Poll: In the last 2 years how has your ward members faith in church leaders changed?

[blitzinstripes]

It's really hard to gauge for me because most people are still hesitant to talk openly about it. I voted 30% because that seems realistic to me. Add the fact that I really only attend about once a month lately. I just can't deal with any more than that right now.

[p8riot]

I cannot know what my ward members think today or what they thought 2 years ago. Almost all of those I speak to fully believe the leaders as always. All, I can say is we have less people in attendance now than two years ago. I'm not sure it is fair to say that is because of church leaders either local or in SLC as there are many things different since two years ago. But, I feel some or many have lost something, which must include not feeling it necessary to come to meetings any more.

Ditto. Only a few folks that I know of have issues with Corporation leadership. There are some who don't necessarily buy the vaxx/mask stuff but still seem to ascribe to the "FTP" stuff, at least publicly. Definitely fewer folks in church. Who knows why? But most of those left fully profess to FTP.

[Vernet]

I answered to the last option. I was talking to my 80+ year old parent recently and to my surprise they said they didn't like Russell Nelson and don't think he is a real prophet. He seems fake, they said. I have lost respect for the current group running the church into the wrong direction.

[Niemand]

I answered to the last option. I was talking to my 80+ year old parent recently and to my surprise they said they didn't like Russell Nelson and don't think he is a real prophet. He seems fake, they said. I have lost respect for the current group running the church into the wrong direction.

A lot of people are grumbling at the way he seems to be renaming every single thing he can for the sake of it. I saw a thread on this online and people were asking why it was necessary and how much it would cost.

Some Mobot said it was because it had been prayed about and considered beforehand.

But credit where credit is due. I do like one or two things Nelson has done. Encouraging home study even if it has not happened in reality. Saying that home teaching need not be done in person (this is more practical in some places and locations). Also cutting the block down to two hours. I don't have a problem with that either.

But then you have to balance that against the "War on Mormons", endorsing poison shots and the sheer egotism. Hinckley and Monson had some faults but they were not so self-obsessed.

[hedgehog]

This is why Joseph Smith must return to finish his work before the second coming. Not just the old polygamist splinter groups now. Its lots of us with serious and justified concerns about current leaders.

Maybe growing up inundated with Anti-Church propaganda taught me early that the Gospel is pure, but all leaders are flawed men and some are worse than average and that the Lord will not stop them. Like many here, I have share deep uneasiness about the repeating pattern that President Nelson has too much abdicated his role as Prophet and too much thinks of himself as Corporate Church Leader. Whatever he does, does not retroactively invalidate my own Priesthood ordination. As I have mentioned elsewhere, If you look at previous iterations of Israel, church, priesthood, etc establishment you will find that our cultural view of Prophets as head of church. is very flawed. The early Israel and early church as established by Christ spent years being torn apart and scattered from every direction. That we fail to understand what survived and in what form is why its happening to us again.

Anyway, wealthy Utah ward here. Above average amount of church themed BLM signs (luxury beliefs + virtue signaling + lack of real world experience is a heckuva drug). When Church reopened post covid, over half wore masks first week. 1/4 the second week. Very little since. Been some time since I have seen one.

Anti social so cant say on local opinions. Unfortunately I have an example of both extremes in my family. Where they truly believed anyone with the vax or without the vax would be dead by now. The truth slowly dripping out is about what I was expecting. Stories from the vocal antivaxxer, as far as most church people reacting to him, and especially leadership, is concerned the prophet is the only medical authority they want or need. Its not Fauci and CDC or subversive doubters have no pull. But a lot of these people aren't even at the realization stage yet that President Nelson is a person and people, even prophets, can be wrong about lots of things.

Unfortunately, I think I am projecting logic into illogical thoughts. The people most unwilling to accept that church leaders can be wrong and have consequences will be the most likely to flip to the opposite extreme when some sacred cow they do care about and understand is finally violated.

The sad part about all of this, is that as a fan of church history stories, it always seemed so weird how these people would come and be fervant Joseph believers and then overnight from one stupid issue flip to the opposite extreme. Never made sense before I saw this repeat so much in person over last 36 months.

These are perilous times that try mens souls.

[hedgehog]

I have never found Mormon Woke's anymore worth talking to then flat earthers, communists, or any other cultists. Those among us who understand Lucifers role in the war in heaven and still look straight at cultural marxism and fail to see him behind it, are not people I am going to spend my time arguing with. For lies and blindness are their drugs and alcohol. Social status, ego, or government money always seems to be the real god who commands their submission.

Low info types. ok. Those who frankly would be better suited to arguing sports teams than religious and political principles and history. I can work with them. Still, I have a lot of respect for those of you who do the Yeomans labor. The other side of the veil and even the millennium must be filled with tediously deprogramming us all from the lies and blood of this world. (some more than others)

[harakim]

My observation is that those who had issues with the vaxx push have made elaborate rationales to excuse the mistake.

My friend's wife didn't get the vaxx because she was afraid that if it hurt her, she wouldn't be able to forgive the prophet. (As if your progression depends on your feelings for him. Lifelong programming at work.)

Many have settled it in their minds that the prophet was just relying on his medical background or advice from other close medical-professional confidants.

NOBODY will explain why he used the official talking points in pushing the "proven safe and effective" bioweapon.

In the end, they all resolved to maintain their trust in the prophet, except for a scant few in Mormon splinter cells.

Maybe you should come at it from the opposite angle and talk about how true all the globalists are because they agree with the prophet. That might get some people to consider. If pertinent, bring some of their other ideas up as if they are good things. Make them want to prove you wrong.

[BeNotDeceived]

The Pious Fraud theory explains a lot.

[ransomme]

I’d imagine your average ward looks a bit like this forum - some disillusioned, others playing rabid defense, most folks with their fingers in their ears just trying to get their kids to primary so they can scroll Instagram in Sunday school.

The percentages of each are way different between here and the average congregation.

I would say most are blind. Most would dare say anything against the leaders. Most don't want to think about anything that is uncomfortable. Most will always go along to get along.

There are very few who will admit a loss of confidence, even to themselves. And fewer still who will say anything about it.

[ransomme]

How many take a Pascal's wager approach to the Church?

[Reluctant Watchman]

The precept I highlighted in red will single-handedly be the undoing of the church. Just hearing it breaks my heart so much knowing we have distorted God's word. I'm actually writing a condensed essay on that right now and the comparison to JST mark 9. Crazy stuff.

Here's that essay btw, finished it this morning: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

[Theveilofforgetting]

I've only been attending for a year after being inactive for over a decade. Now the ward has just been split. I don't know many members, at least not enough to have meaningful conversation.
Former bishop told us he didn't get vaccinated. Don't know anyone else's status.
When we first started attending last year, my son and I were the only ones unmasked. No one said anything to us about it.
There is definitely a push for us to follow our leaders, to not to say no to anything they ask. It's reiterated a lot in f&t meetings.

[Lemarque]

In my extended family, everyone has been taking everything that has happened as evidence of how great of a prophet we have. Including, and I am not making this up, "After the second day of fasting that president Nelson did, all of the public health officials who had previously said masks wouldn't work changed and said that masks do work. Now we have a way to end the pandemic!"

But as others on this thread have said, it's almost all confirmation bias. I personally haven't met anyone (besides myself) that has really changed their mind much. If they were part time Mormon before, they still are now. If they thought Nelson is a prophet before, they still do.

It kind of reminds me of Nephi when he exposed the true murderer of the chief judge. "And it came to pass that there arose a division among the people, insomuch that they divided hither and thither and went their ways, leaving Nephi alone, as he was standing in the midst of them"

[Dusty Wanderer]

The culture and our history was gutted and nothing of substance put in its place.

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"That is why the rise of management always marks the decline of culture. ...if management must reflect the corporate image in tasteless, trendy new buildings, down come the fine old pioneer monuments."
- 1983

[The Red Pill]

The precept I highlighted in red will single-handedly be the undoing of the church. Just hearing it breaks my heart so much knowing we have distorted God's word. I'm actually writing a condensed essay on that right now and the comparison to JST mark 9. Crazy stuff.

Here's that essay btw, finished it this morning: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

Reminds me of the document doctoring started by Brigham and Willard Richards shortly after Joseph and Hyrum were murdered...so as to keep Brigham's "new order of things" on narrative.

Or...the the more current "Saints" volumes...where fiction masquerades as history...to keep the Brighamite corporation moving along.

So much deception.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Reminds me of the document doctoring started by Brigham and Willard Richards shortly after Joseph and Hyrum were murdered...so as to keep Brigham's "new order of things" on narrative.

Or...the the more current "Saints" volumes...where fiction masquerades as history...to keep the Brighamite corporation moving along.

So much deception.

There are quite a few nuggets like this if you dig into the header descriptions and the footnotes. One of my other favorite pieces of commentary from the church is their footnote to Isaiah 56:9-12. I don't think we could get a better depiction of what is happening in the church today:

9 ¶ All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

Here's the kicker, read the footnote for verse 9: "Here begins a short rebuke to the wicked of the time (vv. 9–12)."

Haha, I was laughing the first time I read that. They completely deflected the harsh judgment passed upon them by Isaiah. Like, literally, in their own footnote they have fulfilled the prophecy of these verses.

[Pahoran]

I answered to the last option. I was talking to my 80+ year old parent recently and to my surprise they said they didn't like Russell Nelson and don't think he is a real prophet. He seems fake, they said. I have lost respect for the current group running the church into the wrong direction.

A lot of people are grumbling at the way he seems to be renaming every single thing he can for the sake of it. I saw a thread on this online and people were asking why it was necessary and how much it would cost.

Some Mobot said it was because it had been prayed about and considered beforehand.

But credit where credit is due. I do like one or two things Nelson has done. Encouraging home study even if it has not happened in reality. Saying that home teaching need not be done in person (this is more practical in some places and locations). Also cutting the block down to two hours. I don't have a problem with that either.

But then you have to balance that against the "War on Mormons", endorsing poison shots and the sheer egotism. Hinckley and Monson had some faults but they were not so self-obsessed.

I liked the whole church at home thing too, kind of like work from home; however now I find it suspicious the timing of him doing that. Was it because he had revelation from God that it was a good idea or was it a revelation from a fellow brotherhood of death member. And he was told he needed to get his members prepared to NOT fight against the idea of closing churches and temples for the first time ever?

[Pahoran]

I've only been attending for a year after being inactive for over a decade. Now the ward has just been split. I don't know many members, at least not enough to have meaningful conversation.
Former bishop told us he didn't get vaccinated. Don't know anyone else's status.
When we first started attending last year, my son and I were the only ones unmasked. No one said anything to us about it.
There is definitely a push for us to follow our leaders, to not to say no to anything they ask. It's reiterated a lot in f&t meetings.

Haha! What a time to get back to church! Right in the middle of all this crazy stuff. I salute you as a fellow unmasked member.