Meet Gerrit Gong...former CFR member, prolific pro globalist/communist writer...

[Niemand]

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

One would expect it to be BYU. Odd that they go to the "other place".

[tmac]

Considering what is actually going on, maybe it’s not so odd. But over time the U and BYU have probably kind of evened out.

[Niemand]

Considering what is actually going on, maybe it’s not so odd. But over time the U and BYU have probably kind of evened out.

I find it odd from the POV that BYU is church run and that I'd expect them to groom and filter these folk from within their own ranks. UoU isn't so closely tied.

Gong isn't old blood but he is married into it and that's all that counts.

[The Red Pill]

It is the same Church you and I grew up in. It's Jesus Christ's Church. Some men have defiled it and some in the past have made it great. Regardless it is still Christ's Church. You know what you know to be true, stick with it. The Priesthood is still there and the authority to to preform ordinances is still there. Don't jump ship as others have done because of misdeeds of some men in leadership positions. Christ is coming again soon. It is known that the first thing He'll do is clean house in his Church.

Is it Christ's church when they teach doctrines that directly contradict Christ's teachings?

Hi Watchman. The power of the Holy Spirit. When a man speaks by that power i will follow him. I don't feel the manifestations when any of the current leaders speak. That doesn't mean that Christ's Church doesn't exist any longer.It means the current leadership is failling. I have spoken out very much against the jab poison right from the beginning and let it be known to my fellow church members. I know the current leadership are trying to make Christ's Church a friend of the world which is an enemy of God. I will not follow their council. I have a testimony of the things that I have been taught in my 27 years as I am a 68 year old convert. I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.

A sincere suggestion that worked for me. Separate the gospel from the corporate church. Joseph Smith restored the gospel of Jesus Christ, in it's purity to the earth. Upon closer examination, Brigham did many things contrary to that gospel and introduced many apostate doctrines...so this has been going on a long time.

Think gospel...not church.

I think you believe that most here have thrown the baby out with the bathwater...they haven't.

The Book of Mormon is true
The 1835, 1844 Doctrine and Covenants are true
What Joseph Smith restored is true

Just like the leader of a country can really screw things up (like Biden)...it doesn't mean what the founding fathers gave us is not true. The same applies to ANY organization...including the church.

Isaiah describes that all this is part of the plan. Don't forget, he used language like "drunkards of Ephraim" and "dumb dogs" to describe church leadership in the last days.

[tmac]

Considering what is actually going on, maybe it’s not so odd. But over time the U and BYU have probably kind of evened out.

I find it odd from the POV that BYU is church run and that I'd expect them to groom and filter these folk from within their own ranks. UoU isn't so closely tied.

And that’s how it provides plenty of room for cover and subterfuge. As it turns out, everything seems odd. Almost nothing is as it seems.

[Reluctant Watchman]

It is the same Church you and I grew up in. It's Jesus Christ's Church. Some men have defiled it and some in the past have made it great. Regardless it is still Christ's Church. You know what you know to be true, stick with it. The Priesthood is still there and the authority to to preform ordinances is still there. Don't jump ship as others have done because of misdeeds of some men in leadership positions. Christ is coming again soon. It is known that the first thing He'll do is clean house in his Church.

Is it Christ's church when they teach doctrines that directly contradict Christ's teachings?

Hi Watchman. The power of the Holy Spirit. When a man speaks by that power i will follow him. I don't feel the manifestations when any of the current leaders speak. That doesn't mean that Christ's Church doesn't exist any longer.It means the current leadership is failling. I have spoken out very much against the jab poison right from the beginning and let it be known to my fellow church members. I know the current leadership are trying to make Christ's Church a friend of the world which is an enemy of God. I will not follow their council. I have a testimony of the things that I have been taught in my 27 years as I am a 68 year old convert. I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.

I’m glad that things are working out for you. For me, things go back much further than the hokey-pokey from the FP. When I talk about false teachings, I go all the way back to Brigham. And we’re not talking about small things, but foundational things. Things that Christ called some of the most prideful and gross sins and wickedness. For most of my life I passed these off and put them on a shelf. There are quite a few dealbreakers for me. And guess what, Christ has told me that it’s ok for me to leave the church. I have a beautiful foundation that I’m building upon that doesn’t include the twisted doctrines of the church.

“I know”, is a phrase I see differently these days. I thought “I knew” a lot of things because I didn’t have a lot to compare to, I was told to stay in my little box.

[tmac]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

The top two qualifications for advancement is successful/moneyed and educated. The last qualification is being a yes man and the ability to parrot the corporate mantra in everything you do.

I find it interesting is that the top two qualifications are the two categories consistently condemned in the scriptures: the learned and the rich. Whatever happened to the impoverished uneducated farm boys?

Birds of a feather flock together. Instead of humble fisherman, farmers, ranchers and tradesmen, aspiring white collar professionals will naturally choose more of their own kind — affluent, aristocratic, well-educated and connected white collar professionals. That is who runs the Church today, from top to bottom, with few exceptions.

You may occasionally see an exception to the rule among bishoprics, stale presidencies and high councils (depending on location), but you’ll virtually never see much variation among mission presidents, area authority seventies, and on up the ladder. The top brass all fits the mold.

Although it is purportedly Christ’s Church, I would genuinely like to know where He fits in the whole organizational equation today.

[Robin Hood]

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

One would expect it to be BYU. Odd that they go to the "other place".

BYU is the church college, but apparently the University of Utah is the school of the prophets.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.

Here’s a quick recap of where I’m at. Like I said, it goes way deeper than the whacky jab. I do believe in a time when pure doctrine will be taught, but I fully believe that will involve new bottles for new wine. In order for me to “come back”, they’d have to essentially change nearly every precept taught in the church. Here’s the short list:

• Joseph wasn’t a polygamist, how big of a deal was that? Sexual abuse was normalized (exalted really) under the guise of religious keys and authority. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/polygamy-adultery

• With the temple experience, while I believe much remained from Joseph, it was changed just enough to make parts of it quite evil and shifted the entire focus. When I read the Nemenhah Record, I’ll never look at the temple experience in the LDS church as anything but fallen. It breaks my heart actually.

• The “cannot lead astray” precept is anti-Christian. It is of the devil. It has also been taught since Brigham and they are doubling down on it today. I published this essay this past week: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye (BTW, this single precept has made lesser gods of men, breaking the first commandment. If this was the only precept I had issue with, I’d still leave the church. It’s that bad.) Here’s a deeper dive into this false ideology: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets

• The priesthood has become a tool of power for influence over others. The scriptures, particularly the Nemenhah Records, are extremely clear about the intent and purpose of the priesthood. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/nemenhah-records

• We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

• The “sustain” doctrine in the church is horrid. God would never, every (IMO), require you to obey a man in order to make covenants with Him. (Most members don’t realize that to sustain in the church really means you make a covenant to follow the arm of flesh. I’ve heard apostles teach this, that to “sustain” you are covenanting to obey them.)

• The tithes of the church hurt the poor. We’ve become blinded to the scriptures and our own church history. “Fine sanctuaries” have been built on the backs of the poor. I wrote an entire essay on this… so I won’t elaborate much. This one is really bad, we’ve completely changed the meaning from what Joseph and the scriptures teach. One of the purest forms of religion is caring for the poor, and the church, under the pretense of “sacrifice brings blessings” has convinced the poor to give an inappropriate sacrifice. All the while relieving the rich from their obligation to help the poor. We give lip service to the Law of Consecration. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/tithe-the-poor

• In our modern day, the church has aligned itself with Babylon and all of her trappings. (All number of alphabet agencies: UN, NWO, UNICEF, Agenda 2030, the Pope, CFR, WEF, CDC, CIA, FBI, MK Ultra, etc.) When you begin to see the connections and actions of the church, you realize those at the top are joined at the hip.

• The best way I can explain most of this is that some leaders speak with forked tongues. The teach conflicting doctrines. This happens ALL the time btw.

• I know most members shy away from SRA, and we’ve discussed this on the forum extensively, but something isn’t right in the church. There are proven LDS ties to MK Ultra. I think the Pace Memorandum was the the tip of the iceberg. https://doctrinalessays.com/mormon-conspiracy/

[Niemand]

I know J. Golden Kimball was "of the blood", but I wish we had more people like him in the leadership. At least he was a character.

[marc]

We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

Can you provide the source? I'd like to watch the video or read the transcript if it's available, please.

[Fight for the right]

I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.

Here’s a quick recap of where I’m at. Like I said, it goes way deeper than the whacky jab. I do believe in a time when pure doctrine will be taught, but I fully believe that to involve new bottles for new wine. In order for me to “come back”, they’d have to essentially change nearly every precept taught in the church. Here’s the short list:

• Joseph wasn’t a polygamist, how big of a deal was that? Sexual abuse was normalized (exalted really) under the guise of religious keys and authority. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/polygamy-adultery

• With the temple experience, while I believe much remained from Joseph, it was changed just enough to make parts of it quite evil and shifted the entire focus. When I read the Nemenhah Record, I’ll never look at the temple experience in the LDS church as anything but fallen. It breaks my heart actually.

• The “cannot lead astray” precept is anti-Christian. It is of the devil. It has also been taught since Brigham and they are doubling down on it today. I published this essay this past week: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye (BTW, this single precept has made lesser gods of men, breaking the first commandment. If this was the only precept I had issue with, I’d still leave the church. It’s that bad.) Here’s a deeper dive into this false ideology: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets

• The priesthood has become a tool of power for influence over others. The scriptures, particularly the Nemenhah Records, are extremely clear about the intent and purpose of the priesthood. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/nemenhah-records

• We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

• The “sustain” doctrine in the church is horrid. God would never, every (IMO), require you to obey a man in order to make covenants with Him. (Most members don’t realize that to sustain in the church really means you make a covenant to follow the arm of flesh. I’ve heard apostles teach this, that to “sustain” you are covenanting to obey them.)

• The tithes of the church hurt the poor. We’ve become blinded to the scriptures and our own church history. “Fine sanctuaries” have been built on the backs of the poor. I wrote an entire essay on this… so I won’t elaborate much. This one is really bad, we’ve completely changed the meaning from what Joseph and the scriptures teach. One of the purest forms of religion is caring for the poor, and the church, under the pretense of “sacrifice brings blessings” has convinced the poor to give an inappropriate sacrifice. All the while relieving the rich from their obligation to help the poor. We give lip service to the Law of Consecration. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/tithe-the-poor

• In our modern day, the church has aligned itself with Babylon and all of her trappings. (All number of alphabet agencies: UN, NWO, UNICEF, Agenda 2030, the Pope, CFR, WEF, CDC, CIA, FBI, MK Ultra, etc.) When you begin to see the connections and actions of the church, you realize those at the top are joined at the hip.

• The best way I can explain most of this is that some leaders speak with forked tongues. The teach conflicting doctrines. This happens ALL the time btw.

• I know most members shy away from SRA, and we’ve discussed this on the forum extensively, but something isn’t right in the church. There are proven LDS ties to MK Ultra. I think the Pace Memorandum was the the tip of the iceberg. https://doctrinalessays.com/mormon-conspiracy/

I live in Canada. My father being a second world war vet fought for the freedom that we had in this blessed country. He had great leadership in the air force and great leadership in Ottawa where our current prime minister resides. Trudeau is destroying Canada in many ways. He is a communist. He's turning this country inside out and upside down. I will not follow anything he says. I still consider myself Canadian and will not leave because of him. What he has done and continues to do really makes me furious. I will continue in my life to live the way I have valuing the freedoms i have enjoyed and the principles i have been taught. I will not leave Christ's Church because man has in some ways corrupted it. I will remain a part of it and do what I can to help my brothers and sisters that are struggling in many ways.

[JK4Woods]

I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.

Here’s a quick recap of where I’m at. Like I said, it goes way deeper than the whacky jab. I do believe in a time when pure doctrine will be taught, but I fully believe that to involve new bottles for new wine. In order for me to “come back”, they’d have to essentially change nearly every precept taught in the church. Here’s the short list:

• Joseph wasn’t a polygamist, how big of a deal was that? Sexual abuse was normalized (exalted really) under the guise of religious keys and authority. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/polygamy-adultery

• With the temple experience, while I believe much remained from Joseph, it was changed just enough to make parts of it quite evil and shifted the entire focus. When I read the Nemenhah Record, I’ll never look at the temple experience in the LDS church as anything but fallen. It breaks my heart actually.

• The “cannot lead astray” precept is anti-Christian. It is of the devil. It has also been taught since Brigham and they are doubling down on it today. I published this essay this past week: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye (BTW, this single precept has made lesser gods of men, breaking the first commandment. If this was the only precept I had issue with, I’d still leave the church. It’s that bad.) Here’s a deeper dive into this false ideology: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/infal ... f-prophets

• The priesthood has become a tool of power for influence over others. The scriptures, particularly the Nemenhah Records, are extremely clear about the intent and purpose of the priesthood. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/nemenhah-records

• We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

• The “sustain” doctrine in the church is horrid. God would never, every (IMO), require you to obey a man in order to make covenants with Him. (Most members don’t realize that to sustain in the church really means you make a covenant to follow the arm of flesh. I’ve heard apostles teach this, that to “sustain” you are covenanting to obey them.)

• The tithes of the church hurt the poor. We’ve become blinded to the scriptures and our own church history. “Fine sanctuaries” have been built on the backs of the poor. I wrote an entire essay on this… so I won’t elaborate much. This one is really bad, we’ve completely changed the meaning from what Joseph and the scriptures teach. One of the purest forms of religion is caring for the poor, and the church, under the pretense of “sacrifice brings blessings” has convinced the poor to give an inappropriate sacrifice. All the while relieving the rich from their obligation to help the poor. We give lip service to the Law of Consecration. https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/tithe-the-poor

• In our modern day, the church has aligned itself with Babylon and all of her trappings. (All number of alphabet agencies: UN, NWO, UNICEF, Agenda 2030, the Pope, CFR, WEF, CDC, CIA, FBI, MK Ultra, etc.) When you begin to see the connections and actions of the church, you realize those at the top are joined at the hip.

• The best way I can explain most of this is that some leaders speak with forked tongues. The teach conflicting doctrines. This happens ALL the time btw.

• I know most members shy away from SRA, and we’ve discussed this on the forum extensively, but something isn’t right in the church. There are proven LDS ties to MK Ultra. I think the Pace Memorandum was the the tip of the iceberg. https://doctrinalessays.com/mormon-conspiracy/

And yet… even in light of all the above, why do I feel impressed to “stay in the boat” …??

Not in blind support of all the leadership up in HQ, but rather, stay with open eyes walking in my personal faith of the Savior and BoM.

I don’t give two tugs on a lambs tail about corrupt Stake Presidents (I’ve had one) and up the chain of command all the way to the elderly, cloistered, managed top tier.

I can say no, to disharmonious requests, demands, directions and policies. So why am I still attending sacrament service and other meetings on Sundays?

Just because it helps me not loosen my grip on the iron rod, even when others are, right next to me blind, wandering or willfully turning away.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I live in Canada. My father being a second world war vet fought for the freedom that we had in this blessed country. He had great leadership in the air force and great leadership in Ottawa where our current prime minister resides. Trudeau is destroying Canada in many ways. He is a communist. He's turning this country inside out and upside down. I will not follow anything he says. I still consider myself Canadian and will not leave because of him. What he has done and continues to do really makes me furious. I will continue in my life to live the way I have valuing the freedoms i have enjoyed and the principles i have been taught. I will not leave Christ's Church because man has in some ways corrupted it. I will remain a part of it and do what I can to help my brothers and sisters that are struggling in many ways.

The distinction I'm trying to make here is that in order for me to follow the teachings of Christ, I can't be a member of the church. I would also strongly encourage you to study the BoM for what constitutes "the church of the Lamb." There are many who are part of Christ's Church who are not LDS. That's one of the great deceptions of the LDS church. It is only His church when they follow His doctrine.

[Reluctant Watchman]

And yet… even in light of all the above, why do I feel impressed to “stay in the boat” …??

Not in blind support of all the leadership up in HQ, but rather, stay with open eyes walking in my personal faith of the Savior and BoM.

I don’t give two tugs on a lambs tail about corrupt Stake Presidents (I’ve had one) and up the chain of command all the way to the elderly, cloistered, managed top tier.

I can say no, to disharmonious requests, demands, directions and policies. So why am I still attending sacrament service and other meetings on Sundays?

Just because it helps me not loosen my grip on the iron rod, even when others are, right next to me blind, wandering or willfully turning away.

I don't know, that's between you and God. I'm not saying you have a low BS tolerance, but mine level of willingness to "give them the benefit of the doubt" has nearly disappeared. They are not acting in ignorance.

As my son once said, we each of different missions and people that we can connect with. There are some people who have left the faith that will never connect with a TBM. There are members who are questioning the fruits of the church and may reach out to you. My path is not to continue my associations with the church. I have already been cast out of any leadership position and called to repentance on menial things, hell, what happens when they read my essays?

I would also ask you, "What is the iron rod?" It is God's word to you individually. While His word is contained in scripture, men have equated their words with His words, especially in the LDS church. That couldn't be further from the truth. They are not always synonymous. Hence the laundry listed I posted earlier. Truth, ratified by the Holy Ghost, is the iron rod. That is it, period.

[HVDC]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

The top two qualifications for advancement is successful/moneyed and educated. The last qualification is being a yes man and the ability to parrot the corporate mantra in everything you do.

I find it interesting is that the top two qualifications are the two categories consistently condemned in the scriptures: the learned and the rich. Whatever happened to the impoverished uneducated farm boys?

Birds of a feather flock together. Instead of humble fisherman, farmers, ranchers and tradesmen, aspiring white collar professionals will naturally choose more of their own kind — affluent, aristocratic, well-educated and connected white collar professionals. That is who runs the Church today, from top to bottom, with few exceptions.

You may occasionally see an exception to the rule among bishoprics, stale presidencies and high councils (depending on location), but you’ll virtually never see much variation among mission presidents, area authority seventies, and on up the ladder. The top brass all fits the mold.

Although it is purportedly Christ’s Church, I would genuinely like to know where He fits in the whole organizational equation today.

What if Jesus applied for a job at your church?
JUNE 19, 2013 BY DAVID MURROW

[CHURCH OFFICE SETTING. TWO MEN SEATED ACROSS A DESK FROM ONE ANOTHER.]

INTERVIEWER: Your name, sir?

JESUS: Jesus.

INTERVIEWER: Your full name?

...

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/ ... .Suit_.jpg

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/afewgrown ... ur-church/

For some reason, I couldn't get the image to post.

Sir H

[Reluctant Watchman]

We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

Can you provide the source? I'd like to watch the video or read the transcript if it's available, please.

Here you go:

The elimination of the footnotes was not inadvertent. The LDS Church no longer teaches that it is possible for a faithful Latter-day Saint to receive the Second Comforter. As recently as June 13, 2015, LDS assistant historian Richard Turley and church apostle Dallin Oaks traveled to Boise, Idaho, and while there denounced the idea of church members having spiritual experiences that go “entirely against all the rules of order that we have talked about.” (Recording at 59 minutes.) Turley, quoting President Spencer W. Kimball, warned that this kind of experience “may not come from God. I am sure that there may be many spectacular things performed because the devil is very responsive.” (Id.)

Dealing directly with the Second Comforter, Turley denounced the claim, “only those who see the face of Jesus Christ in mortality will receive Celestial Glory.” (Id.)

Elder Oaks added: “the suggestions that this must happen in mortality is a familiar tactic of the adversary.” (Recording at 1 hr. 30 seconds.)

If these statements are not enough, a talk at FAIR was covered by both the Church News and LDS Meridian Magazine. The Church News headlined their article “Speaker identifies ‘spiritual threat‘.” In that article, it reports it is spiritually threatening to have “an inordinate interest in the Second Comforter.” LDS Meridian Magazine reprinted the talk. The talk states it is wrong to have, “Inordinate interest in the Second Comforter or Second Anointing, complaints that the church does not teach or emphasize them enough, and belief that books or teachings by individuals who are not church leaders are the best way to obtain them.”

The last time the Second Comforter was mentioned in general conference was in the early 1970’s. It is not covered in Priesthood, Relief Society or Gospel Doctrine lesson manuals of the church. It is not on the correlation committee’s approved list of topics suitable for discussion.

BTW, I've read this in more than one place, but this link to Denver's website was the first that I could find.
https://denversnuffer.com/tag/second-comforter/

[HereWeGo]

stale presidencies and high councils .

Your mis-typed word turned out to be a good assessment.

[Reluctant Watchman]

stale presidencies and high councils .

Your mis-typed word turned out to be a good assessment.

[tmac]

stale presidencies and high councils .

Your mis-typed word turned out to be a good assessment.

Actually, I thought so too, so I didn’t fix it.

[HereWeGo]

We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

Can you provide the source? I'd like to watch the video or read the transcript if it's available, please.

Elder Oaks, Boise Rescue Mission, 2015
Elder Turley: “Another claim is that the church is not teaching what is necessary for exaltation, for example, some say that only those who see the face of Jesus Christ in mortality will receive Celestial Glory”
Dallin H. Oaks:
“Of course, all of the righteous desire to see the face of our Savior, but the suggestions that this must happen in mortality is a familiar tactic of the adversary."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0js6xWv6bc

[Sarah]

We discourage members from receiving the Second Comforter (Oaks taught this in a Meridian stake leadership meeting, that we don’t seek after such things)

Can you provide the source? I'd like to watch the video or read the transcript if it's available, please.

Elder Oaks, Boise Rescue Mission, 2015
Elder Turley: “Another claim is that the church is not teaching what is necessary for exaltation, for example, some say that only those who see the face of Jesus Christ in mortality will receive Celestial Glory”
Dallin H. Oaks:
“Of course, all of the righteous desire to see the face of our Savior, but the suggestions that this must happen in mortality is a familiar tactic of the adversary."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0js6xWv6bc

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

[Sarah]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

I think we should teach our children what is in the scriptures, and give them all the wisdom we have to give, including what led to our own testimonies of different things, but I don't think we should use their spiritual manifestations or experiences as a measuring stick for righteousness or worthiness of Celestial glory. We should focus on obeying the commandments, having charity, being humble, and praying always, and thinking on the Savior, giving yourself lots of quiet time to ponder, and it will happen as the Lord says, in his own time and way.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Elder Oaks is right. I've seen it play out that way right here on this forum. Oaks isn't saying that people shouldn't seek to see the face of Christ, but that Satan and those under his influence use that argument to lure people into doing things that allow them to receive false manifestations from the dark side.

How important is it that we teach our children to seek the face of Christ while in this life? And, how often is this taught in the LDS church?

I think we should teach our children what is in the scriptures, and give them all the wisdom we have to give, including what led to our own testimonies of different things, but I don't think we should use their spiritual manifestations or experiences as a measuring stick for righteousness or worthiness of Celestial glory. We should focus on obeying the commandments, having charity, being humble, and praying always, and thinking on the Savior, giving yourself lots of quiet time to ponder, and it will happen as the Lord says, in his own time and way.

So, according to you, no, we shouldn't teach them to seek the face of the Savior while in this life. It is taught in the scriptures btw. Extensively actually.