Can't really disagree with her

[CuriousThinker]

My 15 yo daughter sent me these texts last night.-

You know how weird it is that only like 3% of our church actually UNDERSTAND the gospel?

Like EEEEEVERYONE else is confused

And its because it's the blind leading the friggin blind half the time

Like a buncha kids that didnt fully pay attention during sunday school grow up and are tasked with teaching more kids stuff

Not to mention all the weird hush hush crap that we're supposed to know about but for some reason arent really allowed to talk about

Like no freaking WONDER there are so many misconceptions about the church

Nobody in the CHURCH understands the church


We talked about her texts this morning. I agreed with her and told her that's why we need to understand the scriptures and have the Holy Ghost with us- to know when people teach things that aren't true.

[Cruiserdude]

My 15 yo daughter sent me these texts last night.-

You know how weird it is that only like 3% of our church actually UNDERSTAND the gospel?

Like EEEEEVERYONE else is confused

And its because it's the blind leading the friggin blind half the time

Like a buncha kids that didnt fully pay attention during sunday school grow up and are tasked with teaching more kids stuff

Not to mention all the weird hush hush crap that we're supposed to know about but for some reason arent really allowed to talk about

Like no freaking WONDER there are so many misconceptions about the church

Nobody in the CHURCH understands the church


We talked about her texts this morning. I agreed with her and told her that's why we need to understand the scriptures and have the Holy Ghost with us- to know when people teach things that aren't true.

Wow. What wisdom for such a young woman!!! She's fortunate to have a mom that can 'see' and 'hear' in order to help her continue along when turbulence inevitably shows up on her path! Good for you! It's awesome to see something so lacking in our adults be so abundant in a youth!!

[endlessQuestions]

My 15 yo daughter sent me these texts last night.-

You know how weird it is that only like 3% of our church actually UNDERSTAND the gospel?

Like EEEEEVERYONE else is confused

And its because it's the blind leading the friggin blind half the time

Like a buncha kids that didnt fully pay attention during sunday school grow up and are tasked with teaching more kids stuff

Not to mention all the weird hush hush crap that we're supposed to know about but for some reason arent really allowed to talk about

Like no freaking WONDER there are so many misconceptions about the church

Nobody in the CHURCH understands the church


We talked about her texts this morning. I agreed with her and told her that's why we need to understand the scriptures and have the Holy Ghost with us- to know when people teach things that aren't true.

Sounds like you've got a good one.

Make sure to remind her we were never asked to "understand the CHURCH".

We DO need to understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then discipline ourselves to live by its precepts.

I sure hope my kids turn out as smart as yours.

[Niemand]

Not to mention all the weird hush hush crap that we're supposed to know about but for some reason arent really allowed to talk about

A lot of deep doctrine has been taken completely off the menu e.g. Enoch, the meaning of "powers and principalities", "calling and election made sure", "eternal progression" and a whole lot of other things are barely discussed if at all.

The temple is the biggest example. We aren't allowed to discuss it outside the temple, we get minimal instruction in the temple and most of what we discuss is conjecture and rumour.

There is a lot floating around now, but with not much to back it up in the lessons.

[Theveilofforgetting]

That is awesome she sees it, unfortunate that it's even a thing.

My 17yo joined the church last year. He was so perplexed about why the youth (who mostly were raised attending church every week, did all the TBM things) didn't participate in classes. The missionaries suggested it was because they were shy or at the age they didn't want to be laughed at or be embarrassed, etc. Then one asked my son how he knew so much! I think the difference might be because we have open discussions. I'm not sure every family has that option (whether it's because they're busy, they haven't studied for themselves or they are strict with their FHE or other study sessions, I am not sure).

I don't think most of the adults in my ward are clueless, quite the opposite. They certainly know the Gospel but it does feel watered down sometimes. Like people want to have deeper conversations but maybe not sure if we are allowed. I remember having amazing discussions with members years ago. Not everyone is open to that but there are a few people that are and I'm hoping I find them in my ward.

I'm actually concerned my sons are not going to be able to discern with so much counsel to 'follow the leaders'. I was in a ward council on Sunday and one of the counsellors mentioned discernment and I thought, why don't they talk about that more?

I've mentioned in other posts that the missionaries are really pushing obedience. In some countries/places you can't follow the laws of the land and God. At least, not in the ways we are taught - in particular, church on Sunday. And locally they closed chapels and temples to obey the mandates. I'd say we can't follow two masters but that is what we are essentially doing, sometimes barely mentioning our God as we fear man or whatever it may be.

[David13]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

[Atrasado]

My 15 yo daughter sent me these texts last night.-

You know how weird it is that only like 3% of our church actually UNDERSTAND the gospel?

Like EEEEEVERYONE else is confused

And its because it's the blind leading the friggin blind half the time

Like a buncha kids that didnt fully pay attention during sunday school grow up and are tasked with teaching more kids stuff

Not to mention all the weird hush hush crap that we're supposed to know about but for some reason arent really allowed to talk about

Like no freaking WONDER there are so many misconceptions about the church

Nobody in the CHURCH understands the church


We talked about her texts this morning. I agreed with her and told her that's why we need to understand the scriptures and have the Holy Ghost with us- to know when people teach things that aren't true.

I don't know if it's even 3%. I see so many people I know being utterly deceived about so many essential things. I know I was clueless and still probably don't know much. We draw near with our lips, but we deny the power thereof.

[CuriousThinker]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

Interesting that that was what you chose to notice and comment on.

[Chip]

I was talking to my son's friend yesterday who is pretty aware of the difference between what Christ taught and how the church incorporates Jesus and he said, "They've got Jesus nailed to their cross."

[Wolfwoman]

I saw a photo from the 80s when they would get little fluoride cups set out for the kids to take. I don’t know if they still do that in the schools? It made me think maybe that’s part of why the general public has a third grade reading level, Fluoride dumbed us down, along with television, public school and vaccines.

[Niemand]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

It's quite a restrained use of "like" compared to some teenagers. The good news is that many of them grow out of it.

[HVDC]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

It's quite a restrained use of "like" compared to some teenagers. The good news is that many of them grow out of it.

Like, yeah.

I totally agree with her points.

For sure.

But.

Aside from the O.P.

Here is an Interesting counterpoint from the usual suspects.

caveat; my wife is a Valley Girl

Sir H

Why Saying 'Like' a Lot Is Like, Actually a Good Thing



BY AMANDA MONTELL MAY 23, 2019 10:55 AM EDT
Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.
In 2016, I was offered a promo code to test out a new app designed to help young people talk without filler phrases like you know and like, so they could sound more “authoritative.” I tried not to take the offer personally. For decades, like has been a subject of deep linguistic ridicule — along with vocal fry and uptalk, it is probably the most recognizable aspect of “Valley girl speak.” When making fun of teenage girls, imitators go for these sorts of phrases: “I, like, went to the movies? And I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman?’ But Brad was like, ‘No way?’ So we, like, left.” (I’m not certain why people love satirizing teen girls so much, but my theory is that it’s just an excuse to speak in this highly entertaining fashion.)

Fortunately, there are plenty of language experts who’ve taken “Valley girl” speak seriously enough to figure out what it actually is. One of these scholars is Carmen Fought, a linguist from Pitzer College, who says, “If women do something like uptalk or vocal fry, it’s immediately interpreted as insecure, emotional or even stupid.” But the truth is much more interesting: Young women use the linguistic features that they do, not as mindless affectations, but as power tools for establishing and strengthening relationships. Vocal fry, uptalk and even like, are in fact not signs of ditziness, but instead all have a unique history and special social utility. And women are not the only people who use them.

Despite the word’s detractors, like is in fact extremely useful and versatile. Alexandra D’Arcy, Canadian linguist at the University of Victoria, has dedicated much of her research to identifying and understanding the many functions of like. D’Arcy ebulliently describes her work for the university’s YouTube channel: “Like is a little word that we really, really don’t like at all — and we want to blame young girls, who we think are destroying the language,” she explains. But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

According to D’Arcy, there are six completely distinct forms of the word like. The two oldest types in English are the adjective like and the verb like. In the sentence, “I like your suit, it makes you look like James Bond,” the first like is a verb and the second is an adjective — and even the crabbiest English speakers are fine with both. Today, these two likes sound exactly the same, so most people don’t even notice that they’re different words with separate histories. They’re homonyms, just how the noun watch (meaning the timepiece on your wrist) and the verb watch (meaning what you do with your eyes when you turn on the TV) are homonyms. The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch. The two converged at some point over the last 800 or so years, giving us lots of time to get used to them.

But four new likes developed much more recently than that — and D’Arcy says these are all separate words with distinct uses, as well. Only two of these likes are used more frequently by women, and only one of them is thought to have been masterminded by young Southern California females in the 1990s. That one would be the quotative like, which you hear in, “I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman.’” As lampooned as it is, pragmatically speaking, this like is one of my favorites because it allows you to tell a story, to relay something that happened, without having to quote the interaction verbatim. For example, in the sentence “My boss was like, ‘I need those papers by Monday,’ and I was like, ‘Are you f—ing kidding me?’” you’re not repeating what you truly said but instead using like to convey what you wanted to say or how you felt in the interaction. Thanks, Valley girls. This very useful quotative like continues to explode in common usage.

The other like that women tend to use more frequently is categorized as a discourse marker and can be found in contexts such as, “Like, this suit isn’t even new.” A discourse marker — sometimes called a filler word — is a type of phrase that can help a person connect, organize or express a certain attitude with their speech. Other discourse markers include the hedges just, you know and actually.

There are two last forms of like: one is an adverb, which is used to approximate something, as in the sentence, “I bought this suit like five years ago.” As of the 1970s this like has largely replaced the approximate adverb about in casual conversation, and it has always been used equally among men and women (so it isn’t hated as much). And last, there’s the discourse particle like, which we hear in, “I think this suit is like my favorite possession.” This like is similar to the discourse marker, except that it’s not used in quite the same way syntactically or semantically; plus, dudes use it just as much as women do (D’Arcy doesn’t know quite why that is), though they’re almost never ridiculed for it.

Objectively, we can see that using one, two or all of these different likes in the same sentence isn’t inherently bad. As a matter of fact, some studies have demonstrated that speech lacking in likes and you knows can sound too careful, robotic or unfriendly. So next time someone accuses you of saying like too much, feel free to ask them, “Oh really? Which kind?” Because D’Arcy says that ordinary speakers tend to buy into the Valley girl stereotype so hardcore, blaming young women for all of these likes, simply because they don’t notice the differences among them.

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. Published on May 28, 2019 by Harper Wave, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. Reprinted by permission.

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

[Niemand]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

It's quite a restrained use of "like" compared to some teenagers. The good news is that many of them grow out of it.

Like, yeah.

I totally agree with her points.

For sure.

But.

Aside from the O.P.

Here is an Interesting counterpoint from the usual suspects.

caveat; my wife is a Valley Girl

Sir H

Why Saying 'Like' a Lot Is Like, Actually a Good Thing



BY AMANDA MONTELL MAY 23, 2019 10:55 AM EDT
Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.
In 2016, I was offered a promo code to test out a new app designed to help young people talk without filler phrases like you know and like, so they could sound more “authoritative.” I tried not to take the offer personally. For decades, like has been a subject of deep linguistic ridicule — along with vocal fry and uptalk, it is probably the most recognizable aspect of “Valley girl speak.” When making fun of teenage girls, imitators go for these sorts of phrases: “I, like, went to the movies? And I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman?’ But Brad was like, ‘No way?’ So we, like, left.” (I’m not certain why people love satirizing teen girls so much, but my theory is that it’s just an excuse to speak in this highly entertaining fashion.)

Fortunately, there are plenty of language experts who’ve taken “Valley girl” speak seriously enough to figure out what it actually is. One of these scholars is Carmen Fought, a linguist from Pitzer College, who says, “If women do something like uptalk or vocal fry, it’s immediately interpreted as insecure, emotional or even stupid.” But the truth is much more interesting: Young women use the linguistic features that they do, not as mindless affectations, but as power tools for establishing and strengthening relationships. Vocal fry, uptalk and even like, are in fact not signs of ditziness, but instead all have a unique history and special social utility. And women are not the only people who use them.

Despite the word’s detractors, like is in fact extremely useful and versatile. Alexandra D’Arcy, Canadian linguist at the University of Victoria, has dedicated much of her research to identifying and understanding the many functions of like. D’Arcy ebulliently describes her work for the university’s YouTube channel: “Like is a little word that we really, really don’t like at all — and we want to blame young girls, who we think are destroying the language,” she explains. But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

According to D’Arcy, there are six completely distinct forms of the word like. The two oldest types in English are the adjective like and the verb like. In the sentence, “I like your suit, it makes you look like James Bond,” the first like is a verb and the second is an adjective — and even the crabbiest English speakers are fine with both. Today, these two likes sound exactly the same, so most people don’t even notice that they’re different words with separate histories. They’re homonyms, just how the noun watch (meaning the timepiece on your wrist) and the verb watch (meaning what you do with your eyes when you turn on the TV) are homonyms. The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch. The two converged at some point over the last 800 or so years, giving us lots of time to get used to them.

But four new likes developed much more recently than that — and D’Arcy says these are all separate words with distinct uses, as well. Only two of these likes are used more frequently by women, and only one of them is thought to have been masterminded by young Southern California females in the 1990s. That one would be the quotative like, which you hear in, “I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman.’” As lampooned as it is, pragmatically speaking, this like is one of my favorites because it allows you to tell a story, to relay something that happened, without having to quote the interaction verbatim. For example, in the sentence “My boss was like, ‘I need those papers by Monday,’ and I was like, ‘Are you f—ing kidding me?’” you’re not repeating what you truly said but instead using like to convey what you wanted to say or how you felt in the interaction. Thanks, Valley girls. This very useful quotative like continues to explode in common usage.

The other like that women tend to use more frequently is categorized as a discourse marker and can be found in contexts such as, “Like, this suit isn’t even new.” A discourse marker — sometimes called a filler word — is a type of phrase that can help a person connect, organize or express a certain attitude with their speech. Other discourse markers include the hedges just, you know and actually.

There are two last forms of like: one is an adverb, which is used to approximate something, as in the sentence, “I bought this suit like five years ago.” As of the 1970s this like has largely replaced the approximate adverb about in casual conversation, and it has always been used equally among men and women (so it isn’t hated as much). And last, there’s the discourse particle like, which we hear in, “I think this suit is like my favorite possession.” This like is similar to the discourse marker, except that it’s not used in quite the same way syntactically or semantically; plus, dudes use it just as much as women do (D’Arcy doesn’t know quite why that is), though they’re almost never ridiculed for it.

Objectively, we can see that using one, two or all of these different likes in the same sentence isn’t inherently bad. As a matter of fact, some studies have demonstrated that speech lacking in likes and you knows can sound too careful, robotic or unfriendly. So next time someone accuses you of saying like too much, feel free to ask them, “Oh really? Which kind?” Because D’Arcy says that ordinary speakers tend to buy into the Valley girl stereotype so hardcore, blaming young women for all of these likes, simply because they don’t notice the differences among them.

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. Published on May 28, 2019 by Harper Wave, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. Reprinted by permission.

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

I'm sure there's a meme for this:

Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.

Eek!

The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch.

She doesn't mention that the ultimate etymology is an old word for corpse! "Lych gates" are common in old English churches (but almost unknown in Scotland for whatever reason) take their name from this since the dead were carried under them.



In German, they still use the word Leiche to refer to corpses.

But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

Not quite... or at least in my experience. The difference seems to be where it is placed.

Example:
* This is like, really bad.
* Like, this is really bad.

Those are both the teenage usage. Maybe "this is really, like, bad" as well.

The older people in those villages would be more likely to say: "This is really bad, like", and shove the word on the end, which is not what little girls do. (They'd also use "like I say", which is a bit different too.)

I still haven't come across the apocalyptic combination of terminal "like" with the Valley Girl style usage: "Like, this, like, is, like, really, like, bad, like!"

I once cracked a joke about its overuse in a church talk.

You'll be glad to hear that the vocal fry rubbish doesn't appear to have crossed the Pond yet. As far I know.

We shouldn't criticise this 15 year old girl much though. She seems to have her head screwed on and it's always a good thing when the young speak sense. A friend's sixteen year old daughter (now much older) once said to me "Facebook is where old people go to fight". Simple but true.

[CuriousThinker]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

It's quite a restrained use of "like" compared to some teenagers. The good news is that many of them grow out of it.

Like, yeah.

I totally agree with her points.

For sure.

But.

Aside from the O.P.

Here is an Interesting counterpoint from the usual suspects.

caveat; my wife is a Valley Girl

Sir H

Why Saying 'Like' a Lot Is Like, Actually a Good Thing



BY AMANDA MONTELL MAY 23, 2019 10:55 AM EDT
Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.
In 2016, I was offered a promo code to test out a new app designed to help young people talk without filler phrases like you know and like, so they could sound more “authoritative.” I tried not to take the offer personally. For decades, like has been a subject of deep linguistic ridicule — along with vocal fry and uptalk, it is probably the most recognizable aspect of “Valley girl speak.” When making fun of teenage girls, imitators go for these sorts of phrases: “I, like, went to the movies? And I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman?’ But Brad was like, ‘No way?’ So we, like, left.” (I’m not certain why people love satirizing teen girls so much, but my theory is that it’s just an excuse to speak in this highly entertaining fashion.)

Fortunately, there are plenty of language experts who’ve taken “Valley girl” speak seriously enough to figure out what it actually is. One of these scholars is Carmen Fought, a linguist from Pitzer College, who says, “If women do something like uptalk or vocal fry, it’s immediately interpreted as insecure, emotional or even stupid.” But the truth is much more interesting: Young women use the linguistic features that they do, not as mindless affectations, but as power tools for establishing and strengthening relationships. Vocal fry, uptalk and even like, are in fact not signs of ditziness, but instead all have a unique history and special social utility. And women are not the only people who use them.

Despite the word’s detractors, like is in fact extremely useful and versatile. Alexandra D’Arcy, Canadian linguist at the University of Victoria, has dedicated much of her research to identifying and understanding the many functions of like. D’Arcy ebulliently describes her work for the university’s YouTube channel: “Like is a little word that we really, really don’t like at all — and we want to blame young girls, who we think are destroying the language,” she explains. But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

According to D’Arcy, there are six completely distinct forms of the word like. The two oldest types in English are the adjective like and the verb like. In the sentence, “I like your suit, it makes you look like James Bond,” the first like is a verb and the second is an adjective — and even the crabbiest English speakers are fine with both. Today, these two likes sound exactly the same, so most people don’t even notice that they’re different words with separate histories. They’re homonyms, just how the noun watch (meaning the timepiece on your wrist) and the verb watch (meaning what you do with your eyes when you turn on the TV) are homonyms. The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch. The two converged at some point over the last 800 or so years, giving us lots of time to get used to them.

But four new likes developed much more recently than that — and D’Arcy says these are all separate words with distinct uses, as well. Only two of these likes are used more frequently by women, and only one of them is thought to have been masterminded by young Southern California females in the 1990s. That one would be the quotative like, which you hear in, “I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman.’” As lampooned as it is, pragmatically speaking, this like is one of my favorites because it allows you to tell a story, to relay something that happened, without having to quote the interaction verbatim. For example, in the sentence “My boss was like, ‘I need those papers by Monday,’ and I was like, ‘Are you f—ing kidding me?’” you’re not repeating what you truly said but instead using like to convey what you wanted to say or how you felt in the interaction. Thanks, Valley girls. This very useful quotative like continues to explode in common usage.

The other like that women tend to use more frequently is categorized as a discourse marker and can be found in contexts such as, “Like, this suit isn’t even new.” A discourse marker — sometimes called a filler word — is a type of phrase that can help a person connect, organize or express a certain attitude with their speech. Other discourse markers include the hedges just, you know and actually.

There are two last forms of like: one is an adverb, which is used to approximate something, as in the sentence, “I bought this suit like five years ago.” As of the 1970s this like has largely replaced the approximate adverb about in casual conversation, and it has always been used equally among men and women (so it isn’t hated as much). And last, there’s the discourse particle like, which we hear in, “I think this suit is like my favorite possession.” This like is similar to the discourse marker, except that it’s not used in quite the same way syntactically or semantically; plus, dudes use it just as much as women do (D’Arcy doesn’t know quite why that is), though they’re almost never ridiculed for it.

Objectively, we can see that using one, two or all of these different likes in the same sentence isn’t inherently bad. As a matter of fact, some studies have demonstrated that speech lacking in likes and you knows can sound too careful, robotic or unfriendly. So next time someone accuses you of saying like too much, feel free to ask them, “Oh really? Which kind?” Because D’Arcy says that ordinary speakers tend to buy into the Valley girl stereotype so hardcore, blaming young women for all of these likes, simply because they don’t notice the differences among them.

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. Published on May 28, 2019 by Harper Wave, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. Reprinted by permission.

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

Thanks for sharing. My daughter and I are California valley girls.

[Niemand]

Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language...

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. ...

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

Thanks for sharing. My daughter and I are California valley girls.

Not sure about the "Wordslut" label or "taking back the English language".

[HVDC]

Your daughter seems to use the word "like" too much. A very common disease amongst the young.

It may be worse than those that repeatedly say "UM" or generally pepper their conversation or speech with that sound.
dc

It's quite a restrained use of "like" compared to some teenagers. The good news is that many of them grow out of it.

Like, yeah.

I totally agree with her points.

For sure.

But.

Aside from the O.P.

Here is an Interesting counterpoint from the usual suspects.

caveat; my wife is a Valley Girl

Sir H

Why Saying 'Like' a Lot Is Like, Actually a Good Thing



BY AMANDA MONTELL MAY 23, 2019 10:55 AM EDT
Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.
In 2016, I was offered a promo code to test out a new app designed to help young people talk without filler phrases like you know and like, so they could sound more “authoritative.” I tried not to take the offer personally. For decades, like has been a subject of deep linguistic ridicule — along with vocal fry and uptalk, it is probably the most recognizable aspect of “Valley girl speak.” When making fun of teenage girls, imitators go for these sorts of phrases: “I, like, went to the movies? And I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman?’ But Brad was like, ‘No way?’ So we, like, left.” (I’m not certain why people love satirizing teen girls so much, but my theory is that it’s just an excuse to speak in this highly entertaining fashion.)

Fortunately, there are plenty of language experts who’ve taken “Valley girl” speak seriously enough to figure out what it actually is. One of these scholars is Carmen Fought, a linguist from Pitzer College, who says, “If women do something like uptalk or vocal fry, it’s immediately interpreted as insecure, emotional or even stupid.” But the truth is much more interesting: Young women use the linguistic features that they do, not as mindless affectations, but as power tools for establishing and strengthening relationships. Vocal fry, uptalk and even like, are in fact not signs of ditziness, but instead all have a unique history and special social utility. And women are not the only people who use them.

Despite the word’s detractors, like is in fact extremely useful and versatile. Alexandra D’Arcy, Canadian linguist at the University of Victoria, has dedicated much of her research to identifying and understanding the many functions of like. D’Arcy ebulliently describes her work for the university’s YouTube channel: “Like is a little word that we really, really don’t like at all — and we want to blame young girls, who we think are destroying the language,” she explains. But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

According to D’Arcy, there are six completely distinct forms of the word like. The two oldest types in English are the adjective like and the verb like. In the sentence, “I like your suit, it makes you look like James Bond,” the first like is a verb and the second is an adjective — and even the crabbiest English speakers are fine with both. Today, these two likes sound exactly the same, so most people don’t even notice that they’re different words with separate histories. They’re homonyms, just how the noun watch (meaning the timepiece on your wrist) and the verb watch (meaning what you do with your eyes when you turn on the TV) are homonyms. The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch. The two converged at some point over the last 800 or so years, giving us lots of time to get used to them.

But four new likes developed much more recently than that — and D’Arcy says these are all separate words with distinct uses, as well. Only two of these likes are used more frequently by women, and only one of them is thought to have been masterminded by young Southern California females in the 1990s. That one would be the quotative like, which you hear in, “I was like, ‘I want to see Superwoman.’” As lampooned as it is, pragmatically speaking, this like is one of my favorites because it allows you to tell a story, to relay something that happened, without having to quote the interaction verbatim. For example, in the sentence “My boss was like, ‘I need those papers by Monday,’ and I was like, ‘Are you f—ing kidding me?’” you’re not repeating what you truly said but instead using like to convey what you wanted to say or how you felt in the interaction. Thanks, Valley girls. This very useful quotative like continues to explode in common usage.

The other like that women tend to use more frequently is categorized as a discourse marker and can be found in contexts such as, “Like, this suit isn’t even new.” A discourse marker — sometimes called a filler word — is a type of phrase that can help a person connect, organize or express a certain attitude with their speech. Other discourse markers include the hedges just, you know and actually.

There are two last forms of like: one is an adverb, which is used to approximate something, as in the sentence, “I bought this suit like five years ago.” As of the 1970s this like has largely replaced the approximate adverb about in casual conversation, and it has always been used equally among men and women (so it isn’t hated as much). And last, there’s the discourse particle like, which we hear in, “I think this suit is like my favorite possession.” This like is similar to the discourse marker, except that it’s not used in quite the same way syntactically or semantically; plus, dudes use it just as much as women do (D’Arcy doesn’t know quite why that is), though they’re almost never ridiculed for it.

Objectively, we can see that using one, two or all of these different likes in the same sentence isn’t inherently bad. As a matter of fact, some studies have demonstrated that speech lacking in likes and you knows can sound too careful, robotic or unfriendly. So next time someone accuses you of saying like too much, feel free to ask them, “Oh really? Which kind?” Because D’Arcy says that ordinary speakers tend to buy into the Valley girl stereotype so hardcore, blaming young women for all of these likes, simply because they don’t notice the differences among them.

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. Published on May 28, 2019 by Harper Wave, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. Reprinted by permission.

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

I'm sure there's a meme for this:

Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.

Eek!

The Oxford English Dictionary says that the verb like comes from the Old English term lician, and the adjective comes from the Old English līch.

She doesn't mention that the ultimate etymology is an old word for corpse! "Lych gates" are common in old English churches (but almost unknown in Scotland for whatever reason) take their name from this since the dead were carried under them.



In German, they still use the word Leiche to refer to corpses.

But the truth is that like has been a part of English for more than 200 years. “We can find speakers today in their 70s, 80s and 90s around little villages in the United Kingdom, for example,” D’Arcy says with a smile, “who use like in many of the same ways that young girls today are using it.”

Not quite... or at least in my experience. The difference seems to be where it is placed.

Example:
* This is like, really bad.
* Like, this is really bad.

Those are both the teenage usage. Maybe "this is really, like, bad" as well.

The older people in those villages would be more likely to say: "This is really bad, like", and shove the word on the end, which is not what little girls do. (They'd also use "like I say", which is a bit different too.)

I still haven't come across the apocalyptic combination of terminal "like" with the Valley Girl style usage: "Like, this, like, is, like, really, like, bad, like!"

I once cracked a joke about its overuse in a church talk.

You'll be glad to hear that the vocal fry rubbish doesn't appear to have crossed the Pond yet. As far I know.

We shouldn't criticise this 15 year old girl much though. She seems to have her head screwed on and it's always a good thing when the young speak sense. A friend's sixteen year old daughter (now much older) once said to me "Facebook is where old people go to fight". Simple but true.

I wasn't criticizing her at all.

To me.

Like, it's no different from my generations excessive use of Cool or Bitchin to overly emphasize things.

But.

It is true that popular culture is designed to separate the generations by creating an artificial " generation" gap based on intangibles like Art/Music/Slang.

And that is not a good thing.

...for sure.

LOL

Sir H

[MikeMaillet]

French Canadians like to use "sti", pronounced stee, quite a bit

Mike

[Niemand]

It is true that popular culture is designed to separate the generations by creating an artificial " generation" gap based on intangibles like Art/Music/Slang.

I agree. The "Generation" thing is nonsense. I particularly hate it because it is irrelevant outside the USA. So called "Boomers" from the USA, UK, Germany, Russia and China all had very different experiences. Our so called "Boomers", for example, have experienced both rationing and socialised medicine, neither of which their American equivalents experienced. Chinese "Boomers" would have taken part in the Cultural Revolution, experienced massive famine and been forced to dress in Mao suits. (I'm the supposed Gen X lot, yet feel thoroughly alienated from much of my age group on a number of issues... we didn't even have a TV for some of my childhood and there are traditions etc which have been passed down to me from hundreds of years ago.)

Not really the same thing is it?

The "like" tag has been around in a while. I teased a couple of girls about it once nearly twenty years ago, long before the girl quoted here was even born! Many do grow out of it.

[Niemand]

French Canadians like to use "sti", pronounced stee, quite a bit

Mike

The famous Canadian "eh" among Anglophones too!

We have a lot of tags in these parts. Depending on who you're speaking to you and where they're from you can hear "...pal", "y'know", "ken" etc. In London they use "innit?" (Isn't it?) and "know wot I mean?"

Cornwall takes the prize. Heterosexual men frequently call each other "me lover". It was an interesting experience taking a taxi there once. It was only later I realised he was only picking me up, not trying to pick me up, if you see the distinction.

I know someone over here from rural Québec who practically refuses to speak French in front of people from France. Some of them are very rude to him or claim not to understand him!

[HVDC]

Amanda Montell is the author of Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language...

From the book WORDSLUT. Copyright © 2019 by Amanda Montell. ...

https://time.com/5592953/use-like-too-much/

Thanks for sharing. My daughter and I are California valley girls.

Not sure about the "Wordslut" label or "taking back the English language".

That's all nonsense if course, LOL.

Sir H

[Niemand]

That's all nonsense if course, LOL.

I remember some feminist ranting on Twitter about how only female parts were used as a term of abuse in English. I told her that that was a load of bollocks. (I also reminded her that d-head and various other "male' terms were in as much use as the C word.) She didn't like to be confronted by facts.

[MikeMaillet]

It makes me wonder how far off we are from the original language that would have been given to Adam and Eve, especially when see how quickly a language can change. Another thing I sometimes wonder about is the story of the confusion of the tongues at the Tower of Babel. Something doesn't sit right with this story and I feel that there is more to it than different peoples suddenly waking up one morning speaking various languages. What about all the written documents that would now be illegible? It reminds me of the confusion that arose when Canada went Metric. It's sad that the tool we rely on for accurate conversation be so malleable and it's kind of cool when newer words can express things in a more nuanced fashion. An evolution of the language, if you will.

I'm a sciency/artsy/nerdy kind of guy and language is more difficult for me, but I have developed a love for language ever since I've begun understanding Isaiah and how the Hebrew Prophets used language in such a beautiful and clever way.

Mike

[MikeMaillet]

French Canadians like to use "sti", pronounced stee, quite a bit

Mike

I know someone over here from rural Québec who practically refuses to speak French in front of people from France. Some of them are very rude to him or claim not to understand him!

The rural French in many parts of Quebec and Ontario has devolved and I can see how someone who grew up in the country might feel out of place when they realize that they cannot understand and be understood in the country of their mother tongue. There is a trend in Quebec to improve the level of French but they seem to have developed a harsh sounding accent that I really do not like. Every now and then I speak to some of my relatives in New Brunswick and the French there is so much better sounding. The Acadian accent makes French sound very smooth around the edges and Acadians seem better able to express sympathy and friendship in the method they use the language. I wish the schools in Quebec would refuse to hire any teacher that speaks with that harsh, throaty sound that comes out of the universities over there.

Mike

[moving2zion]

So much effort to emphasize word usage. Focus on the fact that this young sister has her head screwed on right! Congratulate the parents more for instructing her in a manner that her eyes are open!

[Niemand]

French Canadians like to use "sti", pronounced stee, quite a bit

Mike

I know someone over here from rural Québec who practically refuses to speak French in front of people from France. Some of them are very rude to him or claim not to understand him!

The rural French in many parts of Quebec and Ontario has devolved and I can see how someone who grew up in the country might feel out of place when they realize that they cannot understand and be understood in the country of their mother tongue. There is a trend in Quebec to improve the level of French but they seem to have developed a harsh sounding accent that I really do not like. Every now and then I speak to some of my relatives in New Brunswick and the French there is so much better sounding. The Acadian accent makes French sound very smooth around the edges and Acadians seem better able to express sympathy and friendship in the method they use the language. I wish the schools in Quebec would refuse to hire any teacher that speaks with that harsh, throaty sound that comes out of the universities over there.

Mike

As a general rule I find cities and industrial areas tend to have more unpleasant accents (though not always unclearer). I wouldn't be surprised if Montréal had a nastier sounding French accent than the countryside in New Brunswick.

I do know that Paris is developing some very ugly forms of French in recent years. That would be in line with Berlin, London etc which are all developing ugly multicultural accents. (I find the London one weird since it's partly from Jamaican and African accents that don't sound nearly as bad.)

So much effort to emphasize word usage. Focus on the fact that this young sister has her head screwed on right! Congratulate the parents more for instructing her in a manner that her eyes are open!

Just one post! I was actually praising her wisdom.