Meet Gerrit Gong...former CFR member, prolific pro globalist/communist writer...

[endlessQuestions]

Speaking of Gerrit Gong, I was just doing some more research for the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread, and look what I found:

Richard Lindsay is a person who comes up often in Beverly's Volumes. Who is Richard Lindsay?

Richard P. Lindsay served as a General Authority of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Second Quorum of the Seventy from April 1, 1989, to October 1, 1994. After his release he represented the Church on anti-pornography initiatives. In 1995 he was named the national education director of the Religious Alliance Against Pornography. In 1996 he was honored by the American Council on Alcohol Problems for his work to fight alcohol abuse. He also served in the Church as managing director of Public Affairs, bishop, and stake president.

Lindsay worked for the State of Utah, serving as Utah State Commissioner of Finance, with the Utah Juvenile Court System, as director of the Utah Council on Criminal Justice Administration, and as the executive director of the Utah State Employees Association, administrator of the Utah Juvenile Court System and as director of the Utah Council on Criminal Justice Administration. In 1969 he became director of Utah State Department of Social Services. He served as a Democratic Utah State Senator in 1965 and in the Utah House of Representatives from 1972 to 1976. He was also director of the University of Utah Bureau of Community Development and an adjunct professor at Brigham Young University.

Lindsay was born on March 18, 1926, in Salt Lake City, Utah. His father died when he was five years old and his mother worked in nursing to provide for her family. At the age of 18, he joined the US Navy but World War II ended before he was sent into combat. He then served as a full-time missionary from 1946 to 1949 in Switzerland and Austria. He earned a bachelor’s degree in political science from the University of Denver and his master’s degree in political science and his PhD degree in political science/management from the University of Utah.

Lindsay and his wife, Marian, were the parents of six children and were named Utah’s Parents of the Year in 2001. Their son Bruce was a lead news anchor with KSL TV and mission president in the Australia Perth Mission. Their daughter Susan married Elder Gerrit W. Gong, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Lindsay died on June 4, 2010.

[Light Seeker]

Courtesy of Ben McClintock at the Tree of Liberty Society...comes the following information:

Gerrit W. Gong was a former CFR member and prolific writer of pro globalist/communist books.

It appears that much of this information has been scrubbed from the internet. The church has done their own "sheep dipping" of Gong...in an obvious effort to conceal his radical beliefs of a one world government overseen by the UN...but McClintock brings receipts.
Screenshot_20230124_095755_Brave.jpg

This screenshot shows a list of pro globalist/communist books that Gong has written. Note how he brags about a UN world government in "Standard of Civilization"
Screenshot_20230123_133814_Brave.jpg

Connect the dots here:
1. RMN urging clot-shot
2. RMN "be a good global citizen"
3. Rasband UN 17 SDG lapel pin
4. Holland saying "environmental desecration" is a huge problem.
5. Christopherson's agenda 2030 talk in conference
6. Renlund urging shot in conference
7. Echtdorf's Biden donation
8. Bednar and 2nd Ten Commandments ceremony
9. Gong CFR globalist/communist background
10. RMN Skull & Bones
11. FULL support of gay marriage act

These guys are FULLY ON BOARD the UN's Agenda 2030 and the 17 SDG's

This is NOT the church I grew up in.

Or maybe it was.

The more you know...

Sir H

I tend to agree with Sir H. I read an account where Ezra Taft Benson as President was visited by thugs (supposedly church security) and beaten up in his home. To silence his open truths about conspiracy, and communism.

Getting your @#$ kicked at 90+ years old, takes a bit to recover from. He soon felt sickly and then went virtually silent the remainder of his term as President.

Even if it wasn’t church security thugs sent by an other faction, each apostles’ body guards do form a kinship and loyalty to he whom one serves.

Being a bodyguard, one always has a network of “interesting people” for other off-the-record activities.

Same thing happened to Harry Reid, former Senator from Nevada, and liberal Democratic LDS member.

In the waning days of his final term, he was beaten up in his home, and came away bloodied and bruised and lost sight in one eye. He came back to DC and soon thereafter announced his retirement from the Senate, and then died after retiring from pancreatic cancer.

Senator Reid was very Liberal, and never received anything but support from the boys up at 50 East North Temple…

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[Light Seeker]

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[Dusty Wanderer]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

They are essentially recommending themselves as they signal to likeminded others their availability to be an effective tool through accrued credentials, business (church included) and/or public sector acceptance and advancement, and most importantly, establishing connections into the "right" circles or in some cases simply being connected by birth.

This process is like a funnel and I believe much of it is on autopilot through years of conditioning and now having an established feedback loop of likeminded individuals in the "right" places to ensure an efficient perpetuation of the system.

In direct response to your question, I think we'd be surprised by how many of these recommendations come from outside the Church.

[tmac]

You mean Jesus Christ isn't personally directing all such "callings," etc.? I'm shocked. Truly shocked.

[The Red Pill]

You mean Jesus Christ isn't personally directing all such "callings," etc.? I'm shocked. Truly shocked.

[LDS Physician]

I am not the smartest person when it comes to world affairs and politics and have only begun learning things since the covid debacle began. So at the risk of sounding stupid, can someone explain what the council on foreign relations is and why it would be considered a bad thing for someone to be a member of it? And are his books pro globalism/communism, or is it possible they are just informational? Do we know his books expressed a clear desire for globalism and communism?
I ask these questions because when I share this with my mother-in-law, these are the questions I know she will ask or suggest, and I won't know how to answer. She is super conservative, but also super defensive of the church leaders and tries her best to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think that's a good quality, but am also trying to learn and understand more so I'm not ignorant.

You could start with less-nuanced and geopolitical evidence such as:

1) The church using $2 billion in tithing funds to build a mall in SLC
2) The church using $148 million in tithing funds to buy a hotel/resort in Maui
3) The church inviting a gay men's choir to sing on temple grounds in Washington DC
4) The church publicly voicing support of the legalization of homosexuals in the promised land
5) The church sending a letter to every member declaring the vaccines to be "safe and effective" and "the only way" we'll get out of this pandemic and to trust our government leaders.
6) The church writing a $20 million tithing check to the NAACP. The NAACP for heaven's sakes!
7) The church disavowing the BoM saying that it really doesn't say that the Lord changed the color of the Lamanite skin

I could go on and on ...

[marc]

Suddenly I miss Col Flagg.

[iWriteStuff]

Who in the heck are you that you should tell me what to do or say.

It's ok, you can use "hell", it passes the cuss filter.

It made me LOL.

You’d be amazed what passes the cuss filter. Darn thing talks like a wounded pirate most days.

[Lizzy60]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

They are essentially recommending themselves as they signal to likeminded others their availability to be an effective tool through accrued credentials, business (church included) and/or public sector acceptance and advancement, and most importantly, establishing connections into the "right" circles or in some cases simply being connected by birth.

This process is like a funnel and I believe much of it is on autopilot through years of conditioning and now having an established feedback loop of likeminded individuals in the "right" places to ensure an efficient perpetuation of the system.

In direct response to your question, I think we'd be surprised by how many of these recommendations come from outside the Church.

Elder Brent Nielsen of the Presidency of the Seventy did an interview a year ago, and he stated that when the Seventies visit an area they always take time to visit personally with men there that are possibilities for filling upcoming 70s positions. He would probably say they are seeking revelation, but it seems they are looking for like-minded replacements.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Courtesy of Ben McClintock at the Tree of Liberty Society...comes the following information:

Gerrit W. Gong was a former CFR member and prolific writer of pro globalist/communist books.

It appears that much of this information has been scrubbed from the internet. The church has done their own "sheep dipping" of Gong...in an obvious effort to conceal his radical beliefs of a one world government overseen by the UN...but McClintock brings receipts.
Screenshot_20230124_095755_Brave.jpg

This screenshot shows a list of pro globalist/communist books that Gong has written. Note how he brags about a UN world government in "Standard of Civilization"
Screenshot_20230123_133814_Brave.jpg

Connect the dots here:
1. RMN urging clot-shot
2. RMN "be a good global citizen"
3. Rasband UN 17 SDG lapel pin
4. Holland saying "environmental desecration" is a huge problem.
5. Christopherson's agenda 2030 talk in conference
6. Renlund urging shot in conference
7. Echtdorf's Biden donation
8. Bednar and 2nd Ten Commandments ceremony
9. Gong CFR globalist/communist background
10. RMN Skull & Bones
11. FULL support of gay marriage act

These guys are FULLY ON BOARD the UN's Agenda 2030 and the 17 SDG's

This is NOT the church I grew up in.

Yeah it is. It is governed by continuing revelation and as a higher understanding is obtained, it is incumbent on the members themselves to get that higher understanding for themselves, or risk turning into a Mormon version of the Wahhabist sect of Islam.

What continuing revelation ???
Any examples?

[SantaFe]

Red Pill beat me to this topic. Saved me the trouble of putting all the names together with their ties to secret combos, agendas, etc. I'm sure this list will grow with time.

D&C 123:13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—
14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.
15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

[Dusty Wanderer]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

They are essentially recommending themselves as they signal to likeminded others their availability to be an effective tool through accrued credentials, business (church included) and/or public sector acceptance and advancement, and most importantly, establishing connections into the "right" circles or in some cases simply being connected by birth.

This process is like a funnel and I believe much of it is on autopilot through years of conditioning and now having an established feedback loop of likeminded individuals in the "right" places to ensure an efficient perpetuation of the system.

In direct response to your question, I think we'd be surprised by how many of these recommendations come from outside the Church.

Elder Brent Nielsen of the Presidency of the Seventy did an interview a year ago, and he stated that when the Seventies visit an area they always take time to visit personally with men there that are possibilities for filling upcoming 70s positions. He would probably say they are seeking revelation, but it seems they are looking for like-minded replacements.

Yup.

A stake presidency re-organization goes very much the same way. Typically today, the area authority will meet with the high counselors and ask for recommendations/names for him to follow-up on. While on one hand, they may very well be seeking inspiration, on the other, they are choosing from candidates that were generally selected based upon a set of qualifications that were also used to select them, or in some cases, preclude others. Feedback loop.

(As an aside, the last stake presidency re-org I was privy on, the high counselors were all instructed by the outgoing president to make sure they were "clean-shaven, hair groomed according to missionary standards and suits pressed" before meeting with the visiting authority. I know on its face, this is benign, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of something my boss at work would tell me when their bosses (the board of directors) would visit. Didn't want to risk anything negatively reflecting on their professional aspirations.)

[endlessQuestions]

Red Pill beat me to this topic. Saved me the trouble of putting all the names together with their ties to secret combos, agendas, etc. I'm sure this list will grow with time.

D&C 123:13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—
14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.
15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

[marc]

A Facebook friend of mine has a lot of loss and heartache because of this:

[The Red Pill]

Red Pill beat me to this topic. Saved me the trouble of putting all the names together with their ties to secret combos, agendas, etc. I'm sure this list will grow with time.

D&C 123:13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—
14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.
15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

I don't think that stating documented facts on someone is "attacking" them. If it is true...it's true...even if unpleasant for some to deal with.

How else are we to discern the wheat from the tares?

With the red-chair club, I feel it essential to NOT lump all individuals (organization) in with the actions of one (individual). Unfortunately, a pattern has developed based on the actions of MANY in Q15...but if there are exceptions, we shouldn't lump them in with the others.

I like what SantaFe suggested. This way we identify the problem children specifically. Similar to how a detective would whiteboard suspects in a crime investigation.

[endlessQuestions]

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

I don't think that stating documented facts on someone is "attacking" them. If it is true...it's true...even if unpleasant for some to deal with.

How else are we to discern the wheat from the tares?

With the red-chair club, I feel it essential to NOT lump all individuals (organization) in with the actions of one (individual). Unfortunately, a pattern has developed based on the actions of MANY in Q15...but if there are exceptions, we shouldn't lump them in with the others.

I like what SantaFe suggested. This way we identify the problem children specifically. Similar to how a detective would whiteboard suspects in a crime investigation.

Funny you should mention the tares.

I was talking to someone I consider very wise tonight, and they taught me things about tares I never knew.

Like it's poisonous.

And causes a fungal infection that has symptoms that look an awful lot like the things Isaiah and other prophets talk about.

Very, very interesting.

I'm not tied to any particular way forward.

I'd love to see this all get documented in an easy to access, easy to understand format.

[endlessQuestions]

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

I don't think that stating documented facts on someone is "attacking" them. If it is true...it's true...even if unpleasant for some to deal with.

How else are we to discern the wheat from the tares?

With the red-chair club, I feel it essential to NOT lump all individuals (organization) in with the actions of one (individual). Unfortunately, a pattern has developed based on the actions of MANY in Q15...but if there are exceptions, we shouldn't lump them in with the others.

I like what SantaFe suggested. This way we identify the problem children specifically. Similar to how a detective would whiteboard suspects in a crime investigation.

Funny you should mention the tares.

I was talking to someone I consider very wise tonight, and they taught me things about tares I never knew.

Like it's poisonous.

And causes a fungal infection that has symptoms that look an awful lot like the things Isaiah and other prophets talk about.

Very, very interesting.

I'm not tied to any particular way forward.

I'd love to see this all get documented in an easy to access, easy to understand format.

One more thing about the wheat and tares, and I'll stop, because I think it's important to understand that we're not to uproot ourselves try to go to a different field:

"When the wheat begins to sprout, the farmer and his servants discover darnel growing right alongside it. The servants are sur­prised: “Lord, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the darnel-weeds it contains come from?” My enemy did this, the farmer explains. In accord with agricultural practice, the servants ask if they should pull up the darnel. The farmer’s answer sur­pris­es: don’t touch the weeds until harvest time. As Robert Capon points out, the farmer’s response violates good crop-raising sense:

Farmers and gardeners, of course, may raise an eyebrow at the story’s strictly agricultural aspects. The practice of not pulling out weeds until harvest time is no way to run a farm. All that such neglect insures is two undesirable results. First, it contributes to the choking out of the good plants that Jesus deplored in the Sower; second, it guarantees a bumper crop of unwanted weed seeds to plague the next season’s planting. (Kingdom, Grace, Judgment, p. 83)

Jesus’ audience would have known this and would likely have found the farmer’s decision baffling. Clearly the man doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s going to run the estate into the ground. “The farmer, though,” remarks Capon, “seems to have in mind some grander strat­egy—one that involves not fighting a minor battle against transitory inconveniences but winning an entire war, once and for all, against his enemy” (p. 86). But what does he hope to achieve by this unorthodox strategy?

In the story, and contrary to expectations, the grain of the parable is not threat­ened by the darnel. “It is not danger to the crop’s growth but inconvenience to the farmer and his servants that lies at the heart of the agricultural-theological dilemma in the parable” (p. 86). In the farmer’s judgment, pulling up the darnel, which can be easily mistaken as wheat, poses the greatest threat to the crop. He will not lose a single stalk; he will not chance losing even one son of the Kingdom! Weed the weeds now, and healthy wheat will be inevitably uprooted in the process."

[Jason]

It is the same Church you and I grew up in. It's Jesus Christ's Church. Some men have defiled it and some in the past have made it great. Regardless it is still Christ's Church. You know what you know to be true, stick with it. The Priesthood is still there and the authority to to preform ordinances is still there. Don't jump ship as others have done because of misdeeds of some men in leadership positions. Christ is coming again soon. It is known that the first thing He'll do is clean house in his Church.

Everyone has to make their choices...for better or worse...

If they choose to jump...they jump...only thing you can control is whether or not you jump...

Some forget that Christ Himself called Judas Iscariot to be a disciple and an apostle...trusted him with the purse as well...

[SantaFe]

Red Pill beat me to this topic. Saved me the trouble of putting all the names together with their ties to secret combos, agendas, etc. I'm sure this list will grow with time.

D&C 123:13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—
14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.
15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

What can I do to help? Pick an organization or person you would like me to focus on and I will save what I have off line in a file. I'm not that good at researching but I can collect and organise.
I think having organised files condensed down from the various posts will be an asset someday. Charts are good too. Flow charts, maps, and visuals of any kind are a plus.

[endlessQuestions]

This is a HUGE project. I've dipped my toe and started looking into digital tools we can use to build the "Mormon Aristocracy Family Tree", but it's honestly overwhelming. If there are people here who would be willing to help, I'd appreciate it.

The work isn't actually all that hard, it's just a LOT of research.

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

What can I do to help? Pick an organization or person you would like me to focus on and I will save what I have off line in a file. I'm not that good at researching but I can collect and organise.
I think having organised files condensed down from the various posts will be an asset someday. Charts are good too. Flow charts, maps, and visuals of any kind are a plus.

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

[SantaFe]

It has crossed my mind that there should be a record kept by several individuals of all the provable, sourced facts, misdeeds, alignments with communism, etc., for each GA or subordinate that we have questions about. Perhaps volunteers can sift through the chatter in the posts and record just the provable facts on specific individuals in order to organise the info that has been collected here. Basically a file on each person that seems to have strayed from Christ's teachings and original intent for His church. The volunteer could be the fact keeper for just his assigned or selected person. I think it would make it easier to get a clearer picture of the person being researched if it was all in one file. As it stands right now, a person has to read through all of the posts in a search to get to the facts, provable facts. I would volunteer for that. Organizing what is already in the forum on at least one person.

Tonight I had this idea, which keeps us from focusing on the people, and instead focusing on the organizations that we know aren't aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What if we did a diagram like the one here:

viewtopic.php?t=69345

And did organizations like University of Utah, BYU, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, UN<whateveralphabetsoupcomeshere> blah, blah, blah, and then just added names to those groups?

That way it's fact based, documented, and not attacking any individuals, which iWriteStuff pointed out tonight is kind of a forum rule.

Thoughts?

With my research on the "Apostle or Aristocrat" thread I feel like I could probably put together a starting infographic with the major organizations we could start with.

We could then have a reference thread where, for those interested, if you come across information you think is relevant, you post it to that thread, and a volunteer or group of volunteers adds the information to the graphic.

What can I do to help? Pick an organization or person you would like me to focus on and I will save what I have off line in a file. I'm not that good at researching but I can collect and organise.
I think having organised files condensed down from the various posts will be an asset someday. Charts are good too. Flow charts, maps, and visuals of any kind are a plus.

I'd say the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number of these people who are affiliated with the University of Utah.

If we were to start with a "what prominent Church leaders, politicians, and businessmen have been affiliated with the University of Utah as a student or administrator since 1905", that would be a pretty incredible start.

Thank you. I will see what I can find. I will be down for a few days though due to surgery. I'll be in touch later.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

The top two qualifications for advancement is successful/moneyed and educated. The last qualification is being a yes man and the ability to parrot the corporate mantra in everything you do.

I find it interesting is that the top two qualifications are the two categories consistently condemned in the scriptures: the learned and the rich. Whatever happened to the impoverished uneducated farm boys?

[HVDC]

The question I have is who is recommending people like this for advancement in the Church?

They are essentially recommending themselves as they signal to likeminded others their availability to be an effective tool through accrued credentials, business (church included) and/or public sector acceptance and advancement, and most importantly, establishing connections into the "right" circles or in some cases simply being connected by birth.

This process is like a funnel and I believe much of it is on autopilot through years of conditioning and now having an established feedback loop of likeminded individuals in the "right" places to ensure an efficient perpetuation of the system.

In direct response to your question, I think we'd be surprised by how many of these recommendations come from outside the Church.

Elder Brent Nielsen of the Presidency of the Seventy did an interview a year ago, and he stated that when the Seventies visit an area they always take time to visit personally with men there that are possibilities for filling upcoming 70s positions. He would probably say they are seeking revelation, but it seems they are looking for like-minded replacements.

Yup.

A stake presidency re-organization goes very much the same way. Typically today, the area authority will meet with the high counselors and ask for recommendations/names for him to follow-up on. While on one hand, they may very well be seeking inspiration, on the other, they are choosing from candidates that were generally selected based upon a set of qualifications that were also used to select them, or in some cases, preclude others. Feedback loop.

(As an aside, the last stake presidency re-org I was privy on, the high counselors were all instructed by the outgoing president to make sure they were "clean-shaven, hair groomed according to missionary standards and suits pressed" before meeting with the visiting authority. I know on its face, this is benign, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of something my boss at work would tell me when their bosses (the board of directors) would visit. Didn't want to risk anything negatively reflecting on their professional aspirations.)

Facial hair.

Cloak of invisibility.

Doubles as a shallowness detector.

But flattery.

Gets you everywhere.

In the church.

But not of the church.

Words to live by.

Interesting times indeed.

Sir H

[Fight for the right]

It is the same Church you and I grew up in. It's Jesus Christ's Church. Some men have defiled it and some in the past have made it great. Regardless it is still Christ's Church. You know what you know to be true, stick with it. The Priesthood is still there and the authority to to preform ordinances is still there. Don't jump ship as others have done because of misdeeds of some men in leadership positions. Christ is coming again soon. It is known that the first thing He'll do is clean house in his Church.

Is it Christ's church when they teach doctrines that directly contradict Christ's teachings?

Hi Watchman. The power of the Holy Spirit. When a man speaks by that power i will follow him. I don't feel the manifestations when any of the current leaders speak. That doesn't mean that Christ's Church doesn't exist any longer.It means the current leadership is failling. I have spoken out very much against the jab poison right from the beginning and let it be known to my fellow church members. I know the current leadership are trying to make Christ's Church a friend of the world which is an enemy of God. I will not follow their council. I have a testimony of the things that I have been taught in my 27 years as I am a 68 year old convert. I teach in Elders quorum and testify of what I KNOW to be true. I will not leave Jesus Christ's Church. Is that what he would want me to do or would he want me to fight for what is right. Watchman maybe some day a man full of the spirit of Christ will take over the leadership. Will you come back.