Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

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Niemand
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

Post by Niemand »

Trucker wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 6:16 am I can understand the church not wanting to be seen as "weird." But it wasn't just that. The church wanted to be seen as "cool" and in the process emboldened the members that used to be a little wordy to be proud that they were not the old-fashioned weirdos. Large families were weird. Small families, cool. Women at home, weird. Career women, good. This had a cultural effect throughout the church members.
I always saw it the opposite. We have a lot of members who don't fit into the mould, including me. People join with all kinds of situations that don't fit the stereotype. We have people join who are covered in tattoos. We have people who are disabled. We have people who are artistic or sportsmen.

Most of the sisters work because in this economy you have to work. It's expensive having children. Some of our sisters are widows with children, or single mothers or divorced or whatever. Some of the single mothers convert after all this happened or the man ran off. This may not be ideal but the idea that we are all nice happy families like the Osmonds' (former) public image is nonsense. I wish that was the case. Some people join when they're too old to have children as well. So there's that too.

There was an ugly side to that whole happy family thing. I know for a fact there are some men and women who can't have children for medical reasons. They will usually be private about it but I've seen them pestered in our ward about when they will have their first child. Then there are people like me who struggle with dating, let alone relationships and/or marriage.
Also, it just so happened that shortly before the I'm a Mormon campaign, The Church of Scientology did a similar thing with "I'm a Scientologist" videos. They did it before us. And it kind of makes you pause to wonder why there aren't campaign about "I'm a Methodist" or "I'm a Baptist", but there are for Scientology....and....us. Not sure we want to be in the same camp as them.
They probably stole it from them.

There are other similar campaigns in mainstream churches. I've seen the Quakers do something similar.

GeeR
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

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Trucker wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 2:56 pm
That's what happened to us. IMO it really started during of the Olympics.
Actually the apostasy of the church started as soon as 1836 and has evolved the apostasy to what it is today!

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mudflap
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

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More Jim Stone conversations today: http://www.voterig.com/.up2.html
My opinion is that Miscavige looks so bad during conferences that it is baffling it would ever be accepted. But it flew anyway. I guess he's better than the current Mormon First Presidency though, at least he told everyone to avoid the MRNA vax.
we're worse than the Scientologists now.

maybe the church WILL end up being persecuted after all....

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

Post by BuriedTartaria »

I appreciate his willingness to extend an olive branch by saying he feels God has been involved with the Mormons to some extent. That’s a cordial gesture that opens up self reflection and conversation between Mormons and non-Mormons that often isn’t found due to the anger and hate non-Mormons typically feel with the idea of anything related to Mormonism being legitimate.

I think there could be truth to divinity in the Catholic Church at one point (and perhaps it being there at one point echoes a degree of light in their house today even if their flame is burned out). I appreciate a lot about Christian culture. But I know most will really dislike me for my belief in what they believe to be a purely fictional book

I understand not believing in the Book of Mormon. There’s no need to seethe in anger over my belief in it though especially in this awakening of more people thinking there is truth to the idea of buried history and civilizations, particularly in North America lands.

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Ymarsakar
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

Post by Ymarsakar »

Trucker wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 2:56 pm
mudflap wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 12:20 pm and I don't think it was only the abortion clinics that caused a loss of prophecy - I think it was huge houses up on the hills of SLC, more and more debt, less and less humility, and of course, more and more pride.
I have mentioned my experiences before, but I had a pretty good seat viewing the church change in the 2000's. It actually was noticeable when the Olympics came to Salt Lake. Suddenly we (the church) were very concerned about what the world thought of us. The world was coming over to dinner, and by golly you kids (the members) better be on your good behavior and not embarrass us (the church leaders)! This is when it became ok to burn the members for the praise of the world. The world is coming to Utah! the world is coming to Utah! Change the steeples on the church. Fix up the parking lots. Get more PR people and train them up. Have leadership meetings for the Bishops to know what to say and when to keep their mouths shut and let us do the talking!

And then it continued...The "I'm a Mormon" campaign started and the church decided who it wanted to showcase. It wasn't the grandmother of 9 kids, or the pudgy regular-guy bishop in Hebrew City, Utah. No, it was the skateboarder, the fashion designer, the photographer. the single-mom entrepreneur. The explicit (I was there, first hand) direction was to show the world that mormon's were not just the grandmother of 9 kids and pudgy rural bishop. It was intentional to show the world that "see, we're not weird!" That was the entire point of the I'm a Mormon campaign. We had build boards in Time Square, signs on busses in London...and to change the world's impression of us that we were weird. No, world! We're cool too!

Then came the 2012 presidential election and....Mitt Romney. This effort to show that "Mormon's are cool, don't hate us" got ratcheted up to 11. Now the church was really going to be scrutinized, and judged, and discussed in "the world arena" in the news and debates. Oh, no! Make sure no church member embarrasses us! Get "cool" mormons out front. Get some important business men in as General Authorities. Make connections with governments the UN, and anyone important at the national and international level. Sweat. Sweat. Sweat. And if Mitt Romney's wins....Oh, goodness, the waters will overflow! People will flock to the church. Like several articles in the Deseret News said, "people will notice a certain special twinkle in the eye of Mitt Romney and member of the church and will want to know what that is!" We need to create church computer systems to handle 20 million, no 50 million members! (This is real, I was there). Mitt Romney may even save the country from hanging by a thread! And the world will love us!

Now at this point, the trajectory has already been set. "Good" members of the church befriend the world and are admired by the world. "Bad" members are weird, old-fashioned, embarrassing and they need to not set the tone or bet set up as the example, inside the church or out, of who we are.

So proceeding down the path, we (the church) befriend the popular organizations in the world, ew say the right things to fit in, we more and more disavow the things that made us "peculiar." In fact, in order to stay popular with the world, we have to denounce and disavow racism, survivalism, sexism, homophobia, etc, etc, etc. We (the church) will no longer stand for our principles. We got smacked down with Pop 8 and we learned our lesson.

We as a church change, and it's ok because...uh...the restoration is continuing! And...uh...the stupid members had all these wrong ideas (where'd they get the from, anyway?) but we are a good church and support the right causes. And by the way, we are super rich. Now we can buy friends and donate millions of dollars so people like us. Revelation!

Lot's of member don't like this. They don't like our history either. Well, stay in the boat! Declare your allegiance to the prophet! Praise! Praise! Praise him! Or else you are bad, and are going to be lost. Placate to the women! Talk about progress and change things so it seems they are getting power (but we'll just keep it), and then the women will like us! Yes, stupid members have been mistreating women in the church for too long, and the poor leaders have been trying to correct that. You are bad if you don't like it, and you are opposing God.

That's what happened to us. IMO it really started during of the Olympics. The root is wanting the praise of the world, and once that started we do whatever we need to, and change whatever we need to. To the point that a lot of members question if the Lord still recognizes this as his church.
This was a very good look in the lds communities beforr 2016. Thanks.

I have digested more now.

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Aussie
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Re: Jim Stone calls out the Mormons

Post by Aussie »

I don't know who Jim Stone is but I think he is right about President Nelson not being a prophet called of God but I don't think any of them have been called of God except Joseph Smith. JS wanted Hyrum to be the next prophet and if Hyrum died he wanted Samuel Smith. When the other leaders saw the letter saying Samuel should be the next prophet he ended deliberately poisoned and died. Brigham became a prophet and was not called of God, the devil maybe but not God! So I don't believe any have been actually called of God because where's their Urim and Thummin? Some may have been better men than others with better inspiration but even old Jim Stone is pretty inspired himself. We are all given inspiration and revelation if we truly love the Lord and are striving to be righteous enough to receive.

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