Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

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GeeR
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Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

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Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World?
By Chuck Baldwin
January 26, 2023



Just who are the biggest hypocrites in the world? The following are my nominees:

Progressive Liberal Democrats

These people seem to have a penchant for utter insanity. Call it “horse sense” or “common sense,” but whatever you call it, these folks have a natural immunity against it.

Their love of Big Government makes them idolaters. Their zealotry for all things unconstitutional, un-American, anti-God and anti-Natural Law makes them, well, seriously misguided.

They demand open borders and proclaim their cities “sanctuary cities,” but when the illegals begin showing up at their doorsteps, they are the loudest to scream about how unfair it is that they should have to actually follow through with their very own policies demanding illegal aliens be provided with virtually every welfare program on the books—in THEIR communities. They even have the audacity to put them on buses—just like Red State governors—and send them somewhere else.

Folks, that is classic A-Number-One hypocrisy!

Then they do everything they can to disarm the American citizenry and trash the Second Amendment to our Constitution all the while living and working behind some of the most heavily armed security guards on the planet—and if somehow they don’t have that luxury, they are packing heat in their own homes.

Boy, you’ve got to hand it to them. They seem to have adopted Hypocrisy as a Family Tree.

Neocon Republicans

This is the largest group of Republicans, by the way.

Boy, they know how to talk; but like most little children, they just haven’t learned how to walk.

Take the GOP verbiage about fiscal responsibility and sound money practices: It’s just HOT AIR. They don’t mean a word they say. I think hypocrisy is an apt description here.

The debt ceiling debate is a relevant case in point.

It seems like just yesterday that the debt-ceiling circus returned to Washington. Actually, it was October 2021, a little over two years ago. That circus was just like all the ones that preceded it. The mainstream press and other acolytes of the welfare-warfare state issued all sorts of dire predictions if the debt ceiling wasn’t raised. As soon as the debt-ceiling was raised, no one advocated cutting government spending to prepare for the next time that the debt ceiling was reached. Everyone knew that as soon as the new debt ceiling was reached, they could do the same thing again.

In other words, for the past two years, it has been business as usual — federal government expenditures exceeding tax revenues by around $1 trillion per year. And everyone knew that within a couple of years, the debt ceiling would be reached again.

But perhaps the most noteworthy thing to notice about the debt-ceiling circus is Republicans. Whenever there is a Republican president, Republicans stay silent about or, even worse, supportive of out-of-control spending and debt. President Trump, for example, added around $8 trillion to the national debt. You could call him the King of Debt. The Republican members of Congress were as quiet as church mice or, even worse, wildly supportive of their big-spender and big-debt leader.

Now that the debt ceiling has been reached under Democrat president Joe Biden, the Republicans have suddenly discovered their inner secret self of fiscal responsibility. They are demanding that Biden agree to undefined reductions in federal spending as a condition for agreeing to lift the debt ceiling. For his part, Biden says he’s not budging. He’s determined to continue the out-of-control federal spending and debt spree, no matter what.

Let me tell you how this ends. The Republicans will cave. Republicans always cave. This time will be no different. Oh, sure, they might finally get Biden and the Democrats to agree to some minor reduction in spending — no doubt spread over the next 10 years, but for all practical purposes it will do nothing to prevent the federal government from continuing to hurl America into national bankruptcy.

When it comes to spending and debt, Republicans are right up there with Democrats, especially considering their unwavering devotion and subserviency to the national-security establishment — i.e., the Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA.

How long have we heard Republicans calling for a “balanced-budget amendment”? Decades! But it’s all been idle, hypocritical chatter.

(Source)

Then there is the issue of abortion. Republicans love to call themselves “pro-life.” But it’s just a cliché; nothing more. Oh, they don’t mind passing timid “pro-life” bills, but when it comes to the real nuts and bolts issue, Personhood, they do everything they can to avoid it—and will often oppose it—behind closed doors, of course.

Now that SCOTUS has courageously overturned Roe v Wade, Red states across America should be making Personhood amendments to their constitutions Priority Number One. That has been the central issue in this debate all along.

A Personhood amendment is in complete harmony with American Liberty as expressed by Thomas Jefferson in our Declaration of Independence, where he stated:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men. [Emphasis added.]

A baby’s conception in the womb is the endowment of our Creator with the unalienable right of life. If Republicans were truly pro-life, they would be fighting tooth and nail for the legal protection for all unborn life via a Personhood amendment that recognizes and protects life in the womb.

But, no! Republicans nationwide are all but totally ignoring (or opposing) the Personhood issue. And that goes for the so-called pro-life nonprofits like National Right to Life and James Dobson’s “family” groups—including the Montana Family Foundation and its controlled opposition leader Jeff Laszloffy.

Therefore, along with the liberal progressive Democrats, these neocon Republicans well deserve the nomination for the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Evangelical Christian Zionists

If the first two groups qualify as hypocrites, this group defines the word.

As Doc Holliday said in the movie Tombstone, “It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds,” so, too, the hypocrisy of evangelical Christian Zionists knows no bounds.

In my message last Sunday, I said:

I submit that the Christians who are so quick to condemn Russia for its war in Ukraine but sit back in utter silence and indifference to the Israeli war on the Palestinians are among the greatest of hypocrites!

This report illustrates what I’m saying:

The son of Palestinian refugees from Gaza, now in Toronto, Sabawi’s invite to the exclusive organisation, where membership is reserved for “exceptional people”, had come off the back of his founding of TABO, an initiative dedicated to expanding property rights in Palestine, and his Toronto-based company with offices in Gaza, Open Screenplay, which aims to help diverse screenwriters start their careers.

That recognition was a big deal; YGL’s ties to the WEF meant access to some of the world’s biggest names and invitations to the WEF’s annual summit which is being held this week in Davos, Switzerland.

However, in September of last year, Al Sabawi was suspended indefinitely from the YGL community.

Al Sabawi believes the suspension was retribution for a letter he and other YGL members had sent to Schwab, accusing the WEF of being silent on Israel’s actions in the occupied Palestinian territory at the same time that it was expressing solidarity with Ukraine after Russia’s invasion of the country.

“While we profoundly support your public statement in solidarity with the people of Ukraine, we cannot help but also feel immensely hurt that the WEF is selective when it comes to morality and solidarity based on nationality,” the letter, sent in March, said.

According to emails shown to Al Jazeera by Al Sabawi, Schwab responded angrily, saying Ukraine was a “special case” and that the content of the letter was “deeply insulting” and “offensive”. He threatened to dissolve the YGL.

The dispute between Schwab and the YGL members had begun earlier, in the summer of 2021, during Israel’s war on Gaza. At least 260 Palestinians were killed in that assault, including more than 60 children.

At the time, Al Sabawi and a number of other YGL members wrote an initial letter to WEF and Schwab, in which they called on the organisation to denounce Israel for its actions in Gaza.

“As members of the Young Global Leaders (YGL) and Global Shapers community, we are proud to represent and further the values espoused by the World Economic Forum and answer your call for responsible leadership,” the letter said.

“Today, we feel these values are being tested by our collective silence as a community vis-à-vis the atrocities and violence being committed by Israel against the Palestinian people.”

For Al Sabawi, the war in Gaza was personal. Beyond being a Palestinian from Gaza, he says, his company Open Screenplay’s office in the blockaded territory was bombed, resulting in four deaths and leaving employees traumatised.

“Israel’s airstrikes impacted Schwab’s very own YGL members,” Al Sabawi told Al Jazeera. “We were traumatised beyond belief and outraged by the indiscriminate attacks. Myself and over a thousand YGL and WEF stakeholders believed Schwab must take a stand.”

However, in response to their plea, Schwab wrote an article on the WEF website highlighting that the organisation needed to remain neutral.

“Impartiality and neutrality are enshrined in our charter as an international organization. We also built it into all our governance rules, allowing people to associate with the Forum independent of their race, nationality, gender or political conviction, knowing that the purpose of the Forum is to improve the state of the world through dialogue and action-oriented collaboration,” the article said.

Schwab backtracked on that position when, along with the WEF, he issued a statement in February 2022, condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine.

“When the WEF took a clear stand against the invasion of Ukraine, that’s when we were outraged,” YGL member and fellow signatory Ramzi Jaber said.

“We were told that WEF cannot speak out against injustice because it is a neutral body and simply cannot take a public stance – only to see a few months later that the WEF took a strong stand on the war on Ukraine and expressed solidarity with Ukraine,” YGL member Mary Nazzal said.

“This is undoubtedly welcome and encouraged of course. But what is not welcome are double standards.”

Evangelicals who are preaching sermons and hosting radio and television programs vehemently condemning Russia’s war in Ukraine, while at the same time remaining silent, mute and dumb in condemning Israel’s war on the Palestinians should love Klaus Schwab. That is exactly what he is doing. Schwab even gave Ukraine’s First Lady a major speaking role at the WEF meeting last week in Switzerland.

Double standards? The WEF and evangelical Christian Zionists are filled with double standards!

So, I repeat what I said last Sunday:

Christians who are so quick to condemn Russia for its war in Ukraine but sit back in utter silence and indifference to the Israeli war on the Palestinians are among the greatest of hypocrites!

So, just who are the biggest hypocrites in the world? The three finalists are listed above. Take your pick.
By Chuck Baldwin
January 26, 2023


Just who are the biggest hypocrites in the world? The following are my nominees:

Progressive Liberal Democrats

These people seem to have a penchant for utter insanity. Call it “horse sense” or “common sense,” but whatever you call it, these folks have a natural immunity against it.

Their love of Big Government makes them idolaters. Their zealotry for all things unconstitutional, un-American, anti-God and anti-Natural Law makes them, well, seriously misguided.

They demand open borders and proclaim their cities “sanctuary cities,” but when the illegals begin showing up at their doorsteps, they are the loudest to scream about how unfair it is that they should have to actually follow through with their very own policies demanding illegal aliens be provided with virtually every welfare program on the books—in THEIR communities. They even have the audacity to put them on buses—just like Red State governors—and send them somewhere else.

Folks, that is classic A-Number-One hypocrisy!

Then they do everything they can to disarm the American citizenry and trash the Second Amendment to our Constitution all the while living and working behind some of the most heavily armed security guards on the planet—and if somehow they don’t have that luxury, they are packing heat in their own homes.

Boy, you’ve got to hand it to them. They seem to have adopted Hypocrisy as a Family Tree.

Neocon Republicans

This is the largest group of Republicans, by the way.

Boy, they know how to talk; but like most little children, they just haven’t learned how to walk.

Take the GOP verbiage about fiscal responsibility and sound money practices: It’s just HOT AIR. They don’t mean a word they say. I think hypocrisy is an apt description here.

The debt ceiling debate is a relevant case in point.

It seems like just yesterday that the debt-ceiling circus returned to Washington. Actually, it was October 2021, a little over two years ago. That circus was just like all the ones that preceded it. The mainstream press and other acolytes of the welfare-warfare state issued all sorts of dire predictions if the debt ceiling wasn’t raised. As soon as the debt-ceiling was raised, no one advocated cutting government spending to prepare for the next time that the debt ceiling was reached. Everyone knew that as soon as the new debt ceiling was reached, they could do the same thing again.

In other words, for the past two years, it has been business as usual — federal government expenditures exceeding tax revenues by around $1 trillion per year. And everyone knew that within a couple of years, the debt ceiling would be reached again.

But perhaps the most noteworthy thing to notice about the debt-ceiling circus is Republicans. Whenever there is a Republican president, Republicans stay silent about or, even worse, supportive of out-of-control spending and debt. President Trump, for example, added around $8 trillion to the national debt. You could call him the King of Debt. The Republican members of Congress were as quiet as church mice or, even worse, wildly supportive of their big-spender and big-debt leader.

Now that the debt ceiling has been reached under Democrat president Joe Biden, the Republicans have suddenly discovered their inner secret self of fiscal responsibility. They are demanding that Biden agree to undefined reductions in federal spending as a condition for agreeing to lift the debt ceiling. For his part, Biden says he’s not budging. He’s determined to continue the out-of-control federal spending and debt spree, no matter what.

Let me tell you how this ends. The Republicans will cave. Republicans always cave. This time will be no different. Oh, sure, they might finally get Biden and the Democrats to agree to some minor reduction in spending — no doubt spread over the next 10 years, but for all practical purposes it will do nothing to prevent the federal government from continuing to hurl America into national bankruptcy.

When it comes to spending and debt, Republicans are right up there with Democrats, especially considering their unwavering devotion and subserviency to the national-security establishment — i.e., the Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA.

How long have we heard Republicans calling for a “balanced-budget amendment”? Decades! But it’s all been idle, hypocritical chatter.

(Source)

Then there is the issue of abortion. Republicans love to call themselves “pro-life.” But it’s just a cliché; nothing more. Oh, they don’t mind passing timid “pro-life” bills, but when it comes to the real nuts and bolts issue, Personhood, they do everything they can to avoid it—and will often oppose it—behind closed doors, of course.

Now that SCOTUS has courageously overturned Roe v Wade, Red states across America should be making Personhood amendments to their constitutions Priority Number One. That has been the central issue in this debate all along.

A Personhood amendment is in complete harmony with American Liberty as expressed by Thomas Jefferson in our Declaration of Independence, where he stated:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men. [Emphasis added.]

A baby’s conception in the womb is the endowment of our Creator with the unalienable right of life. If Republicans were truly pro-life, they would be fighting tooth and nail for the legal protection for all unborn life via a Personhood amendment that recognizes and protects life in the womb.

But, no! Republicans nationwide are all but totally ignoring (or opposing) the Personhood issue. And that goes for the so-called pro-life nonprofits like National Right to Life and James Dobson’s “family” groups—including the Montana Family Foundation and its controlled opposition leader Jeff Laszloffy.

Therefore, along with the liberal progressive Democrats, these neocon Republicans well deserve the nomination for the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Evangelical Christian Zionists

If the first two groups qualify as hypocrites, this group defines the word.

As Doc Holliday said in the movie Tombstone, “It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds,” so, too, the hypocrisy of evangelical Christian Zionists knows no bounds.

In my message last Sunday, I said:

I submit that the Christians who are so quick to condemn Russia for its war in Ukraine but sit back in utter silence and indifference to the Israeli war on the Palestinians are among the greatest of hypocrites!

This report illustrates what I’m saying:

The son of Palestinian refugees from Gaza, now in Toronto, Sabawi’s invite to the exclusive organisation, where membership is reserved for “exceptional people”, had come off the back of his founding of TABO, an initiative dedicated to expanding property rights in Palestine, and his Toronto-based company with offices in Gaza, Open Screenplay, which aims to help diverse screenwriters start their careers.

That recognition was a big deal; YGL’s ties to the WEF meant access to some of the world’s biggest names and invitations to the WEF’s annual summit which is being held this week in Davos, Switzerland.

However, in September of last year, Al Sabawi was suspended indefinitely from the YGL community.

Al Sabawi believes the suspension was retribution for a letter he and other YGL members had sent to Schwab, accusing the WEF of being silent on Israel’s actions in the occupied Palestinian territory at the same time that it was expressing solidarity with Ukraine after Russia’s invasion of the country.

“While we profoundly support your public statement in solidarity with the people of Ukraine, we cannot help but also feel immensely hurt that the WEF is selective when it comes to morality and solidarity based on nationality,” the letter, sent in March, said.

According to emails shown to Al Jazeera by Al Sabawi, Schwab responded angrily, saying Ukraine was a “special case” and that the content of the letter was “deeply insulting” and “offensive”. He threatened to dissolve the YGL.

The dispute between Schwab and the YGL members had begun earlier, in the summer of 2021, during Israel’s war on Gaza. At least 260 Palestinians were killed in that assault, including more than 60 children.

At the time, Al Sabawi and a number of other YGL members wrote an initial letter to WEF and Schwab, in which they called on the organisation to denounce Israel for its actions in Gaza.

“As members of the Young Global Leaders (YGL) and Global Shapers community, we are proud to represent and further the values espoused by the World Economic Forum and answer your call for responsible leadership,” the letter said.

“Today, we feel these values are being tested by our collective silence as a community vis-à-vis the atrocities and violence being committed by Israel against the Palestinian people.”

For Al Sabawi, the war in Gaza was personal. Beyond being a Palestinian from Gaza, he says, his company Open Screenplay’s office in the blockaded territory was bombed, resulting in four deaths and leaving employees traumatised.

“Israel’s airstrikes impacted Schwab’s very own YGL members,” Al Sabawi told Al Jazeera. “We were traumatised beyond belief and outraged by the indiscriminate attacks. Myself and over a thousand YGL and WEF stakeholders believed Schwab must take a stand.”

However, in response to their plea, Schwab wrote an article on the WEF website highlighting that the organisation needed to remain neutral.

“Impartiality and neutrality are enshrined in our charter as an international organization. We also built it into all our governance rules, allowing people to associate with the Forum independent of their race, nationality, gender or political conviction, knowing that the purpose of the Forum is to improve the state of the world through dialogue and action-oriented collaboration,” the article said.

Schwab backtracked on that position when, along with the WEF, he issued a statement in February 2022, condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine.

“When the WEF took a clear stand against the invasion of Ukraine, that’s when we were outraged,” YGL member and fellow signatory Ramzi Jaber said.

“We were told that WEF cannot speak out against injustice because it is a neutral body and simply cannot take a public stance – only to see a few months later that the WEF took a strong stand on the war on Ukraine and expressed solidarity with Ukraine,” YGL member Mary Nazzal said.

“This is undoubtedly welcome and encouraged of course. But what is not welcome are double standards.”

Evangelicals who are preaching sermons and hosting radio and television programs vehemently condemning Russia’s war in Ukraine, while at the same time remaining silent, mute and dumb in condemning Israel’s war on the Palestinians should love Klaus Schwab. That is exactly what he is doing. Schwab even gave Ukraine’s First Lady a major speaking role at the WEF meeting last week in Switzerland.

Double standards? The WEF and evangelical Christian Zionists are filled with double standards!

So, I repeat what I said last Sunday:

Christians who are so quick to condemn Russia for its war in Ukraine but sit back in utter silence and indifference to the Israeli war on the Palestinians are among the greatest of hypocrites!

So, just who are the biggest hypocrites in the world? The three finalists are listed above. Take your pick.

Leland41-2
captain of 100
Posts: 226

Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Leland41-2 »

I don't know anything about this "Chuck Baldwin" character, but his comments about Israel and Palestine make not an ounce of sense to me. As a rough approximation of a summary of history in that part of the world, we had the Arab nations that surround Israel attack Israel in 1949 when Israel was proclaimed as an independent entity. Those Palestinians who were willing to recognize Israel as a new state and behave as peaceful citizens were allowed to stay, and the rest of the Palestinians who were trying to join with the hostile surrounding Arab states and "drive the Israelis into the sea" were instead driven out of Israel and have been in refugee status for over 70 years. All of the Arab states surrounding the state of Israel have basically paid the Palestinians for 72 years to try to destroy the state of Israel. How does one stay a refugee for 72 years? That can only happen if all the surrounding Arab states refused to let any of these people move to a different country or to have any leaders of their own who could create a lasting peace. The Arab leaders who are there are paid billions of dollars to help their people, and then those billions of dollars go into personal bank accounts and are never used to help the people there. Talk about hypocrisy and deception!

Having spent a few weeks in Israel and spoken at length with some Palestinians inside Israel and inside Jordan, there was no conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis until the outside hostile Arab nations got involved and decided that the only purpose for Palestinians was to be a permanent refugee camp and source of attacks on Israel forever. If you put "Palestinians attack Israel" into Microsoft Bing, you'll get a whole list of attacks by Palestinians on Israelis (and some responses). The Palestinians are always shooting rockets at Israeli's, so the Israelis have invented their "Iron Dome" antimissile system. The Palestinians and their suicide bombers are paid by outside countries to be professional terrorists against the Israelis.

I really can't comprehend what this "Chuck Baldwin" person is trying to accomplish with his mindless and history-free comments, but, as far as I can tell, what he says has nothing to do with the truth of the situation.

Israel is in fact a democracy, and all the Arab states around are murderous tyrannies, as they have been for almost forever now, based on their concept of eternal war against Jews and Christians as taught in the Koran, and, if nothing else, that might help you decide which side of the fence you would like to be on.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Niemand »

Leland41-2 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 9:56 pm As a rough approximation of a summary of history in that part of the world, we had the Arab nations that surround Israel attack Israel in 1949 when Israel was proclaimed as an independent entity. Those Palestinians who were willing to recognize Israel as a new state and behave as peaceful citizens were allowed to stay, and the rest of the Palestinians who were trying to join with the hostile surrounding Arab states and "drive the Israelis into the sea" were instead driven out of Israel and have been in refugee status for over 70 years. All of the Arab states surrounding the state of Israel have basically paid the Palestinians for 72 years to try to destroy the state of Israel. How does one stay a refugee for 72 years?
Instead of asking why they are still refugees, ask why those people became refugees in the first place. It is also ludicrous to blame the actions of these countries on the refugees themselves.

There is a double standard here. Many of the olim who came to Israel over the past hundred and twenty years or so were not willing to behave "as peaceful citizens" in Mandate Palestine and not only attacked the British authorities there and Arabs whose main crime was just being from there. Paramilitary groups like Lekhi (the Stern Gang) and Haganah later formed the backbone of the IDF.
Having spent a few weeks in Israel and spoken at length with some Palestinians inside Israel and inside Jordan, there was no conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis until the outside hostile Arab nations got involved and decided that the only purpose for Palestinians was to be a permanent refugee camp and source of attacks on Israel forever.
That's not true. There were riots and attacks going on long before 1948.

Palestinian nationalism originated with Christian Arabs who were more Europeanised. The Muslims didn't take it up until later on.

Leland41-2
captain of 100
Posts: 226

Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Leland41-2 »

Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:19 am
Instead of asking why they are still refugees, ask why those people became refugees in the first place. It is also ludicrous to blame the actions of these countries on the refugees themselves.

The refugees are indeed the ones to blame for their own situation. If that is not clear to you, then you simply don't know anything about what happened in the 1948 war.

Obviously, my understanding of the history has nothing to do with your understanding of the history. One of us is completely out to lunch.
More precisely, when the surrounding Arab nations planned to attack and destroy Israel, those outside Arab nations, through multiple propaganda channels, were telling all the Palestinians to leave Israel for a short time so that the outside Arab nations could kill all the Jews, and then the Palestinians who left could come back and get all the Israeli land for free, and own the entire country. The Israelis actually made great efforts to try to keep the Palestinians to stay. I think they even used loudspeaker trucks which was a good way to do things in the 1940s.

The only problem with that strategy was that the Israelis won the war, and that left the Palestinians who had left, hoping all the Jews would be killed on their behalf, stuck on the outside with no way to come back in. They had clearly shown their colors that they hated the Jews and wanted to see them dead. On the other hand, there were quite a number of Palestinians who were perfectly happy to stay in Israel and even fight with the Israelis, or at least remain neutral and cause no trouble.

Perhaps one could see why those self-leaving "refugees" who had shown that they all hoped that the Israelis would die in Arab attacks, were not very welcome to come back in. That problem has never been resolved, naturally, because the Arab nations surrounding Israel make sure that it is never resolved. The Palestinian leaders are paid billions to make sure that the problem is never solved.

On another point, naturally one could feel some sympathy for the individual Palestinian refugees who have been the pawns in this 70 year political game. All the surrounding Arab nations have wanted to make sure that this festering sore never heals. They will not allow anything to happen that might solve the problem. Foolish people from the West send money to the "Palestinians," but all of that money goes to their corrupt and murderous leaders, especially like Yasser Arafat, and nothing ever goes to the actual Palestinian people. If there is anyone that you ought to direct your hate and disgust towards, it is such people as Yasser Arafat. He had about $2 billion in his own personal bank account at one point. Obviously, giving money to him was a counterproductive thing to do.

At one point, the Israelis offered to give Yasser Arafat everything he requested in their negotiations, but he refused. He was making billions of dollars keeping the war going, and so it was absurd that he would agree to any peace agreements. I think you really have no idea what has been going on over there for the last 100 years. If you are a person who is for peace, then you cannot be supporting the leaders of the Palestinians. They are all the rottenest kind of people you can find. If you think the Christians caused this problem, then you are really in deep propaganda trouble. (Except for the "Christian" British who disarmed and abandoned the Jews and hoped the Arabs would kill them all, since the British wanted to be friends with the Arabs. Remember the "Exodus" ship where the British would not allow the Jews to land in Israel?) Has Palestinian propaganda turned you into a Jew hater? That is amazing. Does that also mean that you hate democracy and love tyranny, especially Arab tyranny? This is crazy stuff.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for nine years and spent a few weeks in Jordan and Israel. I stayed at a Palestinian hotel in Jerusalem for a couple of weeks. I can make a general statement that the usual propaganda about Israel and Palestine has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground.

At the moment, I can't recall the name of the really excellent book I read about all the circumstances surrounding the original 1948 Arab-Israeli war. The Wikipedia article gives a few of the details.

List of wars involving Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ing_Israel

Famous Palestinian Leaders (all the worst kind of criminals.)
Yasser Arafat, Amin al-Husseini, Mahmoud Abbas
https://www.thefamouspeople.com/palestinian-leaders.php

If you enjoy reading about the Palestinians being abused by their leaders, the next book should do the job. The PLO is a bunch of terrorists, but it is mostly their own people they are terrorizing. One example I recall was the PLO shooting at busloads of people who were leaving the Gaza Strip to go to work inside Israel. That seems like maybe they didn't want there to be any peace arrangements?

Inside the PLO
Neil C Livingston and David Halevy, 1990
"The eventual destruction of the State of Israel still appears to be . . . the PLO's ultimate goal."

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Niemand
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Niemand »

Leland41-2 wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:00 pm
Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:19 am
Instead of asking why they are still refugees, ask why those people became refugees in the first place. It is also ludicrous to blame the actions of these countries on the refugees themselves.
The refugees are indeed the ones to blame for their own situation. If that is not clear to you, then you simply don't know anything about what happened in the 1948 war.
Oh, it's all very clear to me. You believe that every single one of thousands of people agreed to the exact same thing, leaving their homes in the middle of the night in some cases or all their possessions. This sounds like the way woke people talk about groups of people, as if they have no personal or individual opinions.

You're telling they're to blame for a large influx of foreigners who went round buying up all the land and even attacking them? Because that's what Lekhi and others did.

The State of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy but it certainly isn't a godly state and it is often hostile to Christianity. Teddy Kollek, the mayor of Jerusalem, once compared Christian missions to Jews as a form of genocide. Like many major early Zionists, he wasn't born there.
Obviously, my understanding of the history has nothing to do with your understanding of the history. One of us is completely out to lunch.
If have to accuse me of being insane, to back up your claims. you've already lost the argument. That is an ad hominem and irrelevant.

The facts are not hard to understand. In 1800, there were very few Jews living in the Holy Land. In 1900, there was a massive influx of Jews from the Russian Empire due to pogroms. Hitler etc brought another massive influx, meaning by 1948, there were lots of new Jews there who weren't there a a few decades before.

The Balfour Declaration by Britain, which ruled mandate Palestine, encouraged Jews to live there. Between then and 1948, the British sent out contradictory messages to Arabs and Jews. Jewish and Arab groups attacked one another.

After WW2, the British decided to leave the area, along with India etc. The Soviet Union and USA recognised the new state. The State of Israel subsequently grabbed three other areas, the Gaza Strip, West Bank and Golan Heights.
More precisely, when the surrounding Arab nations planned to attack and destroy Israel, those outside Arab nations, through multiple propaganda channels, were telling all the Palestinians to leave Israel for a short time so that the outside Arab nations could kill all the Jews, and then the Palestinians who left could come back and get all the Israeli land for free, and own the entire country.


How does this justify grabbing someone else's land in the first place? Most of those Jews weren't even there two or three generations before.

The Mormons have been in Utah nearly twice as long as the State of Israel have been in the Levant. They obtained it much more peacefully too.
On another point, naturally one could feel some sympathy for the individual Palestinian refugees who have been the pawns in this 70 year political game.
You mean the people whose families lived there continuously for thousands of years? They're not even proper Arabs but an Arabised local population.
If you think the Christians caused this problem, then you are really in deep propaganda trouble.
Christians supported this idea back when it was unpopular among Jews themselves. Zionism was a fringe interest among Jews into the 1920s and 1930s. The truth is that it would have been better for all concerned if European Jews had migrated somewhere else... as many do.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for nine years and spent a few weeks in Jordan and Israel. I stayed at a Palestinian hotel in Jerusalem for a couple of weeks. I can make a general statement that the usual propaganda about Israel and Palestine has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground.
Good for you. If you want to keep score, I've been in Israel for three months. The Jewish bit. I was previously mildly pro-Zionist. What I saw changed my mind. They are not the underdogs. The whole thing is a mess of recent origin. It occurred within the lifetime of my parents, and grandparents.

Most of the people and families you are supporting weren't even in the area a century or more ago.

So no, as you put it, Arab propaganda didn't do it. What I saw with my own eyes did it.

Eretz Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy but that doesn't make its actions right or appropriate.
Neil C Livingston and David Halevy, 1990
"The eventual destruction of the State of Israel still appears to be . . . the PLO's ultimate goal."
It probably is. Much as the aim of Zionism was for outsiders to take that territory for themselves and kick out people.who had been living there for thousands of years. The Palestinians are descendants of Jews themselves.

If a large group of people came and kicked you out of your home area a short time ago, wouldn't you want it back? Some of your friends may even want to take even more extreme measures.

Leland41-2
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Leland41-2 »

Interesting. I still find your views incomprehensible, but that is probably because I don't know very much about you. I could present some more political history, but that seems pointless because it sounds like you form your opinions from other sources. For example, if the Palestinians willingly sold their land to the Jews and moved elsewhere, are you still going to call that genocide?

I am actually curious how you reached your conclusions, since I can't understand how you see things.
Do you have a Jewish background yourself? I can't seem to tell.
I am sorry to even say this, since you may find this offensive, but does the new United States fad of "white guilt" have something to do with all of this?

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Niemand
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

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For example, if the Palestinians willingly sold their land to the Jews and moved elsewhere, are you still going to call that genocide?
This is like arguing that the Highland Clearances in Scotland or the Irish potato famine were okay, because the landlords helped cause the problem. Much like the flooding of Europe by mass migration must be okay since the ruling class approve of it.

Many of the landlords in Mandate Palestine were not even Palestinians, but Turks, a hangover from the Ottoman Empire.

Imagine yourself in the same postion.

If Chinese state officials went up buying up all the rental property in the area and kicked out anyone who wasn't Chinese, you'd be okay with that?

How about Native Americans instead (presuming you are from the USA)? After all they would have lived in your areas only a few hundred years ago at most and so much more recently than most Ashkenazi were ever in the Levant.

The Palestinians are a native people in the region. Most ofnthem are descendants of the Jews who remained after 70AD and converted. Some of them are Christians, which makes it bizarre that Christians would wish to drive Christians out of the Holy Land. Since the state of Israel was founded the Christian population has plummeted and many have left to live overseas. The Palestinians are mainly an Arabised population, who went through successive Arab, Turkish and British rule rather than one descended mainly from people from much further south.

Yes, the State of Israel is a fulfilment of prophecy, but it is not a particularly pro-Christian state and its arrival has not answered the Jewish question so much as ask the Palestinian one. The claims of the place being "democratic" also falter in the face of Bibi's recent actions towards the population (Jews included) and having the most abusive and strictest Covid rules in the developed world...

larsenb
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

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Leland41-2 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 9:56 pm I don't know anything about this "Chuck Baldwin" character, but his comments about Israel and Palestine make not an ounce of sense to me. As a rough approximation of a summary of history in that part of the world, we had the Arab nations that surround Israel attack Israel in 1949 when Israel was proclaimed as an independent entity. Those Palestinians who were willing to recognize Israel as a new state and behave as peaceful citizens were allowed to stay, and the rest of the Palestinians who were trying to join with the hostile surrounding Arab states and "drive the Israelis into the sea" were instead driven out of Israel and have been in refugee status for over 70 years. All of the Arab states surrounding the state of Israel have basically paid the Palestinians for 72 years to try to destroy the state of Israel. How does one stay a refugee for 72 years? That can only happen if all the surrounding Arab states refused to let any of these people move to a different country or to have any leaders of their own who could create a lasting peace. The Arab leaders who are there are paid billions of dollars to help their people, and then those billions of dollars go into personal bank accounts and are never used to help the people there. Talk about hypocrisy and deception!

Having spent a few weeks in Israel and spoken at length with some Palestinians inside Israel and inside Jordan, there was no conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis until the outside hostile Arab nations got involved and decided that the only purpose for Palestinians was to be a permanent refugee camp and source of attacks on Israel forever. If you put "Palestinians attack Israel" into Microsoft Bing, you'll get a whole list of attacks by Palestinians on Israelis (and some responses). The Palestinians are always shooting rockets at Israeli's, so the Israelis have invented their "Iron Dome" antimissile system. The Palestinians and their suicide bombers are paid by outside countries to be professional terrorists against the Israelis.

I really can't comprehend what this "Chuck Baldwin" person is trying to accomplish with his mindless and history-free comments, but, as far as I can tell, what he says has nothing to do with the truth of the situation.

Israel is in fact a democracy, and all the Arab states around are murderous tyrannies, as they have been for almost forever now, based on their concept of eternal war against Jews and Christians as taught in the Koran, and, if nothing else, that might help you decide which side of the fence you would like to be on.
You may want to go live in Gaza Palestine for several months and get first-hand knowledge about what you are talking about. You also need to read up on some of the massacres committed by the Irgun and Haganah against Palestinian villagers well before 1949, to include the attach on the King David Hotel. Also look into the Lavon affair from 1954 in Egypt.

While your at it, consider how the Israeli's continue to violate agreements not to encroach on the West Bank, and really give a thorough look at how Israel engineered the basic military take-over from the Palestinians from the get go. You can see maps showing the historical expansion of Israel at the expense of the Palestinians, until now they control almost the entire country, while keeping the remnant Palestinians who have attempted to resist them confined to a virtual prison in Gaza.

And we're not even talking about the Zionist/Mossad involvement in planning and executing the events of 9/11, and then playing a major role in both covering up their involvement, and suppressing legal redress and findings, in so-called courts of law.

larsenb
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: February 1st, 2023, 8:19 am
That's not true. There were riots and attacks going on long before 1948.

Palestinian nationalism originated with Christian Arabs who were more Europeanised. The Muslims didn't take it up until later on.
I'll never forget, after enrolling at BYU as a Junior, being kind of a refugee from a family tragedy, how I attended a pro-Israeli talk given by one of the faculty of religion professors (as I recall, though he may have been an invited speaker by the same group).

The talk emphasized how the creation of Israel was a fulfillment of prophecy and a direct outcome of Orson Hyde's dedication of the land to the return of the Jews, but also a very raw-raw Israel presentation. I was soaking it up.

But then, and this was the shocking thing I remember, a young and very dark Arab-looking young fellow got up and vehemently rebutted what the speaker had been claiming. He showed a LOT of courage in doing so, considering the pro-Israel crowd he was in the midst of.

Now the very interesting thing about this fellow, aside from his message, was that he was a CHRISTIAN Arab, not a Muslim. After his diatribe, it occurred to me that I may not know the whole story about these issues.

HVDC
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by HVDC »

The so called Jews.

Just another group of people who decided not to wait for God to fulfill His promises.

Conquences follow.

Sir H

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Niemand
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Re: Just Who Are The Biggest Hypocrites In The World? By Chuck Baldwin

Post by Niemand »

I used to have a friend of mine who was a born again Christian and mildly Zionist. He was of Lithuanian Jewish ancestry through his mother. (He used to joke his family were too seasick to travel all the way to America.)

Anyway, he thought the state of Israel was the fulfilment of prophecy... but he also said that is would become hated among the nations by the End Times and that would be partly because of Israel's own actions, not just anti-Jewish feeling. His view was that this widespread hatred would be the reason it would end up being attacked/invaded.

Image

The Israeli State may well have brought condemnation on itself through trying to force the Covid jags on everyone and creating a two tier society on that basis. They even had signs on seats saying you couldn't use them unless you'd had the jag. There have been huge protests against Netanyahu recently although they have had hardly any coverage overseas. Modern Israel is also a big pusher of gay and trans lifestyles. Many younger Israelis are barely Jewish in many senses and are part of the same globalist culture one sees everywhere else.

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