For example, have you read the book "Life Everlasting" ? Plenty of stories in there of people having contact with loved ones. I am not against that, but, the danger of deception is so very real. Messages from God and or His representatives are very plain and simple, and there is always a message of light and intelligence if it is from God. But the devil and his imps can absolutely imitate anybody at anytime, including any prophet and loved ones and also including God,(or at least do a very good imitation of Him) and also reveal messages of intelligence, but seemingly of light, as without the spirit of discernment it will all seem as light, yet darkness to those that have the spirit of discernment. It is even prophesied that Satan will appear as an angel of light and deceive even the very elect, "if it were possible".Pazooka wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2021, 11:47 amBecause there were so many OPs, I’m curious to know which particular part you believe is from the dark side.simpleton wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2021, 11:37 amIt simply boils down to this, is the op, (actually there are multiple posts of the same or similiar as the op) but are they talking to whom you say they are? Did they actually receive their "calling and election made sure". Are they truly speaking/communing with the general assembly and church of the First Born? That is for each one to decide for themselves. I most definitely know that we can and have communed with the other world, with God and angels and family, legitimately. But we also, and very rampantly so,, also commune with spirits that go about to and fro upon the earth specifically to deceive mankind. And if you do not have and completely understand the "spirit of discernment", you will most definitely be deceived.Amonhi wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2021, 8:58 amWow, now we're really in a pickle.simpleton wrote: ↑May 1st, 2021, 12:13 am "And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people"
"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God"
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer"
"And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land"
"And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger"
Isaiah 8:19 "And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?"
Isaiah 19:3 "And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards"
And that is exactly what is going on here. I can't believe that so many are succumbing to this practice. Robin Hood hit the nail.
It seems that you've found what appears to be a contradiction in the scriptures. You just listed a whole bunch of Old Testament Scriptures that appear to say that we should "put away those that have familiar spirits". And your interpretation seems to include a mother being visited and comforted by a deceased child.
More specifically, the Lord tells us that the Melchizedek priesthood holes the keys of communing with the general assembly of heaven and the Church of the Firstborn and indicates that doing so is a really good thing that the most spiritual and righteous can and should be able to do.
The power and authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood holds the spiritual key of communing with several groups which are as follows:D&C 107
18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—
19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.If we aren't communing with these groups, then we aren't exercising the spiritual keys of the Melchizedek priesthood. A gift given but refused is as useful as not having the gift. Why have the Melchizedek Priesthood if we can't have the spiritual blessings which include communion.
- The General Assembly
- The Church of the Firstborn
- God the Father
- Jesus
In the OP story, the thing that we are told is, "James Peterson achieved his life long goal by making his calling and election sure about a month before he died." This being the case, he was a member of the Church of the Firstborn. His daughter and son, who are also members of the church of the Firstborn had every right according to the Melchizedek priesthood keys that they hold, to commune with him as another member of the church of the Firstborn.
D&C 76:67 also tells us that we can commune with the church of Enoch. Paul in the bible backs up the other verses and supports the OP in saying that they had come to "the spirits of just men made perfect" which includes the Father-in-law who made his calling and election sure prior to death. Paul goes further and calls out that they have also come to "an innumerable company of angels".How can someone come to "an innumerable company of angels" without being able to commune with them. Or what good would it be to come to God if you could not commune with God?Heb. 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
In the OP, did the deceased Father-in-law commune with his children in a way that was uplifting, edifying and enriching? Yes. Did he teach them "anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy?" I think so because I learned some new and yet obvious things that add insight to why, "the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage", (D&C 138:50). It answered for me the question about why we wanted bodies so badly when I thought that our spirits could do everything our bodies could do. It is a VERY enlightening revelation about him realizing the vast difference between what he was taught and believed spirit life was like from his church lessons and what it is actually like. It also opens up an un-closeable door by pointing out that we are both bodies and spirits and therefore capable of interacting with both worlds naturally as a core part of our very being. The revelation fits perfectly with the scriptures that repeatedly tell us that some people have eyes to see but cannot see and ears to hear but cannot hear.
It also fits perfectly with the scriptures that tell us that Enoch learned to see the spirits
Might make you realize how putting mud in your physical eyes might cause you to not use them for a while so that you learn to use your spiritual eyes? And with his spiritual eyes he was able to see the spirits that God had created which could not be seen with his natural eyes. And this is what made him a seer. He did this under the Lord's direction, so we can be sure that seeing spirits with our spiritual eyes is actually a good thing. Being a seer is actually a good thing. Using your spirit body to experience the spirit world where we came from is actually a good thing, a thing which we have all done for years and years before we gained physical bodies.Moses 6
35 And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him: Anoint thine eyes with clay, and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so.
36 And he beheld the spirits that God had created; and he beheld also things which were not visible to the natural eye; and from thenceforth came the saying abroad in the land: A seer hath the Lord raised up unto his people.
Why then, having all these witnesses would you call evil something that is good and of God and expected of the righteous by the power and authority of the Melchizedek priesthood?
To answer my own question, I believe because you do not know the difference between the evil of using familiar spirits as taught in the bible and communing with the general assembly and the church of the Firstborn.
What do you think some of the differences are?
Peace,
Amonhi
As Joseph very clearly stated:
"I advise all of you to be careful what you do, you may by and bye find out that you have been deceived. Stay yourselves, do not give way. You may find out that some one has laid a snare for you. Be cautious; await!"
And then of course my all time favorite discourse upon the subject by him:
"One great evil is that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence &c., and imagine that when there is any thing like power, revelation, or vision manifested that it must be of God:—hence the Methodists, Presbyterians, and others frequently possess a spirit that will cause them to lay down, and during its operation animation is frequently entirely suspended; they consider it to be the power of God, and a glorious manifestation from God,—a manifestation of what?—is there any intelligence communicated? are the curtains of heaven withdrawn, or the purposes of God developed? have they seen and conversed with an angel; or have the glories of futurity burst upon their view? No! but their body has been inanimate, the operation of their spirit suspended, and all the intelligence that can be obtained from them when they arise, is a shout of glory, or hallelujah, or some incoherent expression; but they have had “the power.” The Shaker will whirl around on his heel impelled by a supernatural agency, or spirit, and think that he is governed by the spirit of God: and the Jumper will jump, and enter into all kinds of extravagancies, a Primitive Methodist will shout under the influence of that spirit, until he will rend the heavens with his cries; while the Quakers, (or Friends) moved as they think by the spirit of God, will sit still and say nothing. Is God the author of all this? If not of all of it, which does he recognize? surely such a heterogenious mass of confusion never can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbour’s spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it; could any one tell the length, breadth, or height of a building without a rule? test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary system without a knowledge of astronomy? certainly not: and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind who can describe an angel of light, if Satan should appear as one in glory? Who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory? or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French Prophets, with their revelations, and visions, and power, and manifestations? or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites with their apostles, and prophets, and visions, and tongues, and interpretations, &c. &c.; or who can drag into day-light and develope the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-Day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as, “no man knows the things of God but by the spirit of God,” so no man knows the spirit of the devil and his power and influence but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look, and gesture, and the zeal that is frequesntly manifested by him for the glory of God:—together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb which is so characteristic of his proceedings, and his mysterious windings. A man must have the discerning of spirits, before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors: for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit, when they think they have the spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power, and baneful effects; long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery, and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage, and desolation are the habilaments in which it has been clothed. The Turks, the Hindoos, the Jews, the Christians, the Indians, in fact all nations have been deceived, imposed upon and injured through the mischievous effects of false spirits.
As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lays in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known; if it requires the spirit of God, to know the things of God, and the spirit of the devil can only be unmasked through that medium, then it follows as a natural consequence that unless some person, or persons, have a communication or revelation from God, unfolding to them the operation of spirit, they must eternally remain ignorant of these principles:—for I contend that if one man cannot understand these things but by the spirit of God, ten thousand men cannot; it is alike out of the reach of the wisdom of the learned, the tongue of the eloquent, and the power of the mighty. And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think of revelation, that without it we can neither know, nor understand any thing of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions concerning this matter, that they understand nothing of this principle, and it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that we sent of God they considered to be false prophets; and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and they had to hide themselves “in deserts, and dens, and caves of the earth;” and although the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds; whilst they cherished, honored, and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, imposters and the basest of men.
A man must have the discerning of spirits as we before stated to understand these things, and how is he to obtain this gift if there are no gifts of the spirit? And how can these gifts be obtained without revelation"?
But to answer the question about the OP, if whether it be from an evil or good source, or of/from God or of the devil.
To each his/her own, but my personal conclusion is it is from the dark side as it does not taste good to me. It feels like it comes from a reprobate spirit.
Being subject to the fiery days of the adversary is part of this mortal existence. It is necessary that we taste of the evil that we may learn to appreciate the good. It is imperative that we learn to know evil and its consequences that we may perhaps learn to overcome it with good.
Where the biggest problem and deception comes from is the minute we allow just even a little pride to come in, in its seemingly countless forms. The minute we take any glory at all, unto ourselves, is the minute the devil takes power. Our whole Babylonian society is completely immersed in pride, it is completely designed to build pride, our sports, our movies, our daily walk, even our church has completely gone into the building up of pride.
"Yea none doeth good no not one." "And all tables are full of vomit".
By the drinking of the kool-aid of proud Babylon, it opens the door to deception. It gives Satan and his minions great power over the children of men, so hence the plethora of spirits going about to deceive in society. And more especially in Mormondom.