The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

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Niemand
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The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

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The secrets of angels, and how they interbred with humans... and strange prophecies
[The] Word of blessing of Henok [Enoch], wherewith he blessed the chosen and righteous who would be alive in the day of tribulation for the removal of all wrongdoers and backsliders.- Enoch 1:1 (Ethiopian)
The Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him: "I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever." And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation. These things were all written in the Book of Enoch, and are to be testified of in due time. - D&C 107:55-57
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage." - Jude 1:14-16 quoting Enoch 60:8
Intro
It is very hard to know where to begin with the Book of Enoch. Enoch is like another alternative mini-Bible, a library rather than a single book, apparently with multiple authors. It is the most massive Apocryphal book I've tried to review so far, and it's one of the most popular to be quoted on here, along with 2 Esdras. This is ironic, since Enoch himself gets very little mention in the standard Biblical canon.

The closest thing in the western canon to Enoch is perhaps Ezekiel and his wild visions. There are also flavours of Genesis in much of the work - although the author often has a very different view - and its apocalypticism mirrors the likes of Daniel and Revelation. The later sections with their emphasis on Metatron have influenced the Zohar and works of Kabbalistic literature, although most Jews abandoned it. It is also said that Idris in the Koran is a reference to Enoch, although that is contested; nonetheless it appears the earliest Muslims knew about Enoch, perhaps via the Ethiopians.

It is often said that Enoch has been "removed from the Bible". There are several reasons for that I think, but here's my basic thoughts:
* It is a substantial work, meaning that few copies of it probably existed in the remote past.
* Because of its angelology, I think that it was seen as a potential gateway to occultism, and trying to contact spiritual beings.
* There is a lot of very obscure imagery in its prophecies. While Daniel gets away with this, many other books haven't. Revelation only narrowly made it into the Bible.
* In the book, evil and sufferring is seen as much as the result of demons as human action and the fall. Obv. this is an oversimplification, and the Bible itself is divided on this.

Some sources say that the Sadducees removed the book, as they preferred form and ritual to mysticism. Either way, it became something of an underground book, at first popular (as evidenced in Qumran etc), but then circulated between Christians and Jews.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to comment below. The show Ancient Aliens has also tried to claim that the Book of Enoch was removed because it talks about extraterrestrial beings and is the earliest account of an alien abduction. Furthermore, they link the Angels and the Nephilim up with the Anunnaki. I do not agree with this!

Why read the Book of Enoch? Simply because it is one of the most interesting pieces of Apocrypha out there. If you have the time, you will get a very different flavour of ancient Judaism, one that opposed much of what we tend to think of in the Old Testament. It is noticeable that many of the sinners in the Book of Enoch are the wealthy and the powerful.

Canonicity
Enoch is part of the Ethiopian Tewahedo (Native Church) canon, along with Jubilees. The only other churches to use it are the Eritrean Tewahedo (which is an offshoot of the Ethiopian) The Copts have used it historically, and there are sections found elsewhere.

The Ethiopian version appears to be a translation of the Greek translation of either Hebrew, Aramaic or both. Fragments of the text in Greek, Latin and Aramaic have been found, and appear to corroborate some of the Ethiopian version. The former chief editor of the Dead Sea Scrolls editorial team, John Strugnell, has claimed that a complete scroll of Enoch in Aramaic is somewhere in private hands. A mediaeval version exists in Church Slavonic.

Many early church fathers also admired Enoch including Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Clement of Alexandria. Wikipedia claims that:
The Book of Moses, first published in the 1830s, is part of the scriptural canon of the LDS Church and has a section which claims to contain extracts from the "original" Book of Enoch. This section has many similarities to 1 Enoch and other Enoch texts, including 2 Enoch, 3 Enoch, and The Book of Giants. The Enoch section of the Book of Moses is believed by the Church to contain extracts from "the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch", though it does not contain the entire Book of Enoch itself. The LDS Church considers the portions of the other texts which match its Enoch excerpts to be inspired, while not rejecting but withholding judgment on the remainder.
Enoch is quoted in the Book of Jude, although there is argument about whether the version Jude had was the same as our current expanded version. Joseph Smith also refers to Enoch's book coming forth in D&C 107 - which it did in the late 18th and 19th centuries.
According to Joseph B. Lumpkin, who edited a recent transliteration of the book, the Book Enoch is referenced more than one hundred times in the New Testament alone, more than the Psalms:
There are over one hundred comments in the New Testament which find precedence in the book of Enoch… Of all the books quoted, paraphrased, or referred to in the Bible, the book of Enoch has influenced the writers of the Bible as few others have. Even more extensively than in the Old Testament, the writers of the New Testament were frequently influenced by… Enoch.
Name
One problem with this book is that it has several names:
* Enoch
* 1 Enoch or Enoch A - this is confusing as the book seems to have been compiled from several other works. Sometimes 1 Enoch is also used to refer to the first section of this book, and at other times the entire work.
* Maṣḥafa Hēnok or the Book of Henok (the Ethiopian name)
* Ethiopian Enoch, since the best version of this book comes from there.

There are other books of Enoch around, I may deal with them later.

Audiobook
THE BOOK OF THE WATCHERS | Book of Enoch Part 1 (54 minutes)
ENOCH 37-71 | Book of Enoch Part 2 - The Parables etc (1 hour 15 minutes)
ENOCH 72-107 | Book of Enoch Part 3 | Full Audiobook with Read-Along Text
An alternative reading in one video (4 hours)
Summary
Image
Enoch has fame, and perhaps notoreity, for its obscure content. It expands on Genesis, and the stories of the angels in it, naming them sometimes for the first known instance. It has prophecies in it, which may be relevant to our times. It also discusses some of the ancient mysteries of history. In this history, the angels teach humans how to create technology and the arts, much like Prometheus in classical legend... echoed in the Lucifer idea.

Some people believe that Enoch was supposed to be an alternative or a replacement of the Torah, while others think it was a compliment to it. It is thought that some of the writers were very hostile towards both Pharisees and Rabbinical style Judaism and the Saducees. Some have claim that the entire work is anti-Mosaic, and indeed the book does not even refer to Moses' visits to Sinai, an odd omission. Some of the other things missing from Enoch include the sabbath, kosher law etc. Enoch 89 has been seen as an attack on the Second Temple. Like Jubilees it also prefers a solar calendar.

Notably Enoch contains tours of Heaven and Hell. Its Heaven contains walls of flame and bright light, something some people would associate more with Hell! Enoch takes two major tours, in 17-19 and 21-36 of these realms.

It describes a pre-existing messiah who will enact judgement upon all mankind, and will create a messianic kingdom.

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections. The changes of pace, style and content between these sections is quite abrupt, suggesting different authors. Many people people suggest that the "Watchers" represents the earliest work, maybe along with the parables. There is dispute as to whether all the apocalypses are by the same author as well.

* The Book of the Watchers (Enoch 1–36)
* The Book of Parables of Enoch (Enoch 37–71) (also called the Similitudes of Enoch) - these do not tend to be like the parables of the New Testament, but apocalyptic visions.
* The Astronomical Book (Enoch 72–82) (also called the Book of the Heavenly Luminaries or Book of Luminaries)
* The Book of Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83–90) (also called the Book of Dreams)
* The Epistle of Enoch (Enoch 91–108)

The sections here are taken from Wikipedia again.

The Watchers
The Watchers being of course the angels and the fallen angels. Just as Adam was supposed to watch the garden, these beings were set to watch the Earth. This may be the oldest section. Enoch (or the narrator) describes various realms and beings.

1–5. Parable of Enoch on the Future Lot of the Wicked and the Righteous.
6-11. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralization of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels of the Messianic Kingdom.
12–16. Dream-Vision of Enoch: his Intercession for Azazel and the fallen angels: and his Announcement of their first and final Doom.
17–36. Enoch's Journeys through the Earth and Sheol: Enoch also traveled through a portal shaped as a triangle to heaven[citation needed].
17–19. The First Journey.
20. Names and Functions of the Seven Archangels.
21. Preliminary and final Place of Punishment of the fallen Angels (stars).
22. Sheol or the Underworld.
23. The fire that deals with the Luminaries of Heaven.
24–25. The Seven Mountains in the North-West and the Tree of Life.
26. Jerusalem and the Mountains, Ravines, and Streams.
27. The Purpose of the Accursed Valley.
28–33. Further Journey to the East.
34–35. Enoch's Journey to the North.
36. The Journey to the South.

Parables of Enoch
Not really parables in the conventional sense. See note above. It is notable that in this section, the phrase "Son of Man" is used repeatedly, which echoes Jesus' use of it in the Gospels, and him being referred to as such in Revelation etc.

37. Superscription and Introduction

38–44. The First Parable.

38. The Coming Judgement of the Wicked.
39. The Abode of the Righteous and the Elect One: the Praises of the Blessed.
40. The Four Archangels.
41.1–2. Anticipation of Judgement
41.3–9. Astronomical Secrets.
42. The Dwelling-places of Wisdom and of Unrighteousness.
43–44. Astronomical Secrets.
45–57. The Second Parable.

45. The Lot of the Apostates: the New Heaven and the New Earth.
46. The Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.
47. The Prayer of the Righteous for Vengeance and their Joy at its coming.
48. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man - the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
49. The Power and Wisdom of the Elect One.
50. The Glorification and Victory of the Righteous: the Repentance of the Gentiles.
51. The Resurrection of the Dead, and the Separation by the Judge of the Righteous and the Wicked.
52. The Six Metal Mountains and the Elect One.
53–54.6. The Valley of Judgement: the Angels of Punishment: the Communities of the Elect One.
54.7.–55.2. Noachic Fragment on the first World Judgement.
55.3.–56.4. Final Judgement of Azazel, the Watchers and their children.
56.5–8. Last Struggle of the Heathen Powers against Israel.
57. The Return from the Dispersion.
58–69. The Third Parable.

58. The Blessedness of the Saints.
59. The Lights and the Thunder.
60. Quaking of the Heaven: Behemoth and Leviathan: the Elements.
61. Angels go off to measure Paradise: the Judgement of the Righteous by the Elect One: the Praise of the Elect One and of God.
62. Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty: Blessedness of the Righteous.
63. The unavailing Repentance of the Kings and the Mighty.
64. Vision of the Fallen Angels in the Place of Punishment.
65. Enoch foretells to Noah the Deluge and his own Preservation.
66. The Angels of the Waters bidden to hold them in Check.
67. God's Promise to Noah: Places of Punishment of the Angels and of the Kings.
68. Michael and Raphael astonished at the Severity of the Judgement.
69. The Names and Functions of the (fallen Angels and) Satans: the secret Oath.
70–71. Concluding Appendices

70. The Final Translation of Enoch.
71. Two earlier Visions of Enoch.

Book of Luminaries
This is an astronomical/astrological text. Chapter 80 is interesting in regard to "climate change" and other environmental problems.

72. The Sun
73. The Moon and its Phases
74. The Lunar Year
76. The Twelve Winds and their Portals
77. The Four Quarters of the World: the Seven Mountains, the Seven Rivers, Seven Great Islands
78. The Sun and Moon: the Waxing and Waning of the Moon
79–80.1. Recapitulation of several of the Laws
80.2–8. Perversion of Nature and the heavenly Bodies due to the Sin of Men
81. The Heavenly Tablets and the Mission of Enoch
82. Charge given to Enoch: the four Intercalary days: the Stars which lead the Seasons and the Months

Book of Dreams
This includes the famous "Animal Apocalypse" (85-90), I'll try and write some more on this below, and also the Apocalypse of Weeks (93, 91). It is said that this part dates to the period of the Maccabees.

83–84. First Dream Vision on the Deluge.
85–90. Second Dream Vision of Enoch: the History of the World to the Founding of the Messianic Kingdom.
86. The Fall of the Angels and the Demoralization of Mankind.
87. The Advent of the Seven Archangels.
88. The Punishment of the Fallen Angels by the Archangels.
89.1–9. The Deluge and the Deliverance of Noah.
89.10–27. From the Death of Noah to The Exodus.
89.28–40. Israel in the Desert, the Giving of the Law, the Entrance into Canaan.
89.41–50. From the Time of the Judges to the Building of the Temple.
89.51–67. The Two Kingdoms of Israel and Judah to the Destruction of Jerusalem.
89.68–71. First Period of the Angelic Rulers – from the Destruction of Jerusalem to the Return from Captivity.
89.72–77. Second Period – from the Time of Cyrus to that of Alexander the Great.
90.1–5. Third Period – from Alexander the Great to the Graeco-Syrian Domination.
90.6–12. Fourth Period Graeco-Syrian Domination to the Maccabean Revolt (debated).
90.13–19. The last Assault of the Gentiles on the Jews (where vv. 13–15 and 16–18 are doublets).
90.20–27. Judgement of the Fallen Angels, the Shepherds, and the Apostates.
90.28–42. The New Jerusalem, the Conversion of the surviving Gentiles, the Resurrection of the Righteous, the Messiah. Enoch awakes and weeps.

Image

--
This is part of my ongoing series on Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical works:

1 Esdras inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343974

2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1344302

1 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69454

2 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69468

3 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69496

4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69515

Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
viewtopic.php?t=69433

Book of Tobit inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1341501

Apocryphal additions to Esther inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343414

Bel and the Dragon (quoted in full, KJV; inc audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69261

Prayer of Azarias and Hymn of the Three Children (quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?p=1341611

Book of Judith and the Book of Mormon, inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69402

Book of Susanna inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69386

Wisdom of Solomon
viewtopic.php?t=69469

Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus
viewtopic.php?t=69412

Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh; quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69263

Psalm 151 (quoted in full, NRSV)
viewtopic.php?t=63875

Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, quoted in full Wycliffe's translation, )
viewtopic.php?t=64025

The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
viewtopic.php?t=69470

Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...

The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
viewtopic.php?t=69540

Book of Jubilees (Apocrypha) aka the Little Genesis or Leptogenesis - Cain, Moses, Enoch, Nephilim
viewtopic.php?t=69548

3 Corinthians (Armenian canon)
viewtopic.php?t=69567

And also
Antilegomena: the books which barely made it into the Bible - Revelation, the Song of Solomon, Jude, Esther etc.
viewtopic.php?t=69609
Last edited by Niemand on February 7th, 2023, 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cruiserdude
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Posts: 5362
Location: SEKS

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Cruiserdude »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:36 am Image
The secrets of angels, and how they interbred with humans... and strange prophecies
[The] Word of blessing of Henok [Enoch], wherewith he blessed the chosen and righteous who would be alive in the day of tribulation for the removal of all wrongdoers and backsliders.- Enoch 1:1 (Ethiopian)
The Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him: "I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever." And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation. These things were all written in the Book of Enoch, and are to be testified of in due time. - D&C 107:55-57
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage." - Jude 1:14-16 quoting Enoch 60:8
Intro
It is very hard to know where to begin with the Book of Enoch. Enoch is like another alternative mini-Bible, a library rather than a single book, apparently with multiple authors. It is the most massive Apocryphal book I've tried to review so far, and it's one of the most popular to be quoted on here, along with 2 Esdras. This is ironic, since Enoch himself gets very little mention in the standard Biblical canon.

The closest thing in the western canon to Enoch is perhaps Ezekiel and his wild visions. There are also flavours of Genesis in much of the work - although the author often has a very different view - and its apocalypticism mirrors the likes of Daniel and Revelation. The later sections with their emphasis on Metatron have influenced the Zohar and works of Kabbalistic literature, although most Jews abandoned it. It is also said that Idris in the Koran is a reference to Enoch, although that is contested; nonetheless it appears the earliest Muslims knew about Enoch, perhaps via the Ethiopians.

It is often said that Enoch has been "removed from the Bible". There are several reasons for that I think, but here's my basic thoughts:
* It is a substantial work, meaning that few copies of it probably existed in the remote past.
* Because of its angelology, I think that it was seen as a potential gateway to occultism, and trying to contact spiritual beings.
* There is a lot of very obscure imagery in its prophecies. While Daniel gets away with this, many other books haven't. Revelation only narrowly made it into the Bible.
* In the book, evil and sufferring is seen as much as the result of demons as human action and the fall. Obv. this is an oversimplification, and the Bible itself is divided on this.

Some sources say that the Sadducees removed the book, as they preferred form and ritual to mysticism. Either way, it became something of an underground book, at first popular (as evidenced in Qumran etc), but then circulated between Christians and Jews.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to comment below. The show Ancient Aliens has also tried to claim that the Book of Enoch was removed because it talks about extraterrestrial beings and is the earliest account of an alien abduction. Furthermore, they link the Angels and the Nephilim up with the Anunnaki. I do not agree with this!

Why read the Book of Enoch? Simply because it is one of the most interesting pieces of Apocrypha out there. If you have the time, you will get a very different flavour of ancient Judaism, one that opposed much of what we tend to think of in the Old Testament. It is noticeable that many of the sinners in the Book of Enoch are the wealthy and the powerful.

Canonicity
Enoch is part of the Ethiopian Tewahedo (Native Church) canon, along with Jubilees. The only other churches to use it are the Eritrean Tewahedo (which is an offshoot of the Ethiopian) The Copts have used it historically, and there are sections found elsewhere.

The Ethiopian version appears to be a translation of the Greek translation of either Hebrew, Aramaic or both. Fragments of the text in Greek, Latin and Aramaic have been found, and appear to corroborate some of the Ethiopian version. The former chief editor of the Dead Sea Scrolls editorial team, John Strugnell, has claimed that a complete scroll of Enoch in Aramaic is somewhere in private hands. A mediaeval version exists in Church Slavonic.

Many early church fathers also admired Enoch including Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Clement of Alexandria. Wikipedia claims that:
The Book of Moses, first published in the 1830s, is part of the scriptural canon of the LDS Church and has a section which claims to contain extracts from the "original" Book of Enoch. This section has many similarities to 1 Enoch and other Enoch texts, including 2 Enoch, 3 Enoch, and The Book of Giants. The Enoch section of the Book of Moses is believed by the Church to contain extracts from "the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch", though it does not contain the entire Book of Enoch itself. The LDS Church considers the portions of the other texts which match its Enoch excerpts to be inspired, while not rejecting but withholding judgment on the remainder.
Enoch is quoted in the Book of Jude, although there is argument about whether the version Jude had was the same as our current expanded version. Joseph Smith also refers to Enoch's book coming forth in D&C 107 - which it did in the late 18th and 19th centuries.
According to Joseph B. Lumpkin, who edited a recent transliteration of the book, the Book Enoch is referenced more than one hundred times in the New Testament alone, more than the Psalms:
There are over one hundred comments in the New Testament which find precedence in the book of Enoch… Of all the books quoted, paraphrased, or referred to in the Bible, the book of Enoch has influenced the writers of the Bible as few others have. Even more extensively than in the Old Testament, the writers of the New Testament were frequently influenced by… Enoch.
Name
One problem with this book is that it has several names:
* Enoch
* 1 Enoch or Enoch A - this is confusing as the book seems to have been compiled from several other works. Sometimes 1 Enoch is also used to refer to the first section of this book, and at other times the entire work.
* Maṣḥafa Hēnok or the Book of Henok (the Ethiopian name)
* Ethiopian Enoch, since the best version of this book comes from there.

There are other books of Enoch around, I may deal with them later.

Audiobook
THE BOOK OF THE WATCHERS | Book of Enoch Part 1 (54 minutes)
ENOCH 37-71 | Book of Enoch Part 2 - The Parables etc (1 hour 15 minutes)
ENOCH 72-107 | Book of Enoch Part 3 | Full Audiobook with Read-Along Text
An alternative reading in one video (4 hours)
Summary
Image
Enoch has fame, and perhaps notoreity, for its obscure content. It expands on Genesis, and the stories of the angels in it, naming them sometimes for the first known instance. It has prophecies in it, which may be relevant to our times. It also discusses some of the ancient mysteries of history. In this history, the angels teach humans how to create technology and the arts, much like Prometheus in classical legend... echoed in the Lucifer idea.

Some people believe that Enoch was supposed to be an alternative or a replacement of the Torah, while others think it was a compliment to it. It is thought that some of the writers were very hostile towards both Pharisees and Rabbinical style Judaism and the Saducees. Some have claim that the entire work is anti-Mosaic, and indeed the book does not even refer to Moses' visits to Sinai, an odd omission. Some of the other things missing from Enoch include the sabbath, kosher law etc. Enoch 89 has been seen as an attack on the Second Temple. Like Jubilees it also prefers a solar calendar.

Notably Enoch contains tours of Heaven and Hell. Its Heaven contains walls of flame and bright light, something some people would associate more with Hell! Enoch takes two major tours, in 17-19 and 21-36 of these realms.

It describes a pre-existing messiah who will enact judgement upon all mankind, and will create a messianic kingdom.

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections. The changes of pace, style and content between these sections is quite abrupt, suggesting different authors. Many people people suggest that the "Watchers" represents the earliest work, maybe along with the parables. There is dispute as to whether all the apocalypses are by the same author as well.

* The Book of the Watchers (Enoch 1–36)
* The Book of Parables of Enoch (Enoch 37–71) (also called the Similitudes of Enoch) - these do not tend to be like the parables of the New Testament, but apocalyptic visions.
* The Astronomical Book (Enoch 72–82) (also called the Book of the Heavenly Luminaries or Book of Luminaries)
* The Book of Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83–90) (also called the Book of Dreams)
* The Epistle of Enoch (Enoch 91–108)

The sections here are taken from Wikipedia again.

The Watchers
The Watchers being of course the angels and the fallen angels. Just as Adam was supposed to watch the garden, these beings were set to watch the Earth. This may be the oldest section. Enoch (or the narrator) describes various realms and beings.

1–5. Parable of Enoch on the Future Lot of the Wicked and the Righteous.
6-11. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralization of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels of the Messianic Kingdom.
12–16. Dream-Vision of Enoch: his Intercession for Azazel and the fallen angels: and his Announcement of their first and final Doom.
17–36. Enoch's Journeys through the Earth and Sheol: Enoch also traveled through a portal shaped as a triangle to heaven[citation needed].
17–19. The First Journey.
20. Names and Functions of the Seven Archangels.
21. Preliminary and final Place of Punishment of the fallen Angels (stars).
22. Sheol or the Underworld.
23. The fire that deals with the Luminaries of Heaven.
24–25. The Seven Mountains in the North-West and the Tree of Life.
26. Jerusalem and the Mountains, Ravines, and Streams.
27. The Purpose of the Accursed Valley.
28–33. Further Journey to the East.
34–35. Enoch's Journey to the North.
36. The Journey to the South.

Parables of Enoch
Not really parables in the conventional sense. See note above. It is notable that in this section, the phrase "Son of Man" is used repeatedly, which echoes Jesus' use of it in the Gospels, and him being referred to as such in Revelation etc.

37. Superscription and Introduction

38–44. The First Parable.

38. The Coming Judgement of the Wicked.
39. The Abode of the Righteous and the Elect One: the Praises of the Blessed.
40. The Four Archangels.
41.1–2. Anticipation of Judgement
41.3–9. Astronomical Secrets.
42. The Dwelling-places of Wisdom and of Unrighteousness.
43–44. Astronomical Secrets.
45–57. The Second Parable.

45. The Lot of the Apostates: the New Heaven and the New Earth.
46. The Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.
47. The Prayer of the Righteous for Vengeance and their Joy at its coming.
48. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man - the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
49. The Power and Wisdom of the Elect One.
50. The Glorification and Victory of the Righteous: the Repentance of the Gentiles.
51. The Resurrection of the Dead, and the Separation by the Judge of the Righteous and the Wicked.
52. The Six Metal Mountains and the Elect One.
53–54.6. The Valley of Judgement: the Angels of Punishment: the Communities of the Elect One.
54.7.–55.2. Noachic Fragment on the first World Judgement.
55.3.–56.4. Final Judgement of Azazel, the Watchers and their children.
56.5–8. Last Struggle of the Heathen Powers against Israel.
57. The Return from the Dispersion.
58–69. The Third Parable.

58. The Blessedness of the Saints.
59. The Lights and the Thunder.
60. Quaking of the Heaven: Behemoth and Leviathan: the Elements.
61. Angels go off to measure Paradise: the Judgement of the Righteous by the Elect One: the Praise of the Elect One and of God.
62. Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty: Blessedness of the Righteous.
63. The unavailing Repentance of the Kings and the Mighty.
64. Vision of the Fallen Angels in the Place of Punishment.
65. Enoch foretells to Noah the Deluge and his own Preservation.
66. The Angels of the Waters bidden to hold them in Check.
67. God's Promise to Noah: Places of Punishment of the Angels and of the Kings.
68. Michael and Raphael astonished at the Severity of the Judgement.
69. The Names and Functions of the (fallen Angels and) Satans: the secret Oath.
70–71. Concluding Appendices

70. The Final Translation of Enoch.
71. Two earlier Visions of Enoch.

Book of Luminaries
This is an astronomical/astrological text. Chapter 80 is interesting in regard to "climate change" and other environmental problems.

72. The Sun
73. The Moon and its Phases
74. The Lunar Year
76. The Twelve Winds and their Portals
77. The Four Quarters of the World: the Seven Mountains, the Seven Rivers, Seven Great Islands
78. The Sun and Moon: the Waxing and Waning of the Moon
79–80.1. Recapitulation of several of the Laws
80.2–8. Perversion of Nature and the heavenly Bodies due to the Sin of Men
81. The Heavenly Tablets and the Mission of Enoch
82. Charge given to Enoch: the four Intercalary days: the Stars which lead the Seasons and the Months

Book of Dreams
This includes the famous "Animal Apocalypse" (85-90), I'll try and write some more on this below, and also the Apocalypse of Weeks (93, 91). It is said that this part dates to the period of the Maccabees.

83–84. First Dream Vision on the Deluge.
85–90. Second Dream Vision of Enoch: the History of the World to the Founding of the Messianic Kingdom.
86. The Fall of the Angels and the Demoralization of Mankind.
87. The Advent of the Seven Archangels.
88. The Punishment of the Fallen Angels by the Archangels.
89.1–9. The Deluge and the Deliverance of Noah.
89.10–27. From the Death of Noah to The Exodus.
89.28–40. Israel in the Desert, the Giving of the Law, the Entrance into Canaan.
89.41–50. From the Time of the Judges to the Building of the Temple.
89.51–67. The Two Kingdoms of Israel and Judah to the Destruction of Jerusalem.
89.68–71. First Period of the Angelic Rulers – from the Destruction of Jerusalem to the Return from Captivity.
89.72–77. Second Period – from the Time of Cyrus to that of Alexander the Great.
90.1–5. Third Period – from Alexander the Great to the Graeco-Syrian Domination.
90.6–12. Fourth Period Graeco-Syrian Domination to the Maccabean Revolt (debated).
90.13–19. The last Assault of the Gentiles on the Jews (where vv. 13–15 and 16–18 are doublets).
90.20–27. Judgement of the Fallen Angels, the Shepherds, and the Apostates.
90.28–42. The New Jerusalem, the Conversion of the surviving Gentiles, the Resurrection of the Righteous, the Messiah. Enoch awakes and weeps.

Image

--
This is part of my ongoing series on Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical works:

1 Esdras inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343974

2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1344302

1 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69454

2 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69468

3 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69496

4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69515

Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
viewtopic.php?t=69433

Book of Tobit inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1341501

Apocryphal additions to Esther inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343414

Bel and the Dragon (quoted in full, KJV; inc audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69261

Prayer of Azarias and Hymn of the Three Children (quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?p=1341611

Book of Judith and the Book of Mormon, inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69402

Book of Susanna inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69386

Wisdom of Solomon
viewtopic.php?t=69469

Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus
viewtopic.php?t=69412

Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh; quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69263

Psalm 151 (quoted in full, NRSV)
viewtopic.php?t=63875

Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, quoted in full Wycliffe's translation, )
viewtopic.php?t=64025

The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
viewtopic.php?t=69470

Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...

The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
viewtopic.php?t=69540

Book of Jubilees (Apocrypha) aka the Little Genesis or Leptogenesis - Cain, Moses, Enoch, Nephilim
viewtopic.php?t=69548

3 Corinthians (Armenian canon)
viewtopic.php?t=69567
We're gonna have our own
'Comprehensive Guide to the Apocrypha for Mormons' by Niemand
here on the forum!
Awesome work, bhràthair 😉😁

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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Niemand »

Some board members' thoughts on the book:

viewtopic.php?p=528926&hilit=enoch+ethiopia#p528926
Robert Sinclair wrote: September 18th, 2014, 8:14 pm Joseph Smith himself said in March 28, 1835 the the book of Enoch would be testified of soon.

And although the Scottish Explorer James Bruce had discovered in 1773 in what is now known as Ethiopia, The Book of Enoch the Prophet, it wasn't until 1883 out of London that it was finally translated by Richard Laurence.

This was one of 24 texts that was purchased by the Bodleian Library of Oxford from the estate of James Bruce, where I believe many of these texts may still not be translated yet sitting there in this library today. You can Google about them under Hebraic, Judaic, Semitic Manuscripts & Rare Books section I believe.

Love to someday see what these other ancient texts might yet hold for us. ♡
inquirringmind wrote: September 18th, 2014, 9:02 pm Until one (some, or all) of these books is canonized by the Church, there is no scriptural "book of Enoch."

Also, I believe the idea of fallen angels (who, acording to latter day revelation were denied bodies because they didn't keep their first estate) having sexual intercorse with human females, and producing children who grew up to be giants is contrary to LDS doctrine (and Joseph Smith's recorded comments on Genesis), and I'm pretty sure that's taught in one (or all) of these books of Enoch.

The book of Enoch Joseph said would one day come to light might still be waiting to be dug up somewhere (or revealed by an angel to some as yet unknown prophet.)

I'm interested in scripture, and the recorded teachings of Joseph Smith Jr.

Is there anything that says God doesn't hate the devil and his angels, that He doesn't look forward to punishing them, or that the pure in heart can't hate them, and look forward to seeing Him punish them (in the standard works, or the teachings of Joseph Smith)?
Mike Maillet's thread on the Book of Enoch
MikeMaillet wrote: May 18th, 2022, 4:57 am I've been reading the Book of Enoch with great interest and I'm interested in your opinions regarding the Watchers.
viewtopic.php?p=1348537

My thread on the Ethiopian canon which includes Enoch
viewtopic.php?p=1348804

"The Book of Enoch the Prophet 1883 London printing", help from this ancient grandfather of yours.♡
viewtopic.php?t=36378

3 Enoch - Metatron - Davidic Servant
viewtopic.php?p=916618

--

Hugh Nibley, “A Strange Thing in the Land: The Return of the Book of Enoch, Part 13,” Ensign, Aug 1977, 64

The “Enoch” of the Dead Sea Scrolls

Just in time for the latest episode in this examination into the book of Enoch comes the long-awaited translation of the Dead Sea Scroll book of Enoch. (J. T. Milik and M. Black, eds., The Books of Enoch, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4, Oxford: Clarenden Press, 1976.) Father J. T. Milik, one of the first scholars on the scene when the scrolls were discovered, was assigned thirty-two fragments of the books of Enoch from Qumran Cave IV; and all scholars working on Enoch have eagerly waited during the last quarter century to see what new information would be added, what theories might be toppled, what hypotheses confirmed by these documents in Aramaic, the earliest of all known Enoch texts.

Here’s what they show:

These documents, dating from the third to the first centuries b.c., corroborate the other Enoch literature that we have. There was a real book of Enoch, which was once written in five parts. This seriously challenges those critics who have claimed for years that ancient sectaries threw everything into Enoch that they wanted to pass off as scripture.

It’s an added delight for Latter-day Saints to read that Professor Milik finds the Greek texts to be much superior to the Ethiopian texts—the Joseph Smith account in the Pearl of Great Price is closer to the Greek than to the Ethiopian. Latter-day Saints will also note with interest Professor Milik’s deduction that one text, the Gizeh text, was undoubtedly prepared to be buried with the deceased—a parallel with the usage intended for the Abraham text.

Furthermore, Professor Milik works with the fascinating hypothesis that Enoch had prepared an account of the creation and the law of God that naturally predates Moses’ account in Genesis and sees Genesis 6:1–4 [Gen. 6:1–4], long a puzzling passage to the biblical scholar, as a quotation from that earlier Enoch source. This is exactly what happens in the Joseph Smith source: Moses quotes Enoch on events shortly after the creation.

As we have already seen, the Enoch story runs into the oldest literature of the human race; and Professor Milik finds links with the mythological heroes of Sumer and Babylonia, with the astronomy of Egypt and Phoenicia, and the ideas about the earth of Mesopotamia. Even though Professor Milik does not seem to recognize the full importance of the “Enoch figure,” he provides some evidence that undercuts yet another scholarly supposition: that Enoch was invented out of the hopes and yearnings of Messianic Jews in the second century b.c.; in fact, however, these very people were shunning the Enoch material at that very time. Milik reviews some important texts that show the writers of the Aramaic text gradually losing their interest in Enoch material during the first century, then the Essenes turning away from it, the writers at Masada actually expunging the name of Enoch and putting Noah in its stead, while the Christians, on the other hand, treasured it highly and embellished it with so many astrological flourishes that they unintentionally undermined Enoch’s credibility for future generations.

In all of these ways, the Qumran IV Enoch fragments reinforce rather than reinterpret what we as Latter-day Saints already knew about Enoch. But these newly translated pieces add one genuinely new bit of information to our store—something that is probably the most objective test yet of Joseph Smith’s prophetic powers.

What always impressed me as the oddest detail of the Joseph Smith account of Enoch was the appearance out of the blue of the name of the only nonbiblical individual named in the whole book—Mahijah. (Moses 6:40.) Mahijah is the one who asks Enoch searching questions, and in answer is told about the place Mahujah, where Enoch began this particular phase of his mission. (Moses 7:2.) It was therefore with a distinct shock of recognition that, after having looked through all but the last of the Aramaic Enoch fragments without finding anything particularly new, and coming to those very last little fragments, I found the name Mahujah leaping out of the pages again and again. (Pp. 300, 302–5, 311, 314.) Could this be our Mahujah or Mahijah? As a matter of fact it could be either, not only because the semi-vowels w and y are written very much alike in the Aramaic script and are sometimes confused by scribes, but also because the name as written in 4QEn, MHWY, is the same as the MHWY-EL who appears in Gen. 4:18 as the grandfather of Enoch, transliterated in the King James Bible as Mehuja-el, which name also appears in the Greek Septuagint as Mai-el and in the Latin Vulgate as Mavia-el, showing that Mahujah and Mahijah were the same name.

So what? A coincidence—a giant or a Watcher called Mahujah or Mahijah. But far more than a coincidence when taken in its context. The only thing the Mahijah in the Book of Moses is remarkable for is his putting of bold direct questions to Enoch, thus giving the patriarch an opening for calling upon the people to repent, referring them to the book of remembrance, and telling them of the plan of salvation. And this is exactly the role, and the only role, that the Aramaic Mahujah plays in the story. The name is found in none of the other Enoch texts and neither is the story: it is peculiar to the version Joseph Smith gave us and the oldest known Enoch manuscripts. The following translation is from Milik and Black, lest the writer be charged with forcing the text....
Bearing in mind that the Aramaic fragments are few and very small and arranged in whatever order the editors think best, it is still possible to see that the themes of the Joseph Smith account emerge clearly amidst all the very obvious changes and vicissitudes that have occurred to the ancient texts.


Another Nibley piece:
While the sons of God have been identified with both angels and the Watchers, the Greek Enoch does not identify the Watchers with Satan's hosts who fell from heaven from the beginning--they are another crowd. It is the Joseph Smith Enoch which gives the most convincing solution: the beings who fell were not angels but men who had become sons of God. From the beginning, it tells us, mortal men could qualify as "sons of God," beginning with Adam. "Behold, thou (Adam] art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all men become my sons." (Moses 6:68; italics added.) How? By believing and entering the covenant. "Our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed, and become the sons of God." (Moses 7:1.) Thus when "Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed. . . they were called the sons of God." (Moses 8:13.) In short, the sons of God are those who accept and live by the law of God. When "the sons of men" (as Enoch calls them) broke their covenant, they still insisted on that exalted title: "Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men?" (Moses 8:21), even as "the sons of men," reversing the order, married the daughters of those "called the sons of God," thereby forfeiting their title, "for," said God to Noah, "they will not hearken to my voice." (Moses 8:15.) The situation was, then, that the sons of God, or their daughters who had been initiated into a spiritual order, departed from it and broke their vows, mingling with those who observed only a carnal law. - Hugh Nibley, collected works 179 - p.180
Last edited by Niemand on February 5th, 2023, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Niemand »

Cruiserdude wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:42 am We're gonna have our own
'Comprehensive Guide to the Apocrypha for Mormons' by Niemand
here on the forum!
Awesome work, bhràthair 😉😁
'S e ur beatha. :D

I've cobbled this together from a few sources. I can't take much credit for it. It's a while since I've read the entire thing. (Twenty years?) I need to go back to it.

At some point I'll try and take a deep dive into some of the material. Possibly what some of the Apocalypses mean, whether it's all authentic etc.

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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Cruiserdude »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:47 am
Cruiserdude wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:42 am We're gonna have our own
'Comprehensive Guide to the Apocrypha for Mormons' by Niemand
here on the forum!
Awesome work, bhràthair 😉😁
'S e ur beatha. :D

I've cobbled this together from a few sources. I can't take much credit for it. It's a while since I've read the entire thing. (Twenty years?) I need to go back to it.

At some point I'll try and take a deep dive into some of the material. Possibly what some of the Apocalypses mean, whether it's all authentic etc.
I appreciate that it's kind of put together in a way to help an lds background person understand the material. 👍 And I like the little details... I had no idea Enoch was even still in some Bibles? I think that's kind of significant, personally.
Anyways, just lots of good uncommon info/insights for an lds background person.

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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Niemand »

Cruiserdude wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:56 am
Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:47 am
Cruiserdude wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:42 am We're gonna have our own
'Comprehensive Guide to the Apocrypha for Mormons' by Niemand
here on the forum!
Awesome work, bhràthair 😉😁
'S e ur beatha. :D

I've cobbled this together from a few sources. I can't take much credit for it. It's a while since I've read the entire thing. (Twenty years?) I need to go back to it.

At some point I'll try and take a deep dive into some of the material. Possibly what some of the Apocalypses mean, whether it's all authentic etc.
I appreciate that it's kind of put together in a way to help an lds background person understand the material. 👍 And I like the little details... I had no idea Enoch was even still in some Bibles? I think that's kind of significant, personally.
Anyways, just lots of good uncommon info/insights for an lds background person.
Ethiopians (and Eritreans) still use it in worship (even though a lot of sources claim no one does.) I don't know how often, if ever the Ethiopians produce a single volume version of their scriptures.

People like to think everything is online today. It isn't... I can think of certain old Scottish stuff that isn't, and probably a lot more, but Ethiopian Christianity seems to be unknown to most academics internationally. Or it is hiding behind paywalls. A shame because it has preserved a few books of its own and is unique African take on Christianity.

I see ?Victor Ludlow has done a book on LDS and the Apocrypha, which i haven't read... but it is amazing that the Apocrypha is mentioned in the Bible Dictionary and D&C, and some of it was included in the original KJV but barely anyone in our church reads it. (LDSFF is a bit of an exception.) I bet someone out there has probably referred to our Restored Scriptures as "apocrypha'.

As for the works which aren't in anybody's canon. I may review a few of them sometime like Thomas etc. But there are too many of them. At least this way I've been able to go through some of them methodically.

I will be adding a bit to this thread as well of course over the course of this week.

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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Bronco73idi »

Niemand wrote: February 5th, 2023, 9:36 am Image
The secrets of angels, and how they interbred with humans... and strange prophecies
[The] Word of blessing of Henok [Enoch], wherewith he blessed the chosen and righteous who would be alive in the day of tribulation for the removal of all wrongdoers and backsliders.- Enoch 1:1 (Ethiopian)
The Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him: "I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever." And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation. These things were all written in the Book of Enoch, and are to be testified of in due time. - D&C 107:55-57
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage." - Jude 1:14-16 quoting Enoch 60:8
Intro
It is very hard to know where to begin with the Book of Enoch. Enoch is like another alternative mini-Bible, a library rather than a single book, apparently with multiple authors. It is the most massive Apocryphal book I've tried to review so far, and it's one of the most popular to be quoted on here, along with 2 Esdras. This is ironic, since Enoch himself gets very little mention in the standard Biblical canon.

The closest thing in the western canon to Enoch is perhaps Ezekiel and his wild visions. There are also flavours of Genesis in much of the work - although the author often has a very different view - and its apocalypticism mirrors the likes of Daniel and Revelation. The later sections with their emphasis on Metatron have influenced the Zohar and works of Kabbalistic literature, although most Jews abandoned it. It is also said that Idris in the Koran is a reference to Enoch, although that is contested; nonetheless it appears the earliest Muslims knew about Enoch, perhaps via the Ethiopians.

It is often said that Enoch has been "removed from the Bible". There are several reasons for that I think, but here's my basic thoughts:
* It is a substantial work, meaning that few copies of it probably existed in the remote past.
* Because of its angelology, I think that it was seen as a potential gateway to occultism, and trying to contact spiritual beings.
* There is a lot of very obscure imagery in its prophecies. While Daniel gets away with this, many other books haven't. Revelation only narrowly made it into the Bible.
* In the book, evil and sufferring is seen as much as the result of demons as human action and the fall. Obv. this is an oversimplification, and the Bible itself is divided on this.

Some sources say that the Sadducees removed the book, as they preferred form and ritual to mysticism. Either way, it became something of an underground book, at first popular (as evidenced in Qumran etc), but then circulated between Christians and Jews.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to comment below. The show Ancient Aliens has also tried to claim that the Book of Enoch was removed because it talks about extraterrestrial beings and is the earliest account of an alien abduction. Furthermore, they link the Angels and the Nephilim up with the Anunnaki. I do not agree with this!

Why read the Book of Enoch? Simply because it is one of the most interesting pieces of Apocrypha out there. If you have the time, you will get a very different flavour of ancient Judaism, one that opposed much of what we tend to think of in the Old Testament. It is noticeable that many of the sinners in the Book of Enoch are the wealthy and the powerful.

Canonicity
Enoch is part of the Ethiopian Tewahedo (Native Church) canon, along with Jubilees. The only other churches to use it are the Eritrean Tewahedo (which is an offshoot of the Ethiopian) The Copts have used it historically, and there are sections found elsewhere.

The Ethiopian version appears to be a translation of the Greek translation of either Hebrew, Aramaic or both. Fragments of the text in Greek, Latin and Aramaic have been found, and appear to corroborate some of the Ethiopian version. The former chief editor of the Dead Sea Scrolls editorial team, John Strugnell, has claimed that a complete scroll of Enoch in Aramaic is somewhere in private hands. A mediaeval version exists in Church Slavonic.

Many early church fathers also admired Enoch including Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Clement of Alexandria. Wikipedia claims that:
The Book of Moses, first published in the 1830s, is part of the scriptural canon of the LDS Church and has a section which claims to contain extracts from the "original" Book of Enoch. This section has many similarities to 1 Enoch and other Enoch texts, including 2 Enoch, 3 Enoch, and The Book of Giants. The Enoch section of the Book of Moses is believed by the Church to contain extracts from "the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch", though it does not contain the entire Book of Enoch itself. The LDS Church considers the portions of the other texts which match its Enoch excerpts to be inspired, while not rejecting but withholding judgment on the remainder.
Enoch is quoted in the Book of Jude, although there is argument about whether the version Jude had was the same as our current expanded version. Joseph Smith also refers to Enoch's book coming forth in D&C 107 - which it did in the late 18th and 19th centuries.
According to Joseph B. Lumpkin, who edited a recent transliteration of the book, the Book Enoch is referenced more than one hundred times in the New Testament alone, more than the Psalms:
There are over one hundred comments in the New Testament which find precedence in the book of Enoch… Of all the books quoted, paraphrased, or referred to in the Bible, the book of Enoch has influenced the writers of the Bible as few others have. Even more extensively than in the Old Testament, the writers of the New Testament were frequently influenced by… Enoch.
Name
One problem with this book is that it has several names:
* Enoch
* 1 Enoch or Enoch A - this is confusing as the book seems to have been compiled from several other works. Sometimes 1 Enoch is also used to refer to the first section of this book, and at other times the entire work.
* Maṣḥafa Hēnok or the Book of Henok (the Ethiopian name)
* Ethiopian Enoch, since the best version of this book comes from there.

There are other books of Enoch around, I may deal with them later.

Audiobook
THE BOOK OF THE WATCHERS | Book of Enoch Part 1 (54 minutes)
ENOCH 37-71 | Book of Enoch Part 2 - The Parables etc (1 hour 15 minutes)
ENOCH 72-107 | Book of Enoch Part 3 | Full Audiobook with Read-Along Text
An alternative reading in one video (4 hours)
Summary
Image
Enoch has fame, and perhaps notoreity, for its obscure content. It expands on Genesis, and the stories of the angels in it, naming them sometimes for the first known instance. It has prophecies in it, which may be relevant to our times. It also discusses some of the ancient mysteries of history. In this history, the angels teach humans how to create technology and the arts, much like Prometheus in classical legend... echoed in the Lucifer idea.

Some people believe that Enoch was supposed to be an alternative or a replacement of the Torah, while others think it was a compliment to it. It is thought that some of the writers were very hostile towards both Pharisees and Rabbinical style Judaism and the Saducees. Some have claim that the entire work is anti-Mosaic, and indeed the book does not even refer to Moses' visits to Sinai, an odd omission. Some of the other things missing from Enoch include the sabbath, kosher law etc. Enoch 89 has been seen as an attack on the Second Temple. Like Jubilees it also prefers a solar calendar.

Notably Enoch contains tours of Heaven and Hell. Its Heaven contains walls of flame and bright light, something some people would associate more with Hell! Enoch takes two major tours, in 17-19 and 21-36 of these realms.

It describes a pre-existing messiah who will enact judgement upon all mankind, and will create a messianic kingdom.

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections. The changes of pace, style and content between these sections is quite abrupt, suggesting different authors. Many people people suggest that the "Watchers" represents the earliest work, maybe along with the parables. There is dispute as to whether all the apocalypses are by the same author as well.

* The Book of the Watchers (Enoch 1–36)
* The Book of Parables of Enoch (Enoch 37–71) (also called the Similitudes of Enoch) - these do not tend to be like the parables of the New Testament, but apocalyptic visions.
* The Astronomical Book (Enoch 72–82) (also called the Book of the Heavenly Luminaries or Book of Luminaries)
* The Book of Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83–90) (also called the Book of Dreams)
* The Epistle of Enoch (Enoch 91–108)

The sections here are taken from Wikipedia again.

The Watchers
The Watchers being of course the angels and the fallen angels. Just as Adam was supposed to watch the garden, these beings were set to watch the Earth. This may be the oldest section. Enoch (or the narrator) describes various realms and beings.

1–5. Parable of Enoch on the Future Lot of the Wicked and the Righteous.
6-11. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralization of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels of the Messianic Kingdom.
12–16. Dream-Vision of Enoch: his Intercession for Azazel and the fallen angels: and his Announcement of their first and final Doom.
17–36. Enoch's Journeys through the Earth and Sheol: Enoch also traveled through a portal shaped as a triangle to heaven[citation needed].
17–19. The First Journey.
20. Names and Functions of the Seven Archangels.
21. Preliminary and final Place of Punishment of the fallen Angels (stars).
22. Sheol or the Underworld.
23. The fire that deals with the Luminaries of Heaven.
24–25. The Seven Mountains in the North-West and the Tree of Life.
26. Jerusalem and the Mountains, Ravines, and Streams.
27. The Purpose of the Accursed Valley.
28–33. Further Journey to the East.
34–35. Enoch's Journey to the North.
36. The Journey to the South.

Parables of Enoch
Not really parables in the conventional sense. See note above. It is notable that in this section, the phrase "Son of Man" is used repeatedly, which echoes Jesus' use of it in the Gospels, and him being referred to as such in Revelation etc.

37. Superscription and Introduction

38–44. The First Parable.

38. The Coming Judgement of the Wicked.
39. The Abode of the Righteous and the Elect One: the Praises of the Blessed.
40. The Four Archangels.
41.1–2. Anticipation of Judgement
41.3–9. Astronomical Secrets.
42. The Dwelling-places of Wisdom and of Unrighteousness.
43–44. Astronomical Secrets.
45–57. The Second Parable.

45. The Lot of the Apostates: the New Heaven and the New Earth.
46. The Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.
47. The Prayer of the Righteous for Vengeance and their Joy at its coming.
48. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man - the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
49. The Power and Wisdom of the Elect One.
50. The Glorification and Victory of the Righteous: the Repentance of the Gentiles.
51. The Resurrection of the Dead, and the Separation by the Judge of the Righteous and the Wicked.
52. The Six Metal Mountains and the Elect One.
53–54.6. The Valley of Judgement: the Angels of Punishment: the Communities of the Elect One.
54.7.–55.2. Noachic Fragment on the first World Judgement.
55.3.–56.4. Final Judgement of Azazel, the Watchers and their children.
56.5–8. Last Struggle of the Heathen Powers against Israel.
57. The Return from the Dispersion.
58–69. The Third Parable.

58. The Blessedness of the Saints.
59. The Lights and the Thunder.
60. Quaking of the Heaven: Behemoth and Leviathan: the Elements.
61. Angels go off to measure Paradise: the Judgement of the Righteous by the Elect One: the Praise of the Elect One and of God.
62. Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty: Blessedness of the Righteous.
63. The unavailing Repentance of the Kings and the Mighty.
64. Vision of the Fallen Angels in the Place of Punishment.
65. Enoch foretells to Noah the Deluge and his own Preservation.
66. The Angels of the Waters bidden to hold them in Check.
67. God's Promise to Noah: Places of Punishment of the Angels and of the Kings.
68. Michael and Raphael astonished at the Severity of the Judgement.
69. The Names and Functions of the (fallen Angels and) Satans: the secret Oath.
70–71. Concluding Appendices

70. The Final Translation of Enoch.
71. Two earlier Visions of Enoch.

Book of Luminaries
This is an astronomical/astrological text. Chapter 80 is interesting in regard to "climate change" and other environmental problems.

72. The Sun
73. The Moon and its Phases
74. The Lunar Year
76. The Twelve Winds and their Portals
77. The Four Quarters of the World: the Seven Mountains, the Seven Rivers, Seven Great Islands
78. The Sun and Moon: the Waxing and Waning of the Moon
79–80.1. Recapitulation of several of the Laws
80.2–8. Perversion of Nature and the heavenly Bodies due to the Sin of Men
81. The Heavenly Tablets and the Mission of Enoch
82. Charge given to Enoch: the four Intercalary days: the Stars which lead the Seasons and the Months

Book of Dreams
This includes the famous "Animal Apocalypse" (85-90), I'll try and write some more on this below, and also the Apocalypse of Weeks (93, 91). It is said that this part dates to the period of the Maccabees.

83–84. First Dream Vision on the Deluge.
85–90. Second Dream Vision of Enoch: the History of the World to the Founding of the Messianic Kingdom.
86. The Fall of the Angels and the Demoralization of Mankind.
87. The Advent of the Seven Archangels.
88. The Punishment of the Fallen Angels by the Archangels.
89.1–9. The Deluge and the Deliverance of Noah.
89.10–27. From the Death of Noah to The Exodus.
89.28–40. Israel in the Desert, the Giving of the Law, the Entrance into Canaan.
89.41–50. From the Time of the Judges to the Building of the Temple.
89.51–67. The Two Kingdoms of Israel and Judah to the Destruction of Jerusalem.
89.68–71. First Period of the Angelic Rulers – from the Destruction of Jerusalem to the Return from Captivity.
89.72–77. Second Period – from the Time of Cyrus to that of Alexander the Great.
90.1–5. Third Period – from Alexander the Great to the Graeco-Syrian Domination.
90.6–12. Fourth Period Graeco-Syrian Domination to the Maccabean Revolt (debated).
90.13–19. The last Assault of the Gentiles on the Jews (where vv. 13–15 and 16–18 are doublets).
90.20–27. Judgement of the Fallen Angels, the Shepherds, and the Apostates.
90.28–42. The New Jerusalem, the Conversion of the surviving Gentiles, the Resurrection of the Righteous, the Messiah. Enoch awakes and weeps.

Image

--
This is part of my ongoing series on Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical works:

1 Esdras inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343974

2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1344302

1 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69454

2 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69468

3 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69496

4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69515

Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
viewtopic.php?t=69433

Book of Tobit inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1341501

Apocryphal additions to Esther inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?p=1343414

Bel and the Dragon (quoted in full, KJV; inc audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69261

Prayer of Azarias and Hymn of the Three Children (quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?p=1341611

Book of Judith and the Book of Mormon, inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69402

Book of Susanna inc. audiobook link
viewtopic.php?t=69386

Wisdom of Solomon
viewtopic.php?t=69469

Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus
viewtopic.php?t=69412

Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh; quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
viewtopic.php?t=69263

Psalm 151 (quoted in full, NRSV)
viewtopic.php?t=63875

Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, quoted in full Wycliffe's translation, )
viewtopic.php?t=64025

The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
viewtopic.php?t=69470

Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...

The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
viewtopic.php?t=69540

Book of Jubilees (Apocrypha) aka the Little Genesis or Leptogenesis - Cain, Moses, Enoch, Nephilim
viewtopic.php?t=69548

3 Corinthians (Armenian canon)
viewtopic.php?t=69567
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.

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Niemand
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

https://gospelworthdyingfor.com/enochs- ... testament/
According to bible scholar Robert Henry Charles, Enoch has had more influence on the New Testament than any other so-called apocryphal or pseudepigraphal work. This makes one wonder why we have been warned to stay away from the writings of this pre-Flood prophet. However, after reading through 1 Enoch 1 and the entire New Testament, it is hard to fathom why anyone would want to dismiss this book.

The writers of New Testament canon authenticate the importance of the Book of Enoch. Verbatim quotes taken from this book can be found in the Gospels, Hebrews, Romans, Revelation, and Jude. This is fitting for a book that was written specifically for the last generation living at the time just before Yeshua’s second coming.
Enoch’s Fingerprints Are All Over The New Testament
According to R.H. Charles, 1 Enoch has influenced New Testament writers more than any other extra-biblical ancient writings. Using Charles’ notes as a guide, we have created the chart below to help you test whether this is true.
The formatting has been destroyed by cut and paste, but this may be useful.

NEW TESTAMENT BOOK OF ENOCH
Jude 1:6 Enoch chapter 12:4
Jude 1:14 Enoch 60:8
1 John 1:7 Enoch 92:4
1 John 2:8 Enoch 58:5
1 John 2:15 Enoch 108:8
Revelation 2:7 Enoch 25:4-6
Revelation 3:5 Enoch 90:31
Revelation 3:10 Enoch 37:5
Revelation 3:17 Enoch 92:8
Revelation 3:17 Enoch 62:14
Revelation 4:6 Enoch 40:2
Revelation 4:8 Enoch 39:13
Revelation 7:1 Enoch 69:22
Revelation 7:15 Enoch 45:4
Revelation 9:1 Enoch 86:1
Revelation 9:20 Enoch 99:7
Revelation 13:14 Enoch 54:6
Revelation 14:9 Enoch 48:9
Revelation 14:10 Enoch 20:1
Revelation 14:20 Enoch 100:3
Revelation 17:14 Enoch 9:4
Revelation 20:13 Enoch 51:1
Revelation 10:15 Enoch 90:26
Revelation 22:3 Enoch 25:6
Romans 8:38 Enoch 61:10
Romans 9:5 Enoch 77:1
1 Corinthians 6:2 Enoch 48:7
2 Corinthians 4:6 Enoch 38:4
Ephesians 1:9 Enoch 49:4
Colossians 2:3 Enoch 46:3
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Enoch 62:4
Ephesians 5:8 Enoch 108:2
2 Thessalonians 1:7 Enoch 61:10
1 Timothy 1:9 Enoch 93:4
1 Timothy 1:15 Enoch 94:1
1 Timothy 5:21 Enoch 39:1
1 Timothy 16:15 Enoch 9:4
Hebrews 4:13 Enoch 9:5
Hebrews 11:5 Enoch 15:1; 70:1-4
Hebrews 12:9 Enoch 37:2
Acts 3:14 Enoch 53:6
Acts 4:12 Enoch 48:7
Acts 10:4 Enoch 99:3
Acts 17:31 Enoch 41:9
John 5:22 Enoch 69:27
John 12:36/Luke 16:8 Enoch 108:11
John 14:2 Enoch 39:4
Luke 1:52 Enoch 46:4
Luke 9:35 Enoch 40:5
Luke 17:7 Enoch 47:1,2
Luke 23:35 Enoch 40:5
Matthew 19:28 Enoch 62:5
Matthew 19:29 Enoch 40:9
Matthew 25:41 Enoch 54:4,5*
Matthew 26:24 Enoch 38:2

Source: The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, Volume 2, by R.H. Charles, pages 180,181

--
The Enmenduranna question
Britannica says that the
portrait of Enoch as visionary was influenced by the Babylonian tradition of the 7th antediluvian king, Enmenduranna, who was linked to the sun god and received divine revelations. The story of Enoch reflects many such features of the Babylonian myth.... Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

If so then Enoch shares this issue with the Book of Esther whose main characters Esther and Mordecai have been linked to the Babylonian gods. Ishtar and Marduk. Enmenduranna was supposedly taken up to Heaven by the god Shamash, and taught divination and other secrets.

James C. Vanderkam (quote unsourced) says
The Enoch literature seems to offer an alternative to the form of Judaism that centers upon the Mosaic covenantal law. It appeals to a myth of great evil and punishment in ancient times and calls on people to be righteous because another judgment is coming. That righteousness is apparently defined in Enoch's writings, not in the Mosaic law. In other words, the appeal here is to a much earlier time in history, before the division of nations. Was Enoch chosen to make a wider appeal than Moses who lived after the nation of Israel had begun? There is ample reason for believing that the biblical and pseudepigraphic Enoch is a reflection of Mesopotamian traditions about the seventh antediluvian king Enmeduranki of Sippar, a king who was associated with the sun god and with divination. Enoch, the seventh pre-flood patriarch in the Bible, taught a solar calendar and received revelations about the future through mantic means such as symbolic dreams.

Graham Hancock, The Sign and the Seal mentions another identification
...The Book of Enoch has always been of great significance to Freemasons, and...certain rituals dating back to long before Bruce's time [1730-1794] identified Enoch himself with Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom.

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ransomme
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Posts: 4014

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:18 pm
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.
AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.

Bronco73idi
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Posts: 3623

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:40 am
Bronco73idi wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:18 pm
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.
AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.

Did you listen to the video of Hugh Nibley?

Previously You asked me to clarify John 1:1-3 and I ignored you then another member posted that scripture in a different thread and you asked them to explain. I then explained John 1:1-3 in that second thread, you never replied with a thank you. That proves to me your works are of contention.

Jesus tells the Sadducees they greatly error because they don’t read the scriptures literally, has God changed?

I gave you meat, give me meat to back theology of men definition of Gen 6:1-4.

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MikeMaillet
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Location: Ingleside, Ontario

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by MikeMaillet »

ransomme wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:40 am
Bronco73idi wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:18 pm
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.
AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.
Yes, I agree. Also, there's something inside me that lights up whenever the topic of AGT comes up. I can't describe it but it ain't good.

Mike

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MikeMaillet
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Location: Ingleside, Ontario

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by MikeMaillet »

My suggestion is that if you are curious about Enoch, just jump in and read the book and save reading the commentaries for after. There is danger of not hearing the still small voice if one's thoughts have already been influenced by someone else's opinion, more so if we respect the other's opinion or if we consider them to be experts. I have read the book about a dozen times and liked it so much that I went out and bought a hard copy of the book for my own. It reminded of when Victor Kiam bought the Remington company :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf22bddvLnc

Mike

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Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13999

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

MikeMaillet wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:57 am My suggestion is that if you are curious about Enoch, just jump in and read the book and save reading the commentaries for after. There is danger of not hearing the still small voice if one's thoughts have already been influenced by someone else's opinion, more so if we respect the other's opinion or if we consider them to be experts. I have read the book about a dozen times and liked it so much that I went out and bought a hard copy of the book for my own. It reminded of when Victor Kiam bought the Remington company :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf22bddvLnc

Mike
Alternatively, check out Christopher Glyn's three audiobooks (linked above). I find his voice pleasant to listen to, which is why I've chosen them and he's also split the book into three sections of around 70 minutes each which makes it practical to digest.

Hopefully the skeleton outline above will be useful, plus the table of New Testament parallels/references if someone wants to integrate this into a wider Bible study.

My impression of this book is that some parts are more inspired than others.

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MikeMaillet
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Posts: 1597
Location: Ingleside, Ontario

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by MikeMaillet »

Niemand wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:36 am
MikeMaillet wrote: February 6th, 2023, 10:57 am My suggestion is that if you are curious about Enoch, just jump in and read the book and save reading the commentaries for after. There is danger of not hearing the still small voice if one's thoughts have already been influenced by someone else's opinion, more so if we respect the other's opinion or if we consider them to be experts. I have read the book about a dozen times and liked it so much that I went out and bought a hard copy of the book for my own. It reminded of when Victor Kiam bought the Remington company :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf22bddvLnc

Mike
Alternatively, check out Christopher Glyn's three audiobooks (linked above). I find his voice pleasant to listen to, which is why I've chosen them and he's also split the book into three sections of around 70 minutes each which makes it practical to digest.

Hopefully the skeleton outline above will be useful, plus the table of New Testament parallels/references if someone wants to integrate this into a wider Bible study.

My impression of this book is that some parts are more inspired than others.
Thanks Niemand, I appreciate the suggestion.

Mike

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ransomme
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Posts: 4014

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:18 am
ransomme wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:40 am
Bronco73idi wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:18 pm
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.
AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.

Did you listen to the video of Hugh Nibley?

Previously You asked me to clarify John 1:1-3 and I ignored you then another member posted that scripture in a different thread and you asked them to explain. I then explained John 1:1-3 in that second thread, you never replied with a thank you. That proves to me your works are of contention.

Jesus tells the Sadducees they greatly error because they don’t read the scriptures literally, has God changed?

I gave you meat, give me meat to back theology of men definition of Gen 6:1-4.
Yes I listened and that does not say AGT at all to me. Everything about the story in the scriptures really goes against AGT IMO. From Adam being made by God, to Adam making covenants with God, to being made a son of God, to being Michael who is not God but is like unto Him, to Adam's transgression, to explicit statements about Michael's and Adam's roles, and so much more.

And imagine trying to add the ideas of those others here believing in a triune God. *Mind Blown* Then God would be Adam, who would also be Jesus.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 4:49 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:18 am
ransomme wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:40 am
Bronco73idi wrote: February 5th, 2023, 3:18 pm
In Moses 6:41 Enoch, the descendant of Adam tells Mahijah “I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day. And my father taught me in all the ways of God.”

In this video @3:28 “they dwell in the heavens”

Enoch, dwelled in the heavens with his great — grandfather Adam.

Tower of Babel was built to go somewhere, not the moon or the sun.

Genesis 6:1-4 Enoch’s literal brothers came down and married the fair daughters of man, Enoch was a son of god = son of Adam. Adam = God.

We divide all these ideas up to fit them in our opinion of religion. But if we fit the puzzle pieces all together then we have the fact that Adam was not the father of aboriginals.
AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.

Did you listen to the video of Hugh Nibley?

Previously You asked me to clarify John 1:1-3 and I ignored you then another member posted that scripture in a different thread and you asked them to explain. I then explained John 1:1-3 in that second thread, you never replied with a thank you. That proves to me your works are of contention.

Jesus tells the Sadducees they greatly error because they don’t read the scriptures literally, has God changed?

I gave you meat, give me meat to back theology of men definition of Gen 6:1-4.
Yes I listened and that does not say AGT at all to me. Everything about the story in the scriptures really goes against AGT IMO. From Adam being made by God, to Adam making covenants with God, to being made a son of God, to being Michael who is not God but is like unto Him, to Adam's transgression, to explicit statements about Michael's and Adam's roles, and so much more.

And imagine trying to add the ideas of those others here believing in a triune God. *Mind Blown* Then God would be Adam, who would also be Jesus.
Almost like why Jesus kept saying, and I and the father are one, John 10:30. He wanted people to understand that the Greek and Roman traditional religion with many gods and many wills and goals are wrong.

Adam’s father gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28

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ransomme
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Posts: 4014

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:31 pm
ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 4:49 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:18 am
ransomme wrote: February 6th, 2023, 6:40 am

AGT is prima facie absurd, not least of which because Adam was the first son of God so that all others could become sons of God.

Did you listen to the video of Hugh Nibley?

Previously You asked me to clarify John 1:1-3 and I ignored you then another member posted that scripture in a different thread and you asked them to explain. I then explained John 1:1-3 in that second thread, you never replied with a thank you. That proves to me your works are of contention.

Jesus tells the Sadducees they greatly error because they don’t read the scriptures literally, has God changed?

I gave you meat, give me meat to back theology of men definition of Gen 6:1-4.
Yes I listened and that does not say AGT at all to me. Everything about the story in the scriptures really goes against AGT IMO. From Adam being made by God, to Adam making covenants with God, to being made a son of God, to being Michael who is not God but is like unto Him, to Adam's transgression, to explicit statements about Michael's and Adam's roles, and so much more.

And imagine trying to add the ideas of those others here believing in a triune God. *Mind Blown* Then God would be Adam, who would also be Jesus.
Almost like why Jesus kept saying, and I and the father are one, John 10:30. He wanted people to understand that the Greek and Roman traditional religion with many gods and many wills and goals are wrong.

Adam’s father gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28
In this cause a 🤯 is not a good thing. God is not a single person who likes ventriloquism, and speaking in the third person about Himself. Nor is he his own Father, since we have the same Father as Adam. We all may become sons of the same God as Adam.

But IDK maybe you think Adam is his own son. After all people think Jesus was Son to Himself.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:31 pm
ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 4:49 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 6th, 2023, 9:18 am


Did you listen to the video of Hugh Nibley?

Previously You asked me to clarify John 1:1-3 and I ignored you then another member posted that scripture in a different thread and you asked them to explain. I then explained John 1:1-3 in that second thread, you never replied with a thank you. That proves to me your works are of contention.

Jesus tells the Sadducees they greatly error because they don’t read the scriptures literally, has God changed?

I gave you meat, give me meat to back theology of men definition of Gen 6:1-4.
Yes I listened and that does not say AGT at all to me. Everything about the story in the scriptures really goes against AGT IMO. From Adam being made by God, to Adam making covenants with God, to being made a son of God, to being Michael who is not God but is like unto Him, to Adam's transgression, to explicit statements about Michael's and Adam's roles, and so much more.

And imagine trying to add the ideas of those others here believing in a triune God. *Mind Blown* Then God would be Adam, who would also be Jesus.
Almost like why Jesus kept saying, and I and the father are one, John 10:30. He wanted people to understand that the Greek and Roman traditional religion with many gods and many wills and goals are wrong.

Adam’s father gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28
In this cause a 🤯 is not a good thing. God is not a single person who likes ventriloquism, and speaking in the third person about Himself. Nor is he his own Father, since we have the same Father as Adam. We all may become sons of the same God as Adam.

But IDK maybe you think Adam is his own son. After all people think Jesus was Son to Himself.
Adam’s father, Elohim, gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28. Does that mean all male humanoids have dominion or just Adam? Until he passes it down to an heir that is… Should we read it literally?

Is Adam, Abraham’s father, who art in heaven?

The Old Testament wasn’t written for the swine or the dogs.

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ransomme
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by ransomme »

Bronco73idi wrote: February 8th, 2023, 12:32 am
ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:31 pm
ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 4:49 pm

Yes I listened and that does not say AGT at all to me. Everything about the story in the scriptures really goes against AGT IMO. From Adam being made by God, to Adam making covenants with God, to being made a son of God, to being Michael who is not God but is like unto Him, to Adam's transgression, to explicit statements about Michael's and Adam's roles, and so much more.

And imagine trying to add the ideas of those others here believing in a triune God. *Mind Blown* Then God would be Adam, who would also be Jesus.
Almost like why Jesus kept saying, and I and the father are one, John 10:30. He wanted people to understand that the Greek and Roman traditional religion with many gods and many wills and goals are wrong.

Adam’s father gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28
In this cause a 🤯 is not a good thing. God is not a single person who likes ventriloquism, and speaking in the third person about Himself. Nor is he his own Father, since we have the same Father as Adam. We all may become sons of the same God as Adam.

But IDK maybe you think Adam is his own son. After all people think Jesus was Son to Himself.
Adam’s father, Elohim, gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28. Does that mean all male humanoids have dominion or just Adam? Until he passes it down to an heir that is… Should we read it literally?

Is Adam, Abraham’s father, who art in heaven?

The Old Testament wasn’t written for the swine or the dogs.
Adam's Elohim is our Elohim. Adam is the father of mankind the same way Noah is, and also the same way Abraham is.

Adam is the first progenitor on Earth, and was given dominion and charge to be a caretaker of the earth. Adam, as in mankind, are all prospective heirs (depending on whether they qualify). We are all in the image of God. Meaning that we are supposed to use our agency to represent Elohim aka do the will of the Father. Just as Jesus so explicitly demonstrated.

I think there are more legitimate questions...

Did Jehovah/Jesus, Lucifer, Michael, Gabriel, and the like have an earlier beginning than the rest of us?
How did Jesus have glory before His triumphant ministry? MMPs?
Etc...

Bronco73idi
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon)

Post by Bronco73idi »

ransomme wrote: February 8th, 2023, 4:01 am
Bronco73idi wrote: February 8th, 2023, 12:32 am
ransomme wrote: February 7th, 2023, 11:30 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: February 7th, 2023, 5:31 pm

Almost like why Jesus kept saying, and I and the father are one, John 10:30. He wanted people to understand that the Greek and Roman traditional religion with many gods and many wills and goals are wrong.

Adam’s father gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28
In this cause a 🤯 is not a good thing. God is not a single person who likes ventriloquism, and speaking in the third person about Himself. Nor is he his own Father, since we have the same Father as Adam. We all may become sons of the same God as Adam.

But IDK maybe you think Adam is his own son. After all people think Jesus was Son to Himself.
Adam’s father, Elohim, gave Adam dominion over all the earth in genesis 1:28. Does that mean all male humanoids have dominion or just Adam? Until he passes it down to an heir that is… Should we read it literally?

Is Adam, Abraham’s father, who art in heaven?

The Old Testament wasn’t written for the swine or the dogs.
Adam's Elohim is our Elohim. Adam is the father of mankind the same way Noah is, and also the same way Abraham is.

Adam is the first progenitor on Earth, and was given dominion and charge to be a caretaker of the earth. Adam, as in mankind, are all prospective heirs (depending on whether they qualify). We are all in the image of God. Meaning that we are supposed to use our agency to represent Elohim aka do the will of the Father. Just as Jesus so explicitly demonstrated.

I think there are more legitimate questions...

Did Jehovah/Jesus, Lucifer, Michael, Gabriel, and the like have an earlier beginning than the rest of us?
How did Jesus have glory before His triumphant ministry? MMPs?
Etc...
Some say this earthly world will be reborn and then become celestial. If that is the case then who would be given dominion over this celestial body?

No earlier beginnings, we are all gnolaum.

Abraham chapter 3 tells us this, the whole chapter is an excellent read with rich doctrinal truths. Verse 18 tells us all spirits are gnolaum, or eternal. 19 tells us that the lord is smarter then us all and 21-22 tells us that the lord was in the mist of the noble and great ones. “the intelligences that were organized before the world was”

I view MMP as I viewed AGT when I first heard it, it sounds interesting, maybe. I heard about both of them 2016-17. I now have a testament of AGT. Remember Elohim has many worlds, innumerable to us, he knows them all. He dwells in the highest world Kolob.

Adam is not the father of the aboriginals, he was given dominion over them.

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Niemand
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

viewtopic.php?t=69617
Berrett wrote: February 8th, 2023, 7:04 amIt has always been a popular strategy to teach of gods who come down to Earth and have sex with mortal women. This was described in Genesis chapter six when the sons of God took wives of the daughters of men. And there were giants in the Earth. And mighty men were created. But for fallen angels or gods to impregnate mortal women is not a good thing. Just check out the described results in the Book of Genesis with the flood. This bad conduct is also described in the Book of Enoch.

In the Book of Enoch, the watchers are angels who are assigned to watch over Earth. They soon begin to lust over human women and procreate with the pretty little Earthling girls. The offspring of these transgressors are the Nephilim, giants who pillage the earth and endanger humanity. God has to fix this mess, and does so by bathing the Earth in a flood. Noah and his group survived. The watchers are bound in the valleys of Earth until judgment day. Some have suggested that these are some of the angels who kept not their first estate as described in Jude 1:6. So, impregnating Earth women with the seed of angels or gods is discouraged. After all, it did lead to the destruction of humanity.

Of course people like Hercules, son of Zeus, would disagree. So would hundreds of others described in legend, fiction and religious theories who suggest that higher dimension beings impregnating lower beings is fun and good. It is a popular fiction to help sell a Satanic product in a fantasy world, but it is not true. Such a fable does not come from the God of Light. It is anti-Christ as taught by John. Plus historically it does not prove to be a good idea. It always sucks when Nephilim destroy one's world.
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Niemand
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

viewtopic.php?t=69603
MikeMaillet wrote: February 8th, 2023, 5:17 am The Book of Enoch talks quite a bit about giants, starting at chapter 6.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/

Here's a sample:

CHAPTER VI.

1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.

CHAPTER VII.

1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.


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Last edited by Niemand on March 22nd, 2023, 2:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Wolfwoman »

So fascinating. I remember reading/listening to audio of Hugh Nibley’s A Strange Thing in the Land series in the Ensign. Love it.

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Niemand
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

I started a thread on "Who are the Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4?" The Book of Enoch inevitably came up. Abijah and others mentioned it. Abijah summarises some of a video here:
viewtopic.php?t=71025
abijah wrote: May 28th, 2023, 4:05 pm
abijah wrote: May 25th, 2023, 4:29 pm a+ research 👌 video is timestamped
this one might be better to start with.
I have put the rest of Abijah's summary in italics below.

1:00 - 2:00
Wishes these subjects were talked about more in Christian churches, about 99% of churches don't teach any prehistory or prophecy, neglect the full context of the bible, leaving dangling questions and unanswered threads.

2:00 - 6:00
Talks about his upcoming book, sequel to his original, and about certain censorship speedbumps which have come up causig it's release to be delayed.

6:00 - 9:00
Upcoming speaking events and various topics he'll be covering.

9:00 - 10:20
Gary likes 1 Enoch a lot, whereas not so much 2 Enoch (aka 'Secrets of Enoch'), 3 Enoch, or the Book of Giants. Remarks how the Book of the Giants might be slightly better han 2 & 3 Enoch due to being a bit more biblically consistent, however it's fragmentary and there's not enough if it, as well as there being some dubious connections to the manichean book of giants, which he finds concerning.

10:20 - 11:10
Discusses how his approach is basically to measure how any noncanonical text compares and aligns with the bible, which functions as his touchstone. When things work consistently with the context of the bible, hes inclined to take them a bit more seriously than things that don't. Likes to keep a strict standard regarding extrabiblical literature.

11:10 - 13:40
Regarding the Book of Enoch, he finds it very interesting we don't have a full hebrew manuscript which is "one of the big issues", we have fragments but only very little of the complete text. We have surviving versions of it in Aramaic, Greek and Geez, the latter being his preferred version. Considers 1 Enoch to be very consistent with the bible, about 99%, and while it does provide extra detail, none of it is contradictory or is heading in a different direction than the bible is. Points out how the bible is pretty stingy on the details leading up to the flood in Genesis 6. Mentions that there were 70 scrolls of the hagiographa of ancient Israel and Judah that isn't a part of the canon. Suspects 1 Enoch was once part of the broader canon, and common knowledge. There's terminology in 1 Enoch that aligns exactly with how it's used in scripture, like "sons of God", and "watcher"

13:40 - 16:57
The ophanim: a group of angels who are a subgroup of the watchers (in the book of Enoch there's the "archangels", the "seraphim", the "cherubim", and the "ophanim". The word “watcher” means to be wakeful (watch with me..”), to be awake/conscious, the idea being that these entities are continuously awake day and night, performing their functions. The ophanim are actually in Ezekiel chapters 1, 3 and 10, where the prophet sees the merkabah vision of God’s chariot. The ophanim are the wheel-angels (wheels within wheels). The term for wheel is “gilgal” (also means “wave” or “rolling”) which also connects with the “gilgal raphaim”, or ”the wheel of the giants”, which is at the foot of Mt Hermon. The wheel angels (or is there another spirit inside the wheels/ophanim, which is distinct from them? 🤔) are described as being cherubish, in that they also have 4 faces, however 1 of those 4 *is* the face of cherub… interesting. The ophanim also have numerous eyes, all along the periphery of their revolution.

16:57 - 21:25
Some people have wondered if Ezekiels vision of “wheels within wheels” is some sort of technological gyro, but Gary clarifies how theres clearly also an organic element to these beings (it’s covered in eyes, for one), as well as having interdimensional qualities. As an angel, they might be some type of fusion b/w the animalistic elements of the cherubim & seraphim (who are hybrid-animal monsters), somehow combined with some sort of advanced sacred technology. Mentions how in the Book of Revelation that the “four living beasts” are often thought to be the four cherubim of Ezekiel, however the “four living beasts” have 6 wings (whereas the cherubim have 2, and the ophanim have none - but the seraphim have 6), while the “four living beasts” also have 4 faces (just like the cherubim and the ophanim - but not the seraphim), plus the “four living beasts” are described as “full of eyes” (a quality of the ophanim). Are the “four living beasts” some type of combined mosaic of all the total imagery of the various watcher order of angels, some kind of inter-tessellated mega-watchers? Or some kind of ‘symbolic metaphor’ (whatever that means) that *all* the different types/classes of watchers are there present before the throne (nothing missing)? Gary suspects this imagery of angelic amalgamation suggests that, moving forward in God’s plan, that perhaps these angels aren’t going to hold the same position that they have been now going forward, that there’s some type of change/transition which has taken place in God’s throne room by the time of Revelation 4 (which also speaks to the 24 elders showing up) at the endtime and moving forward to the millennium, however Gary notes that this doesn’t apply to the seven archangels who still remain distinct and aren’t amalgamated. Eric draws comparison to Planck’s Constant, and shares a “biblically accurate christmas-tree topper” meme (hideous), and Gary makes offhand reference to the “thelemic tree also known as the cedar of mt hermon)

21:25 - 24:32
Asks Gary about the enochian phrase “angels of power, and angels of principalities”, asks if those are the same rank/categories or if they’re separate. Gary says they are separate and that in translations to English they often get mixed-up sometimes. Goes back to Greek term “archae” meaning “principality, sometimes “ruler”, the archae being “lower level” on the overall hierarchy, with the watchers on the top, then a level of intermediary angels, and below them a class of messenger/soldier angels. Talks about how all the orders (seraphim, ophanim, cherubim etc) probably all have their own internal structures/hierarchies, while also participating and having their own place in the overall broader angelic hierarchy.

24:32 - 25:24
Eric asks Gary to clarify how many different types of angels there are to which he answers probably 9 or 10. Says it might vary on classification, uses an example of the “mighty angels” found in Revelation (specifically the Greek term “ischuros”, meaning “strong”) so as to distinguish from the other angels mentioned in the New Testament, who’re usually rather termed “holy angels”.

25:24 - 29:20
Eric asks about the Semjaza episode atop mt hermon, and specifically what the broader biblical significance of what mt hermon represents. Eric briefly summarises the events of the 1 Enoch hermon narrative, how there’s a rebellious confederacy of angels, leaders of other angels and all under Semjaza, where they come together to form a pact and swear an oath, acknowledging it as “a very grievous sin”, in disrobing their angelic glory so as to unite with daughters of men, which ends up with them punished by God and locked up in the abyss. Gary makes a point that this is important both before and after the flood. Remarks that indeed the term “sons of God” refers to divine beings, as attested in the rest of the Old Testament especially Job 1 & 2, which clearly show the interchangeability of this term with “angels”, “holy ones”, “hosts of heaven” or “watchers” (in the case of Daniel 4). Gary calls the oath of the watchers the “harem anathema”, the accursed oath of mt hermon to carry out the oath to the very end, no matter what the consequences. Come from the hebrew term “haram”. On a different scale, this represents the broader oath-based nephilim society they’re establishing before the flood and how it’s this system of control by means of forbidden/accursed oaths by which the old antediluvian order can get carried-on and/or reborn after (“..the nephilim were in the land in those days, also afterward…”). Points out how after the flood, there becomes an association with swearing to the baalim at mt hermon, they being the ones in ugaritic texts accredited to creating the raphaim/giants. Oaths to the baalim would’ve been similar to the original “harem anathema”, which is more or less the oath-based world we ‘swim in’ to this day. Eric makes comparison to Jepthah in the book of Judges perhaps taking an unnecessary oath that he didn’t need to because God was going to give him victory anyway.

29:20 - 37:05
If the nephilim were all wiped out with the flood, then how did they wind up back on the scene again? Eric makes a point that just because angels created nephilim and fell before doesn’t mean the same thing can’t happen again per se, but then also makes a comment on how the angelic sin being described in the New Testament by Peter and Jude, in them foregoing their proper estate to “disrobe their outer bodies” to unite with human women. Gary prefers the “second incursion “ theory, as opposed to all the other theories of how the nephilim *survived* the flood somehow, and that the terminological distinction between “nephilim” and the later postdiluvian “raphaim” speaks to this. Irregardless, Gary states he recognises that there were perhaps some ways in which they could have survive the flood. One is the theory of an alternate ark, and that this type of method would fall under the umbrella`category of ‘help from fallen angels’. Mentions that not only are there universal flood myths from around the world, but that many of these are actually giant-survival stories as well. Prominen among these poatdivian myths is the epic of Gilgamesh, who is an example of a nephilim created after the flood, being the son of Lugulbanda king of Uruk and the fertility goddess Ninsun. Epic of Gilgamesh also has other archetypal nephilim-like characters (who’re also 2/3 god and 1/3 human, just like Gilgamesh and Enkidu) who are chosen by fallen angels to survive the flood by means of an ark supplied by fallen angels. Also makes mention of Deucalion (the “Greek Noah”) and Pyrrha, Deucalion being both a giant, as well as the son of Prometheus, making his myth another giant-survival story. Also posits the ideas that fallen angels could potentially take the giants into the earth (another dimension?) or that they could potentially take them off the earth, like w/ Deucalion. Another umbrella category of nephilim-survival theories is that giants maybe somehow survived on Noah’s ark, which Gary considers the least convincing. Enumerates some various theories, lol polytheists who think Ham was somehow a giant, or even that Noah and his whole family were actually giants, whereas others suggest something to do with tubal-Cain or king Og being stowaways somehow. Also, some Christians have speculated whether it was the wives who carried the nephilim “dna” and that this gets passed on to the canaanites etc. Gary points out that if you look at Genesis 6 & 7, God specifically says that He will destroy everything *He* created, and that this doesn’t necessarily include the nephilim since He didn’t create them. So maybe the fallen angels are still permitted to use their agency.

37:05 - 41:45
Hones in on what Semjaza says in 1 Enoch 6 about not wanting to be the sole guilty party as they’re squaring up to do the deed, worried the others won’t end up going through with it. therefore they take the according oaths, in order that they might be mutually bound-up in their sin. Gary sums up the template of the forsworn angels plan to raise up the “demigods”, who then in turn lead humanity away from the true God, and to swat oaths of allegiance as well as to direct worship to the demonic pantheon of hermon. The point is that the demigods are there to bring about not only the physical destruction of mankind, but also to corrupt them spiritually, so as to preclude them from reaching their destiny in all ways. Ultimately the conspiracy seems to be that only the demigods and their offspring will be the inhabitants of this world, and to dupe mankind into accepting a destiny that is fundamentally *less* than what God intended, specifically to tempt them to become like angels somehow, receiving the angelic lot rather than Christs.

Anyway I’m burnt out for now, might finish the rest later.


---

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Niemand
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Re: The Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canon) + NT, Doctrine & Covenants, POGP etc

Post by Niemand »

The Book of Enoch is popular on here. Here is some more material, including Enoch being used to promote Flat Earth ideas. It is buried in a very long thread about the Moon landings. Whatever one's view of the matter there are some good quotes in here.

viewtopic.php?f=5&p=903706#p903706
Son-of-Liberty wrote: January 6th, 2019, 11:12 amThe most important ancient document describing Hebrew cosmology is 1 Enoch (sometimes called the Ethiopic Book of Enoch), one of those long, disjointed, scissors and paste jobs beloved by ancient scribes. For a dozen or so centuries, European scholars knew 1 Enoch only from numerous passages preserved in the patristic literature.
The rest in italics for readability
The Ends of the Earth
The angel Uriel guided Enoch in most of his travels. They made several trips to the ends of the earth, where the dome of heaven came down to the surface. For instance, Enoch says:

I went to the extreme ends of the earth and saw there huge beasts, each different from the other and different birds (also) differing from one another in appearance, beauty, and voice. And to the east of those beasts, I saw the ultimate ends of the earth which rests on the heaven. And the gates of heaven were open, and I saw how the stars of heaven come out...(1 Enoch 33:1-2).

(The sharp-eyed reader will note what I suspect is an editing error in the Isaac translation. The earth resting on the heaven makes no sense. R. H. Charles has “whereon the heaven rests.”)

Again, Enoch says,
“I went in the direction of the north, to the extreme ends of the earth, and there at the extreme end of the whole world I saw a great and glorious seat. There (also) I saw three open gates of heaven; when it blows cold, hail, frost, snow, dew, and rain, through each one of the (gates) the winds proceed in the northwesterly direction (1 Enoch 34:1-2).”
This accords well with Jeremiah 51:16 which says, “he brings up the mist from the ends of the earth, he opens rifts for the rain and brings the wind out of his storehouses.” In subsequent chapters, Enoch journeys “to the extreme ends of the earth” in the west, south, and east. In each place he saw three more “open gates of heaven.”

There were other things to be seen at the ends of the earth. Earlier, we deferred discussion of the King James version of Job 26:7, “He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” On several occasions when Enoch and the angel are out beyond the dome of heaven, Enoch comments that there is nothing above or below. For instance, “And I came to an empty place. And I saw (there) neither a heaven above nor an earth below, but a chaotic and terrible place (1 Enoch 21:1-2).” Could this be the kind of nothingness referred to in Job?

An angel also showed Enoch the storerooms of the winds (18:1) and the cornerstone of the earth (18:2).

And what of the sun and moon? Psalm 19:4-6 (quoted earlier) suggest that the sun holes up at the ends of the earth until it is time to rise. Enoch expands upon this idea. In 1 Enoch 41:5, he “saw the storerooms of the sun and the moon, from what place they go out and to which place they return...” Further, “they keep faith one with another: in accordance with an oath they set and they rise.”

Enoch discusses the solar and lunar motions at length, explaining why the apparent azimuths of their rising and setting varies with the season. The explanation, found in the section called “The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries,” begins thus:

This is the first commandment of the luminaries: The sun is a luminary whose egress is an opening of heaven, which is (located) in the direction of the east, and whose ingress is (another) opening of heaven, (located) in the west. I saw six openings through which the sun rises and six openings through which it sets. The moon also rises and sets through the same openings, and they are guided by the stars; together with those whom they lead, they are six in the east and six in the west heaven. All of them (are arranged) one after another in a constant order. There are many windows (both) to the right and the left of these openings. First there goes out the great light whose name is the sun; its roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and it is totally filled with light and heat. The chariot in which it ascends is (driven by) the blowing wind. The sun sets in the sky (in the west) and returns by the northeast in order to go to the east; it is guided so that it shall reach the eastern gate and shine in the face of the sky (1 Enoch 72:2-5)


The openings in the vault of heaven in the east and west are matched to the seasons. On the longest day of the year, the sun rises and sets through the northernmost pair. On the shortest day, it rises and sets through the southernmost pair. The return routes of the sun and moon are outside the dome. Perhaps they rest in their “storerooms” during their time off.

The Stars
Like the Bible, 1 Enoch typically depicts stars as living, anthropomorphic beings. The Sons of the Gods are also dealt with in 1 Enoch, and they are associated with stars. This is consistent with Job 38:7, which says that when the earth's cornerstone was laid “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted aloud.”

As mentioned earlier, Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 deal with stars that fall to earth. The image comes from Enoch, but Matthew and John omit some details. In 1 Enoch 88:1, a star that fell from the sky is seized, bound hand and foot, and thrown into an abyss. A few verses later, other stars “whose sexual organs were like the organs of horses” are likewise bound hand and foot and cast “into the pits of the earth (1 Enoch 88:3).”

Most stars just go through their motions night after night. Some stars never set, and Enoch was shown their chariots (1 Enoch 75:8). Stars that do rise and set do so through openings in dome, just like the sun and moon. God, according to 1 Enoch, runs a tight universe, and stars that do not rise on time are thrown into the celestial slammer. Showing Enoch a hellish scene, the angel Uriel explains:

This place is the (ultimate) end of heaven and earth: it is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven. And the stars which roll over upon the fire, they are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of God from the beginning of their rising because they did not arrive punctually (1 Enoch 18:14-15).

Enoch was not told the sentence for tardy rising, but Uriel later shows him other stars “which have transgressed the commandments of the Lord,” for which they were doing ten million years of hard time (1 Enoch 21:6). Enoch also was shown an even more terrible place, a fiery prison house where fallen angels were detained forever (1 Enoch 21:10).

1 Enoch deserves study for its cosmology, but there is much more of interest. It profoundly influenced Christian eschatology, and it is necessary reading for anyone trying to understand Hebrew religious thought at the dawn of the Christian era.


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Does the Book of Enoch corroborate the Book of Moses? Kirtland RM mentions this and the Book of Giants
viewtopic.php?p=965831
kirtland r.m. wrote: September 22nd, 2019, 7:09 pm Joseph’s Luckiest “Guess” From the Book of Moses (About Enoch’s Pal, Mahujah)

"If Joseph Smith is simply drawing off of what he could learn from his KJV Bible, Mahijah should not exist in the Book of Moses (because it doesn’t exist in the Bible). And, technically, you’d expect Mahujah only to show up in the form expressed in the Bible: Mehujael.

And yet, the fact remains that both of the names Joseph uses in the Book of Moses are found in authentic biblical texts Joseph would have had no access to. Either Joseph was an unbelievably lucky fraud, or he was a prophet of God."
cachemagic wrote: September 22nd, 2019, 8:03 pm Mahujah also shows up for the first time in the Book of Enoch fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls that were first published in 1976 (J. T. Milik and M. Black, eds., The Books of Enoch, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4, Oxford: Clarenden Press, 1976.) And he is doing exactly what Mahijah does in (Moses 6:40), he is asking questions of Enoch.
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