Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

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Niemand
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Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
The English proto-Reformer included Laodiceans in his Bible version. The KJV is heavily influenced by Wycliffe, but does not include this book.
For centuries some Western Latin Bibles used to contain a small Epistle from Paul to the Laodiceans. The oldest known Bible copy of this epistle is in a Fulda manuscript written for Victor of Capua in 546. It is mentioned by various writers from the fourth century onwards, notably by Pope Gregory the Great, to whose influence may ultimately be due the frequent occurrence of it in Bibles written in England; for it is more common in English Bibles than in others. John Wycliffe included Paul's letter to the Laodiceans in his Bible translation from the Latin to English. However this epistle is not without controversy because there is no evidence of a Greek text.
https://www.bible-glory.com/bible/apocr ... ceans.html

There are several Epistles to the Laodiceans, but this is the main one. It was in the Vulgate as well, but there is no known Greek original.
The epistle consists of twenty verses, and is described by Professors Rudolf Knopf (1874-1920) and Gustav Kruger (1862-1940) as "nothing other than a worthless patching together of (canonical) Pauline passages and phrases, mainly from the Epistle to the Philippians." The text was almost unanimously considered pseudepigraphal when the Christian Biblical canon was decided upon, and does not appear in any Greek copies of the Bible at all, nor is it known in Syriac or other versions. Jerome, who wrote the Latin Vulgate translation, wrote in the 4th century, "it is rejected by everyone". It was the opinion of M.R. James that "It is not easy to imagine a more feebly constructed cento of Pauline phrases."
So can we take this as fan fiction? I'll discuss it a bit more in the reply section.

( Other Apocrypha discussions
I discuss Tobit here
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=61165&p=1208262

and Psalm 151 here
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63875&p=1204911 )

I quote the entire letter below. It is one of the shortest books to appear in the New Testament

Epistle to the Laodiceans
Paul, an apostle not of men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ, unto the brethren that are at Laodicea. 1
Grace be unto you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2
I give thanks unto Christ in all my prayers, that ye continue in him and persevere in his works, looking for the promise at the day of judgement. 3
Neither do the vain talkings of some overset you, which creep in, that they may turn you away from the truth of the Gospel which is preached by me. 4
And now shall God cause that they that are of me shall continue ministering unto the increase of the truth of the Gospel and accomplishing goodness, and the work of salvation, even eternal life. 5
And now are my bonds seen of all men, which I suffer in Christ, wherein I rejoice and am glad. 6
And unto me this is for everlasting salvation, which also is brought about by your prayers, and the ministry of the Holy Ghost, whether by life or by death. 7
For verily to me life is in Christ, and to die is joy. 8
And unto him (or And also) shall he work his mercy in you that ye may have the same love, and be of one mind. 9
Therefore, dearly beloved, as ye have heard in my presence so hold fast and work in the fear of God, and it shall be unto you for life eternal. 10
For it is God that worketh in you. 11
And do ye without afterthought whatsoever ye do. 12
And for the rest, dearly beloved, rejoice in Christ, and beware of them that are filthy in lucre. 13
Let all your petitions be made openly before God, and be ye steadfast in the mind of Christ. 14
And what things are sound and true and sober and just and to be loved, do ye. 15
And what ye have heard and received, keep fast in your heart. 16
And peace shall be unto you. 17
The saints salute you. 18
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with your spirit. 19
And cause this epistle to be read unto them of Colossae, and the epistle of the Colossians to be read unto you. 20
Last edited by Niemand on November 20th, 2021, 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT

Post by Niemand »

Let's break this down. I struggle to find much in the way of deep doctrine in here, but correct me if I'm wrong.

"Paul, an apostle not of men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ, unto the brethren that are at Laodicea."

Paul was indeed called in a vision, much as Joseph Smith was. This is an interesting point, given how formal church organisation is so bureaucratic now.

"Grace be unto you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"

No mention of the Holy Ghost here, but interesting the other two are separated. It isn't overtly trinitarian.

"I give thanks unto Christ in all my prayers, that ye continue in him and persevere in his works, looking for the promise at the day of judgement."

Colossians 3.17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Proverbs 3.6
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
"Neither do the vain talkings of some overset you, which creep in, that they may turn you away from the truth of the Gospel which is preached by me."

Matthew 6.7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
"And for the rest, dearly beloved, rejoice in Christ, and beware of them that are filthy in lucre."
1 Timothy 3:80 - Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Titus 1:11 - Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
"And cause this epistle to be read unto them of Colossae, and the epistle of the Colossians to be read unto you."

A callback to Colossians which mentions it.
Colossians 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

"Paul, an apostle not of men nor by man,"

Very similar phrasing in
D&C 18.34 These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man
"I give thanks unto Christ in all my prayers"
Mosiah 26.39 And they did admonish their brethren; and they were also admonished, every one by the word of God, according to his sins, or to the sins which he had committed, being commanded of God to pray without ceasing, and to give thanks in all things.
"persevere in his works, looking for the promise at the day of judgement."
He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22)
If they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, 1 Ne. 13:37.

If ye shall be obedient to the commandments, and endure to the end, ye shall be saved, 1 Ne. 22:31 (Alma 5:13).
"Neither do the vain talkings of some overset you, which creep in, that they may turn you away from the truth of the Gospel which is preached by me."

Regardless of the origins of the book of Laodiceans, this is a reminder that the Great Apostasy had already begun after Christ's death.
JST, Genesis 50. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy.
"And what things are sound and true and sober and just and to be loved, do ye."
Mormon 1 And about the time that Ammaron hid up the records unto the Lord, he came unto me, (I being about ten years of age, and I began to be learned somewhat after the manner of the learning of my people) and Ammaron said unto me: I perceive that thou art a sober child, and art quick to observe;
D&C 73.6Gird up your loins and be sober. Even so. Amen.

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

Included here Wycliffe's translation "Laodicensis" which doesn't get included in all modern editions. The spelling is unusual, but this is a precursor to the KJV...
---

1 Poul, apostle, not of men, ne by man, but bi Jhesu Crist, `to the britheren that ben at Laodice,

2 grace to you, and pees of God the fadir, and of the Lord Jhesu Crist.

3 I do thankyngis to my God bi al my preier, that ye be dwelling and lastyng in him, abiding the biheest in the day of doom.

4 For neithir the veyn spekyng of summe unwise men hath lettide you, the whiche wolden turne you fro the treuthe of the gospel, that is prechid of me.

5 And now hem that ben of me, to the profiyt of truthe of the gospel, God schal make disseruyng, and doyng benygnyte of werkis, and helthe of everlasting lijf.

6 And now my boondis ben open, which Y suffre in Crist Jhesu, in whiche Y glade and joie.

7 And that is to me to everlastyng helthe, that this same thing be doon by youre preiers, and mynystryng of the Holi Goost, either bi lijf, either bi deeth.

8 Forsothe to me it is lijf to lyve in Crist, and to die joie.

9 And his mercy schal do in you the same thing, that ye moun have the same love, and that ye be of oo will.

10 Therfore, ye weel biloved britheren, holde ye, and do ye in the dreede of God, as ye han herde the presence of me; and lijf schal be to you withouten eende.

11 Sotheli it is God that worchith in you.

12 And, my weel biloved britheren, do ye without eny withdrawyng what ever thingis ye don.

13 Joie ye in Crist, and eschewe ye men defoulid in lucre, `either foul wynnyng.

14 Be alle youre askyngis open anentis God, and be ye stidefast in the witt of Crist.

15 And do ye tho thingis that ben hool,

16 and trewe, `and chaast, and just, and able to be loved; and kepe ye in herte tho thingis that ye have herd and take;

17 and pees schal be to you.

18 Alle holi men greten you weel.

19 The grace of oure Lord Jhesu Crist be with youre spirit.

20 And do ye that pistil of Colocensis to be red to you

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JLHPROF
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

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It just doesn't read like Paul to me. But I've been wrong many times.

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

JLHPROF wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 2:22 pm It just doesn't read like Paul to me. But I've been wrong many times.
I'm leaning towards the notion of it being two or three Pauline quotes cobbled together with some extra material. Certainly some callbacks to Colossians.

As a book, I don't find myself objecting to any of it, but I also don't miss it from my Bible. It isn't like the Gospel of Thomas or the Book of Enoch which contain a lot of controversial material which is a bit different from the Bible.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Niemand wrote: November 20th, 2021, 8:52 am "Paul, an apostle not of men nor by man,"

Very similar phrasing in
D&C 18.34 These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man
That is a pretty interesting cross reference. Makes you wonder if that epistle is authentic

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

Latest Apocrypha:
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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

Book of Susanna
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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?p=1348046

Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...

The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
viewtopic.php?t=69540

The Book of Enoch
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The Book of Jubilees aka Leptogenesis or Little Genesis
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3 Corinthians (Armenian canon) - Like Laodiceans this claims to be an additional Pauline epistle. Whereas Laodiceans recycles a lot of material, 3 Cor. seems to be an anti-gnostic treatise.
viewtopic.php?t=69567

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

The book seems to have had some support from Quakers.

https://echozoe.com/archives/2762
What happened to the letter from Laodicea that Paul mentions in this verse? There is a letter that has been handed down through the Latin Vulgate that claims to be this letter, but is it? Is it a forgery? Pastor Mike Abendroth returns for this episode to discuss this letter, as well as the Canon of Scripture...

The Quakers pleaded for Laodiceans to be included in the Canon. We speculated that the did so in order to open the door to other books/letters to be added as well.
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/213791.aspx
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 4 2023 1:25 AM
Yes, I know that at least in theory, the Quaker canon is open not closed. And I have decent sources for these

A Quaker named Margaret Fell wanted to add the book "The Light Within" to the New Testament canon.

Another Quaker, Robert Barclay, advocated for the inclusion of the Epistle of Matthias in the New Testament canon.

The Letter to the Laodiceans was included in early Quaker Bibles.

What I am looking for are any additions to this list before I build a timeline.
https://sharedveracity.net/2020/08/08/w ... aodiceans/
Nevertheless, this “Epistle to the Laodiceans” survived in popularity, well into the late medieval period. John Wycliffe, the early English proto-Reformer, included the “Epistle to the Laodiceans” in his English translation of the Bible. Despite there being no surviving Greek text for this document, we still have some Christians, like the Quakers in the 16th century, still claiming it was a valid letter from Paul.

If you actually read the “Epistle to the Laodiceans,” it does not really say much of anything of theological substance. But it does make you wonder why the popularity of this book survived for so long, as being something authentically from Paul, when there is really very little, if any evidence, to support this assertion.
https://reluctant-messenger.com/epistle-laodiceans.htm
The Epistle to the Laodiceans is included in all 18 German Bibles printed prior to Luther's translation, beginning with the first German Bible, issued by Johann Mental at Strassburg in 1488. In these the Pauline Epistles, with the Epistle to the Hebrews, immediately follow the Gospels, with Laodiceans standing between Galatians and Ephesians. In the first Czech (Bohemian) Bible, published at Prague in 1488 and reprinted several times in the 16th and 17th centuries, Laodiceans follows Colossians and precedes I Thessalonians.

It was not until the Council of Florence (1439-43) that the See of Rome delivered for the first time a categorical opinion on the Scriptural canon. In the list of 27 books of the New Testament there are 14 Pauline Epistles, that to the Hebrews being last, with the book of Acts coming immediately before the Revelation of John. The Epistle to the Laodiceans is noteably absent.

This Epistle to the Laodiceans has been highly esteemed by several learned men of the church of Rome and others, including the Quakers, who have printed a translation and plead for it as canon. However there are several scholars who write it off as a forgery. Their strongest objection being no surviving Greek text.
More info
Laodiceans seems to have even been omitted off Antilegomena lists (questionable canon.

http://www.ntcanon.org/Epistle_to_the_Laodiceans.shtml
Composed perhaps at the close of the 3rd century, by the 4th century Jerome reports that 'some read the Epistle to the Laodiceans, but it is rejected by everyone' (De viris ill. 5). Of all the spurious pieces produced in the early Church, this is one of the most feeble. It is mystifying how it could have commanded so much respect in the Western Church for period of 1000 years. Comprising only 20 verses, the epistle is a pedestrian patchwork of phrases and sentences plagiarized from the genuine Pauline Epistles, particularly Philippians
Lightfoot, J. B. – Saint Paul's Epistles to the Colossians and to Philemon. 9th ed. London. 1890.
... for more than nine centuries this forged epistle hovered about the doors of the sacred Canon, without either finding admission or being peremptorily excluded.
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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

Quote from the Apocryphal New Testament by M.R. James (yes, the same one who wrote the ghost stories):
It exists only in Latin: the oldest copy is in the Fulda MS. written for Victor of Capua in 546. It is mentioned by various writers from the fourth century onwards, notably by Gregory the Great, to whose influence may ultimately be due the frequent occurrence of it in Bibles written in England; for it is commoner in English MSS. than in others. As will be seen, it is wholly uninteresting, and was merely written to justify or explain St. Paul’s mention of the letter from Laodicea in Col. iv. 16.
While James dismisses it, it is a curiosity that this piece seens to have gained widest circulation in the English speaking world. One tends to think of theae books persisting in Greek, Coptic, Ethiopian, Slavonic or Syriac manuscripts. It is not the only book to be known mainly from a Latin source, much of 2 Esdras is as well.

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Niemand
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Re: Epistle to Laodiceans, BoM & NT etc

Post by Niemand »

I notice I haven't provided any audiobook links for this book. Let's rectify that. All of these are under three or four minutes long.

The sound isn't great on most of these for some unknown reason.

A channel I use occasionally
And another which has been good in supplying rare books.
Audio a bit fuzzy/muffled on this one
A rare female voice.
If you're hardcore like me, you might want to hear Wycliffe's version being read. No hotlinking to this video hence no preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXee9TYSbmI

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