and should go ahead and get a gastric bypass. What's the difference? Nothing.

And repentance = change. What that bishop and the rest of them are doing is anti-repentance...it's the complete opposite.

Sad. Very sad. Extremely distressing.

Ciams
captain of 100
Posts: 166

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Ciams »

Read and consider:

24 And let every man esteem his brother as himself, and practice virtue and holiness before me.
25 And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.
26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?
27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.

What is the key to being unified:
Virtue
Holiness
Charity

Would God allow one of his children, who serve him obediently, to be clothed in rags, while the other who serves him obediently is not? If we esteemed our brother as ourselves, would we tolerate them to be clothed in rags? I think we can do two things here:
One, robes are metaphorical for priesthood, in which case we have a responsibility to esteem our brother as ourself, who is clothed in the dirty rags of the philosophy of a fallen world and preach the gospel to them. If they choose to remain in rags, that's on them, but what we are doing? Are we anxiously engaged in helping to point others to God?

There is a very literal interpretation here as well, people in our wards are struggling financially, maybe living in rags, while others are paying people small wages to clean their 2nd and 3rd vacation homes. Is that how God would treat his children? The key being, "if they serve him obediently" -- we're talking about faithful members of the church.
In this light, the key to being one is to recognize that we ought to use the financial blessings we enjoy, have received, have worked, for, etc. to bless and enrich the lives of those around us who are struggling. The difficulty is of course, any means that have ever been tried to systematize that seems to fall very short.

But the Lord still gives us this parable and expects us to figure it out. If we claim that we can't help the single mom who goes to church and is struggling because of the evils of socialism, we're missing the point. It should haunt us to some degree. Yes, there are many who are undeserving of our support. But what about those who deserve it.

So to the bishop who asks, what can we do to be united -- I would say, to you bishop, it is given to be a judge in Israel. You have a duty to seek out the righteous poor among us and organize and inspire your ward to build up zion and see that there are no poor among them. What do you want us to do bishop?

User avatar
Rumpelstiltskin
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1085
Location: A galaxy far, far away

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

I think this is more of a push for more "follow the prophet" nonsense. I wouldn't be surprised that this is trickle-down pressure from Sodom Lake City to "get behind the prophet." It seems that parroting the corporate mantra has taken on a slightly more strident tone from the Q15. They know they royally screwed up and members are questioning the dictates. Members will start to question false traditions and that will undermine their legitimacy.

User avatar
HereWeGo
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1220

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by HereWeGo »

We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.

mtmom
captain of 100
Posts: 228

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by mtmom »

HereWeGo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:25 am We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.
There is still Zoom for people who do not attend in our branch, however you have to have special permission to get the link. They want people to start coming back to church "in person".

TwochurchesOnly
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1224

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

EmmaLee wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 am
Pahoran wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 6:54 pm I am wondering if this is a church wide unity push to get more people to comply with things that they normally wouldn't do to "take one for the team" and not be selfish.

Am I on to something here? Anyone else seeing what I see and have examples? In the name of unity, will the selfish/independent thinkers eventually be cast out unless they get on board?

I think it might be a church-wide push, but ours locally has nothing to do with masks. Just last Sunday, for the combined 2nd hour, "unity" and "being kind" was the topic of the class, which our barely 30-year old bishop taught. The whole hour was nothing but a politically correct, woke fest - something you'd hear on a day-time talk show, Hollyweird award show, or CNN/MSNBC. It was awful. We were told by our new RS president (a woman who gets up in every single testimony meeting and bawls for 20 minutes about how depressed she is - not even kidding - and now she's the leader of the women in our ward), that her middle-school aged daughter brought a friend home from school recently - a boy who wants to mutilate and destroy his body to become a "girl", who was "coming out as transgender" (her exact words), and she felt it her Christ-like duty to refer to him as a she/her, so she did - and further enabled his confusion and/or mental illness.

That is NOT "being kind" - that is harming and further damaging the poor, deluded boy. The bishop stood there the whole time she was talking, nodding his head in agreement - and then said something to the effect of, "It is our duty to love people no matter what, and be kind and supportive - because that's what Christ would do - we need to accept people as they are and not try to change them." Oh that's right! I remember now. Our example in all things, Christ, patted the woman accused of adultery on the head, and told her to just go ahead and keep committing adultery, if that's being her true self, if that's her "truth", because he's so kind and loving and accepting and tolerant.

Where's that scripture that says the ONLY thing our generation is supposed to do is preach repentance? Has that been taken out of our scriptures? Nope, still in mine - Doctrine and Covenants 19:21, 31 - Moses 6:57 - D&C 58:43 - Mosiah 18:20 - Alma 37:33 - Doctrine and Covenants 18:41–42 - Doctrine and Covenants 53:3, etc. etc. etc.

The whole hour was like that - a mass of politically correct wokeness and Babylonian attitudes pouring out of everyone's mouths, but especially our bishop and new RS president. The bishop ended it by saying, "Nothing should prevent us from being unified, whether we're Democrats or Republicans, we should be INCLUSIVE and TOLERANT and find joy in our DIVERSITY - because we all follow Christ, so political differences don't matter." Well, I'm sorry, but if someone believes it's fine and dandy to rip a baby in the womb, limb from limb, murdering it - I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ if that's your belief and you support that. If you believe it's fine and dandy to forcibly STEAL from one person and give it to someone else, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following the Savior. If you believe it's fine and dandy to enable and coddle mentally ill/possessed people who think they're the opposite sex, or who are openly and proudly wanting to have sex with the same sex, or perverts who are grooming little kids, no, I don't want to be unified with you, and no, you are NOT following Christ.

So this is a huge quandary, and can't just be happening in our ward. Is it possible to be unified with those who have diametrically opposed beliefs from what is taught (or used to be) in the gospel and the scriptures? I'm not suggesting anyone be "mean" or anything of the sort. But "kindness" and "never offending" now reigns supreme and has replaced truth and God's law. I see this not only in our stake, but coming from the 15/General leaders, as well. The 2nd commandment is now the ONLY one preached - the 1st Great Commandment is now defunct, old fashioned, outdated, gone, never spoken of. "Love" means something different to every person on earth - and in today's PC vernacular, it means never mentioning truth or God's law.

Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe people who march in gay pride parades, and who promote transgenderism/mutilation, and drag shows for kids, and who support abortion and theft and slavery - who give money and time and effort to these Satanic ideologies - and who desire to remove everyone's liberty and agency - maybe those people will be in Zion? Because that is what we're being taught in our ward. That's what unity and kindness and love means here, and it's coming from SL, too.

That had to be rough to sit through.
Crazy, mind-blowing, surreal...this is really hitting the fan...
Thank you for sharing - so -hopefully we can help
Bear one another's burdens

1775peasant
captain of 100
Posts: 614

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by 1775peasant »

HereWeGo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:25 am We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.

our then SP made that same exact decision, in the email, he CAPITALIZED several words like…..mandatory, no, canceled…..it was so over the top, when i read it…..i thought, i hope he likes crow….

and the very next week, that same SP sent out another email resending all his threatening cancelations of zoom, in home sacrament & mandatory masks…….they drove that roller coaster till the wheels ran off……from my perspective, leadership making those type decisions have done great damage……oh, and just over a year ago, that SP was called to be a MP in Hawaii……just unbelievable

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by EmmaLee »

EmmaLee wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 10:14 am We were told by our new RS president .... that her middle-school aged daughter brought a friend home from school recently - a boy who wants to mutilate and destroy his body to become a "girl", who was "coming out as transgender" (her exact words), and she felt it her Christ-like duty to refer to him as a she/her, so she did - and further enabled his confusion and/or mental illness. That is NOT "being kind" - that is harming and further damaging the poor, deluded boy. The bishop stood there the whole time she was talking, nodding his head in agreement
Don't lie.jpg
Don't lie.jpg (212.67 KiB) Viewed 885 times

Forever
captain of 50
Posts: 78

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Forever »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:22 am I think this is more of a push for more "follow the prophet" nonsense. I wouldn't be surprised that this is trickle-down pressure from Sodom Lake City to "get behind the prophet." It seems that parroting the corporate mantra has taken on a slightly more strident tone from the Q15. They know they royally screwed up and members are questioning the dictates. Members will start to question false traditions and that will undermine their legitimacy.
The 15 didn't royally screw up. Everything is going as planned. They obey their puppetmasters.

User avatar
Theveilofforgetting
captain of 50
Posts: 64

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Theveilofforgetting »

Sounds like an amazing ward firstly.

My ward feels a bit cliquey tbh. I think because there are so many extended families and people have known each other a good while they do appear united. A little closed off to new people maybe but most are friendly enough. I think there may be more to it but not sure.

When I went back to church last year, my son and I were the only ones not wearing masks. It was obvious even then it was mostly to comply, to appear selfless etc. They were just waiting to be told to not wear them. Now it's just a few who wear them (usually, it seems. because they have a cough).

I do wonder if I'd be accepted if I didn't fall in line, yet I've had a few instances where I haven't and they tolerate it. They do talk a lot about being less judgemental so maybe its is a part of that. My boys are not so typical in that they have long hair (compared to most of the young men who have the missionary haircut already) which garners lots of comments. I'm also the only home-schooling parent so already they see me as the weird one.

Pahoran
captain of 100
Posts: 138

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Pahoran »

HereWeGo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:25 am We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.
This great division you experienced I believe was a central part of the purpose of the plandemic. I believe this because I had a personal Truman show moment in the middle of it in 2021. I posted on a vaccine stories fb page with hundreds of thousands of members asking about how all this masking and vaccine nonsense has impacts their relationships and ideas for strengthening relationships despite the division. I had multiple thousands of responses to this thread of people talking about the craziest things that they experienced because they weren't on the same page with their family members. One old Lady with little income described how she was kicked out of her families house because she didn't take the vaccine.

So, the thousands of responses I got on this thread was not what blew me away but one day it was all gone. The whole thread had been deleted with no explanation. At that point I was like, yes, it is obvious the goal of this pandemic was not just death but also the destruction of relationships between friends, family, church congregations, workmates and so on.

Pahoran
captain of 100
Posts: 138

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Pahoran »

Pahoran wrote: March 7th, 2023, 8:12 pm
HereWeGo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:25 am We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.
This great division you experienced I believe was a central part of the purpose of the plandemic. I believe this because I had a personal Truman show moment in the middle of it in 2021. I posted on a vaccine stories fb page with hundreds of thousands of members asking about how all this masking and vaccine nonsense has impacts their relationships and ideas for strengthening relationships despite the division. I had multiple thousands of responses to this thread of people talking about the craziest things that they experienced because they weren't on the same page with their family members. One old Lady with little income described how she was kicked out of her families house because she didn't take the vaccine.

So, the thousands of responses I got on this thread was not what blew me away but one day it was all gone. The whole thread had been deleted with no explanation. At that point I was like, yes, it is obvious the goal of this pandemic was not just death but also the destruction of relationships between friends, family, church congregations, workmates and so on. Why else would they delete a popular thread asking for people to brainstorm on ideas to strengthen relationships of those close to them despite not being on the same page with the plandemic.

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8520

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Lizzy60 »

I have been reading the FB posts of two stakes during the scamdemic. They both banned/deleted any mention of the vaccine early on, because people had differing views.

In one case, when the vaxx was first rolled out, there was a thread where people could post where they had found the vaxx available. When a few people said they were going to trust their natural immune systems for the time being, the whole thread was deleted, and anything about the vaccine was prohibited going forward.

In the other case a woman asked if anyone knew where she could get her second booster. She was immediately told that the jab could not be discussed on the ward FB group. So even her desire to get jabbed was too controversial.

Yeah, unity, inclusion, diversity.......unless you don’t want to be a lab rat. Then you may be kicked to the curb.

briznian
captain of 100
Posts: 390

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by briznian »

I often wonder whether it is better to divided by the truth or united under falsehoods.
Last edited by briznian on March 7th, 2023, 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chip
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7909
Location: California

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Chip »

briznian wrote: March 7th, 2023, 8:46 pm I often wonder whether it is better to divided by the truth or United under falsehoods.
I have wondered the same thing. I can't stand the lies, so I think it's better to be divided by truth.

2 Thess 2:8-12 talks about this. It is God's strange work.

Pahoran
captain of 100
Posts: 138

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Pahoran »

Lizzy60 wrote: March 7th, 2023, 8:33 pm I have been reading the FB posts of two stakes during the scamdemic. They both banned/deleted any mention of the vaccine early on, because people had differing views.

In one case, when the vaxx was first rolled out, there was a thread where people could post where they had found the vaxx available. When a few people said they were going to trust their natural immune systems for the time being, the whole thread was deleted, and anything about the vaccine was prohibited going forward.

In the other case a woman asked if anyone knew where she could get her second booster. She was immediately told that the jab could not be discussed on the ward FB group. So even her desire to get jabbed was too controversial.

Yeah, unity, inclusion, diversity.......unless you don’t want to be a lab rat. Then you may be kicked to the curb.
Well at least they equally banned both sides. That is much better than most forums.

User avatar
Seed Starter
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1444
Contact:

Re: Be United, Be Kind....OR ELSE!

Post by Seed Starter »

HereWeGo wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 11:25 am We have a ward which is mostly older people and older families. Some younger families have moved in during the last 5 years. During Covid, our stake broadcast Sacrament Meeting over Zoom even after meeting houses opened back up. There were 55+ logins each Sunday, mostly older people who were still afraid of the virus. We preferred to watch on Zoom so we could talk about the false doctrine when it came up.

The Bishop decided that he wanted his flock to all attend in person. He shut off the zoom, home sacrament and told the members that if they wanted the sacrament, they had to come to church. Everyone should wear a mask and attend in person. The first counselor said he would not wear a mask and was soon replaced. I don't know if he resigned or was released. Some of the 55+ came back but about half didn't. About half of the attendees complied with the mask requirement and sat in the chapel. The rest of us sat in the gymnasium. Non-mask wearers usually skipped the second hour and went home. The two groups didn't associate much before, during and after church meetings. Mask wearers were cold and unapproving of those of us who went mask-less. There was a clear divide. The Bishop spent time in a sacrament meeting pleading for the ward to come back together and was worried about the divide he was seeing.

Shortly after we were forced to attend in person, I asked the Bishop why Zoom stopped since I knew that other wards in the stake were still doing it--still are to this day. He said it came from the top. I asked if he meant the Prophet. He said no, lower down. Area Presidency? No the stake directed it. I pointed out that friends in the next ward to us were still watching it on zoom. I pointed out that some of the older people we ministered to are not coming and are going inactive because of their fear of the virus. They were not in meetings and not receiving the sacrament. He became confrontive because I had caught him lying and he admitted that it was decided by him. He was having a hard time controlling his anger. We said that it was his ward and he could make the choices that he wanted. This placated him and he went away. We haven't spoken to him in the last year and we don't plan on it. Sad thing is I was his and the previous bishop's Ward Clerk for over 5 years.

I don't know if he was told to address this subject but it was obvious that there was a divide even after masks were no longer required. The same divide exists today even though nobody wears a mask. Those of us "rebels" still sit in the gymnasium, associate with the others in the gymnasium and typically skip second hour. A large percentage of the original non-mask wearers don't have callings either by choice or not being called. We were a very cohesive ward before covid. Many clicks and groups exist now.
I thought surely this was an old post. Nope! This seems so crazy but I stopped attending in late 2019 so my I haven't been exposed to as much crazy as this. How does a ward function with a though quarantine gymnasium branch? I thought all broadcasting meetings had stopped until my bishop decided to start a broadcast back up for individuals like me after cutting it off a while ago. He texted me last week with a link on my no internet flip phone. I said thanks :lol: :lol:

Light Seeker
captain of 100
Posts: 422

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Light Seeker »

I for one am so thankful for the plandemic .

It allowed me an opportunity to recognize those I wouldn’t want to interact with…..

I wish those that chose to wear masks were still wearing them .

Makes the process of identifying friend and foe so easy …

User avatar
Momma J
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1493

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Momma J »

Light Seeker wrote: March 7th, 2023, 10:02 pm I for one am so thankful for the plandemic .

It allowed me an opportunity to recognize those I wouldn’t want to interact with…..

I wish those that chose to wear masks were still wearing them .

Makes the process of identifying friend and foe so easy …
:lol: My husband sometimes wears a mask to this day.... while driving alone in his car... :lol:
(In his defense, he has PD and cannot always connect all the dots....)

But he is definitely not a foe. (unless you grow tired of his skills in the parking lot of the grocery store...)

Love and patience for our fellow man will win more hearts ~ just sayin. ;)

User avatar
Cruiserdude
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5359
Location: SEKS

Re: Be United, Be Kind, Accept the new normal....OR ELSE!

Post by Cruiserdude »

Momma J wrote: March 8th, 2023, 6:07 am
Light Seeker wrote: March 7th, 2023, 10:02 pm I for one am so thankful for the plandemic .

It allowed me an opportunity to recognize those I wouldn’t want to interact with…..

I wish those that chose to wear masks were still wearing them .

Makes the process of identifying friend and foe so easy …
:lol: My husband sometimes wears a mask to this day.... while driving alone in his car... :lol:
(In his defense, he has PD and cannot always connect all the dots....)

But he is definitely not a foe. (unless you grow tired of his skills in the parking lot of the grocery store...)

Love and patience for our fellow man will win more hearts ~ just sayin. ;)
I appreciate this reminder..... I have found myself wanting to get impatient with people that still mask of their own accord... as if they personally are the enemy, and that's just not true, they aren't the enemy... and it's not the Lord's way.
I would never want to offend someone like your husband as I can tell by the way you talk of him he's a sweet, God loving man.

Thanks again for this gentle reminder. 👍

Post Reply