What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

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HVDC
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by HVDC »

Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 5:05 pm You can find the form easily by typing "seminary registration form" into your search engine of choice.

It's been 1.5 years since went through this so-called process. I remember objecting to LDSCo reserving the right to capture my sons image, likeness, voice etc and retain it forever and use it for any purpose they might see fit. I objected to the monitoring of my sons communications, allowing church reps (not confined to seminary) to record any interaction with my son. Toward the end of the document the registration form was framed as an irrevocable contract with LDSCo that they could alter at any time to suit their purpose. I also had to agree that SLC would be the venue for any legal action that might ever occur between the signers of the document. It was very one sided (thank you kirton / mcconkie) legalistic "agreement" that I venture to bet not 5 in 100 parents read before they sign.

There were a couple of other issues I had with it, but I cannot recall them now. There allegedly was a process to go through if you had issues with the form - the church was non responsive, so the process was futile. I guess having the form subservienty signed ("bow your head and sign here") is more important ţo SLC than having my son in seminary...
He's better off.

And so are you.

Sir H

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Light Seeker wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:26 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 10:30 am For me, LDS Seminary was an ok experience. I can now see how heavy doses of conditioning were used, but we were none-the-wiser back then. A friend of mine (UT) recently received a photo from her child about a slide the teacher flashed up on the screen. It said the following:

——
PRINCIPLE:
We cannot fully accept and come unto Christ unless we accept the teachings of his prophets.

——

I'm not going to say anything more. Some of you think that all I do is post "negative" things... so I'll let you decide if this is an appropriate doctrine to be indoctrinating (sorry "teaching") the rising generation of children. What is the appropriate doctrine... I mean, if you disagree that is.

What does #HearHim really mean.....? Hmmm....
It never ceases to amaze me that the opposite sides of the camp can’t see/ won’t see another side .

I have now been in here long enough to be pretty sure who will jump in here and say you are looking too far into things . Pointing out a problem that isn’t really a problem.

I don’t like it nor trust it . I also do not see me changing my mind .
Conditioning from the time you are in diapers, to mixing truths like Joseph, the restoration, and the BoM, make it really difficult to detect latter deception and apostasy. We’ve become more interested/engaged with “heart sell” than doctrine from the Lord in the scriptures.

Light Seeker
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Light Seeker »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:31 pm
Light Seeker wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:26 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 10:30 am For me, LDS Seminary was an ok experience. I can now see how heavy doses of conditioning were used, but we were none-the-wiser back then. A friend of mine (UT) recently received a photo from her child about a slide the teacher flashed up on the screen. It said the following:

——
PRINCIPLE:
We cannot fully accept and come unto Christ unless we accept the teachings of his prophets.

——

I'm not going to say anything more. Some of you think that all I do is post "negative" things... so I'll let you decide if this is an appropriate doctrine to be indoctrinating (sorry "teaching") the rising generation of children. What is the appropriate doctrine... I mean, if you disagree that is.

What does #HearHim really mean.....? Hmmm....
It never ceases to amaze me that the opposite sides of the camp can’t see/ won’t see another side .

I have now been in here long enough to be pretty sure who will jump in here and say you are looking too far into things . Pointing out a problem that isn’t really a problem.

I don’t like it nor trust it . I also do not see me changing my mind .
Conditioning from the time you are in diapers, to mixing truths like Joseph, the restoration, and the BoM, make it really difficult to detect latter deception and apostasy. We’ve become more interested/engaged with “heart sell” than doctrine from the Lord in the scriptures.
I was there . I get it .

I remember telling a son “ I don’t understand that and I don’t think that makes sense .” Just stay faithful .

I look back in disgust at myself…

Light Seeker
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Light Seeker »

HVDC wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:30 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 5:05 pm You can find the form easily by typing "seminary registration form" into your search engine of choice.

It's been 1.5 years since went through this so-called process. I remember objecting to LDSCo reserving the right to capture my sons image, likeness, voice etc and retain it forever and use it for any purpose they might see fit. I objected to the monitoring of my sons communications, allowing church reps (not confined to seminary) to record any interaction with my son. Toward the end of the document the registration form was framed as an irrevocable contract with LDSCo that they could alter at any time to suit their purpose. I also had to agree that SLC would be the venue for any legal action that might ever occur between the signers of the document. It was very one sided (thank you kirton / mcconkie) legalistic "agreement" that I venture to bet not 5 in 100 parents read before they sign.

There were a couple of other issues I had with it, but I cannot recall them now. There allegedly was a process to go through if you had issues with the form - the church was non responsive, so the process was futile. I guess having the form subservienty signed ("bow your head and sign here") is more important ţo SLC than having my son in seminary...
He's better off.

And so are you.

Sir H
Agreed .

I would also never advise my children to serve a mission currently. That kills me . Of my oldest children 3 served missions.

I am now teaching the youngest 2 the things that are discussed in this forum. I want them to be better than I was and what I taught the older ones .

HVDC
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by HVDC »

Light Seeker wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:55 pm
HVDC wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:30 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 5:05 pm You can find the form easily by typing "seminary registration form" into your search engine of choice.

It's been 1.5 years since went through this so-called process. I remember objecting to LDSCo reserving the right to capture my sons image, likeness, voice etc and retain it forever and use it for any purpose they might see fit. I objected to the monitoring of my sons communications, allowing church reps (not confined to seminary) to record any interaction with my son. Toward the end of the document the registration form was framed as an irrevocable contract with LDSCo that they could alter at any time to suit their purpose. I also had to agree that SLC would be the venue for any legal action that might ever occur between the signers of the document. It was very one sided (thank you kirton / mcconkie) legalistic "agreement" that I venture to bet not 5 in 100 parents read before they sign.

There were a couple of other issues I had with it, but I cannot recall them now. There allegedly was a process to go through if you had issues with the form - the church was non responsive, so the process was futile. I guess having the form subservienty signed ("bow your head and sign here") is more important ţo SLC than having my son in seminary...
He's better off.

And so are you.

Sir H
Agreed .

I would also never advise my children to serve a mission currently. That kills me . Of my oldest children 3 served missions.

I am now teaching the youngest 2 the things that are discussed in this forum. I want them to be better than I was and what I taught the older ones .
Had a bunch.

Wide spread.

Generally taught the same basic things to all of them.

But the youngest set received a much more radical interpretation of current church events.

Missions were always optional.

But now.

More not go, than go.

Sir H

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Light Seeker wrote: January 24th, 2023, 7:55 pm
I am now teaching the youngest 2 the things that are discussed in this forum. I want them to be better than I was and what I taught the older ones .
Have you discussed your awakening with your older children? If so, how have that taken to this new perspective?

Light Seeker
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Light Seeker »

Of the older five 3 are still active and were married in the temple . They are in the quandary of young relationships where questioning the narrative is heretical to a new spouse . So you tow the party line . I really believe that is one of the insidious designs of the temple . It’s designed so you can’t question anything because speaking ill of the Lord’s anointed will damn you . Then a new spouse believes you lied to them and they married you under false pretenses. The addition of children locks you in even deeper . The alternative is often divorce and broken families.

Ironically I was divorced nearly 20 years ago because my ex wife didn’t want me anymore and left the church for other pastures.

I have been remarried/ sealed for 18 years to my best friend . A true disciple of Jesus Christ. We had 2 children together. 3 years ago we stopped having a relationship with my older children because they tried to sabotage my marriage and the psyches of my youngest ones. I took a stand and currently have no relationship with the older ones .

My wife and I study all the time together. I started having concerns with the direction the church was headed and started asking her questions. By the way she is the most incredible scriptorian I know. We studied governments and history together and she started seeing patterns between the deep state in America , worldwide and the the church . She went from praying for my soul to seeing the awfulness of our situation and the usurpation by the gadiantons, Kingmen and the Order of Nehors.

My only focus now is my wife , our 2 youngest and doing what the Lord wants in discovering the works of darkness .

I hope that wasn’t too much information but I try to be intellectually honest . Maybe there was something of value in there that answered your question .

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Light Seeker wrote: January 24th, 2023, 9:10 pm Of the older five 3 are still active and were married in the temple . They are in the quandary of young relationships where questioning the narrative is heretical to a new spouse . So you tow the party line . I really believe that is one of the insidious designs of the temple . It’s designed so you can’t question anything because speaking ill of the Lord’s anointed will damn you . Then a new spouse believes you lied to them and they married you under false pretenses. The addition of children locks you in even deeper . The alternative is often divorce and broken families.

Ironically I was divorced nearly 20 years ago because my ex wife didn’t want me anymore and left the church for other pastures.

I have been remarried/ sealed for 18 years to my best friend . A true disciple of Jesus Christ. We had 2 children together. 3 years ago we stopped having a relationship with my older children because they tried to sabotage my marriage and the psyches of my youngest ones. I took a stand and currently have no relationship with the older ones .

My wife and I study all the time together. I started having concerns with the direction the church was headed and started asking her questions. By the way she is the most incredible scriptorian I know. We studied governments and history together and she started seeing patterns between the deep state in America , worldwide and the the church . She went from praying for my soul to seeing the awfulness of our situation and the usurpation by the gadiantons, Kingmen and the Order of Nehors.

My only focus now is my wife , our 2 youngest and doing what the Lord wants in discovering the works of darkness .

I hope that wasn’t too much information but I try to be intellectually honest . Maybe there was something of value in there that answered your question .
Thanks for sharing that. We each have a story that has an impact on others. The insights about the temple were quite insightful. I know there is truth, but when you shift just a few things, it become a completely different animal.

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Theveilofforgetting
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Theveilofforgetting »

I was asked to teach seminary but just didn't feel right about it. My sons are not enrolled in Seminary. I really appreciated my time in Seminary (in the early 90s). We had an amazing teacher and I don't remember any indoctrination as such. It was very scriptural.

Not sure if anyone has noticed the missionaries focussing on things outside the discussions. They didn't teach my younger sons about the word of wisdom or law of chastity (my older son did get those, I remember how embarrassed they were talking about the law of chastity). They have really pushed the idea of obedience, following the leaders (prophets and local leaders) and the commandments as well as the laws of the land.

I'm not sure what to think. I'm biased because I struggle with obedience, I really need to understand and not just obey to obey. My 17yo said to me that following the prophets is just like following God which is not true to me. They are still men and I can't trust in man like I do Our Heavenly Father.

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 10:30 am For me, LDS Seminary was an ok experience. I can now see how heavy doses of conditioning were used, but we were none-the-wiser back then. A friend of mine (UT) recently received a photo from her child about a slide the teacher flashed up on the screen. It said the following:

——
PRINCIPLE:
We cannot fully accept and come unto Christ unless we accept the teachings of his prophets.

——

I'm not going to say anything more. Some of you think that all I do is post "negative" things... so I'll let you decide if this is an appropriate doctrine to be indoctrinating (sorry "teaching") the rising generation of children. What is the appropriate doctrine... I mean, if you disagree that is.

What does #HearHim really mean.....? Hmmm....
Brigham Young said,

There are those among this people who are influenced, controlled, and biased in their thoughts, actions, and feelings by some other individual or family, on whom they place their dependence for spiritual and temporal instruction, and for salvation in the end. These persons do not depend upon themselves for salvation, but upon another of their poor, weak, fellow mortals. “I do not depend upon any inherent goodness of my own,” say they, “to introduce me into the kingdom of glory, but I depend upon you, brother Joseph, upon you, brother Brigham, upon you, brother Heber, or upon you, brother James; I believe your judgment is superior to mine, and consequently I let you judge for me; your spirit is better than mine, therefore you can do good for me; I will submit myself wholly to you, and place in you all my confidence for life and salvation; where you go I will go, and where you tarry there I will stay; expecting that you will introduce me through the gates into the heavenly Jerusalem....

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child.

Journal of Discourses, 1:312

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: January 25th, 2023, 12:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 10:30 am For me, LDS Seminary was an ok experience. I can now see how heavy doses of conditioning were used, but we were none-the-wiser back then. A friend of mine (UT) recently received a photo from her child about a slide the teacher flashed up on the screen. It said the following:

——
PRINCIPLE:
We cannot fully accept and come unto Christ unless we accept the teachings of his prophets.

——

I'm not going to say anything more. Some of you think that all I do is post "negative" things... so I'll let you decide if this is an appropriate doctrine to be indoctrinating (sorry "teaching") the rising generation of children. What is the appropriate doctrine... I mean, if you disagree that is.

What does #HearHim really mean.....? Hmmm....
Brigham Young said,

There are those among this people who are influenced, controlled, and biased in their thoughts, actions, and feelings by some other individual or family, on whom they place their dependence for spiritual and temporal instruction, and for salvation in the end. These persons do not depend upon themselves for salvation, but upon another of their poor, weak, fellow mortals. “I do not depend upon any inherent goodness of my own,” say they, “to introduce me into the kingdom of glory, but I depend upon you, brother Joseph, upon you, brother Brigham, upon you, brother Heber, or upon you, brother James; I believe your judgment is superior to mine, and consequently I let you judge for me; your spirit is better than mine, therefore you can do good for me; I will submit myself wholly to you, and place in you all my confidence for life and salvation; where you go I will go, and where you tarry there I will stay; expecting that you will introduce me through the gates into the heavenly Jerusalem....

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child.

Journal of Discourses, 1:312
I'm about as impressed with anything Brigham said as I am with reading the collected wisdom of King Noah, Stalin, Che, or Mao. Sure, a stopped clock can be right once a day too, but I suspect strongly this was simply a squirm to avoid responsibility for the abuses he was heaping upon those who followed him. On the one hand it's 'show your real faith by following the prophet, no matter what nonsensical thing he tells you to do', then when there's inevitable catastrophe, the narrative switches to 'what, you followed the prophet? It's your own damn fault for putting your trust in a fallible man, the problem here is not me and how I squashed you, but you in that God doesn't like you much since you trusted me too much'. :) Brigham is especially guilty of this constant back and forth gaslighting, but that's only what we would expect from a sadistic con artist like him.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: January 25th, 2023, 12:00 am Brigham Young said,

There are those among this people who are influenced, controlled, and biased in their thoughts, actions, and feelings by some other individual or family, on whom they place their dependence for spiritual and temporal instruction, and for salvation in the end. These persons do not depend upon themselves for salvation, but upon another of their poor, weak, fellow mortals. “I do not depend upon any inherent goodness of my own,” say they, “to introduce me into the kingdom of glory, but I depend upon you, brother Joseph, upon you, brother Brigham, upon you, brother Heber, or upon you, brother James; I believe your judgment is superior to mine, and consequently I let you judge for me; your spirit is better than mine, therefore you can do good for me; I will submit myself wholly to you, and place in you all my confidence for life and salvation; where you go I will go, and where you tarry there I will stay; expecting that you will introduce me through the gates into the heavenly Jerusalem....

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child.

Journal of Discourses, 1:312
I hope you are aware of what Brigham also said. He speaks with a forked tongue, a true politician:

Feb. 23, 1862 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9:289

“The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so.”

(NOTE: this puppy has been repeated all throughout church history)

Aug. 31, 1873 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 16th Volume, p. 161, reported by George Q. Cannon)

"If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason."

———

BTW, according to JST Mark 9, “doing your duty” means that you may need to “pluck out” the PSRs. What Brigham taught was a distortion of truth.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

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Obrien
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Obrien »

BigT wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:21 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:05 pm I cannot speak to the curriculum being presented in seminary these days. I can tell you that in order for my youngest to register I was required to sign a very burdensome, one sided contract with LDSCo. I would encourage all parents to read it.

My son was allowed to attend for 3 months while the stake seminary coordinator talked to SLC about the edits I made to the document. Apparently there was no deal to be made, and my son was told he could only attend if I signed the slip. He has not been back.

During the 3 months of his attendance, we talked about the lessons each day after class. Spiritual volleyball, word puzzles, and videos seemed to be the order of the day. There were also voluminous numbers of sugar laden treats each morning that were virtually a requirement to eat. Not much of substance there for the mind, spirit or body.
Now I’m interested in what the contract said…
Big T - I searched my sent box and found a copy of the document I was asked to sign. At the bottom right of the document is the following text, presumably to identify the version of the form:
"©2013, 2019 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. 2/15 PD50048392 000"

The form I found on the Church website last night is identified with the following text:
"© 2022 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Version:4/22 PD50048392"

The text of the documents is largely identical with the following exceptions:
1 - An entire section of the older document, entitled "Release to Use Image", has been removed from the newer document. I struck almost this entire section of the registration form I was asked to sign to enroll my son.
2 - Both documents contain a section entitled "Internet and Online Use Policy". The older document had language in Paragraph 2 that has been removed in the later version.

I would include the text of each document, but I do not need K/McC threatening me for copyright infringement by posting the documents. I will say I redacted at least SOMETHING in each section of the older document. Many of the items that caused me concern are still in the 2022 version. Some of the most egregious language was removed, however, with the removal of the "Release to Use Image" section.

jdt
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by jdt »

I can see where they are going with this, but it is not worded quite right. I prefer the Lectures of Faith:
We have now clearly set forth how it is, and how it was, that God became an object of faith for rational beings, and also upon what foundation the testimony was based, which excited the inquiry and diligent search of the ancient saints to seek after and obtain a knowledge of the glory of God. And we have seen that it was human testimony, and human testimony only, that excited this inquiry in the first instance in their minds — it was the credence they gave to the testimony of their fathers — this testimony having aroused their minds to inquire after the knowledge of God, the inquiry frequently terminated, indeed always terminated, when rightly pursued, in the most glorious discoveries and Eternal certainty.
I get that the LoF are a little wordy for a nice meme. But I think you can perhaps abbreviate it as such "Our journey to God always begins with the testimony of prophets, those who have already seen and know Him".
I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine whether those in the picture fit the definition of "those who have already seen and know Him".

In summary: the original quote seems to imply that prophets help you "fully come" implying that it is the last step, whereas the LoF indicate it is the first step.

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Obrien
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Obrien »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: January 25th, 2023, 12:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 24th, 2023, 10:30 am For me, LDS Seminary was an ok experience. I can now see how heavy doses of conditioning were used, but we were none-the-wiser back then. A friend of mine (UT) recently received a photo from her child about a slide the teacher flashed up on the screen. It said the following:

——
PRINCIPLE:
We cannot fully accept and come unto Christ unless we accept the teachings of his prophets.

——

I'm not going to say anything more. Some of you think that all I do is post "negative" things... so I'll let you decide if this is an appropriate doctrine to be indoctrinating (sorry "teaching") the rising generation of children. What is the appropriate doctrine... I mean, if you disagree that is.

What does #HearHim really mean.....? Hmmm....
Brigham Young said,

There are those among this people who are influenced, controlled, and biased in their thoughts, actions, and feelings by some other individual or family, on whom they place their dependence for spiritual and temporal instruction, and for salvation in the end. These persons do not depend upon themselves for salvation, but upon another of their poor, weak, fellow mortals. “I do not depend upon any inherent goodness of my own,” say they, “to introduce me into the kingdom of glory, but I depend upon you, brother Joseph, upon you, brother Brigham, upon you, brother Heber, or upon you, brother James; I believe your judgment is superior to mine, and consequently I let you judge for me; your spirit is better than mine, therefore you can do good for me; I will submit myself wholly to you, and place in you all my confidence for life and salvation; where you go I will go, and where you tarry there I will stay; expecting that you will introduce me through the gates into the heavenly Jerusalem....

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child.

Journal of Discourses, 1:312
OK... And If BY called you on a mission to settle some god-forsaken patch of desert and you objected because you used your own understanding to arrive at a different conclusion, you were cut off as an apostate. From BY's perspective HEADS I WIN - TAILS YOU LOSE.

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BigT
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by BigT »

Obrien wrote: January 25th, 2023, 8:58 am
BigT wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:21 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:05 pm I cannot speak to the curriculum being presented in seminary these days. I can tell you that in order for my youngest to register I was required to sign a very burdensome, one sided contract with LDSCo. I would encourage all parents to read it.

My son was allowed to attend for 3 months while the stake seminary coordinator talked to SLC about the edits I made to the document. Apparently there was no deal to be made, and my son was told he could only attend if I signed the slip. He has not been back.

During the 3 months of his attendance, we talked about the lessons each day after class. Spiritual volleyball, word puzzles, and videos seemed to be the order of the day. There were also voluminous numbers of sugar laden treats each morning that were virtually a requirement to eat. Not much of substance there for the mind, spirit or body.
Now I’m interested in what the contract said…
Big T - I searched my sent box and found a copy of the document I was asked to sign. At the bottom right of the document is the following text, presumably to identify the version of the form:
"©2013, 2019 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. 2/15 PD50048392 000"

The form I found on the Church website last night is identified with the following text:
"© 2022 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Version:4/22 PD50048392"

The text of the documents is largely identical with the following exceptions:
1 - An entire section of the older document, entitled "Release to Use Image", has been removed from the newer document. I struck almost this entire section of the registration form I was asked to sign to enroll my son.
2 - Both documents contain a section entitled "Internet and Online Use Policy". The older document had language in Paragraph 2 that has been removed in the later version.

I would include the text of each document, but I do not need K/McC threatening me for copyright infringement by posting the documents. I will say I redacted at least SOMETHING in each section of the older document. Many of the items that caused me concern are still in the 2022 version. Some of the most egregious language was removed, however, with the removal of the "Release to Use Image" section.
Thanks. I did search for the document as you suggested and found it. Found it offensive, actually.

onetruesteve
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by onetruesteve »

As stated previously, it boils down to when your profit is speaking as a profit. The only way to know, it’s by the gift of discernment. Clearly a lot of people on this forum do not have the gift of discernment, because there is so much disagreement. It is up to each of us to decide what the spirit is really saying. Logic is not conclusive. Negativity is seldom constructive.

onetruesteve
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by onetruesteve »

Dang it! I meant “prophet!”

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Obrien
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Obrien »

BigT wrote: January 25th, 2023, 12:22 pm
Obrien wrote: January 25th, 2023, 8:58 am
BigT wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:21 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 4:05 pm I cannot speak to the curriculum being presented in seminary these days. I can tell you that in order for my youngest to register I was required to sign a very burdensome, one sided contract with LDSCo. I would encourage all parents to read it.

My son was allowed to attend for 3 months while the stake seminary coordinator talked to SLC about the edits I made to the document. Apparently there was no deal to be made, and my son was told he could only attend if I signed the slip. He has not been back.

During the 3 months of his attendance, we talked about the lessons each day after class. Spiritual volleyball, word puzzles, and videos seemed to be the order of the day. There were also voluminous numbers of sugar laden treats each morning that were virtually a requirement to eat. Not much of substance there for the mind, spirit or body.
Now I’m interested in what the contract said…
Big T - I searched my sent box and found a copy of the document I was asked to sign. At the bottom right of the document is the following text, presumably to identify the version of the form:
"©2013, 2019 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. 2/15 PD50048392 000"

The form I found on the Church website last night is identified with the following text:
"© 2022 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Version:4/22 PD50048392"

The text of the documents is largely identical with the following exceptions:
1 - An entire section of the older document, entitled "Release to Use Image", has been removed from the newer document. I struck almost this entire section of the registration form I was asked to sign to enroll my son.
2 - Both documents contain a section entitled "Internet and Online Use Policy". The older document had language in Paragraph 2 that has been removed in the later version.

I would include the text of each document, but I do not need K/McC threatening me for copyright infringement by posting the documents. I will say I redacted at least SOMETHING in each section of the older document. Many of the items that caused me concern are still in the 2022 version. Some of the most egregious language was removed, however, with the removal of the "Release to Use Image" section.
Thanks. I did search for the document as you suggested and found it. Found it offensive, actually.
Thanks for the validation.

I asked around to several parents in my ward if they had read it before signing it. Not a single one of them had. These people are attorneys, doctors, executive officers in corporations etc. who surely read voluminous amounts of legally-binding agreements daily, but they did not feel the need to do so when dealing with a corporation that sells them (and their children) religion.

However, I remember being a blue pill TBM so I understand why they would not read it.

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BigT
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by BigT »

Obrien wrote: January 25th, 2023, 1:20 pm However, I remember being a blue pill TBM so I understand why they would not read it.
I don’t think I would have read it even 2 years ago. Certainly not when we were raising our kids, if there’d have been such a thing.

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Obrien
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Obrien »

BigT wrote: January 25th, 2023, 1:28 pm
Obrien wrote: January 25th, 2023, 1:20 pm However, I remember being a blue pill TBM so I understand why they would not read it.
I don’t think I would have read it even 2 years ago. Certainly not when we were raising our kids, if there’d have been such a thing.
It is amazing how quickly the tide can turn with respect to trusting LDSCo. Good luck in your awakening.

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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by HVDC »

onetruesteve wrote: January 25th, 2023, 1:04 pm Dang it! I meant “prophet!”
Or did you?

LOL

Sir H

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Silver Pie
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Silver Pie »

Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 5:05 pm You can find the form easily by typing "seminary registration form" into your search engine of choice.

It's been 1.5 years since went through this so-called process. I remember objecting to LDSCo reserving the right to capture my sons image, likeness, voice etc and retain it forever and use it for any purpose they might see fit. I objected to the monitoring of my sons communications, allowing church reps (not confined to seminary) to record any interaction with my son. Toward the end of the document the registration form was framed as an irrevocable contract with LDSCo that they could alter at any time to suit their purpose. I also had to agree that SLC would be the venue for any legal action that might ever occur between the signers of the document. It was very one sided (thank you kirton / mcconkie) legalistic "agreement" that I venture to bet not 5 in 100 parents read before they sign.

There were a couple of other issues I had with it, but I cannot recall them now. There allegedly was a process to go through if you had issues with the form - the church was non responsive, so the process was futile. I guess having the form subservienty signed ("bow your head and sign here") is more important ţo SLC than having my son in seminary...
Holy Cow! I didn't have to sign any kind of contract for any kid of mine that went to seminary. In fact, I don't think I had to sign anything at all.

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Obrien
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Obrien »

Silver Pie wrote: January 25th, 2023, 9:26 pm
Obrien wrote: January 24th, 2023, 5:05 pm You can find the form easily by typing "seminary registration form" into your search engine of choice.

It's been 1.5 years since went through this so-called process. I remember objecting to LDSCo reserving the right to capture my sons image, likeness, voice etc and retain it forever and use it for any purpose they might see fit. I objected to the monitoring of my sons communications, allowing church reps (not confined to seminary) to record any interaction with my son. Toward the end of the document the registration form was framed as an irrevocable contract with LDSCo that they could alter at any time to suit their purpose. I also had to agree that SLC would be the venue for any legal action that might ever occur between the signers of the document. It was very one sided (thank you kirton / mcconkie) legalistic "agreement" that I venture to bet not 5 in 100 parents read before they sign.

There were a couple of other issues I had with it, but I cannot recall them now. There allegedly was a process to go through if you had issues with the form - the church was non responsive, so the process was futile. I guess having the form subservienty signed ("bow your head and sign here") is more important ţo SLC than having my son in seminary...
Holy Cow! I didn't have to sign any kind of contract for any kid of mine that went to seminary. In fact, I don't think I had to sign anything at all.
The "contract" is not obvious - on its face the document is called a Registration Form. As always, the action is in the small print at the bottom of the page. FWIW, the older version was much emphatic about the perpetual nature of the agreement terms found in the Registration Form. I did notice that in the new document the church refers to "Church Privacy Notice" that dictates how they will process personal information. The Privacy Notice is an interesting read (or skim, actually) - I desire all to receive it.

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Silver Pie
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Re: What your kids are being taught in Seminary.

Post by Silver Pie »

Obrien wrote: January 26th, 2023, 7:52 am The "contract" is not obvious - on its face the document is called a Registration Form. As always, the action is in the small print at the bottom of the page. FWIW, the older version was much emphatic about the perpetual nature of the agreement terms found in the Registration Form. I did notice that in the new document the church refers to "Church Privacy Notice" that dictates how they will process personal information. The Privacy Notice is an interesting read (or skim, actually) - I desire all to receive it.
So, I could have signed some things away I didn't want to, apparently. Not good. :(

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