Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.

Do you trust the Q of 12, 1st press, and Pres. Nelson?

Yes, and have consistently
4
5%
Yes, but I didn't before
0
No votes
No, I never have
1
1%
No, but I did before covid
43
49%
No, but I did until LGBTQ issues
4
5%
No, but I did until the Olympics and the mall
5
6%
No, but I did more than 20 years ago
30
34%
 
Total votes: 87
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iWriteStuff
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
The ignorant and the evil already took over. The only ones who haven't caught on are the vulnerable.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

iWriteStuff wrote: January 29th, 2023, 11:00 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:49 am If all the intelligent good men and women leave the Church who will be left? The ignorant, the vulnerable, and the evil.

Something to think about.

...
The ignorant and the evil already took over. The only ones who haven't caught on are the vulnerable.
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/01 ... -patriots/

...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:51 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:46 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:16 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:09 am

I haven’t “abandoned them”… they kicked me out. There’s a big difference. What do you expect someone like me to do? Walk into their during fast/testimony meeting and drop some bombs… the Spirit has told me to just leave them be. I was called to repentance by my SP for little things, nothing relating to doctrine. My own EQ president asked me why I don’t have my record removed.
I wasn't really talking about you so I had no expectations concerning you. I'm talking about the idea of True Love and the idea of being responsible to others and how these ideas temper my desires to flee because I am so hurt. I've been hurt deeply by the Church.

But what are you willing to do for love?

If I dedicate all my acts to God and to building up His kingdom I find that He supports me and I am able to do things and say things I'd otherwise would not be able to do or say without it blowing up in my face.

I empathize with you. I know its hard to deal with the things you mention and I don't think you are wicked or evil for having made your choices but I am sharing another perspective that I am living by and I am at peace.


...
I’m glad that you are in peace. I can vehemently disagree with someone w/in the church and still love them. IMO, sitting in a seat next to you and not speaking truth (as spoken to your heart) is being deceptive. It is the opposite of love. Unless the Spirit specifically told you to be silent. But speaking up will get you kicked out… and I am so grateful for that.
I speak out. I am not silent. I am not afraid of them. But I know there are evil people in the Church who take advantage of those who are vulnerable. If all the good men and women leave who will look be there so speak in defense of the vulnerable?

I said for a reason that if you dedicate all that you do to God and make sure what you say and what you do is genuinely and sincerely motivated by your love for God and your desire to do His will, then something extraordinary happens but you have to experience it to know it.

God sustains those who put their trust in Him. When you speak because God put words in your mouth and you were not afraid of the consequences, things work out for your good.

It's an amazing thing.

...
I’m not afraid of the consequences. That’s why I am no longer welcome in church.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:13 pm
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:51 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:46 am
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:16 am

I wasn't really talking about you so I had no expectations concerning you. I'm talking about the idea of True Love and the idea of being responsible to others and how these ideas temper my desires to flee because I am so hurt. I've been hurt deeply by the Church.

But what are you willing to do for love?

If I dedicate all my acts to God and to building up His kingdom I find that He supports me and I am able to do things and say things I'd otherwise would not be able to do or say without it blowing up in my face.

I empathize with you. I know its hard to deal with the things you mention and I don't think you are wicked or evil for having made your choices but I am sharing another perspective that I am living by and I am at peace.


...
I’m glad that you are in peace. I can vehemently disagree with someone w/in the church and still love them. IMO, sitting in a seat next to you and not speaking truth (as spoken to your heart) is being deceptive. It is the opposite of love. Unless the Spirit specifically told you to be silent. But speaking up will get you kicked out… and I am so grateful for that.
I speak out. I am not silent. I am not afraid of them. But I know there are evil people in the Church who take advantage of those who are vulnerable. If all the good men and women leave who will look be there so speak in defense of the vulnerable?

I said for a reason that if you dedicate all that you do to God and make sure what you say and what you do is genuinely and sincerely motivated by your love for God and your desire to do His will, then something extraordinary happens but you have to experience it to know it.

God sustains those who put their trust in Him. When you speak because God put words in your mouth and you were not afraid of the consequences, things work out for your good.

It's an amazing thing.

...
I’m not afraid of the consequences. That’s why I am no longer welcome in church.
Right I heard you and I understand you.

Go anyways. Don't go because you are welcome. Go to be an instrument in God's hand. That's another perspective.

...

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:27 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:13 pm
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:51 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:46 am

I’m glad that you are in peace. I can vehemently disagree with someone w/in the church and still love them. IMO, sitting in a seat next to you and not speaking truth (as spoken to your heart) is being deceptive. It is the opposite of love. Unless the Spirit specifically told you to be silent. But speaking up will get you kicked out… and I am so grateful for that.
I speak out. I am not silent. I am not afraid of them. But I know there are evil people in the Church who take advantage of those who are vulnerable. If all the good men and women leave who will look be there so speak in defense of the vulnerable?

I said for a reason that if you dedicate all that you do to God and make sure what you say and what you do is genuinely and sincerely motivated by your love for God and your desire to do His will, then something extraordinary happens but you have to experience it to know it.

God sustains those who put their trust in Him. When you speak because God put words in your mouth and you were not afraid of the consequences, things work out for your good.

It's an amazing thing.

...
I’m not afraid of the consequences. That’s why I am no longer welcome in church.
Right I heard you and I understand you.

Go anyways. Don't go because you are welcome. Go to be an instrument in God's hand. That's another perspective.

...
I’ll listen to what the Spirit has prompted me. I would be asked to leave immediately. I have a friend who got up and called out the apostate nature of the church. The bishop threatened to call the police if he ever did that again.

It appears you have a very different mission than I do. My stomach can’t handle false church beliefs and traditions.

Lizzy60
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Lizzy60 »

For those of us who believe we have received the word of the Lord regarding whether we should keep attending meetings, or worship on our own.......

We each will have received individual, personal, and differing counsel. Our circumstances vary, so also will our personal revelation vary.

As an example — two people each pray about going on a mission. One receives a “yes” and the other receives a “no”. Both answers can be coming from the Lord.

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BigT
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by BigT »

Definitely their response to the scamdemic for me. I don’t think I’d ever heard of the City Creek Mall. I believe I did read about the Ensign Peak thing when it came out, but I recall thinking, “Well, I’m glad they’re taking good care of the money,” not at all tying it into tithing or the poor, etc. I was “asleep.” Both sides of my family go back to the 1840s, so there was the traditions of the fathers, too.

simpleton
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by simpleton »

All this crying and whining about the vaccine and various doctrinal changes in the church.
But all of it pales in comparison to the murdering of our offspring, in the church. (But also out of the church).

The Pill Often Causes Early Abortions
“Contraceptive” means a method of birth control prevents fertilization of the egg by the sperm by placing a physical barrier between them. However, all birth control pills and the other hormone-based methods of birth control on the market today function as abortifacients part of the time. The Pill often ends early pregnancies by preventing implantation of an already fertilized egg, or very early human being....

How many millions in the church, ( not counting outside of the church) have been butchered by these demonic inspired methods, that are as old as time, to prevent by any means necessary, the "multiplying and replenishing of the earth". (Book of Jasher mentions it in tower of Babel, Nimrods day)
How can the Spirit of God abide when our hands are dripping with the blood of innocent, as a church and a nation.
All of the the other problems of the day combined, pale in comparison. Although, I do believe that it is because of the rejection of the fulness of the Gospel that we as a church are in the shape we are in. And that started ages ago.
A man or woman who is truly in the spirit of the gospel would not even entertain the thought of limiting their family/children.
So we are also sacrificing our children to Moloch. That which God hates.

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 1:50 pm All this crying and whining about the vaccine and various doctrinal changes in the church.
But all of it pales in comparison to the murdering of our offspring, in the church. (But also out of the church).

The Pill Often Causes Early Abortions
“Contraceptive” means a method of birth control prevents fertilization of the egg by the sperm by placing a physical barrier between them. However, all birth control pills and the other hormone-based methods of birth control on the market today function as abortifacients part of the time. The Pill often ends early pregnancies by preventing implantation of an already fertilized egg, or very early human being....

How many millions in the church, ( not counting outside of the church) have been butchered by these demonic inspired methods, that are as old as time, to prevent by any means necessary, the "multiplying and replenishing of the earth". (Book of Jasher mentions it in tower of Babel, Nimrods day)
How can the Spirit of God abide when our hands are dripping with the blood of innocent, as a church and a nation.
All of the the other problems of the day combined, pale in comparison. Although, I do believe that it is because of the rejection of the fulness of the Gospel that we as a church are in the shape we are in. And that started ages ago.
A man or woman who is truly in the spirit of the gospel would not even entertain the thought of limiting their family/children.
So we are also sacrificing our children to Moloch. That which God hates.
First you are right. The offers of our children to Moloch is horrible and a great evil.

Do you have any idea how many people have been harmed by the gene therapy experiment that was sold to the population with lies and bait and switch tactics as well as pure tyranny and manipulation.

Loaded question but I can prove every implication in my question without fail.

Just as what you say, the same god is being served with those who pushed out, supported, and uplifted the mandates. It was done as a sacrifice to Moloch so they could get gain and more knowledge so they can use that knowledge to enslave and control and it is all in the service of false gods.

...

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 2:34 pm
simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 1:50 pm All this crying and whining about the vaccine and various doctrinal changes in the church.
But all of it pales in comparison to the murdering of our offspring, in the church. (But also out of the church).

The Pill Often Causes Early Abortions
“Contraceptive” means a method of birth control prevents fertilization of the egg by the sperm by placing a physical barrier between them. However, all birth control pills and the other hormone-based methods of birth control on the market today function as abortifacients part of the time. The Pill often ends early pregnancies by preventing implantation of an already fertilized egg, or very early human being....

How many millions in the church, ( not counting outside of the church) have been butchered by these demonic inspired methods, that are as old as time, to prevent by any means necessary, the "multiplying and replenishing of the earth". (Book of Jasher mentions it in tower of Babel, Nimrods day)
How can the Spirit of God abide when our hands are dripping with the blood of innocent, as a church and a nation.
All of the the other problems of the day combined, pale in comparison. Although, I do believe that it is because of the rejection of the fulness of the Gospel that we as a church are in the shape we are in. And that started ages ago.
A man or woman who is truly in the spirit of the gospel would not even entertain the thought of limiting their family/children.
So we are also sacrificing our children to Moloch. That which God hates.
First you are right. The offers of our children to Moloch is horrible and a great evil.

Do you have any idea how many people have been harmed by the gene therapy experiment that was sold to the population with lies and bait and switch tactics as well as pure tyranny and manipulation.

Loaded question but I can prove every implication in my question without fail.

Just as what you say, the same god is being served with those who pushed out, supported, and uplifted the mandates. It was done as a sacrifice to Moloch so they could get gain and more knowledge so they can use that knowledge to enslave and control and it is all in the service of false gods.

...
My sisters life was shortened by an experimental morning sickness drug.

Her middle name was April because of the month she was born it.

My daughters middle name is Mae because she was born on Flag Day.

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 1:50 pm All this crying and whining about the vaccine and various doctrinal changes in the church.
But all of it pales in comparison to the murdering of our offspring, in the church. (But also out of the church).

The Pill Often Causes Early Abortions
“Contraceptive” means a method of birth control prevents fertilization of the egg by the sperm by placing a physical barrier between them. However, all birth control pills and the other hormone-based methods of birth control on the market today function as abortifacients part of the time. The Pill often ends early pregnancies by preventing implantation of an already fertilized egg, or very early human being....

How many millions in the church, ( not counting outside of the church) have been butchered by these demonic inspired methods, that are as old as time, to prevent by any means necessary, the "multiplying and replenishing of the earth". (Book of Jasher mentions it in tower of Babel, Nimrods day)
How can the Spirit of God abide when our hands are dripping with the blood of innocent, as a church and a nation.
All of the the other problems of the day combined, pale in comparison. Although, I do believe that it is because of the rejection of the fulness of the Gospel that we as a church are in the shape we are in. And that started ages ago.
A man or woman who is truly in the spirit of the gospel would not even entertain the thought of limiting their family/children.
So we are also sacrificing our children to Moloch. That which God hates.
I saw a story on Gateway Pundit yesterday about some young sports figure who woke up to find out his testicles 'exploded' (apparently they grew to gigantic size and he had to be rushed into surgery). I hadn't heard about this particular side effect of the jab before, but according to the story it's not unique and there have been a number of incidents like this, because the jab apparently attacks the reproductive system. While I was horrified, the first comment to the story was perhaps one of the greatest comments I've ever seen:

"Goodness gracious, great balls of Pfizer!'

Valo
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Valo »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 29th, 2023, 2:38 pm
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 2:34 pm
simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 1:50 pm All this crying and whining about the vaccine and various doctrinal changes in the church.
But all of it pales in comparison to the murdering of our offspring, in the church. (But also out of the church).

The Pill Often Causes Early Abortions
“Contraceptive” means a method of birth control prevents fertilization of the egg by the sperm by placing a physical barrier between them. However, all birth control pills and the other hormone-based methods of birth control on the market today function as abortifacients part of the time. The Pill often ends early pregnancies by preventing implantation of an already fertilized egg, or very early human being....

How many millions in the church, ( not counting outside of the church) have been butchered by these demonic inspired methods, that are as old as time, to prevent by any means necessary, the "multiplying and replenishing of the earth". (Book of Jasher mentions it in tower of Babel, Nimrods day)
How can the Spirit of God abide when our hands are dripping with the blood of innocent, as a church and a nation.
All of the the other problems of the day combined, pale in comparison. Although, I do believe that it is because of the rejection of the fulness of the Gospel that we as a church are in the shape we are in. And that started ages ago.
A man or woman who is truly in the spirit of the gospel would not even entertain the thought of limiting their family/children.
So we are also sacrificing our children to Moloch. That which God hates.
First you are right. The offers of our children to Moloch is horrible and a great evil.

Do you have any idea how many people have been harmed by the gene therapy experiment that was sold to the population with lies and bait and switch tactics as well as pure tyranny and manipulation.

Loaded question but I can prove every implication in my question without fail.

Just as what you say, the same god is being served with those who pushed out, supported, and uplifted the mandates. It was done as a sacrifice to Moloch so they could get gain and more knowledge so they can use that knowledge to enslave and control and it is all in the service of false gods.

...
My sisters life was shortened by an experimental morning sickness drug.

Her middle name was April because of the month she was born it.

My daughters middle name is Mae because she was born on Flag Day.
Yeah that sucks. :(

...

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TheDuke
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by TheDuke »

simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 6:33 am Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.
For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.
And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

A perfect prophetic description of us today in "Zion".
got some evidence from that scripture list that says it will happen in 2023? Such BS to just grab negative scriptures from ancient Jerusalem and say it is the LDS church in 2023. Especially w/o logic or mapping or revelation. Teachings of men, mingled with ancient scripture. I get where it comes from now.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: January 29th, 2023, 4:40 pm
simpleton wrote: January 29th, 2023, 6:33 am Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.
For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.
And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

A perfect prophetic description of us today in "Zion".
got some evidence from that scripture list that says it will happen in 2023? Such BS to just grab negative scriptures from ancient Jerusalem and say it is the LDS church in 2023. Especially w/o logic or mapping or revelation. Teachings of men, mingled with ancient scripture. I get where it comes from now.
We can go back 170 years if you want. Very ubiquitous from the days of Brigham to our day.

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TheDuke
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by TheDuke »

Wolfwoman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 7:27 am No, not after I read in the scriptures not to put your trust in man. And I realized they are men (mortal humans).
This is very, very misquoted. Putting your trust in man does not mean not to trust his leaders teachings or argue their authority. It means replacing Jesus with a man. Read Amos, or Moses, or JS for that matter. Also, try to read all the words of Jesus not captured by a man (or woman). There are none. You must trust men with the teachings and revelations and to organize his church.

I guess I'm just tired of FF folks using this scripture out of context. As bad as using Isaiah to say bail out of his church or attempt at Zion. With all Isaiah's teachings, he never said to bail out or leave Jerusalem, Israel (his names for church). He says to flee to them and get more integrated (move up the servant, citizen, son path). It is teachings of men not prophets or leaders to do as you suggest here and in places quoting Isaiah.

NowWhat
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by NowWhat »

Covid opened the door. Horrific. Then I realized the significance of The Mall. Then I found out about the finances. I ignored history for a while, but ran across too much information, in people's own words, e.g., it seems to me that Brigham was a monster. Then there was pandering to progressives, including LGBTQ, WEF, UN. And it piles up almost daily. I am heartsick, and I fear that I will be alone in our neighborhood/ward. Then there was the incessant Follow the Prophet thing. I can't go to church without that being pounded into me. The ward members still are asleep about the clotshot, but the leaders cannot be asleep--yet, silence. All of my kids have left the Church, but I don't want to tell them where I am now.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Silver Pie »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 6:03 am My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption.
Same here. That's when the doubt began, even though I didn't quite realize it at the time. It was the leaders themselves that were instrumental in my mistrust beginning and growing.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Silver Pie »

Wolfwoman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 7:46 am I guess I could add more to my list.
9. Multiple changes made to temple ordinances. Multiple changes made in my lifetime alone.
Yeah. So much for unchanging ordinances.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Wolfwoman »

Silver Pie wrote: January 29th, 2023, 5:05 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 7:46 am I guess I could add more to my list.
9. Multiple changes made to temple ordinances. Multiple changes made in my lifetime alone.
Yeah. So much for unchanging ordinances.
Yeah, and I guess I could understand small changes. But the changes have been really really big. Ordinance-changing changes.

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JandD6572
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by JandD6572 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 6:03 am My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption. I used the same justification that many on the forum have used. “Well… there’s gotta be a reason, they know something that I don’t.” And come to find out, they did know something, and it was far worse that I could ever have imagined.

The next really massive turning point was the plandemic. And it piggybacked off of 9/11. There was a video posted not long ago titled “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” I think even before that, the whole “good global citizen” was also another wave of puzzlement on my part. Right before then, I was doing my best to try and justify the actions of the brethren, but the corruption just got so bad… and then to realize that they teach philosophies that directly contradict the words of Christ… that’s when I had to bow out.
My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 Reluctant, what was your tipping point about 9/11 and the church? I'm curious to know. thanks

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ransomme
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by ransomme »

It was subtle for me. There were a few minor questions which made me pay attention more. And off course to those paying attention thing became apparent, especially the more I put in into the scriptures and coming to Christ
Last edited by ransomme on January 30th, 2023, 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Niemand »

Redpilled Mormon wrote: January 29th, 2023, 2:39 pm I saw a story on Gateway Pundit yesterday about some young sports figure who woke up to find out his testicles 'exploded' (apparently they grew to gigantic size and he had to be rushed into surgery). I hadn't heard about this particular side effect of the jab before, but according to the story it's not unique and there have been a number of incidents like this, because the jab apparently attacks the reproductive system. While I was horrified, the first comment to the story was perhaps one of the greatest comments I've ever seen:

"Goodness gracious, great balls of Pfizer!'
It seems to have a major effect on mechanics down there, from interrupted periods to impotence. I've also heard horrorstories of women in their fifties and sixties having periods again under it.

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Wolfwoman »

TheDuke wrote: January 29th, 2023, 4:46 pm
Wolfwoman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 7:27 am No, not after I read in the scriptures not to put your trust in man. And I realized they are men (mortal humans).
This is very, very misquoted. Putting your trust in man does not mean not to trust his leaders teachings or argue their authority. It means replacing Jesus with a man. Read Amos, or Moses, or JS for that matter. Also, try to read all the words of Jesus not captured by a man (or woman). There are none. You must trust men with the teachings and revelations and to organize his church.

I guess I'm just tired of FF folks using this scripture out of context. As bad as using Isaiah to say bail out of his church or attempt at Zion. With all Isaiah's teachings, he never said to bail out or leave Jerusalem, Israel (his names for church). He says to flee to them and get more integrated (move up the servant, citizen, son path). It is teachings of men not prophets or leaders to do as you suggest here and in places quoting Isaiah.


Your own comment was:

“I trust my neighbor but lock my car. I asked for your login but didn't get it.”

So I’d say we agree on more than we disagree.

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JandD6572
captain of 100
Posts: 292

Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by JandD6572 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:32 pm
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:27 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:13 pm
Valo wrote: January 29th, 2023, 10:51 am

I speak out. I am not silent. I am not afraid of them. But I know there are evil people in the Church who take advantage of those who are vulnerable. If all the good men and women leave who will look be there so speak in defense of the vulnerable?

I said for a reason that if you dedicate all that you do to God and make sure what you say and what you do is genuinely and sincerely motivated by your love for God and your desire to do His will, then something extraordinary happens but you have to experience it to know it.

God sustains those who put their trust in Him. When you speak because God put words in your mouth and you were not afraid of the consequences, things work out for your good.

It's an amazing thing.

...
I’m not afraid of the consequences. That’s why I am no longer welcome in church.
Right I heard you and I understand you.

Go anyways. Don't go because you are welcome. Go to be an instrument in God's hand. That's another perspective.

...
I’ll listen to what the Spirit has prompted me. I would be asked to leave immediately. I have a friend who got up and called out the apostate nature of the church. The bishop threatened to call the police if he ever did that again.

It appears you have a very different mission than I do. My stomach can’t handle false church beliefs and traditions.
I switched to a local Baptist church now. so many burdens have been lifted.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Location: “if thine eye offend thee, pluck him out.”
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Re: Do you trust the leaders of the LDS church?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JandD6572 wrote: January 30th, 2023, 1:41 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 29th, 2023, 6:03 am My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 and why they didn’t call out the corruption. I used the same justification that many on the forum have used. “Well… there’s gotta be a reason, they know something that I don’t.” And come to find out, they did know something, and it was far worse that I could ever have imagined.

The next really massive turning point was the plandemic. And it piggybacked off of 9/11. There was a video posted not long ago titled “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” I think even before that, the whole “good global citizen” was also another wave of puzzlement on my part. Right before then, I was doing my best to try and justify the actions of the brethren, but the corruption just got so bad… and then to realize that they teach philosophies that directly contradict the words of Christ… that’s when I had to bow out.
My tipping point? I believe questions about the church really started with 9/11 Reluctant, what was your tipping point about 9/11 and the church? I'm curious to know. thanks
After 9/11 I went down the rabbit hole. It was apparent to me that what the news and our government were telling us was false, as in they were complicit on some level. True Gadianton type stuff right out of the BoM. I tried telling my friends and family and hardly any of them would listen. Literal deer in the headlight kind of stares, or “you’re seriously off your rocker” kind of reactions. In my mind this was the perfect opportunity for our church to give even the slightest hint of our “awful situation” as prophesied in the BoM. I mean, it was the perfect scenario to drop just a hint that our own government was sabotaged and to prepare for tough times. And at minimum, how we should be cautious of carefully crafted messages from the media. (The media were pretty sloppy actually.) I just didn’t know our own church would go along with the false narrative. I thought we had more integrity than that.

And what did we get? Hinkley quoting Joel in GC and the church fired the one BYU professor that proved explosives were used in the demolition of the buildings. Learning from this experience would have been the perfect way to prepare the saints to handle to plandemic. “Hey, look everybody, be careful about what the media is telling you. They don’t always tell the truth, sometimes they lie, this whack-a-mole-jabby-jab is highly suspicious…. And most likely not ‘safe and effective’, you may want to wait for a bit more research. Oh, and btw, Ivermectin and other therapeutics are nearly 100% safe and 100% effective at treating the virus that was concocted in a lab.”

It wasn’t until last year are reading more into the LDS connections to all of these alphabet agencies that I realized Hinckley knew exactly what was going on. He knew exactly what MK Ultra is.

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