Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
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Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/letters/ ... ansgender/
Letter: In line with the ban on transgender health care, we shouldn’t allow kids to make decisions about religion
As a practicing psychotherapist for nearly 25 years, I am accustomed to life in an anti-science state. I was nevertheless appalled by the state’s recent decision to further harm our transgender youth, notwithstanding the best research on this topic: “Gender-affirming care has been shown to reduce suicide ideation and attempts in transgender individuals, along with social support, familial support, and reduction of discrimination.”
If, indeed, transgender youth and their parents are unable to make decisions about their own health and welfare, surely it is inappropriate to permit eight-year-olds to make decisions about religion. After all, a significant percentage of those who join the LDS Church ultimately end, or significantly reduce, their affiliation with the organization.
Many of those who sever ties with the LDS Church report having been harmed by their involvement. For some, the damage is profound and long-lasting.
How can an eight-year-old, in response to years of indoctrination and pressure, make an informed “decision” to be baptized? How many of our youth are harmed by this practice?
If we truly care about our children, let’s protect them from their parents and other adults, who are clearly too biased to make these decisions for our children. Let’s require our youth to wait until they are adults before making life-altering decisions about church membership.
Letter: In line with the ban on transgender health care, we shouldn’t allow kids to make decisions about religion
As a practicing psychotherapist for nearly 25 years, I am accustomed to life in an anti-science state. I was nevertheless appalled by the state’s recent decision to further harm our transgender youth, notwithstanding the best research on this topic: “Gender-affirming care has been shown to reduce suicide ideation and attempts in transgender individuals, along with social support, familial support, and reduction of discrimination.”
If, indeed, transgender youth and their parents are unable to make decisions about their own health and welfare, surely it is inappropriate to permit eight-year-olds to make decisions about religion. After all, a significant percentage of those who join the LDS Church ultimately end, or significantly reduce, their affiliation with the organization.
Many of those who sever ties with the LDS Church report having been harmed by their involvement. For some, the damage is profound and long-lasting.
How can an eight-year-old, in response to years of indoctrination and pressure, make an informed “decision” to be baptized? How many of our youth are harmed by this practice?
If we truly care about our children, let’s protect them from their parents and other adults, who are clearly too biased to make these decisions for our children. Let’s require our youth to wait until they are adults before making life-altering decisions about church membership.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
There are a couple of countries where the Church is in its infancy in Central Asia that require prospective members to be 18 before they get baptized. This was also the case during the November policy that lasted four years, in which kids living in a same sex family had to wait until they were adults.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
This is a strange thing to say, because I know this shrink has the wrong motives and is trolling... but in many cases eight is too young for many people to be baptised and it is clear that a) they don't understand it at that age and b) it is so young they barely remember it. They may also end up not converting fully since they assume they are already converted (if that makes sense).
But there is a massive difference between physical/hormonal intervention and leaving a church. You can leave the LDS easily but you're not going to get sliced off genitalia back or reverse a puberty you later reject.
But there is a massive difference between physical/hormonal intervention and leaving a church. You can leave the LDS easily but you're not going to get sliced off genitalia back or reverse a puberty you later reject.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
I wasn't aware of these situations.Subcomandante wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:09 am There are a couple of countries where the Church is in its infancy in Central Asia that require prospective members to be 18 before they get baptized. This was also the case during the November policy that lasted four years, in which kids living in a same sex family had to wait until they were adults.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
The November policy was worse than that. It said if one of the parents was in such a relationship /marriage then the baptism could not go ahead.Subcomandante wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:09 am There are a couple of countries where the Church is in its infancy in Central Asia that require prospective members to be 18 before they get baptized. This was also the case during the November policy that lasted four years, in which kids living in a same sex family had to wait until they were adults.
So you could be a man (or woman) who is heterosexual, but whose former spouse has run off with somebody of the same sex and your child could be prohibited from being baptised whatever the child's opinion of the matter and even if the child was estranged from that parent. The policy was a total mess whichever side of the LGBT argument you fall on.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
You can't easily undo complex trauma and psychological abuse either - but that also goes along with transitioning and de-transitioning.Niemand wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:09 am This is a strange thing to say, because I know this shrink has the wrong motives and is trolling... but in many cases eight is too young for many people to be baptised and it is clear that a) they don't understand it at that age and b) it is so young they barely remember it. They may also end up not converting fully since they assume they are already converted (if that makes sense).
But there is a massive difference between physical/hormonal intervention and leaving a church. You can leave the LDS easily but you're not going to get sliced off genitalia back or reverse a puberty you later reject.
I was much too immature to be baptized at 8. I was told I was getting baptized next week, so I started REALLLLLYYYY cussing up a storm (not just the little words) and using all kinds of fun profanity the week before - to "get it out of my system" . Then the week after I was baptized, I was a jerk to my little brother - bragging that I was "perfect now" and I would go to heaven if the world blew up, but he would not.
I was bummed there were no treats at my baptism, I was embarrassed wearing the weird jail pants jumpsuit, half the other kids in the stake got baptized that day, I was lucky my parents remembered to bring me, my stepdad was more worried about him looking good than teaching me about the ordinance or the big deal it was supposed to be for me...
Ya I had no friggin clue what I was doing age 8 - and my parents didn't know any better than I did, or teach me a thing except how to run from a beating.
I'm so glad nobody told me when I was 8 that being a tomboy as I was, that meant I should change my genitals. I was 8, I might have believed them.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Ya a mess.Niemand wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:52 amThe November policy was worse than that. It said if one of the parents was in such a relationship /marriage then the baptism could not go ahead.Subcomandante wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:09 am There are a couple of countries where the Church is in its infancy in Central Asia that require prospective members to be 18 before they get baptized. This was also the case during the November policy that lasted four years, in which kids living in a same sex family had to wait until they were adults.
So you could be a man (or woman) who is heterosexual, but whose former spouse has run off with somebody of the same sex and your child could be prohibited from being baptised whatever the child's opinion of the matter and even if the child was estranged from that parent. The policy was a total mess whichever side of the LGBT argument you fall on.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Yeah, that was nuts...I think the nuttier aspect of this was to claim that both the 2015 and the 2019 revisions constituted revelation from God. More like throwing darts in the dark hoping something sticks.Niemand wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:52 amThe November policy was worse than that. It said if one of the parents was in such a relationship /marriage then the baptism could not go ahead.Subcomandante wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 4:09 am There are a couple of countries where the Church is in its infancy in Central Asia that require prospective members to be 18 before they get baptized. This was also the case during the November policy that lasted four years, in which kids living in a same sex family had to wait until they were adults.
So you could be a man (or woman) who is heterosexual, but whose former spouse has run off with somebody of the same sex and your child could be prohibited from being baptised whatever the child's opinion of the matter and even if the child was estranged from that parent. The policy was a total mess whichever side of the LGBT argument you fall on.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
D&C 68:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
Edited to add Section number
D&C 68:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
Edited to add Section number
Last edited by BigT on February 3rd, 2023, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Maybe I misread that, I think the psychologist is using LDS baptism as an example of why kids should be able to be talked into mutilation.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
That's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
No, it's not. It's the word of God. Be patient, it will all be fulfilled.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:56 amThat's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
I agree that many children, though, don't fully understand baptism. I remember telling my mother when I was 7 and a half years old that I was going to do every bad thing I could because once I got baptized it would all go away.
I thought baptism was a magical get out of jail free card. My first mistake was telling my mother. I hadn't quite figured out that bad people don't inform on themselves to their moms.
But, I think that event did put me on the gospel path, however fitfully. I'm very grateful for it and have tried to hold fast to the word of God.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Everyone is too young(immature) to make the decision to transition. If you are thinking about transitioning you are to mentally immature, any other rationale is of evil.
Is eight days old too young to decide about circumcision?
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,
Is eight days old too young to decide about circumcision?
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
The worst part of this topic about baptism and age?
Mother’s will divorce their husbands without fornication involved and then make sure their 8 year old gets baptized. It helps them justify that they are doing the lord’s work.
How does a good fruit come from a bad tree? It can happen, it isn’t the norm.
Mother’s will divorce their husbands without fornication involved and then make sure their 8 year old gets baptized. It helps them justify that they are doing the lord’s work.
How does a good fruit come from a bad tree? It can happen, it isn’t the norm.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
I suspect that the average maturity level of an 8-year-old in Joseph Smith's time is much different than it is today. For one thing, most children at that age were outworking most teenagers today.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:56 amThat's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
In other words, the parents are ripening generations to sin, one of them being transgenderism. Not be happy with their bodies / identity due to idle hands.anonymous91 wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 10:42 amI suspect that the average maturity level of an 8-year-old in Joseph Smith's time is much different than it is today. For one thing, most children at that age were outworking most teenagers today.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:56 amThat's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
We started this with the stay at home mother who didn’t have to run a small farm to feed her family.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
A mother should only be a stay-at-home mom if she has to run a small farm???Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 11:47 amIn other words, the parents are ripening generations to sin, one of them being transgenderism. Not be happy with their bodies / identity due to idle hands.anonymous91 wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 10:42 amI suspect that the average maturity level of an 8-year-old in Joseph Smith's time is much different than it is today. For one thing, most children at that age were outworking most teenagers today.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:56 amThat's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
We started this with the stay at home mother who didn’t have to run a small farm to feed her family.
Dude that is nonsense
A woman should stay at home to care for the kids and house.....not out working for the government and having the state raise the children.
What are you taking about my guy lol
This started exactly because women aren't in the home
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
IMOBigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
D&C 68:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
Edited to add Section number
Seems only for those in "Zion " -- which we certainly are not
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
It did say Zion and in 1831 there was still hope they might achieve it. No hope now until the Marvelous Work is humming along.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Well that's a big one I missed in 40 years of Mormonism holy cow....BigT wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:29 am I tend to agree that 8 is too young to get baptized. But then there’s this:
D&C 68:
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26 For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27 And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
Is this only for people living in “Zion” (which we certainly aren’t) or does it apply to everyone?
Edited to add Section number
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
Yes, it is. An 8 day old kid doesn't EVER get to make that decision for themself. Their parents do.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 9:43 am Everyone is too young(immature) to make the decision to transition. If you are thinking about transitioning you are to mentally immature, any other rationale is of evil.
Is eight days old too young to decide about circumcision?
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,
I'm sure that 8 year old didn't consent to the deviant pedo sexual abuse part of the ritual either. I believe a person is mentally ill for allowing this ^^^^ to be done to their child, as much as they are mentally ill if they allow their child to transition.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
What studies did you base that on?? That's sure as hell not what I did.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 9:48 am The worst part of this topic about baptism and age?
Mother’s will divorce their husbands without fornication involved and then make sure their 8 year old gets baptized. It helps them justify that they are doing the lord’s work.
How does a good fruit come from a bad tree? It can happen, it isn’t the norm.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
I know to many TBM’s with 2-3 kids, mom stays at home and the state raises the kids. I’m not even going to talk about the dominance the women demands In running the household in today’s clown world, which is a sin. 2 Nephi 13:12nightlight wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 12:04 pmA mother should only be a stay-at-home mom if she has to run a small farm???Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 11:47 amIn other words, the parents are ripening generations to sin, one of them being transgenderism. Not be happy with their bodies / identity due to idle hands.anonymous91 wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 10:42 amI suspect that the average maturity level of an 8-year-old in Joseph Smith's time is much different than it is today. For one thing, most children at that age were outworking most teenagers today.Redpilled Mormon wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 8:56 am
That's from D&C right? Seems like more and more evidence keeps piling up that D&C is garbage...
We started this with the stay at home mother who didn’t have to run a small farm to feed her family.
Dude that is nonsense
A woman should stay at home to care for the kids and house.....not out working for the government and having the state raise the children.
What are you taking about my guy lol
This started exactly because women aren't in the home
Women worked in Jesus day, wine press and grinding mill, alongside men.
Was Adam only commanded to feed the family?
You should be one with your wife…..
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
They do it because they worship the devilFoxMammaWisdom wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 12:58 pmYes, it is. An 8 day old kid doesn't EVER get to make that decision for themself. Their parents do.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 9:43 am Everyone is too young(immature) to make the decision to transition. If you are thinking about transitioning you are to mentally immature, any other rationale is of evil.
Is eight days old too young to decide about circumcision?
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,
I'm sure that 8 year old didn't consent to the deviant pedo sexual abuse part of the ritual either.
f13ded3bd3e0b0ff.jpeg
I believe a person is mentally ill for allowing this ^^^^ to be done to their child, as much as they are mentally ill if they allow their child to transition.
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Re: Psychologist believes 8 year olds are too young to make trans decisions AND decisions RE: their eternal salvation
My eyes…. Do you live in a Spanish speaking area? I did in San Diego. I have even seen parents get divorced here in a none Spanish speaking area and right after the divorce both of them got up in sob Sunday to talk about the blessings of going to the temple.FoxMammaWisdom wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 1:05 pmWhat studies did you base that on?? That's sure as hell not what I did.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2023, 9:48 am The worst part of this topic about baptism and age?
Mother’s will divorce their husbands without fornication involved and then make sure their 8 year old gets baptized. It helps them justify that they are doing the lord’s work.
How does a good fruit come from a bad tree? It can happen, it isn’t the norm.
Clown world