One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

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endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching

Post by endlessQuestions »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:26 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:03 pm Ok, looking into the Star Calendar again, and check this out:

https://johnpratt.com/items/docs/2016/star_cal.html

This is the "headline" for that article:

"Evidence is presented that the Lord is using the Star Calendar described herein to testify of his faithful servants. The witness of the Prophet Joseph Smith is provided in detail."

So clearly Pratt saw that the Star Calendar was critical as it related to Joseph Smith, Jr.

Another "hit" for Watcher.
Truly the intelligence of the Creator is astounding to behold. There are so many levels of heavenly testimony of his servants and their great works. Our solar system and its placement among the stars was carefully chosen by an all knowing Creator. Truly the heavens declare the glory of God!
Whatever else is going on, God speaks to us in our own language and according to our accepted reckoning of time as evidenced by the alignment of two separate and distinct timing patterns shown at march8miracle.org.

3*8**
Your claim is that it is Christ in the picture?

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Showing that important events in Joseph's life happened on "holy days" on the Star calendars:

"Although the exact date of the First Vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith was apparently not recorded, it has been proposed in my work that it occurred on the morning of Sun 26 Mar 1820. That date was indicated because it marked the first day of a 364-year era on the Enoch Calendar. Later it was discovered to have also started one of the ten periods of 728 years of Enoch's prophecy of Weeks.[11] Now two more stunning witnesses from the stars strongly confirm that date.


The First Vision on a day for heavenly visitations and for seers.
The proposed First Vision date was the day 15 Psc (Fishes) on the Star Calendar, which is the holy day equivalent to Passover in our era. The star which marks that day (gamma Peg) is located in the wing of the white flying horse Pegasus. In mythology, that is the horse which is always bringing heavenly messengers. It seems to represent an angel or other heavenly messengers. It is a perfect star to represent the visit of the Father and the Son (and many angels) to Joseph Smith on that day. This star date provides yet another confirmation of that proposed date for the First Vision.

This date provides a perfect example of how the Uniform Star Calendar can provide additional information about an event. The day of the First Vision on that calendar was that of the bright star Aldebaran, alpha Tau, the Seer, on the day 22 Tau. As already herein discussed, that star represents Joseph Smith, one of the greatest seers of all time.

How appropriate for the First Vision to have taken place on a day appropriate for heavenly visitations on one star calendar and also the very day of Joseph the Seer on the other!"

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Priestood restoration days appear to have happened on Star Calendar "holy days":

"There are three dates of various levels of priesthood having been restored which have been discussed and pinpointed in my articles. Those are the dates of the restoration of the priesthood of Aaron, the priesthood of elders, and the priesthood of high priests. Let's look at those three dates on the Star Calendar.

The date proposed in my work for the restoration of the Aaronic Priesthood in May 1829 falls on the Star Calendar date of 8 Tau, with the star being tau Per, the star at the head of the hero Perseus. That star is used to represent the entire constellation and is called "Hero" in my work. As reviewed above, the myth of Perseus seems to be describing the Prophet Joseph Smith and his receiving various gifts from divine messengers. That day was when the resurrected divine messenger John the Baptist bestowed the Aaronic priesthood on him. How appropriate for it to occur on a day representing Joseph Smith!

The proposed date of the restoration by Peter, James and John of the priesthood needed for the elders of the Church occurred just two weeks later on the day 22 Tau. As already discussed, that is the day of the star Seer (Aldebaran), which is the star best representing Joseph the Seer. Again, that event is explicitly mentioned in the myth where the Swan Women provide the eye for Perseus to use to see. The Swan (Cygnus) is a constellation representing Peter, so it appears that the three women sages represented Peter, James and John. Again, the day is a perfect fit!

The office of high priest in the Church, which requires a higher level of Melchizedek priesthood than does elder, was restored on the day 29 Tau (Sat 4 Jun 1831), which corresponds to the star beta Ori, Rigel, the brightest star in Orion. Orion symbolizes Adam and also Jesus Christ who have all the highest levels of priesthood. The day 29 Tau suggests a progression after 22 Tau, and indeed this was the day when elders were first ordained to be high priests.

Thus, all three dates of priesthood restorations fit a very simple pattern, with the first two occurring on days which represent the Prophet Joseph himself. It sure does appear to be according to precise clockwork."


#############

there's some more, but I think this is enough to establish why Watcher's days may have shown up as holy on the Star Calendar. It seems the Star Calendar may be closely tied to events of the restoration, particularly those surrounding Joseph and his mission.

I find this fascinating.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: One Who is Watching

Post by BeNotDeceived »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:29 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:26 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:03 pm Ok, looking into the Star Calendar again, and check this out:

https://johnpratt.com/items/docs/2016/star_cal.html

This is the "headline" for that article:

"Evidence is presented that the Lord is using the Star Calendar described herein to testify of his faithful servants. The witness of the Prophet Joseph Smith is provided in detail."

So clearly Pratt saw that the Star Calendar was critical as it related to Joseph Smith, Jr.

Another "hit" for Watcher.
Truly the intelligence of the Creator is astounding to behold. There are so many levels of heavenly testimony of his servants and their great works. Our solar system and its placement among the stars was carefully chosen by an all knowing Creator. Truly the heavens declare the glory of God!
Whatever else is going on, God speaks to us in our own language and according to our accepted reckoning of time as evidenced by the alignment of two separate and distinct timing patterns shown at march8miracle.org.

3*8**
Your claim is that it is Christ in the picture?
There is a light fixture that may have flared at that exact moment in time.

The conclusion of the message is 2010.

I refer to it as an ATI, because messages is what angels do. 8-)

He wasn’t exactly wearing a name badge, although that may have been helpful. :lol:

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Actually, one more is necessary.

This date that Pratt refers to is critical to Watcher's argument as well.

"he dedication of the Kirtland temple on Sun 27 Mar 1836 and the subsequent vision there a week later on Easter Sunday, 3 Apr 1836, have been the focus of several discussions in my articles because both events occurred on holy days on several calendars. Indeed, the latter event was the subject of my first article on sacred chronology back in 1985.[13] The reason was that it helped establish the first and most important historical anchor date of the chronology: the date of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

So here we have two researchers who, as far as I know, are totally independent of each other, but come to the same conclusion that the Kirtland temple dedication and following week are a lynchpin in the earth's temporal history.

An event which was hidden from the Church's view for years after it happened (D&C 110 didn't show up in our Standard Works for almost 20 years after it was first published).

Regarding a temple the corporation has no control over.

Okey, dokey.

Nothing to see here. :)

EDIT: The rest of the section on the Kirtland temple dates:

"One feature of the pair of dates has always been a puzzle to me. Being a week apart, they seemed as though they should be the first and last days of some sort of Passover celebration. Many events took place similar to the last week of the Savior's life, such as having the sacrament and the ordinance of the washing of the feet. Yet, those seven days did not correspond to any Passover week on any calendar known to me. Passover on both the Hebrew and Enoch calendars began on Sat 2 Apr 1836, not the previous week. That has remained a mystery until now.


Elijah returned on star days for fathers and the Church head.
The date of the dedication of the temple on the Star Calendar was 15 Psc, which corresponds to Passover on that calendar. It was already discussed above as the star day of the First Vision. The associated star is hereby named "Winged" in my work because its position is in the wings of the heavenly messenger flying horse Pegasus. It would be a day for angels to appear. And indeed, many angels were reported being seen on that amazing dedication day. A pillar of fire was seen to envelop the entire temple.

A week later there was an extremely important visitation in that temple. The Savior, Moses, Elias, and Elijah all appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. Important priesthood keys were restored. The most famous were the last restored by Elijah, who "revealed the priesthood" (JSH 1:38) to them. Elijah was commissioned to "plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers" (JSH 1:39). This mission of Elijah had everything to do with connecting fathers and children. It appears that what was restored was the power to seal the children to the fathers, especially into the covenant line of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph.

The day on which Elijah returned was 22 Psc, the Last Day of the week of the star Passover. It is also represented by a star in Pegasus.[14] The Greeks said it was located at the navel of the horse. The name of the star is Alpheratz which is from the Arabic for "Horse's Navel". That location of the star is near the reproductive area and may have everything to do with offspring. With that understanding, that star is a perfect one to have on the day on which Elijah, who ascended to heaven in a chariot of fire, returned to restore covenant power of the fathers and the authority to seal the children to their fathers. A possible name for this star in this context is "Sire". Figure 6 shows the positions of both the star in the wing and at the navel.


Fig. 7. The star at navel of Pegasus is also the head of Andromeda.
(Click to see rising.)
There is more. The star for this day is not only the navel of Pegasus but also head of Andromeda, the Princess bride of Perseus (see Figure 7). In the case of Perseus representing Joseph Smith and Andromeda representing the church he founded, that would probably mean that this star also represents Joseph Smith himself in the role of head of the latter-day church.[15]

Combining those two positions in different constellations of that star seems to imply that this was the day that the power to seal children to the fathers was bestowed upon the head of the Lord's Church. That seems amazing that a star shared by two constellations would have the meaning of both of them be so relevant on the very day that Elijah returned with that very mission on the very day of that very star!"

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

I'm not going to bore everyone with a full review of the Star Calendar, but if anyone comes along and is interested, here's a link that will take you to a list of everything John did regarding this calendar:

https://johnpratt.com/search.html?zoom_ ... oom_sort=0

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Wondering Wendy »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:14 pm Watcher has a whole different chapter about 7 servants, and here's Pratt alluding to something along the same lines:

"In my earlier articles, evidence was presented which compelled me to propose that the Prophet Joseph Smith should be included in the list of the seven chief holy angels of God"

I want to point out again that I don't think Watcher and Pratt knew anything about each other.

I would consider this two independent streams of evidence, so correlations like this are rather fascinating.
Watcher was aware of John Pratt and read his blog. They also corresponded.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... n+Pratt%22

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Wondering Wendy »

CaptainM wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:01 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 2:03 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:21 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 12:32 pm Taylor Drake and Watcher are 2 different people. Watcher has never used his real name. I listened to the Iron Rod Podcast back in the beginning when all 3 men interacted with each other: Watcher, Searcher, and MD. They are definitely different people.

I am interested in the calendars and have been following many Christian researchers who give their own ideas. Looking forward to what you might find. :D
If you read "Solving The Prophet Puzzle" by One Who Is Watching and "Joseph in the Gap" by Taylor Drake, I think it would be impossible to argue they're not the same person.

Unless I've completely missed the boat, and Drake extensively quotes Watcher, without using quotation marks.

For example, in both books, the authors talk about their 5 step journey of "Losing Their Innocence" and refer to their personal relationship with Claire Middlemiss as a key relationship.

Again, I could be wrong.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not.
Iron Rod Podcast 001

Searcher = Taylor Drake
MD (Measuring Doctrine) = Chris Hubbel
Watcher = still anon

They are 3 different people. :)
Chris Hubbard (moved from AZ to UT)
Thanks, I wrote it down from (bad) memory. LOL

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:42 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:14 pm Watcher has a whole different chapter about 7 servants, and here's Pratt alluding to something along the same lines:

"In my earlier articles, evidence was presented which compelled me to propose that the Prophet Joseph Smith should be included in the list of the seven chief holy angels of God"

I want to point out again that I don't think Watcher and Pratt knew anything about each other.

I would consider this two independent streams of evidence, so correlations like this are rather fascinating.
Watcher was aware of John Pratt and read his blog. They also corresponded.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... n+Pratt%22
You're my new best friend, Wendy!

What else can you teach me about this?

I'm all ears.

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Wondering Wendy »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:47 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:42 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:14 pm Watcher has a whole different chapter about 7 servants, and here's Pratt alluding to something along the same lines:

"In my earlier articles, evidence was presented which compelled me to propose that the Prophet Joseph Smith should be included in the list of the seven chief holy angels of God"

I want to point out again that I don't think Watcher and Pratt knew anything about each other.

I would consider this two independent streams of evidence, so correlations like this are rather fascinating.
Watcher was aware of John Pratt and read his blog. They also corresponded.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... n+Pratt%22
You're my new best friend, Wendy!

What else can you teach me about this?

I'm all ears.
LOL I just remembered that because I read Watcher's blog for years. Watcher talked about Pratt several times, later on about the whole Mauricio Berger thing and his gold plates, where Pratt had been an eye witness of the plates. I just did a quick name search and posted it, is all. :)

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:54 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:47 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:42 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 3:14 pm Watcher has a whole different chapter about 7 servants, and here's Pratt alluding to something along the same lines:

"In my earlier articles, evidence was presented which compelled me to propose that the Prophet Joseph Smith should be included in the list of the seven chief holy angels of God"

I want to point out again that I don't think Watcher and Pratt knew anything about each other.

I would consider this two independent streams of evidence, so correlations like this are rather fascinating.
Watcher was aware of John Pratt and read his blog. They also corresponded.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... n+Pratt%22
You're my new best friend, Wendy!

What else can you teach me about this?

I'm all ears.
LOL I just remembered that because I read Watcher's blog for years. Watcher talked about Pratt several times, later on about the whole Mauricio Berger thing and his gold plates, where Pratt had been an eye witness of the plates. I just did a quick name search and posted it, is all. :)
I listened to the podcase, and Watcher seemed to be highly skeptical of the Sealed Book movement.

I went and worshiped with them. Wonderful people.

Can you tell me more about what conclusions Watcher came to regarding that whole thing?

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Wondering Wendy »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:58 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:54 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:47 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:42 pm

Watcher was aware of John Pratt and read his blog. They also corresponded.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... n+Pratt%22
You're my new best friend, Wendy!

What else can you teach me about this?

I'm all ears.
LOL I just remembered that because I read Watcher's blog for years. Watcher talked about Pratt several times, later on about the whole Mauricio Berger thing and his gold plates, where Pratt had been an eye witness of the plates. I just did a quick name search and posted it, is all. :)
I listened to the podcase, and Watcher seemed to be highly skeptical of the Sealed Book movement.

I went and worshiped with them. Wonderful people.

Can you tell me more about what conclusions Watcher came to regarding that whole thing?
He rejects the claims of Berger based on his own understanding of scriptural prophecy. Also, there was evidence he presented that the plates had copied from one of Mark Hoffman's forgeries. Here's a quick search for Mauricio Berger on his site.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... +Berger%22

Anyway, his arguments are basically the scriptures say the seer who will translate the sealed portion comes forth in power; he believes this is Joseph, and so since no one has come forth in power yet, the claim has to be false.

I think this entry probably explains his position best.

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... t-records/

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Shawn Henry
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Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Shawn Henry »

Luke wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:48 pm Watcher has some brilliant stuff but he believes that Joseph was a fallen prophet.
He believes that he was an intercessory prophet just as Moses was. They both interceded on behalf of the saints and staved off judgement by having the sins of Israel placed upon them. The sins they both committed were actually the fault of those they were leading.

So there are actual fallen prophets and then there are intercessory prophets who only look like fallen prophets.

In all actuality, an intercessory prophet is a higher tier than a prophet, so in a way, he views Joseph higher than the lds people do.

logonbump
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Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by logonbump »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:14 pm
Luke wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:48 pm Watcher has some brilliant stuff but he believes that Joseph was a fallen prophet.
He believes that he was an intercessory prophet just as Moses was. They both interceded on behalf of the saints and staved off judgement by having the sins of Israel placed upon them. The sins they both committed were actually the fault of those they were leading.

So there are actual fallen prophets and then there are intercessory prophets who only look like fallen prophets.

In all actuality, an intercessory prophet is a higher tier than a prophet, so in a way, he views Joseph higher than the lds people do.
To complete that thought, I also learned from Watcher that Joseph took part in an intercessory offering like the Hebrews performed with two goats. One had Israel's sins heaped upon it and was sacrificed and another was driven into the wilderness.. or do I have that wrong?

Joseph seemingly at the end of his life didn't model an ideal leader. He may have willingly took upon himself the sins of his people or at least credit for their sins.
This act would precede his death if he was the intercessory offering- but which of the two rams was he if it was done in the type of the Hebrews' animal offering?

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Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by CaptainM »

logonbump wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:50 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:14 pm
Luke wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:48 pm Watcher has some brilliant stuff but he believes that Joseph was a fallen prophet.
He believes that he was an intercessory prophet just as Moses was. They both interceded on behalf of the saints and staved off judgement by having the sins of Israel placed upon them. The sins they both committed were actually the fault of those they were leading.

So there are actual fallen prophets and then there are intercessory prophets who only look like fallen prophets.

In all actuality, an intercessory prophet is a higher tier than a prophet, so in a way, he views Joseph higher than the lds people do.
To complete that thought, I also learned from Watcher that Joseph took part in an intercessory offering like the Hebrews performed with two goats. One had Israel's sins heaped upon it and was sacrificed and another was driven into the wilderness.. or do I have that wrong?

Joseph seemingly at the end of his life didn't model an ideal leader. He may have willingly took upon himself the sins of his people or at least credit for their sins.
This act would precede his death if he was the intercessory offering- but which of the two rams was he if it was done in the type of the Hebrews' animal offering?
Sidney Rigdon, the Lord’s Spokesman, was allowed to escape. Joseph and Sidney who hold the keys of the kingdom (D&C 90:2-3,6) shall return. Will the blind leaders in SLC, Independence, and other branches of the restoration knowingly allow them to lead the scattered saints (D&C 101:43-62; 103:21)?
Last edited by CaptainM on January 15th, 2023, 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

logonbump wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:50 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:14 pm
Luke wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:48 pm Watcher has some brilliant stuff but he believes that Joseph was a fallen prophet.
He believes that he was an intercessory prophet just as Moses was. They both interceded on behalf of the saints and staved off judgement by having the sins of Israel placed upon them. The sins they both committed were actually the fault of those they were leading.

So there are actual fallen prophets and then there are intercessory prophets who only look like fallen prophets.

In all actuality, an intercessory prophet is a higher tier than a prophet, so in a way, he views Joseph higher than the lds people do.
To complete that thought, I also learned from Watcher that Joseph took part in an intercessory offering like the Hebrews performed with two goats. One had Israel's sins heaped upon it and was sacrificed and another was driven into the wilderness.. or do I have that wrong?

Joseph seemingly at the end of his life didn't model an ideal leader. He may have willingly took upon himself the sins of his people or at least credit for their sins.
This act would precede his death if he was the intercessory offering- but which of the two rams was he if it was done in the type of the Hebrews' animal offering?
This scapegoat concept comes from the Eliason group, I believe.

Watcher is interesting. Not sure how I feel about all his conclusions at this point.

But he gives us a TON of data to work with, which I love.

I don't care much about Watcher the person.

Or Watcher the persona.

Or Pratt the person.

Or Pratt the persona.

Outside of my love for them as brothers.

But, they've both given us models, and data, and methodologies, that can be tested, and tried, and proven.

And they both clearly love the Lord, and believe it's important to LISTEN to Him.

And that's pretty awesome.

I wish they could have worked together more instead of trying to establish dominance.

I think the results would have been pretty impressive.

But I suppose that's what people were trying to tell me when I started my "Apostles and Aristocrats" thread, so I shan't throw the first stone.

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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

After reading a bit more about Watcher and having a short interaction with him, I found this, and think I will take him at his word, just as I did Denver Snuffer:

"The only parts of my posts and/or articles that should be taken seriously are the scriptures quoted from the holy, eternal and infallible word of God.

Everything else should be considered the personal opinion of a religious heretic."

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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by BeNotDeceived »

endlessQuestions wrote: January 15th, 2023, 2:24 pm After reading a bit more about Watcher and having a short interaction with him, I found this, and think I will take him at his word, just as I did Denver Snuffer:

"The only parts of my posts and/or articles that should be taken seriously are the scriptures quoted from the holy, eternal and infallible word of God.

Everything else should be considered the personal opinion of a religious heretic."
Is that the best you can do. :?:

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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

BeNotDeceived wrote: January 15th, 2023, 4:54 pm
endlessQuestions wrote: January 15th, 2023, 2:24 pm After reading a bit more about Watcher and having a short interaction with him, I found this, and think I will take him at his word, just as I did Denver Snuffer:

"The only parts of my posts and/or articles that should be taken seriously are the scriptures quoted from the holy, eternal and infallible word of God.

Everything else should be considered the personal opinion of a religious heretic."
Is that the best you can do. :?:
Yes.

I think it's a fine piece of advice from Watcher, and I respect him a great deal for putting it on his blog.

And I'm EXTREMELY grateful for all the work he's done in putting those scriptures in front of us in a way that we can do the hard work of verifying for ourselves what it all might mean.

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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by GeeR »

endlessQuestions here is a Youtube presentation by Taylor Drake and Chris Hubbard:
The Hidden History That Will Change Your Mormon Paradigm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpzaLNVnls&t=4s

This should give you a good idea of the personalities and spirituality of both men. I understand that they've had a falling out since, which is sad because I like them both. I think Taylor's strong suit is that he is good at condensing and making concise Chris Hubbard's long drawn out original research.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Shawn Henry »

GeeR wrote: January 16th, 2023, 9:41 am endlessQuestions here is a Youtube presentation by Taylor Drake and Chris Hubbard:
The Hidden History That Will Change Your Mormon Paradigm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpzaLNVnls&t=4s

This should give you a good idea of the personalities and spirituality of both men. I understand that they've had a falling out since, which is sad because I like them both. I think Taylor's strong suit is that he is good at condensing and making concise Chris Hubbard's long drawn out original research.
You're confusing Chirs with Watcher. Chris Hubbard or MD of the Measuring Doctrine blog has only recently come on the scene. Watcher is the one whose work has been around for 20 years or so. They both came across Watcher's work and simply parroted everything he has been saying.

Taylor Drake is good at condensing Watcher's material, but that doesn't change the fact that everything in his book is all Watcher's work. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is the reason for the rift between them. I wouldn't be happy with my work being plagiarized.

Watcher is a true student and teacher of the scriptures and knows and follows the signs of the times.

Taylor and Chris know the signs of the times well enough to get fully vaccinated, that's how much light is in those two clowns.

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CaptainM
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by CaptainM »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 16th, 2023, 12:07 pm
GeeR wrote: January 16th, 2023, 9:41 am endlessQuestions here is a Youtube presentation by Taylor Drake and Chris Hubbard:
The Hidden History That Will Change Your Mormon Paradigm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpzaLNVnls&t=4s

This should give you a good idea of the personalities and spirituality of both men. I understand that they've had a falling out since, which is sad because I like them both. I think Taylor's strong suit is that he is good at condensing and making concise Chris Hubbard's long drawn out original research.
You're confusing Chirs with Watcher. Chris Hubbard or MD of the Measuring Doctrine blog has only recently come on the scene. Watcher is the one whose work has been around for 20 years or so. They both came across Watcher's work and simply parroted everything he has been saying.

Taylor Drake is good at condensing Watcher's material, but that doesn't change the fact that everything in his book is all Watcher's work. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is the reason for the rift between them. I wouldn't be happy with my work being plagiarized.

Watcher is a true student and teacher of the scriptures and knows and follows the signs of the times.

Taylor and Chris know the signs of the times well enough to get fully vaccinated, that's how much light is in those two clowns.
Great synopsis Shawn. I get the feeling that Searcher and MD couldn't altogether handle some of the insights of Watcher, e.g., the death shots, RLDS, etc.

endlessQuestions
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Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by endlessQuestions »

Shawn Henry wrote: January 16th, 2023, 12:07 pm
GeeR wrote: January 16th, 2023, 9:41 am endlessQuestions here is a Youtube presentation by Taylor Drake and Chris Hubbard:
The Hidden History That Will Change Your Mormon Paradigm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpzaLNVnls&t=4s

This should give you a good idea of the personalities and spirituality of both men. I understand that they've had a falling out since, which is sad because I like them both. I think Taylor's strong suit is that he is good at condensing and making concise Chris Hubbard's long drawn out original research.
You're confusing Chirs with Watcher. Chris Hubbard or MD of the Measuring Doctrine blog has only recently come on the scene. Watcher is the one whose work has been around for 20 years or so. They both came across Watcher's work and simply parroted everything he has been saying.

Taylor Drake is good at condensing Watcher's material, but that doesn't change the fact that everything in his book is all Watcher's work. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is the reason for the rift between them. I wouldn't be happy with my work being plagiarized.

Watcher is a true student and teacher of the scriptures and knows and follows the signs of the times.

Taylor and Chris know the signs of the times well enough to get fully vaccinated, that's how much light is in those two clowns.
I would just say you're giving Watcher more credit than he's even asked for. It says right on his "About" page...

"The only parts of my posts and/or articles that should be taken seriously are the scriptures quoted from the holy, eternal and infallible word of God.

Everything else should be considered the personal opinion of a religious heretic."

I tend to take people at their word in these kinds of cases. It doesn't negate the amazing work he's done, but it also doesn't put him on a pedestal he doesn't deserve, and apparently, doesn't want to be put on.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Posts: 1411

Re: One Who is Watching, Taylor Drake, and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

CaptainM wrote: January 16th, 2023, 12:11 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: January 16th, 2023, 12:07 pm
GeeR wrote: January 16th, 2023, 9:41 am endlessQuestions here is a Youtube presentation by Taylor Drake and Chris Hubbard:
The Hidden History That Will Change Your Mormon Paradigm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpzaLNVnls&t=4s

This should give you a good idea of the personalities and spirituality of both men. I understand that they've had a falling out since, which is sad because I like them both. I think Taylor's strong suit is that he is good at condensing and making concise Chris Hubbard's long drawn out original research.
You're confusing Chirs with Watcher. Chris Hubbard or MD of the Measuring Doctrine blog has only recently come on the scene. Watcher is the one whose work has been around for 20 years or so. They both came across Watcher's work and simply parroted everything he has been saying.

Taylor Drake is good at condensing Watcher's material, but that doesn't change the fact that everything in his book is all Watcher's work. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is the reason for the rift between them. I wouldn't be happy with my work being plagiarized.

Watcher is a true student and teacher of the scriptures and knows and follows the signs of the times.

Taylor and Chris know the signs of the times well enough to get fully vaccinated, that's how much light is in those two clowns.
Great synopsis Shawn. I get the feeling that Searcher and MD couldn't altogether handle some of the insights of Watcher, e.g., the death shots, RLDS, etc.
What are some of his insights concerning RLDS that they would’ve had a hard time with? Or any of his insights concerning RLDS? I’ve read some of his stuff, but can’t say I’ve Come across those yet. Thanks.

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Dusty Wanderer
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Posts: 1411

Re: One Who is Watching (Taylor Drake) and John P. Pratt - a Proposed Study

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

CaptainM wrote: January 14th, 2023, 7:35 pm
logonbump wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:50 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: January 14th, 2023, 6:14 pm
Luke wrote: January 14th, 2023, 1:48 pm Watcher has some brilliant stuff but he believes that Joseph was a fallen prophet.
He believes that he was an intercessory prophet just as Moses was. They both interceded on behalf of the saints and staved off judgement by having the sins of Israel placed upon them. The sins they both committed were actually the fault of those they were leading.

So there are actual fallen prophets and then there are intercessory prophets who only look like fallen prophets.

In all actuality, an intercessory prophet is a higher tier than a prophet, so in a way, he views Joseph higher than the lds people do.
To complete that thought, I also learned from Watcher that Joseph took part in an intercessory offering like the Hebrews performed with two goats. One had Israel's sins heaped upon it and was sacrificed and another was driven into the wilderness.. or do I have that wrong?

Joseph seemingly at the end of his life didn't model an ideal leader. He may have willingly took upon himself the sins of his people or at least credit for their sins.
This act would precede his death if he was the intercessory offering- but which of the two rams was he if it was done in the type of the Hebrews' animal offering?
Sidney Rigdon, the Lord’s Spokesman, was allowed to escape. Joseph and Sidney who hold the keys of the kingdom (D&C 90:2-3,6) shall return. Will the blind leaders in SLC, Independence, and other branches of the restoration knowingly allow them to lead the scattered saints (D&C 101:43-62; 103:21)?
I’m familiar with the ancient scapegoat intercessory offering, but hadn’t heard about Joseph and Sydney performing a similar ceremony with the two of them. Do you have any material on this that you can point me to?

As for your comment here, it impacted me. As I imagined the remaining believers in the New Covenant, wherever they may be, united under a common banner, I was filled with hope. Wouldn’t that be something to be a part of. I’m still on the fence about the return of Sydney and Joseph to fill this role, probably don’t understand it well enough or something, but the reality of it would be quite moving.
Last edited by Dusty Wanderer on January 16th, 2023, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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