Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Church

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TheDuke
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by TheDuke »

anonymous91 wrote: January 28th, 2023, 4:05 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 27th, 2023, 4:07 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 27th, 2023, 3:22 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 27th, 2023, 2:58 pm

Okay, sent the following message to the President of FAIR:

"Scott,

I'm not sure how involved you are in looking at each answer your organization provides, but the page you have up regarding Russell M. Nelson's involvement with Skull and Bones is very poorly done.

There's a group of people who have intensively researched this topic, and we could provide you with a lot of primary source documents that would more honestly and thoroughly answer the question posed. Would you like us to send you that material?

Thanks for all you do, and I look forward to hearing from you soon....

Justin Riggs
720-505-1323
juriggs@gmail.com"

I also sent a similar message to their general inbox. I'll let you know what I hear back.
Well, that was fast. Got word back from FAIR. They said they'd be happy to look at information that could improve their answer:

<redacted, so as to not doxx anyone>
Hi, Justin. We're always open to improvement. I'd be interested in seeing your research on this.

Thanks,
<redacted>
FAIR Volunteer (opinions given are my own and not necessarily those of FAIR or the Church)

Here's how I responded:

"Great.

Do you need it in a nice, clean package, or are you guys willing to wade through some material and pick out what you think is relevant?

The evidence largely exists on two or three threads on a discussion forum. It consists of links to primary source documents like President Nelson's autobiography, the Utonian yearbooks that have President Nelson's Skull and Bones and Owl and Key pictures, and other Utonian yearbook pictures that show that Skull and Bones isn't and wasn't just some "honors association". There are pictures of Skull and Bones members in drag, in black face, and a quote saying something to the effect of "Skull and Bones has taught us to believe in infanticide".

I should mention, many of the people doing this research are very upset, so you'll have to be prepared to wade through that if you want to see everything available.

I'm more curious than upset, so if you'd like me to curate it, I can do that and get back to you in the next few days.

I should also tell you, this is a much bigger problem than just President Nelson. We've identified probably close to a hundred prominent Church members, businessmen, politicians, academics, and leaders that joined secret societies despite their being clear counsel from the prophet's of their day to avoid such affiliations. We've also shown that language regarding secret societies was removed from the General Handbook right at the time President Nelson became an apostle, and then the temple questions were changed to be more "secret society friendly" right after President Nelson became President of the Church.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed, and we'll work to help you improve your answer. Thanks for being willing to take a look at what's out there and improve the quality of the answers on your site. I appreciate that spirit of inquiry very much!

Justin

I probably should have said, "if you want me to curate it, I'll work with the others and pull it together", because I want and will need y'alls help on this. Sorry... things are moving awfully fast right now, and I'm making some mistakes I normally wouldn't. Forgive me for that.
Holy cow.

Well, that got awkward fast.

Here was the FAIR volunteers response to me:

"I would be interested in perusing whatever you can point me to. However, you should be aware that we are interested in debunking the idea that this was an evil secret society, rather than accepting it."

So I wrote back:

"Hmmm, well that's an interesting position to take.

Are you not interested in following the evidence to its logical conclusion and presenting the facts (for both sides of the argument)? Because I think it might be hard to debunk the idea that it was not an evil, secret society when the people involved in it show up to interviews in black robes and white masks in an effort to conceal their identity, and you see what the group has been up to when you go through the Utonian archives.

I'm also not sure I want to spend time and effort pulling things together just to have it rejected because you've presupposed an outcome. But I'd be happy to have you look at what's out there, present it as it stands in the historical record, and then argue that they were just joking around.

In fact, the easiest thing would probably be for you to do this. Go to this link:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/search ... um_utonian

It's all the Utonians. There's some debate as to when Skull and Bones started at the University of Utah, so you'll have to start around 1905, but go through each year and just search for Skull and Bones.

Then post that new evidence on the site, and let me know, and I'll take a look and see if you missed anything."

The President got back to me, too. I think I'm going to check with him and see if this is the official position of the organization.
Fair Mormon my @#*$! Which part of Secret Society are they having difficulty comprehending? Maybe, we ought to send them a copy of The Book of Mormon and one of President Benson's talks concerning Secret combinations.

Here's a few verses to direct them to:

“And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed...yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be. Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you.” Moroni, The Book of Mormon, Ether 8:21-25

and here is an excerpt from one of President Benson's talks:

“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.” Ezra Taft Benson, I Testify, Ensign, p. 87. November 1988.

If this is what they consider to be a "fair" position, they have a warped sense of reality. SMH
Please send me (PM if you like) you're email logon for LDS FF, and your bank and savings accounts. I mean your statement is valid and I don't think keeping and signing up for secrets like this (avatar here etc) is in your best interest given how much you hate secret societies. After all, it will all be out in the open some day, so I might as well see it today..

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Thinker
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Thinker »

Privacy is not the same as secret combinations, but nice try, Duke.


The 13 most powerful members of 'Skull and Bones' (US Presidents, both George Bushes etc) https://www.businessinsider.com/most-po ... 017-3?op=1

“Is Skull and Bones simply a college fraternity drawing upon old traditions copied from a German student secret society,tapping fifteen rich boys each year to undergo an initiation that’s nothing but “mumbo-jumbo”? Or is there something sinister in the occult-based,sanitized Satanism that worships the absolute power of the state and the New World Order?” https://occult-world.com/the-order-of-skull-and-bones/

Skull & Bones is Jesuit, which “jew” Steven Swarchzman is a member. He co-founded Blackstone, which bought Ancestry (including Family Search data) so now owns many of our DNA & genealogy personal data that our church leaders gave. Ever wonder why spit is so desired - why the insistence on everyone’s DNA spit under the guise of invalid “Covid testing”?

Freemasonry is also a secret combination that uses many as cover for a “harmless” institution except we KNOW that 1 of their secret oaths is killing oneself if they reveal the secrets - because the same oath was part of lds temple endowment rituals until a few decades ago.

Who knows exactly HOW Joseph Smith was killed or by who - but we know he was a master Freemason & his sister said he suspected his own men conspiring to kill him & indeed he was murdered. Many if not all church leaders have been Freemasons. There are many other reasons to believe Freemasonry - especially at top levels - is not godly.

Image

“John Taylor reported:
…Joseph…,exclaiming: O Lord my God!... (D&C 135:1)

Willard Richards' testimony was that… [Joseph]…fell outward, exclaiming, "Oh Lord, my God!"…

Those who knew Joseph Smith believed that this was an attempt to save his life and the life of his friends by calling out to Freemasons in the mob… Among the brotherhood of Freemasons, there is the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress: "Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?" According to Masonic code, any Mason who hears another Mason utter the Grand Hailing Sign must come to his aid”
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... ge_jail%3F

Image

Image

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pho·to·syn·the·sis
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by pho·to·syn·the·sis »

Skull and Bones' requirements differ from college to college.

How do you know this? Is anyone really "sure" what S&B requirements are? How they vet and select members.
The most famous chapter is the Yale chapter.
Agreed
There are other chapters out there of Skull and Bones in quite a few universities with different entrance requirements.
Perhaps, but neither you or I are privy to the specifics of S&B processes, irregardless of university.

Image

Light Seeker
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Light Seeker »

pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: January 28th, 2023, 8:40 pm
Skull and Bones' requirements differ from college to college.

How do you know this? Is anyone really "sure" what S&B requirements are? How they vet and select members.
The most famous chapter is the Yale chapter.
Agreed
There are other chapters out there of Skull and Bones in quite a few universities with different entrance requirements.
Perhaps, but neither you or I are privy to the specifics of S&B processes, irregardless of university.

Image
It's so funny that you bring this up because that's the picture they want you to look at. We have to remember that they are all about symbols and puzzles. They're also quite good at foreign languages.

https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2018/12/ ... and-bones/

First of all look at that skull. What's going on with that tooth? I don't know the answer to this question, but it doesn't look like a human tooth. Maybe an animal tooth? More important than that, look at the book that the skull is sitting on. An encyclopedia the volume that starts with "MAL-" . It means bad or evil. What about the book below it? What is one of the meanings of the word?

If you have questions google suffix sar; it's actually not a suffix, but an Arabic word.


sar (imperfect jsir, past participle misjur)
(copulative) to become
Studjat il-Latin u saret għalliema.
She studied Latin and became a teacher.
(with imperfect verb) to come to; to start to
Sirt nifhem xi jfisser tkun fqir.
I came to understand what it means to be poor.
(intransitive, of fruits) to ripen
(intransitive, of food) to be cooking; to become ready; to be in the oven, on the hob
Is-soppa qed issir.
The soup is cooking.

Before you deny that this has to do with the University of Utah Skull and Bones chapter, here is the article that the picture is attached to. Notice it says in the article "Courtesy of the University of Utah Skull and Bones Society."
07997532-7DAB-491B-B7FD-3D7F77AD6A23.jpeg
07997532-7DAB-491B-B7FD-3D7F77AD6A23.jpeg (61.97 KiB) Viewed 777 times
Courtesy of the University of Utah Skull and Bones Society.

If I were trying to solve the puzzle based on the symbols this picture, it is telling me that we don't believe that we are fully human(tooth) and that we have chosen to become evil (or bad).

Am I on the right track?
Last edited by Light Seeker on January 29th, 2023, 6:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TheDuke
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by TheDuke »

I do like Halloween my self. But, it isn't real life.

Light Seeker
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Light Seeker »

In the 1911 Utonian there is a calendar (linked below) that refers to antics by the Skull and Bones that were enlivening to the community on November 24. What might the brotherhood of death be involved in that got the attention of the community?



https://collections.lib.utah.edu/detail ... t_i=740079

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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by anonymous91 »

TheDuke wrote: January 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm
anonymous91 wrote: January 28th, 2023, 4:05 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 27th, 2023, 4:07 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 27th, 2023, 3:22 pm

Well, that was fast. Got word back from FAIR. They said they'd be happy to look at information that could improve their answer:

<redacted, so as to not doxx anyone>
Hi, Justin. We're always open to improvement. I'd be interested in seeing your research on this.

Thanks,
<redacted>
FAIR Volunteer (opinions given are my own and not necessarily those of FAIR or the Church)

Here's how I responded:

"Great.

Do you need it in a nice, clean package, or are you guys willing to wade through some material and pick out what you think is relevant?

The evidence largely exists on two or three threads on a discussion forum. It consists of links to primary source documents like President Nelson's autobiography, the Utonian yearbooks that have President Nelson's Skull and Bones and Owl and Key pictures, and other Utonian yearbook pictures that show that Skull and Bones isn't and wasn't just some "honors association". There are pictures of Skull and Bones members in drag, in black face, and a quote saying something to the effect of "Skull and Bones has taught us to believe in infanticide".

I should mention, many of the people doing this research are very upset, so you'll have to be prepared to wade through that if you want to see everything available.

I'm more curious than upset, so if you'd like me to curate it, I can do that and get back to you in the next few days.

I should also tell you, this is a much bigger problem than just President Nelson. We've identified probably close to a hundred prominent Church members, businessmen, politicians, academics, and leaders that joined secret societies despite their being clear counsel from the prophet's of their day to avoid such affiliations. We've also shown that language regarding secret societies was removed from the General Handbook right at the time President Nelson became an apostle, and then the temple questions were changed to be more "secret society friendly" right after President Nelson became President of the Church.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed, and we'll work to help you improve your answer. Thanks for being willing to take a look at what's out there and improve the quality of the answers on your site. I appreciate that spirit of inquiry very much!

Justin

I probably should have said, "if you want me to curate it, I'll work with the others and pull it together", because I want and will need y'alls help on this. Sorry... things are moving awfully fast right now, and I'm making some mistakes I normally wouldn't. Forgive me for that.
Holy cow.

Well, that got awkward fast.

Here was the FAIR volunteers response to me:

"I would be interested in perusing whatever you can point me to. However, you should be aware that we are interested in debunking the idea that this was an evil secret society, rather than accepting it."

So I wrote back:

"Hmmm, well that's an interesting position to take.

Are you not interested in following the evidence to its logical conclusion and presenting the facts (for both sides of the argument)? Because I think it might be hard to debunk the idea that it was not an evil, secret society when the people involved in it show up to interviews in black robes and white masks in an effort to conceal their identity, and you see what the group has been up to when you go through the Utonian archives.

I'm also not sure I want to spend time and effort pulling things together just to have it rejected because you've presupposed an outcome. But I'd be happy to have you look at what's out there, present it as it stands in the historical record, and then argue that they were just joking around.

In fact, the easiest thing would probably be for you to do this. Go to this link:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/search ... um_utonian

It's all the Utonians. There's some debate as to when Skull and Bones started at the University of Utah, so you'll have to start around 1905, but go through each year and just search for Skull and Bones.

Then post that new evidence on the site, and let me know, and I'll take a look and see if you missed anything."

The President got back to me, too. I think I'm going to check with him and see if this is the official position of the organization.
Fair Mormon my @#*$! Which part of Secret Society are they having difficulty comprehending? Maybe, we ought to send them a copy of The Book of Mormon and one of President Benson's talks concerning Secret combinations.

Here's a few verses to direct them to:

“And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed...yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be. Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you.” Moroni, The Book of Mormon, Ether 8:21-25

and here is an excerpt from one of President Benson's talks:

“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.” Ezra Taft Benson, I Testify, Ensign, p. 87. November 1988.

If this is what they consider to be a "fair" position, they have a warped sense of reality. SMH
Please send me (PM if you like) you're email logon for LDS FF, and your bank and savings accounts. I mean your statement is valid and I don't think keeping and signing up for secrets like this (avatar here etc) is in your best interest given how much you hate secret societies. After all, it will all be out in the open some day, so I might as well see it today..
@Duke the information you requested is private, not secret. You are conflating the two erroneously, although in a humorous manner which gave me a good chuckle.

I'm positive that when setting up my LDS FF & bank accounts I didn't make any blood oaths either. Additionally, I haven't been required by either to do anything in secret that would go against God either. In fact, I can walk you through all of the generic, boring, and dull details for both accounts too. There are absolutely no secrets for me to tell.

Can a member of The Skull & Bones honestly say the same thing?

One thing to add is just because someone claims to be speaking the truth, doesn't mean that they are not hiding, obfuscating, and/or using subterfuge to control the narrative.

For example, in the upper echelons of the Illuminati (which includes Skull & Bones, Masonic Society, and many other organizations) they believe that God is literally Satan; it's a complete inversion. It goes a bit deeper than this, they believe and pledge their souls to their God (aka Satan) and believe that he will save them. So, when someone believes this, and they say "God loves us follow him" they truly believe this in their hearts, they are not lying.

Let me ask though, is the God they choose to worship the same God you choose to worship?

This leads down a bit of a rabbit hole when you realize the significance of this.

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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Light Seeker »

Team . I apologize . I see that the photo and the link I referenced late last night did not attach. It is there now . Please scroll up a couple of responses to see the new info .

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

TheDuke wrote: January 28th, 2023, 9:18 pm I do like Halloween my self. But, it isn't real life.
You might not take it seriously, but they certainly do.

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ransomme
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by ransomme »

Subcomandante wrote: January 28th, 2023, 8:01 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 28th, 2023, 7:22 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 27th, 2023, 10:45 pm Bashing the prophet for having taken part in a college fraternity group back in the 40s that just happens to have the same name as another, far more sinister college fraternity group in a college back east?

That's pretty low IMO.

That's about as bad as a leftist that looks up what a person said in the 1990s about gays then tries to use it as a political weapon in 2023. In fact it is worse.
How about encouraging the entire membership of the church to follow corrupt governments and to take a chemical concoction that was completely ineffective and either killed or maimed many of them? I know you tend to enjoy the who “good global citizens” thing, but it is evil when you see who they are aligning themselves with. “Bashing” is how you perceive it, righteous indignation and judgment is a more appropriate perspective.
The chemical concoction that you speak of has been proven to be quite effective in lowering the severe symptoms of the disease. Literally HUNDREDS of studies prove this, all of them peer-reviewed. In fact, it has been proven that there are more cases of COVID-induced myocarditis than there have been myocarditis cases induced by the COVID vaccines. Masks and vaccines are not evil.

Jesus sat with the publicans and sinners, much to the chagrin of the Pharisees of his day. Many here are Pharisees that whine and moan about President Nelson going to the NAACP and LDS Charities teaming up with UNHCR and UNICEF.

Jesus had a Roman Tax Collector as one of his disciples. He also had Judas Iscariot and he was over the treasury. I can imagine the forum's response if an Apostle today were to pass away and he were to be replaced by someone who worked in the IRS. Oh, wait, I don't have to!

Everyone hates Gong because of his affiliation with the CFR! Augh, the humanity!!!

Everyone hates Uchtdorf because one of his family members donated to the Biden campaign using Uchtdorf's credit card. Gasp! The humanity of reaffirming that you don't have to belong to a specific political party in order to be a good member of the Church.

Everyone hates Oaks because, OMG!!! He happened to go to the University of Chicago and clerked for Earl Warren, eternal boogyman of many on this board due to his liberal ideology.
What's your favorite flavor?

Light Seeker
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Light Seeker »

ransomme wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:03 pm
Subcomandante wrote: January 28th, 2023, 8:01 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 28th, 2023, 7:22 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 27th, 2023, 10:45 pm Bashing the prophet for having taken part in a college fraternity group back in the 40s that just happens to have the same name as another, far more sinister college fraternity group in a college back east?

That's pretty low IMO.

That's about as bad as a leftist that looks up what a person said in the 1990s about gays then tries to use it as a political weapon in 2023. In fact it is worse.
How about encouraging the entire membership of the church to follow corrupt governments and to take a chemical concoction that was completely ineffective and either killed or maimed many of them? I know you tend to enjoy the who “good global citizens” thing, but it is evil when you see who they are aligning themselves with. “Bashing” is how you perceive it, righteous indignation and judgment is a more appropriate perspective.
The chemical concoction that you speak of has been proven to be quite effective in lowering the severe symptoms of the disease. Literally HUNDREDS of studies prove this, all of them peer-reviewed. In fact, it has been proven that there are more cases of COVID-induced myocarditis than there have been myocarditis cases induced by the COVID vaccines. Masks and vaccines are not evil.

Jesus sat with the publicans and sinners, much to the chagrin of the Pharisees of his day. Many here are Pharisees that whine and moan about President Nelson going to the NAACP and LDS Charities teaming up with UNHCR and UNICEF.

Jesus had a Roman Tax Collector as one of his disciples. He also had Judas Iscariot and he was over the treasury. I can imagine the forum's response if an Apostle today were to pass away and he were to be replaced by someone who worked in the IRS. Oh, wait, I don't have to!

Everyone hates Gong because of his affiliation with the CFR! Augh, the humanity!!!

Everyone hates Uchtdorf because one of his family members donated to the Biden campaign using Uchtdorf's credit card. Gasp! The humanity of reaffirming that you don't have to belong to a specific political party in order to be a good member of the Church.

Everyone hates Oaks because, OMG!!! He happened to go to the University of Chicago and clerked for Earl Warren, eternal boogyman of many on this board due to his liberal ideology.
What's your favorite flavor?
Mandarin ……

I kill myself …..

Light Seeker
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Light Seeker »

I've attached an article from the Deseret Evening News dated 1-8-1909 that outlines a group of Yale Alumni meeting together to discuss establishing an Alumni Association in Salt Lake City, UT. A total of 32 men met at the home of Dean Benjamin Brewster (Pres.) an 1882 Yale graduate and Skull and Bones member, with V.P. Hon. Elsworth Daggett an 1864 Yale graduate and Skull and Bones member with Sec. Roger Sherman.

The second attachment is a list of Skull and Bones members from Yale up through 2006.

I think the argument that the University of Utah chapter of Skull and Bones is not affiliated or organized and run in the same way is no longer valid.

This was orchestrated.

https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/details ... Utah%29%29


http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bones.htm

This will be cross posted in the Aristocrat thread as it is pertinent to both.

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madvin
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by madvin »

Subcomandante wrote: January 28th, 2023, 8:01 am

The chemical concoction that you speak of has been proven to be quite effective in lowering the severe symptoms of the disease. Literally HUNDREDS of studies prove this, all of them peer-reviewed. In fact, it has been proven that there are more cases of COVID-induced myocarditis than there have been myocarditis cases induced by the COVID vaccines. Masks and vaccines are not evil.

Jesus sat with the publicans and sinners, much to the chagrin of the Pharisees of his day. Many here are Pharisees that whine and moan about President Nelson going to the NAACP and LDS Charities teaming up with UNHCR and UNICEF.

Jesus had a Roman Tax Collector as one of his disciples. He also had Judas Iscariot and he was over the treasury. I can imagine the forum's response if an Apostle today were to pass away and he were to be replaced by someone who worked in the IRS. Oh, wait, I don't have to!

Everyone hates Gong because of his affiliation with the CFR! Augh, the humanity!!!

Everyone hates Uchtdorf because one of his family members donated to the Biden campaign using Uchtdorf's credit card. Gasp! The humanity of reaffirming that you don't have to belong to a specific political party in order to be a good member of the Church.

Everyone hates Oaks because, OMG!!! He happened to go to the University of Chicago and clerked for Earl Warren, eternal boogyman of many on this board due to his liberal ideology.
Studies put forth by Pfizer. What other conclusion would one expect from them? Peer reviewed? Who are their peers? The same people that refuse to perform experiments using controls. I see you resist doing due diligence in actually looking at these so-called "studies".

Please come through with actual facts.

But you cannot.

I am not against them sitting with NAACP, etc., as Jesus did with the publicans, but can you really say they merely sat with them? They did more than that. They are supporting them.

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gradles21
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by gradles21 »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: January 28th, 2023, 1:08 pm
Subcomandante wrote: January 28th, 2023, 12:03 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: January 28th, 2023, 11:56 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 28th, 2023, 11:54 am

My wife and I had two shots. My kids did get their shots but with the Cuban vaccine.
I thought you said previously that you chose to not get it for yourself and family. What changed?
I always had the shots as did my wife.

My kids did NOT get the shots because the only ones that were available at the time were the Pfizer shots. We have misgivings about Pfizer.

But the Abdala shots were made available and after doing our research we decided to go for those.
Oh, then I did misremember... But... Why aren't you up to date on all your boosters?
So he can play both sides of the argument. I know a bunch of friends and family that ONLY got the first two shots just so they could say that they were following the prophet.

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Hogmeister
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by Hogmeister »

Luke wrote: January 28th, 2023, 11:17 am
TheDuke wrote: January 28th, 2023, 11:04 am Even JS went to DC and hob nobbed to influence the President (no less).
I don’t understand how people seriously think that the two are the same.

Joseph went and threatened the politicians with fire and brimstone from Heaven if they didn’t assist the Saints and continued to persecute them. He didn’t suck up to them. Can you imagine the present leaders doing the same thing? Of course you can’t.
Where is latter day Elias? John the Baptist called the church/political leaders a generation of vipers (the most cursed animal and a symbol for the devil himself) and was put in prison and later beheaded for speaking truth to power. Pretty much being the opposite of a good global citizen.

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RTStone
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Re: Church Leaders and Secret Societies: An Open Letter That Was Sent to Several Hundred General Authorities of the Chur

Post by RTStone »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 28th, 2023, 7:22 am
Subcomandante wrote: January 27th, 2023, 10:45 pm Bashing the prophet for having taken part in a college fraternity group back in the 40s that just happens to have the same name as another, far more sinister college fraternity group in a college back east?

That's pretty low IMO.

That's about as bad as a leftist that looks up what a person said in the 1990s about gays then tries to use it as a political weapon in 2023. In fact it is worse.
How about encouraging the entire membership of the church to follow corrupt governments and to take a chemical concoction that was completely ineffective and either killed or maimed many of them? I know you tend to enjoy the whole “good global citizens” thing, but it is evil when you see who they are aligning themselves with. “Bashing” is how you perceive it, righteous indignation and judgment is a more appropriate perspective.
I left the church for this very reason. Jim Jones was an amateur compared to RMN. I wrote a 10 page letter to my former church leaders and was basically ignored. The clot shot is a bio-weapon. The Gaddianton Robbers are pushing this to reduce the population by 95%. They are pure evil. I am still amazed at all the sheep still following the profit. How many more have to die to call these people who pushed this shot murderers? It is way too late to claim ignorance.

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